Forum Post: SHUT UP about Ron Paul
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 13, 2011, 5:40 a.m. EST by OpenSky
(217)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Ok, "shut up" is a bit inflammatory, please excuse that, I was angry when I first posted this haha. Anyway:
Its time that they understand that our movement isn't about a candidate for election. It's about the 99% vs the corporate taint on our political system. I just wish they wouldn't use our forum for campaign recruitment. Perhaps I was a bit harsh (in one of my earlier posts), but you should see what's going on on all the forum posts. Almost every single post is plagued with Ron Paul supporters talking about completely different topics. They just look at a post with lots of views, then copy/paste their statements into the thread and head on to the next one. It completely hijacks the conversation and prevents people and the OP from talking about the original topic.
Please understand, I'm not making a judgement of Ron Paul's character of fitness to be president. I just want to make sure that people respect each other's right to post without fear of being co-opted.
This isn't about Ron Paul; it's about a fundamental conflict between Paulite libertarianism and much of what OWS advocates. Paulites almost always want financial deregulation; OWS often calls for stricter financial regulation. Argue the merits, certainly, but when the chips are down, there's a very difficult bridge to cross there.
It is a crying shame; OWS and the Paulite camp agree on a lot. We definitely agree that there's a problem. We mostly agree on where that problem resides. We quite often agree on who is to blame. Unfortunately, we totally disagree on how to address the problem. Most lamentable; I wish I knew of a way to bypass the divide.
And yes, "SHUT UP" is pointlessly inflammatory, but the situation is massively frustrating for everyone involved; I understand why people might lose their tempers. Nevertheless, it's an issue we can't ignore ad infinitum.
[I think I accidentally hit "delete" earlier. Ugh.]
Yes, I've been saying the same thing for a while now here. You're the first person to say it other than I. Well stated. The devil is in the details. One guy did reply with a lot of common ground arguments, I have to admit. Can't remember the thread now.
I've actually suggested a "Philosophical Differences and Similarities" subcommittee to GA, but so far, no bites. I think having a round table of people from the full political political spectrum would be a good idea.
Most of my "conversations," I hate to say, have not been productive. Mainly, in my experience, because my opponents wont' actually address my concerns. Or I'm called names. Which is really useful. So, I've largely given up. My take at this point is not that #OWS needs to reach out to them, but that they need to reach out to #OWS.
Peace.
Groobiecat
[ There's a blog here: www.groobiecat.blogspot.com ]
[ There's an #OWS election process here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/come-to-the-nyc-general-assembly-on-10-15-12-to-st/ ]
[ There's a draft Declaration here: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ ]
how can I submit a proposal to the General Assembly?
PS. I'd appreciate it if you private message me, as this chaotic forum makes it hard to keep track of comments.
I agree with RP 95% of the time. We need to re-regulate the banks however at this time. We don't need to set up a brand new agency to do this. This we need to write a one page law that outlaws the amount leveraging that jeopardizes our whole society.
The law should say you can gamble with the money that you have and no more and certainly the tax-payer will not help you if you lose.
Here's a suggestion, start targeting laws and policies that are hurting us:
1-Patriot Act 2-Audit the Federal Reserve and hold them accountable 3-Simplify the Tax code, reduce the rate, remove all loopholes, get the big corps out of our tax code, keep some provisions for the poor 4-Get out of all wars
How can OWS, Paulites, Liberals, Democrates, Republicans, Tea Partiers come together on this? (Especially if we claim that we are the 99%!)
Go to change.org, create a petition on at least one of these points, and get all OWS to sign and email the petition to their congressmen and senators.
Result? They will be receiving 10s of thousands of emails.
I say we focus on the Patriot Act now!
That's a really good idea...
Ron Paul knows that you cannot cure the disease by attacking the symptoms. You must attack the disease itself. The OWS wants to attack the symptoms. But the disease lies within the Federal Reserve and fractional reserve banking and it's inflationary nature.
