Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: surrounded by the one percent

Posted 2 years ago on May 1, 2012, 7:38 p.m. EST by elf3 (2736)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I live in one of the wealthiest areas of the country. It is occupied by the one percent. I was born a 99-er. They have it soooo good. They are driving cars that cost triple your yearly full-time salary. (Mercedes seems to be the car of choice.) They don't even check prices at the grocery store nor do they blink at the check out isle or at the gas pump while they fill up their brand new SUV's and punctuate their wealth with preparatory and ivy league school stickers on the back of them. Their children drive the new car they bought last year but got sick of. They live in a bubble and think they are above us. They really whole-heart-edly believe their money makes them wonderful people and better than you. They think they worked hard for what they have but in reality they were born wealthy and used that money to pay others to work on their behalf - but mostly they bought lots and lots of property... and now they rent to you at a price they think is perfectly reasonable. They cheat people out of their meager wages - they've learned how to price set without getting caught. They pay accountants to use every legal maneuver to dodge paying taxes - their family cars are incorporated. They entertain at their houses and write off the landscaping. Then when they have more money than they know what to do, with they find themselves and pretend to be writers or painters or poets but completely lack any artistic sensibility or know the true meaning of life since they have never been stripped of theirs or their dignity to have to serve another human being and wear the shadow of their opinions and judgement. When they talk about politics they talk about it as if somehow they are more entitled to speak about this country as if they now own it simply because they come from an ownership class.

92 Comments

92 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by unoccupiedambition (5) 2 years ago

I too was born to the 99%, in fact, into probably less than the 50%. No silver spoon, no inheritance, no handouts. I worked hard, in fact I busted my ass for many years and at times when young,worked three part time jobs to pay the bills and survive. But hard worked paid off. I'm now part of the 3-4%, not quite 1% and not likely to be, but one never knows. My partner comes from similar circumstances and has had similar success.

I earned my money fairly and honestly. Do I use existing laws and tax breaks to my advantage? Absolutely, you would have to be dim-witted not to. Yes, I live I a nice apartment and pay more in monthly rent than my parents paid in mortgage payments in a year. We have a vacation home, nice cars, a boat, nice things, travel and enjoy life. We also volunteer for charities and donate generously. We also pay a large share of income in taxes, which I am perfectly OK doing.

Do I feel guilty for my success? Not one iota. Do I think others who work less hard should have a bigger share of it? Not a chance.

Opportunity exists here, it isn't easy and you have to work hard, very hard, but it is there. It isn't found in a drum circle, an occupation, or a march, unless those intangibles and the freedom of a life unconnected to capitalism pleases you more. Then go for it - just don't envy those who mostly worked harder than you did and enjoy more material things. We all make our choices, own yours instead of envying mine.

[-] 3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Herman Cain stated your case more succinctly: "If you aren't rich, and you don't have a job, then blame yourself!" And we are all sure he is blaming himself for his failures, now.

Marie Antoinette had a famous one: "Let them eat cake." It sounded pretty nice since "cake" was a favorite desert. But the cake she was referring to was the residual build-up (shit) on the inside of bread ovens. Not so nice to eat.

And we all heard about Mitt's snooty aversion to cookies that he mistakenly thought were baked at 7-11. Way to be in touch, GOP.

It's not being rich or the 1%, it's the arrogance, greed and entitlement that are problems. Just like it's not being Muslim, it's the Taliban, al-Qaeda and suicide bombers that are problems.

It's not George Clooney, Warren Buffet or Michael Moore, it's the greed-addled few in the 1% who work overtime against democracy, hoard all the wealth insatiably, and strive for a neo-feudal plutocratic America who we have problems with.

It's not that you are enjoying life in an upper-class which is waging a vicious and bloody war against the rest of us, it's that you are conveniently oblivious to this cruel and evil class war and/or you couldn't care less, which makes you complicit, culpable and exceptionally loathsome. Don't like that rap? Blame yourself!

[-] -2 points by AntiOWSer (18) 2 years ago

Yes, I'm sure Cain, with his millions of dollars, is really upset, and loses sleep at night for the times he didn't succeed at his goals. You don't think he would apply what he said to himself?

The thing is though, it's true. If you don't like where you are at in life, change it. Rather than blaming everyone else (whether or not they have a hand in it), people need to know that they have the biggest impact in their life.

