Shut Down Wall Street on the Water Front
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 5, 2011, 12:10 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
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Wholeheatedly wish you a huge success!! Show them "Yes, we can!" IN SOLIDARITY!
Shutdowns are very good tactics. My opinion is that we now should start organizing an increasing number of strikes in addition to everything else. What do you folks think about that. Do you agree?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMa40a_OH5o
yours s. struggleforfreedom
Yes but there are a lot of protestors who need donated coats too.
yes I aggree, hit them in the pocketbook the only thing they understand
people paying into the system is keeping it alive. Everybody should just stop paying, & start making the State pay for everything you need. It belongs to the people, not the State. They agreed to pay ALL charges with the introduction of fiat currency.. That is how they got away with stealing the gold from the people. Stop paying & the Beast will die. No taxes, no utilities. demand payment from the people sending the letters! It is they who are agreeing that payment is due. Not the people they send 'Bills' to. The People owe nothing to nobody. Only money made as profit from capital used in the stock exchange is LAWFULLY taxable... A true Bill must have a signature, & there must be contract between 2 living beings. Worth looking up
Ever hear of the The United States Constitution Amendment 16 ?
I wonder have you ever thought about where the state will get that money that it should pay you, and I wonder why you should get anything if you don't contribute to the creating of that wealth that you want to redistribute.
I have no wish to create wealth. I want the God-given right to grow food myself, (which has just been outlawed, because nutrients are 'toxins, according to codex Alimentarius.) & live off the land, earning my food nurtured by my own work. it is not a right to have fresh healthy food or water, it is a privilege, (words from Obama to California water..) I want to have clean water to drink without fluoride or lithium in it. The pursuit of wealth is what has poisoned the food & water supply, & the World, even. I can do without it. Govt cannot CLAIM the water because It did not CREATE it.. I don't have a 'Hive mentality'. I don't want to redistribute anything. I don't want payment for anything. I want to be capable of taking care of my own family instead of being FORCED to depend on the State, (Which I have never actually seen.) I am not a corporation, i am human. I want to live like a human, not a human guinea pig..
I wonder if you have really ever thought about what you say you want.
Today in 2011 60% of the population of earth can not fulfill “the God-given right to grow food myself” and in the United States 90% and why? They don’t know how! And to feed your self effectively YOU MUST CREATE WEALTH! Not necessarily monetary wealth but wealth none the less. You have to be able to grow enough food for you and others as well, because you have to trade? You have to have shoes, clothes, building materials, fuel, medicine, tools and more. So you want to live without wealth? The go back to the age of stone! Before trade, before money, before medicine before civilization.
.By the by good luck with that?
While most people will cringe at the thought of having a rat for a pet, believe it or not, domestic rats make great pets! They are not aggressive, diseased and dirty animals, but in fact are clean, fun loving, sensitive, very social and affectionate. They genuinely enjoy interacting with people and should be handled daily. Rats are very intelligent and can be taught simple tricks, such as stay and sit and will often learn their name. They can also be litter box trained. Rats will often develop a connection with their owner, wanting daily attention. They will enjoy playing and snuggling with their owners. Rats that are well handled from birth are very friendly towards humans and very rarely bite. Children should be taught not to stick their fingers in the cage if their hand smell like food. Even the most friendly rat may be tempted to take a taste. Rats require time, interaction, and upkeep. Because rats are very social animals they can get bored easily and it is a good idea to have more than one rat. Having two rats is no more work than having only one. Two rats will be entertaining to watch and will take some of the stress off of you in having to entertain them. If you keep more than one rat be sure to either have two males or two females or get your rats spayed and neutered to avoid any unwanted breeding. However if your rat is overly aggressive with other rats you may have to keep it all by itself. When you purchase your rat be sure the place you obtain your rat from keeps males and females separated. Since a rat can get pregnant at the young age of 5 weeks old, you don't want to purchase a pregnant rat and end up with more rats then you planned for! When choosing your rat, choose one that does not appear skittish or does not squeal when picked up. Males tend to be calmer than females. Males usually enjoy being held for longer amounts of time especially as they get older. Males may start to mark their territory as it matures. Getting your male neutered may help with this. Females tend to be more active than males. Toys and accessories can be provided for your rat such as tubes, hammocks, fruit tree branches, paper towel and toilet paper roles plant pots and anything else that does not have a sharp edge to it can be provided for your rats enjoyment. Keep in mind that they will chew what you give them.
I agree. Think of how others make money off of us. We need to figure a way to strike against greed with an empty hand. The rich shall no longer reach in your pockets endlessly. "What about the comforts of life though"... will you give up your voice, your liberty, you nature/god given right of free will to have a few necessities? ( which is chosen for you by the powerful and the rich).
This sound like a very good idea. shut them down! any plans for NY port shutdown? also are donated coats coming?
I agree. The shutdowns should be symotainist from East to West!
Some people keep their rats inside the house while others keep them in outside sheds or garages. Keeping a pet rat indoors is recommended as they may not get the attention they need if they are kept in a garage or a shed. Rats can live in aquariums with a wire or mesh screen top or in wire cages. However aquariums are not recommended as they do not provide adequate ventilation. The larger your rats cage the happier he will be. When looking for a rat cage, look for cages made for rabbits, ferrets, chinchillas or parrots. Often times a cage at a pet store, shown as a rat cage is only big enough for a gerbil or hamster. Rats need more room than hamsters or gerbils. Shredded paper, shredded cardboard, hay, straw, hemp, paper based cat litters, and or clothing can be used for the bedding (keep in mind the rat will chew the clothing so be sure to only use clothing you no longer want). Pine and cedar wood chips should be avoided as the fumes from these beddings can cause respiratory damage.
What do these shutdowns accomplish? Political action for no purpose is anarchy. This entire movement smells of a lack of rational leadership. Honestly, I was initially interested in the movement because I had hoped that it would actually push for real political change - to get money out of politics. Now all I see is pitiful emotional hysterics that become less and less convincing as anything more than juvenile revolt.
Emotional? I don't think so. IMO, OWS has very smart and effective strategies in terms of building its public base. Pushed money out of politics in 2 months after OWS was born? Umm ... I wish that too but it would be a miracle. This is not a realistic expectation for a people movement. One step at a time. Now we are spreading out the messages, building up networks and raising public's awareness on what have been going so wrong for so long in our political system, government corruption, corportes' greed and the problemetic financial system that caused the housing crisis and this whole economy downturn. The public needs time to absorbs all the information and join in the force before we can put our agenda on the table with our politicians. Top GOP strategist Frank Luntz (who has been helping GOP framing the issues for years to win elections) even said to Republicans just recently that OWS scares him to death because "it's having an impact". Google him and read the article that came out on Dec 1.
An intentional half truth or distortion is still a lie! I wonder if yours was intentional?
http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/05/gop-message-massager-frank-luntz-in-the
for what is more truthful!
Shut downs have a huge impact in the disproportionate wealth distribution in our country. It strikes the 1% where it matters most to them = their pocketbook. The purpose of a shut down is to demonstrate how reliant the 1% is on the cooperation of the 99% and what happens when the cooperation is withdrawn. As for political change: We have arrived at this juncture of 1% exploiting the 99% because the means of politcal change do not work. Our current campaign finance laws put our elected officials and thus our government up for sale to the highest donors. The result: 99% of the people have no real representation in their government. The change will not happen from within our legislature. With the exception of a handful of honest legislators the rest are indentured servants of the 1%. OWS has it right: claim and occupy public space to create an meeting place for people to develop the strategy for taking their government back. There are no simple answers. This has to grow from the grass roots up and not from the top down.
look deeper... I'm sure that I will not agree 100% with ows or anybody else...I do support ows, no matter. Please, you can change the 'pitiful emotional hysterics etc with a good suggestion or better yet do it in person...
