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Forum Post: Student Loans For Dummies

Posted 3 years ago on Dec. 14, 2011, 1:49 p.m. EST by Censored (138)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Apparently, that needs to be added to the freshmen curriculum. College: The place where our purported best and brightest go to further their education... in theory. But shouldn't our best and brightest be capable of understanding simple shit like:

1) Loans require repayment 2) Repayment requires a job 3) The more you borrow, the more you'll need to make 4) What you make varies according to what you study 5) Sociology and debt probably don't mix 6) Some schools charge less than other schools. 7) Lower school costs reduce borrowing.

But the entitled responsibility shirkers just can't manage to see it that way. Spending $150k on a degree that adds no value is a bad idea no matter who pays for it.

39 Comments

39 Comments


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[-] 1 points by Tinhorn (285) 3 years ago

You hit it on the head with this one. If your going to attend a major university to get a degree in underwater basket weaving, stand by for the shocker when you find out that underwater basket weavers only make $13.00 an hour.

[-] 1 points by forOWS (161) 3 years ago

Student loans are made by today's loan sharks. In direct contrast to the government student loans from decades ago. Those loans were made to qualified students with a 2% interest payable after you finished college. Those are gone. In their place today are loans that you might as well just apply for from your local loan sharking business that are just about on any street corner in America today. Yes, deregulation is the god of free-for-all profits brought to you by the GOP. Like wars and Wall Street speculation and union busting and private health care insurance, Big Pharma, etc., etc.

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

College students aren't supposed to be idiots. I hardly think anyone is confused by the concept of seeing how much you want to spend and understanding that if you borrow money for it, you have to pay it back. Tricky trick stuff. If we're to accept that even college students are to be this helpless, God help us.

[-] 1 points by EndGluttony (507) 3 years ago

College is too expensive for dummies: go fuck yourself. What did you major in, staring at numbers on a screen?

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

Go pay your bills. It really isn't that complicated. The helpless routine out of college students is tiring. If you can't figure out how to evaluate cost and borrowing against opportunity and risk, you have no business being in college.

[-] 1 points by EndGluttony (507) 3 years ago

You know nothing about me, dipshit. What did you major in? What kind of heinous bullshit do you do for a living? Fuck you and your lame ass life.

[-] 1 points by imhotep3223 (81) 3 years ago

The reason there is "no value" to the degrees people get now a days is because companies can get Asians to work for very little even though theses Asians have degrees as well. In China and various other countries. BTW not only do they work for less their education is better than America's education.

[-] 2 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

We're in a tough economic situation right now, but the problem goes a lot deeper than that. We're pumping out a lot of weak graduates with weak course of study, but with a lot of debt. Hopefully, future students will take the lesson and be more thoughtful about planning their educational investments.

[-] 1 points by forOWS (161) 3 years ago

Because corporations and NeoCons are deliberately devaluing all education today. From elementary school to graduate school. A poorly educated populous is much easier to control with lies and fear than an educated one.

[-] 1 points by Fitifong (39) from Kingsville, ON 3 years ago

8) Go to Canada where education is only a few thousand per semester

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

It can be inexpensive here too (cost to student, that is), if people are smart enough to balance costs against opportunity.

[-] 1 points by Fitifong (39) from Kingsville, ON 3 years ago

But yes, I agree, no matter what field you go in, there's always a way to get out without or with little debt

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

It's lost on this generation, but that's certainly the case. Being a careful consumer is part of it too. Watch you costs, of course, but then watch that value of what you're getting. When they show you a sham class, have the sense to take something else.

[-] 1 points by Fitifong (39) from Kingsville, ON 3 years ago

I'm talking 10k for everything all together plus living costs per semester for a University. In Canada College and University are two different things, College is a lower-ish level (basically if you got 60's-70's in school) and University is pretty much 80 - 90+, whereas a high level College in the U.S. is 200k for a few years (is that right?)

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

Well, here the choices perhaps are more varied. We have trade schools where you learn direct work skills. We have community colleges, which are entry level colleges. We have public universities at two levels: "state schools" and flagship universities. We also have private options.

It ranges like this: Good private school: $200k, weak private school $150k, out-of state public: $150k; in-state flagship: $100k; in-state "state": $60K; community college: $20k (2-years), trade school: $20k (2 years). All roughly.

Many can also adjust costs by living at home or scheduling time for work.

[-] 1 points by Fitifong (39) from Kingsville, ON 3 years ago

Ah, I see. We have community colleges too, but they work more like the trade schools. Good to know.

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

People just need to be grown ups and weigh costs against the value and opportunity. For example, you might choose a wonderful local school or the University of Texas, a great university here. But UT would cost probably 2x or 3x your local school. A smart college kid should be able to figure out which one, all things considered, is the better choice. OWSers would say that call is above their heads and should be someone else's problem.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 3 years ago

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DitzyGenius This is what you are describing. Some curriculums does not cover much about financial knowledge and is rigorous for the mind at the same time.

[-] 0 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

Simply put, $100k in debt for a Women's Studies major was never going to be a good idea. It's amazing how this generation seems to have even wiffed on figuring out the most obvious stuff.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 3 years ago

I'm not sure it's entirely their fault - it's failure of a) the parents who fail to teach financial responsibility, and b) the educational system that tells them they can go to whatever school they choose, regardless of ability to pay. Why do you suppose they tell them that?

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 3 years ago

Probably at least half of those who choose college today do not belong there.

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

Good point. Many would be much better served in trade schools.

