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Forum Post: SIC

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 14, 2012, 10:19 p.m. EST by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I feel sick. Do you feel sick? I do. I feel sick. That hollow, empty kind of sick, angry sick. Sick to death sick. It's the same kind of sick that I felt when I heard via WCAX that Israel Keys selected his victims on the basis of specific circumstances.

He was somebodies little pet. I have no doubt.

I have no proof of course. No one of course will point out that it is problematic, basing one's opinion of such things on no more than the filter provided by the news media. But I am aware of the difficulty. Never the less, I remain convinced.

Israel Keyes was someone's pet.

Not paid to kill so much as he was enticed - and rewarded - both positively and negatively, until the desired behavior was produced. Behavior that ended in death. Over 11 times apparently, according to the FBI. It is my opinion - he was someone's pet.

And this latest school shooting - the fruit of MK-ULTRA will never be shown to have played any role what so ever - whether it did or not. I am certain that it has played a role, at least in most of the mass shootings that have occurred in this nation in the course of my lifetime, if not in this latest as well.

That is my opinion.

IF I am correct then it matters not if you ban all firearms completely or not. For in the end, those with the will and the technology to produce mass or serial murder and do so for political ends will continue to do so - using motor vehicles, sharp implements or household chemicals, it matters not.

That is my opinion.

Given that this is my opinion, it seems to bear some responsibility. The responsibility to speak. But ultimately, will it matter? Certainly the guilty will go unpunished. The pet takers and the pet keepers will not see their crime paraded in the light of day. Not now, not for us, not this generation.

Perhaps one day, but not today.

Rest assured, that if I thought by dying, tonight, I might somehow change that reality, I would, and I would smile.

I would like nothing better than to see ten thousand bio-behaviorists strung from lamp posts all across this fair land, with their guilt incontrovertible, laid bare for all to see, and weep.

Or cheer, as the case may be.



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[-] 3 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

"someone's pet", "The pet takers and the pet keepers" -- how does that work?

I've heard of individuals being manipulated through titrating anxiety causing agents and anxiety meds to a state of a psychotic level of anxiety. And that the anxiety is reduced after specific behaviors and stated thoughts. And that after a point the anxiety will be reduced by these behaviors themselves. We're talking anxiety levels so high a person would do anything to reduce it. Is this account factual? Does this bio-med technology exist?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I've heard of individuals being manipulated through titrating anxiety causing agents and anxiety meds to a state of a psychotic level of anxiety.

Interesting. Titrate - I had to look that one up. It's a new word for me.

  • titrating

    • ti·trate

    • [tahy-treyt] verb (used with object), verb (used without object), ti·trat·ed, ti·trat·ing. Chemistry .

    • to ascertain the quantity of a given constituent by adding a liquid reagent of known strength and measuring the volume necessary to convert the constituent to another form.

    • Origin: 1860–65; tit(e)r + -ate


How does it work? The explanation is rather lengthy for what is in reality a relatively simple process, no matter how complex the actual scenario or what level of technological expertise is brought to bear in creating the final result.

Consider a group of women in the work place. A group of women who must deal with a male coworker whose behavior and attitude are less than . . . genial.

They could gather around the water cooler at break time and discuss said behavior, in specific detail, within ear shot of the offender, and toward the end of the discussion drop one name - say the name of someone, anyone, other than the subject in question.

Subject walks away chastened, wondering about this other whose behavior is so similar to their own - unless of course their own personal denial is so wide and deep that such reflection remains out of their grasp. In such an event the ladies should perhaps simply use a base ball bat. I digress.

The method described above may go by many names, neural linguistic reprogramming is one, mobbing is another. The effects have been well documented.

Add in modern surveillance devices and their capacity for generating personally identifying and private data, incorporate such data into a model such as that above, and you can instill a deep sense of violation, of paranoia.

Identify the subjects hopes and fears, surround subject with a variety of stimuli that subject views negatively, and you induce cognitive dissonance - a term put forth by one Festinger, author of When Prophecy Fails and an early pioneer in the violation of privacy as a matter of research necessity. The introduction of negative stimuli can be designed to either deliberately capture the subjects attention in such a way that suggests conspiracy -

or not.

All of this can induce pronounced agitation and a state of hyper alertness.

Where predictions of death are introduced into such a contrived environment as described, one is apt to go quite mad. When it becomes clear that such predictions have a basis in reality, one will either become compliant, or not, and when not, they will prepare for death.

They may prepare to kill as well.

A subject brought to such a point who then begins to act out may then be trained, under certain circumstances, to engage in a process that may become ingrained, over time the responses may become automatic even if they are highly complex and subject to creativity inspired by the moment.

