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Forum Post: State of the Union: A Corporate Takeover and a Military Takeover of Justice

Posted 1 year ago on Feb. 13, 2013, 12:25 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic (5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Not a Peep About Ending Wall Street Monopolies, or Monetary Reform

I wonder why?

Maybe it's due to the fact that Wall Street funds politicians.

And Bernanke just walks the footprints of Greenspan, as Citi loots the treasury, and no criminal prosecutions for HSBC, Goldman Sachs, Well Fargo, etc etc.

What happens when Goldman Sachs funds both sides? Bush picks Paulson and Obama joins Congress in passing TARP.

What happens when Citi funds both sides? Obama picks Lew and republicans and democrats in Congress fail to pass any real reform on the banks.

What happens when Boeing and Raytheon lobby Congress? They get billions in war profiteering.

What happens when KBR lobbies congress? They get billions in war profiteering.

Not a peep about stopping the provisions "allowing" them to indefinitely detain or even kill Americans without trial, evidence, nor oversight. There have been so many false allegations throughout the history of the CIA this is insane to trust them with such a high illegal authority. Khalid El-Masri is an example of an innocent person accused of being a terrorist. He ended up getting tortured for 4 months until the CIA figured out he was really just a random innocent guy from Germany. This is not acceptable. This is why we have laws and court systems; to prevent the innocent from being imprisoned and killed. This kind of lawlessness is inexcusable, especially when saying "a decade of war is coming to an end." Obviously this is a lie. Just like the signing statement was, while 3 Americans were killed that year and Bradley Manning was being indefinitely detained.

NOT A PEEP ABOUT THE FACT THAT OUR CONGRESS IS BOUGHT BY CORPORATIONS AND BANKS.

Not a peep about a constitutional amendment to reform campaign financing.

This is the state of the union: a corporate takeover.

Dylan Ratigan said it best, "We’ve got a real problem…this is a mathematical fact. Tens of trillions of dollars are being extracted from the United States of America. Democrats aren’t doing it, republicans aren’t doing it, an entire integrated system, banking, trade and taxation, created by both parties over a period of two decades is at work on our entire country right now." -funded, corrupted, and manipulated by the elite 1%

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127 Comments


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[-] 4 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Re. The SOTU - 'What Obama said and what he meant about Climate Change, War and Civil Liberties', http://www.nationofchange.org/what-obama-said-and-what-he-meant-about-climate-change-war-and-civil-liberties-1360772856 & also please refer to http://www.nationofchange.org/obama-s-state-union-address-calls-middle-class-revival-poverty-and-inequality-still-get-short-shrift .Thanks for the Rattigan quote at the end of your post. Democracy in the USA is in deep, deep trouble! Never Give Up! Go Occupy! Solidarity.

[-] 5 points by gsw (2879) 1 year ago

People must wake up before its too late

http://www.cusdi.org/problem.htm

Many problems for people to solve. We must unite on this.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-would-a-new-constitution-say/

[-] 8 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Thank you for these good but intricate links which will take some time to read and absorb, which I will endeavour to do and then revert, although I have been very busy lately. In the meantime, please see - http://www.nationofchange.org/big-bank-immunity-when-do-we-crack-down-wall-street-1363098432 & I quote - 'The Wall Street gang must really be partying these days. Profits and bonuses are as high as ever as these super-rich takers were able to use trillions of dollars of below-market government loans to get themselves through the crisis they created. The rest of the country is still struggling with high unemployment, stagnant wages, underwater mortgages and hollowed out retirement accounts, but life is good again on Wall Street.'

Never Give Up Exposing The Venal Financiers! Occupy Wall Street! Solidarity.

[-] 3 points by gsw (2879) 1 year ago

Good current info for the people in the article. Very good. http://www.nationofchange.org/big-bank-immunity-when-do-we-crack-down-wall-street-1363098432

However, if they know that government will back up the bank if it gets into trouble then investors have little reason to properly evaluate the risk. This means that more money will flow to the TBTF bank since it knows it can undertake risky activities without paying the same interest rate as other companies that take on the same amount of risk. The result is that we have given the banks an incentive to engage in risky activity and a big subsidy to their top executives and creditors.

If it turns out that we also give them a get-out-of-jail-free card when it comes to criminal activity then we are giving these banks an incentive to engage in criminal activity. There is a lot of money to be gained by assisting drug dealers and other nefarious types in laundering their money. In principle the laws are supposed to be structured to discourage banks from engaging in such behavior. But when the attorney general tells us that the laws cannot be fully enforced against the big banks he is saying that we are giving them incentive to break the law in the pursuit of profit.

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Moral Hazard and Regulatory Capture are what you so effectively describe I think and for more insights into this, see - http://www.nationofchange.org/where-s-cop-wall-street-beat-1365599175 . Never Give Up! Occupy Wall Street! Solidarity.

[-] 4 points by gsw (2879) 1 year ago

The ruling elite don't go to jail

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Why don't 'the ruling elite' go to jail? For some further insights into their crimes and the danger to us - http://www.nationofchange.org/winner-takes-all-super-priority-status-derivatives-1365860752 Never Give Up Exposing The Avaricious 'Elite'! Occupy The Issues! Solidarity.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good comment. Good analysis.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

The link has no solution.

"We urgently need a solution before we reach the point of no return—if we cannot solve the Problems then we have past the point of no return."

http://www.cusdi.org/problem.htm

I agree with their perceptions of the problem.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2879) 1 year ago

National initiatives: The solution would be people could tell government to f*ck off when they overreach, via democratic initiative, such as in citizens united, or they could end war on marijuana, or curtail drones. Or stop xl pipe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiatives_and_referendums_in_the_United_States

http://www.cusdi.org/amendment.htm

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

They have no strategy & no plan to get federal level initiatives. It is a good idea, BUT free speech MUST be unabridged first.

If they want national initiatives, they need to work for ART5.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2879) 1 year ago

besides the free speech amendment, how are we going to get unabridged free speech.

you have the same catch 22, to get your unabridged free speech....how shall we have unabridged free speech when those with those with money and media, who are happy with their private corner on speech, are happy with a pay to play free speech.

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Demand ART5 and preparatory amendment. Ending the abridging of free speech is the first preparation. An increasing number of Americans are not doing "partisan" and are creating a new politics that pivot in constitutional intent. One has written a draft of a revised first amendment. Here it is.

REV. Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; Congress shall see that nothing abridges the freedom of speech and the primary methods or systems of it shall be first accessible for the unity of the people with its possible greater meaning through understanding one another in; forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Congress shall see that nothing abridges freedom of the press in its service to the unity of the people; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances or defense of this constitution.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13204) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

They've jammed your brain pan man.

  • Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That is the current text - and really no editing need be done.