Of course, Marie Antoinette never actually said "Let them eat cake," but whatever.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2736) 2 years ago

If you're not part of the one percent why are you defending them? (hoping to get there?) The economic circumstances in this country are evidence enough of the destructive nature and absolute greed of the one percent. Ultimately it's self destructive (but that's what keeps me going - watching them shoot themselves in the foot). You're guilty for excusing their behavior and comparing yourself to them like they are the everyday American. You don't control the world by being nice, honest, hardworking, or down to earth (politicians only pretend to be this way.) We no longer have capitalism in this country we have corporatism and in that all jobs are going overseas faster than you can blink and there is no upward mobility- the one percent wants a servant class- they don't want workers, they can get slaves in China. If you're saying since this is the system we've been dealt and to deal with it - and in fact try to emulate it - then I heatedly disagree with you. I don't envy you or your stuff - I hate that you idolize and help keep the one percent in power. In doing so, you're helping a system that destroys the nation and ultimately the world, to thrive. Just because you managed to make it and you have yours doesn't mean that we have a functioning system or that the numbers of success stories are malleable and dependent on your own will to make it. That it is a fallacy.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

What They Think They're Saying:

"I'm not Paris Hilton! I work 70-hour weeks to make this salary!"

What We Hear:

"The only reason I have a hundred times more money than you is because I work a hundred times as hard!"

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-things-rich-people-need-to-stop-saying/

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

The fact that you have achieved whatever it is that you have achieved is completely independent from at least my own objectives as a supporter of OWS. What I am against is abuse of the system, financial crime on the highest level. Your life and achievements are of no concern to me one way or the other, I neither criticize nor envy them.

[-] 1 points by luparb (290) 2 years ago

The pathways you used to get to your current position no longer exist.

The jobs you worked are now done oversees or have been replaced by a machine.

The social institutions which supported the previous generations are being underfunded and closed down.

The cost of living has risen exponentially, and new businesses are competing with monopolies and the corporate lobby.

The environment is on the brink of annihilation, and is being further crushed by the incessant expansion of capitalist economies.

It's a very very very different world.

Being 'successful' isn't good enough anymore.

The system which enables the duality of wealth and poverty is now coming under question.

The wealthiest among us do no work whatsoever. They are merely 'owners', which involves no labor, no contribution, no innovation at all.

[-] 3 points by monetarist (40) 2 years ago

Really how do you know? I have a similar story like her. I come from a fairly middle class family and my parents have seen months where they could not even pay their rent. Today my parents are considerably well off. I am 28 and I have a BS and MS in CS and a MBA; each degree from universities ranked top 10 in the country. I had full scholarships for my BS and MS while I took a loan out for the MBA. Today I make more than $200k a year as a product manager.

There are enough success stories out there. It's just that this is not the right forum to find one.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

True, we are not too concerned with individual success stories here, we want to make our whole country a success once again.

[-] 2 points by monetarist (40) 2 years ago

And I am not too concerned about individual failures here. I think that one can always make a success out of yourself in this country provided one is diligent and not too lazy.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

You seem quite concerned with failure, assuming that that is what most of the people here are. There are some people here who have accomplished extraordinary things and some who are failures and everything in between. That's their business and theirs alone. Its not what this movement is about. We're concerned with putting an end to the financial crimes that are ruining our country.

[-] 1 points by monetarist (40) 2 years ago

Then you may be so kind as to explain how the following will put an end to financial crimes

  1. Making the country socialist.
  2. Dividing it into several countries based on political and economic idealogies.
  3. Raising the min wage
  4. Taxing the rich at 90%
  5. Inheritance tax of 99%
  6. Fining people for not voting
  7. Equal pay for everyone
  8. Regulating the interest rates offered by banks
  9. Taking in $15 trillion in additional debt to buy out a third of all American companies
  10. Open borders policy (while at the same time objecting outsourcing and complaining about low wages)
  11. Protesting at universities and schools
  12. Vandalism

these are the ones I could think off the top of my head.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Admittedly, there are some people here with "interesting" ideas. I'm mostly for the re-enactment of Glass Steagall, and an economic recovery program, something like FDR's New Deal. There are a number of people here, whom I consider the serious ones, that want the same.

