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Forum Post: Take that, Paul Ryan! Elizabeth Warren beats back Social Security plot

Posted 4 years ago on Dec. 15, 2013, 8 a.m. EST by GirlFriday (17435)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The Overton Window has shifted! At least in the case of Social Security.

The Overton Window — named for the late Joseph P. Overton of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy — is the frame through which acceptable options for public policy are viewed at any given time. Options that are outside of the frame (or “outside the box,” to use another metaphor) are deemed unworthy of consideration or mention by the bipartisan establishment, no matter how compelling those options may actually be. The Overton Window tends to be positioned by the owners and bureaucrats of the major media, who tend to share an elite consensus with politicians and the donors who fund them.

Until recently, in discussions of the future of Social Security the Overton Window was positioned to exclude any discussion of raising, rather than cutting, Social Security benefits. For the last generation, the range of permissible opinion with respect to the program — which most Americans depend on for nearly all of their income in old age — ranged from conservatives who wanted to abolish Social Security altogether, to press-anointed “progressives” and token Democrats who merely wanted to cut Social Security benefits. The option of maintaining scheduled Social Security benefits, and paying for them with higher taxes, was considered unworthy of discussion by the guardians of Overton Orthodoxy, both in the press and in the two major parties. As for expanding Social Security benefits — why, that’s crazy talk!

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[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 years ago

Political insiders thought we were crazy to fight back against Third Way after they attacked Elizabeth Warren and Social Security.

But thanks to you and others who joined this fight, we got Third Way's own co-chairs to denounce them.

And now, while delivering 125,000 signatures to Third Way executives directly, we got this huge admission.

SALON: Third Way senior vice president admits majority of think tank’s funding comes from Wall Street

We've unmasked the attacks on Elizabeth Warren.

Watch MSNBC's Rachel Maddow report on our victory. And join thousands of others who vow to continue fighting back for Elizabeth Warren's agenda against Wall Street attacks.

(Love our effective work? Want to help us be effective throughout 2014? Become a monthly donor here. It makes a big difference.)

Thanks for being a bold progressive.

-- Adam Green, PCCC co-founder

P.S. We were proud to partner with Social Security Works and the Center for Community Change on this week's delivery event. And with Democracy for America, Progressives United, Daily Kos, MoveOn, and others on this battle with Third Way.

Want to support our work? Ed Schultz called us "The top progressive group in the country"! And our tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. Chip in $3 here. Paid for by the Progressive Change Campaign Committee PAC (www.BoldProgressives.org) and not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. Contributions to the PCCC are not deductible as charitable contributions for federal income tax purposes.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

Right on.

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 3 years ago

Stand up for Medicare too!


Issat partisan?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 years ago

I love it when the "assholes" get properly slapped in the face with a 2x4 for a change.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 3 years ago
[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 3 years ago

"It’s a massive transfer of income from upper-income Americans to the retired." is a major complaint. Now the discussion about raising the minimum wage to $10.10/hr and $13.13/hr in New York City has become possible reality. Higher wages can boost amount of taxes paid. It is shown that the wealthy won't invest in raising the local standard of living. There should be a maximum wage cap to save the economy. Perhaps $2million/yr. Perhaps less.

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (2099) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 years ago

A wage cap of $2M is a good start. But the wealthy make more interest and capital gains than wages. A wealth cap of $5M would cover everything and gain a huge influx of capital that may be used by communities - of, by and for the people.

We must find a way to invest in the production of the things we need to live. ie: our own survival.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 3 years ago

Warren v Ryan on Social Security?

next round: W VA.


A measure of populism?

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 3 years ago
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

" It’s a massive transfer of income from upper-income Americans "

I think the non-greedy might look ( correctly ) at it as a move towards proper/healthy parity? Or as a move towards the NEEDED balancing of the scales. Or as just plain fair. Unfortunately the non-greedy do not appear to be in a position of power.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 3 years ago

Fight economic inequality/boost Social Security benefits!



[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 3 years ago

EXPAND Social Security!! Don't cut it.


We must correct the self destructive massive transfer of the countries wealth from the decent hard working people who created it to the greedy, unscrupulous, lazy, oligarchs who only take & never give back.

It's the only way to save the economy.