Disparity of wealth is the #1 cause recognized here at OWS. On that front, there's a pretty widely-held belief that continued deregulation seems unlikely to suddenly start creating jobs at some point. That conflicts directly with Paulite-libertarianism.
Here's what I usually hear said in OWS circles. Corporate and wealth taxes have decreased significantly over the last thirty years, and our financial markets haven't been "freer" in over ninety years. Nevertheless, here we are, staring down the barrel of a potentially worsening financial depression.
In facing this, new financial regulations must block banks from moving core assets into high-risk investments. Financial institutions must not persist in throwing around these loans based on joint holdings based on investments based on expected residual interest based on internal quarterly earnings forecasts based on whether some broker in a power tie had cream cheese or pate on his bagel that afternoon. We cannot play Russian Roulette with the securities underpinning our long-term investments.
Additionally, there's a widespread belief that taxes must increase for the rich. Yes, it's uncomfortable, but taxes on the wealthy are at hundred-year lows, and this, along with ever-more-complex tax shelters based all around the globe, means that the rich are seriously not footing their portion of the bill. We're seeing the results -- failing infrastructure (forget high-speed rail and vertical farms; we've got dams and bridges falling apart, a shaky electrical infrastructure, and a 1950's-era basic transit structure), privatization of basic services (prisons, especially), weakened public services (libraries, education, mental health services -- basic stuff, not socialist handouts), and all the rest.
Finally, we're seeing capital flight. However much we deregulate, there's always some postage-stamp tax haven that can offer sweetheart rates, stronger anonymity, weaker extradition, or whatever. And, we've been implementing weaker market protections for decades, hoping for free trade to start generating wealth. We're still waiting on that boat to come in; meanwhile, the rich are moving their wealth offshore. And, many that aren't stashing it in Southeast Asia or the Caribbean are buying precious metals, art objects/antiques, and other overpriced ephemera -- it's the literal "Scrooge McDuck" plan for asset management. We cannot win that race to the bottom -- we are not a tourist-trap resort island or mountain-valley fiefdom.
Ron Paul wants to step back and let everything sort itself out. Let the states handle it; let businesses just do their thing; it'll all work out as long as we don't pick at it. Yeah, ok, fine. Make the case, but I don't think this is the arena for it to gain traction.
Again, from my own, personal perspective, I know there are far worse GOP candidates, especially in this cycle. There are circumstances under which I might even vote for him. However, it won't be because I think he's going to champion OWS concerns. As an OWS backer, I must stress that while he sees government corruption, he ignores corporate corruption, and that just isn't good enough in this particular arena.
Instead of insisting that the federal reserve needs to be abolished, why not just barter in gold??
Seriously. If you believe Ron Paul's points:
-Federal Reserve Notes are worthless and unreliable
-Taxes are always bad(even though the currency taxed is allegedly worthless)
-Gold has real value
-The Free market can best manage things
If you seriously believe these things, you should merely be laughing at the rest of us that rely on federal reserve notes, while bartering with either gold or gold-backed privately-managed alternative currencies, completely free from the burden of taxes.
If we abolished the federal reserve, you would no longer have the freedom to barter in gold without being taxed, because big government would come in and take it from you. It just doesn't make any sense.
Bottled mercury is what the pro mattress-stuffers are using these days. Plus, break a bottle on a nonporous floor -- heck, cleanup's an evening's fun for everyone! Contact your local chemical supplier!
Excellent post. Too many symptom fighters!
ron paul can go eat a hot bowl of dicks for dinner
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
Yes, there has been a relentless effort by Ron Paul to coopt this movement and all I can say is that R.P. is way too old, way too small, and way too out of thouch to even lead his own movement, much less a global one; and please get it through your head that we don't want ANY leaders!
