Forum Post: STUDENT LOAN ... demand these bills pass-H.R. 2028 & S. 1102
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 6:22 p.m. EST by Christy
(62)
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Please, please- make the demands clear to the politicians (they may actually choose to help us). Please make one of the demands: 1) Return bankruptcy protection rights to students -for student loans. Ask the pols to pass H.R. 2028. This bill will allow students to release their loans through bankruptcy.
Private lenders, of which many are predatory, have robbed us of our futures by lending students loans at 12%. These loans ballooned, and now we are all drowning in student loan debt.
nietzsche is an idiot
the whole student loan system is a racket which benefits lenders, schools, and the government. it does not benefit students, although those three pretend that it does.
I was just on with my loan agent today stating that I can only afford $500 a month can we work something out? I am willing to accept responsiblity for my debt, but I was met with "we are going to report this to the credit bureaus" Awesome, so taking responsibility for the debt gets you punished when you can pay a majority of your loan but not the full amount!? Then I asked what year will my loans be scheduled to be paid in full? They responed 2029. I am a teacher and due to retire in 2032. I see no future with this crushing debt and am beyond frustrated. What needs to happend is a National Loan Holiday where all people with student loans don't pay for the month. See how Wall Street and Washington deal with that crisis, it may get their attention.
Are you aware of the loan forgiveness program? It applies to teachers and certain professions that provide "public service."
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When you took out your loans, were you expecting that teacher's salaries would be much higher when you graduated, thus enabling you to make the payments?
Of course, blame the victim, not the company who won't adjust the loan so that she can pay for it.
Its not like they're earning more interest on a loan that keeps getting extended...greedy bastards
So, you didn't know what you were getting yourself into when you borrowed the money? Someone else with their retirement savings invested in a 401k should take a hit because you can't pay what you agreed to.
Fact:
Right now there is millions and billions of dollars in public and private college and university foundations that are invested with wall street for the inflated retirement plan promises of bourgeois professors and administrators that have not given a crap about the cost of rising tuition or the current debt on student loans...
Demand some of that money I say.....
Fact, the cost of enrolling a student in college is much higher than the tuition that student pays. That's what these endowment funds are for, the money they make goes towards subsidizing student expenses.
Really? I've been looking at colleges for my child and the prices are ghastly, many charge $57,000/ year for tuition, room and board. If it really costs more than that we're in bigger trouble than I thought. How can educating a student cost that much? It's indefensible. This is the only country where the prices of higher ed are so out of control.
Both Public and Private student loans have become a trap! Many people went to school to make a difference in their community and their country and what they did was end up drowning in high interest debt that they can never get out of. There are cases of people that have actually ended their lives and left the country because of the fear and harrassment. Lazy people dont generally go to college and study so I doubt any of these people expected to live on easy street with a degree but the majority of college degrees are worthless anymore just like the majority of houses. So what is that telling other countries about us. WE capitalized our own people out of a future and we have worthless educations and cheap houses without any equity! For those of you who think youre such an awesome person that you didnt get in any trouble with debt just wait its coming in one form or another this is just the beginning of a downward spiral. No one to afford products= no jobs karma is a you know what so watch how you treat others.
People if your going to establish common ground with the rest of the 99% your going to have to stop talking about student loans. And, I had one, took me 20 years to pay it off, but I finally did. But, most people don't want to hear these sob stories. It's like the guy on the news who says he hasn't been able to find a job for 2 years. No one believes that. What he means is he can't find a job where his degree program will be a qualification. People want guys like that to quit whining and get a job at Pizza Hut or something.
I fully understand people spent all this time and money on a dgree and the day you graduate the economy is in the shitter. Do whatever you need to do to support yourself and your family, but trying to get most of America to feel sorry for you is not going to get you or the movement anywhere.
No one is forced into student loans, but the terms of the loan are often misleading. Think about it, many students applying for undergrad are only 17 or 18 years old and probably do not have a lot of experience negotiating. Elizabeth Warren really nails the problem when she talks about educating the consumer. Unfortunately many aspects of education, similar to healthcare, is about making money.
If a bankruptcy was not protected, a bank must make a decision whether to lend or not (ie: how risky is this borrower? will they be able to maximize their investmen tin college and pay off their debt?) thus at ever bank interview, the loan officer will be thinking 'is this guy stupid?' would it be elitist to bar stupid people from taking loans to make themselves smarter?