I too had hope for change
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This is so inspiring. Solidarity to the ILWU, to Occupy Oakland, to all the participating West Coast Occupy groups. Just beautiful and inspiring to see workers, students and other groups working together in common, militant struggle.
Wishing west coast Occupiers the best success. You are the best!
This is unbelievable, this movement is so important, I don't even know what words to use. In case everyone doesn't know this (I had to ask for clarification), the workers, the longshoremen themselves, cannot strike in their own name--it's actually illegal. I hadn't understood that.
So that's why it's so important that activists are creating picket lines that the longshoremen can't cross, which is like forcing the longshoremen to involuntarily strike--just brilliant.
As I watched this incredibly inspiring video, I realized how OWS has tied its actions from the beginning to the struggles of working people. OWS isn't limited to a student movement, and in the brief time of less than three months is already engaging with mass working-class unions. This is such a powerful development, I don't think even we realize what's happened yet, the full extent of it. But you can be sure the capitalists do. The linking up of powerful workers unions with a burgeoning mass movement is one of the most dangerous challenges possible to the capitalist 1%, and even if they aren't saying so, they sure know it.
In the Vietnam war, the warmakers knew full well that mass mobiliations of millions of working people represented the potential to overthrow their system. At the same time Nixon was inside the White House, pretending to be watching a football game, someone in his administration looked outside at the million-plus people demonstrating against the war, and said it looked like the Russian Revolution. Those mass mobilizations and the courageous struggle of the Vietnamese eventually ended the war.
This movement is growing deep roots into the working class and affecting the consciousness of the entire country. What an incredible development, and we are enormously grateful to what the activists and leaders (yes, leaders, there's a lot of planning going on, and it's great) of the Occupies are doing. And what a great video! THX!!!
I just want to add that it's very important that Occupy has pointed out the connection between the longshoremen's struggle against Goldman Sachs as part of the 1%. You are educating all of us. Thanks again for your wonderful courage and activism.
Goldman Sachs has gambled on the output of its slaves the longshoremen to keep the cash running into the banks to make the fat bankers fatter. If our economy tanks the bankers will lose a lot of money. Then we need to issue a new currency and REFUSE to accept FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES from this FOREIGN OWNED BANK that controls our money supply and makes artificial ups and down of the market to take the money of investors in a very EVIL WAY insider trading. The congress knows how this foreign BANK is making money and they too want to play in the money river, JUST LIKE THE BANKS DO. Insider trading is illegal and I think we have a case to prosecute this huge bank for illegal manipulation of our economy and seize all of the assets of the bank and put them back into our country where they came from. They have ILL GOTTEN GAINS. And we CAN take that back from criminals.
I agree. The Federal Reserve and the Banks Create Money Out of Thin Air and charge the U.S. Taxpayers Interest on the Money the Banks Created Out of Thin Air. True Story. Amazingly, this Process is "Legal". The 1% has enough printed money to buy the best lawyers, lobbyists and politicians to do whatever they want and we the U.S. Taxpayers are paying the bill. Fair-ness.
and they use the IRS to collect those funds backed my own own army. we are forced by law to use federal reserve notes in our business dealings. This must end. OWS get on it. “What better way to enslave a man then to give him a vote and tell
he is free".
replace the federal reserve notes issued by a private bank with something better that is not subject to them printing more when they want more money. How can they loan money they do not have? it is just so wrong. notes our fed gov makes and backs with gold and silver, would be a good replacement. in the mean time quit accepting the "funny money" from the feds, demand food instead or good in payment.
"Digital Coin" is an Excellent Idea and this is the Right Time for it. Google On.
I googled it it was very interesting. Digital coins, backed by real goods and services. And no more coin hordes.
Bed bugs live in any articles of furniture, clothing, or bedding, so they or their eggs may be present in used furniture or clothing. They spread by crawling and may contaminate multiple rooms in a home or even multiple dwellings in apartment buildings. They may also be present in boxes, suitcases, or other goods that are moved from residence to residence or from a hotel to home. Bed bugs can live on clothing from infested homes and may be spread by a person unknowingly wearing infested clothing.
What are the symptoms and signs of bed bug bites? Bed bugs bite and suck blood from humans. Bed bugs are most active at night and bite any exposed areas of skin while an individual is sleeping. The face, neck, hands, and arms are common sites for bed bug bites. The bite itself is painless and is not noticed. Small, flat, or raised bumps on the skin are the most common sign; redness, swelling, and itching commonly occur. If scratched, the bite areas can become infected. A peculiarity of bed bug bites is the tendency to find several bites lined up in a row. Infectious-disease specialists refer to this as the "breakfast, lunch, and dinner" sign, signifying the sequential feeding that occurs from site to site. Bed bug bites may go unnoticed or be mistaken for flea or mosquito bites or other types of rash or skin conditions, since they are difficult to distinguish from other bites. Bed bugs also have glands whose secretions may leave odors, and they also may leave dark fecal spots on bedsheets and around their hiding places (in crevices or protected areas around the bed or anywhere in the room). Bed bugs have not been conclusively proven to carry infectious microbes. However, researchers have implicated bed bugs as possible vectors of American trypanosomiasis (Chagas disease), and studies are ongoing to determine whether bed bugs may serve as disease carriers.
hu?
I am Amazed at the moaning, groaning and pitching a fit! But I see no real solutions (digital coins please) other than a “Take from the rich” I see nothing but bull sh!t
just think of all the wealth of the u s people, natural resources that was wasted by the 1% from the start of our country, the wars, military industrial complexes and all that money came from the 99 and all the credit it created...
balance the budget by getting the money back that was stolen from us thru insider trading. Gather our armies and prepare to take back what was stolen from us by this FOREIGN BANK. Criminals can not hide in a bank and steal with no consequence.
Absolutely Spot On!
The Nixon story is another half truth.
Things that happened on this day that you never had to memorize in school
November 15 1969: Over 500,000 people march on Washington, rallying in front of the White House, to protest war in Vietnam, while Pres. Nixon watches Purdue-Ohio State football game on TV. The rally concludes with nearly 40 hours of continuous reading of known U.S. deaths (to that date) in Vietnam War.
Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2721543
Please note the estimate (500,000 + ) not Millions
Nixon was also drunk, as usual...most of his appointments did some federal jail time....from his vp to the watergate burglars....thanks breadlandpeace, nice to see a thoughtful commmet
Hi, I haven't been on the website for a couple days, thanks for the comments. I meant that millions of people over the course of the anti- Vietnam war movement demonstrated across the country, and I'd forgotten the details of that march in 1969, although I was there, I was in one of the groups that organized it (wasn't there another one, on October 15th that year, the Moratorium?). But it probably was close to a million people, because the police always gave out low numbers.
hi, in 1967 my student deferment was over and I took an opportunity to study and work in a democratic country in the mideast, yeah there is one. that was the nonviolent resistance action, i thought was best at the time. In '73 I did go to DC, saw Joan Baez and Woody, that was after I was the guest of the feds at their Club Fed for violation of the selective service act. It was really an experience, although a little too long, 9mos. At that time they used firehoses and dogs...seriously now, the 99 really have a chance and will succeed because of the internet, arab spring and maybe more will actually read the constitution and amendments .....
Hi, thanks for your comments, and sorry I'm not keeping up with the website daily right now during some important deadlines. Wow, you were in jail for nine months? That's terrible.
