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Forum Post: Some comments on Sweden from my friend who lives there

Posted 2 years ago on July 17, 2012, 12:11 p.m. EST by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I recently asked a young friend of mine who lives in Sweden to list his top 5 or 10 things he likes most about living there. Below is his response.

People are not afraid to go to the hospital or visit the doctor because of financial issues. Most people make a descent amount of money even if they don't become filthy rich and there is not a large gap between the lower, middle, and upper class. Basically the lower class in Sweden is like middle here. Everyone has a chance to go to college even without money because it's free and you can take out student loans to pay living expenses. Mothers can take one to two years maternity leave without worrying about loosing their jobs. Everyone has mandatory 6-9 weeks vacation (paid) a year and unlimited sick days as long as you can prove you are sick by getting a doctors note (which shouldn't be a problem). The public transportation is amazing and people of all classes use it (it's usually nice and fresh) and it's only like 100$ a month for an adult to get a metro card that takes you anywhere in stockholm . Once you've spent 130$ at the doctors office, visits and meds are free the rest of the year no matter what ( including ER). That should cover it. Basically you live a stress free life by paying 20% more tax than here.

88 Comments

88 Comments


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[-] 4 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I spent some time in Sweden: mainly Goteborg and Stockholm. Sweden is truly an exceptional country: clean, safe to walk at any time, literally full employment, no homelessness, no widespread hunger.

For those who insist Sweden is simply a small country, able to accomplish what the United States cannot, I reply, size of the country has nothing to do with decent government and generally responsible citizens.

The United States has the highest incarceration rate of any developed country in the world, even more than supposed "totalitarian" states. No, there's something amiss in the United States, and that something is not the workers.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Did you feel that the people themselves were different? Maybe America has attracted the most selfish and the most violent from among the nations.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

In Goteborg, I bought a set of antique spice jars to present as a gift. I'd walked almost all the way home and heard someone calling after me. The person was the shop owner; I'd forgotten one of the pieces when I left, and he chased me down.

I don't believe most Swedes are any different than most Americans, but they don't have the same unbalanced society to deal with that we do.

In Goteborg I met a young woman and her husband. They had a nice little house on the outskirts of the city near the forest. The couple cultivated a beautiful garden in their yard. When I mentioned the high water cost to maintain such a garden, the woman told me that water was considered a necessary provision and no charge was made for personal usage.

Priorities are different in Sweden, as they are in most Scandinavian countries.

[-] 1 points by ronniepaul2012 (214) 2 years ago

Not just attracted. Most are unfortunately, homegrown. Greed and entitlement is not limited to the 1%.

[-] 1 points by ronniepaul2012 (214) 2 years ago

What is amiss is a lack of shared values and morals. To say America is a decadent society doesn't even begin to describe our issues. Am sure Sweden is a much more homogeneous society.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Let me ask whose values and morals do we share? Even in a nuclear family the younger generation often holds different values and morals than the older generation. So, I don't believe Sweden's size affects the sharing of values and morals.

Most of the problem comes from the large number of Americans unwilling to compromise even a bit. The right-wing's gods of nationalism and theology so cloud judgement that few right-leaning Americans are willing to budge from their positions, since they believe the gods are on their side.

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[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

The size of government... would you say this is true of a nation of diversity, with so much obvious internal conflict? Would it be easier to accomplish intelligent governance if we were of one people and therefore one mind? Isn't that the difference?

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

As I mentioned, Sweden is much more heterogeneous than most Americans believe. American internal conflicts, I believe, generally can be attributed to a deeply flawed system, which divides most of the population into the haves (who own the means of productions) and the have-nots (those who do not).

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

I would entirely disagree with that - we are nation of entirely open and accessible to all willing to assert themselves; the problem is that we are paralyzed by the indecisiveness generated by competing special interests, the result of diversity. Everywhere in America the "have-nots" can "have."

[-] 2 points by flip (7123) 2 years ago

very nice

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by flip (7123) 2 years ago

you are up early

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

LoL ! Yes & no !! Here where I am at the moment it's ...

post merdiem ...

[-] 2 points by flip (7123) 2 years ago

ok, you're up late?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Was up very early and it's a ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXrJdOD5syo :-)

But very sad & crazy news from another US multiple shooting tragedy in Denver :-(

pax et lux ...

[-] 3 points by flip (7123) 2 years ago

yea - just heard about it - this country is spinning out of control. i am afraid it is only going to get worse - on many fronts. lots of angry people (with guns) who have no idea what is happening to them or why. they know their lives are getting harder - occupy might be the trigger that moves us in the right direction - doesn't look like it can but there is always hope!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

'It's always darkest before the dawn'.

spero meliora ...

[-] 1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

Also, they make cool clocks. :)

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I thought that was Switzerland. I'm pretty ignorant about clocks/watches in Sweden. Which brands are made there?

[-] 1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

It was a joke :)

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[-] 0 points by doitagain (234) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Sweden army is not that serious

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

I don't believe we need an army as big as we have. If we would stop interfering with the rest of the world to make profits easier and bigger for our businesses that have interests elsewhere, then there would be no need to defend ourselves because no one would be interested in attacking us back. On our 200th anniversary in 1976, I realized that we had become the equivalent of a big, rich, strong kid who could and did bully the rest of the world out of ignorance. Now we're perhaps the equivalent of a teenager, but still a bully. And still ignorant, since our education system has failed to teach us how to thing, being too intent on teaching us what to think.

[-] 1 points by doitagain (234) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

you got the point. but where that wrong pal who be able to stop the moneymaking machine and return country toward economic development and one and one. outstanding .i didnt spend a day in american school, so dont bully me. if there is no right candidate on the list, dont vote. or at least try to expressing yourself in the invalid ballot =)

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

Sounds really good if you live in Sweden with a population of over 9 million people - can't compare that to the United States with a population of over 300 million.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I've heard that argument so many times I can't even tell you. It is all a matter of just scaling up and spending the taxdollars on the correct things that benefit the people instead of on the wrong things that benefit the wealthy class big business agenda. For one thing, reduce our role as world cop by reducing the DoD budget and spend that money on social programs that would benefit ALL Americans.

Here's another post that talks about this in a funny (but true) way.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/bill-maher-comically-speaks-the-truth-about-americ/

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

I don't disagree with you but our government can't even balance the budget, nor can it properly manage SS or Medicare. Now we have the insurance debacle.

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

And NOW you're getting to the heart of the matter. It's not that it's impossible to achieve the standard of living here that the Swedes enjoy. It's that the power freaks that run things don't want a system that benefits the 99%. They want it all for themselves and everyone else be damned. It is certainly possible to engineer things so that we could have a much higher standard of living. So what's preventing that?

I think you already know the answer. So does Occupy. And that's why it came into being in the first place.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Sweden is more like a state. If it united with the other countries of Europe politically, that extra layer of Government would completely change it's balance of wealth.

If California broke off from the U.S., our economy and our freedoms would soar. Government is best when it is local.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

So you would advocate elimination of Federal government, and turn the US into 50 independent states/countries? I only ask because some people actually advocate that.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

It should be up to the people within every group worldwide to form their own domestic government. It should not be up to any government to decide that matter for them.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

50 new countries.

Huh.

Sounds like a recipe for chaos and more suffering for the common individual.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 2 years ago

The ideological divide is not THAT fine (50 is probably too much) but there definitely exists a huge divide that may very well turn out to be irreconcilable. Europe is continent-sized and has many states like the U.S. It managed fairly well for decades without any central government. There are benefits to having a central government but there are also many drawbacks as we can see in the European financial drama for more than two years already. Compatible states should cohere and incompatible states should separate to maximize their utility functions (including freedom).

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Europe grew as a process. It started out as band of nomadic peoples - hunting gathering. Then farming was discovered/introduced. Then groups began to fight for land and resources. Then these groups established borders to defend when they got strong enough and it has been a long bloody battle of back and forth for centuries to come to today's Europe. Along the way they each developed their own internal economy and defenses.

You think that there would not be these same battles of formation to be fought right here and now?