You can't legislate love, tolerance, peace, or forgiveness. You can't. People have to come to that on their own. They say that because we have so much difficulty with love, tolerance, peace, or forgiveness we were given the law - in the form of ten small precepts, which later were summed as being products of only two:

  • love God
  • love your neighbor

and we can't follow them either, so a whole industry was born - several in fact.

Lawyers Guns and Money, Hey!

So that's what they do - they jam up your brain pan, and spin you off in on a false trail. It happens. And it isn't your fault. It isn't right and I do hate them for it. I'm pretty sure God does too . . .

[-] 2 points by gsw (2879) 1 year ago

If we could encourage caring and cooperating, over competing and selfishness.

Things we'd like for our kids to exhibit, then they encounter the real world, the opposite.

These are artistic and humanitarian, or "spiritual" non monetary pursuits, which are antithical to our programming and culture, current views on making a living.

Some we could legislate... Better Living wage, universal health care, basic shelter, access to healthy food.

As well as better access to information, and access to political dialog, more free speech of non corporate candidates. Some of these could lead to a more compassionate society, if we would value every life, not just the most rich and their voice and decisions.

Maybe we need to figure for ways towards this in states where people can agree to such values,

If we had more public tv and news sources, non corporate, maybe provided and "paid" for by public universities, with bottom up discussion on any issues of common agreement for the betterment of humanity.

But even the public universities are following the corporate models.

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

These human attributes are already implicit to the constitution.

If we could encourage caring and cooperating, over competing and selfishness.

By revising the 1st amendment to include commonly understood behaviors that are the most positive humans have, social goals are created that promote aspirations to manifest them motivating better and better cooperation.

I need to emphasize that when the abridging of free speech is ended, and the public learns what's been going on, it's going to be a lot easier to see what you say happen.

Some we could legislate... Better Living wage, universal health care, basic shelter, access to healthy food.

Dealing with war and the economy, tools of manipulation, is going to seriously improve those vitals a good bit. Then runaway technology in the hands of corporate sociopaths feeding fantasy techno evolution needs to be addressed.

Somewhere around that point, we could realistically begin to reach for "sustainable".

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Check your your brain pan.

ZenDog wrote You can't legislate love, tolerance, peace, or forgiveness. You can't."

It already is legislated by implication in the Declaration of Independence with, Life. liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

All communications which protect Life. liberty and the pursuit of happiness. are logically, constitutionally promoted.

What is false about that?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13204) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

It looks like you are depending on how you feel about words, rather than what they actually mean.

Lets take LIfe -

I have a life, if you take it that is murder.

Liberty

I have liberty, if you try and take that I will fight you for it, by any means practical.

The pursuit of happiness -

This is not a single word, but a phase, and begins to blur the boundary some what, but it too, is something that is not a feeling or emotional reaction or a choice, but rather an act, one that can be curbed. We do not enshrine happiness itself, rather in the Declaration we acknowledge that it is the right of human beings to seek happiness, and that this right is natural.

Forgiveness -

If I offend you you have a choice, to forgive or not to forgive, it is no one else's prerogative to determine for you how you will choose. You must decide that for yourself. Each of us face this dilemma all the time.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

A semantical analysis of the words defining goals is not needed.

What is needed is a direct appreciation of speech which inspires forgiveness, and other positive human attributes. This is a prime element of peace. Do you support that we have a peaceful world?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13204) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

the reality does not support the assertion that we have a peaceful world, but I do assert that it is an admirable aspiration. It is what we must strive for.

It is written:

  • To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven . . .

We must understand the words that articulate our goals, else we cannot articulate those goals to others. If no one understands the meaning of peace, then the word has no meaning.

I can be at peace within myself, yet that does not make a peaceful world. I cannot make others make peace within themselves. That they must do on their own. Until all men desire peace within, there will be war.

Until all men are just, there will be injustice.

  • No one is free while others are oppressed.
[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

The greater meaning of free speech is that it can create peace. Human attributes which inspire peace need promotion, least they be forgotten and the continuity of life ended.

So it is not legislating, it is setting forth principles, as a constitution of a republic does.

And, they are already reasonably implied so this draft of a revision of free speech is fully constitutional.

REV. Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; Congress shall see that nothing abridges the freedom of speech and the primary methods or systems of it shall be first accessible for the unity of the people with its possible greater meaning through understanding one another in; forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Congress shall see that nothing abridges freedom of the press in its service to the unity of the people; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances or defense of this constitution.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by gsw (2879) 1 year ago

"nothing abridges freedom of speech". .... You have this now. , or what would be different

"primary methods ... Shall be first accessible". Tv? Print?

"for the unity of the people" in what way?

"with it's possible greater meaning through understanding one another" ok, that could be good

" in forgiveness, tolerance,acceptance, respect, trust .....protecting life" Sounds ok

so basically we are being falsely divided because we don't have complete understanding, Which congress encourages.

We should seek common ground and mutual understanding , that's what we're attempting here, where we are against false divisions.

Better freedom of speech is good.

The founders wouldn't have been for false divisions.

It is people, who want to divide themselves, part of their nature, to seek difference, in this culture,

So you seek to enhance what unites us as a species of people. That would be good.

What does unite us?

Freedom, improvement of selves and others, health, human needs, education, knowledge.

It is the wording of the proposal that ought to be enhanced, that we should strive to understand what unites humanity, and what humans need, and to speak for and seek the betterment of our existence. Sure, that would be a good proposal IMO.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Hey, good questions, some I'd asked myself in the beginning of learning all the most promising ways to create change that the people DO control. Revising the 1st seem sacriligious when I first encountered it, but after realizing what's been done with the dumbing down and the media, I opened my mind to some simple facts which outline the biology, natural law of our constitution.

"nothing abridges freedom of speech". .... You have this now. , or what would be different.

If you say it is not abridged now, you do not know its purpose. You are not alone, very few Americans do.

"primary methods ... Shall be first accessible". Tv? Print?

Yep, and the usenet is brought back to the public interface.

"for the unity of the people" in what way?

You can't have missed this. -forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.- Ideally in all those ways. Those are some of the best traits human beings can have. Good parents teach them to their children naturally. We are civilized enough to agree on this and now the ambiguity and HOW of free speech is to be incorporated directly into the 1st amendment.

"with it's possible greater meaning through understanding one another" ok, that could be good

Damm right! The corporate divisions created to build shallow loyalties have created a myriad of divisions which really, I mean REALLY, must be overcome if we are to survive and evolve.

" in forgiveness, tolerance,acceptance, respect, trust .....protecting life" Sounds ok

You are getting it. These principles guide our political interactions towards collective decisions that really make sense. Now democracy can actually work. It runs on opinion, which runs on information, which runs on -media- oops! Revision of the 1st amendment fixes that because the public would have a very direct path to national, prime time, lower 13 channels to share information.