I want to concur with what you said about succeeding, and mention that I learned from being in the SWP (Socialist Workers Party) that revolutionaries have always used a newspaper to organize a movement--and now we have the internet, infinitely more powerful. Eugene Debs, in the early 20th century, had a newspaper--he was a socialist who ran for president. The Bolsheviks had their newspaper, Iskra ("The Spark"); Malcolm X had a newspaper (was it Muhammad Speaks? I can't remember). And the SWP had/has The Militant. I think these publications served the function of organizing groups of people, sometimes large numbers. And it worked, so imagine what can happen (and has, as you stated, with the Arab Spring) using the Internet.
Thank you so much, and Solidarity.
solidarity
I can not open the vidio but I agree with you.
What good are unions then? I want unions, but if they can't strike, or if they can as it is per law but replacement workers can be hired temporarily until the strike is done, what good are they ?
Go the 99%!!!
We CAN. We can believe, we can hope. We CAN. And with solidarity strong, and love in our hearts, we will.
WE ARE THE WORLD. WE ARE WATCHING.
look to Poland to see how they threw their masters off (Soviet Union) work stoppages were part of it.
thank you, I want to look into this.
Read a book called, "small acts of resistance"...... It details non-violent successful revolutions from around the world....
In one instance, an entire nation overthrew their dictatorship, by simply taking their T.V. for a stroll....yes, for a stroll, in a shopping trolley, for half an hour a night....
What!? Thanks for your reply, I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner, I haven't been on the website for a couple days. I'll look for that book. Thank you.
a slave that is not working angers the master
let the slave revolution begin!
Its going to really take once the weather gets warm! You can't kill an idea that's taken off! Revolt!!
how is a successful slave revolution carried out and what happens to the "masters"? when we catch them?
Have you ever seen war of the worlds?
Yes!
Read a book called, small acts of resistance...... It details non-violent successful revolutions from around the world....
yes we can oaktown, 12/12
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Dec 12. Great stuff.
Hi this is SErgey from occupyNY movement. we are in need for coat donors. AS winters coming upon us we need to be able to stand out in the cold against the tyranny of those who control the realms of the 99%. Please Message me and give a a+1 so my comments float to the top.
I got coats. Where do I send them. Im in the Dc.Md.Va area.
Hi Mimi, yes thanks for your offer. What kind of coats are they? New/Used? We have many needs for coats. Its tax deduction too.
winter coats for women med to lgr. one is sheepskin
Excellent.
We The People on The East Coast are In Total Solidarity with the West Coast Blockade!
Disarm the plutocrats....are you listening Lloyd?????
Shut them all down!!!!!!
I agree, SOLIDARITY, Yes We Can! This is very Inspiring and Courageous. Be Strong and Protect One Another.
l expres my strong soliderity with liberate wall street and the GREAT american nation, l believe that they can, yes you can ,
My objection to this shutdown is that it has NOTHING to do with trade inbalances, jobs being shipped overseas and continued erosion of jobs even as investment money on wall street is used to provide offshore competition for local businesses.
slaves not working will anger the masters (banks)
you are right..what if it is some kind of obfuscation ???a good time to occupy, at a different location...
I like the idea of saving homes, that will surely help at least some of these same union workers anyways, plus, all other kinds of 99%r's.
definately, people need to know that mgt co's & banks sold mortgages, some not appropriate, that were later put together then divided up ?? a real big mess. The real problem is the the mgt holder, home owner, got sold or stuck with a bad product, but who got the gov's help, bailout ??? yeah right...
You all are actually going to take on shippers and their workers? Better compose your wills now. You have no clue that they don't like protesters. Good luck on that front.
I have to believe that the 1% and their Sheriffs will have their deputies out in full force. Fair-ness.
By right they should........OWS just doesnt get it that you are continually striking at the 99%. That's the unfortunate result of your whatever you are calling it that you all are doing......You are hurting the WRONG team
The problems are in WASHINGTON starting with that community activist that sits in the White House.
The problem is capitalism. Washington is a sideshow to that.
Its The Congress! ! ! ! Not The President.Occupy Congress! !
Yeah them, too!
That's true, maybe the 1% are hoping, no, counting on a civil war between the have's and have not. They would have yet another distraction hoisted on us which we might have unwittingly helped along. This is not to denigrate the efforts of occupy oakland, but I'm getting a bad feeling about this action.
Sick of paying rent? Was that really in the song's lyrics? Even homeowners pay property taxes twice a year that can equal yearly rent, add in more than one type of homeowners insurance, plus maintenance and even homeowners who own their homes have monthly obligations that can be construed as rent.
Then factor in that at least half the country lives in homes that are still being paid off, that is like rent.
I do think that renters should get a renters credit, although I have the feeling that the apartment owners would raise the rent to offset that gain.
My wife questioned those lyrics. I told her that it doesn't at all capture the esence of the truth of this phenomenon!!
if you are "paying off" a home you are a slave to that debt. Stop working and everything you worked for for 25 years is taken from you for missing one payment. How fair is that? Sounds like a "deal" a slave owner would give his slave, or a bank owner would give to a borrower, see parallel?. Bet it all on if I keep giving you work (says the banker). When you are just about to pay off your home and stop being a slave to your master. The master makes the economy turn down and you lose your job then house to the FOREIGN BANK that ownes it, and has the power to cause the economy to go up and down as per their choice so to make even more money. Then home prices fall and the FOREIGN BANK buys up all the empty homes at bargain basement prices and then when they allow the economy to begin to rise again and everyone feels comfortable to carry more debt they re-sell the homes again to people who can barely or not afford them and the cycle of manipulation repeats. Those that control the money control the economy and they also control all the debt. Time for gov to fold and so the debt will go with it. Like what happened in the Soviet Union collapse. Then replace gov with a newer and better form of representative democracy. That will hold the citizen higher than any other thing.
Even after abolition some slaves got a better deal, 40 acres and a mule. I'd take that in a heartbeat if someone offered me that now.
that is true but give a slave a little bit of freedom and only take 30% of his output and he will work a lot harder than if you take it all, slave
I'm not arguing that point. I agree that foreclosures in which homeowners lose their down payment is bunk.
But sick of paying rent implies someone should get to live somewhere for free.
no free rides
you heard lessthan half of the lyric "sick of paying rent,working don't know where my money is going" sounds like "the 99% "living from paycheck to paycheck!!
I didn't say all the lyrics were bad. I think "sick of paying rent sounds good musically", but I don't think it helps the cause the way the rest of the lyrics do. Just sayin.
We'll never reach the true, passionate majority if we focus on entitlements rather than protecting what we already have. If we protect what we already have, we can generate more for our fellow 99%'rs.
If we demand more entitlements from the rich, we will be seen in the way that Adam Carolla describes us. http://occupynews.blogspot.com/2011/12/adam-carollas-strange-twisted-slightly.html
Or we can protect what we still have and create real methods for negotating with the banks, such as justifiable debt restructure.... http://occupynews.blogspot.com/2011/11/justifiable-debt-restructure-would.html
I agree. Nicely put!
Spoken like someone with a property portfolio exploiting the basic human need for shelter.
Spoken like someone with a food portfolio exploiting the basic need for food by keeping the discussion focused on exploiting the basic human need for shelter.
On the contrary, demand free food, free shelter and freedom. That is go beyond capitalism where a parasitic layer dictates the terms of everyone's eating, sheltering and being.
i hope people show up for this. we need big numbers. there have been too many disappointing turn-outs for actions announced on this page and this is undermining belief in the movement
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The President of the U.S. was a community organizer but is now the leader of the free world. If the congress does not comply with what is right for its people, he may ask them to look out the window to see the 99%.
This is bigger than wall Street. We shouldn't get distracted. Our problems are much bigger. We need a better strategy with a smarter way to fight back.