[-] 1 points by monetarist (40) 2 years ago

I am not sure if Glass Steagall is the answer but I am all for finding one. Don't think I can take another economic crisis again in my lifetime

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Personally, I think that if we don't pass Glass Steagall, the economy will keep getting worse and worse. We can go from recession to depression to a real dark age.

We need Glass Steagall, then a national bank and a massive public works program. When FDR did something like this, it got us out of the great depresseion

[-] 1 points by monetarist (40) 2 years ago

I am not sure if the exact same measure would work now because the times are different, the world is different; not to mention we have massive sovereign debt. But yes, spending your way out of a recession is a standard Keynesian response.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Glass Steagall would eliminate much of the phony debt, but what do you mean in particular by "sovereign debt"?

I think Keynes believed in central banking as we now have it. This is a large part of our problem today. The plan I mentioned would replace privately owned central banking with a national bank owned by the public.

[-] 0 points by monetarist (40) 2 years ago

The national bank would be owned and run by the govt. Take Royal Bank of Scotland, it's partly govt owned and salaries and bonuses are limited and far less than comparable private banks. And yet they are in a mess today.

Take Chinese national banks. They give away loans not based on financial viability of projects but on the political connections of the company asking for financing. Or take India's State Bank of India which is govt owned. Not every Indian is flocking to open an account in that bank and I have read stories of poor treatment of customers and bribery in loan processing. And like China, their govt forced the bank to provide massive loans to a bankrupt airline which was owned by a politically well connected corporate.

Besides a central bank cannot just give you very cheap loans or very high rates on deposits, it can practically do one of these. If it provides cheap loans it will not be able to provide high deposit rates and if it provides high deposit rates it wont be able to give cheap loans.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Yes, the national bank would be something different from commercial banks. Its main purpose would be to provide credit for infrastructure development projects.

Chinese banks may make mistakes, but I believe the Chinese economy is doing quite a bit better than ours overall.

This is a good article on the topic:

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2010/3748hamilton_constitution.html

if you are not already biased against this author.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

We don't envy you. You are not what OWS is about. The 1% we refer to are the corrupt of the super-wealthy, not someone like you (man, I get tired of explaining this). Newcomers to this site make the same assumption. Not your fault.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Don't believe anything this guy says, about himself or anyone else. He probably goes under three other usernames and pretends to be three different people.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

He (or she) told me (further down, near the bottom by now) that they worked in the service sector. What makes you think they're not what they seem?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Are we both taking about monetarist?

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

I was talking about elf3, in regards to his post.

Ah, now your comment makes sense. Yeah, I know what monetarist's game is. You think he has another alias?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Sorry about the miscommunication. I won't speculate, other than to say he (monetarist) is a troll:)

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Absolutely. I called him out on his very first post. Something about shareholder's money isn't ours (DUH).

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Sorry, I thought he was who you were responding to.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

No apologies necessary. It's the layout of these threads. It makes it damn near impossible to follow sometimes. I think it should be like most other sites, where the responses are chronological. Of course, they would probably have to get rid of the 'karma points,' which I think are a useless distraction anyway.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Agreed on both points.

[-] -1 points by monetarist (40) 2 years ago

and shareholder's money is yours? Looking like everyone's money is yours or may be everyone's money belongs to everyone else and therefore all money belong to no one and everyone. In that case, could you lend me $100k for that that Merc I have thinking of buying.

And FYI, I don't work in the service sector. I make software products not services.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

As was pointed out in that other thread, and my comment above (see parenthesis), we're not saying shareholder money is ours. The point was excessive executive compensation affects the cost of the product or service being provided. Unlike the Fed, corporations don't print their own money. The money that goes into the exec's bank account comes from where? Hint: it ain't thin air. Also, you don't know me monetarist, I'm not on this forum looking for a handout. I'm not one of the naive kids down at Zuccotti that doesn't have a clue as to how the world works (or the small part of it I'm familiar with). I'm middle-aged and blame no one but myself for my financial position. I don't want any handouts. I'm here because the country is seriously on the wrong track. My problem is people like you don't see it. You're doing alright, so the world must be alright. My problem is when people sign up for an account here and immediately start insulting people. I was on here two or three weeks before I made my first comment. You have blinders on, man. You don't see how seriously f--ked up this world has become.