THANK YOU! Enough with the Ron Paul BS! He will never be President! He's against a woman's right to choose, he spoke @ John Birch Society & he's a racist! "The John Birch Society has some supporters in Congress. Ron Paul of Texas recently argued: "...Lots of people pay lip service to the Constitution, but Birchers study it, understand it, apply it, and are serious about protecting it and holding public officials accountable to it."
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbirchS.htm
Ron Lawl and Libertarians don't believe in regulating the market. They don't believe in government protecting the environment from corporate destruction, they don't believe in a government safety net, universal health care, federal education grants, federal minimum wage, federal worker protections, or anything funded federally, except the military. They think the free market should handle everything. Private industry should be free to discriminate - let the market take care of it. We know how well that worked in the south. They believe government is the enemy, and shouldn't be part of the solution. They would not fix the system, they would leave it to the free market to sort out, and eliminate any government safety nets. Ultimately, they are Social Darwinists. They should give the full truth of their political philosophy.
this
It seems obvious that Ron Paul would change, or be changed once he gets into the white house. I've seen it happen before!
I agree. If Ron Paul, the so called doctor, is so for us- let's see him burn his big fat tax dollar paycheck!
do u know he returns a bunch of money each year and he doesnt partake in the pension scheme. That is about as close to burning a paycheck u will ever see, ever.
how does burning his paycheck prove anything?
It would show that he cares for the common man, and is not in it just for the money, but he is. He's a politician like the rest of them.
what does 'caring for the common man' mean and how does burning a paycheck show that? what do you do to show you are for the common man?
and yes, you are correct in that he is a politician.. but unlike most, he has convictions, and votes transparently according to those convictions. he is the only politician who has never voted for any pork bills. (look up his voting records.. he is known as dr no on the hill0
I think it's because he has been warning about these issues for 30 years and no one would listen. Now the shit has hit the fan and he has been proved right, and his supporters are suddenly not crazy fringe dwellers, but actually have an audience. I can't imagine being an outcast for that long and then being right, I would want to tell people too!
I don't know why I can't edit. Lawl to Paul. Tried 4x's.
At least Ron Paul has accepted the reality that the United States is on the way to becoming second tier economic power, that's more than any other candidate has done. He has accepted the reality that we are now in the Chinese century, the Wall Street/Washington Axis of Evil killed it.
"You can be a part of us, but we definitely don't want Ron Paul as a leader." Who are "we"? I'm sorry to rain on your parade but YOU don't represent each and every person in this nation. There A LOT, and I mean A LOT of Ron Paul supporters who would strongly disagree with you on who "we" want as a leader. Case in point: "Almost every single post is plagued with Ron Paul supporters talking about completely different topics." You'd think people would realize it's because he has A LOT of support.
And who are you to tell me to shut up about Ron Paul? This is a free country (I think it still is) and I'll say what I want to say. You people are saying pretty much what you want to say and doing what you want to do and how long do you think your group would last in other countries where they don't have the freedoms that we have here in the US, one of which is freedom of speech? I would say not very long, not as long as you have lasted here.
So, what do you make of this? I kind of think he has a point (and, yes, this guy is clearly a socialist): http://selectingstones.com/2011/10/23/why-are-there-so-many-ron-paul-supporters-at-occupy-wall-street/
OWS needs to start chanting - we are the 9.9%!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-im-upset-with-the-ron-paul-supporters/#comment-92564
I think this explains my point.
The answer to division is Unity, the best way for us to become ONE is to Do As One, we can achieve that by breathing together synchronously. The word conspire comes from 2 Latin root words: con= with or together, and spirare = breathe. Therefore the true meaning of the word conspire is "to breathe together". Do As One, is a non-profit that promotes Unity by group synchronous breathing. On the website, www.doasone.com there are breathing rooms where we can synchronize our breath. Tomorrow, when this movement goes global, synchronous breathing could be just the thing we need to become One with the many.
create a sub forum to discuss celebrity Names
I see 26 comments, very few, if any specifics.
