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Forum Post: Same - Same? Not So Fast

Posted 5 months ago on April 1, 2014, 6:42 a.m. EST by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Nobody can look at these facts and claim both parties are the same -

New G.O.P. Bid to Limit Voting in Swing States

By STEVEN YACCINO and LIZETTE ALVAREZMARCH 29, 2014

CINCINNATI — Pivotal swing states under Republican control are embracing significant new electoral restrictions on registering and voting that go beyond the voter identification requirements that have caused fierce partisan brawls.

The bills, laws and administrative rules — some of them tried before — shake up fundamental components of state election systems, including the days and times polls are open and the locations where people vote.

Republicans in Ohio and Wisconsin this winter pushed through measures limiting the time polls are open, in particular cutting into weekend voting favored by low-income voters and blacks, who sometimes caravan from churches to polls on the Sunday before election.

More from the NYT

This is bullshit. If the fukers cannot win their argument on the basis of merit, then they will cheat like the low life scum they are.

This article makes it indisputable: In the repelican veiw, if you do not have wealth or own property, you just shouldn't vote.

I say

FUCK THESE REPELICAN SCUM

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fukers

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fukers

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Further evidence - thanks shooz.

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The Senate Intelligence Committee voted 11-3 along partisan lines in favor of declassifying a report it has produced regarding the CIA's Rendition, Detention and Interrogation program. The U.S.A. Today news report on this Senate Intelligence Committee vote demonstrates yet another clear instance of the ideological divide that exists between party:

Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C., a member of the panel, called the report "flawed and biased" but ultimately voted in favor of declassifying it.

"I had hoped that the authors of the report would ensure that the American public was provided facts, not fiction," Burr said. He added, "However, I voted today to declassify the report to give the American people the opportunity to make their own judgments."

Three Senate Republicans — James Risch of Idaho, Dan Coats of Indiana and Marco Rubio of Florida — voted against declassification. Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., voted present.

"Unfortunately, the study has pitted the Senate Intelligence Committee against the CIA and distracted us from focusing on the many threats facing our national security," Risch and Rubio said in a joint statement. "Unlike previous bipartisan reports to come out of the intelligence committee – including the recent study investigating the terrorists attacks in Benghazi, which received broad bipartisan support – this partisan effort deserves to be discredited."

From: Senate panel votes to declassify part of CIA report, USA Today

Any goddamned fool can claim it's not cold out - but that will not stop the shivering.

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Further evidence:

The House Energy and Commerce Committee Tuesday voted down an amendment that would have stated conclusively that climate change is occurring.

E&C Committee members voted 24-20 against the amendment, introduced by Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) to H.R. 3826, the Electricity Security and Affordability Act. That bill, if it makes it through Congress, would put an end to EPA regulations on emissions for new power plants until technologies like carbon capture and storage are commercially viable in at least six states for one year. It passed in Tuesday’s committee, but the amendment, which would have placed on the record that the committee accepts that climate change is happening and is caused by greenhouse gas pollution, did not.

Twenty-four E&C members — all Republicans — voted against the amendment. Among them was E&C Chair Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI), who has said before that he doesn’t think climate change is caused by human activity, and Joe Barton (R-TX), who also questions humans’ role in climate change. In total, the Republicans who voted to deny climate change have accepted about $9.3 million in career contributions from the oil, gas and coal industries, according to analysis by the CAP Action War Room.

This isn’t the first time House Republicans have rejected amendments stating the reality of climate change. In 2011, House Republicans voted down amendments that called on Congress to accept that climate change is real, man-made, and a human health threat.

24 House Republicans Just Voted To Deny The Reality Of Climate Change - by By Katie Valentine on January 28, 2014

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And yet another stunning example of intransigent repelican insistence on ignorance and partisan denial . . .

Climate change has become a partisan issue in the US, such that a majority of Democrats is worried about it but only 29% of independents and only 16% of Republicans! The youth are more concerned than their elders.

The American public is reacting to climate change as though it were a lifestyle or culture wars issue, such as gay marriage or marijuana legalization.