Network currently are required to give funds to PBS, public access studios etc. Which is basically a waste. Implimentation would be fair and reasonable as judged by the peers of those submitting 1st amendment requests.

so basically we are being falsely divided because we don't have complete understanding, Which congress encourages. Big time:-)

We should seek common ground and mutual understanding , that's what we're attempting here, where we are against false divisions.

Awesome! You get it. Yes right here with this exchange of posts. Let me spell it out more explicitly. We are forming a detailed agreement upon the intent of our constitution relating to freedom of speech, which certainly begat all the concepts the constitution invokes for social contract. Fundamentally we are agreeing that the purpose of free speech, its meaning to us as human beings generally; is that information needed for survival be shared and understood.

We are contemporaries with similar information regarding -what information needs to be shared and why it is not-, and what is instead disseminated to the public, and has been for decades. In that we know the dumbing down prevents a lot of direct understanding. We recognize that in that perceptually weakened state, false icons can mislead those looking for direction. We know the structure of money controlling media and information.

With all of that we can recognize that our informed agreement becomes an authority, AND, because it relates to the primacy of the constitution, it is law. When this kind of agreement is made within constituencies of states and they seek to use the agreement officially, symbolically, in defense of the constitution, or maintaining states that will defend and enforce it, to purify state legislations towards proper conductance of ART5, then we are completely out of the box of politics corporations and partisan usurpers of the constitution built for us.

gsw wrote: Better freedom of speech is good. The founders wouldn't have been for false divisions. It is people, who want to divide themselves, part of their nature, to seek difference, in this culture, So you seek to enhance what unites us as a species of people. That would be good. What does unite us? Freedom, improvement of selves and others, health, human needs, education, knowledge. It is the wording of the proposal that ought to be enhanced, that we should strive to understand what unites humanity, and what humans need, and to speak for and seek the betterment of our existence. Sure, that would be a good proposal IMO.

Agreements upon our needs, from the greatest to the least, and knowing the difference.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2879) 1 year ago

"is that information needed for survival be shared and understood"

We're trying to do that, speaking of gmos, fraking contamination, protecting air and life.

Can we gain more freedom of speech without an amendment? To the ends of enhancing the coman good?

Were supposed to have that now, as I understand our nations purpose of foundation. It's just been misappropriated by corporations and money

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

No, but we can bring more meaning to the speech we do have.

Can we gain more freedom of speech without an amendment? To the ends of enhancing the common good?

That meaning equates to our agreement on what is good. When it applies by law to amending the common contract, and constitutional intent is basis of all law; we are the only ones that can define it because it is only defined by our agreement.

So my friend, simply by pursuing your end of this discussion, you are bringing more meaning. Here is how-

As you show your understanding, others can consider your interpretations of what you understand as you agree, and find ways themselves to accept and agree. When it means something to more people, in the case of democracy, there is a great potential for more meaning they may all know and benefit from.

Were supposed to have that now, as I understand our nations purpose of foundation. It's just been misappropriated by corporations and money

Correct, hijacked. And, in the 100 years since 1911 when 2/3 of the states had applied for an ART5, we can be sure state legislations are infiltrated with people that may try to deny these constitutional principals.

The states are the entities which have authority over the federal constitution. However, the 99% must be unilaterally informed upon constitutional intent, then ALL authority under it switches to the people because they show the people of their states -what constitutional is- by petitions upon the state legislations.

A lot of bridges need crossing, but by talking to all the people we would never normally talk to, and talking about this potential of creating our own political environment with absolute authority through clear, concise legal pressure created by constitutional agreement, we can begin.

We automatically have political power because we agree on what benefits all of us in the spirit of the constitution and go to the states reps with a fairly unified position showing that "the people are the rightful masters of the congress and the courts".

This would naturally be consistent with state constitutions and reasonable to exercise on a regular basis.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2879) 1 year ago

Can we gain more freedom of speech without an amendment? To the ends of enhancing the common good?

For instance, within a state, or at the state level, to allow for increased no corporate media, possibly via universities, that would share critical information necessary for our increased knowledge of pertinent issues which increase the common and individual good, such as healthier food, water, conservation of energy, and general information, such as political information.

Do universities have media capacity, and access. There's some radio.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

I've tried, and corporate control, including non profits are cutting us off.

Can we gain more freedom of speech without an amendment?

They do it with money/power, an unconscious lure, which is pervasive to our society. Also insidious, clamoring for self acceptance while ignoring serious issues in distracted spasms of society. Note dem and repub conventions for mainstream social in that regard. Local peace/justice/environmental events are dominated by the mainstays of the status quo with a conforming image.

The universities are infiltrated too. Academia was the first to go down in a serious way, then media replaced authority of knowledge with social popularity. The local university radio in so cal is dominated by socialist groups that conform to democratic social norms to a tee.

All looking radical (image) but as conforming and fearful as the nwo needs them to be in their divided, manipulated generational group.

Accordingly, naturally, the constitution is the meeting ground for the 99% because needs/demands, must be met and the principals are there. they are the law of the land. America, the melting pot - the Magna Carta evolved into the constitution and we will not survive to evolve if we allow it to fall.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Good read. Thanks for the link. Reminds me of my outbursts every time he hit an applause line.

"That's why my administration has worked tirelessly to forge a durable legal and policy framework to guide our counter-terrorism efforts." - The president just said killing and imprisoning Americans via military force without trial and evidence is legal.

[-] 4 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

It's extremely sad just what poor shape the rule of law is in the USA and we all should be alarmed at the situation. For evidence, please see - http://www.nationofchange.org/america-s-global-torture-network-1360422384 - from which, I excerpt - 'The unalienable human rights endowed to all by their creator—declared as a universal right in our Declaration of Independence—were replaced by the “dark side” declaration of Dick Cheney, quoted in the opening to the torture report: “We also have to work, through, sort of the dark side, if you will. … We’ve got to spend time in the shadows in the intelligence world. … It’s going to be vital for us to use any means at our disposal, basically, to achieve our objective.”' The solution? Restore the Bill of Rights! Never Give Up Exposing Illegality! Occupy Ethics! Solidarity.

[-] 2 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Federal units ca be created through ART5. With preparatory amendment ART5 can only serve the people.

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

The corporate take over of the US is very well exposed here - http://vimeo.com/24981578 as 'Inside Job' explains the 2008 financial crisis so very well.

Please see - 'Inside Job, Behind The Heist' : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuyrBRUsu9A & also - http://www.nationofchange.org/viral-video-shows-extent-us-wealth-inequality-1366729910 .