JOIN THE REVOLUTION Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( www.revolution2.osixs.org )
please remember who we are and what are are working towards. in order for this movement to grow exponentially, we need the support of the police. we will not get it be taunting them or yelling at them. we will not get it by pointing cameras at their every movement, with expectation of something remarkable for youtube. we need to speak to them like the brothers and sisters they are. we need to soften their hearts, and open their eyes. at the very least, we need to give them reason to uphold their oaths, rather then follow orders. befriend them. they are one of us. if we can sway the police to join us, then their will be no one to protect the one percent. we can be unstoppable.
I believe that your right. We must focus on the power of peace.
I agree with you to a point. How the hell do you get them out of their riot gear and stop Beating on People??!! Those pictures speak a thousand words. maybe,just maybe if these very cops saw themselves on camera,on film,livestream and utube, then is there a possibility the cops will see just how brutal they are to their fellow citizens. They got mothers,wives,sisters ,brothers and children...I know some relative has seen them beating the shit out of people. They have to say something!!!
http://waitingforthestorm.com/an-open-message-to-police-military
how come they have all the money and we are in debt? good luck my brothers and sisters in stopping their money stream! we must stop their economy in its tracks and build our community everywhere! THIS LAND IS OUR LAND!!
time for general strikes like in Poland years ago. Days of no work make your output drop and the banks (masters of you by debt) that control you will not be happy, because. A slave must be able to produce more than what it costs to take care of the slave (food housing clothes) so there is excess production that can be taken by the master of the slave. It used to be that slaves wore shackles but they found out that if you gave the slave a little bit of freedom, and some more of what he produces, he will work HARDER and be willing to work hard for 65 hours knowing he will get lots of cash to spend all the while while producing huge amounts of excess production. If the FREE SLAVES would work less their value as a slave falls as there is no excess production, the slave only supports himself and no extra for the masters. So the masters are counting (interest) on excess production. To have a successful slave revolt the slaves need to produce no excess production, then the slave owner (bank) would have no income, and would begin the very slow process of shriveling on thew vine. Now a subject that will probably bring a lot of negative posts, but I don't care. Jesus as I can remember only got angry and violent once. That was when he went to the temple and overturned the tables of the MONEY CHANGERS, so who are the money changers today? that he was angry with 2000 years ago? Bankers. The one group that Jesus got the most angry and violent towards. Did he know the future that the money changers would take? he must have!. He hated the EVIL there at the temple, and acted against the evil. What would Jesus say today about the banks that control our currency? EVIL or good? This was the only time I remember this usually peaceful person being angry and doing violent things, so it must have some significance. OK sorry for religious reference bit it just seemed to fit with his discussion of money and debt.
I love this Idea and only hope that we all can get across All American Ports shut down on Monday. That is since it is Now called Green Monday and stores are to be giving deals like that of Black Friday. Thing is they only sell what is coming during this time period, so we need to Fill the stores up as well as shut down the ports for this time period so no one makes any money for the Bankers to put into Wall Street until we get the point across. We need Job's and if that trickle down is working, I sure would like to know were at. I know it is not working but they are getting richer, so why not make a run on all of the big banks as well. I have my money safe in my little local Credit Union and these people work with me all the time, but I tried working with the Big Banks and only got screwed, so back to my local Credit union and now I have my home back all because the big banks do like my Credentials, Well I don't like theirs either.
Keep it up, OWS!
good luck. but remember the press is gonna ignore this. we need to keep it up & keep hittin them harder
Way to go Fellow Workers . You caa bet the 1% will be watching on what happens . this is a Great movement whose time has come . Power to the Workers !
Do you know that no bank lends money deposited with it?
Do you know that when a bank lends money it CREATES it out of nothing?
Do you know that bank loans are merely pen and ink entries in the credit columns of a bank's ledger? They have no other existence.
Do you know that practically all the money in the community comes into circulation as a debt to the banks?
Do you know that money loaned by a Government bank is just as much a debt to the people as if it were loaned from a private bank?
Do you know that “fixed deposits” are a plausible screen to hide the creation of credit?
Did it ever occur to you that the banks enjoy this unique facility of creating credit and putting the nation progressively into debt-bondage because they create FINANCIAL credit against the REAL credit created by the people?
Do you realize that every time a Government borrows money for a public work, the people are debited with the liability (in perpetuity), but are never credited with the value of the asset?
Do you know that every repayment of a bank loan cancels the amount of the loan out of existence?
Do you know that Treasury Notes are Government I.O.U.'s — national pawn tickets for pledging the assets of the country to the banks for the loan of OUR OWN financial credit?
Do you know that banks purchase bank sites, build premises, and acquire assets at no real cost whatever to themselves — by the simple process of honoring their own checks?
You may dismiss these affirmations as “incredible”, or “absurd”, but if you will read on, each one will be proved beyond all shadow of doubt.
Most of us have grown up with only the vaguest notions of money. We are fairly certain that it is the Government's right to print notes and mint coins. For the rest, our knowledge is distinctly foggy.
Most people, for example, labor under the impression that the only money in the community is notes, silver, and copper. But this is a very, very small part of the community's money.
In fact, notes, silver, and copper — legal tender — is used for less than five per cent of the total purchases made. Over 95 per cent of all business is done by checks.
This check currency is really bank-created money — bank credit — but it functions exactly the same as legal tender money. Banking authorities of world-wide repute state that banks can and do create credit up to nine or ten times their cash resources.
Banks go to great pains to perpetuate the fiction that they are merely “the custodians of their customers' deposits” — that they lend these deposits, and that their profit consists of the difference in the rate of interest which they pay to depositors, and the interest they receive from borrowers. Such an idea is quite wrong, and it is the popular acceptance of this major monetary fallacy which gives rise to most of the false notions upon the subject of money.
The facts about money are as follows: —
(1) Banks do not lend money deposited with them.
(2) Every bank loan or overdraft is a creation of entirely new money (credit), and is a clear addition to the amount of money in the community.
(3) No depositor's money is used when a bank lends money.
(4) Practically all the money in the community begins its life as an interest-bearing debt to the banks.
The technique of a bank loan
All that a bank does in lending anybody, say $1,000, is to open an account in the borrower's name — if he hasn't already got an account — and write Limit: $1,000, across the top of the ledger. The borrower is now free to operate and overdraw on this account to the limit indicated.
When the account is drawn on the check, and in turn the check is lodged in another account at the same or another bank, a “deposit” is thus created, and the supply of money increased. Thus bank loans create “deposits”, which plainly are not the source of loan money but, rather, the other way around, they are the outcome of loans.
A must read for our movement! http://www.economist.com/node/21533400
The only people that will be hurt by this is the working class. This loss of revenue for one day will affect prices only. The 1% will not be hurt by this. Many truck drivers, retail store employees, and the workers involved for this commerce will be affected. The CEO salaries will remain the same. This is a bad idea and I don't see the justice in this action.
Protests should be at the government not against people who are currently working.
What is this movement trying to accomplish? I am a curious student. The impression I got was to hurt large corporations. How does this help the American people?
Support you all the way!
lets do it. But. If you do, let someone who is on the top of things let our brothers and sisters know what will the police force be thinking about doing to try and not make this happen. gotta think like them. be on top of shit.
We have a lot of civil unrest because politicians have paid attention only to the rich and Republicans in particular have overstepped in their union busting, while Democrats have done little or nothing to seriously stand in the way of that. Even so, I find it hard to join in solidarity with any group when it starts putting itself above the laws of the land. Dangerous territory. How far does it go? Where does it stop? The destruction caused by anarchy usually outweighs any good it hoped to achieve. It usually results in a more violent land, as the protestors find they are NOT the 99%, but that many of the 99% who are not rich then start to become increasingly hostile. When it reaches the level of trying to shut down the entire coastline of a large nation, it will probably start to get violent. Many of the others in the 99% who are not rich will start to more aggressively oppose the Occupy Wall Street movement for stripping away their rights to get to their jobs, etc. If neither side, then, backs off, you wind up with civil war like we're seeing in other parts of the world.
