Forum Post: Surgeon Charges $250,000 To Sew Up An Incesion. That Seems A Tad Much.
Posted 10 years ago on Sept. 22, 2014, 9:54 p.m. EST by Nevada1
(5843)
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More fuel added to the fire that calls for Universal Health Care and an end to for profit health care.
Would hate to be operated on, by these greedy criminals.
No shit - it makes me wonder what my mom's latest Hospital Bill is gonna look like - she just had her aorta valve replaced.
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Ignore Button = engaged
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When someone goes for medical help, the potential charges are unpredictable----$1000---$10,000---$100,000----$200,000----???. A guy here in NV was in hospital for three nights for infection, got some iv drips, nothing invasive---$250,000.
(could not add twinkle to your comment)
Standardization of costs - standardization of care ( the best available to medical science ) - what does a nurse get paid per hour - how long does it take to hang an IV Bag - what does an IV drip cost - are we looking at a reasonable charge of 100.00 or less? A bed? What is the discount motel charging for a nights stay?
Yes-----Standardization. Also, medical price gouging is a crime, and must be treated as such---- especially when they victimize people when they are down.
White collar crime - it's not "just" wall street.
A crime committed against a patient, by medical workers, is serious. Like getting rapped by the clergy.
One could consider medical crimes as crimes against humanity - and punishable as such.
Exactly
I think that that could be a good meme to get started out and about.
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Ignore Button = engaged 4 points 20 hours ago by DKAtoday (28479)
Lol you might get a slam of Obama once in a while, but the DNC is off limits haha.
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Only You "think" you're funny.
would be nice to have public presence
Well . . . go out in public.
looking for news
did an occupation happen ?
Happening - Democrats are trying to occupy this forum as we speak.
Yes sir officer.: Partisan Political (dbl secret) thought Police, On the job!
PPP Savin' P(ee) for one party only!
(Founder: Sen. J McCarthy)
https://twitter.com/hashtag/ferguson?f=realtime&src=hash
This is the root of the problem we are all currently facing...corporations have more wealth than nations now they aren't serving us they are ruling us. They take those things which we need and offer them for ransom, take away competition and choice, and key point are now too large to sue- they have little competition and when they do they adopt the same practices and prices..and they have stuck their hands in our tax pool knowing especially the things that the government pays out most for such as healthcare and food....they want us reliant on them ...reliance is control ...so they manufacture and force reliance and then they hold our resources for ransom ...and use them to threaten us...I would assume hospitals get away with this because the poor dears "need to recoop costs and you know stay in business so we can all have care when we need it "..because if they can't just charge what they please they threaten to shut their doors and cut services the public needs. It is ransom. Corporations are the largest threat to democracy...and our government is negotiating with this type of terrorism. So let's all raise our glass to the latest merger shall we and give up a larger chunk of pay in taxes to " keep them in business"? Let them charge what they want .after all ..it could be even higher or they might just move out of state... you don't want that do you.
Thank you elf3, for excellent post----It says so much. Everything has been Weaponized. Corporations (extreme terrorists) are killing Earth.
I think it is time to move to a "not for profit" country....
if the people had money to spend|
many would work for the people to make profits
I see the piece speaks of greed,I don't know how you will receive this comment Nevada, it's not that I don't wish people were "better", it's just I don't expect it, I think folks are folks I wish I could say that if I were able I would better but I'm not sure I would, I like money too and things it buys, like DK says in the top comment it's about the system that allows it, not the person, folks are folks and it's ok to be human no one knows what they would do, if one could get paid $100,000 for a day's work who of us would turn it down? but we need to fix this system before somebody offers me that kind of money, seriously nobody needs to making that kind of coin....
Agree. It is about a system, that needs to be fixed.
OMG and ''Have our consciences become unshockable?'' !!! ''Patricia Kaufman’s bills after a recent back operation at a Long Island hospital were rife with such charges, said her husband, Alan, who spent days sorting them out. Two plastic surgeons billed more than $250,000 to sew up the incision, a task done by a resident during previous operations for Ms. Kaufman’s chronic neurological condition.'' !! WTF ?!
multum in parvo ...
And with all this unregulated billing, quality of US medical stinks.