Colleges get these huge money piles from corporations. They should drastically cut down how much it costs to go to college or make it free. Community college or job training should at least be free.
Student Loans should be forgiven given that trillions of dollars went to banks. Total student loan debt is around $1 trillion. If forgiven, economy will start growing faster than any job plan currently lost in the political arena.
There should be total forgiveness of student loan debt; this would stimulate the economy!
Student Loans should be forgiven given that trillions of dollars went to banks. Total student loan debt is around $1 trillion. If forgiven, economy will start growing faster than any job plan currently lost in the political arena.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for the student loan interest rate to be 8% or higher while the banks are getting billions interest free!!!!! Especially now that the federal government took over the program!
I do think there should be more regulation with student loans.
People here are spending more time arguing with each other rather than trying to sympathize. Whatever the reason, student loans are hurting many people and something needs to be done. Just because you paid yours off and are in a better situation, doesn't mean you need to respond to every request.
Sadly, when the crisis hit this time, a lot of students were not aware that they might get hit with job losses that would make paying their debts that much more difficult. So, yes, there are different kinds of problems. Sadly too, unpaid debts are what have led to the financial crisis--along with unfair and unethical lending. Loans which can't be reasonably paid, should not be offered in the first place. It is unfair however, for the banks to get bailed out--and not others who've been forced to default on loans through difficult circumstances. Students may need to find other ways to repay their debts. Bankruptcy is already a legal option, but not necessarily something one wants on his or her financial resume.
You can't bankrupt student loans.
Not all but some. However no individual should get into this situation--regardless of the form of debt...Avoiding getting there is what this occupation is about--for the individual and for the institutions that have the power to make a difference.
this is not very responsible but how responsible were the banks? If we are after equality then students should get a bailout too.
The vast majority of bailout money is being paid back to the Government with a profit attached. I guess you feel that you deserve free money because you're such a nice person. You need to get a grip on yourself. It costs money to use money.
how do you know this? unless you work for the Fed, how would you know? Even then with all the printing going on and one buddy paying another buddy, or at least making it look like the transaction took place, how would you know? Why did the Fed print 600 billion over the Summer then? Basically, these losses are being passed on to you and I. The government is the boy who cried wolf too often. I'll believe it when I see it.
I guess you don't read newspapers or watch the news detailing the extra billions that the government made when the money was repaid. The problem is not with the bailed out companies that paid their loans back with interest. The problem is that the Government did not return the money paid back to the treasury, they just gave it away as stimulous to create or save government employee jobs. Then they spent more on top of the repaid money. That's why they keep printing more and more dollars.
Stimulous money is not used to create any private sector jobs, just government jobs.
But what about the untold Billions loaned by the federal reserve to these various institutions to cover their positions? That money won't be paid back by them. You'll pay it back with inflation.
no i don't read newspapers or watch fox/msnbc/cnn(the governments media) Apparently, you believe these sources. But anyway, I'm not advocating more irresponsibility. I'm just saying if the system were an even playing field, we could all be irresponsible and there would be no consequences. Free market capitalism allows those who are irresponsible to fail. Therefore, this is not about capitalism and those who are in special positions will be taken care of by the government. I am not in that fortunate group.
Exactly! Its the people out on the street who should be getting a bail out, not some company.
Why not demand regulation and price controls for the actual universities that charge these outlandish prices?
Anyone who takes out a loan to go to school needs to be aware of why tuition is so high (it did not used to be). You can enter any school into this search field. I have entered the University of Michigan, which is quite typical:
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/databases/salaries/university-of-michigan-ann-arbor
THAT is where your money is going and why so many have to go into debt to go to school.
National Student Loan Holiday- December 2011
All peoples with student loans do not pay in the month of December.
See how Wall Street and Washington deal with that crisis.
And maybe we will be able to buy gifts for our friends and family during the holidays
That sounds good to me, but my private lender will only report me to the credit agencies, and they will start calling me. Last time I was late on my private student loan payment, they actually called my landlord- (that is illegal)- but they do it anyway.