If you are you are not looking at the reality of the situation.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 2 years ago

The U.S. seems more psychologically homogeneous than Europe in the sense that we do NOT gripe about certain states being declared national disaster areas and having federal money flow there. A recent case is Colorado with its wildfires and we may get more states due to the exceptional heat waves and droughts. If the U.S. should break up, it would start on a firmer basis than Europe trying to preserve its monetary union.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Perhaps - I mean we all get along so well now - just think about the added pressures of coming up with the resources that are not found in your state. Now having to negotiate trade agreements with your neighbors. Um I am thinking the Southern States would be hard pressed to cooperate with their despised Northern neighbors - lots of unresolved animosity there.

OH and just think - legalized slavery in the south again?

Yes the private prison system is moving in that direction now but those are prisoners of failed prohibition to a large extent - as well as establishment of a cheap work force by the greedy.

Anyway - things would be quite chaotic to say the least and in places quite a bit more hellish.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 2 years ago

Perhaps we can create a virtual Republican States of America and a virtual Democratic States of America and have each of our states decide which federation to join. All of our states have militias anyway so defending the common borders of the federations will not be much more than federalizing some militiamen. We do not have to dismantle the U.S. federal government completely at once. We can transfer the functions of cabinet departments over time to the new federations with the apportioned revenue streams to cover the operations.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 2 years ago

Rather than a breaking up by physical separation, a virtual monetary/political organization into regions may work well as a transitional form to physical separation. We know our current system has big problems getting anything done so we must search for other ways of getting things done by a transition to an alternate system.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well I do not think that an additional 50 independent processes is gonna make things cleaner simpler fairer or at all better - there might be isolated instances but that would not be the norm.

Take for example Hawaii - isolated large population - surviving on imports and tourists. Hmmm things could be pretty ugly there in a heartbeat.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 2 years ago

There were city states with large populations that survived well on imports and tourists. The really important thing is how well they are plugged in to world trade and whether they have products that the world wants. I am thinking about the history of Singapore and Hong Kong.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Two very different situations as compared to Hawaii which is really really isolated.

Singapore located off of Malaysia - in the heartland so to speak of Asian and international trade.

Hong Kong of the peoples republic of China - also in the trade route of Asia - the middle east - Africa - India. Much like Singapore only further east.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 2 years ago

What is wrong with letting Hawaii be a strategic base for the Republican States of America? Its isolation and position in the middle of the Pacific Ocean makes it ideal for R.S.A.'s launching of reconnaissance satellites and hypervelocity weapons and domination of the Pacific as an inland lake by the R.S.A. presumably.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Now - that - was funny.


[-] 1 points by grapes (741) 0 minutes ago

They surely have fielded large numbers of our troops overseas and have welcomed energy developments, incarcerations of misfits, thumped their Bibles, and so on. They seem to have a lot in common, perhaps enough to unite them on a course of world domination. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You think they would unite?


[-] 1 points by grapes (741) 0 minutes ago

Texas, the South, the Mountain West, and the Southwest. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 2 years ago

They surely have fielded large numbers of our troops overseas and have welcomed energy developments, incarcerations of misfits, thumped their Bibles, and so on. They seem to have a lot in common, perhaps enough to unite them on a course of world domination.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

LOL - LOf'nL - Republican states? Where are they gonna come from?

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 2 years ago

Texas, Alaska, the South, the Mountain West, and the Southwest.

[-] 0 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (-358) from Yonkers, NY 2 years ago

do you work? why do you post so much crap? how do u have the time? I am in awe of your at your energy and enthusiasm.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I thought you did not like me and so would not be replying to my comments - oops - my mistake.

Not that it is any of your business - but I am retired.

[-] -2 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (-358) from Yonkers, NY 2 years ago

oh...that explains it. bored, retired windbag...and have driven all who you actually talk with crazy.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Are you in lust with my mind and jealous that yours does not function quite as well? I mean you do love following me around like a little lost puppy dog.

And you seem to have assigned me some sort of holy station.

Please get a grip.

Don't let your self loathing get to you - you are OK - just get some help.

It is OK - we do not live in the dark ages any more - or at least we have not returned to them - yet.

[-] -1 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (-358) from Yonkers, NY 2 years ago

Hey thanks a bunch. didja check out that family mental health center I referred you to in coon rapids? listen seriously, have you ever been to the Bronx?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Never been further east than western Wisconny.