US Healthcare is a misnomer for The 99% and a national scandal but will the 'Two Faction ; One War & Austerity Party do anything about that ?! Will they question The 'Healthcare' or Insurance Corps ?!! Will they bite the hands that feed them ?!!! Hmmm. Also fyi :
fiat justitia ...
Costs per time and education levels would be reasonable in most scenarios.
The problem is keeping up with technology, the costs are incredible and they need to be updated yearly.
Perhaps subsidizing the equipment at hospitals and doctors, and leaving the rest of the business to do it on their own would be a good plan?
Of course, the issue of business insurance and the blood thirsty lawyers usually put a wrench in most practical plans, so who knows.
Universal 'Single Payer' Healthcare .. with its concomitant massive 'economies of scale' and the removal of the inefficiency of 'the profit (and avarice?) motive', is the answer. ''Leaving the rest to business to it on their own'' .. is both what they want and what got American Healthcare into the state it is in but your last line also has deep insight and truth, imo. Also consider :
fiat lux ...
shadz thought I would chime in below with "turbo the con" does he even pretend not to be a con?
Hmmm. Maybe 'con' is as 'con' does but at the real risk of offending you both ... 'who isn't a con' in US polytricks these days ?! I mean you're a Dissenter in blood Red AZ right ?!! But as you're NOT averse to Hitlary for POTUS next time ... do you honestly think that she will ever advocate Universal 'Single Payer' Healthcare for Americans or will she more likely sing Neoliberal ; pro-War ; pro-Austerity ; 'Free-Market Fundamentalist' ; Corporate tunes ?!!! 'Turbo' likes Gar Alperovitz btw, so who can judge anything here ?
multum in parvo ...
Gar rocks, good guy, great ideas, creative approaches instead of relying on bought out political systems.
FartsRfun is pretty anti democratic, supports war mongers at all levels, and really only cares about himself being correct, not the concept or the idea.
But you don't speak for Frf, or anyone else though. Right?
"turbo the con" chimes in again well if you don't like me I must be doing something right......
It's the ''doing something right'', that's most of your problem factsy !!! Too 'right of centre' - but not quite as far ''right'' as The Repugnants but waaaaay too Damn ''right'' for The 99% as The 'Two Faction ; One 'Neoliberal Austerity / Neocon Wars' Party is NOT something to aspire to ffs, frf !! Please start thinking 'Left' because all this 'Right' is just Wrong & Hitlary - like Obomber .. is a Neocon / Neoliberal 1% nut !
Again fyi : http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/22/obama-legacy-relevance-in-question-us-midterms & also consider :
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/26417-for-profit-insanity-is-killing-americans
verum ex absurdo ...
so have you too become a full time con? I guess it matters not "what you are" you work to elect the GOP that's all anyone needs to know about you....oh and it looks like you're doing a bang up job looks like the GOP will win the Senate you must be very happy.
Your RepubliCon friends and relatives are your problem .. NOT me !!! Calm down factsy, STOP 'projecting' & this is your e|L_bow & this is your ass, (..i..) - get it ?!! Pfffft !
nosce te ipsum ...
no one but you projects your work here and that work is designed to elect the GOP, there is no question about that the only question might be about your motives, but the fact that you accept outcomes like the W Bush years to support your plan is not in question...
You throw ''ego'' at any and all who do not accept your 'keep doing the same thing but somehow expect different results' approach. The only ''ego'' resplendent in its pig-headedness that should worry you ... is actually your very own 'frf' !!! Try to re-read our exchanges here and then WTFU !! Your sad reduction of everything to a 'zero sum game binary' and inability/unwillingness to try to see past more than just one (s)election cycle is really very poor form on your part and you should endeavour to go get a clue, asap !
fiat lux et temet nosce ...
oh I expect tech has passed the 2 year benchmark
I don't want the change when I'm dead
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ is what it's all about Matt - give or take an 'r' !!!
multum in parvo ...
''Gar Alperovitz : Why we Need a Revolution in Healthcare'' - and from only ~ 5 months ago ...
Re. factsy, by being a Hitlary loving Democrat .. he actually accepts demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy !!!
