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Forum Post: Rush of New Users Pushing Wedge Issues

Posted 5 years ago on Dec. 21, 2012, 7:07 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic (5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Very important video about how to determine who is who and on what side

Seriously where are these people coming from? Who joins an Occupy Wall Street forum out of the blue over a year after the movement started just to talk about gun laws? I think there could be a conspiracy here.



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[-] 7 points by bensdad (8977) 5 years ago

you mean you think a marketing organization that pays its fearless leader $1,400,000 per year would pay some trolls to spew crap at us?

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago


They might even persuade people into doing it for free. They love the term interns. Either way it is a strategy put forth by some gun organization. They could even be doing a double role game too.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

~"A gristmill or grist mill is a building in which grain is ground into flour"

is opposition what keeps this place moving?

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Rhetorically, is the "rush of new users" anything to do with the gun issue ? Me thinx yes, ergo :

The other thing to consider re. the recent 'Wedgey-Trolls', is that it is the holidays so every half-wit, junior high - graduate school, conservative, reactionary, think-they-are-libertarian-but-don't-know shit youngling, is home on Mom's 'puter, trying to get a rise - maybe, lol.

Happy Solstice, Xmas, New Year & birhday (well. why not?) to you Trev & thanx man for all your good work here.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

It all just makes me think of this video I recently saw about the Asch Experiment.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Talking of videos, check out this one from the twerp from the NRA (Needing Rifles Always?) :

worra fkn nutter !

[-] 5 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Republicans pushing for bigger government all the time. Then they blame it on liberals. Fucking hacks.

Why not just put the TSA everywhere? This shit makes me angry.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Here's a wedge issue between The 0.01% Parasites, their 1% lackeys and self-selecting minions & the rest of the 98.99% :

"Please share this article with as many people as you can. Time is running out, and we need to wake up as many people as possible." You say "angry" and I'll say sustained, focussed apoplexy is in order !!

Thanx for all your doings here Trev, peace and contentment to you and yours, for solstice, yule and new year and beyond ~>

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22863) 5 years ago

Every American should read that article. We are at an important juncture in this country. If Americans don't start waking up to the facts outlined in that article, which is just so hard to absorb, but is what has to be done, we are going to soon be finished. The decline will not take all that long.

"Back in the 1970s, about one out of every 50 Americans was on food stamps. Today, about one out of every 6.5 Americans is on food stamps."

"Back in 1950, more than 80 percent of all men in the United States had jobs. Today, less than 65 percent of all men in the United States have jobs."

"If you can believe it, 53 percent of all Americans with a bachelor’s degree under the age of 25 were either unemployed or underemployed last year." And on and on.

It does not have to be this way. There is plenty of wealth to go around.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Iceland shows the way as you say elsewhere on this board and I'd add that Ireland showed what not to do as the 'democratic govt.' sold the Irish people down the river to bailout privates Irish banks' debts & :

fiat lux et fiat justitia ...

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

everyone should get food stamps

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

Everyone does. Greenbacks buy food.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 5 years ago

Great link. Now we have our own wedge issue ---- maybe we, supporters of occupy should occupy the dialogue for a while instead of the 1% and their minions. Goodness knows there are whole hell of a lot more occupy supporters than there are 1%. At one point last falls, numerous mainstream polls showed between 40% and 50% of Americans supported the Occupy movement. 40% is a lot more than 1% last time I checked. Wait. Let me go check again. . . . . . . . . Yup. Still a lot more. :)

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Let the 1% 'wedge this' where the sun don't shine :

"Data released by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) on December 19 indicate that 13.1 percent of the workforce, or more than one in eight workers, will be out of a job at some point in 2013.

The EPI calculates that 14.9 percent of the workforce, or some 23 million people, were unemployed at one time or another in 2011. (The 2012 rate has not yet been calculated, of course). This figure for 2011 contrasts sharply with the official annual jobless rate of 8.9 percent, which is simply the average official monthly unemployment rate for the year.