Ron Paul spoke on the floor of the House against the 1964 Civil Rights bill. Google it or find on the US Congress website. His reasoning is that the Federal Government overstepped its bounds and violated the rights of property owners. This negates one of the noblest reasons for having laws in the first place. To protect the rights of minorities, the oppressed, the vulnerable. But he sided with the lunch counter owners who didn't think the Federal Government should be able to tell them that they can't deny service to black people. That's a big hint right there.
Issue # 2. The Fed. It is amazing how Ron Paul followers have a cult like devotion to their crusade against the Fed. I hate to waste time on something that few people really understand. But that's part of the reason why this is such fertile territory for Paulies. I refute almost all they say about the Fed. How can they see so many ominous practices and at the same time promote the idea that its books are closed. There are countless hours I will never get back debating with Paul followers the gold standard, the structure of the Fed, the money supply or as they like to call it "printing money", inflation, the dollar. It's a real concern that there are huge gaps in their logic and beliefs that they refuse to see. And what about the world after the Fed? This is just a scam to hasten the right wing totalitarianism which is a one percenter's wet dream.
3. How many times have I heard a Ron Paul follower claim that he believes in individual freedoms. Yeah, for property owners. Ha. Seriously he's all over the map on personal freedom. I've tried to make sense of it and all I can see is that if the Federal Government restricts a freedom he's against it. But if a state restricts freedom, he's for it. I don't see a real commitment to freedom as a principle or ideal. He seems more interested in making his point that the states should have more power than the federal government. Because it would be easier to reinstate slavery in a single state rather than try to get the other 49 to go along.
If OWS supported Ron Paul, which won't happen, they might as well just say. Oops, slight mistake. We’re not the 99% after all.
Than you so much for articulating that, we must bring awarness to ron paul and his sinister goals and not allow him to hijack the movement.
Then keep the leftist/socialist tendencies out of it too. Not everyone is a leftist and not everyone thinks we need more regulation and taxes.
That would be attempting to use the corrupt system against itself. A battle that surely will end in failure.
Fair enough. I'm a RP supporter but there is a very broad spectrum of people here and I don't want to hear about socialism so in fairness I will restrain the sharing of the joys of libertarianism.
Please tell your friends to stop their flooding too.
I'm so overfilled with "joy" that I am nauseously repulsed.
There are certain issues where I find myself in agreement with Ron Paul.
That said, I think that many of his supporters joining us at Occupy Wall Street are undermining their candidate's appeal.
I have been at OWS for 14 days. Ron Paul supporters are the only group of people that bring signs that align them with a person as opposed to the idea the occupation represents. They are asking people to put themselves and their future in the hands of a politician, which is contrary to the general undertones of the movement's "we are the people" theme.
I do not contest or criticize their use of free speech; however, their approach has been a turn-off for many people on site and passing by. They tend to mass on a corner (typically Cedar Street and Broadway) and yell their message AT people, instead of engaging them. They thrust their signs and are loud to the point where no one wants to engage them. They are unable to articulate a message that appeals to people other than sentences that start with "Ron Paul says...".
Go for it, if you think that works for you, but I've spent 14 days doing outreach along Broadway and, while boisterous, the Ron Paul crowd has made little headway in attracting people to talk to them. They typically end up talking to each other and, if someone stops to talk with them, they are aggressive in their responses and rarely listen to anyone else's thoughts.
I think Ron Paul is the best informed of the GOP candidates and his understanding of the problems in our economy are unparalleled - possibly across both parties. I think that the chosen approach of his supporters at OWS ends up reflecting poorly on him. This is a movement about ideas. When they fail to communicate or draw people into conversation, they get louder and, in my opinion, somewhat obnoxious. For evidence, I need only point to the Ron Paul supporter who chanted "death to Michael Moore", as Moore spoke to news cameras. I'll also add that the only reason that college student didn't get arrested or pounced on by others in the crow was because I (a man old enough to be his father) came to his defense, got him to calm don, and engaged him in a conversation. You simply can't be taken seriously if your advocacy simply consists of attacks on people you do not agree with.
