Forum Post: How The Occupy Movement Should Talk To The World And How It Should Deal With Opponents.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 20, 2011, 2:05 p.m. EST by puff6962
(4052)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
OK, it's time to regroup.
You guys are doing everything wrong....seriously....You don't have a march to return Glass-Steagall. Hell, 90% of the people in this Country think Glass-Steagall is a brand of vodka.
We should all take a page from the politicians and learn that words do matter. (Or, as Archer would put it, "phrasing!").
Everyone should adopt the language of "Fair Capitalism," "We are losing our Meritocracy," "We must again be a nation of builders," "CEO pay should be strictly tied to performance," "The minimum wage should be a living wage," "Importers should be blocked from bringing in unsafe products and using slave labor," "Companies moving overseas should be blocked from importing the products they no longer make here," "Big money should not control our political process," and "Lobbyist activities should be public information." All of this anti-corporate and anti-capitalism stuff has got to end now. That stuff even scares the hell out of your supporters. Good messages should be brief and resonating.
I've been asked to provide examples, so here are some......feel free to suggest more.
Against Fox News....."Tell the Truth"
Against Grover Norquist....."Pay your share"
Against Eric Cantor....."Pawn of the Oppressor"
Against Newt Gingrich....."Let them eat Cake" (Gingrich recently said that protesters should take a shower and get a job!)
Against Wall Street Banks....."Pay Us Back" (for our bailouts)
Against anti-union initiatives...."Corporate Fascism is Still Fascism."
Against big money in politics....."Get the Money OUT"
Against lobbyist firms...."No More Backrooms" and "No More Backdoors."
Against Libertarians....."Move To Mexico" (Mexico is the Libertarian Paradise. How do you protest Libertarianism?)
Mitch McConnell is the "Scarecrow" and John Boner is the "Grinch." They even look like them.
If you can't summarize your initiatives in less than FOUR of FIVE words, then you need to move on to other initiatives. You must imagine that you are trying to convert your parents to the cause because, for any cause to succeed, you must.
Only something that is fully explanatory in one sentence is going to resonate with a broad swath of Americans. So, start writing those sentences.
Your first two paragraphs I think are very good. You are just advocating returning to a form of capitalism that benefits all or most of the 99%. We've had this in America before and just need to get back to it. Its the American dream.
Ya, read Krugman's writings on "The Great Compression." The middle class is not a historic entity. It was created by the policies of the New Deal and the economic realities of manufacturing armaments for World War II. Somehow, the changes that were necessary became the norm.....janitors made a living wage.....CEO's only made 30 times what the linesman earned......and we need to get back to that mindset.
Ironically, the countries that we beat in World War II adopted many of the FDR and manufacturing policies and they have been able to maintain an economic system that fosters a middle class......while we have not.
The difference.....Supply Side Economics and Fox News.
This needs to be printed out and stapled to the face of every idiot that claims we're trying to destroy the American Dream and take their freedom and prosperity away.
Yes. I'll bring the stapler.
Everyone should use the phrases, "Fair Capitalism," "We are losing our Meritocracy," "We must again be a nation of builders," "CEO pay should be strictly tied to performance," "The minimum wage should be a living wage," "Importers should be blocked from bringing in unsafe products and using slave labor," "Companies moving overseas should be blocked from importing the products they no longer make here," "Big money should not control our political process," and "Lobbyist activities should be public information." All of this anti-corporate and anti-capitalism stuff has got to end now. That stuff scares the hell out of, even, your supporters. Your messages should be brief and resonating.
Not sure you're aware, but all of that stuff is capitalism, and most of as it was practiced in the US when it was the most succesful economy on the planet (and in all of history). Capitalism isn't a synonym for radical libertarianism with no rules at all. It can take all kinds of different forms.
The general public is not at all scared by the idea of returning to a productive economy that builds things, not rewarding CEOs for failure, a restoration of meritocracy, getting the big money out of politics, or any of the other things you mentioned. That's what just about everyone wants. There are certain people who are scared by those things, though!
Yes, but words must be used very carefully. Since OWS has no leaders or spokespeople, the entirety of their message is transmitted to the world in random snippets and....I have to be honest with you....many of those snippets don't make you guys look too good.
Someone should write a "Change The World Manual" of about 100 pages....get it privately published and put on the web....and the movement should evolve from there.
Words do matter. So, use them well.
Your wish. An answer. A 100 page document, intended to solve, all of this.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/yourtopia-your-official-final-beginning-perhaps-no/
Like a Bible of the movement or something. That sort of thing has been tried so many times before and it always leads to the same place, rigid ideologues and thugs who twist the semantics of the document to suit their purposes. Factional disputes over the intended meaning, and a Simon-said mentality.
