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Forum Post: sandy hook

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 16, 2013, 2:05 p.m. EST by JOELEWHITE1 (14)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

There are two schools of thought. (A) Do anything you can to supress the use of firearms in this country. (B) Do anything you can to supress another "Sandy Hook" incident. To prevent another Sandy Hook from occuring,we need to understand that feel good legislation really has no bearing on the murder of twenty kindergarteners. The Sandy Hook abomination was permitted to occur because we, as a nation, lack the will to do what is mandatory to preventing this type of crime. NRA has suggested the real solution: Arm the teachers.When the perp broke into the school, he simply broke a window to gain access past a locked door. Assuming he was noticed, who was prepared to present armed resistance?An armed lunatic intent on killing can only be stopped by an armed representative of society who is trained in the use of firearms, and willing to to risk his or her life in defense of unarmed people at large. Our federal government knows perfectly well that this discussion should be called deviant control, not gun control. Legislation passed to mollify the masses is not a solution. Several states Governors understand the need for armed protectors in schools.Those of you who refuse to acknowledge the need to protect our children can accept responsibility for the next massacre. God forbid.

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20 Comments


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[-] 4 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago
[+] -4 points by JOELEWHITE1 (14) 1 year ago

Totally lacking in a viable line of reasoning, you attack me?

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

"Arm the teachers"???

JW, you call that a "viable line of reasoning"???

Should they carry on the hip or shoulder?

Should they have rubber bullets or armor-piercing?

[-] 2 points by Buttercup (1067) 1 year ago

Yeah you're insane. Arm teachers. wtf. Where does that totally fucked up ridiculous idea end? Armed guards in theaters? Parking lots? A full out militarized police state. Great fucking idea. Really brilliant.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022063275

Mass murders are enabled by military weapons and military ammunitions. Banning these things is more than 'feel good legislation'. There were a dozen mass murders in Australia in the decade before their assault weapons ban. There have been none in the 15 years since the ban. N. O. N. E. None.

Along with seriously thorough background checks, registration and licensing for all guns.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101791616#post1

Hinckley was hit in the head and wrestled to the ground. You know why? Because trained professionals do not have the 'luxury' of shooting indescriminately. There were armed guards at Virginia Tech. There were armed guards at Columbine. They were overwhelmed by assault weapons. There were reports of people in the crowd that were carrying concealed weapons in the Gabby Giffords shooting. Those guns were never used. Because, number one, they weren't trained professionals and two, even trained professionals do not have the 'luxury' of firing indescriminately into a crowd of people. Let alone the thought of random people firing indescriminately in a crowded parking lot or a dark and crowded theater. Holy hell you're out of your mind.

We cannot stop or cure all crazy people. But we can damn well stop them from getting guns.

You're seriously screwed up in the head. Get help.

[-] 1 points by JOELEWHITE1 (14) 1 year ago

There were no armed guards at tech. Gun free zone- remember? I can't speak for Arizona, but Va. has a statute on the books which permits any one to shoot an armed perp who is arbtrarily murdering people.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

The choices are not A or B, as you suggest, and of course you know that. And of course mass murders aren't the problem. Gun violence is the problem. Suicides, people wounded by guns and the deaths every day, is the problem. And your solution for that problem is to arm teachers? 900 gun deaths since Sandy Hook? How much are you addicted to your toys?

What if, by accident, one of these feel good measures actually reduces the frequency of mass murders, or gun accidents, or suicides? We put locks on doors without proof of how much theft, how many burglaries, how many home invasions, how many murders they prevent. Bars on windows prevent or slow down invasions that you mention. Windows of a size that adults can't climb through address it as well. An armed lunatic, as you call them, may be scaled down, slowed down or stopped in a whole variety of ways. Common sense suggests that if the probable benefit exceeds the risk of harm, give it a try and determine as quickly as you can as accurately as you can if the net results are positive.

A teacher just talked one down a week ago. Didn't have to be mandated. Nor did she have to shoot the student. Students turned in a hit list. Cops investigated and an arrest has been made. Family or friends can report behaviors, statements or other clues. Purchases of weapons, ammunition, explosives, armor etc. that are inappropriate or not consistent with their life style etc. can prevent some of these.

The NRA has prevented the collection of information that could have identified something that would have worked. Is that being responsible?

Would we have tolerated 40% of the air travelers being able to bypass screening? Why would you want people who can't pass a background check to get AR-15's with 100 round magazine, and kits to enable 900 round per minute rates of fire? Responsible? I don't think so. The masses in a democracy (310 million of them) that you disparage are more responsible than the minority that you praise that has about 3 million members, a majority of whom support many of the measures you also disparage. We are talking about a million that some would say are extremists who probably couldn't pass a mental health screening. You would put them in charge?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34861) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The ILL's Of Society ( some of them anyway ) in case you were interested:

DOWN WITH THE DRONE WARS = "If there's even one life that can be saved, then we've got an obligation to try,"

DOWN WITH FOSSIL FUEL EXTRACTION AND USE = "If there's even one life that can be saved, then we've got an obligation to try,"

DOWN WITH CORPORAT PERSONHOOD = If there's even one life that can be saved, then we've got an obligation to try,"

EXPORT GREEN TECHNOLOGY AID - NOT MONEY TO BE MISUSED = "If there's even one life that can be saved, then we've got an obligation to try,"

ETC

[-] 1 points by JOELEWHITE1 (14) 1 year ago

Lets focus on protecting children from armed perps; your suggestions are valid but irrelevant---

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34861) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Gun regulation will not protect the children - healing the ills of society that breed violence will.

