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Forum Post: SImple demands

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 6, 2011, 7:28 p.m. EST by TobinStrike (14)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

  1. Stop all home foreclosures. Student Loan Amnesty.

  2. Defend, fully fund and expand the social safety net.

  3. Instate a 1%-10% Wall Street Sales Tax on all Wall Street turnover.

4 . Use Wall Street sales tax to fund public works projects to create 30 million union wage jobs.

  1. End corporate person hood, repeal Citizens United, paper ballots, revolving door lobbyist reform, third party rights, etc.

  2. Dump Obama and Say NO to Michael Moore and other corrupt left gate keepers like Van Jones, John Stewart, Olbermann or Maher. We do this on our own. No Marxists, Communists, Socialists, or Anarchists either. A movement with that kind of stigma will go NOWHERE!

30 Comments

30 Comments


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[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 3 years ago
  1. Stop Home Forclosures...Great so let me just go overextend myself on a loan i cant pay back and get a free house (same goes for student loans)

  2. I'll just sit home and do nothing. I have a "social safety net," so what can go wrong

  3. ?

  4. Not such a bad idea but shouldn't be used to fund unions, which a are politically aligned and corrupt as well.

  5. Also not so bad

  6. Now you are getting somewhere

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago
  1. Nobody is saying to give anyone free homes!!! We want to keep a civilized society and keep families from being homeless. So we want a freeze on all mortgage defaults until we can add 30 million union wage jobs to the economy. If you believe for a second that it's the people fault the country is in a depression and their faults that their home values went down and that there was no oversight then you need to please stop watching tv and read more. FDR froze all foreclosures and saved millions of lives, it's been done here before and we need it now to save the fabric of society.

  2. Again, we are in a meltdown depression, if we want to keep a civilized society we must offer medicare and medicaide to everyone. Raising unemployment, SSI, WIC, EBT, etc in a depression is vital to keeping people alive. This welfare makes people lazy argument is bunk. We should be first and foremost angered at the trillions if corporate welfare. Why is that ok but helping the majority from dying not. We must have a strong safety net until there is 30 million union wage jobs that can get people off programs.

  3. There is something that Wall Street trades, it's called a derivative. They are in a nutshell pieces of paper with the power to bring down entire economies. This depression is a depression caused by derivatives. Too long to get into now, but use google. Pretty much it is a quadrillion dollar bubble that's the main cause of the depression. Each of these derivatives is traded about three times a year or so, that's called derivative turnover. If we tax this turn over, we will have enough money to pay the national debt, and reinstate a public works administration to rebuild the US from the ground up and provide the 30 million union wage jobs so people can pay their debts and get off of the safety net.

  4. I never said use it to fund unions, you can't fund a union. You fund union scale jobs. And btw, for all their faults, and there are many, unions have given more to working people then any government in the would. We just have to reform union structures and ensure democratic unionism. There are many progressive reforms to union structure that would eliminate the position of the' union boss' and we must do that.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 3 years ago

I know what a derivative is, I work in finance. And derivative trading is a zero sum game. The problem is the credit default swap on the derivative which basically has a bottomless market. For example. credit default swaps on mortgage CDO's was a 62 trillion dollar market at the height of trading (right before the collapse of lehman). That money literally does not exist. The problem is overleverage and overextending which came mainly from insurance companies and phony accounting by over-leveraged banks.

And the biggest danger to the economy right now is another credit crunch (not the homeless or the unemployed, harsh as it may sound) But putting pressure on banks by freezing interest revenues on mortgage will put us right back where we were in 2009. We are unfortunately going to have to suffer with high unemployment for some years to come. A quick fix is a quick fix, thats it. Freezing mortgages the way credit is right now is a bad call long term.

[-] 1 points by Schnitzlefritz (3) 3 years ago

Let's tax the rich at 100% and close down wall street all together. And while we're at it, lets give everyone $100,000/00 per year, whether they work flipping burgers, a reseatch engineer, a teacher or unemployed. We should let everyone stop paying their mortgages and, just to be fair, everyone that is paying rent should be able to live rent free.

We should also ban all use of fossil fuels, nuclear energy and hydroelectric power. Nothing but wind and solar.

Let utopia begin now.

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

That's the stupidest thing I've read all day. You add nothing to the conversation. I award you no points, may god have mercy on your soul.

Why is it that when people want to improve the country they love, and improve it by dismantling the ways in which unelected persons pull scams, they all say we're calling for utopia.

I also love this idea that it's better to kick people out of their homes on the streets rather then hold off their debt until the economy gets sorted out and they can actually find a better job to easily pay for a home. It's been done before and any other way is barbaric.

[-] 1 points by eb6e32a2 (7) from Den Haag, ZH 3 years ago

What should your annual income be to be considered rich? I think some Africans are making $1 a week which amounts to a $52 dollar annual income. If we consider those people poor and every making more than $52 rich that would be a 100% tax on all U.S. citizens. ;-)

[-] 1 points by eb6e32a2 (7) from Den Haag, ZH 3 years ago

Demand #3 will be a one time tax. Wall Street turnover is based on a lot of small transactions with tiny profit margins. Those small margins add up quickly because of the enormous amounts of transactions made. Let's say I make a $100 transaction with a - by Wall Street standards - very large profit margin of 0.5%. That transaction will add $100,5 to my turnover. Then when I get taxed 10% I have to pay $10,05 leaving $90,45 for me. So with this transaction alone I incur a $9,55 loss. Just a few transactions later I'm bankrupt.

I understand it's appealing to make Wall Street pay and hit them hard but this kind of demand is not realistic and the equivalent of a death blow. The consequences of such a simple demand are for from simple.