I predicted in the following article that Occupy Wall Street would get stronger as a result of being evicted from the parks, but I hoped it would move in ways less destructive to civil society: http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-now-unoccupied-but-stronger/
Once a war gets started, there is usually no easy way of containing it by either side. One act of flagrant law-breaking on one side leads to others feeling they, too, have the right, then, to break the laws in opposing the side that first broke the laws. Onward it escalates. This is now dangerous stuff.
--Knave Dave
I have many coats to donate and can get some from friends. However, I don't have a job so a bit broke here. If someone will contact me and agree to pay for shipping, I can probably put together a dozen or so.
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Sure there are many people needed on the front line to protest these entities that are ripping America apart but there also has to be a group working in together to educate themselves on the processes of how laws were amended so these corrupted individuals were able to accomplish their goals.
These folks are using OWS. They received a court order to cease and disist due to their violent actions.
I think it is a mistake jumping on everyone's cause. Especially these folks. They are bad news...
http://tdn.com/mobile/article_8ff454ae-dfed-11e0-a5e7-001cc4c002e0.html
http://news.yahoo.com/longshoremen-storm-wash-state-port-damage-rr-144921214.html
Looking forward to participating and reporting on this. Saying this will "hurt small businesses" or "cause lost jobs" is missing the point, like saying the Montgomery bus boycott hurts bus drivers. The system is corrupt and exploitative, and this kind of direct action is the only message the controlling powers understand. It's just one day, but it's an important first step.
http://www.primitivetimes.com/2011/“losing-money”-doesnt-cut-it-anymore/
Shut it down! Solidarity from Canada! Hopefully my countrymen in Van city can get lots of people out there showing their support. Exercise our rights while we still have them. Best wishes with it, if i'm anywhere near a port at the time i'm there, may it go peacefully and well.
I think the tea party is a good idea. Lets make another powerful statement. We are now the tea, instead of throwing tea in the river lets take the greedy bank/companies, money makers out of commission. In other words they want unemployment to rise let give it to them. Lets all quit our jobs! What will the head do if the body refuses to support it. Lets in mass stop working for the corrupt companies and start a non profit of our own to support OCW. or take donations for those willing to quit their job in solidarity?
Look up Plato, Orwell, Alexander the Great. How can absolute power die out? When those who seek to obtain power and keep it, use the masses as the shield for there corruption. If you want to change the table of power look to yourself / your neighbor. If you as a person has ever looked the other way, then your apathy and blind obedience has fueled absolute power.....Those of you in this movement should be applauded! You have stood up for our human right of choice and chosen to stand against apathy and corruption. By standing for what is right you challenge MEN NOT GODs!!!! Men that are equal to us in mortality, imperfection, and all the frailties that we all face. Yet we are unequal to them in all things that are not intrinsic ( I.e. money, health care, education, housing, food, opportunity). We have stood by long enough (since babylon) allowing them to be supreme over us even though they are human too. Let all people govern themselves. No more,shall we be ruled by the families who have been in power since the beginning of time!!! WE SHALL BE FREE!!!!!
My family will lose this day of work because they are truck drivers. Please reconsider this action. The 1% will not feel a thing in response to this. The working people will have to suffer the consequences. This is only hurting the 99%!! Respect.
My comments get erased....? Is this a biased website? Are no other points of views being considered. Not all of us are in favor of this action!!! Please do not delete comments.
i hope you enjoy prolonging the economic down turn. and i hope that oakland survives when the companies decide to ship their products out of other ports and other countries.
As a concerned 99%er....I think this is a big mistake. Think of all the lay offs this can cause. We are shooting ourselves in the foot. This will only hurt the 99%ers not the 1%. They will cut jobs to continue the NECESSARY profits to keep the business afloat. Imports will be discouraged and will make it harder for us 99%ers to get goods that are not available....especially in winter months. Please think long and hard of the ramifications. 2wrongs don't make a right. There are hard working people's lives in the balance.
The beginning of the end of civilization. What are you going to do when society breaks down and having a gun is the difference between living and dying? Look at today's Dilbert: the 99% are really working for the 1%.
This is awesome!! Every day the movement grows stronger!! I hope the East Coast can do the same.
I think it is a mistake jumping on everyone's cause. Especially these folks. They are bad news...
http://tdn.com/mobile/article_8ff454ae-dfed-11e0-a5e7-001cc4c002e0.html
http://news.yahoo.com/longshoremen-storm-wash-state-port-damage-rr-144921214.html
I agree that is it only when the 1% (feel) the pains of loss that they will ever see a need to change... It is not the way mankind was born to be, this one for one and none for all approach that seems to have been generated by a small amount of super-rich families from Europe and here.
What they don't realize is that rioting in the streets has not been an American thing to do until the same conditions of (Dictator-Like) countries have come here to our home.
Without the Power-Players stepping down a bit, they (and) their families will probably have to start looking out their windows quite often in order to feel a sense of security due to their very own activities.
What kind of lifestyle is that to live in with millions of dollars in your very own banks?
I hope I am wrong but, I have been told the super-rich are not as safe as before...
Be Well All,
minister mitchell from occupyministries.com
The only thing between us and them are the cops and the military. Once the cops and military figure out that they are screwed too they will join the 99% and then there will be no barrier between us and the 1%. They know this is inevitable which is why they will start looking out their windows more.
A song for the banksters on Wall Street... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk
Here's what I don't get. I'm assuming that a certain percentage of these union members are also struggling to hold onto their homes.
So, if more focus is placed on home foreclosure defense, you still protect these union people, while also EXPANDING the movement to millions upon millions of others, most of whom are not in a union.
I can't join the protests now. I'll be able to join in the Spring and I'm hoping there will be mass protests across the country when the weather warms. No one gives up power, control and wealth easily.
Don't occupy the port! Stop the container-trucks coming and going! Occupy the truck-access roads to the port!
Occupy India!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/12/05/wiping-out-millions-of-jobs-is-the-whole-darn-point/?partner=yahootix
I support most of what OWS is doing. I am not sure of how to approach this idea, though. On one hand, I don't believe it is in the best interest to shut down the ports at the expense of union workers. On the other hand, it may be not that bad of an idea if these workers can't really strike for anything better. Yet, such a movement can have an impact. I still have to ask, though, is the US ready for an action like this? Will it allow more people to join us in our efforts? I would more overwhelmingly support the idea if the workers at the ports were actually fighting for better conditions and were shacked down in some way or another by the establishment. I don't know if that is the case or not at this time, but I tend to believe that we could gain better results if we took to areas where workers are actively calling for major changes. I don't know, though. A port shutdown seems like a very potent force, something that can really interfere with business as usual. I know that's what we are all fighting for in the first place, but I also tend to believe that this move can have negative repercussions if it backfires.
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As suggested in Forbes today, Alcoholics Anonymous may be the very best model on which #OWS should aim to design itself. The greatest test would be that of the ego for #OWS, as to remain leaderless demands as much from within the group as from the individual. I am uncertain the occupiers are desperate enough for such single minded purpose. http://littlebiggy.org/4660547
Unions are corrupt thug driven machines. this is your bed you have made and it is full of bugs. Sleep well.