Much better just to have a general understanding based on common sense. There are all these claims that the public does not understand, the message is not clear, etc ... but the polling data says otherwise, and even the mainstream media is being forced to grudgingly admit OWS has struck a chord, so this just is not a fact in evidence. Will OWS be around forever, no, it probably will not even be around that long: it is nothing but the first step in something that will continue to develop and evolve. It isnt a brand and its success as a brand is not important.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/yourtopia-your-official-final-beginning-perhaps-no/
"The most powerful force in the universe is compound interest," said Albert Einstein.
Self-replicating processes are the key to all organized structures on this planet....including movements. So, branding, is not only an important thing.....IT IS THE ONLY THING. If you have ever tried IBC Root Beer, you will realize something has been missing from your life. But, most people just look upon root beer as root beer....and they buy Shasta.
Movements attract followers who spread the message and attract followers who spread the message and attract followers........etc. and etc.
The success of attracting followers is a function of how attractive is the message, how encapsulated it is within the mind of the convert, and how easily it can be sold to the next convert. If your message is Shasta, you're doomed. However, if you have a good product and good marketing.....your message is both sticky and replicable.
I hate to think in terms of game theory admixed with marketing on this, but those are the facts.
OWS needs to develop a flavor that appeals to the diehards as well as the moderates. That doesn't mean watering down the flavor, but it does mean a better strategy of marketing.
I dont know if you have been following developments in marketing much, but advertisers are already facing a crisis: their methods do not work very well anymore. They talk about this all the time, if you listen. People just tune them out. They are used to the tactics and see right through them. It is the advertisers who are now struggling to catch up to the general public and its decentralized, memetic ways. The advertisers try to imitate, but the medium simply does not favour a message going out from a central point like television did. What it favours is a sort of marketplace of ideas, where people respond to things from among a galaxy of stuff that is put out there, sometimes incredibly stupid things, sometimes brilliant things, but there is little rhyme or reason to the choices. One simply cannot guarantee whether anything will "catch" or not, you cannot design or mold the public mind so much anymore, it goes where it will. Once leading the dog on a leash, advertisers are now madly scrambling after the dog, desperately attempting to guess its next move. They used to be able to just shake a bag of doggy treats and catch its attention, but that's not working so much anymore, the dog's gone all random, its nose leading it everywhere but where people who want to lead it want it to go.
OWS is one of the things that has simply emerged. If you look around you see all these interests trying to co-opt it, for the simple reason that these groups cannot create anything similar themselves, cannot make what they want emerge.
Anyway the OWS is not a brand. OWS itself isnt important. You are confusing the process with the goal. Does it need to moderate a bit, yes, but developing a Bible of the movement or trying to pitch it as a brand is counterproductive and a quick way to become just a niche. It should never be formalized.
I don't suggest a bible, but more of a reference guide.....kinda like those survivors guides mixed with an almanac....It would be an operator's manual with a great deal of useful information mixed in.
If you've ever read the book of Alcoholic's Anonymous, you can get a picture. Good information melded with good tactics.
Each member of OWS must be armed with ideas and, yes, language that will help him reach out to other people. That lexicon is simply not there at the moment.
Sure it is. It just isn't centralized. The medium is the message ...
Ya, on operator manual of pertinent facts and how speak about them. Hell, wouldn't even put objectives in it because that would be too controversial.
Thank you for this, I have to agree. . . . we can be more detailed in specific policy proposals (such as the Deficit Reduction proposal). However, we need to put our best public face forward, appear clean and well-dressed at rallies and marches, and keep our points brief and easy to understand. I see too many people now saying they are alienated from the Movement due to recent (mainstream) media coverage or too jumbled of a message. We need to keep the momentum going. We have come too far to lose ground now.
It's time to regroup and to start thinking.
Nothing large should be attempted right now unless the occupy people are certain of a large turnout of support......otherwise, OWS could be seen a sputtering rather than resting.