Conversation let's people release their frustration. Until Ron Paul's visible (carrying signs) supporters begin to tone it down and learn how to communicate, they do themselves and Dr. Paul a great disservice.
amen to that
wow there was a great comment not long ago.. Who deleted it????
regulation is always viewed as positive and desirable. It is like the word protection, it is positive, necessary, and desirable, but protectionism suddenly sounds political and divisive. Regulations in our system have been "co-opted" by the corporatist agenda, and twisted around. What is necessary is simple understandable laws that keep businesses in their place, and out of other parts of the economy where they don't belong. One example is Deposit banking and Investment Banking, separate functions entirely. The Glass-Steagall act of 1932 prevented these entities from operating as one, which protected the market from speculation risks. Later another regulatory act was created in 1980 to keep banks from owning other financial companies, but that was repealed in 1999 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act. This allowed all of the problems that became the mortgage and loan crisis that was a scam of the bankers orchestrated over this last 30+ years. Many saw it coming and warned us, but no one listened. One of those was a significant member of congress, whom you mentioned. That congressman has stood alone against the bankers and corporatist republicans time after time on a number of issues that most people agree on. Also while serving as the majority leader and chairman of the Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology stood up to former goldman sachs banker Ben Bernanke, questioning him relentlessly, and forcing him to expose his lies, while nobody apparently paid any attention. Having achieved this position of authority, it is clear he is one of the most informed on these issues. Look up some info on this candidate and understand his views, since the media won't even mention him most of the time.
Shutting up about Ron Lawl is exactly what the corporations want..
Occupy truth seekers and freedom lovers..
Beware of being co-opted by corporations.
Ron Lawl is the last chance..He is more radially Left than some #occupy demands. Beware of lefty corporations.
I totally disagree with you on this point. I do agree that the system is broken and we all need to come to terms with that. However, this is a fight against the system with the primary system of concern being the banking and monetary system. We have one candidate taking that system on. I do not ask OWS supporters to go out and vote for RP but I do ask that they understand better who we are fighting against and we should welcome anyone who can help us get that message out.
People wanting to regulate banks. They get their money from The Federal reserve. The Federal reserve is a bank. A private bank which lends money to US banks and the world. So Ron Paul's desire to abolish the Fed is taking the head off the problem OWS is pursuing. If you allow the gov to print and lend money then you are in fact completely regulating all operating banks in the US in one step. Get it? The federal reserve is not federal. I think this misunderstanding still persists. You need to understand the Fed is the FATHER of all banks and has ZERO regulation. It is completely outside of regulation. The US government and people OWE the fed trillions of dollars. They are the one's that loan us money.
troll
what is this movement about? Has anyone replying to this forum done their own research on Ron Paul? Ron Paul was originally an individual who went to Rep. side to get a more open political view. People NEVER ELECT individuals into the House.
who will you elect then? or will you elect at all?
it may take longer than a year.... not saying give up, but its a process.
do you understand that this protest may take a year? Why not think about who to elect.....
just choose between Ron Paul or a new world order where all of u are chipped and slaves
Hi Everyone, One of the wonderful things about this movement is we who are protesting are Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. Obviously, we would not be here if either the Dems or Repubs really meant what they stand for. To those who believe the Democrats are better to have in office than Republicans, please consider that since the Great Depression, the Democrats have held control of the Presidency and Congress twice the terms as Republicans. The DEMS are no different then the REPUBS, bought and paid for the corporations! Just one example:The Hedge Fund Political Connection November 05, 2008 by Peggy Barnett; "It was estimated, prior to the October, 2008 stock market crash, that the hedge fund sector had approximately $2 trillion for use as investment capital. Of the money contributed for use in political campaigns, the majority of hedge fund political dollars in the U.S. go to the Democrats, not the Republicans" If this movement has proved anything, it is that people understand that the system, that has been run by BOTH PARTIES, is broken. It did not get this way overnight. People in and outside of our government and in both parties have warned how we would come to this economic ruin because of the corporation-government-organized crime connection, ties and presence over the world. There is a professor in Kentucky by the name of Gary Potter that teaches on this and has followed articles, investigations, trials, and books on this topic for decades. He used to have all this available on line, but his site has been redesigned. I think he has a book now. This info is undisputable and very discouraging because it proves why is it so bad and that these people control so much that without all our REVOLUTION, or AWAKENING TO ETHICS, there is will be no turning it around. Still, there are things that we can do like this movement, like third party voting that can slow them down. Third party voting changes the math of elections, and takes away some of the :swings voters" that each party courts on to win. This will drive each party to look at the positions of the third party that are drawing away swing voters, and they will start moving more in this direction to appeal to these voters. So even if the third part candidate does not win, it has as some positive effects. (The following capitalization is not meant to be yelling, just emphasis.) PLEASE CONSIDER VOTING FOR A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE. WE DON'T HAVE TO AGREE ON WHICH ONE, BUT WE DO NEED TO ULTIMATELY BREAK THE HOLD OF THE DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN PARTIES. AS THIRD PARTY NUMBERS RISE, THIS WILL SEND THE BIGGEST MESSAGE OF ALL. IT WILL AT LEAST SLOW DOWN THE OPPRESSION.
these are the kind of posts that prove my point (though not about Ron Paul)
Humans are by nature peaceful
else human civilization would not exist
If you want to debate Ron Paul and his beliefs or qualifications, fine. But You do not speak for the movement any more than someone who is advocating for Ron Paul, do not make statements like "WE definitely don't want Ron Paul as a leader." Replace we with I, because you do not speak for me. Second, people are bringing to the table the ideas that they believe will improve the country. They aren't just campaigners spamming because they're paid to. You don't see people talking about Romney or Perry, do you? How are we supposed to be a 'movement with a voice' if nobody listens to each other? Why should the media listen to you if you won't even listen to your fellow man?
OpenSky, they are not infiltrating OWS. The fact you even think so means you have no idea of what OWS is about. We are INCLUSIVE. It means that we will accept membership of anyone in the 99%. We NEED people from other ideologies because if we don't have them, we will be seen as an entirely liberal organization and conservatives will turn against us... marginalizing us and causing the movement to fail.
We need as many people as possible to support the move to end corruption and corporate bribes.
Paul is only one seeing the fed and the stupid wars as an issue. Under anyone else out there nothing changes. More fed BS and more war.
He's not perfect but it's a step in the right direction
[Removed]
worship much?
[Removed]
Ron Paul 2012
Ron Paul knows that you cannot cure the disease by attacking the symptoms. You must attack the disease itself. The OWS wants to attack the symptoms. But the disease lies within the Federal Reserve and fractional reserve banking and it's inflationary nature.
Sorry but Ron Paul rocks! At least he's been consistent on his message of Liberty and sound economy
funny how you say we as if you speak for the whole group. Im part of this and I think he is the right man now to make a step in the right direction. he is fighting everything we are protesting about. we may not agree with everything he says but no one will ever agree with another on everything. but the overall message and fight is the same, stop corporate greed and transparency and eventually a phasing out of the FED. what I dont agree on with him is his strict abortion issues and the Gold standard currency he supports. but besides that he speaks for what is best for america. He wont be a leader, he will be part of the change...there is no leader in a restoration of the republic...and stay away from democracy
In addition to Ron Paul wanting to stop wars, shutting down the Fed, legalizing pot and all the issues you LIKE about him, which many of you support (for some unknown reason, besides being well uninformed), did you also know this: • He wants to end Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security - That means Grandma's moving in! • He wants to take away a woman's right to choose - what happened to his mantra of "less government"? Could he be a closet misogynist! • He wants to ELIMINATE public schools – that means your kids will be home all the time, in your face, on your nerves! Keep the insubstantial people uneducated; now that's a good call, huh! • He opposes Universal Health Care - remember "Single Payer" healthcare for all? Same thing! and he's against it. Is he still sounding like a candidate that's going to work for you?!