We should declare independence from the US if they can't respect our beliefs. If they can't respect the 99%'s needs, we won't respect the current government. Let's work on a new constitution!!! OCCUPY MOVEMENT FTW!!!
we could vote out the federal government and replace it by law, with something better, but first we need ON PAPER something better. Working on a new constitution and a new bill of rights would be a very good start.
not disagreeing, but how about we start by reminding everyone what the bill of rights are...and celebrating the 220th anniversary of their signing on December 15th.
given that they are worded in a vernacular not commonly used in our time, maybe we could work on writing them in a way that more people would understand...
having OWS celebrate it would be a very good move with positive publicity good idea pass it forward to a GA..... YES UPDATE them so we could easily understand them and they are fair for everyone but those that hoard money
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Oh I see...The thought is to make companies a lot of money. And if you're super successful, maybe you can get the price of goods to go up too! Then you'll know it's working! LOL!
and if you considered every "worker" to be a "slave" to the banks that hold our national debt. What the "MASTER" would hate the most is a slave revolt where the masters were dragged thru the street like in the French Revolution and be-headed in the public square. Why do we allow ourselves to be enslaved by debt? too many commercials on TV telling you to keep up with the Jones? by borrowing today and paying tomorrow? open your minds and THINK
This is the... too many-ieth time... you have called me a slave.
At what point did working for what I wish to acquire constitute slavery?
And let me enlighten you, "debt" is not a perquisite for being an American. I was 36 years old before I accumulated any debt. No credit cards, no car loans, no mortgage. I decided, at 36, that I was ready and responsible enough to risk taking on debt.
The "instant gratification" mentality of this country is part of the problem.
The bigger part is our government is bought and paid for.
But protesting the purchasers is not going to remedy this problem. The only control we have, the only voice we have, is through our elected officials. Until we demand policy reform, transparency and accountability from those who are supposed to represent us... until we get our best interests back in on Capital Hill... we can never expect to see real change occur.
It is up to the policy makers to put a stop to Wall Street's corruption. What they're doing today is legal. This is the root of the problem.
I am not a slave. I took calculated risks and made educated mature decisions. My bank does not "own" me and I am not paying any more (less upkeep, but that is to be expected) than I would as a renter as a homeowner. And I did all this with realistic expectations, a sound budget and, believe it or not, a single income.
slave or not, we all work and pay our tax, the tax is the slave part. They don't take it all they just take a % so that way you will work harder, thinking you are free. But the US has been bankrupt since 1933 when the Federal Reserve took over and now owns all of the gold in Fort Knok and all of our national parks and all of our natural resources and all lands owned by the government, all to cover our debts. They control the money flow and profit wickedly by manipulating markets with insider trading.
But without tax where do all the public services your are so accustomed to come from, exactly?
Taxes are a part of life. This should not change... what should is the fact that those with the most have been exempt from paying their fair share.
the problem is when they print more money from thin air then loan said money they get rich like thief's, interest on thin air? the system is broke. Never accept a dollar again, take goods that have value.
How to remigrate from NY to Europe and Africa when you close the water front?
Gene Sharp lists emigration as a non-violent means of civil disobedience.
Can't wait to see you will have huge support!
The Peasant here from Firedoglake. Today's song is dedicated to Occupy K-Street from the Dissenter himself! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-zK1S5Dws
Pass it on to them please.
just wondering but has anyone thought about all the small businesses, manufacturers and farmer who will also be effect by this shutdown
the 1% may not be happy about losing money but they can afford to take the hit, can a small struggling business afford to?
You need to ask yourself or perhaps someone else, why those you are sympathizing with are in such a precarious position they can be so easily hurt.
sounds like a threat
You think asking a question is threatening? There is certainly the risk you might discover something. But you'll survive...probably. In any case, this economy supposedly celebrates risk takers.
the lottery is popular these days
"small business" is an excuse made up by the 1%.
They ae not going to be hurt by us. They have been hurt again and again by thieving banksters.
No, they may not be hurt by you but you can bet that the banksters will spend their money to make it look like the movement is hurting small business. Look at what Bloomberg said about the occupiers in NY. He said exactly that and the sad thing was that he had actually convince some people he was right. This is dangerous stuff. I think the 1% are trying to start a civil war.
That is why we have to make it clear that our anger is focused on the banksters. We have no fight with small business, and they have our support actually. As for civil war, that is what we want to avoid. War does result from peoples' anger. We need to solve this in a controlled fashion, and we are doing just that. We want the banksters jailed, and the small businesses to do well.
The 1% isn't going to be hurt by this either..... I wish people would not act as if this 24 hour strike is going to make a major impact on the large corporations because it isn't.
But what it will do is be the means to draw attention to the message of OWS. Which is far more valuable than causing the 1% a moment of inconvenience.
Absolutely. The message is getting through for sure. In Edinburgh, we now have a big tented area in the city centre.The guys giving away badges with donations coming in to raise a bit of "survival money". We have now a "people's cafe" which is more comfortable - a planning centre, but the front line is still in the tents. We are getting stronger and stronger here. The snow is here also.
it is a demonstration of power
Right now the only power OWS has is in it's numbers..... and while that will certainly bring attention to the issue it isn't going to make a difference to the corporations. And without a sustained protest (more than a one day thing) all this will be to them is an annoyance.
We have no power unless we actually do something that either forces change or gets DC to make laws that will stop the corruption.
Occupy Congress has been my message from the begining. Head to the source...The Capitol steps!!
For some reason OWS seems to think that Wall St is in control of Congress so therefore it is useless to protest DC. I don't understand that logic, if Congress is corrupt shouldn't that be exposed? Wouldn't that change the way Congress does things?
I can only hope that OWS will at some point see that..... Wall St isn't going to stop what they are doing, they don't have to.
OWS is in the right place.. Wall st. But they must now advance to Congress. There are plenty of crooked congress people,dems and repugs alike that are doing inside trading with Wall street. A matter a fact the majority of them ARE Wall Street. We The People must rid ourselves of the cancers that sit in the seat of government.These politicians are bought,paid and run Wall street,while they squeeze the middle-class penniless. Once they are removed,the government can come to order.
Well, don't look for OWS to take up that gauntlet anytime soon. After speaking to many who are deeply committed to this movement they are adamant that since Congress is controlled by Wall St that it is Wall St they will focus on. But it's odd that very little has been done in that sector of the movement as OWS seems to be very preoccupied (pardon the pun) with staging "events" such as the one they did this weekend "Occupy Broadway" a 24 hour performance thing.
There are or were (don't know if they are still there) 3 protesters on a hunger strike because Trinity Church will not let them occupy land that the church owns....
There are tons of things like this... if you go to the NYC General Assembly website you'll see the enormous amount of Working Groups all clamouring for some kind of justice or another.... it has gotten so far from the dock that the ship has long ago sailed.
If they don't focus on DC this movement will just be another sideshow on the nightly news.
The Tea Party is focused on D.C. Their concern is to occupy as many seats in Congress and other levels of government as possible. They now have some influence at least within the Republican Party. It will be interesting to see what comes of it but the record is not good. Since Nixon was President there have been waves of outsiders elected to Congress and the Presidency. The US electorate has for something like 4 decades generally elected outsiders who were going to reform Washington. All have been co-opted and incorporated. The Tea Party's way is really the well worn way which probably suits conservatives and certainly what remains of the middle class. OWS is attempting a new way. So there is a real competition. OWS is attempting to mobilize the real power of every democracy: the people. The Tea Party's aim is bums on seats in institutions that have always represented the monied interests.
Just as with our current President, I believe the "Tea Party" sent these people to Congress hoping for some good and reasonable change... we didn't get that from any of them. While I am sure there are hardliners that are happy with them I will wage the majority of TP people are just as frustrated and disgusted as we are.
But that really isn't the issue. What is at least to many of the "middle class" and the TP people that perhaps would join OWS is that there seems to be an absolute refusal to work within the system to make those changes, most people cannot see how OWS intends to bring there goals and visions to fruition without doing that. Maybe you can shed some light on how that is going to be done.