They don’t seem to realize that the laws of physics don’t respect party affiliation. If you put 32 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere every year, as human beings are currently doing by burning coal, oil and natural gas, then you will cause massive climate change.


UPDATE ~ April 30, 2014:

Senate REPELICANS block minimum wage hike to $10.10



Next: The False Equivalence Meme



136 Comments

136 Comments


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[-] 3 points by schmoot (65) from Kerrville, TX 5 months ago

"Nobody can look at these facts and claim both parties are the same"

Cons can look at anything and not see what they won't see, because it doesn't serve their agendae. They shouldn't be able to. But they can. Sadly

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[-] 0 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

first of all can you answer the question DOG BOY - did jfk bomb poor south Vietnamese peasants and how about telling us why that great liberal did that - the hero of the democratic party left! and please set yourself on fire rather than going on a killing spree. just one more enlighten statement from someone who puts zen in his name. now maybe you would like to enlighten us about the Buddhist priests who set themselves on fire - please - oh, one last thing - if you don't care - why all the flaming?

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[-] 0 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

you don't care? no answer - why can't you answer - simple question - come on tell us about jfk - the great liberal - come on boy - grow up be a MAN

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[-] 1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

no I am staying since you don't care one way or the other. - maybe I will go if you answer the question??

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow- witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made lear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." (Leo Tolstoy)

IF you think that hchc, flip, jrhirsch & gnomunny are the same dude then your are so full of shit as to be unable to discern shill from shinola or your own ass from your own elbow. Hurling more gob-shite insults at everyone to 'the left' of your own right-wing ass .. just does not cut it and has you down as an ''empty vessels make the most noise'' loud mouth bully boy !!! 'Cut own throat whilst shaving' huh ?!! Is that why you don't risk a razor yourself, lol ?!

You mention JFK here, which thus makes me ask - have you got the gonads to read these, I wonder ?

You may or may not have what it takes to engage with these articles but re. ''same same'' - wakeTF up & realise your silver tongued and far from unintelligent POTUS is a product of, apologist for and believer in - the One Corporate, Bankster, MIC Empire & Austerity Party, that runs the U$A. Stop wearing your ass as a hat, you fkn nicompoop & go get with the reality behind your B-S, Corporate, MSM headlines.

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] -1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

OK. I haven't formed any opinion on this yet. Give it to me in summary fashion, will you?

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Sorry dude, I can't spoon feed you your opinions and you gotta read and do the time if you want to understand the crimes ;-) The 2nd article by Jonathan Cook is probably the best primer and of course Seymour Hersh is the 'The Man' here although P.D. Scott's piece is more of an over-arching thesis but I won't hit you with another link as is my wont usually lol.

pax ...

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

Most interesting, the first one. I was thinking of a few of those similarities myself, sometime back. Now that's what I'd call scary stuff.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Scary indeed & re. the Seymour Hersh related pieces, I just can't recommend those two enough to you too !! Also fyi : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Xh5eN2fXY @ you with a strong recommendation !

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

I'll definitely read 'em. and book the link. thanks.

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

You are more than welcome & I'll also humbly and genuinely recommend to you the video herein :

2nd link was added later due to my forum-post (1st link) having been banned for reasons unknown.

3rd link was then added as it was the article I excerpted and abridged on my now lost forum-post !!

pax ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

You should take Renneye's good advice below and do some less 'Dog' and aspire to a li'l more 'Zen'. + :

I do ''care'' and could have given you such a long and passionate reply here but not sure you are worth it & I really don't need to fuel your Freudian fantasies about your beloved, 'can do no wrong', EmPOTUS !!!

pax ...

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[-] 3 points by Renneye (3835) 5 months ago

Gosh, am I ever glad to see you, Builder!

Life gets busy. I know that only too well, but I sure hope we see more of you again.

Oh...hey, the 'Moringa' supplements are working real nice!

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[-] 3 points by Renneye (3835) 5 months ago

Hahahah. Ya ya, I know...everyone's a kochsucker.