How about refinancing at prime lending rates? That seems fair being that when students contracted, they were under the assumption there would be more gainful employment available to pay these loans off. Set it up similar to the home loan modifications.That would seem more reasonable for starters. I haven't read the proposals but I would imagine this would seem more acceptable to many. There is a trillion dollars or so out there in guarantees.
i don't understand the s.1102 one.
Student loans were bundled with risky debt along with the housing industry.
Can they do anything about the interest rates on student loans? I consolidated and lost benefits because of that. I am not allowed to go to a lower interest rate. I need that. I found a lump and lost my job right when this thing crashed. I didn't die, but student loans added over $11,000 to my student loan in the time that i was unemployed and my hands are tied. They don't budge. (more like there's no front door...doesn't exist. my credit counselor at the bank said she can't get anywhere with them. attorneys have told me the same.) I'm scared to look at it now (still unemployed).
I would go back to school, but who can trust that now? I need relief. I can't afford to be alive anymore. I at least need a way to lower the interest rate. They're killing me over here.
I've heard that they are lowering interest rates on housing, and it's not costing them anything because the interest has been lowered, but why can't we do that to consolidated student loans also?
Bankruptcy should be a last resort option. People kill themselves over this stuff. There's a point where bankruptcy is more reasonable than alternatives.
no one is forced into student loans, so no one is being "robbed" or anything. you are being held accountable to terms that you agreed to.
if you could write off student loans in bankruptcy getting loans would be nearly impossible.
generally the more difficult it is to recover property on a default the higher the lending standards. (its easy to repo a car, so people will lend 15k to people with marginal credit. a motorcycle is very difficult to repo, so getting a 7k loan requires very good credit).
you get no financial recovery from someone that doesnt repay student loans, which is probably part of the reason they stay through bankruptcy.
if you could wipe student loans then every 21/22 year old would declare bankruptcy fresh out of college, ride it out till they are 32, right about the time they are making enough money to purchase their first home anyway. they dont pay a cent, it didnt really effect them too much, but the bank took 20k (or however much) in the rear. this would be the case for the vast majority of student loans, which means the standard would sky rocket.....how many 20 year olds with 820+ fico's or parents that have 5k for a student loan down payment do you know?
ultimately people need to remember two very important things.
1) a degree does not grant the right to work. for the vast majority of degrees they are little more than marketting tools. if you fail to market yourself properly through your degree choice, thats on you. if you DO market yourself properly you are still on the hook for the loan. not benefiting from your investment does not void your responsibility
2) unless you are physically or mentally incapable of doing so, you can have your college paid for. join the service. serve the country that you want serving you. hell, the new GI even pays E5 BAH (housing pay) based on the housing rates of your home address. infantry requires a GED (which can even be waived), so its not like this is an option thats only available to a small group of people, so this whole argument about "getting screwed" over student loans is really quite ridiculous.
Taking away Bankruptcy protection from these loans caused what?
A ballooning of Education cost inflation even outstripping the rise of health care.
You want to know what will happen when these rights a returned. Kids will be turned down for loans. Kids wont have bottomless pockets anymore. So in return schools will be forced to lower their price requiring less of a need for these loans.
If there is no check there is no risk. If there is no risk you end up with a year of school costing you 100k a year (2020).
Oh and by the way if you have not noticed, jobs paying minimum wage now advertise as Degree required. Aint that some shit?
Nietzsche- I am a woman over the age of 40. I can't join the service. I went to college for the first time at the age of 30! I thought that was the practical thing to do. I didn't have parents to help me with my education. This is a very serious situation for a lot of people. I am doing my best to hang on- but I am losing hope.
I do not think students take out loans with the intention of not paying them back! While there is no mandatory interest rate limit for student loans, it is awful to think how many students have been exploited through middle men involved in the loan process. The work and money for education is meant to be an investment for the future not a jail sentence.Unfortunately it is almost impossible to pay back loans at 15% especially, if there are no jobs available. The reality is we do not want to see huge default rates and therefore it would be in everyone's best interest to come up with a program or modification for those who are unable to pay back their loans at this time.
There already is... There are various repayment plans available to us.
These repayment plans are essential to a debt that can not be discharged.
But what about private student loans? They carry the same non discharge status yet there is no payment plan, there is no capitalized interest limit.
Those are the ones that need to be reformed. It is like any other unsecured loan a bank gives.... and should be treated as such.
I agree 100% about your comment on private loans!