The holiday season jobs situation remains grim in the US for tens of millions, even as the Obama administration and the media blather on about the strength of the American economy.

A more accurate glimpse of social reality in the US was provided by a recent item on the Bloomberg Businessweek web site, headlined “Banks See Rich Returns as Staff Suffers,” which began: “For employees at the biggest Wall Street banks, 2012 brought a humbling post-crisis reality of job cuts, lower pay and tarnished reputations. For investors, it was a happier story.”

The article noted that the Standard & Poor’s 500 Financial Index, covering some 81 Wall Street firms, was up 27 percent for 2012, its largest increase since 2003, led by a 104 percent gain by Bank of America Corp. As Bloomberg Businessweek pointed out, “Shareholders, impatient for the industry to boost profit, were rewarded as Wall Street firms cut jobs and pay, and exited businesses.”

Nine major banks—Deutsche Bank, Barclays, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup, UBS, Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley—reported more than 30,000 job cuts between them in the first nine months of this year.

Investors have rewarded the financial firms that most ruthlessly slashed jobs. Citigroup stock jumped 6.3 percent when company officials announced “the New York-based bank would cut 11,000 jobs.”

Jobless claims for the week ending December 15 jumped unexpectedly to 361,000, an increase of 17,000 from the previous week’s revised figure, signaling, in the words of one commentator, “an unwelcome speed bump in the labor market’s recovery.”

Talk of a recovery is empty and cynical in face of the actual economic reality. There are currently 22.7 million people officially unemployed or under-employed in the US, or some 14.4 percent of the labor force. This figure is extremely misleading, as the official jobless rate has remained steady or dropped primarily due to people leaving the workforce. The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) excludes millions who have given up looking for work from its jobless category.

Since the beginning of 2007, the civilian workforce participation rate has declined by 2.8 percent (from 66.4 percent to 63.6 percent, the lowest figure in decades), or more than 4 million people. Some 350,000 dropped out of the labor force in November alone. A record 89.2 million people in the US (excluding children, the disabled, etc.) are considered to be “not in the labor force” by the BLS. This compares with 143.2 million who are employed.

The EPI estimates that in November the US labor market had 3.7 million fewer jobs than in December 2007, when the latest recession officially began. Taking into account population growth, “the economy should have added 5.2 million jobs since December 2007 just to keep the unemployment rate stable. Counting jobs lost and jobs that should have been added, the U.S. economy has a jobs shortfall of 8.9 million.”

Long-term unemployment remains a plague officially for five million in the US, approximately 40 percent of the government’s jobless total. Some 2.1 million people out of work for more than six months face the possibility of losing benefits December 29, with another one million threatened over the next three months if Congress fails to extend emergency jobless benefits.

fiat lux et fiat justitia ...

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 5 years ago

Justice is what love looks like in public, according to Cornel West. It's time for nonviolent direct action of all forms to unseat the corporatists who have hijacked our great republic. It's time for some justice. It's time. There's nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Here's an idea whose time has come 'tr' :

Sorry for any repetition & peace, joy and contentment to you and yours, for the hols & beyond, 'tr'.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Thanks and same to you!

I read those 75 stats in a post from OTP earlier. Shocking.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Please also consider "Forecast : 13.1% Of US Workers To Be Jobless in 2013", by David Walsh : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33404.htm & I missed OTP's post but my favourite web-site of all time - ie The Mighty I.C.H. - meant that I caught up, eventually. Take care & be well, Trev. :-)

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 5 years ago

Ha. Nice video clip. Quite true. Oh, there's no doubt that the paid and unpaid troll traffic is rising. To be honest, I think their paranoia is unfounded because to me it seems that supporters of the Occupy movement in general are more aimed at unseating the corporatists who have hijacked our democracy, our economy and our mindset (materialism abounds). But, it's of course also true that guns are big business . . . And big business has definitely seen Occupy movement as a threat. And since they don't understand it fully, they may be operating under the mode of "attack everything occupy related". Disrupt and distract. Disrupt and distract. They think we might take our eye of the ball. But they're wrong.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

I like this comment!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 5 years ago

They are so fucking wrong. :)

[-] 2 points by occupycampbellco (34) from Newport, KY 5 years ago

It is a conspiracy, and I've been one of the most vocal in pointing this out.