you might be interested in this: http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-im-upset-with-the-ron-paul-supporters/
your outcome to some of his proposals are drastic. if you listen to what he says he first wants to fix medicare, medicaid, and ss and eventually phase them out but it wont be done over night cause that will be stupid. but remember these programs are socialist programs and this is not a socialist country. we have been used to this idea of sharing our money with the rest but its not what this country was founded on. when it comes to SS he first wants to give the youth the option of joining it and not be forced into it. no one should force you to pay for SS. its an option but know when you get older you wont receive a benefit. but thats your choice.as for medicare and medicaid other socialist systems that need to be removed but if you get big GOV out of the health industry then there will be healthier people cause there will be more private competition with healthcare. everyone wins. as to stop a womans right? i think he comes from a doctors point of view, i slightly disagree with him on this but not fully. I dont believe in abortion, only in cases of rape and possible incest, but thats my opinion. but he wont force that rule on everyone cause he cant. he will leave that up to the states to decide. not the federal government. is less govment power and more decisions for the states. um im against universal healthcare, i know it sounds good but in essence in will take away the rights of doctors and force citizens to once again share the wealth which is a socialist idea. when there is healthy competition everyone has the oportunity to get cheap healthcare. under obama your forced into it, loss of freedom
Wow! You are so typical of what the youth of our country are hearing and believing without really knowing much about the history of our country or how things work far better in other countries. He's not going to "fix" medicare, medicaid and social security; he's going to totally abolish it. This is why we need Universal Health care FOR ALL! No, it won't take away any rights for doctors; where are you getting your information? If anything, it will give doctors more choices because they'll be competition for drugs and such, thus cheaper costs. If everyone pays into it according to their earnings, then yes, it will work because the wealthy will pay more. Check out all other industrialized countries health care; it works for them and they love it. Yes, this is a partial socialist country and it's been working for decades. Do you know what that word means? What if we didn't have police, firefighters, post offices, teachers, etc. This country would be in total chaos or run as a dictatorship! We don't have total socialism but the word is not a negative term; republicans have made it one! Regarding social security, you're naive to think that it should be a choice. SS has worked ever since it was created. Once again, republicans have spun this to have the masses think differently because they want to get rid of it. Yes, it should be mandatory so that your sick grandmother doesn't have to die on the streets because you "choose" not to provide for her, or can't! Also, when the elderly haven't been able to SAVE for retirement because our wages didn't keep up with inflation, what the hell are they supposed to do! Private competition for healthcare? You're dreamin', darlin', cause already doctors are being bribed, bought and scammed! I know because I've been an advocate for my elderly father-in-law and they are all trying to rip off the system. Private competition with healthcare does not make healthy people; your age is showing here. This is why we need a SOCIALIST, universal healthcare, single payer healthcare. When everybody pays into it, everybody uses it when needed. The healthy need to pay into it, too, so when the population gets old and need it, the youth will be helping them and on and on and on. This system works! It's NOT broken; the republicans are spinning lies about it because they want the masses to live in poverty. Unfortunately, we just don't have it here. Ask any European how they like their healthcare system!! And as far as abortion goes, you weren't here when women were out protesting for that right because so many women were bleeding to death or suffering profusely because of botched, backroom abortions. Desperation will ensue with many women who will go to extremes to not bring a fetus to full-term. Once again, go read some history. One of Ron Paul's political mantras is to make government smaller; so how hypocritical is he to tell women how to choose what is best for their lives. I'm so sick of these men egregiously demanding to control what is best for women. Every politician needs to get out of that issue and all the other social issues they want to CONTROL! Did you know there are some misogynist MEN in congress right now presenting bills to do away with the pill!! It's unbelievable but it's true. They want to take women back to the dark ages and if people don't vote in the next election, they may succeed. If you don't agree with a woman's right to choose, don't have an abortion, but otherwise, it is no one else's business. After all, you don't have to live with that decision. Same as with gays. You don't have to agree with a person wanting to love someone of their same sex, but don't tell them how to live their lives. It's their life! If we leave all of these issues with the states, then the demographics of our country will become so skewed and our country will break down into smaller countries. It will be a friggin' mess. So take some time and go read some of the history of our country. Franklin Roosevelt was a fabulous progressive and he pulled our country out of a deep depression by standing up to the extreme idiots who are now the republicans. We need another Franklin Roosevelt and we need her now!