And apparently you made the same mistake as GK. The person referred to above is elf3, the service industry worker.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

banks loan the money they have multiple time

creating money through loans

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

What a racket, eh?

[-] 0 points by monetarist (40) 2 years ago

Executive compensation hardly affects the prices of the products or services. Take Apple for instance. It has sold 35 million iPhones in 2011 so lets assume it sells an equal number of iPhones in 2012 (the sales of iphone has been steadily increasing so it is expected to sell much more than 35 million iphones). Now Tim Cook is rumoured to earn $400 million in stock and salary over the next decade, meaning an average of $40 million a year. So basically, if Mr. Cook took zero salary the cost of iPhone would drop by slightly more than a dollar ($40 million divided by 35 million). But remember Apple also sells a host of other devices besides iPhone. Of course, there are many other top execs in Apple who would be drawing million dollar salaries. But even if all those were accounted for, the difference is not huge. And my calculations assume these execs would take zero salaries which would not happen in real life either.

If you want to do a complete calculation you can always look into Apple's annual report, find the salaries of each and every exec and then calculate how much money they would save if these execs werent paid any salary. I guess you can optimistically expect a $5 drop in each Apple product which is nothing. I will buy a Macbook whether it's $1200 or $1195.

So yes executive compensation like any other cost, affects the cost of the product/service but not to a huge extent. Paying one guy a few million dollar does not make a huge difference to bottom line. But paying 100,000 workers in China and additional $1 an hour does.

The money that goes into the exec's account (or any other employee for that matter) comes from the sales of the product/service. You are doing a charity by buying the iPhone. You are paying fair and square for a good product.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Spoken like a true businessman. I can't argue with your math, though. There's nothing wrong with anything you say.

Except the last two sentences, which are total bullshit, of course. They do, however, say a lot about you.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by monetarist (40) 2 years ago

Nice one. It's great to see there are people like you on this forum who are not blaming others for their failures and who have made a success out of their lives.

[-] 0 points by AntiOWSer (18) 2 years ago

I'm curious, since others here claim that your way to the (almost) top is not possible anymore, whether or not you agree (specifically with luparb's reply/comments).

Also, if you don't mind, about what year do you feel like you made it to the comfortable position you are today?

[-] 2 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

anger issues, big anger issues

[-] 2 points by Frog12 (0) 2 years ago

Not all rich people are bad. A good amount of them have come from nothing. OWS is creating this idea that all rich people are evil. Stop being envious and work. You have the ability to be wealthy. It's not like just because you are poor that you somehow don't have the right to be rich. Robert Kiyosaki was poor as a kid but is very rich now because he worked and busted his ass at it. You don't deserve rich peoples money. OWS has started a class war where in a country people are not separated by class.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2736) 2 years ago

That is funny #1 who says I don't work another assumption of the wealthy - just because I'm broke doesn't mean I don't work hard(I have worked full time for the last 17 years pinch every penny and I don't ever shop for items that aren't necessitous, don't overspend, I budget, put off having kids, all the right things, but my meager pay doesn't keep up with the cost of living I make the same pay now as when I started working - how sad indeed when the cost of living has become so disproportionate- it's also clear i will never build a retirement and work until I can't) Now I'd have to work 6 jobs to keep up or have savings but after my long stint on this treadmill my legs are giving out. Phht !!! - I read rich Dad Poor Dad - you either grew up in a different time and don't face the challenges of today's young adults or you grew up wealthy and congratulations - didn't screw up what you were already given. (Tough life) In the very book you refer to he even admits that his circumstances relied on luck. When the chance for upward mobility and not struggling pay check to paycheck rationing food, and never having down-time becomes as hard to do as winning the lottery, then your country's in trouble. Word to the wealthy - when the dollar finally does crash - and it will because the downsizing and and conglomerating have not ceased - and people can no longer sustain corporate America with our taxes or with or with shopping - your money won't be worth anything - you'll get to see what it's like from the other side soon enough. The world has karma. You'll come crying to the empathetic occupy types then - because your own kind will "rip your face off", when survival is truly tested it's the people who can work as society's in an empathetic fashion that survive.