The real political problem is or at least should be, this: to choose an end that will demand the best of you. What is the most anyone can be by electing another representative? Probably middle class. What is the most anyone can be by changing the system? Probably humanity. Middle class at present seems enough for you. I think it is not enough for anyone. Instead of being stuck with political institutions designed by late 18th century male WASPs be more like as they once were: revolutionary.
What is your definition of a "revolutionary"? And what will that revolutionary do to make the reform needed and what kind of "government" does that revolutionary envision?
Revolutionary is to change everything all at once for the better. The demand is: Humanity Now!. Humanity is where you realize our radical equality and that all our differences are cosmetic and becoming more so and that making history is where we (human beings) are at our best. The revolutionary sheds their superstitions and fears and complicity with the existing regime by working towards the comprehension of the truth of every matter and its political consciousness. Revolutions don't just happen they take a vast solidarity to become possible.
The story of the West is the story of revolutions. Each significant revolution has brought about more equality, justice, freedom and wealth. The story of the West is also the story of every existing regime attempting to entrench itself and stall its coming use by date. (It was not that long ago that some post-modern intellectuals had the front to claim history was over: this was when capitalism was almost as natural as breathing and just before it started to stink) . Note, these past few sentences are a simple prelude to addressing what I read as your latent fears that revolution is a chaotic out-of-control threat to peace and security etc, etc, (well, property rights at least).
It is working towards revolution that you realize you are enough and making history is the authentication of democracy, equality, wealth and the necessity of freedom.
There are three basic biases to a successful revolution in the West. It must be more democratic, the economy the comes after it must be more productive, and there must be more liberty.
By way of illustration lets take the first US revolution. The founding fathers did not invent Equality, Fraternity and Liberty: these ideas were in the air in Europe for hundreds of years. They did not invent capitalism: England was the first center of capitalism. They did not invent parliaments: these already had a long presence. And they did not invent slavery. What they did do was choose Humanity Now and it was both necessity and aspiration. They had to decide they were enough and become adequate to building humanity as their solidarity otherwise they would never have been able to win. They were after all fighting their parent. Their Humanity Now was real and they did make things more democratic, equal and freer. It came to be expressed in those flowery phrases of documents like the Declaration of Independence and the form of government. Being revolutionary they were in a position to make it up as they went along but most of it was already there. All they had to do was live it and make it real. Our truth is they did not go far enough.
It is the struggle that makes you adequate. The next revolution will not rest at the late 18th century. The founding fathers aspiration for Humanity Now was stuck at idealism: the flowery phrases alongside slave holdings; equality, fraternity and liberty as legal nicety. Not much has changed since except the legal nicety is now more a case of: as long as you can pay. Capitalism is flowery words amidst the most refined oppression.
What is revolutionary is: MORE democracy; MORE equality; MORE freedom.
If you are interested you need to do two things: read Marx to find out how capitalism really works(and as an added bonus the truth of every matter). And read Sartre to find out how a human being works: freedom is absolute.
You read wrong as I have no " latent fears". I asked 3 simple questions. I am curious as to what other people support OWS view revolution within those 3 questions.
I wasn't looking for a history lesson or a lesson in the philosophy of Marx, just answers from someone in OWS...... As usual the questions were not answered.
That's right. Wall St right now is having loads of fun playing in their 708 trillion dollar credit default swap market in Europe as they continue on their rape and pillage adventure through Europe bringing down sovereign governments and forcing outrageous austerity measures everywhere.
Agreed. I've been saying this for so long on this site that it's gotten to the point that I don't say much of anything at all anymore.
I don't see the mentality shifting within the actions of this movement.
But what I do see is more people like you posting on this page. Its reassuring that there is still hope... perhaps we can occupy OWS?
I think OWS has some great ideas and I will support them... but I am really wanting to see some real effort going to focusing on DC..... I believe they could be very effective...
Gentle persuasion.... perhaps that will work with other of the OWS that don't seem to see things that many of the 99% see... don't give up.
OWS doesn't even have that high of numbers when you compare it to the entirety of the "99 percent." In addition, the general support for this movement is on a steady decline. OWS had its chance, but people have become too irritated and/or frustrated to support it.
forget "ows"...do WE have a chance?
They still have time to turn that around.... IF they will look beyond their "encampments"
if WE look...if we look beyond seeing it as "them"
I have supported NYC OWS with money donations, at least in the beginning.... I won't now because they seem to be too scattered and spend the money on things that I don't think will help advance the movement... I have taken donations of water, warm clothing etc... to my local OWS... and I continue to do that.... I simply don't want to see anyone freezing to death for any cause.
So I don't totally see them as "them"... However, until I see some cohesion in their message and some real work at changing things I don't think I can wholeheartedly support the movement as I once did...
Yes, they need to drop their idealistic stances and get down to the nitty gritty of reality.
WE need to get down to the nitty gritty of reality...
we can't afford to not take action.
and small business can? wondering again but who gave ows the right to make that decision?
they took the right and will represent all of us 99% (even those of us who are opposed to this action) because obviously we don't know what's best for us.
sounds just like the government to me
Explain exactly how "small business"--a favorite mythical catchphrase of the far right--will be hurt by this 24-hour strike?
It's all psychological warfare, for both sides.
Explain how the 1% will be hurt by this 24-hour strike?
Through a loss in profit.
no pain, no gain. in the long run, everyone will be better off. this is a display of our strength in numbers, and our ability to resist. i won't lie down, against my will, with my tail between my legs with the rest of the flock, and I don't want anyone to think that i/we will.
OWS never proclaimed any right to make decisions for the 99%, hence their status as leaderless movement.
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So they should do nothing?
The 1% wins when OWS does nothing.
Go home, watch TV. Stay obedient. Good boy.
No. We should go to Washington.
The "1%" is going to win no matter how many small business you hurt by shutting down the ports in random 1 day strikes.
They are going to continue to win as long as it is still legal for them to operate their businesses as usual.
You want victory? Demand policy reform. Make it so what they have done is clearly illegal.
There is a march on the Capitol today, and there are a lot of people working on getting the NGA planned for next July: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
occupy a job fair
There are legal ways to shut down any business or organization that you want till they do what you want them to do. In fact that is the ONLY WAY to create a successful revolution in todays world of America. Read my web page at www.mybetteramericaplan.com and on my Current Events section are ideas on how we can legally shut down Wall Street, the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Congress and the Republican convention in Tampa this summer. To shut down a port is easy by legally jamming up the traffic that leads to the port. If trucks and workers can't get to the port then the port can't operate. Bringing down a business by legally limiting access is the best way to make the changes that we need. Doing sit-ins that don't stop businesses doing wrong doesn't accomplish much. But the most important thing of all is to get out of political power those that protect and assist those that abuse you. That is why it is very important that we ALL vote in the next election to get the Republicans out of political office. If the Republicans win the next election they will extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich, make abortions illegal forever, gut environmental laws and make our lives miserable in many other ways. We made a mistake in 2000 by not ALL of us supporting Gore and we ended up with Bush who CAUSED 9/11 to happen and a lot more. Let's not make that same mistake again!
I took a look at your page. A couple pointers:
Break up the text into more paragraphs, with more space between each paragraph.
will give you one blank line between each paragraph, or just use <p> tags and style them with the extra padding in your CSS file.
There is a lot to read, too much even! Break it up into multiple pages, with one central idea on each page. You might want to read all of what you posted and see if you can make your point in less space. Take out paragraphs that don't directly add to your argument and summarize with bullet points.
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The more you hurt the economy, the more you fools at the bottom of the barrel will hurt. You are being played by the union bosses.
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Bad move. More Polarizing action that will further erode general support for a movement that has so many useful things to say and accomplish.
Poland had GENERAL STRIKES that finally caused their "MASTERS" to give up trying to control them.