I just dont buy this whole "exploited" bit. Whether someone works directly with a lender, or they have 500 people in between them and the ones actually approving the loan, at some point the person receiving the funds signs an agreement. They are presented everything from the principal, to the interest rate, whatever, before they agree and legally enter contract with someone. If someone didnt understand the terms or what they were agreeing to, but signed that they not only did, how have they been exploited?
Sure education is an investment in ones future, but like stock investments, there is never a guarantee on returns. Not being able to fulfill your financial obligation is not a jail sentence anymore than any other investment that loses value.
Saying "times are tough so you don't have to worry about your loan or the interest right now" opens pandoras box. what about those people that broke their back keeping to their original terms? what about future loans? what will that do to tuition? who decides when times are better and interest comes back into effect? what if your situation still hasnt improved before then? etc etc
Don't get me wrong, I think the idea of a temporary suspension of loan obligations is a good idea considering our economy. I just see that hurting more than it helps in the long run.
Tuition would drop. Unless you want it to keep rising.
This could be true, but eventually the high interest rates for loans end up hurting everyone indirectly in the long run. For example, the real estate market with subprime mortgages that resulted in the multiple foreclosures, underwater mortgages and now the many who now have a decrease in home value. I do believe that the institutions that provide high interest loans are well aware of the long-term ramifications on the economy, but look the other way when they can make a quick buck. Maybe it is not illegal, but it certainly is unethical.
"the person receiving the funds signs an agreement"
A person that is 17-18 years old. They don't have the mental capacity to fully understand the ramifications of their decision.
We need to stop antagonizing our children and start teaching them about the student loan trap. Providing good courses in finance in high school instead of Calculus (how many of you actually use Calculus every day?) would help immensely.
Seriously, how is it someone's choice to take out student loans for school when most people can barely survive without getting a degree? I'm sick of people saying it's other people's faut they are poor or starving. The fact of the matter is a very small percentage of people are poor because they are lazy. Damnit I served in the military, in school for Electrical Engineering and my wife is a high school teacher. We live off of about 40k/year for 2 of us. While we are better off than a lot of people, we are still poor. You can kiss my ass if you think we are poor because we are lazy!
First off, thank you for your service. I didnt say this person or that person is lazy and thats why they are where they are in life, so really not sure if you were responding to my comment. Also not implying that if you get a degree you should be making X and if your not then its somehow your fault (in fact, thats quite the opposite of what I was saying).
Having said that, saying you can "barely survive" without a degree is ridiculous. Food. Water. Shelter. To have those is to survive (and the shelter portion is dependent on environment, in most areas in the country its not an absolute necessity). The couple on the streets that doesn't know when their next meal is, the ones that don't even remember what fresh/clean water tastes like....THOSE are people that are "barely surviving". Now give your $40,000/year to that couple and see what they could do with it. See if they consider themselves barely surviving. So take the canned "trying to survive" crap somewhere else.
And pursuing a degree is 100% a choice. No one sitting in a lecture hall right facing starvation if they fail their next math class. In many occupations, yes, a degree is a basic requirment for the industry (science, medicine, etc). But there are many jobs and entire career fields that dont require a degree. You can get your CPA without ever stepping foot in a classroom. You can land a job in IT with an A+, MCSA (or whatever they are called now), or take the fast track to a 60k/y starting job with a CCNA. Someone with similar credentials and a college degree has an edge over you, sure, but that degree isnt absolutely required. Many industries consider experience equal to education (usually looking at 4 years experience = AA, 6 to 8 years experience = bachelors). Like I said, in many cases a degree serves as more of a marketing tool than anything. And once you land a job experience trumps what you learned in that econ class 3 years ago. So, again, a degree is far from required. It serves to help you get closer to a life style that you feel is adequate.
If you can't afford your desired life style but you still have food on your plate, you are not poor.
You are a rude idiot! A person risk their life for your freedom and your talking down to them. Youre a damn fool you owe this military man your life and your complaining about him wanting to have a degree worth what he paid for it?! I know all about politics I have a masters in it and you are ignorant! Student loans are a scam and yes students were tricked and blindsided. Get off this page and go fight in Iraq you communist!
Brah, you need 150 undergrad credits to sit for the CPA exam. Justtttt so you know!
Reading my previous post I did go on a little rant and got off topic, so I apologize for that. You seem to not mention that our society is becoming even more technologically advanced. The more we automate everything the less we will need skilled labor and the more we will need people with technical degrees. If we leave it forthe market to decide, costs of these degrees are going to continue to rise until most people cannot afford them eventually. You have to realize that under a debt based system, there will always be losers regardless of a person's capabilities. I don't know what you do for a living, but if there were 300 million of you living if America, we would still have an unemployment rate of 9%. And same goes for 300 million of me. The problem is systemic. It's not even about who is the strongest or the smartest or the hardest working anymore. It's more about what kind of lifestyle you were born in that determines the opportunities you will have. How can't you see that someone born into a wealthy family has many more options than someone born to an inner city family?
So I still stick to my point that in a growing society, getting a degree is not a choice anymore and people who were not born into wealth are at a huge disadvantage. If you look at the production in America, productivity in agriculture and manufacturing has grown exponentially while workers in these fields has decreased exponentially. If these things are getting cheaper to produce, can't we use this technology to gradually give people a little more. After all, there might be one man who owns a certain business, but that technology has been slowly developed off the backs off people since the beginning of mankind. Just think about that for a minute please... You are not alone in your thinking and I used to think just like you before I stopped and thought about it. The market, under this system, will create poverty FOREVER! I
And from your last statement, your logic says that if someone can eat, but is living beyond their means, than they are not poor? So how about the guy who doesn't live beyond his means, but can only afford food? What the hell is he?
**EDIT: Didn't notice your first sentence and your appology until after I posted response. Sorry if I am coming off as an ass too, got a lil defensive :)
I didnt mention technological advancements because we are not yet at a point where you are not a marketable asset unless you have a high degree of technical expertise. Hell, I don't think it will ever get to that point. As far as increased costs of technical degrees: costs rising to the point that most people can't afford it assumes supply doesnt adjust as well. If supply isnt increased to meet rising demands, then yes the cost goes up, but supply would (and does) increase, which lowers the cost. Rewind to 1970, you want a degree in computer programming. What are your options? Stanford? Handful of other "upper crust" schools? Compare the costs of that education to the cost of taking an evening object oriented programming class at your nearest community college today. (Again, would rather not go any further down the cost of education path)
As far as sticking to your "degree is necessary" theory, hey, stick with it. I get where your coming from, I see your logic, I just think the logic is flawed. I know many people that havent set foot in a classroom since high school that are doing very well for themself, so in todays world, needing a degree is factually incorrect. Thats not to say that its going to change in the future, which is what it looks like you are basing your logic on. So today your logic is flawed, tomorrow I could be eating my words.
I don't ignore or dismiss the fact that no one in America truly "does it on their own". Everyone in this country has benefitted from the work of people before them. Whether it be a fallen soldier that gave his life so we can have these talks, or the person making minimum wage that paved the road the CEO uses to get to his private jet. Everyone is connected. Those that have benefited most from "it" (call "it" whatever you want. luck, hardwork, fate, blabla) do invest back into society. The better off they are, the more our progressive tax system takes and gives to society.
I also don't doubt for one second that there is a difference between where and how you grew up. Yes, people that are born into poverty are at a disadvantage, but someone having an advantage over another person growing up does not mean they will stay ahead up that person through adulthood. And visa versa. Yes, it is much harder to come up from the bottom, but it can be done. If you absolutely need a degree to rise up from poverty, military service is available to everyone able and willing.......being unwilling does not make one disadvantaged. Thats a conscience decision.
There will always be people at the bottom. I dont know of any free society that can prevent this, but considering the alternatives I would take American society over any other....even if I end up one of those people at the bottom.
What do I call the guy that lives within his means and can only afford food? Making it.
At the beginning you were talking about supply increasing according to demand. While in perfect economy this will happen, in the real world it is either way behind or never happens.
For example, in the health care field there has been a shortage of nurses for several decades. The market has caught up, somewhat, but even today hospitals are fighting each other to find competent nurses to do the job. Nursing pays a hell of a lot of money so why wouldn't people more people go into nursing? Because you actually NEED a degree and many people are discouraged because of the extra debt that comes along with going to school. Of course those people don't want to live beyond their means and be able to eat too (obviously poking fun at your earlier statement, but just a joke).
