Forum Post: Screw all your demands.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 5, 2011, 7:28 a.m. EST by Julian
(57)
from St Lucia, QLD
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This is a movement without demands. All we do is expose the problems and then the solutions come as a matter of course. Think of a cancer tumor, it won't get removed if no one knows it's there. If you create demands without the majority having a very good understanding of the problems, then nothing good will come out of them.
Instead of arguing and listing demands, let's just argue and list the problems, that would be much more productive.
instead of demands, maybe a list of injustices or things wrong with the system, along with a vote of popularity( to gauge opinion) so then those can be presented as demands, which could then be worked on. Find the problems to create the solution.
Good idea Julian.
Also, exposing the problems are key. More importantly, finding out the root of the problem so you can have long lasting healing.
Agreed, although I'd disagree with the idea that "solutions come as a matter of course". People will need to work long, very hard and intensively together to find an acceptable new paradigm to create a society in which all people can participate on equal terms.
The ONLY demand we should be making is that the government be returned to the people, by eliminating corporate influence over government (congresspersons, the judiciary, the executive branch, and the regulatory agencies all of which the corporations currently own). Everything else being discussed are policy issues. Policy needs to be determined democratically, by the people and their just representatives. We won't have just representation until we get the corporations out of our government.
Notice where the word demand came from? The media. The reason for that is once they have it in their hands then they manipulate it. They can treat it like the final chapter in their book. Listing demands this soon in the game will certainly backfire.
Consider this-
We don't need demands at the moment. If we rush to act so the cameras capture us now, now, now then we pass up a major opportunity. There are more of us than just the brave people facing the coming winter. If we push for something now, the lever of democracy is weak. Gather steam around the country, become a presence they can't ignore, make them sweat in the offices of power wherever they may be and let's see what strength we can accumulate on that lever.
Demands make us weak, they are embryonic and unready. Too easy to dismiss by the powers that be, too soon for popular support, too conflicting to be coherent. Keep building, spread the word that this is the time, we have one chance to change the world. Come join regardless of age, sex, religion, political affiliation, etc. We don't just want you all, we need you.
Oh yes I like it very much. Let the powerful sit in their offices all over the country dripping with sweat and waiting in anticipation as to what will be the outcome.
MarkH...
"Find the problems to create the solution."
Beautifully said. Thank you!
Since Regan, the political agenda in America has been bound by the idea of small government and a Rand-ist self-service. Private philanthropy struggles to retain the ideological ground of social equity. Those who are “wealthy on our behalf” simply do not have the numbers any longer to mean anything other than a bare faced cynicism proffered as an argument for the retention of the status quo.
Wall Street is such a complicated mess right now that it's difficult to design up our own demands/solutions...but I do feel we agree that something's not working right.
As already written, this is the time to get the problems identified as clearly as possible, itemised as efficiently as possible and discussed by as many people as possible. Immediate answers won't be available until the problem itself has crystallised into something that can be worked with. Waffling on about abstractions is going to get nobody anywhere, the coming period will be mostly useful to get all the filth into the open and seen for what it is.
Thats The correct way to problem solving
Federal reserve, corporatism, economy not being in the hands of the people.
But.. BUT! If we don't have a list of demands, how will the mainstream media know which talking points to use against us!?
The most important issue at the moment is getting as much of the mess as possible out into the open, and getting the people who have been effected most behind the movement for change. There should be room for discussion but it should also be all-inclusive and open for many points of view, i.e. non-partisan amongst other things. The issues raised can be reported via the media, as long as solutions and results aren't (and can't) be promised immediately. If anything the quickest and seemingly easiest solutions are usually the worst in the long run.
How about we work on fixing the problems? Be proactive and be positive.
demands are different from solutions. without demands, they don't know which solutions to pursue that would make the protest go away. An endless list of problems will get nowhere.
You need demands, you demand the problems are fixed, then you demand they listen to your solutions on how it should be done, highlighting problems and doing nothing more will get you no where.
Allowing them to 'fix' the problems in their own way will not fix anything, if they wanted to fix the problems they would have done so.
This has had less than a month to organize. Making demands at this point has the chance to alienate the incoming, look childish when there's 20 sets of often conflicting statements, and easily pushed to the side because of lack of popular support. Right now is the time to get people out, get people moving and talking and involved. Read the declaration of Independence. There are no demands there, just a set of grievances.