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Forum Post: So WHO, then?

Posted 10 years ago on Dec. 14, 2011, 10:19 a.m. EST by fishb8 (62)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Most of the complaints are legitimate yet still find no concrete vision of how things should be. Visions of Utopia , Brave New World, Shangra-la, yet these are just visions .
Save from reinventing the entire world . . . and the US Constitution . . . WHO is the one person that should be the NEXT president and What is the FIRST 5 things he/she should do? AND . . . Will that REALLY FIX anything to OWS Organizers satisfaction?



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[-] 2 points by Libertarianliving (149) 10 years ago

He should legalize drugs, at least marijuana to start.

He should remove restrictive gun laws.

He should legalize prostitution and gambling.

He should totally revamp the way we pay taxes, although "fair" might hurt the poor and middle class.

He should remove many restrictive regulations on businesses and industries.

He would have been George Carlin. Without him, I am at a loss. Okay joking a bit with G.C. But I am totally serious regarding the law changes. They first 3 would really cut crime almost overnight.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 10 years ago

"He should totally revamp the way we pay taxes, although "fair" might hurt the poor and middle class."

So we damage the majority of the population? How is that fair?

Our problem is stemming from a dwindling middle class to begin with, how does 'hurting them' improve anything?

[-] 1 points by Libertarianliving (149) 10 years ago

Hey, you guys are the ones crying for "fair" taxes.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 10 years ago

Try some of you guys are...I'm not. I'm for reinstating Glass/Steagall, Citizens United repeal, and campaign finance reform.

I'd like to see some of the little guys with good ideas get a few minutes in the limelight. You know the ones who don't do those five figure chicken dinners and a handshake slip of a few hundred million.

[-] 1 points by Misfit138 (172) 10 years ago

Those are the stances of RP, who happens to be hated by OWS (at least by reading this forum it seems that way). Personal liberty is too much for some people it seems. Perhaps after having coddled this new generation so much, they fear life on their own; that may be why so many of them want Uncle Sam to do everything for them.

[-] 1 points by Libertarianliving (149) 10 years ago

You are absolutely correct. people are either lead around by Liberalism- leftist politicians, celebrities, etc. or Christian Conservatives telling them what their values should be, using fear of fire and brimstone.

[-] 0 points by fishb8 (62) 10 years ago

Who . . . . . .then What . . ..?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 10 years ago

the vision devises the solutions.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 10 years ago

First of all, I think the current President is as good as we are going to get, but I also think that if we put new, thoughtful people in every available seat in Congress, much could be accomplished. As for the first thing: pass a law that requires every political candidate to fund his/her campaign from public funds and that outright lies, when proved to be lies, disqualify a candidate -- or an incumbent, for that matter. Second, revamp the Tax Code and eliminate every loophole. Revamp the various restrictions and regulations of industry and business so that they are not onerous, but do not allow dangerous practices (probably have to be updated for the modern world as well); I agree with Libertarian that drugs should be legal at the Federal level so it does not undermine the states' laws; guns, prostitution and gambling I believe are state matters beyond federal authority.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

The first step is to get rid of Citizens United-

Words are easy - action is hard.
Are you ready
.....................FOR ACTION
Are you ready to
.....................DO SOMETHING REAL ?
Are you ready to
......................join 83% ........ of Americans ?

We must not
DEMAND that we WANT THEM.to give to US
We must

Because of the Supreme Court's decision,
we cannot accomplish anything significant, without FIRST -
Overturning Citizens United !!!
Ending Corporate Personhood !!!

83% of Americans already agree on it
as stated in the ABC/Washington Post poll


In the the PFAW Poll -

85% of voters say that corporations have too much influence over the political system today.
77% think Congress should support an amendment to limit the amount corporations can spend on elections.
74% say that they would be more likely to vote for a candidate for Congress who pledged to support a Constitutional Amendment limiting corporate spending in elections.


Our only immediate goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decision Citizens United (2010) , that enables unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons &
have no personhood rights”

We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we only have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.

THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)

If they could tie the left and right into a success -
WHY CAN'T WE ??????????


I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
Simple is almost always better.
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process. 5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.

Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.

I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one task the MAJORITY.

Join the OWS Restore Democracy Working Group at
regular meetings 6-8PM @ 60 Wall St – The Attrium @ Wednesdays
Plan details with supporting documentation at:.... http://bit.ly/vK2pGI



Whereas --

The OWS Declaration of the Occupation of New York City states that
"a democratic government derives its just power from the people,
not from corporations."

and --

the ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 83% of the entire US population
opposes the Supreme Court Citizens United decision,
which affirmed that corporations are people.

and --

by supporting the overturning of corporate personhood,
OWS clearly aligns itself with the vast majority of the American people
who support ending the fundamentally flawed and anti-democratic concept
that corporations are people.

therefore --

We support a constitutional amendment to end corporate personhood.

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 10 years ago

Is it to end "personhood", which I understand happened so corporations could enter into contracts, or is it just to end extending human rights to the corporate "person"?

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

Citizens United allows a corporation - such as Iramco to "buy" a senator with secret contributions. W e the people must take our country back. Look at what their power has done to our tax system by their buying congress

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 10 years ago

I understand the problem. However, my understanding of Citizens United is not that it granted personhood... corporate personhood was established in 1819...but that it identifed "money" as "speech" and then granted corporations the right of free speech, as if "personhood" were equal to "human," as in "human" rights.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

I will believe in corporate personhood when Rick Perry grins while he executes one
Mitt made his millions "executing" companies at Bainb

[-] 0 points by Confusedoldguy (260) 10 years ago

Is anyone else getting tired of this post being pasted everywhere on this forum? Dang, it's becoming white noise.

[-] 0 points by fishb8 (62) 10 years ago

If current pres is the best . . .might as well send out communist membership cards with your socialist security card

[-] 0 points by danmi (66) 10 years ago

The current Pres is the worst pos in history of Pres

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

yes he gave us tax cuts for the rich and wmds - oops - wrong president

[-] 1 points by Misfit138 (172) 10 years ago

He extended tax cuts for the rich and expanded military operations in three nations that are not a direct threat to us...what a difference.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago


we have TWO choices - what is yours?

[-] 1 points by Misfit138 (172) 10 years ago

My choice has been the same for years; vote for whoever is not the incumbent. If a seat is vacant (or a term is up), then I vote for whoever is not in the same party as the last guy and if their is a third party candidate, then I vote for them.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

logical - you follow your own lemming
so much easier that thinking!

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

The candidate does not matter
We must create a THRID party
We programmed lemmings of TP and koch and fox will,
in lockstep stay with the oligarchs and nazis.
the evangelical "new movement pipedreamers"
they can be hooked away from the only thing that scares us
remember how much we owe ralph!

dittoheads unite

[-] 1 points by Confusedoldguy (260) 10 years ago

"Long live the Thrid Party!"

[-] 0 points by fishb8 (62) 10 years ago

Wow....now that was really helpful......