But don't worry, the natural function of our consumer economy dictates that the wealth then continues to be sucked/concentrated by the 'suppliers/businesses'.

But while we continue to squeeze workers (who create the wealth, remember) with low wages, low SS payments, predatory loan shark level interest debt etc, the "upper income Americans" who depend on consumer demand get very little.

I support some control of ceo pay, not sure of best way to achieve it, but this was an interesting piece.


[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 3 years ago

Is this a socialist agenda? Every American should be in favor of promoting the general Welfare, and securing the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity. The rich and the poor Americans should agree on this.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Is it Socialism when the people who do the most difficult,dangerous and/or dangerous work are well paid? Example:Emergency Room Physicians have a difficult and dangerous job,yet Physicians who suck the fat out of people's butts or write prescriptions for unneeded drugs make 10 times more money.To me,that's not right.Another example:Garbage Pick Up is a difficult,dangerous and absolutely essential job,yet people who work in Showrooms selling Luxury Cars make at least 10 times more.I really don't give a crap about people who sell Luxury Goods-their work is of no importance.I would soon be in Trouble without Garbage Pick Up,though.Without some kind of way for everyone to make their transactions,we will have serious problems.I am not really in favor of extracting the wealth out of the more well heeled Citizens in a Savage or Brutal way,but people who have so much wealth that they will never experience material Want should have to pay higher taxes-IMHO.Is that Socialism? I think we need a Transaction Tax on Wall Street and higher Corporate Taxes.I am personally deeply Anticapitalist,but I think Americans would prefer Capitalism with more regulations and reform of the Federal,State,and Local Tax Codes.I don't think such changes would turn America into a Socialist Country.We already have Corporate Socialism because Profits are Privatized while Risk & Losses are a burden to everyone.America subsidizes all of the largest and most profitable Corporate Entities. I am against QE.Is QE Socialism,IYO?

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 3 years ago

Can government arrive at a solution for the distribution of goods and services that is acceptable to everyone? Probably not. There are overachievers and underachievers. Should a professional basket ballplayer be paid more than $2 million per year? Should patent owners be paid more than athletes? Should a basketball team owner make more money from basketball than players on the team? How do you determine how much stuff is worth? People don't know, but it is likely they've paid too much for whatever it is.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

I think Americans are very Business Oriented and would not go in for a completely new economic concept.I am not that comfortable with forcing people to go along with Pointy-Headed Social Engineering.Americans do need more opportunities for education and employment.I think it is possible to make plenty of Doughs even if People come before Profit.Americans of all Kinds just Luv makin' That Dough and are not likely to change in that area-LOL


[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Who is to say who makes too much money? But it is quite obvious when there are those who are not paid enough - if that necessary amount needed to be made on the lowest paid job to have that individual able to live on it without having to look for outside aid ( public support ) - it should be obvious that the missing amount for that ( those ) worker (s) must come from off of the top end and so would regulate that top end pay downward to meet FULL sustainability ( livability ).

[-] 2 points by JackHall (413) 3 years ago

Is money a finite resource? The world economy is based on fiat money that depends on government to evaluate the value of currency.

It simply to say someone is making too much money when currency is based on a gold standard and people are making more money than there is gold to back it.

According to the World Gold Council website, an estimate has the total amount of mined gold from ancient times to the present, calculated at 158,000 tonnes.

If the estimates are correct and there has been 158,000 tones of gold recovered from “Mother Earth” (assuming 24 K purity) then that would translate into 5,079,817,925 troy oz. of the precious metal. Over 5 billion ounces of gold.


Gold cost about $1500/oz.


The total amount of mined gold is worth about $7 trillion.

The gold standard lasted until 1971 when President Nixon announced that the United States would no longer exchange dollars for gold. This ended the Bretton Woods system. Now the United States is on a system of fiat money, which is not tied to any other commodity. So these pieces of paper in your pocket are nothing but pieces of paper.

Money is essentially a good, so as such is ruled by the axioms of supply and demand. The value of any good is determined by its supply and demand and the supply and demand for other goods in the economy. A price for any good is the amount of money it takes to get that good. Inflation occurs when the price of goods increases; in other words when money becomes less valuable relative to those other goods. This can occur when:

1.The supply of money goes up. 2.The supply of other goods goes down. 3.Demand for money goes down. 4.Demand for other goods goes up.