Other cultures have other methods of pet taking. In many nations today women are no more than chattel. Here we have our narrative of self reliance, independence, and equality. Clearly some of us are more equal than others, a fact not lost on OWS.

Israel Keyes was cooperating with federal authorities prior to his suicide in an Alaskan prison. He made it clear that if his name were released to the press he would cease his cooperation. Somehow a Vermont reporter got his name, published it in connection with a double murder that took place in Essex, Vermont, and his cooperation ceased. He is known to have killed 8 times, suspected to have killed on three other occasions, and there may be others that are unknown.

He was someone's pet. Of that I have neither doubt, nor proof.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Very Interesting Comments. Thanks.

BTW OWS Forum is no longer loading more than a dozen posts on my computer. I sort of think this is a corporate take over ...I don't know, some upgrade 2 weeks ago? A dumbing down of OWS Forum?

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I haven't noticed any changes. It could be anything from an excessive load on your computer's memory to a restriction on your bandwidth - or even a mirrored server with a different set of load functions.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks. I have tried to delete temporary files. My computer does seem to use a lot of processes and memory for some reason.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Perhaps you should try anti-viral or anti-spy ware software, and then find an optimizing program, one that is provided by a credible vendor. Watch carefully where you get your software - hackers like to offer fixes for just this kind of problem, and fixing isn't what they do.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Wow, talk about opening up a broad post for broad comments.

Yes, Monstrous is the normal feeling of people if they learned of the activities you describe. Sick is the feeling.

I heard some discussion about MK Ultra again this year. The speaker was so convinced and convincing ... I actually repeated it to someone later on. There is no doubt that the Government, elements of the government (hear the deniability there), conducted many experimental type testing on humans ...everyone should have heard about the VD transferred to black men in the military ...There seems to be a prime motivation in the European Culture to create military advantages at all costs ... this seems to lead to atrocities in battle, captivity, and in use of torture (I'm white by the way) ... There seems no limit to the imagination ... on what military will try ... mind control, psycho-active drugs, robots, drones, gas agents, umbrellas with poison tips, radiation posioning, ...

It actually seems to me that Films and Novels capture very real Ideas and put them up for all of us to be aware of. Tom Clancy's books Debt of Honor, Rainbow Six, ....

Some will find your Post to be a dark view of the world. But what is worse? How about the crap they teach us about US History? Our US History is so bad that they have to Classify Most of what the US Military Does, and strange other things that the public has compelling reason to fully Investigate and have full disclosre. Like JFK & MLK Assasinations... it has been 50 years, people. How about the attempted Coup against FDR? How about the WMDs in Iraq? How about the Cause and Start and conduct of Vietnam War? How about the US Providing Material Assistance to Sadam Hussein of WMD for use against Iran? How about the Covert US Efforts of Regime Change in Iran in 1959? How about the 2008 Financial Crisis - clearly a National Security Issue that should be fully exposed and Invstigated.

Anyway you are right that murder, mayhem, and killing won't stop as a result of first, second, or third phases of Gun bans. We have plenty of news reports of big city break ins by poor gang members that use household chemicals to destroy victims and destroy evidence.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

You may like this post as well.

[-] 2 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

interesting. and not very surprising.

[-] 2 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

I stumbled upon that quite accidentally. A great many things took on a new light afterward. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I've been down a large dark hole - now I just naturally tend to expect shit like that.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

The light never seems to regain its brightness once it is dimmed; but the truth is a trade-off I am unwilling to undo.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

the truth is a gem, bright sparkling and glorious.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

As it illuminates the deep dank places...yes. It is wonderful once the individual is able to see it and utilize its power. Frightening as it may be, it can light the way to better times for mankind. A magnificent flashlight too hot to hold, it can be.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

embrace it and weep

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

Once average Americans realize that they have been subjected to such outlandish and horrific experiments by individuals that hold no loyalty to them, they will act, and the world weep for what America will have done to such traitorous souls.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I keep waiting for that day - I won't hold my breath

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago


[-] 1 points by Renneye (3294) 1 year ago

Great exposure! Shine the light on the dark underbelly of life! Humanity deserves to know the abominable and 'less than human' practices of our historical and current ruling elite. How else can we save the defenseless people who are suffering at the hands of the cruel oligarchs.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

well thanks - this one is better in some respects.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

One word comes to mind....