You really need a break. Go chop some wood or something. Get your mind right.

Try painting. That's what I'm doing right now. Kitchen cabinets. They look great!

You should get some quality supplements yourself. Especially a good B-Complex supplement. Keeps things calm, and keeps the 'creepies' away..if ya know what I mean? It separates the paranoia between the 'real', and the 'imagined'.

Also, take an extra quality vitamin B-12 (sublingual). Make sure it's 'Methylcobalamin', not Cyanocobalamin.

In fact, get your B-12 level checked by your doctor. Your 'intrinsic factor' may be gone and your body can't accept B-12 through the stomach. You may need monthly B-12 shots. Intrinsic Factor starts to diminish after the age of 50. It's very common. It might be a pain in the ass to get your levels checked, though. Doctors don't like to check it if there isn't an overt and very obvious problem, but by the time there's an outright problem, it's too late. It's like pulling teeth, I tell you. To complete the "B's", take a 30 day round of vitamin B1 (Thiamine). Do a 30 day run of B1 about every 6 months. Tres importante.

I think you could really use some Zinc, as well. But, you gotta be careful. It's very strong and can do damage if you overdo it. Use quality 'liquid' Zinc (Metagenics is a long reputable brand), for the best absorption. Use a dropper and put only half a mililitre in a glass of water each day. Should notice improvements in about a week. Do that for a good month, and if everything's okay, keep going with it. It's great maintenance.

Hmmmm. You know, I was gonna stop here...but, hell...I may as well round this off for a complete health regimen for you.

A good quality Fish Oil, is a must. No exceptions.

A good quality calcium/magnesium supplement is also a must. Make sure it has vitamin D3 (from cholecalciferol) in it, for the best absorption possible.

Finally, get yourself on a really good mutli-vitamin/mineral supplement.

Stay away from the drugstore brands. They're junk. With supplements, you gotta go with reputable brands from a reputable health store. No 'Centrum, One-A-Day' bullshit.

That oughta do it, I think. That's a well-rounded regimen that anyone over 50 years old should take as a good basic foundation for continued health and maintenance.

Seriously, Zen. Get to a reputable health food store. And Zen...run...don't walk. You need help, and right now!

Ultimately you should be seeing a good ND (Naturopathic Doctor), or better still, an Integrative Doctor, but if you can't or don't want to...this regimen is a nicely rounded one and you'll save yourself a few bucks.

And hey, let us know how you're doing in about a month, or so. I'd love to hear how things are coming along. ;-)

Well, back to painting!

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[-] 2 points by Renneye (3835) 5 months ago

Well, you're here. That would suggest different.

"I can't remember shit these days."

https://occupywallst.org/forum/the-debate-independence-or-partisanship/#comment-1027585

Like I said Zen...the B vitamins. They're all about the good neurological brain stuff and memory. Particularly extra B1 (Thiamine). But they work best when you're getting the whole spectrum of B's.

And take in a soothing song or something, would you!!

This one you posted was good. I couldn't stop singing it for a month.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrC3Bf-CvHU

Hurry on now. Get to the health food store. Pitter Patter.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

That site is the Alex Jones of anything natural.

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

they were more fun, when they stuck to bigfoot and UFO's.

Now they peddle some rather dangerous, misinformative shit.

Look at the return of mumps and measles.

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

He hates foreigners, so don't mind him but here are 3 reality checks to you for old time sakes and hello cobber ;-) & solidarity @ u + yrs [humans, chucks & 'pork-bone-puppy'] & also vry nc 2 hr th gd nws re. bees and Tasmania. Sorry I never got to read your 'removed' comment (^up there^) but gotta put up with that shit here to keep trying to bring the deeper truths to our other anglophone breathren & @ The 99% :

pax, amor et lux ...

Edit: Extreme shame re. the vindictive removal of Builder's inoffensive comment to which I replied above.

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

I try not to think about that too much & carry on regardless + fyi :

pax ...