[-] 0 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (-358) from Yonkers, NY 2 years ago

Hey Bob Dylan is from Minnesota too. I love him.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Like they say - to each their own. That is what makes us each unique.


[-] 1 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (53) from Yonkers, NY 0 minutes ago

he sings most beautifully. absolutely sends me to another level of higher self. love him a lot. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

He can't sing for shit.


[-] 1 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (53) from Yonkers, NY 5 minutes ago

come on DKA...now I got to diagree w/u... Bob does his own music the best ! 'So let us not speak falsely now, the hour is getting late' ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (-358) from Yonkers, NY 2 years ago

he sings most beautifully. absolutely sends me to another level of higher self. love him a lot.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I like some of his music - but performed by other artists - mostly.


[-] 1 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (53) from Yonkers, NY 0 minutes ago

for what? I know the other shoe. I give up. I promise. I love Bob Dylan and he's from your state. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (-358) from Yonkers, NY 2 years ago

come on DKA...now I got to diagree w/u... Bob does his own music the best ! 'So let us not speak falsely now, the hour is getting late'

[-] 0 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (-358) from Yonkers, NY 2 years ago

oh man. wow...I live in Yonkers..right next to Bronx. have worked in Bronx for 15 years. you got to come and visit. I've never been to your state. sorry if I was mean to you.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Waiting...........................

[-] 0 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (-358) from Yonkers, NY 2 years ago

for what? I know the other shoe. I give up. I promise. I love Bob Dylan and he's from your state.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

How about a combination that works? There are many good points to be made for having the majority of people's needs taken care of at the local level. How about we pay all of our taxes (income, property, sales) to the City or county (if unincorporated) in which we live and work. The City pays taxes to the county, the county pays taxes to the state and the state pays taxes to the feds for providing whatever services each entity is uniquely capable of doing. Bottom up politics.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

If you were a Kurd, would you prefer living under Iraqi control?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Not with SaddamInsane in power. As it is - they have basically their own state in all but name - northern Iraq. They can live there peacefully as long as none of their neighbors mess with them. Now consider what they would need to accomplish to seal/control/protect their borders. In a land where armed conflict has never really ended. Would it be the same for the formation of fifty new countries in what is now the USA? It would be a real chaotic hell on earth for many decades if not centuries - that is if we survived the attentions of the rest of the world as well.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

The Kurds completely disagree.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Hence the never ending armed conflict in the middle east - none of them can find consensus to live in peace with eachother.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

So why no conflict between Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You mean at the moment - like at the moment there is not an armed conflict between European countries like England and Germany and Poland and France and Italy and Greece. The what are I believe to be considered the Balkan States have their bloody History too. They did learn though a certain amount of cooperation when they had the common enemy and occupying force of Russia.

The regions are not the same.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

It should be up to the people within every group worldwide to form their own domestic government. It should not be up to any government to decide that matter for them.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I agree that government should be held to serving the people. But that is not what you were just talking about.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

You seem to be saying that small countries tend toward chaos because of their size. I would say countries that are amalgams of ethnic and other groups are far more likely to lean toward chaos.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

And that is why our melting pot is so violent?

Is that why we have divided communities?

Italian town

Irish town

Polish town

Hey - China town

Greek town

German town

London town

French town

We do have Indian reservations

Swedish town

East India town

Africa town ( post segregation? )

Australia town

I think you get the idea.

Is that why we have terrorists in the streets attacking these isolated communities?

Ummm I think you need to rethink that position of yours.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Kurds in Iraq, Armenians in Turkey, Uighurs in China, the Irish in Northern Ireland, the various Indian tribes within the U.S., all have the right to form their own governments, free from any foreign government intrusion or oversight..

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[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I know DK. Pretty crazy huh? But look at this list of orgs that are in favor of it.

http://middleburyinstitute.org/currentamericansecessionistgroups.html

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Pure insanity.

Do they even begin to understand what they would need to accomplish on their own?

Do they understand that they would need to close or otherwise control their borders?

Do they understand that they would now have to defend their borders?

Pure insanity.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is not the size of a population that matters - it is the health of the operating system or lack of health that makes a difference.

[-] 1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

I never said I disagree with it.