The irony is not lost on anyone other than him tho' .. but imo we all can grow and change - perhaps !!
verum ex absurdo ...
and you actually accept W Bush as a reasonable outcome, and work to elect Jeb even now you loved W so much!!
Stupid Fkn Idiot !!!
temet nosce ...
you help elect W Bush and I'm the idiot maybe you should find a mirror you're the F'n idiot out there electing Republicans!
Yep, your italics are correct and your brain is stuck in 1st gear !!
Again, I have NOTHING to do with Republicrats or Demoblicans !
et spero meliora ...
If you have nothing to do with Dems why do you talk about them so much?
It is clear you do so to elect the GOP. You never comment or post about anything else you even take comments and posts that have nothing to do with Dems and use them as chances to help elect the GOP.
Your purpose here is clear to draw away liberals from killing the GOP to feed your ego driven third party political hack shit.
oh god
''Occupy Wall Street is a leaderless resistance movement ... with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%.'' --- From the homepage but something that seems to have eluded but forced frf into the arms of Hitlary & Obomber !!! Surely we're here to think the unthinkable for the extremely limited 'D&R' spectrum !! Sheesh, the level of deep programming is very to hard to take !
pax ...
agreed - he is really unpleasant. no matter what you say to him the response is the same - not sure if you know this one but i watched it with my grandchildren and it seemed perfect - the pear says "oh god" at the end - very short check it out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN5PoW7_kdA
'The Annoying Orange' has been viewed 155m times !!! ''Oh God'' - but NOT for 'pear' like reasons !! I do get your drift but jarringly irksome or otherwise, 'factsRfruity' does actually serve a purpose here re. the agon [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agon ] so be patient but firm .. like you may {or may not} need to be with your grandkids - who are lucky to have you ! Also fyi :
respice ; adspice ; prospice ...
red bank nj - right near where we live. the congressman she talks about is our guy. good man - he has regular meeting where anyone can go speak with him. local guy wears bad suits!
Healthcare is a human right, not a commodity or a luxury for those who can afford it .. or trade in it - wearing their in ''bad suits'' ;-) Also fyi :
https://occupywallst.org/forum/we-demand-real-healthcare-99/ ;
''The Neoliberal Turn in American Health Care'', by A. W. Gaffney : http://truth-out.org/news/item/23434-the-neoliberal-turn-in-american-health-care ;
"Supreme Court Judges Have Access to Guaranteed Care, Shouldn’t You ?" by Rose Ann DeMoro : http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/03/30-0 ;
''How Vermont Got a Single-Payer Health Care Bill : A Non-Electoral History'', by Michael Arria : http://truth-out.org/news/item/24639-how-vermont-got-a-single-payer-health-care-bill-a-non-electoral-history &
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/
fiat justitia ...
ok i read up on agon but can't agree here - to have a contest one must have IDEAS on both sides - not just an annoying orange type fool saying "apple." now how do you know about 155 times?
What 'ideas' can the increasing right-wing, status-quo-ists really, truly give ?!!! Ever more : Neoliberal ; Monetarist ; 'Suppy-Side' ; Friedmanite ; Hayekist ; 'Quasi-Libertarian' ; 'IMF/Washington Consensus' ; 'Chicago School' ; 'Pro Austerity for The 99%' ; 'Pro-Imperial-MIC-Wars' ; Neocon - smoke, mirrors and B-S ?!! You have to show forbearance and repeatedly keep presenting the same arguments, again and Again and AGAIN - I believe !
Re.'The Annoying Orange' video btw, 155m = Million times !!! Look at the right hand side, just below the video !! Pretty Amazing ! Also as per the OP, I'll append and recommend :
fiat lux ...
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Not going back to Bali, Indonesia then ?! Got tired of being a Neo-feudalist ?!! Or did your wife catch you dating men - again ?!!! Most humans would see healthcare for all as a mark of civilisation, modernity and progress and the contrast in the matter between The U$A & Canada - could not be more stark. Also fyi - re. the roots of so much that ails the US : for profit health business ; water privatisation ; fracking et al ..
verum ex absurdo ...