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

Your model is not realistic and if you want, let there be a million dollar exemption. We're talking about the billions that flow above our heads every day in unregulated toxic derivatives, not grandmas savings bonds.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

Dumping obama is a fine idea, but not from a far right direction.

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

What about my post suggests I am from the far right? What we need is a left primary challenge to Obama in 2010. He can also be impeached on Libya and all the other wars, but I think Libya is a liberal war and that's ok, no?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

attacking michael moore suggests you have far right issues.

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

WOW!!! I must be far right if I don't like Michael Moore?!?! Holy shit you must be crazy. Michael Moore is a profiteer of catastrophe, a polarizing figure and a shill for corp[orations because he has offered no solutions accept tax the rich! Please, you can't tax the top 400 families enough to come even remotely close to what could be brought in with a tobin tax.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

all wars are bad.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

michael moore is spot on about everything.

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

Michael Moore is a media pariah. A hack. A left gatekeeper. The people you are trying to reach will not go for him. He had every chance to go on television and outline basic and simple plans for Americans to understand but all he can say is 'Capitalism needs to be destroyed, tax the rich'... infantile. Once you let Moore in, you let in a host of other failure left icons who offer no solutions, just complaints that make them look loony to the average Joe six pack.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

i don't know anything about him saying that- can you provide links? I agree we need to be more lucid than stepping in to become leftist pwns. those solutions come from textbooks.

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

Search youtube. Any interview he's been since ows not once does he give any real solution. Only slogans and ammunition for the right wing. Same thing with the labor leaders this past Wednesday. Nothing but tax the rich tax the rich... HOW?? What percent? What loopholes to close? There is no program in any of the talk.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

ANOTHER demands thread. sheesh.

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

Damn right another demands thread. If you don't have a simple plan that decapitates Wall Streets control over the planet, you're going to loose people. I fear this is going to happen very soon and you will become just another bunch of hippies who hate rich people.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 3 years ago

too late, because its not just about the simple plan, its about an organizational structure that supports working out those details instead of accidentally getting everyone posting on top of each other and not listening to each others posts. you didn;'t bother to read the old posts like so many other people, thats why the forum is flooded- proles and the mob acting like a mob of ego trippers and not thinking about how their big awesome idea is going to effect the ecology they post it in. everyones here taking an ego dump... and almost nobody is reading it.. and for good reason... most of its trash.

[-] 1 points by melbel61 (113) 3 years ago

OK, let me get this straight, I owe a mortgage on my home and have taken out student loans on behalf of my two kids, so your idea is just for me to rip up the paper(s) and say "ok, I don't owe that anymore". And what about credit card debt, do we all just rip up all of our bills and say, "hey, I don't owe anybody anything anymore". Of course, the bank I got my mortgage from (and no, they didn't receive any bailout money, they are a small community bank), what happens to them, and their employees (who are part of the 99%). Fully fund the social safety net? have you not read that nearly half of the American people are on some form of government assistance? 49.6 million on foodstamps alone? Sounds like paradise, until you actually THINK

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

It's called a debt moratorium. It's a legal thing that governments do once in a while. During the New Deal FDR enacted a foreclosure moratorium and saved millions from homelessness. Your arguments are juvenile. Especially about the local bank part. It's laughable.

Absolutely we should expand the safety net, this is a crippling global depression and in order to maintain human civilization we must fund and expand it until 30 million union wage jobs are created and people no longer need it. Yes 49.6 million people get EBT but tell me, is that 200 hundred bucks a month enough to properly nourish a family? I think not. This is supposed to be a civilized country and if the mega rich are going to use the government to legally corner markets and run otherwise illegal scams, the least we can do is expand the ways in which we are protect ourselves from state enabled tyranny.

[-] 1 points by melbel61 (113) 3 years ago

my remark about the local bank was absolutely right....local, community banks, credit unions, etc., did not take bailout money because they didn't need it. They did not allow risky loans/mortgages, etc. on their books so I'm not sure what you are talking about. As far as the safety net, we have a safety net in this country, but the best 'safety net' is a job. I've always worked in the private sector and I can tell you that until there is certainty coming out of Washington and until there is a complete turnover of the political class there, nothing will change. You want a moratorium on foreclosures, fine, but again, the US is broke, 16 trillion in debt already, mortgages, etc. have to be paid back, so again, I'm just not sure we are living in the same reality.

[-] 1 points by USAMommy (10) 3 years ago

Explain the why behind student loan amnesty. (Not being sarcastic, genuinely interested in understanding your perspective.) I have a hard time supporting my tax dollars covering other people's educational loans when I ate Ramon Noodles for 5 years to pay back my own. Nothing is free unless someone makes a good or provides a service for free. Teachers must be paid. The light bill at the universities must be paid. Only thing free is slave labor.

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

Because student loan debt is well over a trillion dollars, and without adding 30 million union wage jobs, students have very little options for a decent paying job that lets them pay back these loans. Nobody is saying the teacher or light bill shouldn't be paid but the fact is there are better way to run a university system then enslaving a generation to debt.

[-] 1 points by eb6e32a2 (7) from Den Haag, ZH 3 years ago

Slaves have to eat. So that's not really free either. ;-)

[-] 1 points by mwagshol (120) from Seattle, WA 3 years ago

Do you have any references or sources on why these are valid demands? Do you have any polls showing a large majority of support for these demands by the American people?

We need verified information to back up these claims and to find a solution..

[-] 1 points by TobinStrike (14) 3 years ago

Most Americans are overwhelmingly for new deal policies. Just about every single poll taken that asks if people would rather keep the benefits from the New Deal show over 60% plus are in favor, use Google.