Like I said, our country can't even manage SS or Medicare and now we are about to try and manage healthcare.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

All the more reason to get government back to the people and away from the corrupt greedy wealthy bastards that are ruining our world.

BTW - SS & medicare? Pretty good programs. Just need to keep the raiders grubby little paws out of the finances.

[-] 0 points by TryingForAnOpenMind (-358) from Yonkers, NY 2 years ago

keep your grubby paws to yourself you self righteous windbag.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26024) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Are you tripping? It would explain much.

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[-] -3 points by delayedgrat (-157) 2 years ago

More utterly worthless comparisons with a miniscule, insignificant country of 9 million. We have 310 million. We have more people in the USA who dont speak English than Sweden has people. We have more people trying to get into America illegally (Or did) than Sweden has people.

Please compare us to countries of equal size like Brazil, Pakistan, Russia, Indonesia.

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

WTF does size have to do with it? It is only a matter of applied mathematics. Ever hear of scaling? This country could have all the social programs that Sweden does if it would only use the tax dollars for those same programs. Yes, taxes would have to go up to pay for them. But then everyone would be covered by them and have a social safety net. Quality of life would improve for EVERYONE. People wouldn't have to turn to crime and deal drugs and get thrown in jail supporting an underground economy trying to survive in a system that is rigged against them. It is a proven FACT that when standards of living are higher the crime rate is lower.

And remember Sweden has NO poverty -- NONE. That is why they have an exceptionally low crime rate.

And how much better off would this stupid country be if everyone had the opportunity to go to college for free (tax-supported)? For one thing, that would force people to learn English that you hold in such high regard. For another, it would raise the standard for education in the country in order to function in a highly literate and technically demanding society/world. But the power-elite doesn't really want an educated populace, and that is why we are falling (have fallen) behind with the rest of the world. This country wants people who can just "get by" and scuffle along working in low-paying service jobs.

The bottom line is that we spend our taxes on foreign wars and DoD because of the MIC, on oil subsidies,on the drug "war" on pot, and utterly stupid shit like that. The government would rather tax you to go kill people halfway around the world than tax you to improve your life and the lives of millions of others, thus reducing societal stress because people wouldn't have to worry about going broke due to medical bills, student loans, etc. They would rather keep giving tax cuts to the wealthy and peddle their trickle-down voodoo and maintain the status quo for the 1% than provide the means to improve society. And that is because the true owners of this country don't give a rats ass about changing things for the better...unless you're talking about changing things better for THEM.

[-] -1 points by delayedgrat (-157) 2 years ago

This is a fun game. I think the USA should emulate Beverly Hills! Or the Hamptons! Where everyone is rich. Maybe Palm Beach or Aspen.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Not practical. That would require inverting the pyramid. Today's pyramid concentrates a very large amount of the money in society at the top in the hands of a tiny few. Inverting the pyramid would concentrate the money in society at the bottom -- something the power-elite would never let happen.

But you could place most of the money in the middle that would provide the vast majority of the population with a comfortable, but not wealthy, standard of living. That is the Swedish model. Build up the middle class as large as possible. There will still be rich and poor, but the majority would be in the middle. Our country now is increasingly a two-tiered society, just rich and poor. The middle class is in the process of evaporating.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Size don't matter, it's how you use it.

[-] -3 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Good post man, people don't take these kinds of things into consideration and just get enamored with what they think is positive stuff.

They also don't tell you that the people in those countries which some have said are the "happiest places on earth" have lowered their standards so far that there is no wealth disparity between the classes because everyone strives to be mediocre. That's what OWS wants. To be mediocre. Not me, and not most other people that I know.

That's the difference between socialism and what we have. In socialism, you can work as hard as you want or don't want, and you'll never be better off, or worse off than anyone else. Here, if you work hard it's much more rewarding.

I choose this.

[-] -2 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

You make an interesting point when you say "they have lowered their standards and as a result no wealth disparity.

For how bad this country is why is it that everyone wants to move here - it's because a person can become wealthy should they desire and they have the "freedom" to do so.

In all othere countries of the world citizens are subject to the rule of the government - meaning they are required by law to do things that we don't here in America.

Now if a person likes those kind of regulations and controls then I say - move to that country and be happy.