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''Truth told with bad intent - beats all the lies you can invent'' (Wm. Blake, from 'Auguries Of Innocence')
You know damn well how your specious, slithering, sly jibes at this forum have adversely affected things around here and thAt of course - is the express purpose !!! I have said that there is a difference between 'leading' (an express ambition of yours and to which you have even made a forum-post) and 'con-troll-ing' {cf. yourself!} - and 'facilitating a forum for ideas and debate & your bona fides are very suspect and your mala fides - ''now very well esTablished'' too !! Re-read the 'Concern Troll' link below, *Trashy !
et temet tnosce ...
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There's a difference between 'leading', 'facilitating' and 'con-troll-ing' !!! Your ant-agon-ism to this forum and to OWS in general - is well noTed (pro-Income Inequality ; pro-SOPA ; pro-Police v. anarchists in Oakland etc.), once again !! Your 'Concern Trolling [ http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll ], is now very well esTablished !
per aspera ad astra ...
And you elected someone who has attacked 9 countries in 6 years- assuming you believe in their power through your votes- more than any other president ever.
How does that make you feel?
Turbo the Con attacking dems oh my what a shock! so you prefer W's wars?
I will admit this, I am f'n glad Bin Laden is dead.
no stupid - that is the point - we do not like any of their wars. you seem to think that the dems bomb nicer - all the same. the fact that you cannot see it is stunning. 7 countries in his 2nd term - 2 years 7 countries - now tell us is that ok? criticize his war making and we are good - come on you can do it. say it is terrible that he is trying to frighten the country just like bush and rummy. tell us that he has made the problems in syria and ukraine much worse by using force over diplomacy. i could go on but you get the idea. then tell us he is better in domestic policy - like gay marriage and the right to choose - i for one would agree
no I just think if Hedges and Nader and other ego driven idiots like them hadn't conned so many people into feeding Nader's ego in 2000 there wouldn't be near the damn wars there are, but as far as that goes I come to OWS site more to talk about wealth inequality and money in politics I do think the anti-war crowd should start their own forum there seems to be plenty of them....
so you do not understand the difference between student debt - owed to the government and corporations and government debt - owed to itself? and you call me stupid- ouch - you never cease to amaze
government debt is owed to rich people that's how they indenture future generations you are such an idiot flip....
when the federal government runs a surplus and retires debt it actually takes money out of the economy - exactly the opposite of what should be done in time of recession. the debt is a problem for the elite not ows - as in simpson bowles! you should try to understand how government finances work - i could explain it but i am afraid you would just do your usual.
wow I had no idea that you were this big of an idiot, how about student debt are also stupid about that?
well rich people often buy treasuries etc but but that is not really the point. who bought the money that bailed out the banks etc - to the tune of trillions? the fed sonny - they create money out of the air - a computer entry - no? now i think you should be careful about calling others idiot when you do not really know the subject. i also imagine you will slink away like you always do in these discussions when it is pointed out that your thinking is dead WRONG! so slink away - AGAIN! but first read this since i took some time to find a SIMPLE explanation of who owns our debt - start with this - "Although Federal Reserve purchases of Treasury securities do not involve printing money, the increase in the Federal Reserve's holdings of Treasury securities is matched by a corresponding increase in reserve balances held by the banking system. The banking system must hold the quantity of reserve balances that the Federal Reserve creates." .....................then try this - SIMON JOHNSON, MIT Sloan School of Management: It's quite funny. The Federal Reserve insists, absolutely categorically, "We do not print money. That's the U.S. Mint that prints money."
But, of course, the Fed issues money. It's a great deal, right? Instead of having to print it on a printing press, you just do it digitally. It doesn't actually cost you anything, hardly anything to issue these new digits, these new bits of code on a computer somewhere.
PAUL SOLMAN: In other words, these Federal Reserves or federal funds are just digital promises, computer blips, not cash, but just as good, no different than the money in your checking account.