[-] 1 points by wasdeafonce (10) from Carlsbad, CA 2 years ago

this is good. let them turn on each other and rip their faces off, let us see who are true enemy(master) is.

[-] 2 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

This is spot on. This whole argument is nothing more than jealousy. You are angry. It has nothing to with economic growth or fairness.

[-] -1 points by elf3 (2736) 2 years ago

Balls on I'm angry but jealous of this never - no they just DISGUST me - and I hate them NOT for what they have BUT FOR WHAT THEY ARE LACKING innately in moral compass and in values and for turning my country into this thing it has become.

[-] 2 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

So you think immoral unethical and greedy behaviour is new and only prevasive in the 1%?

[-] -1 points by elf3 (2736) 2 years ago

No, but I think they wear it as a badge. Even more dangerous they use their ill got gains to bribe the government and pay the media in the most powerful country on the planet to force their backwards values on the rest of us.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/19/ipad-sales-first-weekend_n_1365421.html

This link shows that this is a wide spread cultural problem, not limited to the 1%. The 1% arent beating each other up on Black Friday. The greed in this country knows no class borders.

[-] 0 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

These people didn't get where they are by hard work. They lie. They went to the right churches and kissed the right wings ass from moment they were born. They feel that no one can fight the 1% and so they desperately want to join them. They think if they jump threw all the right hoops they'll get their pat on the back. Throw the doggy a bone. They come on the boards with fake stories and fake tales of how hard working they are and oh, how far they've come. Its all bullshit. Its just lies. They are piss-ants, licking the boots of their masters. My family is doing okay. We do business with poorer people. I'm smart enough to know who is paying my bills, its the poor who buy goods and services from my family members. It was the same for my grandfather who was a doctor. The other doctors would complain and get him raise his rates a bit. Now he worked hard, The GI Bill didn't do it all, he ran a feed store and sold sugar to moonshiners to get money for medical school. He knew he worked hard and was skilled and talented. He even had to accept a chicken or two as pay at times. People would bring stuff from their gardens. He was good man and he helped a lot of people, even poor ones. He paid off the right church and did his bit to be more socially acceptable. He wanted to be respected as a human being. He was still a decent human being. I don't see that quality in the trolls. What did they go into business with where their only customers are the privileged? How do they survive independent of the masses and have any kind of material success? No man is an island. The masses have been buttering a lot of bread to be so unappreciated.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (352) 2 years ago

You are assuming that everyone in the 1% is from the right, which is incorrect. And you are also assuming that everyone of the 1% did not earn thier wealth, which is also incorrect. Your father sounds like he was a special person and you should admire and be proud of him for that, but do not fail to learn his life lesson that he provided first hand to you.

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

Yes!

If you have no "consumers" there will be no "consumption." Right now the tax disparity, income disparity, and exploitation of workers are causing less and less Americans to be consumers and are turning them into simply survivors. I want a society where nobody is forced to take welfare or EBT if they are working, because I advocate for a living wage. I want a society where money circulates instead of stagnates in some bank account, ergo keeping the economy working. Last but not least, I want a society where people treat each other with RESPECT, where no one is judged because of what they own.

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

All this "free stuff" they think the government is handing out is a shot straight into the veins of our economy. A poor person will always be broke by sundown. You can't own a business and not be looking right into the customers face who will suffer and go away if things are cut. If you are truly a businessman you don't kiss thousands of dollars of revenue goodbye because you see three people out of hundreds working the system to the bone. You'll see some crap, but you can't help but see how much more good is being done. If your life is so great, how can you be jealous of those people? You can't be unless you are such a sorry excuse for a human being that you'd give up everything just to sit on your butt eating Mac and cheese and watching the boob tube. Anyone can drop out of the rat race anytime they choose to make themselves the poor. If they are that jealous, I say let them try it and see if it is as great as they think it is.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2736) 2 years ago

Yes and lastly - when all the consumers dry up they think they will still get paid from the welfare shoppers. Think about where all that tax payer money goes after it's filtered through the poor - They are all too happy to have people on welfare - it's not really helping the poor attain upward mobility - but collectively it's keeping Wall Street bustling. I love that they complain so much about welfare - I think it's a guise so no one looks in that direction because ultimately it's just another corporate bail-out funded by the tax payers. Society didn't develop this way. Human beings evolved with emotions for a reason. The evolved in groups together for a reason. When a wolf can't get along with the pack they oust him. Time to get rid of Wall Street - bring back mainstreet businesses - the butcher, baker, candlestick maker - ban these huge ownership conglomerates that want to turn us all into their puppets. We are capable of creating a society that can benefit all without a need for welfare. A need for welfare only arises when it's better than the other options available (starvation) - Wall Street calls that survival of the fittest.