Here, apparently, are the talking points of the other side (the critics of the Occupy Wall Street movement):
The movement is a “growing mob” (House majority leader Eric Cantor) or “shiftless protestors” (The Tea Party Express) or “pure, genuine parasites,” “bored trust-fund kids” (Rush Limbaugh) or is engaged in “class warfare.” “This is a coordinated movement on the part of unions and Obama supporters to distract the American people from the real problem.” (GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain) or the movement is made up of… people who need to “take a shower and get a job.” “There really isn’t a uniform theme here. They don’t know what they want.” (Bill O’Reilly) or “If you put every left wing cause in a blender and hit power, this is the sludge you’d get. It’s basically anti-capitalism, and they want to redistribute the wealth.” (Jesse Watters, FOXnation) “700 left-wing, radical hippie protestors.” “The people [in the movement] take a crap on cop cars and have sex in public.” “It’s a pig pen out there.” ”They’re trust-fund babies.” ”This radicalism is class warfare inspired by leading Democrats.” “Who gets the bailouts? It’s Barack Obama!” (Sean Hannity) “These are the spawn of the worst excesses of the ideological left…. This is manufactured chaos, manufactured crises. It has been since day one, and we’re seeing all of the ugly, wretched, criminal manifestations of it.” (Michelle Malkin) They have even been called… “Radicals, revolutionaries, Communists and Islamists that are working together to destroy Capitalism and the Western way of life. They’re calling for the violent overthrow of the United States government.” (Glenn Beck)
From my article at ...
http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-now-unoccupied-but-stronger/
--Knave Dave
These messages are so offensive that they simply must not go unchallenged. For too long, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and the Neoconservative establishment have used an unopposed mouthpiece as the pulpit for some of the most vile and dangerous propaganda I've seen in my lifetime.
The mainstream media challenges Fox around the margins.....John Daly is more direct.....but, for the most part, NOBODY calls them on their lies.
That simply must change.
I definitely agree. That's why I thought it was important to gather as many comments (Most of them do wind up coming from Fox, but not because that is where I looked to find them) so that people can see jus how solid the Republican commentators are agains the Occupy movement. I've now gone back to that blog article and added more based on what I read here.
--Knave Dave http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-now-unoccupied-but-stronger/
Fantastic.
The only straight information I get is from MSNBC and Current TV.
Who watches MSNBC?
people who know FOX News cant' be trusted.
http://baltimorechronicle.com/lyingislegal_apr03.html
credit to powertothepeople
Rated even lower than networks. Why would you watch it? Oh, It reinforces your own beliefs.. Enough said...........
I looked up ratings to compare MSNBC and FOX. Yes. MSNBC is rated lower than FOX. My theory is people prefer tabloid/sensationalistic journalism. And are sadly blind to the false propaganda they soak up daily. Either way you look at it, the two stations tell glaringly opposite tales of the same issues. So find me some proof that MSNBC coerces it's reporters to intentionally lie and spread false stories. Or otherwise go back to FOX and be mesmerized by their lies. It's your call.
I watch both and also read. I form my own thoughts. Don.'t trust either side...There is a middle, missed by both.
Okay. Fair enough. I appreciate where you're coming from. But can you expand on your view of the middle?
Common decent dialogue. What America was founded on. Freedom... Religion, thought, ideas. No need for labels or prejudices.
Thanks. I bash on FOX but only because they bash on my buddies. If they didn't bash everybody they don't agree with, I wouldn't be on here bashing them. In my opinion, all the news sources need to get a clue that the public is scrutinizing them a whole lot more closely these days.
Find the truth.
Fox news, in conjunction with talk radio, drives neoconservatism and many destabilizing influences.
They must be harassed to the extent that OWS is seen as the antithesis of their venomous words.
110% agree. Fox News should be re-branded The Red Meat Enquirer.
The middle is defined by the facts. Find facts and create your own interpretation. That is what books, magazines, the web, almanacs, encyclopedias, and our media used to supply....the problems was that it was boring and boring doesn't sell.
We have placed way to much value on our entertainment. I just had a conversation with my wife about the NBA lockout. How much value do we put on say, entertainment vs. eduction. Basketball players make millions while we barely pay our teachers in comparison. Something is out of whack with our priorities.
Confirmation Bias......
Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.[Note 1][1] As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and/or recall have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a stronger weighting for data encountered early in an arbitrary series) and illusory correlation (in which people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs. Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In combination with other effects, this strategy can bias the conclusions that are reached. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another proposal is that people show confirmation bias because they are pragmatically assessing the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.
Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Hence they can lead to poor decisions, especially in organizational, scientific, military, political and social contexts.
I agree. There's little risk of mainstream losing much, at this point, by calling them on their lies. I think it's becoming immoral/unethical to not do so.
Where there is the duty to act and the ability to act, the failure to act in an abuse of power.
This man needs an intense reeducation to accept himself as a 99%.
Perfect!!
and each one of these could be a sustained campaign of tweet mobs!
Yes, the best way to reach people is to talk down to them in an insulting manner.
Sheesh.
Yes, the best way to reach some people is to introduce them to reality.
Please. This isn't about "how to reach people" it's just sophomoric name calling. There's a lot of name calling on this site.