Never Give Up Aspiring To Democracy! Occupy Wall Street! Solidarity.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

What's even crazier is Cheney's policies dating back to '92 that talks about war for resources and keeping the dollar on top, ensuring the USA is the number one economic power.

And 70,000 troops are amassing in the Asia Pacific.

we should be focusing on self sustaining communities. I need to focus more on that too.

[-] 5 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Which means an ongoing 20 year imperial campaign for global hegemony, with self-defeating austerity and delapidation at home. Who really gains from all this war? NOT the 99%, that's for sure! I would also refer you to - http://www.nationofchange.org/drone-wars-doj-legalized-death-squads-and-secret-courts-1360852525 Never Give Up Trying To Restore Basic Ethics! Occupy 'The Bill of Rights'! Solidarity.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

War is the enemy of the poor.

"The rash of home foreclosures, mounting job loss, the collapse of banks and the financial services industry, the poverty ripping apart the working class, our crumbling infrastructure, and the killing of Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians with fragmentation bombs converge. The costly forms of death we dispense on one side of the globe are hollowing us out from the inside at home." - Chris Hedges.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/war-is-the-enemy-of-the-poor/

John Brennan's appointment just shows how corrupt the system still is. Thanks for the link.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/john-brennan-the-liar-and-propaganda-artist-now-he/

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

'War Is The Enemy Of The Poor' - and never was a truer word said! The current POTUS, despite all his sweetness and light prior to being elected for his first term, is following his predecessor with the same policies. Please also see - http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_WAR_POSTURE?SITE=IADES&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT Never Give Up Exposing Warmongers! Occupy Peace!

[-] 4 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

"Occupy Peace!"

Solidarity my friend

~Odin~

[-] 4 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Thanks, good links. Many people who have not been there do not realize what a beautiful state New York is. Having spent close to 20 summers traversing the waterways of NY when i worked on the 'boats,' I know its beauty, and a lot of its history.

Much of the forests in the Adirondacks were clear-cut in the 19th century causing major problems with flooding because there were no trees to absorb the rains and spring run-off along the northern reaches of the Hudson, and Mohawk Rivers with sections of both of those rivers being part of the Champlain, and Erie Canals respectively.

In the old days barges, and tugs used to sit at the wall in Troy for weeks waiting for the high water to recede, so that they then would be able to traverse the canals safely, and like any good boatman at the time, they spent their nights in the bars cavorting, and getting hammered. Unfortunately for me...lol, i arrived on the scene a bit late, as the new growth was well underway, hence flooding was not near as bad. Anyway it was from these lessons learned the hard way, that different environmental practices, and regulations were put into effect long before environmentalism became a concern in most places.

It is also a fact that many of the regulations that New York enacted to protect its fresh water supply exceed and predate those of the federal EPA. Some people believe that the reason that NYC pizza is so good is because of the water which mostly comes from these highly protected reservoirs in the Catskills. And I believe that NYC still holds the distinction of having the best water of any major city in the US. My point of course is, to endanger this great source of healthy water by allowing fracking would be totally irresponsible.

The Climate rally was a good chance to see activism budding which is a phenomena that is taking place world-wide. While there are probably some differences in approaches between the groups who sponsored the event, they were put aside for the day. All the speakers said some really good things. They put Obama on notice too, and as the NY Times pointed out today, he is under enormous pressure, from environmentalists, big business, and from the conservative Canadian government....and there is little room for compromise. It's an either/or thing.

Here's looking at you too :). You're a great addition to the forum

~Odin~

[-] 4 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Thanks for your knowledgeable, interesting and comradely reply and I attach this article in return - http://www.nationofchange.org/keystone-xl-pipeline-wrong-message-wrong-time-wrong-place-1362410925 . Never Give Up On The Environment! Occupy Our Life Support Systems! Solidarity.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

As i said before the proposed pipeline is where we have drawn the line in the sand

As the NY Times pointed out there is no room for compromise. It is an either/or thing, and Obama is under enormous pressure from the environmentalists on one side.....and the fossil fuel industry, and the conservative Canadian governement on the other side.

We'll see

Errr..just noticed I'm getting repetitive in my old age lol

~Odin~

[-] 5 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

When it comes to the pipeline, brave people are increasingly putting their own bodies on the line.

'At the same time the anti-fracking activists were halting work at the New Jersey construction site, roughly 150 angry citizens were refusing to comply with the designated “public comment period” at the Delaware River Basin Commission’s public meeting. They were calling out representatives of the commissioners, President Obama and governors Jack Markell of Delaware, Chris Christie of New Jersey, Tom Corbett of Pennsylvania and Mario Cuomo of New York, for refusing to exercise their regulatory powers over the Tennessee Pipeline, or any of the other fracked gas pipelines which would cross the Delaware River.' - from -

http://www.nationofchange.org/texas-appalachia-putting-our-bodies-line-1363353406 ,also see http://www.nationofchange.org/keystone-pipeline-safe-climate-change-state-department-says-1363361465 .

Never Give Up On Our Habitat! Occupy The Environment! Solidarity.

[-] 4 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Replying here. Another courageous young lady who stood up to the corrupt $ BS that is thrust upon us as facts. Thanks.

Solidarity A4C!

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Thanks A4C...all great links

Perhaps when people have a portion of their savings confiscated, they will wake up

I will continue in my never-ending efforts in waking people up both at the Jersey Shore with my hybrid flyers (10-25 left at businesses & libraries every week), and in NYC with the wonderful, courageous people in Occupy

Soon tho..., I will be taking my campaign on the road to Alaska, as i have done in the past, this while visiting family there this summer

Some of my flyers have even made it to Sarah-baby's hometown of Wasilla....;-)

~Odin~

[-] 5 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Here's another view into the corporate takeover of the US - http://www.nationofchange.org/koch-brothers-pursue-control-media-1366645787 & solidarity to all your good works. Good luck in NJ, Alaska and everywhere. Never Give Up! Occupy Wall Street - Occupy All Streets - Everywhere! 99% Solidarity!

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

When the corrupt political class ignore the facts, and hence their constituents' well-being

The people in turn tend to ignore them, and that is an increasingly good sign of the health of the people

Good links, thanks.