[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

what is interesting is that no drugs are necessary to drive one insane or to script individual behavior - psychotropics may in some instances expand the envelope somewhat, I'm not sure. I haven't done any.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

More than 50 years have passed since MK Ultra received 6 percent of the CIA budget. It is not hard to believe that there are ways to control minds now without drugs. Statistically at least.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

fear, sleep deprivation, a bit of cleverly scripted eyecon-ograhpy, and we can make even Jet Blue Pilots behave in a manner lacking all signs of reason.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

Imagine the methods we know nothing of, let alone methods of torture we do know of. All it takes is a mind sick enough to implement it. We need to stop justifying the actions of those minds.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1320) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 year ago
  • The desire to control the behavior of others and to corrupt human nature by twisting social instinct to the profit of self interested leaders is original sin.

  • Those who impose their will on others and the others who allow their will to be overtaken are all guilty of the continued commission of original sin that is threatening the survival of the human race.

For more about the roots of dysfunctional economy and culture see: How Does That Work? https://www.createspace.com/3852916

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

well said.

[-] 1 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

Did anyone ever consider that parents are "behavioralists." And so are all other influences - the schools which prohibit males from settling dispute, even the TV - since vision serves no other purpose but to inform, is a behavioralist.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago
  • behavioralism

    • David Easton was the first to differentiate behavioralism from behaviorism in the 1950s.[13] . . . behavioralism is not a research tradition, but a political movement . . .
  • Behavioralism as a political approach

    • During its rise in popularity in the 1960s and 70s, behavioralism challenged the realist and liberal approaches, which the behavioralists called "traditionalism", and other studies of political behavior that was not based on fact.
  • Different Types of Behaviorism

    • There are three major branches of behaviorism, and each takes a somewhat different angle on the central ideas in behaviorism. Methodological behaviorism holds that only a person's actions should be studied. Psychological behaviorism says that a person's observable behaviors, and the way those behaviors are linked to previous exposure to stimuli should be studied. Analytical behaviorists believe that a person's internal thoughts are directly linked to his behavior, and that his behavior will help predict his thoughts.


behaviorism is a field of research, behaviorists are human beings who engage in this field of research. An influence is not a human being - and therefore an influence may not be said to be either a behaviorist or a behavioralist

[-] 1 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

I'm out of my league here.

I understand the first statement and I understand your last... but I now find myself curious about the suffix "ist" - a literal-ist, a realist, a plagiarist... absolutist, abstractionist, antagonist, an absurdist... an ethicist, an atheist, a communist... an intellectualist... is there this thing of "practice" inherent in the noun? Well... indubitably.

Behavioral-ist, an adjective transformed into a noun and now I am again be-wondered - what to say of the now indubitable suffix "al"? Well...: "of or pertaining to, have the form or character of...," etc, and etc:

So what we have is of the form - behavior - and with the addition of the suffix 'al' it is a practice, not a study; what???

So I think those that practice to study should be called??? Studyists. Isn't that precisely what we call them? What then of a study-al-ist?

What of those who practice the study of students? Are we to call then Studentalists?

Did I just invent a new field of study?

The purpose of the parent is to prepare children for society; this escapes us as a matter of form; here a deficiency of language. Can we here separate the object from the form?

Parents are both behavioral constructionists and construction - al - ists, instruction-ists and instruction-al-ists, obstruction-ists and obstruction-al-ists.

I'm quite certain you stated all this very precisely, somehow... didn't you?

I know, I know, it's merely my lack of education that has failed to educate me in the proper use of nouns...

Bare with me and no doubt you will reveal all.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago
  • without Justice

  • there can be no peace.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Please share your best link on MK Ultra. I've heard about this several times, but honestly have not taken the time to look into it. I would like to.


[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

unfortunately this is an area of research where I have encountered several difficulties. One is the lack of credible and reliable source material. Another difficulty that I have is much more personal than that - having seen some of the technology applied leaves me impatient with that lack of credible and publicly available information and prone to emotional overreaction when attempting to confront that fact - especially when aspects of the technology present themselves so starkly in our culture. It appears regularly in every field of artistic endeavor in America - in paintings, music, literature, movies,

and syndicated television entertainment.

The prevalence of reference among our art forms combined with the human suffering it represents, juxtaposed with the lack of reliable data tends to make me furious - and prone to outbursts of rage that often are completely inappropriate to the occasion where such emotional events present - and therefore I tend to leave the research to others less handicapped by experience than myself.


Not a bad place to begin.