Student loans were part of the debt bubble. Our best and brightest barely gave it a thought how much debt they were racking up. This really is about the dumbest generation in 100 years.

[-] 1 points by betuadollar (-313) 3 years ago

It's not a case of them being better served; it's a case of meaninglessness. Too many spend their entire adolescence in front of a TV, or a PC, or hanging out with friends; they fail to learn "anything" that might make a vocation seem a realistic possibility. For them, college is their only option and most have no idea what they want to be or even what direction is best to pursue.

I blame the parents and an educational system that fails adolescents who, as young adults, should be placed on some productive path. And I blame American prosperity in general - in former times that "child," as a young adult, would have found a place and purpose in the home as a necessary contributor.

[-] 0 points by bereal (235) 3 years ago

The above and MUCH more should have been taught by the parents, but the patents of these twits are probably just as dumb since they own homes they can't afford.

[-] 2 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

True. The dumbest was rampant, as is now the whining.

[-] 1 points by screwtheman (122) 3 years ago

You assumption on everyone being twits is sad. These statements push away people from supporting the OWS.

[-] 0 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 3 years ago

and prosperous nations and economic systems invest in the education of their human capital eliminating the need for overly burdensome student loans.

[-] 2 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

It depends on what you study. The repayment problem merely reflects the enormity of the mis-allocation of capital that's gone on. Huge numbers of people invested in educations that we're really educations at all. Sure, we have a tough downturn right now, but the bigger problem remains.

You can't be prosperous investing in education with negative returns, no matter whose money get spent. Fluff majors have soared while degrees in the sciences have flatlined if you can't understand what I mean.

[-] 0 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 3 years ago

partly true. although, fluff majors are not all fluff and probably play a much larger role in innovation and prosperity then we think. nonetheless, overly burdensome student loans are almost a necessity for most to obtain any type of higher education and that's a problem for our nation and economic system if it wants to remain prosperous. (or I guess we could just outsource our human capital to India).

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

Student loans only become "overly burdensome" when the student does a poor job of planning or makes poor choices.

Again, this is our best and brightest that somehow seem perplexed by how to figure this out.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 3 years ago

I disagree. I think for most, an overly burdensome student loan situation is a requirement for them to obtain any type of higher education. It shouldn't be that way. More of that investment needs to be made by the nation. (then again, we could always outsource our human capital to China)

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

That's an answer typical of the debt culture era. Overly burdensome loans are a choice, a bad choice.

Spending $200k on an "education" that generates a $50k job becomes no better an idea when we pay it collectively than if we pay it individually. Making investments without returns is no way to compete with anyone.

What we're studying and how we're doing it needs to change. That's the signal for people willing to listen and understand.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 3 years ago

I am listening and I understand your position. I just disagree. For most people seeking to educate or invest in themselves, overly burdensome loans are not a choice, they are required. They cannot make that investment and educate themselves without assuming that amount of debt.

Additionally, when considering all economic costs and benefits, spending $200k for a 50k job may be a perfectly reasonable investment. Your example is too simple and your conclusion that there are no returns is incorrect.

For the US to remain competitive and relevant, it has to ensure it's young can educate itself in both the sciences and the arts under reasonable circumstances (a society of only engineers is just as fragile as one of only artists). Currently, those circumstances are not reasonable.

But then again, we could always outsource our human capital to Honduras.

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

Here's an easy test. If the return is there, then take that return and pay your debt. Can't? Why? Answer: Because the return isn't there. Making the "investment" collectively doesn't change anything, it just hides it.

Society of artists? No, the problem is a society of people that really aren't much educated at all, despite having sunk a lot of time and money into something.

Hopefully, the next generation will more critically assess opportunity against investment. That's the discipline of our society that is such a wonderful strength. What's happened is a good thing, burying the cost off on government would merely let the recklessness continue. Women's Studies profs will soon be seeing empty chairs.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 3 years ago

Did it ever strike you that an "easy test" such as yours is entirely inadequate for such a complex environment? That was a rhetorical question, please don't answer.

Nevertheless, I think I understand what all of this is really about for you - Women's Studies (or Women's Studies profs).

Good luck.

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

Oh, Lord. Did it ever occur to you that being brainless about it is what causes default? Go ahead, study something irrelevant in the workplace, then wonder aloud to total strangers why you can't pay off your debts. Never mind the weird looks you get back. Gosh, if government paid for it, somehow the value gap between what was spent and what was created would vanish and we could go back to pretend time.

Seriously, how this suddenly became complicated is beyond me.

Yeah, it's about Women's Studies, that's it. Sure, cuz racking up $100k in debt is a really really good idea and I don't want you to know that. LOL. Women's Studies is just an example of an uneconomic soft major that mixes poorly with debt. PLenty of other examples exist too.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 3 years ago

The debts and subsequent defaults should not occur in the first place. I believe that we all benefit economically from a society that is well educated in both the hard and soft sciences. Unlike you, I believe that for every dollar each of us contributes towards educating our fellow citizenry in the balanced manner I put forward above each of us reaps a positive economic benefit and therefore have a positive return on our investment. The collective investment changes everything.

[-] 1 points by Censored (138) 3 years ago

You'll just bury the failure in government and then declare success. At least at college age, there's no better judge of value and merit than the student him or herself. It certainly isn't some bureaucracy in Washington mindlessly writing checks.

Our current generation has no idea about any of this, but the next will be fresh with great lessons about how to not be so stupid.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 3 years ago

Failure is your presumption, it's not necessarily the reality of the future.