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Since you are allegedly in the UK and you do nothing but attack Americans, to the exclusion of any pertinent information of your own community, it would be YOU who HATES foreigners.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/04/09/3422063/england-town-sea-level-rise/

Look what's happening in Canada as the Neolibe(R)tarians continue to spread their philosophy.

http://o.canada.com/news/conservative-government-looking-to-bolster-canadas-arms-trade-with-developing-countries/

http://www.vice.com/read/canada-is-ramping-up-its-arms-exporting-trade

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Aww, de-dums ! Are you feeling under ''attack'' ?!! Should I merely consider the UK my ''community'' in this globalised world and how come you have so internalised my criticisms of The US Corporatocracy - The 1% Lackeys and The 0.01% Parasite Class Oligarchy and taken what I say so personally, huh ?!!!

Have you swallowed one too many - 'Nationalism Pills' now ? D'you know what Oscar Wilde said about 'Nationalism' ? Is it a case of ... 'Amerika Uber Alles' and 'my oligarchs .. wrong or right' ? Should I just stick to matters'UK'? Does what the US does, have a disproportionate impact on the rest of the world ?

Why are you psychologically so aligned with The Ruling Class in The U$A ? Is there really any point in this dialogue ? Remember (cf.your 'Punk v Sharia thread) what happens when you exchange comments with me ? When you don't like what is said to you - you merely opt to ban, remove and censure, right ?

Nice links but what were their relevance here ? No point giving you any links but I append the following for any curious readers and leave it to them to judge their relevance here :

George Monbiot's article (1st link) is written from a UK perspective but the reality, alluded to therein - transposes itself totally to the USA and Gary Younge's excellent piece, speaks loudly for itself really.

e tenebris, lux ...

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[-] -1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

Leo Tolstoy? I thought I read that under definition of repelicans ! Hey, I'm doing a piece on ignorance. What is the post where flip calls you 'old'. ( poor flip :(

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[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

I was just thinking that! Well I can't even keep track of the posts.

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017184612

What more in the way of proof is needed?

Thanks to a (R)epelican't stacked court.

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Watch, 'em change the subject.

They always do when faced with reality.

I'll post Bernie's reaction later.

Just like hchc posting bullshit reactions to things I've said and then deleting them. It's part of the MO of the soap opera of the banned.

Fuck 'em.

Libe(R)taian bullshit all around us.

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[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

When all they have is shit.

Shit is all they toss around.

Like monkeys in cages.

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[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

I like how the place will dead, until you or I post something and then the trolls all come out to play.

all they got is shit, so that's all they can toss around.

sick motherfuckers.

Did you notice that these fuck head libe(R)tarians failed notice the GM death panels that killed to save 57 cents on an ignition switch?

Oh no.. that's just market forces.

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

They're waiting for CATO/Koch headquarters to put something together for them.

You didn't really think they could think for themselves, did you?

Or perhaps they were waiting for word from the head of the soap opera of the banned to give them the green light?

they do need a leader, you know.

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Unfortunately, they aren't anywhere near done yet.

They have all the Koch money to spend.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/04/02/3421941/house-passes-bridenstine-bill/

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

It's the amount of time, money and effort spent on this shit.

I don't know how it is in Vermont, but there's plenty of people around here who still fall for the Koch/ALEC/Alex Jones/FLAKESnews bullshit, about how it's about thousands and thousands of scientists who made this all up.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

My guess would be that FLAKESnews viewership would also be among the lowest of any State.

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

It is a way of life for em, the messaging is different though. Working very well still apparently.

[-] -1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

we agree here mr dog, and I congratulate you on an intelligent and reasoned response. the "fuck you" was not needed but I guess you feel differently. I wish you would respond to my comments in the same way but I am not too optimistic on that front. here is noam expanding on what you said -

SPIEGEL: So for you, Republicans and Democrats represent just slight variations of the same political platform?

Chomsky: Of course there are differences, but they are not fundamental. Nobody should have any illusions. The United States has essentially a one-party system and the ruling party is the business party.

SPIEGEL: You exaggerate. In almost all vital questions -- from the taxation of the rich to nuclear energy -- there are different positions. At least on the issues of war and peace, the parties differ considerably. The Republicans want to fight in Iraq until victory, even if that takes a 100 years, according to McCain. The Democrats demand a withdrawal plan.

Chomsky: Let us look at the “differences” more closely, and we recognize how limited and cynical they are. The hawks say, if we continue we can win. The doves say, it is costing us too much. But try to find an American politician who says frankly that this aggression is a crime: the issue is not whether we win or not, whether it is expensive or not. Remember the Russian invasion of Afghanistan? Did we have a debate whether the Russians can win the war or whether it is too expensive? This may have been the debate at the Kremlin, or in Pravda. But this is the kind of debate you would expect in a totalitarian society. If General Petraeus could achieve in Iraq what Putin achieved in Chechnya, he would be crowned king. The key question here is whether we apply the same standards to ourselves that we apply to others.

SPIEGEL: Who prevents intellectuals from asking and critically answering these questions? You praised the freedom of speech in the United States.

Chomsky: The intellectual world is deeply conformist. Hans Morgenthau, who was a founder of realist international relations theory, once condemned what he called “the conformist subservience to power” on the part of the intellectuals. George Orwell wrote that nationalists, who are practically the whole intellectual class of a country, not only do not disapprove of the crimes of their own state, but have the remarkable capacity not even to see them. That is correct. We talk a lot about the crimes of others. When it comes to our own crimes, we are nationalists in the Orwellian sense.

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[-] -1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

by the way - which side was our beloved Madison on?? in your reading of history - nice quotes by the way but when Jefferson - that lover of slaves (literally) made that quote - where did he put Madison?

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[-] -1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

james Madison - can you answer the question - by the way - don't you have to go to work or something. it's MONDAY - did you forget?

[-] -1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

I am not tony anyone or hc but no way to convince you of that - nor do I need to. think what you like - i have no idea what you are talking about with fat tony and all. you have written to me, previously, that you don't try to make sense - so what should i think of that?I don't agree with you view of history. you claim that "we" will defeat conservatism - and who might that we be - the liberal wing of the business party. it is easily demonstrated that this is not the way to go. take a look at the liberals - Wilson, jfk, lbj - should i go on - no i don't think so. how about coffee and chocolate?

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[-] 0 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

you said - "You fukers have very successfully destroyed this forum." - now you are a self proclaimed mainstream democratic party supporter and you have come to an anarchist site - a site where the founders have specifically disavowed any partisan politics and i am destroying it. the logic is impressive - i think it was from kissenger that i first heard the phrase - "a logical illogicality."

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[-] -1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

you are right i did not mention it. that does not change in any way what i just wrote

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[-] 1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

i don't get it - but you are correct - i did mention henry k. now how about Madison. do you realize what an anti democratic (small d here) elitist he was. can you answer my question. and thanks very much for not throwing your usual insult. i really don't need them - gotta go to work - looking forward to your comments on Madison!

[-] -3 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

ZD can't make any comparisons to website traffic here- and every other occupy site- to anything that went on about two years ago. Its just an attack machine, probably why things didn't work out for him/her.

Apparently no one has informed it that online traffic is usually a direct result of real traffic. Hence trending.

[-] -2 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

that sounds convincing to me but i have no idea what you are talking about - i am old and not well informed about this type of thing

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Basically if something is trending on twitter, its because its become a hot topic. If its an event, you will see lots of chatter on it over the internet. But something has to happen to create that.

We were in the streets across the entire nation. Then tptb - including people that ZD actively phone banked for the following fall (how sincere, eh?) decided that it needed to be shut down. Can't have the people actually getting involved!!

ZD is simply making a very poorly informed viewpoint on website traffic in general.

We all know the government pays trolls to go to sites and act deranged, promote status quo viewpoints, etc. Same things they do in real life at occupy. We also know the DNC and the RNC actively promote their parties via trolls.

They do this because they believe they have something to benefit from.

That being said, anyone can do an analysis on websites. I suggest ZD and Shooz so some analysis before jumping to conclusions on why occupy related web traffic is down.

[-] 0 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

thanks very much - well done - I have personally seen govt agents trying to disrupt peace demos - disgusting! like some of the things going on here

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Coming from a guy that's posted from Alex Jones, Breitbart, and the fucking John Birch Society, you really have no room to talk.

Not to mention your hate for the 99%.

[-] -2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

^point proven.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Thanks for the down votes, jerk. Let's me know I've told the truth.

Go back to Alex Jones.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Not mention your active participation in a group that attacked MANY posters in an effort to drive them from the forum.

Although you and they must be PROUD of your success, you really have no place at all trying to blame it on anyone but yourself and the rest of the assholes that participated in those activities.

Would you care to admit for the few remaining how many times you were banned for those, and other equally nefarious activities?

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[-] -1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

well, my mistake, i thought you had read the comment from Chomsky that was posted somewhere else- it was SOUTH Vietnam that kennedy carpet bombed - was it not? it does show your lack of knowledge of history though - the fact that you did not know that the liberal democrats bombed Vietnam - oh, yea , lbj was a liberal - did lots of good things - war on poverty, expansion of Medicaid - just so happened that he also sent my best friend to die in the jungle - for what was that again?

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[-] 2 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

you are an old dog so I will assume you know who Justine is - she sent this to me a while back - From: Justine Tunney Subject: Re: website trouble

What on earth are you talking about with the democratic party? We don't have anything to do with them. Not in the slightest. Don't believe the lies. I mean... we've got all this stuff about revolution on the website. :rolls eyes: You should know better if you've been on the site for the past few years :P .............ok, I am back now - .thanks for your reasonable response - I would much rather have a conversation than the usual throwing of insults. we did not need that last bit did we? here is noam's take on global warming and our president - "Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who died recently and was the object of mockery, insult, and hatred throughout the Western world, attended a session of the U.N. General Assembly a few years ago where he elicited all sorts of ridicule for calling George W. Bush a devil. He also gave a speech there that was quite interesting. Of course, Venezuela is a major oil producer. Oil is practically their whole gross domestic product. In that speech, he warned of the dangers of the overuse of fossil fuels and urged producer and consumer countries to get together and try to work out ways to reduce fossil fuel use. That was pretty amazing on the part of an oil producer. You know, he was part Indian, of indigenous background. Unlike the funny things he did, this aspect of his actions at the U.N. was never even reported.

So, at one extreme you have indigenous, tribal societies trying to stem the race to disaster. At the other extreme, the richest, most powerful societies in world history, like the United States and Canada, are racing full-speed ahead to destroy the environment as quickly as possible. Unlike Ecuador, and indigenous societies throughout the world, they want to extract every drop of hydrocarbons from the ground with all possible speed.

Both political parties, President Obama, the media, and the international press seem to be looking forward with great enthusiasm to what they call “a century of energy independence” for the United States. Energy independence is an almost meaningless concept, but put that aside. What they mean is: we’ll have a century in which to maximize the use of fossil fuels and contribute to destroying the world.

And that’s pretty much the case everywhere. Admittedly, when it comes to alternative energy development, Europe is doing something. Meanwhile, the United States, the richest and most powerful country in world history, is the only nation among perhaps 100 relevant ones that doesn’t have a national policy for restricting the use of fossil fuels, that doesn’t even have renewable energy targets. It’s not because the population doesn’t want it. Americans are pretty close to the international norm in their concern about global warming. It’s institutional structures that block change. Business interests don’t want it and they’re overwhelmingly powerful in determining policy, so you get a big gap between opinion and policy on lots of issues, including this one.

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[-] -1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

the dog boy or Obama?