[-] -3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Nope, it's not only among the 1%. But as the 1% controls everything, their immorality and greed impacts everyone else. When the poor behave unethically, they impact mostly themselves.

When a poor person commits a crime, he goes to jail. When the 1% crashes the economy, throws tens of millions of people out of work, decimates retirees' life savings, and forecloses on their homes, they collect bonuses.

[-] 3 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

Whoa, wait a minute. So now it's up to the 1% to keep the economy afloat, people in work, guarantee savings and keep people in their homes. Do the other 99% accept any responsibility.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2736) 2 years ago

Hell noooo !!!I'd send them overseas where their corporate headquarters are stationed - and refuse to ever allow the US to do business with them again. They are stifling innovation, free markets, and prosperity of the entire nation by fixing the market driving out all competition with super pacs and stacking government boards with their corporate boot-licks and holding the nation hostage. The 99 percent are innovative creative and thoughtful. We can make the economy work quite well without the one percent and we know how to make it prosperous for everyone and how to do it ethically. We would never ask others to eat the food that we poisoned. We would never ask others to slave while we horde the profits. We have different ideals because we measure our success when we've made it so everyone who wants to can be successful can - though in our own way - we don't measure success in mercedes... and when everyone can live their lives with dignity as humans instead of as numbers or quarterly margins - we hold different values we grew up knowing what to hold dear. Knowing that moments with loved ones are fleeting, knowing that people and ethics (the intrinsic values we hold on to that no car or bank account could hold a candle to) are more important than profits or material things.

[-] 0 points by unoccupiedambition (5) 2 years ago

I call bullshit. Just as it is wrong for the wealthy to categorize all protesters as lazy, self-indulgent whiners, it is equally wrong to stereotype all wealty people as immoral jackals who only prosper at the suffering of others.

I know it makes for a better story and fires crowds up to have a bogeyman to point at (for either side) but there are good amazing people in the 1% and the 99%, and there are immoral, bad people in both. To think otherwise is very simplistic, life is not that neat and simple.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2736) 2 years ago

Then how come the economy and mainstreet are in fact falling apart ? While worker productivity is higher than ever and wages haven't risen in 15 years, while Wall Street bidders, CEO's and bankers are living better than ever? I see the way they live compared to average working Americans.

[-] -1 points by wasdeafonce (10) from Carlsbad, CA 2 years ago

my problem is not the fact that you have succeeded at the game of capitalism, its the fact that you participate in a system that was designed by you with rules that were written by you to facilitate your control over us. that is the goal of capitalism, total control over all you see, including all the things used to further perfection of the game. i like capitalism, just not your version of it.

[-] 2 points by unoccupiedambition (5) 2 years ago

I didn't write the rules or design them, I learned them and learned how to be successful using them. I don't control you, but I'm in control of my life and destiny. Sure feels better than being powerless and angry.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by wasdeafonce (10) from Carlsbad, CA 2 years ago

you make my case when you say that you have learned the rules and have become successful at maximizing profits, making it almost impossible to have any compassion for humanity or our environment. doesn't take a dim wit to know those things get in the way of business. i'm not powerless, i've removed most of the connections to this version of the game and unless i'm willing to live in a van by the river i will not be able to completely remove the hook of the American Dream. you are right about one thing, i am angry.

[-] -1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

sorry but yes.. you are responsible. when what you do affects hundreds of thousands of families, the ability of a country to operate, the basic structure of the economy. then yes. you think some one making 30k has any affect on any one other than themselves? not until their job is eliminated.. then they cost you and everyone else.

[-] 2 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

Bankers are not responsible when somebody borrows to much money and wastes that money. Economies go in cycles. They always have and no one has shown they can control them. There is an old saying that we forgot caveat emptor.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Bankers are completely responsible for the bad loans they make.