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

The Kochs are primary agents of the deep corruption within US politics today and please also see - http://www.nationofchange.org/koch-exxon-funded-scientist-challenged-students-climate-denial-event-1365601643 Never Give Up Exposing The Corruption! Occupy The Issues! Solidarity.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Replying here. Having the Koch brothers buy the Tribune Co. is just one more little obstacle for us to overcome

Although our task may seem daunting at times, our numbers are great. The oligarchs power will be matched by an awoken, PERSEVERING populace who has or is suffering the detrimental effects of the corrupt policies that they pursue

This will happen when the strength of exponential growth kicks in with alliances that are constantly being formed between grass-roots groups and individiuals

Never give up - Solidarity

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Replying here. As i said the other day Obama is just one more in a long line of Presidents who has sold us out to corporate and banking interests

Seeing how he has effectively lowered Social Securtiy for millions of Americans combined with a lot of other BS, I hope people will awaken to this fact

I never will give up A4C. Thanks for the good link & Solidarity Forever

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

'Jack Lew, Obama's Treasury secretary, is leading the administration's doublespeak on austerity. In Europe, he's told political leaders to lighten up on austerity measures. But in America, Lew is telling Congress to endorse President Obama's proposals to cut earned benefits for vulnerable Americans who need them to survive, even though Social Security doesn't contribute to the deficit. Lew is also a pawn of the corporate and financial string-pullers, coming from Citigroup before his years in the Clinton administration's division of budget. He was even guaranteed a bonus by Citigroup if he was able to secure a "high-level" federal job.'

'The corporations running our government want our public resources, too. The White House is currently mulling a proposal to sell off the Tennessee Valley Authority, which FDR's New Deal established as the nation's largest publicly-owned power company. Privatization of public resources is one of the key austerity measures being forced by the European Union right now, particularly in scorched-earth economies like Greece and Spain. Privatization of public resources, the selling off of a public good for corporate profit, means that the people who depended on that service are usually subject to frequent price gouging, while under the thumb of an unaccountable private corporation.' from my link above and two others that are very relevant here -

http://www.nationofchange.org/winner-takes-all-super-priority-status-derivatives-1365860752 +

http://www.nationofchange.org/bi-partisanship-we-don-t-need-president-offers-cut-social-security-and-republicans-agree-1365607635

Never Give Up! Occupy Wall Street! Solidarity :)

[+] -7 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

john brennan is a muslim, converted to it years ago in saudi arabia.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Is that a problem for you?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I've been told they keep women like animals

[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Not all 1.5B Muslim. Those that do must be pressured not to. (but not with war & droning)

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

Saudi Arabia specifically keep women like animals

kind of like, the US specifically bombs other nations

[+] -4 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

it certainly is as is should be for anyone that in not interested in a totalitarian govt.

[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Your Lie filled propaganda site comment has been removed. LOL

Here is an article that disputes your bigoted views of muslims.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/world/benghazi-citizens-rally-in-support-of-us-291868.html

Whatta ya think? Maybe not all Muslims are evil?

[-] 5 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

All Muslims are not only NOT evil, they are some of the best people that I personally know.

~Odin~

[-] 4 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Hallelujah, Some sanity, and reasonableness to the rescue.

Every religion (every organization) always has fringe extremists. We must resist the bigoted reflex to generalize, demonize entire grups.

In fact if we are to ever declare this phony war on terror over and emerge from this 12 year fear induced debacle we must start be ending the fear mongering anti muslim propaganda.

Thanks

[-] 5 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Muslims are like anyone else, they simply want a chance for a better life for themselves, and their children

I will never forget the big gathering of the different GA's in the tri-state area last spring in Central Park

It was very heartening to realize that OWS had not slept the winter away

Anyway, I came across these people who looked like they were of northern European ancestry like me

Spread out on the lawn around us were, anti-xenophobic posters and literature pertaining to the plight that Muslims are going through

I asked them about it, and they told me that they were there in support of their Muslim neighbors in Queens

I teared up when I heard that

And Thank You.

~Odin~

[+] -4 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

the site is filled with lies? check out the stories for yourself. http://thereligionofpeace.com/ stevens was gang raped , tortured and murdered. the president did nothing to help him . the benghazi compound was bombed druing the summer. stevens was supposed to be kidnapped , but the muslims didnt get the memo.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Put the hateful bigotry aside. The election is over, the dishonest Benghazi tactic failed because smart people did not believe FOX news.

Here is an article that disputes your bigoted views of muslims.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/world/benghazi-citizens-rally-in-support-of-us-291868.html

Whatta ya think? Maybe not all Muslims are evil?

[-] -3 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

you really ought to learn how to read, i NEVER mentioned the republicans.

[-] -3 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

i havent mentioned the election, YOU seem obsessed by it. vqkag2 by any other name is still vqkag2.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

You mentioned Obama and the repub Benghazi campaign tactic.

You lost man. It's over. Let's focus on pushing policies and discussing issues that might improve the lives of the working/middle class.

Obamas problems must be addressed by us protesting and pressuring him and ALL politicians.

[-] -3 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

it isnt about fox , its about complete dereliction of by obama. ever hear of taqiyya? you have not looked at the site.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Election is over. Give it up. Try something else.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Huh? Muslim conversion = totalitarian govt? I disagree.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Do you think Bush knew about it when Brennan was overseeing all the torture from the CIA?

Are you going solely on rumors for your information.... or... or... do you have facts? Because I'm guessing you have nothing.

Also Muhammad Ali and Dave Chappelle are Muslims. Cool guys.

[-] -3 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

verified by john guandolo

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

not to be confused with fact. Because none have been provided.

[-] -2 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

do a search on his name,.......you'll get the facts. anyone thats a muslims is not cool,..stupid, YES, cool, no.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

blind prejudice is a method designed by arrogant fools.

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Some Links that apply to post:

http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175361/ Tomgram: Chris Hellman, $1.2 Trillion for National Security, by Chris Hellman, March 1, 2011. (an oldie but a Goody)

http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/2-3-trillion-missing-pentagon-funds-and-other-major-media-cover-ups-2479648.html

Here are some old points that are still Goodies. Did you know that:

-Twenty leading journalists, including winners of several Emmys and a Pulitzer, have described being prevented by corporate media ownership from reporting riveting stories on major cover-ups.

-BBC News has exposed plans of the U.S. military to “provide maximum control” of the Internet, as detailed in a declassified secret Pentagon document signed by a former U.S. Secretary of Defense.

-Government documents released through the Freedom of Information Act show that the top Pentagon generals once approved plans to foment terrorism in major U.S. cities and even kill innocent civilians.

-A CBS News report quotes former U.S. Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, “According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions.” That’s $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America.

Each Point seems to have Links to further articles (click link for)

-A highly decorated US General wrote a book titled War is a Racket, which clearly depicts how he was manipulated, and how most wars are waged largely to keep the coffers of certain big corporations filled.

  • The former chief of a prestigious medical journal has revealed that the total profits of the ten drug companies in the Fortune 500 were more than the profits of the other 490 businesses combined.

  • Declassified CIA documents open to the public leave no doubt that through hypnosis, drugs, and electric shock, secret mind control projects created super spies, terrorists, assassins, and more.