I'm on to the dirty tricks of the 1%.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

this place is politics as the news changes so will those interested

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Seriously where are these people coming from?

Who joins an Occupy Wall Street forum out of the blue over a year after the movement started just to talk about gun laws?

I think there is a definite conspiracy here.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

I like both of these guys and their work. Sort of says something about me that for so many years I have enjoyed action movies. Have you ever heard of this idea that many of us "Escape from Intimacy". Meaning we can watch movies, tv, play games, do things on the cumputer, drink alcohol, or even smoke biddies, but we could be avoiding getting to know ourself, deal with problems or concerns. The idea is that in a media rich culture, tv culture, ...I don't have to work on relationships ... I don't have to work on myelf. I don't have to - think, talk to others about current events, work on community projects, find out what is going on in politics. There is a good book like 20 years old by this title.

Anyway, I'm a smart guy. But maybe I'm in denial of all the time I spent entertaining myself.

Thanks for the post. There are a lot of new users.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Very interesting comment.

Who wrote the book? I would like to read it. I tried looking up the title "Escape from Intimacy" but all I found on the Z was a book about sex addiction.

Entertainment is not a bad thing. It should include friends, family, and community building though.

Also I know several people that don't watch tv and they smoke biddies while building relationships with friends. Biddies are green, right? People have different terms all over the place.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Yes, you are right that book is actually a kind of deeper study for people in 12 step programs. It is a good book, but not for people that haven't gone to alanon or one of the many 12 step programs. It was a difficult, tiring period of my life and it left a lot of marks.

People in 12 step programs actually say there are deeper core issues that are underneth things like addictions. Intimacy can be something that needs to be worked on as a core issue.

Biddies are a kind of ciggarette you get in India. Bidis (pronounced bee-dees) are small hand-rolled cigarettes manufactured in India and other southeast Asian countries. Just joking around. I've always been interested in different cultures.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago


No, just one issue.

They came here to promote gun nuttery and attack those that oppose it.

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 5 years ago

"troll" is a label, a distortion. It implies we know what they are doing. We do not. UNLESS we look at their argument or pitch and test them over time to see if they are reasonable and consistent.

Such a term cuts short the potential recognition of an agenda, generalizing the behaviors with an assumption of random nonsense.

A cognitive infiltration uses cognitive distortions which are presented as reality and agreed upon by a false group. Here are the basic cognitive distortions that therapists detect when there are behaviorial issues. In speech and discourse there can be a social inducement to engage in the desired perceptional distortion.

  1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories. If things are less than perfect self is viewed as failure

  2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous failure.

  3. Mental filter: Details in life (positive or negative) are amplified in importance while opposite is rejected.

  4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.

  5. Mind reading: One absolutely concludes that others are reacting positively or negatively without investigating reality.

  6. Fortune Telling: Based on previous 5 distortions, anticipation of negative or positive outcome of situations is established

  7. Catastrophizing: Exaggerated importance of self's failures and others successes.

  8. Emotional reasoning: One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation. ie.

  9. "Should" statements: Self imposed rules about behavior creating guilt at self inability to adhere and anger at others in their inability to conform to self's rules.

  10. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.

  11. Personalization: Thinking that the actions or statements of others are a reaction to you.

  12. Entitlement: Believing that you deserve things you have not earned.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 5 years ago

Who do you think you're fooling here . . . troll?

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 5 years ago

Explaining how agendas are executed with cognitive distortions. And, getting rid of the notion that a label can be used to effectively understand what is happening,


[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago