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Forum Post: School conversations and concerns

Posted 11 years ago on Nov. 15, 2011, 3:23 p.m. EST by InsanityVyce (14)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

We were talking about Occupy Wall Street today in Honors World History. The majority of us agreed that what OWS stands for is right. I personally believe that our economy and politics in America need change. I do not mean to say that we need to get rid of Democracy. Far from it. I believe that we need to become more Democratic, rather than having both our politics and economy run by such a small percent.

My only concern (also brought from class, although it was my English class of last year) is that there have been many cases where the lower class have rebelled and tried to fix things, and someone ends up taking advantage of the movement and gains all of the power. I wonder if people will be willing to stand up against that, if and when it comes time for it.

I apologize if my wording and explanation isn't the greatest.



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[-] 2 points by Dutchess (499) 11 years ago

No, there are no safe guards other than the knowledge of history, propaganda, infiltration, divide and conquer techniques etc....

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 11 years ago

I realize that keeping up with the OWS 'events' is difficult and that much of what we read is individual opinions, which is pretty much what my reply is going to be.

OWS doesn't want to change our system, it wants to see it become what it once was, what it could be again.

The biggest requests are for a more direct democracy, reasonable restrictions on unbridled capitalism (reinstatement of Glass/Steagall), tax relief for the middle class (which is rapidly loosing that status), relief for students under crushing loans who's employment prospects are rather grim. And of course, campaign finance reform.

If you google OWS demands you should be able to find the actual list put forth by the General Assembly.

It appears OWS has been attempting to prepare for an eventual time to enter into a negotiation, or at least have goals to put before the public. I know there are many who claim there is no goal, but there certainly is, several of them in fact.

Like any list, there are items on it that are 'over the top', but one must consider the list was put together by direct democracy among those who were in attendance at the time. I have no doubt the list will adjust as OWS continues to grow.

Here are some links your class and you might like to discuss.




[-] 1 points by InsanityVyce (14) 11 years ago

Thank you so much!

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 11 years ago

You are very welcome.

[-] 1 points by ronjj (-241) 11 years ago

Thank you for your post and your honesty. As an older American, I would ask you this question:

  1. When did working "our tails off" become such a bad thing" You work your tails off to get good grades in school. You work your tails off to win a ball game,. You work your tails off to make a class float for homecoming parade, you work your tails off to win that game on your tech device.

Then all of a sudden, working your tails off to succeed in real life becomes such a burden and so repulsive. I don't look up to the rich as my role model. My role model always will be the person who is willing to work their tail off to succeed in whatever they are doing.

Your post seems to me, to be more of a, "I give up" attitude saying that if someone (corporation, whatever) does not "hand me the power" that I am therefore powerless and must resort to working my tail off to succeed. This may, in effect, be true for some in America, and not just those who you identify as rich. A successful parent in any "class" as you describe, can pass their wealth and power on to their children if they have worked their tails off to get it.

If you are, on the other hand, saying that you are jealous of those who have that wealth and power handed to them, regardless of what "class" you consider them to be in - that is a different problem.

America is a vast country and a very fluid country so far as our "class system" is concerned. I fully believe when we start to divide our citizenry into classes, we simply do what is evident in India and we also pass on the assumption that an individual cannot move from one class to another, whether they work their tails off or not.

I would simply encourage you, as an individual, to determine what your own purpose is in life and work to meet and bring about that purpose. Simply giving control of that most valuable of rights to the society is a very self defeating action. Don't become a victim of any system, class, financial standing or other thing that would keep you down. AND, whatever you do, do not tear down any law abiding, honest, person in your effort to bring yourself up. It is always very self defeating. Fight evil where evil is. Just be sure that the people you join with are not, in effect, the evil ones that you would fight againt

[-] 1 points by InsanityVyce (14) 11 years ago

I was not saying that I give up, nor that I am jealous. I was simply stating a point that was made to me a very long time ago, although I believe my wording was a bit off. I meant simply to say "yes, things are messed up, and yes, we do need a change, but what happens if something goes wrong when we try to make a change? How will we fix it?". And I was not saying that working hard was a bad thing. I was merely stating that it was a bit unfair in my opinion. I know that I do not have all of the answers, nor do I understand everything about America and our economy. But I thank you for being polite in your comment, and I will change my post since it came across incorrectly.

[-] 1 points by ronjj (-241) 11 years ago

Hey thanks and good to hear from you. I do not believe that anyone can accurately determine fair-unfair when it comes to some things in our society. The big issues - no question. Segregation was wrong but it was not abolished by someone yelling RIGHTS it was only dealt with when the majority of Americans accepted a stand on RIGHTS and RESPONSIBILITES which was a balanced approach to the inequities of society lead by men-women who gained the respect and evidenced the wisdom that brought about that change. Yelling and killing went on for years - success was gained only when reason prevaled.

Now to your point of "it was a bit unfair in my opinion". This is all relative to the type of work you are talking about. I have a small business and the staff that "cleans and prepares units for rental" is paid more per hour than anyone in management - is that fair. I do not equate fairness with work. If someone determines that a person digging a pipe line should be paid more than me as a small business owner - so be it - I simply choose not to dig ditches. If a CEO is paid more than me, so be it - I wouldn't trade positions under any conditions. I would not accept their headaches, responsibility for decisions made ,etc for any amount of money. It is my choice.

I fully believe that some CEO's are way overpaid. I have the same qualifications as some of them - you I would not want their job. If, I did want their job and got that job, I would be expected to be paid, for the job I was doing by the people that hired me. If I happen to think that YOU are overpaid in your job - that is my right - but it is not my responsibility to protest at great length to get your salary reduced unless I have a vested interest in your job.

[-] 1 points by InsanityVyce (14) 11 years ago

I understand where you are coming from, and I do agree with many of your points. I guess this whole Occupy thing is just a little confusing to me. There are so many aspects to it, and I hear a different opinion and approach from each person I hear about it from...