So the Fed is creating money, even if it's not minting it, something like $600 billion new electronic dollars in the past year.
ok, thanks for a reasonable response. i know your opinion about gore and what would and would not have happened had he been president in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. i do not share it. the evidence of war mongering by recent democratic presidents seems to make it difficult to argue that position. i also understand that you want to talk about wealth inequality - a huge issue today and we agree completely! i have friends who are nearing 60 and struggling to survive because of what has happened to the working class over the last 40 years. sadly we have had 14 years of democratic presidents since the days of daddy bush (1992)and how has that changed the wealth picture? as to the anti war crowd finding it's own website - well that is a bit out there. had you been around at the start of occupy and spent time at the park you would know that it was pretty much an all inclusive movement. yes there are plenty of us who are anti war and i would hope you are too. i assume you are smart enough to realize that just because you have your favorite issues they are not the only important ones!
well if you brother to take a look you have noticed that we were on track to pay off the debt by 2010 and real wages were rising until Nader and the other ego whores couldn't find a difference between W Bush and Al Gore on climate or anything else as a result of their egos and blindness we got W and debt and war. There is no reason to believe the same thing couldn't happen again, perhaps with Jeb this time those of you who consistently attack the Dems for not being good enough while ignoring how good the GOP is at making the wealthy both rich and powerful, people like yourself and Shadz and the much more transparent Turbo the Con, all of you help the GOP maintain power and thus making things worse not better.
Yes, in the beginning OWS had a clear message and people rallied, then people tried to make it into everything and it became nothing.
I don't support any of them. I guess that makes me half as bad as you.
Now run along and help elect more war criminals like a useful idiot.
Glad to see you gobble up the OBL garbage like a good boy too. How shocking.
you can say what you like, but you are a conservative and you work to help elect the GOP,
oh god
So you are a friend of Turbo the Con? Why am I not surprised?
on goppy and floppy; GOP blops hop
blops hop bomb
I hate Republicans, always have and always will. Ive only recently grown to hate the Dems too.
Your love of the GOP is evident in every comment and post, you are a true con anyone who can't see that is damn near as blind as Nader.
wow you really want a Republican President, you will turn anything into an attack on Hillary, what is funny as hell about that you are always saying I'm caught up in bullshit believing the media and trapped in the two party balb balb balb, and yet you still believe Hillary will be the nominee you really are blind as shit shadz...
IF Hitlary is NOT the next POTUS nominee in 2016 - then I'll sing your predictive praises and - hail you as king, seer & philosopher - but in the meantime I'll see u as being an example of the Binary-Blinded ; Duopoly-Deluded ; Zero-Sum-Game Believing - anti-OWS advocate !!! I do not have anything to do with Repugnants & criticising them here would be like shooting fish in a fkn barrel, geddit ?!! I don't get news or views from US MSM frf & I critique Obomber, Hitlary & The Corporate Co-opted Dems, from The Left !
ad iudicium ...
well... personally I don't expect Hillary to get the ticket... how-ever the ONLY decent non-tea-partier republican left is Buddy Romer ... and I doubt he will try again .... and I doubt OWS will stop fighting enough among ourselves to help any 3rd Party candidate to get a chance... so regardless of who the Dems have... they have got to be better than a Alec driven tea-partier ....
not an ideal situation... but that is reality imo
For your attention, consideration and information ... I will append and recommend :
The ''fight amongst ourselves'' - is the dialectic from which 'higher-truths' emerge ~*~
dum spiro, spero ...
interesting polls... http://pollingreport.com/obama_ad.htm (from the article)
I'll dig deeper later thanks !!
some pretend a handful of names control government
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what ??? a real post that isn't simply criticizing the site or other members here ??? congratulations ... I'll give the comment respect
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havn't heard much about it in long time... (and I rarely watch any MSM) ... how-ever if Occupy wanted to ... and we all got together ... we could get anyone we wanted elected in two years... :)
The G(rotesque)O(ld)P(eckerwoods) are going to run Jeb Bush.The NotDemcratic Party is free to nominate a Juicehead Alcoholic.a Crack Smoking Leper Prostitute with HIV,or a Satanic Dungeon Mistress Heroin Addict.Or Hillary-they would still win,IMHO.Here in NY State,Hillary left behind a vast reservoir of Bitterness,Anger and Resentment because she promised not to use us for a stepping-stone,and did JUST THAT at the FIRST possible opportunity.We desperately need representation in the Senate-for many years because we Sacrificed our senior Senator for decades-Daniel Patrick Moynihan.All of his efforts were devoted to guarding Social Security from the Hyenas.So we only had 1 Senator who was relatively ineffective due to lack of seniority,and Devotion of most of his time to Israel and NYC.Now our senior Senator devotes all of his efforts to the State of Israel,and the junior Senator is relatively ineffective due to lack of seniority and lack of political Clout.Hillary is a Lowlife Bottom of the Barrel Bushwhacking Backstabbing Careerist Warmonger who PROMISED she would NOT throw NY State under the Bus and then did it Immediately.
''The G(rotesque) O(ld) P(eckerwoods) are going to run Jeb Bush. The 'NotDemcratic Party' is free to nominate .. Hillary (who) is a Lowlife Bottom of the Barrel Bushwhacking Backstabbing Careerist Warmonger who PROMISED she would NOT throw NY State under the Bus and then did it Immediately.'' Right & remember 'carriage shift'/'return'/'enter' - is your 'grammar friend' ;-)
vincit qui patitur ...
Looking for answers is an excellent way to pass Time-it avails nothing when we look for Answers in the Wrong Place.Trust me on this one.Carpe diem.Also-Non sum Qualis Eram-LOL-Change is in the air,so it's just as well...
''I'm not what I used to be'' either but I still hope to ''seize the day*'' !!! I do agree with your premise tho' !! I think that there's a quickening to a reckoning for us all ! Less portentously, please also try to consider:
multum in parvo ...
Nolite ergo esse soliciti in crastinum crastinus enim dies solicitus erit sibi ipse sufficit diei malitia sua-for better or worse,I fear.
ahh but will you leave the site forever??? now that would be a blessing....
So, you would like me to .. ''leave the site'' - would you ?!!!
What ... so DNC co-option cohorts could run the place ?!!
Now, that is NOT really fkn likely ... is it Mr.'factsRfukt' ?!
minima maxima sunt ...
Tell us Shadz when did you first start to love the GOP was it Reagan that drew you so close to them?
Projecting with such anger, your RepubliCon neighbors in deep Red ARizonia on to me just won't do !!! Have you ever tried to cooly consider just how ridiculous is your sole fixation on just the next couple of POTUS (s)election cycles inside your .. binary blinded, duopoly deluded, political perspective ?!! Get A Grip there frf and do STOP -being such a conservative, anti-revolutionary, curmudgeonly oaf .. will ya ?!
temet nosce ad iudicium...
hmm I will consider your comment I guess talking about the next few POTUS would be like talking about the next few countries to be bombed, or next few trillions of dollars to be transferred from the workers to the owners through government policy, I mean why worry about the next 15 or 20 years? I just wasn't getting the feeling that we had that much time to act, I am surprised you think we do.
Of course there is the obvious answer you work to elect the GOP and know it, that is always a possibility.
Yes ... ''trillions of dollars to be transferred from the workers to the owners through government policy'' = Insight + Truth !!! However, ''why worry about the next 15 or 20 years?'' - says so much !! Furthermore, I don't "work for the GOP" nitwit - but you really are extremely fixated on what is - 'GOP-lite' GoDamn it !
multum in parvo ...
you are as incoherent as ever Shadz, but it is clear you have no answer to why you don't care about who the next President is, you have no ability to discuss the issue as you wish to hide your intent, you have been discovered and banned once before, perhaps it will happen again till then I guess we are stuck with your ego driven rantings....
The ''incoherence'' is all yours as on an OWS forum ''brought to you by radicals'', all that you can do is bleat about how Neocon/Neoliberal Hitlary Clinton .. is somehow the answer to the troubles that assail The 99% and our Planet.
As Prof. Cornel West said about the last POTUS race vis. The 99% ... ''Barack Obama - Disaster ; Mitt Romney - Catastrophe''. I don't ever ''accept'' Neoliberal/Neocon Republicons or Democraps. Keep trying to goad me & I'll just keep replying with the 'facts' - whether they 'r' 'fun' or not :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39511.htm by Prof. Cornel West &
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39822.htm by Mark Weisbrot.
fiat lux ...