That's because you're not really contributing anything besides little nitpicky stuff.
GREAT START - and here is a few additions and corrections - The following makes no sense in today's new global economy: "Companies moving overseas should be blocked from importing the products they no longer make here," There are BETTER ways to work through the economy.
"Big money should not control our political process," AND MORE IMPORTANTLY the JUDICIAL process. How about this, if there is a case, civil, or criminal, if any legal fees are to be paid, they are paid to a "legal case pool fund", and the legal fees are split among each legal team, so the Plaintiff and Defendant EACH have the same legal resources. THIS would DEFINITELY CHANGE the affect of money on the justice system, which would affect the political system.
But I agree with you COMPLETELY - STOP the anti-profit, anti-property, anti-capitalism, thing. This is about JUSTICE, economic JUSTICE. The AMERICAN system and constitutional core is ok, it's just the gangsters are ignoring it! Excellent point!
I would like to make a suggestion that might go far towards nullifying the ability of the police to intervene . . . form squads of veterans and put them in between the police an the protestors - the cops may be able to get away with pepper-spraying some kids at UC Davis - but, let a video of them doing it to Vets and see how THAT plays on YouTube!
There's already been at least 3 vets who have been injured.....one helped an 80 year old radical pepper spray victim.
Here's how to deal with one opponent!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
Very well said. Www.getmoneyout.com please guys and gals sign the petition. Thank you.
Yes, I highlighted this initiative on another forum topic. It didn't get too much attention.....not provocative enough.
I think that the initiative should include strict controls on lobbying. Essentially, all lobbyist interactions with Congress should be recorded or in written form and be made public information.
Additionally, the maximum donation should be pegged to some number times the minimum wage. That way, when 20% inflation kicks in, they are not constantly trying to change the law.
If you need some ideas, come here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
My God, you guys have a hard on for Toshiba. Do you understand that if you don't get money out of politics, then all of your efforts on Toshiba will be as useless as a third tit on a bull.
No, the principle is the same. You take down evil politicans and you take down evil companies. Now, will you please join the KTC. Thank you for your time. :)
How about: the Native American tribes who despised greed were right.
Once a person had enough, they focused on making sure others were getting by. Yes, there is such a thing as "enough".
Hoard cats: you're crazy. Hoard newspapers: you're sick. Hoard money: you're an inspiration??????
I'm sorry, I think it would be better for me to wait for your medications to kick in before I respond.
And I will still think that we should be finding a way to speak against greed. Clearly I haven't found the way to do that yet.
Get big money out of politics, severely restrict lobbyists......and you're halfway towards everything you desire.
Free. Energy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=C01EM29uXWg
Live. Free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-bknltXSgE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
Very true. The best thing to do to a detractor of the movement is to say: What made you so anti American? Why are you so Unpatriotic? My personal favorite is: You hate America for its freedoms don't you?
Why is believing in a better America un-American?
I'm not sure what you are responding to.
This condescending thread right here is why your movement is a failure. You look down at everyone who disagrees with you and alienate yourselves from the ones you should be winning over.
How can you call a movement that has spread all over the world a failure LOL
Communism spread all over the world.....was it a success.
Movements are defined by what they achieve.
If you want to model the Occupy movement, study the progressive movement of the early 20th century.
Venereal disease's spread easily as well, doesn't make them a good thing.
Genius.
How can I win you over?
Impossible at this point. I was with you guys at the start but the childishness was too much for me, and when you guys lied about the NYPD not warning you to go on to the Brooklyn Bridge the first time that was the last straw. Form a movement not filled with criminal elements, condescending remarks and a clear message next time and I'll be there right next to you.
Stop lying.... You were never "with us" that is the oldest ploy in the book. go troll somewhere else you are too transparent to even be noticed.
We're making this up as we go along. The Brooklyn Bridge was a mistake and any disruption to commerce should have been avoided. We don't want to hurt the little guy and it is paramount that we be seen as a positive force for change. But, again, we are making this up as we go along.
The irony or ironies, is that the Occupy movement is the most conservative of groups in America today....We want to return the best parts of our society from the 1950's and 1960's and erase the neoconservative menace.
I'm glad you were able to own up to the Brooklyn Bridge mess. Most OWS supporters refuse to acknowledge it when I bring it up. Look, despite what xloser says I believe change needs to come and some of the 1% themselves have said in the very least, some tax loophole need to be closed. Ok I was with you guys on that one. I'm also a conservative. However, crap like this thread which do nothing but look down and push this level of elitism on your end do nothing to win over the more moderate people such as myself. It's so easy to demonize anyone center right and on because they are all religious, faux news watching morons right? Take it from an agnostic who gets his news only from independent sources and first hand reports, that whole line is bullshit and you are making a big mistake alienating the very people you should be attracting. You guys are making this way too politicized and need to stop. OWS will fail but I hope the sane and level headed guys who were a big part of it see what went wrong and don't repeat that mistake again. You guys blew ALOT of free goodwill with this childish crap and turning this into a same old angry hippie, mess with the police constantly movement.