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[-] 1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

right on! the dog boy has made it clear where he stands - and it is not with ows

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[-] 0 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

if you think you are a linguist expert I am surprised. first you say "Jart is simply mistaken" in response to her statement that ." the democratic party? We don't have anything to do with them. Not in the slightest." - then you say "OWS is an anarchist movement" - what the hell are you smoking - I want some! anyway it is a small point - we all know your thoughts are not coherent. but I do want to thank you for coming out as a straight on democratic party supporter and o not an ows supporter. as for your thoughts on anarchism - who cares what you think. nobody with a brain thinks we will trying to institute an anarchist system in the near future - it is a vision for the future and a guide to what might be possible.

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[-] 0 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

that's it? that's all you got? what a sad case you are. to which lies are you referring? did you learn this tactic from shooz or did you come up with it yourself? so you have no response and all you can say is LIES! never pointing out one of them. don't you realize how weak that is - no - come on even a little boy would know - are you a little boy? you resort to name calling and screeching when your argument is destroyed - point by point. everyone here knows that - well maybe there are two who don't. don't you have a democratic facebook page or twitter account you can go to and do your thing. or better yet - how about having real debates and discussion. I would still like to know what you are smoking - I am concerned that you are probably drinking your medication - maybe not - you are up pretty early for a drunk.

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[-] -1 points by flip (6822) 5 months ago

well done - thanks - except for the last obligatory obscenities. very funny by the way - the up early line. I agree with much of what you say here. I also understand the legitimate questions of tactics - such as should we have a list of demands. where we differ it seems is that you think you know the right way forward and I realize that nobody has a crystal ball. what I do not understand is how you dismiss my last comment above - am I wrong to ask you to point out the lies or was it something else? as far as name dropping goes - I don't think you know what that phrase means. to point out that one of the founders of occupy says - " the democratic party? We don't have anything to do with them. Not in the slightest." is not name dropping. I know you don't like it but you and the shooz boy should call it by its real name. yours is a tactic of mainstream politicians and it has no place here.

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[-] -1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

Beware of two trolls, flip and JGriff, there just here causing trouble.

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[-] 3 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

My thoughts exactly. This flip can't handle facts. He also knows how to argue both sides of an argument and win both. Classic symptoms of repelicanism. Then, he and his sock puppets give each other congrats on their genius. Classic, classic repelicanism.

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[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"can we find corruption among either party? I'm sure we can . . ."

Its very hard for you to get too in depth on that one, eh?

Better stick to the attack style political ads I guess.

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[-] 3 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Because your solutions are to put in more corrupt people. I mean, jesus you just said if Bernie doesnt run, you would vote for Hillary. And this from someone who claims voting and politicians are the answer to everything.

Almost as if you have been completely asleep or very very young.

Vermont has relatively few problems because its Vermont. No pain no gain.

Go to NY. Go get a dose of what its like to live in a rampant police state, throwing people in jail all over, taking your rights, shipping out your jobs, etc etc etc.

Like I always say, your beloved Dems helped to SHUT DOWN the very cause and site you are on.

If thats enough to get you to say fuck em, then probably nothing ever will be. Or you are simply here to pollute.

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Go ask the people who run this site what they think of your short sighted garbage.

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[-] -3 points by elf4 (-4) 5 months ago

ZenDog I guess living up in the backwoods of Vermont, you never acquired any "street smarts". Only a po dunk dolt would let themselves be played so easily by our political false dichotomy.

It's a con, a street hustle. Wake up! Get out of your country cabin and look around.

Part of the con they are so easily playing you with is called the Hegelian dialectic (look it up). That's all the dog and pony show stuff you so easily get mesmerized by. The good cop// bad cop ploy that you extol as a clear sign of political contrast. These battles are allowed to be played out so the public can vent through discourse and believe in self determination.

All of this political theatre is meant to distract and captivate the public on ancillary issues. The major core issues in our society do NOT change with EITHER party. Such as the FED, the military industr cmplx, crony capitalism, energy, money in politics, globalization,etc

It is so frustrating for those of us that see through this con like glass. to watch fools fall for this nonsense.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

What made you think you needed another puppet to make this comment?

It's you who's fallen through the looking glass.

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