But in all seriousness, this is a common problem we face in America. We test the market without a degree and face a high chance of never rising above lower class, or we take a chance on getting a degree in order to get a good job. Sometimes people get burned by going for the good job, which I might add is in demand, and end up in debt for most of their lives. These are the type of people that are just a product of a shitty system, who didn't do anything to deserve their hardships. This is the type of issue I would like everyone to pay more attention to. Just because someone got a "useless" degree, the market failed them and they are stuck without opportunities doesn't mean they should have to live a life of servitude for an endless debt.
"poking fun at your earlier statement, but just a joke" tis all good :)
I'm not trying to say that there aren't industries where you must have a degree, no exceptions. Also won't disagree that a degree (depending on what degree, they are not all equal) does give an advantage, but I stand behind it not being a requirement for success. Should one choose a career where a degree is an absolute requirement, then yes, there is risk involved.
Though I do feel for those in trouble with student loans (again, I write this with the interest on mine growing, and have yet to see any return on my investment), I still feel that is a risk that people willingly enter into, and have the option to mitigate. If it doesn't work out for them that doesn't mean its their fault, very well could just be the product of a shitty system and not warranting of hardship, but like every other type of investment there is no guarantee on return. It is still a risk.
I think the cost of higher education is beyond ridiculous and one could argue that the risk is fast becoming too great, but if someone signed that line they took a calculated risk.
Though I like the idea of having some type of forgiveness mechanism in place, I see that very quickly A) getting abused on a massive scale, B) drastically increasing the costs.
I think most (if not all) of this animosity is better served attacking the institutions that are continually raising tuition and making the cost of education higher than it needs to be. Outside of poor management (which isnt a valid excuse) I don't think many school can justify the cost of their services, yet its getting more and more expensive. Rise against the school, not the lender.
The beast is what ends up eating you, the lender just feeds it.
I will bet dollars to donuts that you do not have a student loans. Anyone who does not have any student loans is not allowed to comment on those who have student loans. I do not want my student loans forgiven...but I would like the interest to be eliminated. The government should not profit off my attempts to become a productive citizen/ tax payer.
I had $200K in student loans and I paid it all back with interest and without complaining. I knew exactly how much I was borrowing and the interest rate before I signed on the line. Anyone who can't do the same probably should reconsider if college is for them.
Paying back $200K at a 4% interest rate would require you to pay about $2,500 per month if you want to pay it back in 10 years. And about $1,800 a month in 20 years. This would mean that you are making at least $8K per month...paying little or no rent...and basically ate Ramen noodles every night. Whatever the case may be...good for you...but some of us are not that fortunate.
I paid it off in 8 years. I realize I am very fortunate but my point was that I had a plan to pay it back BEFORE I took the loan. I took a loan to get a degree (dentistry) that I was confident would provide me with a steady source of good income. Too many people get a degree for the sake of getting a degree with no thought to the future. People who go to a private school using loans to get a degree in something like philosophy is setting themselves up for economic ruin. Yet people do it anyways. It boggles the mind.
The issue now is that those jobs that would allow us to pay back our loans are not there.
I have friends with Degrees in Engineering to Law School with out employment. They work temp jobs at 10-15 an hour with sporadic hours.
The economic situation is nothing like it was when you graduated. Jobs are far between and the ones our there are part time and at low pay.
Well said. There simply are not enough jobs for all of us. The banks are profiting from Those students who took out those huge loans to better their lives. In this unique situation, the loans should at least be dischargeable (that way, the student can at least have that protection behind them). I know people that had to put off buying a house or starting a family due to their student loans.
Well...not everyone is cut out to be a dentist, lawyer, etc. I can appreciate your well planned education and current occupation. However, you are passing judgement on someone's choice about what field they chose to study. This is not a good place to begin an honest debate. The crux of the debate is that business' have been getting preferential treatment from the gov't by getting these bailouts...and the regular "Joe" is getting the shaft...it's that simple.
It is not so much about their choice of major. It is what they choose to pay for it. There is nothing wrong with a community college.
Colleges and our government policies are also to blame. College loans are the only loans you can get without collateral or at least a plan. Think if someone went to a bank and asked for a $150K business loan for an as yet to be determined business and without a well thought out plan for repayment. That is what happens to 18 year olds every single day.