Yes, and that is thy I suggested that the protesters take showers, shave (women too), and dress in their best clothes. We have suggested that they act very deferentially to any individuals that come and go to the Fox News Building, but ----against the actual edifice----- be rather aggressive.
Ok friend, good luck winning people over with that smug, coy attitude.
I'm sorry, would you like for me to hold your hand. I am not trying to appeal to anyone, particularly a little snot like you. Instead, I'm trying....along with a group of others.....to steer ever so slightly a large mass of energy in the direction that it must go. It's like herding cats. And along the way.....I get to respond to people such as yourself who, despite being screwed by the current system, would rather hold onto their bread crumb than to fight for a loaf. I have no patience for people like you and I have other responses to write. Good day.
And posts like this is why your movement will fail. You are no better than the greedy elitists you claim to be against. Good day.
Greedy elitists? I think that your are mixing metaphors.....Greedy capitalists and liberal elitists. You are no better than the dumb rednecks that you claim to be for. Good day.
Very solid and sensible suggestions. Thanks.
Thank you, puff6962.
How about, "Free Kisses"?
[Removed]
How about, "Get Peppered Sprayed .... Get Laid."
Or you could give Viagra to the Republican members of Congress. Maybe if they got laid, they would be a little bit better at compromise.
Liked you post. But you might want to rethink the Viagra thing. Seems they're already out to screw everybody.
Their new found prowess would just start an extended rutting season relayed on twitter.......let's not and say we did.....somethings you cannot unsee
How can truth be a one sided thing. You can't think main stream media is honest. I listen to Fox news a lot, and I also listen to main stream media. To be frank here I don't know who is lying. I assure you though somebody is. In the case of Obama, I have heard him give his JOBS speech three times, and all three times he said the same thing and didn't act any time. So you observance of truth is an according to who things. Part of me would support this movement but if the list you have made is acurate then I'll have to stick with 1%.
Isnt The Presidents JOB speech directed towards congress about telling them to do their job, because then Obama really cant do much about acting on this. If that is the JOBS speech to which you are refering to because he has given many more than three on jobs.
I do understand though the concern of wondering who is telling the truth but if you are that curious I would suggest looking into items further than just what media presents. Especaily if you are that unsure both could be lying all at once.
Fact checking services continually find that Fox news is just above the tabloids.
I don't know why we would want to go out of our way to reach out to these folks when we haven't even won over most of the folks who actually agree with us yet. I'm not suggesting that we ought not go out and try to recruit all of the 99% only that some people are more receptive to our message than others and the easiest and quickest way to build a movement is to bring in the people who are closest to us first. That would signficantly increase the size of the movement more or less rapidly and give the movement a much larger base from which to expand itself still further.
We should be going out of our way to reach everyone, as many of the 99% that will pause long enough to hear 3 words. If they are arguing with you they still hear you. I just explained to my 11yr old.....it is easy to be nice to your friends, but it takes courage to be nice to the people that don't agree with you....don't forget, that is what we are judged by.
I don't dispute that at all. In fact I spend an inordinate amount of time communicating with people on this forum who most folks would characterize as trolls. My only point is that in our day to day lives, its probably easier to win over people who are closest to us politically and otherwise, which doesn't mean we should avoid those more difficult to reach with our message. It does mean we shouldn't go out of our way to avoid somebody who is close to us politically when they are standing right in front of us, just to go around them and try to reach someone more difficult to talk to and reach out to.
Would using those phrases alienate those who are most receptive to the movement? If not, why not start using them with everyone?
Going back to the top of this posting, the problem I personally have with the recommended phrases are that they variously either have very little to do with the only official political document of OWS, the Declaration of the Occupation, or they are either somewhat at odds with it or in some instances downright contradictory to it. The Declaration of the Occupation is short, easy to read and a great outreach piece. At the occupations everybody rights there own slogans. If you don't like them, write your own. Among my favorites are "Demands Put Somebody Else In Charge of Your Happiness" and "Occupy Everything, Demand Nothing!" Look at what it says at the top of this page, right under Occupy Wall Street. It says: The revolution continues worldwide! Long live the revolution! Solidarity forever!