Perhaps if the equipment were subsidized, there could be shops that specialize in certain areas, like X rays.
Literally only takes about 5 minutes. $50 min should be sufficient for someone to run a good operation, assuming they can stay busy enough for a day. It might actually lead to some real.... bum bum bum..... competition :)
Give everyone and anyone the equipment, and lets see who can run the best organizations. Just some thoughts Im putting out there.
There is more medical equipment per person in America than anywhere in the world, we should simply have a single payer health care system because the people that built this country deserve to know that their children and grandchildren and so on can get the heath care they need. The generations before have earned that for all the generation to come, the Brits feel that way and they have a great single payer plan that does far better than the American system at a lower cost.
Yes I do think Americans are entitled to health care because of what past generations have given for this country, period.
service cannot be paid for unless the public has another source of income
the public has plenty of money...
http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/
Generations like yours? All your generation did was fuck it all up for mine.
You are a Monarchist!
Put simply, 'market fundamentalism' and so the theoretical advantages of any ''competition'' are illusory imho ... especially in matters of collective provision of healthcare and other universally needed services.
Crapitalist (pseudo)competition - invariably tends to oligopoly and cartels as 'consolidation, buyouts and take overs' strive to limit any benefits of ''competition''. The 'Profit Motive' is a very real & serious problem sometimes and needs questioning !
Many small, efficient co-ops, charities and 'non-profits' may have a place but the bastard, extractive Corporations just HAVE to be opposed - especially for good social provision of the things like good healthcare and education imo, both of which I really do consider an actual 'right' in any country that actually espouses being - 'civilised' !!
The 0.01% Parasite Class have trillion$ ... for Bankster Bailouts and Perpetual Imperial War but NOT for free universal education and healthcare ? Right there is proof positive that The U$A is NOT a democracy - as most people want exactly that !!!
ad iudicium ...
The inelasticity of healthcare needs is certainly a factor in determining how that market functions, for sure.
Even 'Universal Healthcare' thoughts and ideas can get folk 'stinkled' off the face of the forum now it seems, lol, hrumph & hmmm + fyi :
fiat lux ...
Popularity contests, gotta love em.
With 'mid terms' not far ... we can expect more of the same going forward probably.
pax ...
60 minutes - Doctors fight against rising cost of cancer drugs
But on Health Care and what needs doing.
I thought that 60 minutes should do an interview with the group =
PSR ( physicians for social responsibility )
And I sent them an e-mail on their on-line contact form - to say so.
Roche pharmaceuticals has put a value on the lives of cancer sufferers like my niece -- $117,600. This cost is so high that even many insured patients can never get the drug!
Please sign the petition today!
Roche: Stop Denying Treatment to Breast Cancer Sufferers!
Shortly after my niece died, her five-year-old son told me that all he wanted for Christmas was, "Just one thing, Auntie Margaret: Five minutes with my mummy."
It broke my heart -- his wonderful mummy Helen had suffered an awful death from late-diagnosed breast cancer. At that time there were not many drugs that could have helped her. Now there is a new drug that could help people like my niece live longer, but manufacturer Roche is putting profits first, refusing to make the medicine affordable for most of those patients – and for the most horrible reason!
When asked why the drug was so expensive, Roche’s head of pricing callously said it reflects the value of the drug to the consumer. That almost sounds like Roche is saying life has a price, and if you can’t pay the price, you don’t deserve the product!
I started a Care2 petition demanding that Roche’s CEO reduce the cost of this drug and stop leaving cancer sufferers to die. Will you sign it?
I know exactly what it's like to rely on necessary treatment for a life-threatening illness. Four and a half years ago, I was also diagnosed with breast cancer. I was lucky – my cancer was caught early, and I had access to a drug that cost just pennies and saved my life.
But thousands of women like my niece are diagnosed with aggressive, advanced-stage cancer. And instead of helping these people in need, Roche is putting profit first and asking $117,600 per year for the treatment. This price makes it far out of reach for many of the people who need it.
Roche made nearly $12 billion in profits last year. It's unconscionable that this company would play with peoples' lives like this to pad those profits even more.
Please join me to call on Roche to reduce the price of KADCYLA to a level that will make it available to people in need. Every corporation hates bad publicity -- if 10,000 more of us sign the petition, Roche will have to take notice!