The corporations should have never gotten bailed out. Two wrongs does not make a right though.
Mooks- I am a woman over the age of 40. I can't join the service. I went to college for the first time at the age of 30! I thought that was the practical thing to do. I didn't have parents to help me with my education. This is a very serious situation for a lot of people. I am doing my best to hang on- but I am losing hope.
Agreed on all points. The system is flawed. I am not sure how to fix it...but we cannot adopt apathy...sitting around and doing nothing is worse than protesting the current system.
I would never pass judgement on someone's choice of which field to study. As a huge fan of knowledge and an educated populace, I encourage everyone to study whatever fields are of interest to them--the more the better.
I will, however, pass judgement on stupid financial decisions, such as borrowing $100K to study something such as philosophy which, even in the best of job markets, is not going to pay enough to enable one to pay back the loan.
Whenever this type of conversation comes up...people always seem to pick on "philosophy" degrees. The degree itself is not useless...it is what people choose to do with them. There are many doors opened with a philosophy degree...today- more than ever. Bio-Ethics, Corp Ethics, and even legislation is based on the work of a philosopher. I guess you may be thinking that I have a degree in philosophy - I do not. But I can appreciate someone who has one...since philosophy has given birth so many of the other fields that exist today. Let's not bash anyone who had chosen a degree...no matter how useless it may seem to you. I know people with law degrees (even judges) who are currently out of work.
/sign
If you didn't want to take a government loan you could have sought other sources. And the people funding your loan with our money do have a right to comment. If you don't want my comments, don't take the services my money pays for...
That's not a good argument. I am suggesting that the INTEREST ON THE LOANS be removed or lowered...or utilize simple interest instead of the daily compounded interest. Is it right that I borrow $50K and have to pay back $180K? Should the government profit from my efforts to become a contributing tax paying member of society?!
Borrowing money costs money. I believe you thought the return on your investment was going to be worth the cost of the loan. You could have worked until you had the savings needed to pay for your education. I have taken many loans and paid them off. There are many, many other loans I didn't take because of concerns about how I would pay them off. I wouldn't give you a loan for free. Consider why schools can charge so much for your education; perhaps the availability of so much easy money. If the product doesn't sell at the full price, for whatever reason, the cost will be reduced. Having taken a loan to overpay does not make me or other who provided the cash responsible for your inability to weigh the risks/rewards associated with the transaction. If the lied about the term of the loan, you have a number of options available.
There is no debate about the fact that borrowing money costs money...the debate is how much should it cost? However, the crux of this debate is...why do banks and corporations get off paying their debts at the cost of the taxpayer?!
Politicians opened the door / forced lenders to take on more risk. Borrowers took on loans they couldn't afford / didn't understand / failed to pay back. I don't want to bail out banks, or people live beyond their means. I don't want a government that allows / legislates irresponsible behavior. Why should a bank be forced to make a loan they don't believe in; why should people or businesses be allowed to receive loans they can't repay. Let the banks and corporations fail. Force the government to get out of the way. If you want to help someone, help them, but don't take my money to do it - let me make my own choices.
"Why should a bank be forced to make a loan they don't believe in"
They're not forced to give out loans... In fact Joe Banker is wringing his hands at the prospect of luring another clueless 18 year old into decades of unforgivable debt. They make money for having money...and that deserves a government bailout? That's MY money, and I want to choose where that money goes!
Fuck. Yea.
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I suppose once you get on your feet and start saving money you are going to tell the bank to lend your money to people and forget about giving you any interest. You're going to put money into a 401k for your retirement but tell them you don't want any interest or dividends so that someone else can use your money for free. Get a life already.
You people really make me sick! Well, he's not on his feet now and needs help now. Funny how fast you'll change when your pension checks stop or retirement savings are wiped out when one of these banks or other corporations declares bankruptcy.
I do have student loans. Logos -1. Ethos -5. Knew I couldnt afford school so joined the Army. Once GI used (holy jesus online schools are ruhdonculously expensive) had to fund through personal loans. Still in school, so still paying and watching the interest grow. But I knew this would happen when I signed up.
People that don't have loans cannot comment on those that do? Logos -15. Pathos -5. Ethos -1.