Movements evolve. I do not expect that a bunch of people hanging out in a park would be expected, within the span of a month, to write the manifesto for what needs to be achieved.
Always remember, objectives first.....tactics second.....and re-evaluation third.
If you cannot master the tactics that will be necessary to achieve your objectives, then you have to objectives.....only childish fantasies.
The fact is the occupation did write a manifesto of its vision and only days after the occupation began. It's called the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City and it's available on this website and elsewhere on the web.
I've read it and thought it was nice....but, it's a declaration.
You guys need an operator's manual.
For you to achieve your goals, you will need the mechanisms of government. Yet, you really have not formulated how you will steer the boat in your direction.
A million voices united is a powerful force. A million voices disunited is simply a mob.
"You guys?" "Watta ya mean you guys?" You are either part of the movement or you are not. Advice from supporters who do not understand that they, like the rest of us are all leaders and all have the capacity to influence the movement in any way we would like are one thing. Kibbitzers and opponents who have no real interest in the movement and simply want to shout advice from the sidelines are quite another. Join us or get out of the way. Solidarity forever!
I'm an armchair revolutionary and I give my best advice when I don't have a 21 year old asking me for a bong hit.
I'm 68. I still work part time as I need to suplement my social security. I also have medical problems, but I do try to make it to an occupation as often as possible within the framework of those constraints. As for drug and alcohol use, that was specifically prohibited according to GA ground rules, though such rules have fallen apart considerably since the eviction.
People are afraid to agree with you because they're not sure what they are agreeing to.
The Declaration of the Occupation of New York City is out there. It's on this web site and at several other places on the web. It is the only political statement that OWS has produced. It is a great organizing document. It is very short and very concrete and would make it clear to anybody who reads it exactly what OWS is all about.
I just saved the text of this post - it's great. I won't take puff's credit if I repost it on other sites. And if I do repost I'll relink it back here to the original.
But this is great. It needs to spread out.
I support OWS. The only way it can coalesce around clear, brief messages is if it accepts a leader. http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-becoming-increasingly-unpopular-heres-how-t/
Who can be our Martin Luther King?
Lawrence Lessig, Glenn Greenwald, and Elizabeth Warren are some names that come to mind. They are far enough away from the mainstream that they can advance the OWS agenda, but at the same time close enough to the mainstream that they can be seen as articulate and intelligent by regular Americans.
We all can be, or more apt,we all need to be leaders. We need to lead people to OWS if this is gunna be a viable political, social force in society.
Where there is no vision, the people perish.
A movement needs two people. A Martin Luther King and a Mark Twain. An FDR and a Will Rogers.
If you have the face of a movement and the humorist who can tame his enemies, then you have a powerful thrust.
If you have a million chattering voices, then you have noise.
Well, when OWS gets to the million mark perhaps. My main point being we, each one of us, needs to talk with the people we know. We need to make sure they are ready to vote, and vote. We need to educate people we know about how we got into this mess in the first place. In short we need to attract more people to OWS. Once more people participate in the democratic process, leaders will be born of this movement.
To communicate a message, you have to have a message.
I would suggest:
The minimum wage should be a living wage. All imports should be traced and NONE allowed into this company unless the related factories, mines, etc. comply with safety, environmental, and wage standards. We should no longer allow the "race to the bottom" by foreign and international corporations that prey upon desperate people and our own desire for cheap products. Pay a few more cents for that pair of underwear and you may end up saving the world.
Constitutional Amendments affirming collective bargaining a right, the availability of health care a right, and social security a function of our democracy. Powerful forces have aligned themselves in discrediting and destroying each of these aspects of our society. Clean air and water, as well as food safety, should be regarded as basic rights and should be enumerated as Constitutional rights.
Student Loans should be treated as any other debt during a bankruptcy. They should not be an endless yoke to those who chose to invest in their future.
Reconciliation bills should be fashioned by representatives of both parties.
Representatives should be barred from any form of lobbying for a span of five years following the end of their tenure.
The Equal Time requirements of media should be reinstated and frank errors, misrepresentations, and lies in reporting of the news should again require sanction. The news media serves a vital function in our Democracy and it is rotting on the vine. News has become entertainment and it must again be treated as a service to the public. Newspapers and investigative journalism are dying and our federal government must adopt every incentive, tax break, or subsidy to preserve them. I cannot stress this one enough. If our ability to find truth is allowed to perish, our ability to govern ourselves is lost.