The key cause of inflation is increases in the supply of money. Inflation can occur for other reasons. If a natural disaster destroyed stores but left banks intact, we’d expect to see an immediate rise in prices, as goods are now scarce relative to money. These kinds of situations are rare. For the most part inflation is caused when the money supply rises faster than the supply of other goods and services.

Money has value because people believe that they will be able to exchange their money for goods and services in the future. This belief will persist so long as people do not fear future inflation. To avoid inflation, the government must ensure that the money supply does not increase too quickly.

Fiat money has no limits except the faith that people put on its value.

The US economy is about $60 trillion. It can’t be backed by gold. Suppose everything has a price. You can’t tell how much the US economy is worth until it is liquidated. Since no country has $60 trillion in cold cash, someone is going to lose a lot of money.

There was a rumor circulating that the Rothschild Family had assets worth $500 trillion. That would mean they own the planet.

I am appalled at what the US dollar is worth. Does anyone remember when a pack of cigarettes cost less than $1? In Kentucky a pack cost $4.96. In Florida a pack cost $6.00. In Maine they cost $7.12. In New York a pack costs $14.50. Old timers can remember when a pack of cigarettes cost 35 cents.


Food prices are just as ridiculous. A candy bar costs over $1 today. When I was a child they cost under $50. Old timers can remember when they cost a nickel.

After the last mortgage crisis of 2008, some think the government lost control of value of money. Even before that there were strange indications such as the Pentagon lost track of $2 trillion in 2001,but the economy didn’t collapse.



[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 3 years ago

you are not making the case for the gold standard are you? that is a tool of the rich as the populists understood very well more than 100 yrs ago. yes we have big inflation over the last 150 years but also a tremendous increase in real wealth so inflation cannot be so bad. hyper inflation is ng but moderate inflation helps debtors (like homeowners - my mortgage goes down and the value of the house goes up) and redistributes wealth. deflation helps the wealthy and crushes those with debts as we just witnessed in the housing bust. here is alan watts on money and wealth (for a more detailed discussion look up stephanie kelton italy) - "Let me illustrate this point and, at the same time, explain the major obstacle to sane technological progress, by dwelling on the fundamental confusion between money and wealth, Remember the Great Depression of the Thirties? One day there was a flourishing consumer economy, with everyone on the up-and-up; and the next, unemployment, poverty, and bread lines, What happened? The physical resources of the country the brain, brawn, and raw materials were in no way depleted, but there was a sudden absence of money, a so-called financial slump.

Complex reasons for this kind of disaster can be elaborated at length by experts on banking and high finance who cannot see the forest for the trees, But it was just as if someone had come to work on building a house and, on the morning of the Depression, the boss had said, "Sorry, baby, but we can't build today. No inches." "Whaddya mean, no inches? We got wood, We got metal. We even got tape measures.' "Yeah, but you don't understand business. We been using too many inches and there's just no more to go around."

A few years later, people were saying that Germany couldn't possibly equip a vast army and wage a war, because it didn't have enough gold. What wasn't understood then, and still isn't really understood today, is that the reality of money is of the same type as the reality of centimeters, grams, hours, or lines of longitude. Money is a way of measuring wealth but is not wealth in itself. A chest of gold coins or a fat wallet of bills is of no use whatsoever to a wrecked sailor alone on a raft He needs real wealth, in the form of a fishing rod, a compass, an outboard motor with gas, and a female companion.

But this ingrained and archaic confusion of money with wealth is now the main reason we are not going ahead full tilt with the development of our technological genius for the production of more than adequate food, clothing, housing, and utilities for every person on earth.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 3 years ago

Why is wealth concentrated in the 1% or.1% since they don’t know how much money they have and have so much more than they need? The current system of taxation, and pricing allowed this to happen. What will the People do about it?

[-] 3 points by flip (7101) 3 years ago

we need education and then democracy no? i like the anarchist line - "give power to those who don't seek it!" we give it to power seekers and money lovers or maybe they just take it

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

But this ingrained and archaic confusion of money with wealth is now the main reason we are not going ahead full tilt with the development of our technological genius for the production of more than adequate food, clothing, housing, and utilities for every person on earth.