[-] -1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

im so sick of having to explain this. do some research. i dont have time to look it up right now.. but the crash of the housing market had very little to do with people not paying back loans.. it had to do with bankers giving out loans they KNEW would not be paid back.. then putting those loans into depositories, and selling them as assets increasing their profits on fake reporting! there by causing the stock market to crash and the economy to be destroyed. try to get informed before you blame the people being manipulated by the 1%. what do you think the bank scandal was about? fraud! 1% unethical greed and corruption

[-] 4 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

You can be as sick of it as you want but reading blog posts on the internet does not constitute research. Sorry to dissapoint you but I am fairly knowledgeable on this subject. It doesn't matter what somebody is trying to sell you iof nobody buys. You can assume that bankers were handing out bad loans, there was somebody who was signing on the line that they are responsible for paying it back. That's called responsibility.

The markets declined because the assets behind the debts declined in value. It happens all the time in history and will happen again. I don't blame anybody because markets go up and down.

All this talk about greed and corruption is utter nonsense. Human nature is full of bad players - just look at how you couldn't control your own OWS people yesterday. They ransacked stores and hit people in the heads with pipes.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

ill agree with you that people took these loans voluntarily but the banks were encouraged by the government to give out loans to more people.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

the markets did not decline because the assets declined in value. what would that have to do with 14 million jobs being eliminated? or anyone paying payments? no one controls OWS its of the people by the people. its not a conspiracy . I can tell your ignorant of reality, there were laws that prevented loaning money to bad risk borrowers that were repealed. now the 1% could have held that greed in check and maintained the economy but instead made a conscious decision to defraud stock holders and damage the economy for personal gain. but thats ok with the likes of you. hopefully, all your investments will be wiped out by the next crash, your job will be eliminated and your house repossessed. no problem .

[-] 1 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

You clearly are not aware of what happened in 2007 and 08. Loans are made on assets and if the underlying assets lose value, then the loans can become insolvent. It was a classic run on the bank. No more, no less.

Nobody controls the economy or the banking system, not the 1% nor the 99%. You say nobody controls the OWS - which I agree with - then nobody controls the 1%.

Your comment about personal gain is curious. The basics of economics is that all people take actions for personal gain.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

but the banks KNEW those loans would go bad. they still sold them as assets knowing they would be worthless. yes the banks do control the banks. when you know something is going to be worthless and you sell it as an asset thats fraud. and that what happened in 2007 and 2008/. you are clearly not aware of what happened. most people do not act fraudulently for personal gain.

Federal prosecutors said they had been investigating Bank of America and Countrywide since 2009 for knowingly making loans insured by the Federal Housing Administration to unqualified borrowers. They also said they probed allegations that the bank and Countrywide defrauded the FHA by originating loans based on inflated appraisals.

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/2012/02_-_February/Whistleblower_accuses_Countrywide_of_appraisal_fraud/

[-] 1 points by Cweiss (-8) 2 years ago

Of course there was fraud and bad behaviour just like there is any organization, group or business. But there was not institutional fraud. The people who broke the laws should be punished. In my opinion there is a bigger issue, and that issue is what allows undue leverage and risk and historically that has derived from a lax monetary system. The same issues have arisen in the past and will again if we don't understand it.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

yes it was institutional.. the brokers were following orders from above. they didnt do it on thier own accord. they knew what they were doing, but instead of refusing.. they had to keep those 1% jobs and bonuses. hence the terms greed and corruption. and yes the laws that protected us were dismanteled, due to the greed of the poloticians and the money they get from doing favors. so you see.. the 1%, the government, corporations. are what is destroying this system not the 99% protesting this injustice.

what do you think ows is attempting??? to make people wake up and understand

[-] 1 points by Cweiss (-8) 2 years ago

No there wasn't and if you believe that it will happen again. They work everyday to make money that is it.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

The 99% did not cause the collapse. The banksters and Wall Street did. Where have you been?

Does the 99% control the money or the political process? Where have you been?

Oh, yes, you have been in your room jerking off to fantasies of fame and fortune.

Troll.

[-] 2 points by Krowell (-69) 2 years ago

So only the 1% took out home loans? What does the political process have to do with anything.

Come on over and drop your pants, I will jerk you off since nobody else will. Come on, try us girls sometime, you will enjoy it. We have soft skin. But will you be able to keep it up for me?