Festinger, et al. When Prophecy Fails

Vance Packard, The People Shapers

Donald Norman The Psychology of Everyday Things - first edition. Later editions seem to have been so significantly altered that their ultimate use as research material is questionable - and generally even the first edition didn't deal with pet taking so much as it did with accidents and what causes them. Without arriving at the first edition armed with the concept of accidental engineering as a field of endeavor one will miss out on the value of the material.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I'm hoping that book by Packard is good. I just ordered it online because hardcover was only 7 bucks with shipping.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Packard was an excellent writer and highly acclaimed for his work. Unfortunately he barely scratches the surface of this topic, and I cannot recall if he ever mentions MK-ULTRA by name.

A good librarian may be able to help find related material.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

that's alright. the description seemed interesting enough and it got great reviews. I already ordered it.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

It is an excellent book - and the subject matter is very closely related, and does go some distance in providing insight to the . . . general erosion of principle when it comes to this kind of applied science . . .

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I've seen the way propaganda is used. I would not be surprised if THEY found the next step.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to start with Vance Packard and The People Shapers.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

In his book he quotes one Lloyd Holme as having stated, back in 1968:

  • We have the capacity to install any behavior we want.

He cites Psychological Record 18 I believe - I tracked it down at the library just to see for myself.

What a remarkable statement. I would really appreciate the supporting documentary evidence behind such a pronouncement on public display . . .

I am confident the public would then be quite content to see the hangings commence for Holme and all of his associates . . .

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Is his last name Holme or is it Homme?

LOL and it looks like the downvote campaign against me continues.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I thought it was with an L - but I could be wrong. It was 14 - 15 years ago when I ran across it.

And I saw that - it aint me man. There are very few around here that I down vote on principle - and that only when I'm feeling . . . moody . . .

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I know who is doing it. I'm not blaming you. I just can't believe they're still going out of their way to do it. It's been like a week. They literally click on all my comments in the recent section just to go to them and downvote.

anyway. thanks for the info!

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

they must have conservative repelican leanings - those fuckers are sick.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

All of my recent posts for this week of the downvotes have been on the following topics, HSBC fraud, Morgan Stanley's racism & fraud, The Federal Reserve giving money to banks, Drone strikes, Chris Hedges speaking against the banks, US spy programs, and a Wal-Mart security guard shooting a woman.... yet this week i've gotten the most downvotes, much more than normal.

THEY don't like people speaking against the banks and the Wall Street government.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I've been really busy for the last couple of months trying to get stuff wrapped up around here before snow - sorry I've missed your posts. If they have generated enough interest that they have produced a minor following then you must be doing something right.

I'm surprised they down voted the Federal Reserve thing - that is one repelicans love to hold up as a means of bashing the current admin, without ever acknowledging that their own peers, allies, and even portfolios seem to benefit . . .

  • the fuckers
[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Yes that is very true. It's also a distraction because Congress is almost entirely to blame when it comes to corrupt monetary policy. Only they have the power to reform it and that is according to the Constitution. I do find Bush's Ben Bernanke very questionable though. I just hope their tactics aren't being used to deter people away from looking into monetary policy. So many have been quick to associate anyone talking about monetary policy with the libertarians or republicans. There are great and trustworthy liberals like Dennis Kucinich and Alan Grayson who know for a fact that the federal reserve is corrupt.

We need real monetary reform like Dennis Kucinich's HR 2990, the National Emergency Employment Defense Act.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8757) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

"IF I am correct then it matters not if you ban all firearms completely or not. For in the end, those with the will and the technology to produce mass or serial murder and do so for political ends will continue to do so - using motor vehicles, sharp implements or household chemicals, it matters not."

There is ample evidence that you are not correct, people do not find other means nearly as often in places where guns are harder to get. Only one other country, Finland has had more than one of these in the past thirty years or so we have had 11. The ease of acquiring guns in America diffidently adds to the number of mass killings here. People do find "other means" in other countries but only about one tenth as often as here, so gun control laws only make sense if you want to reduce these by 90% or so if that's not interesting then it's not worth it.

[-] 0 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (-32) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 year ago

Germany has had more than one in the last ten years; "more than one" is not a valid qualifier either - Norway's killed more than 80.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

the lack of such incidents in other nations may have more to do with political considerations and history than the prevalence of firearms themselves. Throughout Europe the events of WWI and II have been highly informative, shaping both culture and politics in ways difficult to imagine at first glance.

Given that with this latest incident the PD arrived after the perpetrator was already dead - not to mention our War on Drugs and the various ways in which this tears at the fabric of our society - I think I'll be keeping my firearms thanks.

I'm convinced that incidents like the death of an American at the Olympics - both Atlanta by bombing and China by knife - illustrate some of the possibilities.

Any difficulty presented by a lack of firearms may be very easily overcome with a minor adjustment in volume . . .