"We need her now." Love it. Agreed.
What have you got against using paragraphs?
go read a book
Hey what do you expect the main street media ignores this candidate and does not give him a fair platform. No wonder people are desperate to get his name out. Blame it on the media that picks winners and limits free speech.
You know who would be a good leader for OWS? Ron Paul. haha, JK. But seriously, Ron Paul has some good ideas. He at least seems to be a purer candidate on the Republican side.
Since when.You cant just downplay the movements desire for someone who signifies with us thats our right.You have no right to tell other americans shut up.would you rather we end up with cain or any of the other idiots.Common.
People just love their servitude.
Tighten the legiron on one side, loosen it on the other, and that will make everything all right.
Over 1 Quadrillion dollars of derivatives were create in the last boom. The only way to save the banking system is to print money to make it 'go away'.
If you don't understand that this utterly destroys your prospects for a prosperous future, if you don't understand that this represents the hugest wealth transfer in the history of humanity, if you don't understand that this is being papered over with YOUR standard of living, and if you advocate ANYTHING other than permanently removing the power to print money in secret, then you are a shill for the man behind the curtain whether you know it or not.
We will keep reminding you of this until you find some way to shut us up. Good luck with that. Keep your blinders on! It's too disturbing to contemplate, isn't it? There is an economic depression coming. And you are going to be part of another October Revolution, if the man behind the curtain can get you to throw the rest of your own freedom into the ashbin of history.
SHUT UP............has NOTHING to do with democracy or the First Amendment!
SHUT UP....is DICTATORSHIP!
Now you want a conversation? or a debate? I am all for it. But INFILTRATION?????
INFILTRATION TO ENSURE THIS MOVEMENT WILL FAIL you mean.
And I am talking about YOU who wants to DIVIDE AND CONQUER!
the oldest technique on the books to ensure the failure of a citizens uprising!
Ron Paul knows that you cannot cure the disease by attacking the symptoms. You must attack the disease itself. The OWS wants to attack the symptoms. But the disease lies within the Federal Reserve and fractional reserve banking and it's inflationary nature.
Tone it down, man : /
People have a right to support Ron Paul.
They do, but its time that they understand that our movement isn't about a candidate for election. It's about the 99% vs the corporate taint on our political system. I just wish they wouldn't use our forum for campaign recruitment. Perhaps I was a bit harsh, but you should see what's going on on all the forum posts. Almost every single post is plagued with Ron Paul supporters talking about completely different topics. They just look at a post with lots of views, then copy/paste their statements into the thread and head on to the next one. It completely hijacks the conversation and prevents people and the OP from talking about the original topic.
I do see your point, I just think we have to be a little bit more civil here. There are libertarians who are involved in the process and there are those that spam partisan links. Let's not forget that we knew this process would not be easy. We're welcoming the entire country to OWS. There are people within the 99% who are vastly different from each other, but we need them all on our side if we're going to win our government back.
He's the only one remotely close to the ideals people want. The media hates him and ignores him.
RON PAUL is better than the illuminati leaders .... wake up people ! u will arrive to a place and u will regret and say we should have been voted to RON PAUL and lived a better life OR ENJOY THE NEW WORLD ORDER MAKING U ALL SLAVES