[-] -1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

"Sandy Hook: more television brainwashing using guests as fodder" http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2012/12/29/sandy-hook-how-television-takes-your-guns/ :

"Somebody has to write about these things. Since I’ve worked as a reporter for 30 years, I know enough about how the game is rigged.

I’m talking about the big mass tragedies. Sandy Hook, the Aurora theater, Hurricane Sandy, Katrina.

Many of the interviews with survivors are done on the spot, with no prep. But the biggest interviews are done in a television studio or a home, by a recognized anchor. The setting is arranged beforehand and lit well. A mood and a framework are established.

The guests are prepped by one of the producers before they go on-air. This is where the brainwashing occurs. A potential conflict needs to be resolved. The network has its agenda and the guest has his. . . ."

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

just compare US & Australia & England gun statistics
They all have violent videos + movies + crazies
Only America has too many guns and no recent crack down on guns
THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE


demand a plan:

http://www.youtube.com/user/maigcoalition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za8SOVuGHs&list=UUu4Q7iE0z1Jw7yUjs56dvXA&index=1

alex jones – without his straight jacket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg&feature=endscreen&NR=1

WRITE CONGRESS:

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm
VP Joe Biden, Gun Panel, 1600 Pennsylvania Av, Washington DC 20006


Dear ............................:

[ _ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E_ ]

While some people may want to confiscate guns, here is a much more feasable approach. It will not solve all gun problems, but it will reduce the number of guns and will reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns - and isn't THAT our real goal?

Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our gun disasters:

My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.

1
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.

if you own a motor cycle, a dump truck, and a car - you are tested in each
a written gun test - to guarantee the owner's understanding of gun laws
being forced to know the law - via the test - means the police know who you are -
and you may be less likely to commit a crime

2
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.

insurance should be at least as high as car insurance [ I would like at least $1,000,000 ]
you must prove your car insurance
annual back ground check to verify your suitability to own guns
every gun must be locked in a gun case or have a trigger lock

3
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.

you are required to report if your gun is missing within 48 hours
the owner will be much less likely to leave a gun accessible to a family member or thief

4
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police

knowing that your gun & its bullets are so easily traced will make you think before using it

peripherally-

Gun fees should be high enough to create a very substantial gun buy-back program

Penalties must be very high in money & jail time - especially after the first offense

No citizens ( except dealers & real collectors ) need more than a small number of guns

Gun fees should be higher for more guns.

The nra fighting against this - will be balanced by the insurance companies fighting for it

But the nra may be in favor of this when the gun companies understand that a gun owner
can get paid to turn in their old gun and will be able to buy a new gun -
with an INTEGRATED lock .

If we legalize drugs, we will clear out jail cells to fill with gun law breakers and
free up police "time" for real crime investigation

I am fundamentally NOT opposed to confiscation, but we WILL get higher compliance
and lower opposition if we use high fees & buyback. Take a position of reducing guns,
like assault weapons such as semi-automatic rifles -
rather than punishing a gun nut who spent $10,000 on an armory.



Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:

Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides


Clearly the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.

More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.

When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.

For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1

For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9

In 2011, there were 11,000+ gun homicides in America
In 2011, there were 39 gun deaths in England

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/rft-annual-trend-and-demographic-tables-2011-12.xls
gun death data directly from the British government go to table D19 to see total gun deaths in Great Britain = 39

▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼
The USA 1994 gun "ban" did not ban assault weapons.
It banned the MANUFACTURE of assault weapons.
That is why so many people are buying AR15s before "Obama bans guns"

Scalia - yes that Scalia has indicated the AR15s are NOT protected by Article2

I learned yesterday that LBJ proposed a gun plan similar to the above letter's plan

[-] 1 points by Clancy (42) 1 year ago

England only had 35 gun homocides yet it is Europes most violent country.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

The issue today is GUNS and what do do about them
"violence" is not the issue - NOW
what legislation would you advocate -
THAT COULD BE PASSED -
that would reduce American gun deaths?

[-] 0 points by Clancy (42) 1 year ago

Except that according to FBI crime statistics when you take guns out of legal hands in an area then crime goes up. Look at Chicago they have horrible crime rate and guns are not allowed in the city.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

They are allowed in the city. Christ on a crutch, dude. McDonalds v Chicago...........get some. http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2009/2009_08_1521

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

DC has strict gun bans but they flood in from Virginia and other confederate states Just look at the US-GB-AU comparison

[-] -1 points by JOELEWHITE1 (14) 1 year ago

Guns are like cars:without a bad driver at the wheel,no one dies. Guns and cars are inanimate objects; incapable of initiating lethal activity without some help from a flawed driver, or a homocidal maniac. Focus on the issue: An armed , mentally deficient perp, with murder on his mind, MUST be stopped on the spot, lest we suffer more unnecessary deaths. It takes an armed guard to stop him; legislation will not suffice.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

So you deny the fact that GB & AU saved many lives with s trict gun regulation?
Or do you not understand the numbers
Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:

Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

The issue is that we need to bring back the AWB, remedy the Tiahrt Amendments and close more than a few loopholes.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (34861) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

STINKLE

You want to protect children - FOR REAL???

Work on Healing the ILL's of society - there will be much less violence then and access to good health care for all.