Thank you for taking action,
Margaret Connolly Care2 Member
Signed.
Doesn't hurt and may very well help - Hey? {;-])
$1125 pill----- http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Is-1-125-hepatitis-pill-from-Bay-Area-drugmaker-5815341.php
" The new daily pill Harvoni costs $94,500 for 12 weeks and $63,000 for eight weeks — both cheaper than some existing hepatitis C treatments, according to the drugmaker. But some patient advocates are already upset about the price after nearly revolting against Gilead’s first hepatitis C therapy, Sovaldi, which became the best-selling new drug ever when it hit the market late last year at $84,000 for 12 weeks."
And Hep C is forever ( no cure to date ) so - What a deal for Gilead.
What a burden for everyone else.
Well Said
More fuel on the fire for the public to push for universal health care and an end to for profit health care.
Ya think that is why some in government were ( are ) so dead set against the implementation of the ACA? So dead set against that they shut down the government to try to stop it.
Ya - I mean it is weak and terribly flawed ( to begin with ).
But it is now an established frame on which improvements and necessary change can be attached.
How is strengthening the insurance companies somehow leading to the path of getting rid of them?
The ACA was some of the slickest legislation ever passed, with people in favor of universal actually giving the groups that dont want it, more power, and pushing very hard to do so.
Incredible precedent too, being able to force people to purchase very expensive things via the federal level.
Who says that for profit insurance companies can not be brought into line?
Who says that for profit insurance companies can not be done away with?
Incredible precedent? No. Precedent goes to requiring drivers license's and car insurance.
They can be straightened out, anything is possible, just doesnt make much sense to strengthen them if the end goal is to get rid of them.
As far as precedent, thats why I said federal level. The other stuff is state. Now they can make bullshit purchasing mandates from their thrones in DC. Wonderful.
Nothing will ever beat that web programming company charging us a billion dollars to build a simple site though, that was incredible. The contract that just keeps giving lol.
cars aren't considered a right in the car insurance case
oddly
oh knowledge
the secrets that an inventor would would garner
in hopes that someone would want them
to get out from underfoot
i heard the weigh down the other
AnnnnnnndD tweet
DKAtoday @DKAtoday · 26s 27 seconds ago
People "BEFORE" profits https://occupywallst.org/forum/surgeon-charges-250000-to-sew-up-an-incesion/#comment-1050048 … People/health/environment "AFTER" profits = Crimes against Humanity?
You decide!
Healthcare, like everything else, needs to be massively decentralized in order to be reflective of reality.
Mega hospitals have no concept of what efficient business is, nor do they even have to care.
Enjoy your smaller health clinics while they last, because this fascist system is going to squeeze them out too eventually.
''The Truth about Socialized Medicine'' above is well worth reading & I'm also interested in your thoughts re. Gar Alperovitz : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZz2iQA6KLg but no rush. Solidarity.
Also fyi : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23191.htm by Dr. Michael Hudson &
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/07/how-you-finance-goldman-sachs%E2%80%99-profits by Nomi Prins.
I agree with some of what you say but most fundamentally - I do NOT see Healthcare as ''business''.
pax ...
Its a business in that if the small clinics dont pay attention to their operations and customer service, etc, they will not last.
Point taken but ''for profit insanity is killing Americans'' :
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/26417-for-profit-insanity-is-killing-americans
also fyURGENTi, see: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39953.htm
multum in parvo ...
What would you guess is the number one barrier to people starting their own clinics?
And also putting the small guy out of business?
Professional competency, expertise, skill & knowledge ?! More power to ''the small guy'' but a comprehensive healthcare system can not be provided without questioning 'the profit motive' ...
fiat lux ...
Hey shadz,
Healthcare Weaponized---to steal---to control.
Again, ''The Truth about Socialized Medicine'', by Audrey Mayer :
Because some reactionaries here .. clearly don't want you to read it !
pax ...
Excellent------This article says so much.
Ditto and by Thom Hartmann's 'Daily Take Team' :
Solidarity 'Nev1' & thanx a lot for this forum-post.
fiat lux ...