We must once again be a nation of builders. At the end of World War II, returning GI’s were faced with a bleak job market. Our federal government anticipated their plight and, in order to shrink number of excess workers, offered the GI bill. This insight allowed millions, who otherwise would lack adequate financial resources, to attend college. This investment bred a generation of entrepreneurs, engineers, intellectuals, and scientists. The investment was returned tenfold. We are once again faced with a crisis that has left millions of Americans without work and unqualified for a transitioning economy. Our federal government should again take measures to shrink the surplus of workers without viable employment in our economy. A national endowment should be created that invests in what our country needs most; engineers, entrepreneurs, and experts (“the three ‘E’s’”). Scholarships, grants, and generous financial aid should be granted to students participating in approved programs advancing the three “E’s.” The effect would be a new generation of professionals proficient in science and the business opportunities of the future. A wise investment in our future will occur while abating, somewhat, the plight of the unemployed.
Force all 501's to divulge their contributors during (by email link) their advertisements.
Require that all derivative contracts be codified, standardized, divided in units, and traded on an exchange. Additionally, require all financial institutions to completely reveal such contracts and counterparties to shareholders.
Require all medicare payments to pharmaceutical and medical appliance companies be below or at par with numbers agreed upon by these companies with foreign national health care plans. (ie. Medicare and Medicare D recipients should pay the Canadian rate and not a penny more).
No corporation should be allowed the ability of concentrated influence over our political process. ALL corporate donations to campaigns should cease and contact with representatives or their staff should be commensurate with that of individual constituents. Essentially, all corporate contact with government should be written and lobbyist should be turned into opinion writers. If the supreme court stands in the way, then enumerate the language in a Constitutional Amendment and lets have a vote. Lobbyists should not be allowed to donate to campaigns and lobbyists should have no direct role in writing legislation.
A military draft should be reinstated, but should require equal numbers of draftees from each 10 percent increments pf income levels in our population. This would provide a military that is a crossection of our population, but would mean that those who had parents in the top 10 and 20% would be more likely asked to serve. I think that alone would place a damper on any more stupid wars (I could be wrong). But, the powerful don't usually send to kids to war. Also, it would revive some semblance service by all to our country and shared sacrifice. It's simply disgusting that many GI's have rotated 4 tours through Iraq or Afghanistan, or have been "stopped out." This can simply never happen again.
All trade pacts should be ended and transformed into a system of import and export certificates. Such certificates would be issued for both imports and exports. If a distributor desired to import 1 million dollars worth of widgets, then he would be required to produce a counterbalancing export certificate for the transaction. These certificates would be unitized and traded upon an exchange. The result would quickly be fair trade. Think of America as a large, landed, estate. Now we, the gentry, are spending more each year than we produce and, to make up for the shortfall, we are selling off pieces of our estate. Eventually, we landed gentry are left as renters on what was once our own estate. That is America. If we continue to carry yearly, massive, trade imbalances, we are gradually selling off a piece of our wealth and earning capacity. Abolish the electoral college and replace the election of our President with the popular vote. The electoral college has become an enormously sophisticated method of gaming the system and allows disproportionate voting representation by “swing” states. Every vote should count and the current system alienates voters in “non-swing” states.
OWS does have a message. The message is the USA is fucked up, it wasn't fucked up less then a generation ago, but the greediest in society basically fucked it up, and we need to restore America to the way it was.
Alot of what you said I agree with whole heartedly, which is my point, we can ALL bring people into this movement by articulating how we see things, as you have done. And by reasoned conversation with people we know, we can bring more people in.
But that's gotta be the process, convince others, bring them in, get them to vote. And get others to do the same. That's how you organize, it's not a huge secret. But we need to do this for OWS to grow.
the ONLY way OWS can coalesce around clear, brief messages is if it accepts a leader?
Sounds pretty fundamentalist and top down to me. It seems to me that somethings should be left to evolution.
It's all probabilistic. We are much more likely to succeed with a leader. Virtually all successful social movements in the past had a leader. Civil rights for African Americans (MLK), Indian independence from British colonialism (Gandhi), etc., etc.
In contrast, the leaderless OWS is declining in popularity.
This doesn't "prove" anything, of course, but it should make us think that we might be doing something wrong.
I'm not sure the the leaderless OWS is declining in popularity. The movements you write of didn't necessarily begin with those leaders. Many of those leaders evolved out of the movements themselves.
Agrees. With civil rights movement, womens rights movement, labor movement, Indian independence etc. leaders rose from within those collective movements, which is why they succeeded. With the tea party movement, they decided to accept leaders from without, thus allowing for a successful hijacking of their movement.
Check out the poll results I link to in my post. We really are declining in popularity.
And yes, successful movements often start leaderless. But then they transition into a leader-based movement. That's what I'm calling for.
your posts urged for a leader now, not transitioning into one. i could be missing something, though.