" edit " { Greedy Bastards } = O - M - G ( Mamon ) aAIieeEEEE there is a glut - THERE IS A GLUT - OH WOE IS ME WOE IS ME - Prices are gonna fall - My Holdings ( hoardings ) are gonna take an ABSOLUTE BEATING....................OH oh oh oh NOooooooo ( Bang - thump ) .....................

edit-> { On looker to this tantrum/suicide } Huh - I guess He just couldn't deal with being "meagerly" ( merely ? Modestly ? ) rich. Huh - sad - but not a loss.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

It really does not matter how money is looked at - as long as everyone agrees = World Banking for World Transactions and Domestic Banking for Domestic Transactions. Money is an artificial construct whether it is presented as representing a value of gold or anything else. It is when any system breaks down that the currency ( whatever it is based upon ) becomes judged to be worthless by others = the coming failure of wall street and the international markets as the world says enough of this fiction and rigged gambling games.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Example:Emergency Room Physicians have a difficult and dangerous job,yet Physicians who suck the fat out of people's butts or write prescriptions for unneeded drugs make 10 times more money

A way to look at this situation ( common all across the face of employment ) - is as though one were looking at an engine that is not operating on all cylinders or where there is a blockage ( partial or full ) to the coolant system and/or the lubricating system. The result being an engine that is not operating as designed - it is running rough - it is running hot - it has areas of increased friction - it is running under increasing stress - sooner or later the engine will break - needing at that point - repairs or complete replacement.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

A case in point to the Functioning of an engine analogy - this case had an immediate and fatal effect to a part of the engine - in this case liken it to the removal of a fuel filter ( perhaps ) :

Temp worker killed on the job 13 days after managers removed safety device

But hey - no problem - RIGHT??? As there are plenty of spare parts to get and keep that engine running. How many spare parts are looking for work today?

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

I don't like the flavor of that Capitalist Pig Employer! Capitalism is not only Sick-it has developed Complications-"Nothing Matters,Anything Goes." We cannot let money be our Master because the consequences will be fatal to our living planet,and all of us,too.I am so disgusted and annoyed by Ubiquitous Commercialism that sometimes I feel like I can't even stand 1 single day more of it.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Let us hope that your feeling is getting to be quite the norm - as we need the population to stand up pretty much as one and proclaim that enough is enough - and that needs to happen as close to now as is possible.

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 3 years ago

You put whatever label you want on it.

For me it is simply our commitment to the elderly (who built this country) to make every effort to prevent the misery of Destitution, Dogfood, & Death, that so many were subjected to before we implemented this great Social Security system.

And I agree ALL Americans should support Social Security expansion.

Pols who don't (or push cuts) must be identified and retired.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

If you want these freaks in power to run your retirement thats on you. But leave the mandate at the door, I can do it better myself.

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 3 years ago

The "mandate"/commitment of the great Social Security system has become part of what America is & will NEVER go away.

We WILL expand it & make it more progressively fair.

The "freaks in power" are those who disagree with this obviously best approach. Those "freaks" should be retired.

Supporters of this best approach would not be considered "freaks".

Freaky deaky dude

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 4 years ago

Think of retirement as optional not mandatory. Any able bodied person of sound mind should be permitted to work in whatever capacity is available.

Some people want to retire. Others may want to do more, start a new career or something.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

That isn't the point of the advert.

[-] -1 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 years ago

An "overton window" thread about SS and the alternative proposed is to raise rather than lower?

Does anyone here feel like increasing their pay in, into a corrupt war mongering clan that is determined to destroy everything that it comes across, for a measely and pathetic check in 40 years?

All in favor say aye!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 3 years ago


[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

LOL - u R late to the party - the Koch's and Walton's have sewed up the market of selfish destruction - well not just them - but - they have made themselves very visible in this selfish manner/pursuit.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 3 years ago

Yes, they sure have.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Makes me sick to think of how many pretend to be ( or are actually ) unaware.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 3 years ago

He understands perfectly. He, 99 and Shadz are hitting my posts to see if I'm around.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Good to see you around - I have missed you - but I also have not been around like I used to either.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 3 years ago

I've missed you too.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Gawrsh ( blushing furiously - "being incredibly shy" - and kicking at the ground with the toe of one foot )