[-] 0 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Only the 1% securitized them and sold them as 40 to 1 derivatives that were sure to crash, paid each other off to give toxic paper AAA ratings to sell to dupes, got legislation to allow them to do it all, and after they crashed the economy, handed the bill to to the American public at large and paidi themselves handsomely for the effort.

I know you like jerking people off. That's why you're here. You got so used to giving hand jobs to the Kochs you decided you wanted to spread the joy after you spread your cheeks.

No go back under your bridge like a good little troll.

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 2 years ago

Try a girl to jerk you off. Get away from the guys.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

If by "guy" you mean yourself, you don't qualify. Bacterium don't have gender.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by Faraujo (-4) 2 years ago

Man you really do have a sex problem. Why do all of your comments always come back to that. Do the boys back at the local know your gay?

I will call Maddaloni for you.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Man you really have a stupidity problem. I'm simply putting things in terms you trolls will understand.

[-] 1 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

Therapy?

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Trolls are too stupid to know they even need therapy.

They think that coming to a support site of a movement to trash it so as to get off on negative attention is perfectly normal. That they get off on it is public mental masturbation, hence my pointing it out to them is not MY sex problem, but a simple description of theirs.

Poor little trolls. Their lives must be totally empty for them to need anonymous negative attention in order to gain pleasure. Life must be pretty grim under the bridges where they live.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

LOL!!!

[-] 0 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

Stop talking about yourself, it is not healthy

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Took two days to come up with that witticism, did it? And it's on the equally high level of the old grade school "rubber/glue" retort. Was it a good powerful ejaculation for you, or just an itsy bitsy one to match the size of your brain? Thanks for proving my point for me.

[-] 0 points by Dgoerz (20) 2 years ago

Oooh, really tough. There you go again with the sexual comments.

Unlike you I actually have to work. I don't have fixed payment contracts like you union workers, I cant' sit at the union hall , smoke drink, and eat donuts and wail about the big bad management.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Good post, elf, but I have to ask. If you're a "99%er," how is it your living in that neighborhood?

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2736) 2 years ago

The servant class sees them as they are serving them.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Ah. I suspected that but didn't want to assume. Didn't want to accidentally stick foot in mouth. ;-)

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I think we need to retain the focus on the 1,200 or so people who are so wealthy that they don't even have neighbors.

[-] 1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Wow. Stereotype much?

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

It sounds like money has made the people that you describe down right evil.

Why would you want their money? Will it not just corrupt you?

[-] 0 points by moneyandgreedprevails (-1) 2 years ago

hahahahahahaha whinning hippie stoner pedophiles!!! get a life and jobs for christ sake you wanna make a stand go to college and get a job that enables you to make decisions for our country!! you wanna see what would happen if you dipshits get your way and all the banks close and atm's stop spitting out cash???? go to Iraq and Afganistan!

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2736) 2 years ago

Yes then, we'll all stop wining, go to bed without dinner again, watch our children get sick and be unable to help them, watch our parents get old and sick and let them starve because we accepted these conditions and don't have the means to move from our station and support them despite working so many hours. What you are really saying is "know your station". And we're supposed to forget we have others relying on us or that others are suffering as a result and become hard and cold like they do in third world countries we're it's all they've ever seen or known. I refuse to let my country develop a caste system, I refuse to let America turn into just another third world corruptly lead shithole. This is not whining it's standing up for freedom - the most patriotic thing you can do and the foundation of our democracy. When did things get so backwards that protecting our freedom and fighting authority powers who seek to control and subdue the masses into thinking they deserve nothing more than what they have and using a propaganda line that says "well you could if you tried harder and weren't so lazy" when it fact we're anything but lazy we are ambitious and self-sacrificing and hard-working. If we're so lazy how come we're the ones fighting so hard for the rest of the nation to keep our democracy and make this a better system instead allowing the institution of a caste system where only 2 percent can ever prosper. Once a system is implemented it's harder to undo - oneday something is awful and unfair and even cruel - but after a while it is the new normal... they're boiling us slowly like frogs - every day that Congress votes or the Supreme Court rules, we lose an inch of freedom - we need awareness and watchers, and fighters!!! No matter how uncool the right believes that is, because that's what the group told them to say.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[Removed]