What steps have been made in choosing some sort of representation? I am not in NY so I don't hear any insider stuff.
How do you contact these people?
If you are not in New York, the best think you can do is email/tweet my post to potential leader and organization, and people who have a lot of Twitter followers. There are also some email address on the OWS website.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-becoming-increasingly-unpopular-heres-how-t/
I'll see what I can do. In the meantime, print off a couple of thousand copies of short talking points and simple objectives and start passing them around at rallies.
Also, tell the people to take a shower, shave, and dress in their best clothes. If you want to effect change, you have to appeal to more than just each other.
I promise....even appealing to eachother is easier when you smell good ;)
Ya. I've been camping a few times and, after day three, you start smelling the person in the tent next to you. Can't imagine what it was like for two months.
The "leaders" should be individuals well accustomed to appearing before a camera. Your movement needs a face......very soon.
In the meantime, the march on FOX News is MONDAY.
I don't like cameras.
Count me out.
I've had too many flings.
If you are an adept speaker in a public forum that shouldn't be a deficit - it wasn't for Clinton.
I think we will have to rethink the idea of 'the right' person. We are not equal to the least of our deeds, but a sum of all of them. Maybe reaching for the perfect look, the perfect education, the perfect person has led us into a space where normal people with normal and diverse life experiences are what is needed. Maybe the right person has had too many flings, or doesn't like the camera, or is poor, or a pro-lifer, or didn't go to college. Don't count yourselves out yet guys!!
um, a pro-lifer?
A person is free to believe what they will, and we must support that - at the same time a woman's freedom to choose whom to marry and with whom she will have children is for her, and her alone, to decide.
Repelican fucks have no business attempting to dictate how much freedom to choose any woman will have on this issue.
I believe that a woman's right to choose is her own too. But we need to remember how diverse the 99% is. I have heard people explain it likethe country is like bread dough. All 'we' are going to do is swirl through the dough but the original ingredients remain the same. They still want to know, if we get to the point thatt we are electing others in the 99%, are they going to run as a republican or democrat.
All I was pointing out was that even when we have fundamental differences in opinion, this is a cause we can (and should) get behind. We are supposed to be able to believe that, through majority rule, those ideas that are more extreme will be rejected by the more moderate majority, while keeping those inputs that were akin with the will of the people.
Their are probably millions of people who would never vote democrat, and for only ONE reason. ONE. The legal murder of the weakest and helpless of all. Now you call it, " freedom to choose". Others call it murder. A post like yours turns off a huge section of people. Call it narrow minded, call it what you will, but many don't trust anyone who advocates the torture and murder of an unborn child. It is the most selfish act a person could ever do, and a greedy doctor is the one who does it. The saddest part is almost every woman I know that has done this, wishes she wouldn't have.
Well that may be, but I say that every woman who dies of an illegal abortion no longer has an opportunity to . . . . repent . . . . and therein lies a greater crime.
We will not allow you or anyone else to allow your religious moral philosophy to curb a woman's freedom to make that choice any more than we will allow sharia law to become the law of the land.
Period.
You can get over it, or not. It means nothing to me.
I'm sure it doesn't. You are part of the group brainwashed into believing a fetus is nothing more than a piece of tissue. I once believed it too, so I get the blindness and denial you live in in order to stay in your delusion.
Obviously you have no idea what I believe, and since it is also obvious that you can barely comprehend what I posted above, I'll spare you the explanation.
I comprehend completely. You were very clear.
Bring America's Industries and Jobs Back!
My Company President Made Ten Times What the Average Employee Made Who Needs Public and Private Assistance For Food, Shelter and Medical Needs: When Will This Change?
Banks Got the Bailouts, 10 + Years of Work and a Layoff and Nobody Wants to Hire and Train Me and All I Have is a Foreclosure and a Broken American Dream!
-They Took Our Money -They Took Our Jobs -They Took Our Homes -They Took Our Cars -Where Is Our Bailout?!
(I saw a photo of this during the early part of the protests) " Bernanke is Wall Street's Secret Santa!"
There is a very unfair system at play right now. Correcting it will take protests, it will take laws, it will take changes in our cultural mores.
Greed, as Gordon Gecko once said, it good. Unfortunately, Gordon Gecko was wrong. Now we have to find a way to undo the damage.
Small steps, Grasshopper.
As Americans we can use the documents of our founding fathers as our blueprint to overthrow the mess too. We can reread and print the Constitution, Bill of Rights and mobilize in the face of the lengthy corruptions of our government, monetary system and business. For more check out www.occupytogether.org and note those threads addressing the FED along with the rest and tell me what you think!