  • 3,000 respected leaders, including government officials and professors, have publicly expressed harsh criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report. Many even allege government complicity in the 9/11 attacks.

But hey look at the genocide brought on to Native Americans in Canada and the USA .... there is no apology or responsibility taken for cleaning up government, police, prisons, churches, the Vatican, Drug Companies, Foundations, the Medical Profession who used drugs, vaccines, diseases, or surgical techniques on minorities knowing they would suffer or die, and investigations into the rape, murder, slavery, and human trafficking going on to this day.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-bipartisan-panel-us-war-crimes-excessive-secrec/


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425

The bad news didn't stop with swaps and interest rates. In March, it also came out that two regulators – the CFTC here in the U.S. and the Madrid-based International Organization of Securities Commissions – were spurred by the Libor revelations to investigate the possibility of collusive manipulation of gold and silver prices. "Given the clubby manipulation efforts we saw in Libor benchmarks, I assume other benchmarks – many other benchmarks – are legit areas of inquiry," CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton said.

price-fixing scandals involving both Libor and ISDAfix suggests a single, giant mushrooming conspiracy of collusion and price-fixing hovering under the ostensibly competitive veneer of Wall Street culture.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425?page=2

Lanny Breuer, FBI, Balks at Prosecuting UBS for LIBOR.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2240) 1 year ago

know this, there is no way to win here ... It is too late and noone but us cares many people live happily as slaves they find it comforting being told how to live and who the "bad guys are" they don't want us reminding them they are not free...where could we possibly go from here...it is gone you are not free anymore get on the debt treadmill and enjoy sacrificing your life for a corporate elite...that's what slaves are born to do you can fight it while getting strapped and hanged by your shoulders ir you can pretend you are free and try not to think too much...but you are going to lose, all that matters is can you live withyourself taking it, accepting this is your fate to live life as a slave? If you fight know this the stress will kill you if you dont eventually get labelled as a terrorist organization by corpirate America for protesting your little brave heart out trying to stifle their business and daring to fuck with the money. "Don't fuck with the money" you will pay. Can't fight city hall, nor Goliath...thdy own the world. Where can you go from there I am at a true loss how can you possibly fight something so large? Only with lots and lots of people but frankly I think I finally realize about two percent of the population seeks true freedom, the rest just pretend they are. Does protest work in the absence of Democracy????

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13204) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

A Corporate Takeover and a Military Takeover of Justice

that simply cannot stand if this nation is to remain of the people, by the people, for the people.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 1 year ago

Serious Threat to Asian Economic Model

Sunday, 21 April 2013 11:14 By Martin Khor, TripleCrisis | Report

http://truth-out.org/news/item/15863-serious-threat-to-asian-economic-model

Many articles and books have been published on the contrast and competition between the present Western and the Asian-style economic models.

Western countries are said to have the free-market model based on competition among private firms, with the government taking a hands-off approach.

East Asian countries are branded as practising “state capitalism” in which the government plays a major role in helping the local private sector and the state also fully or partially owns many enterprises. The Western countries are increasingly attacking the Asian model, claiming that state-owned companies or state-aided commercial firms have an unfair advantage vis-à-vis the foreign firms competing with them.

In our region, countries with a substantial role of the state include China, Malaysia, Vietnam and Singapore. Of course, in Japan and Korea their domestic firms grew to become world-beaters with the systematic backing of their governments.

For these countries, the so-called state capitalism (or in the case of socialist countries, market-oriented socialism) have worked well through industrial development and relatively high and sustained economic growth.

Some Western countries have been trying to curb or even eventually eliminate the Asian model of state-owned or state-aided capitalism. Of course this is largely hypocritical because the America, European and Japanese agricultural sectors are highly subsidised and protected; many of their farms could not survive without massive state aid and high import tariffs.

Many of their banks and industrial firms are also subsidised in various ways, including through the recent multi-billion dollar bailouts in the wake of the recent financial crises.

This has not stopped these countries from attacking the Asian model. The latest attempt to curb this model is through the negotiations in the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA), a trade and investment treaty involving the United States, Canada, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Brunei, Peru, Chile, Australia and New Zealand.

The TPPA contains an important section on State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs), championed by the U.S. and Australia. The TPPA drafts are secret, so the text of the SOE section is not known. However, it can be anticipated that the section will contain disciplines to curb and shape the behaviour of three types of SOEs. The recently concluded United States bilateral FTAs contain a competition chapter that deals with two types of SOEs. For example, the US-Peru FTA has disciplines on designated monopolies and state enterprises, and it is likely that the US will propose something similar in the TPPA.

That FTA says that government monopolies shall act solely in accordance with commercial considerations, including with regard to price, quality, availability, transportation, when buying or selling the monopoly good or service.

They shall provide non-discriminatory treatment to investments, goods and services of other TPPA members. And they shall not use their monopoly position to engage in anticompetitive practices through its dealings with its parents, subsidiaries or other enterprises with common ownership in a non-monopolised market that adversely affect the investments of other countries.

State enterprises shall similarly provide non-discriminatory treatment in sale of goods or services to investments of other countries. More importantly, the US and Australia are proposing a third type of SOE to be subject to disciplines. According to press reports, Australia has also introduced the principle of “competitive neutrality” to discipline the SOEs.

How this principle will apply can be anticipated from the Australian government’s competitive neutrality guidelines.

This is based on the concept of a “government-owned business”. The state-owned business enterprise which competes with private companies may obtain advantages, impeding the ability of the private sector to compete on equal terms.

According to the Australian guidelines, these advantages include exemptions from taxes; cheaper debt financing (because of the low-risk classification or government guarantees); absence of need to make a commercial rate of return; and exemption from regulatory constraints or costs.

To offset these advantages, the Australian guidelines cover how government businesses should pay taxes in full; pay back to the central government the difference in their loan costs vis-à-visprivate sector loan costs; pay license fees equivalent to the central government; and ensure that they obtain a commercial rate of return. It is likely therefore that the draft of the TPPA will have disciplines along the lines above on a third category of SOEs, government-linked business entities involved in commercial activities that compete with the private sector.

The proposed disciplines could be along the line that “advantages” enjoyed by government-linked businesses such as those mentioned in the Australian guidelines be disallowed.

The implications for Malaysia, Vietnam and Singapore would be serious because their national economies are characterised by important roles of state owned enterprises or government linked companies.

The countries would have to move away from their successful development model and economic structure.

Moreover, SOEs have many functions including providing social services to the public, ensuring that poor and vulnerable groups are given special consideration.

This often means that SOEs cannot operate on solely commercial grounds; and that several of them depend on government subsidies and assistance, and there are also cross-subsidies in that the profitable aspect of an SOE may finance non-profitable (but socially important) activities. There is a danger that the TPPA section on SOEs will prevent or hinder the socially useful functions of SOEs. The proponents of the SOE section argue that foreign companies are not able to compete fairly with SOEs. They want the TPPA to remove or reduce the “advantages” of the SOEs.