They did indeed. Allowed the country to move from the grip of communism to be sure. They wanted to become democratic and capitalist instead of communist and socialist. Three cheers to them. Not sure what the juxtaposition is to the current OWS movement though.
We are not a country being controlled by a socialist superpower. We are in a bad recession. If OWS thinks this will gain them respect among the true 99% of people, they should think again.
“What better way to enslave a man then to give him a vote and tell
he is free".
we are in a country that is controlled by debt by a FOREIGN BANK who do you think the FEDERAL RESERVE is? a part of the federal government? did the name confuse you? its a FOREIGN BANK. Why does a foreign bank control this country? because the gov borrowed boatloads of cash from it, that way. We need to stop our government from borrowing one more penny. That would need a constitution change, but hey we got to do what is needed for survival of this once great country.
The Federal Reserve should be our 1st target when we go to protest Washington (not Wall Street). This bank should be government own and democratically run, first of all. Get this into the hands of the people and see how quickly things shape up.
but they already own us, we have been bankrupt to them since 1933 but do some spend some quality time in front of the Fed if you can. You know they are not connected to the fed gov.
I do know that. You would know that too if you read all my words.
we need goods backed money a barber would write on a note worth 1 haircut within 2 weeks, then use it for trade, that is a goods backed currency and it could not be horded
And what happens to those who have no means to supply a good for barter and trade? Or those who are incapable of providing services? Or when Joe Barber offers me 1 hair cut, but John Barber pipes up with 2 then Frank with 3...
Greed will always exist, this is why there has been no successful form of government for the long term. The Romans were close... and their system was much akin to our ideal capitalistic notions... but even they fell eventually. Because there is no way to stamp out human greed. The best we can hope for is representation of the best of us calling the shots.
there are some good alternate currency systems out there I googled and found some very interesting alternatives, try it
I disagree. Greed is no more natural in humans than violence. The only ones that are truly greedy are the people in control. They want you to think greed is natural in order to accept their system, which rewards greed over virtue and allows them, the truly greedy, free reign. Most people are decent and understand the ramifications of greed, and now, finally, I think people are starting to realize it collectively to the point where we can actually build a society that isn't based on greed. Google worker co-ops. It's completely realistic to run a business without a CEO hogging all the profits, where workers have an equal stake and make decisions collectively. That will be the model of the future.
History has disproven this theory over and over again. How many governments have already been set up as "Utopian" societies?
Perhaps it is only the powerful who corrupt these societies, I'd buy that... but these people will always exist and these people will always find a way to manipulate the system.
So you're saying because powerful people have always manipulated the system in the past, we're powerless to stop it and just have to accept it? Powerful people only become powerful because of an ignorant population. Hitler did what he did because the public wasn't able to see through his propaganda. But he was just one man. If people had been more aware, he would have been powerless.
Look, I recognize the value of being informed by history, but it's also important to not be held captive by it. Before civil rights, we had never not enslaved black people, but we didn't say "Oh, it's never happened, so we can't do it." We realized it was wrong, and did something about it. Why is it that so many people automatically think the only alternative to capitalism is communism? There was no such thing as capitalism, or communism, before we actually tried it. It's about progress and increasing awareness. We're at a different moment now than we've ever been. We're seeing more clearly now the failures of the system, and we have to try a new approach and new thinking to solve it, not limit ourselves to the failed experiments of the past.
No. What I'm saying is, history has proven that there will always be people who crave power. Who seek it at the expense of all others.
But what I'm not saying is, the form of government we have in place now is the problem. Nor am I saying we have to accept the situation this country is in at all. I'm just saying that there is no such thing as a "perfect" government, it will always corrupt eventually. What we need to do is arm ourselves with information and learn from history... and restore power to the masses not the few elite.
What's the alternative then? I've been asking this question over and over... the only response I generally get is socialism/communism. If you have something different to offer, I'd love to hear it. I'm not about stopping the movement or against change... I'm just not really looking for a socialist society. I do not thing owning a home is a "right". I do not think higher education is a "right". I do not tolerate those already abusing the welfare system... I'm not really looking to reward them for their lack of efforts.
You say “What we need to do is arm ourselves with information and learn from history... and restore power to the masses not the few elite.” Don’t you understand that that IS socialism? What do you think socialism is? First line from Wikipedia: “Socialism is an economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy; or a political philosophy advocating such a system.
What do you think power is, if it’s not greater control of the means of production and the economy? How else are we supposed to “restore power to the masses,” unless we spread more of the responsibility and benefits among the masses? Well, if we do that, that is socialism, and yes, I think that’s a good thing! I’m not afraid of that word, because I’m not deluded by the corporate media in this country, whose goal it is to make you think socialism is evil. Obviously, the corporate media are some of the prime perpetuators and benefactors of our capitalist system, so of course they want everyone to think socialism is evil! And most people are too busy playing the rat race game to have time to reflect deeply enough to see through this lie.
Guess what? We’re all socialists with our family and people we care about. So why is it that we all of a sudden are supposed to become these cutthroat competitors outside our homes? Is that just human nature? No, it’s not. Again, most of us are decent, and most of us would much prefer to cooperate rather than constantly fight against each other. But we’ve been conditioned by the 1%, who control the airwaves, to think socialism is evil, in order to maintain the capitalist system, which, big surprise, only truly benefits the 1%.
Guess who would benefit from socialism, which, again, is a system where the means of production/responsibility/power/benefits is spread out amongst everyone? You would. Of course, I’m assuming you’re a regular person who doesn’t make 10 million a year. So why in the world would you be against a system where you would benefit? You would make more from your job. You might be able to work less and spend more time with your family, because decisions would be made collectively, which means meaningless or irrelevant work could be eliminated, technological advancement would benefit people rather than cause job loss, etc. etc. You wouldn’t have to worry about health care or education costs, because again, decisions are being made collectively, with everyone being affected, and everyone recognizes the need for health care and education. You see? The idea of working together isn’t some hippie notion that results in laziness. Most people would be on board and thrive if they understood what it was about, because it would benefit EVERYONE, and unless you’re the 1%, everyone includes you.
Now, as far as alternatives, I know it’s not enough to just say “Ok, lets all be socialists,” and then everything magically starts working. You need a specific plan to implement, and there are plenty of them out there if you really are interested in learning. But in my opinion, the key objective should be LOCALIZATION. Every single thing that can be produced locally must be done so. There is no reason to import anything from another country if it can be made locally. This creates jobs, it ties people to the community, it increases accountability so the people responsible for decision making are also directly affected by those decisions, it more accurately pairs labor with demand, it ends exploitation, it’s good for the environment, and lots more. Socialism maybe isn’t practical to implement on a large scale, at least not yet, because that could potentially lead to power consolidation and corruption, which then would make it communism. But locally, it is realistic, because there is less room for corruption, and as more surrounding communities see the rising prosperity of these “socialist” cities and states, more would adopt it for themselves. Sure, there would still be isolated selfishness and you’d still have your Donald Trump types who would try and impose their will on everyone, but the difference is that now the society would be focused on the people and they would be conscious of the destructive effects of allowing that kind of selfishness to hold sway. The 1% types would be forced to conform to the majority, as opposed to now, where the majority conforms to the 1%.
There’s much more to say but I think that’s enough for now.
The very first song that is played in this video states that he is "sick of paying bills and sick of paying rent"...really?
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Really? Good Idea? What about the people that want to work and earn money so they can live unlike you guys who are against working. Seems a bit silly and pointless. Union workers are not going to side with you just because some of them marched with you. Think about it, Cops will be all over this.
Reading through these comments and the "honey spread" remarks, I can only question, AT WHAT POINT does action of this type become SELF WORSHIP with no real point other than self grandizment.