So those that paid off their loans aren't allowed to say "you can pay it off, I did, suck it up"? Soldiers that gave years of service to have their school paid for can't say "I found a way, why didn't you? Suck it up"?
Interest isnt fair. Logos -5 I don't want there to be interest on my loans either, but my bank didn't call me out of the blue one day and say "Hey, we are modifying the loan you agreed to, you are now paying interest". I knew the terms, rates, and conditions before I signed my name and took on the responsibility. If I have a problem with it later...well....that sucks for me.
The basics of a loan. I give you money today, you pay me tomorrow. Until you pay me back in full I am going to charge you a bit of money, since, you know, I'm taking a risk here. Getting paid for that risk is the only thing that keeps me interested. Hey! We can even call it "interest"! Perfect.
"The government should not profit blablablabla". Logos -1 The "profit" the government sees services the program its self. Theres not some government hack at the end of the line putting your interest payments into his pockets. Its immediately pushed back into the system, so that the kid that graduated high school two years after you can have some of that money too. Any of your interest that would otherwise be profit gets eaten by continually rising cost and attendance. It costs you 5k to get your degree today, it costs your little brother 5,500. If you (and everyone else in your class) pays each dollar 1 for 1 the structure fails (I am not arguing for/against the cost of education, thats a totally different debate, simply illustrating that due to variable costs, if the return is not greater than the principal then it doesnt work).
You are singing the same sad song that many people in this organization sing, so assuming you share their beliefs is logically sound. Being affiliated with said organization, one that preaches fairness, understanding, and equality, then turning right around and telling someone that they cannot think or say something based on what YOU have decided is valid criteria: Logos -200.
That "we are all equal, except in this instance I am more of an authority than you because of X" is also a -500 hypocrisy hit.
Me: Condescending tone: -5 ethos. -10 pathos.
Using a totally made up ego-component rating system to cast judgement on someone else: -100 logos - 50 pathos, ridiculouslness -5000, saying ridiculouslness -900 grammar/spelling/English
Spending this much time making a retarded reply that no ones going to read anyway: no point loss, I have to live with myself, thats bad enough :)
Not adding everything up, lets just say we both equally suck and call it a day. Cept you do still have that hypocrisy hit. That stays on your record.
Obama has proposed giving student loan debt collectors access to cell phone numbers
http://consumerist.com/2011/10/obamas-debt-reduction-plan-includes-letting-debt-collectors-robo-call-cellphones-to-collect-on-gover.html
I agree. Amen, my Friend!
sub cat for congress bills
I don't want to file bankruptcy. But if they can eliminate the interest on the loans...that would be SUPER COOL!
a woman (representative, but i don't remember where exactly) was on cspan or some government channel talking about lowering interest on some of these underwater houses and it wasn't costing them anything to go to a lower interest rate because they were able to borrow at a lower interest rate also. these student loans were bundled with the same risky loans as the housing industry. i don't see why we can't get the interest lowered on our consolidated loans? you evidently lose benefits when you consolidate. but, why can't they change that to something more reasonable? given that they are doing it with houses that were in the same bundling as student loans and they didn't think they were losing money on that?
Many people have over $100K in student loans from private lenders. They may need to file bankruptcy. They expected to get better, higher paying jobs. I know someone that committed suicide over his student loans. He was a lawyer- married w/two kids.
Sallie Mae was his lender (private student loans). He lost his job, and the interest and fees mounted and mounted. He couldn't pay his mortgage. He committed suicide. My loans are close to $50K. My payments are $359 a month, and growing. I expected to be earning more money. Now, I am drowning in student loan debt, and private lenders to give you hardship deferments or unemployment deferments.
What type of job were those people expecting to get where a $100K loan would be manageable? Even before the 2008 crash, the average starting salary for someone with an undergraduate degree was $33K. This is what is called a really stupid financial decision.
yup. i've considered suicide over student loans MANY times. i imagine its a matter of time given that they add to mine faster than i would ever be able to pay. my spouse already gave them his inheritance from his mom. they just added over $11,000 in the first two years i was unemployed. I'm scared to look now. i found a lump and went through radiation...lost my job right when this crashed. VERY difficult to find a job now. i never made it to the house. i wanted to invest in a job first. but even that doesn't work here. you don't even have to die, but if you get sick in this country, you lose your insurance and your job (livelihood).