But that could threaten the survival of the system that has helped propel the East Asian model, a creative and dynamically changing mixture of state and market.

The TPPA negotiations are still going on, and a text on the SOEs section is not yet final, so there is scope for the different views to be expressed.

Much is at stake, and it is important for more information to be made available on the negotiations, including on SOEs.

This Piece First Appeared on the Third World Network

This piece was reprinted by Truthout with permission or license.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

CNBC: Morgan Stanley, BoA, Goldman, JP Morgan all at multi year highs.

Banks are charging full ahead because they got Dems and Reps under the their palms.

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

No peep about wall st monopoly corp takeover because the Wall st 1% oligarchs own our govt.

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

ART5 driven by constitutional intent will deal with it.

OCCUPY CONGRESS

Articulate the many usurpations they have seen or sherparded into governmental policy.

Demand ART5 NOW! Because it was dutifully required of congress 100 years ago. Only by the non feasance of congress has America gotten to where it is.

Demand ART5 with preparatory amendment; end the abridging of free speech, reform campaign finance, secure the vote-ALL before ART5 in order to assure constitutional intent.

Meanwhile . . .

See if you can get one active duty soldier to even consider defending the constitution from a domestic enemy by using LAW. This WILL get the job done IF soldiers can do their duty,

http://algoxy.com/ows/soldiersinquiry.html

Occupy needs to support and articulate what the soldiers are doing when they do this, and why they are doing it.

[-] -1 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

"an entire integrated system, banking, trade and taxation, created by both parties over a period of two decades is at work on our entire country right now.""

both parties. we can't forget this.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

Nope.

WallStreet.

You already forgot.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Wall Street's takeover of government. Funding corrupt politicians in both parties to pass their fraudulent legislation.

From the GLB act to Monetary Policy. The list goes on.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

I will believe you, if you show me right here, right now, the Democratic equivalent of emergency managers.

Extra points for showing the Democratic equivalent of "forcing" whole States full of teachers to teach creationism.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

TARP GLB NAFTA WAR

War. War. War.

Teaching Americans that bombs are solutions. Murder and indefinite detention without trial.

Even Bernie knows the Congress is controlled by Wall Street... when are you going to wake up to this truth?

Look I fully agree with you that republicans are morbidly corrupt. But I also know for a fact that wall street and elitist funded lobby groups control our government, both sides.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

Not the same thing.

I've been awake and aware of Wallstreet's malfeasance since the 70s.

Show me what I asked for.

For extra points, show me the Democratic equivalent of the John Birch Society too.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

War is the enemy of the poor.

I showed you already. Reread all of my posts if you still don't understand.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

It always has been an enemy to the poor, no matter what society they may live in. The US is not the sole proprietor.

Back to the subject.

No, you didn't show me what I asked for.

Not any of the three.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

apparently you don't think mass murder of civilians in the name of war profiteering is bad. I do. Therefore I do not support any pro-war candidates. Nothing you say will ever get me to support someone funded by Goldman Sachs that also bombs countries.

apparently we have different moral guidelines. You make excuses for why you have to support warmongers funded by Goldman Sachs, I do not.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

Don't put words in my mouth trevor. I didn't say any of that and you know it.

I just asked you to answer some logical questions, to prove your point.

Would you care to try again?

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

don't give me that. Your entire point is based around supporting democrats. Which is why you phrase the questions the way you do.

You know who you voted for and you, like everyone, needs to take responsibility in how you vote. You vote for someone who voted for war, you voted for war too.

You also know I deplore the republicans and call them out for their guilt. Maybe read this post where I include them in being at fault for the corporate takeover. They are literally the right hand in it.

I think voting for war is just as bad as being in the John Birch Society. War is the enemy of the poor. I do not support any organization that is pro-war. Bombs should not be confused with solutions.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

You missed my point entirely.

I'd imagine you've dragged out refusing to answer the questions this far, so as to take any validity away from them.

I'm talking state issues and you can't get anywhere near them.

[-] -3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

we've talked state issues.

I told you last week about how in my city/state democrats and republicans and the justice system are selling us out to realty companies, big business, banks, bogus drug laws, banks etc... also told you I'm working on a campaign to get someone in city council district 3.

[-] -3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

the only question you asked was

Care to try again?

And I gave you a response already. Democratic equivalent to John Birch Society - "I think voting for war is just as bad as being in the John Birch Society. "

[-] 2 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

Still not an answer.

Do you misunderstand what a question is?

I'll try one last time. In order.

1.) Show me the Democratic equivalent to emergency managers.

2.) Show me the Democratic equivalent to forcing teachers to teach creationism.

3.) (for bonus points) Show me the Democratic equivalent to the conse(R)vative John Birch Society.

[-] -3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Not a Peep About Ending Wall Street Monopolies, or Monetary Reform

I wonder why?

Maybe it's due to the fact that Wall Street funds politicians.

And Bernanke just walks the footprints of Greenspan, as Citi loots the treasury, and no criminal prosecutions for HSBC, Goldman Sachs, Well Fargo, etc etc.

What happens when Goldman Sachs funds both sides? Bush picks Paulson and Obama joins Congress in passing TARP.

What happens when Citi funds both sides? Obama picks Lew and republicans and democrats in Congress fail to pass any real reform on the banks.

What happens when Boeing and Raytheon lobby Congress? They get billions in war profiteering.

What happens when KBR lobbies congress? They get billions in war profiteering.

Not a peep about stopping the provisions "allowing" them to indefinitely detain or even kill Americans without trial, evidence, nor oversight. There have been so many false allegations throughout the history of the CIA this is insane to trust them with such a high illegal authority. Khalid El-Masri is an example of an innocent person accused of being a terrorist. He ended up getting tortured for 4 months until the CIA figured out he was really just a random innocent guy from Germany. This is not acceptable. This is why we have laws and court systems; to prevent the innocent from being imprisoned and killed. This kind of lawlessness is inexcusable, especially when saying "a decade of war is coming to an end." Obviously this is a lie. Just like the signing statement was, while 3 Americans were killed that year and Bradley Manning was being indefinitely detained.

NOT A PEEP ABOUT THE FACT THAT OUR CONGRESS IS BOUGHT BY CORPORATIONS AND BANKS.

Not a peep about a constitutional amendment to reform campaign financing.

This is the state of the union: a corporate takeover.

Dylan Ratigan said it best, "We’ve got a real problem…this is a mathematical fact. Tens of trillions of dollars are being extracted from the United States of America. Democrats aren’t doing it, republicans aren’t doing it, an entire integrated system, banking, trade and taxation, created by both parties over a period of two decades is at work on our entire country right now." -funded, corrupted, and manipulated by the elite 1%

[-] -3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

show me a reason why I should vote for warmongers funded by Goldman Sachs.

Republicans = bad. Full agreement with you there on 1 2 and 3.

Like I said, I think voting for war is just as bad as everything you mention.

War is the enemy of the poor. It is the most atrocious side effect of corruption in human beings.

Democratic equivalent to teaching creationism is teaching people that war is heroism and bombs are solutions. Just as bad and damaging as teaching bullshit like creationism.

Being in a pro-war organization is just as bad as being in the john birch society. War violently kills more innocent civilians than anything else.

I do not support republicans. Stop acting like I do. When I say i do not support warmonger organizations, that includes that I do not support the republican party. It also means I do not support the democratic party.

Nothing you say will get me to vote for or support pro-war candidates/organizations funded by Goldman Sachs or other big banks and corporations.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

War loving Democrats make me sick... WE should box em up, and their supporters, to go see what they have done.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

End droning.

Declare the phony war on terror over. That war on Terror is used to justify invasions, droning, massive def budgets, & right violations.

Is it only Democrats that love war?

[-] -3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

they just keep on forgetting about the crack down in Oakland and New York.

[-] -3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

apparently you don't think mass murder of civilians in the name of war profiteering is bad. I do. Therefore I do not support any pro-war candidates. Nothing you say will ever get me to support someone funded by Goldman Sachs that also bombs countries.

apparently we have different moral guidelines. You make excuses for why you have to support warmongers funded by Goldman Sachs, I do not.

[+] -5 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

The Democratic equivalent of the John Birch Society?

moveon.org teacher's unions Acorn Code Pink Hollywood. most college faculties

and of course there are many other conservative groups just like John Birch. You seem to think that all the propaganda and influence only flows from one direction and that is just not the case

[-] 3 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

That's so far off base and off subject, I'll just leave you to wallow in it.

[-] -1 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

I'll take the bonus points anyway. Yoink!

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

okay now you're going too far. Teacher's unions, Code Pink, etc are not the same as John Birch. Especially if you know the history of John Birch Society during the civil rights era.

[-] -2 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

Sorry about that. I was just thinking in terms of pushing agendas. who knows what criteria shooz uses.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Martin Luther King Jr. listed the John Birch Society with the KKK as some of the biggest menace groups to society in his book Where Do We Go From Here.

I support teachers unions. I think it's insane that we pay private security forces in Afghanistan more money than we pay teachers and troops.

You could have listed people who support drug laws. Many people have called the bogus drug laws the New Jim Crow.

[-] -2 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

sorry again. my bad

we need to more people behind the recent bill legalizing marijuana. finally force it through

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Bernie and the congressional progressive caucus votes 90% with Democrats.

Support Bernies efforts to end the Wall st ownership of the peoples govt.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

not to be confused with the actual congress. Bernie also voted for the NDAA of 2013, so I'm not a slam dunk with Bernie on everything.

War is the enemy of the poor.

[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

I am pleased that the relentless protest efforts of UFPJ, Code Pink, JustForeignPolicy, Jobs-not-war, Occupy and other groups and individuals hae forced some slow progress.

We forced the govt to produce the weak legal justification memo to congress, now the public needs to see it so we can sue.

We got a few more votes against indef detention this year than last. We still failed but we will keep fighting.

We have succeeded at forcing the govt to reduce drone strikes in half since 2010. We WILL get that reduced to zero!

We have kept the govt from invading anymore countries!!

We have convinced the govt to seek a 40% reduction in US nuclear warheads!!

We have pressured the govt to remove US Afghan forces from combat this coming March, and pressured them to bring half of our troops home in 9 months.

We must keep up the pressure. Your efforts are the measure, the benchmark, the guide for all of us.

Don't let up. Your efforts and those like yours ARE working.

Thank you

[-] -2 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

Did he bring up the nukes thing last night or did the North Korea incident force a change in plans?

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Yes, and probably not.

See 2009 nuclear weapons cut in Prague

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/05/obama-prague-speech-on-nu_n_183219.html

And don't forget his open mic comment last year about more flexibility negotiating with Russia.

seems the nuclear cut is a long held plan.

[-] -2 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

glad he mentioned it. there was talk he'd omit it from the speech since it might not play well to talk about getting rid of nukes while Lil Kim is firing them off.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

He may get an agreement but the reduction will take years. But to get us down to 1000 warheads (still enough to destroy all humanity) is progress from the hight of 32K in 1966.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

thanks for the good words.

We didn't get all dressed up for nothing. Knowledge is power, the more we know, the quicker we can stop them.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

I'm afraid we will never be satisfied, but I'm willing to fight every military action, & every rights violations.

I say declare the phony War on Terror over. It is the justification for all invasions, droning, massive def budgets & rights violation. It is the lynchpin.

[-] 0 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

I am WE and WE are the government of all one bird. Teaching violence and America can not actually co-exist because no harm intended none done is the law of this free land. Once again I will say WE must remove our United States from this hostage situation going on in so-called capitol. Close WDC and end our troubles across the board it is the killing link which means unamerica and working against everything this country stands for and is meant to be. I will continue in assuming to be as it is alive and well. Now let us get new HQ to operate and leave this madness behind! 50% less taxes too. All One in solidarity Worldwide Freedom...

[-] -3 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

Oh Alec P, you always "forget" that Wall Street owns both parties.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

No you.

[-] -3 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

touche

[-] 0 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Yes another indication that closing down WDC is our best avenue to quickest repair of our situation. Everything that has to do with this made up district is screwing us and we just need to get out and begin elsewhere, like in this country of which it is not!

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

i had no idea that approving the keystone xl this summer was apart of the battle against Climate Change.

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

The pipeline has not been approved. FYI Big protest this Sun!!

Let's pressure all pols to abandon this disastrous pipeline

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/sierra-club-leader-to-risk-arrest-in-protest-against-keystone-xl-oil-pipeline/2013/02/13/86d23d00-75ce-11e2-9889-60bfcbb02149_story.html

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

The southern section got approval last year. Once finalization on rerouting are done, it's northern section will be approved, most likely this summer. It has never been about stopping the pipeline. It's been about rerouting it.

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

I believe the approval decision is upon us (before summer) hence the protest I mentioned. We should certainly act as if it is. We can't wait.

http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/canada-still-hopeful-on-keystone-approval-after-obama-speech

This recent article mentions summer decision as you indicated.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/12/transcanada-keystonexl-idUSL1N0BCDWM20130212

We don't have a moment to lose.

We must get into the streets and stop this obscenity.