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Forum Post: Rolling Integrity ~ an answer to a Occupy 3rd Political Party

Posted 2 months ago on Aug. 24, 2014, 10:36 a.m. EST by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

First View / First Draft .... tear it up ....

Integrity ~

noun

  1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

and, most importantly ;

  1. the state of being whole and undivided.

~~~~~

Occupy promotes the state of being whole and undivided.

Occupy truly does not want to see a 3rd political party...

Occupy wants to see our elected leaders as Statesman ... as leaders who will not sell out to any group ... as leaders who will independently stand on their own, and do their best for the people whom they represent, the Country and the World.

~~~~~

Rolling Integrity will unite the Statesman from all existing Parties who commit to Integrity and Independence...

Rolling Integrity will unite behind and support these Leaders of Integrity....

Rolling Integrity will assist in removing those without Integrity from office ... from any Political Party...

Rolling Integrity will educate the people on specific issues of policy and demand bills of single issue purity ...

Rolling Integrity will implement a Real time online Consensus Building Polling system that serves to guide a better understanding of the impact of current legislation and policy matters ....

etc.

aside from final drafting the Rolling Integrity charter ..or what-ever its called.... we can start by listing the web resources that tell us who has sold out ...

such as; List of members of the American Legislative Exchange Council http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_American_Legislative_Exchange_Council

52 Comments

52 Comments


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[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

http://sunlightfoundation.com/tools/ has a slew of good data

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 2 months ago

Maybe the NRA "grades/ratings" can be a useful measure.

https://www.nrapvf.org/grades/

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

thanks !

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 2 months ago

YW. Maybe a list of pols who are climate deniers.

http://grist.org/politics/meet-the-climate-deniers-who-want-to-be-president/

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

hahahaha ... LUV IT !!!

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 2 months ago

Is your Gov a climate denier?

http://ecowatch.com/2014/07/02/is-your-governor-a-climate-denier/

Simple but effective measure

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

aside from final drafting the Rolling Integrity charter ..or what-ever its called.... we can start by listing the web resources that tell us who has sold out ...

such as;

List of members of the American Legislative Exchange Council

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_American_Legislative_Exchange_Council

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

tweet

DKAtoday @DKAtoday · 6s

Can this B correct?

ALEC legislative membership = 18 Democrats & 601 Republicans?

Really?

Do you know about ALEC ?

Shouldn't You?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

oh... btw... I registered http://rollingintegrity.com & http://rollingintegrity.org ... just in case we get sll this going ... ;)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

OK - cool - now we can have reference points to direct too. Now all we gotta do is populate it with information and tools as well as provide a coherent explanation of what it is all about and for.

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[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

hey... DK ... really ? ... 903+18 ... that's more than I thought !!! .. anyway I see you got good argument going with little help... I just got in... and need to be back at 5:30 ... too tired to read ... :) best luck

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

903 + 18 = ???? what ????

Hey Brad - get some sleep - I am still trying to find my way forward on what we had discussed last night = some of tonight's comments.

[-] 0 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

ok... heh... I am tired... typed it wrong ,,, 18 Democrats & 601 Republicans .. cya ;)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Later

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 2 months ago

agreed

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1753) 2 months ago

"Occupy wants to see our elected leaders as Statesman"

That is probably not for you to configure. Frustrating yes, for you to solve no.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

well ... then what's your idea ?

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1753) 2 months ago

Provide a platform for dissent to go in any chosen direction.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

like any open forum... like Facebook or even occupywallst.org ?

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1753) 2 months ago

Similar, but more in the flesh. Provide a physical platform, as in the point of an occupation and the reason it was so important, imo.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

ok... I'll buy that,,, like targeting specific locations ?....

however ... personally I believe we need to first define the actual objective/s ... in a way that guides us a well as promoting interest of others.... and that ... I agree .. is not for me to define ... it's for all of us to define

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1753) 2 months ago

After much reflection, and much thought on the various after market topics-fail vs succeed, demands vs no demands, what was teh point, leaders vs horizontal- I honestly believe the best goal of occupy was (and they succeeded in this widly) to provide the platform for change.

Whatever the people decide is the path, or whichever way they are steered (more likely) then so be it.

But without involved people at some level, then nothing happens. So in that regards, I would rather roll the dice than stay where we were.

You never know if that cat is still in the box till ya open it, and personally I am glad we did.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

I believe that ultimately Occupy will born many, many monumental changes ...

A) I see Direct Democracy becoming a reality because of Occupy...

B) I see Consensus building real-time polling becoming a reality because of Occupy,,,

C) I see a People's Veto becoming a reality because of Occupy ...

D) I see Alternative Banking and Social Wealth Investment becoming a reality because of Occupy ...

and much more ...

however all that will take time... not only in the development ... but also in the acceptance ...

In the Interim ... we must realize the power an organized Occupy can hold... Look at what Rolling Jubilee has done !! ... and it didn't hurt Occupy in one bit,,, it was born from Occupy ,,,

All agree... our political system has collapsed on itself ... we need something new .. and Direct Democracy can provide that something new....

however in the interim... let's unite & clean up the existing mess !!!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

And your timely provided list of ALEC members - is so prime for a very auspicious starting point for clearing the way to begin making positive changes - which would among other things include needed clean-up.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

yeah!! :)..

we need help drafting the charter or mission statement, whatever it's called .... who's the best writer here ?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

That's a tough question - in the past I would have asked Girl Friday to help out - but she has not been around. thrashingmasks will no doubt want in on it ( huge mistake to let it ). I would suggest dropping off an e-mail to jart and perhaps Mica for their input. Other than that the rolling jubilee group might be a good resource for help or maybe even contacting the ACLU for some advice ( free I would hope ).

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago
[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

DK... good ideas,,, but I can't be here much for next few weeks... and I am not a writer at all !!! hehe ... pretty good at projective geometry though :) ...

I think it's a good idea.. why don't you and any who wants to ..take over and run with it ;)

I can provide web space and coding if needed .. once the project is defined ... need to be at work... 5am... for next six days straight ,,,

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

You will be involved ( so I would expect ) - but put together the full proposal of what you have in mind ( A thru Z ) - include any informational links that you have collected that are part of the proposal - send it on a PM - I will get back to you on it with any questions for clarification. I have never done a project like this before - so I can't tell you ( or myself for that matter ) what to expect. But I will do my best to find help and see if something can not be put into motion. This may end up going well outside of this site - to be able to be acted upon - I do not know. So think about it take some time and throw ( put together ) together what you have. OK?

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

great !! DK... I honestly havn't given it much thought yet... just came to mind today... but... I'll do my best... and I do have a lot of links somewhere... I jump in as often as I can ;)

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

OK - I hear ya. Rememberize that this does not need to be rushed ( not too much anyway ) - as it needs to be as clear an outline - of the goal (s) and the approach (s) to making that goal (s) as possible. Note - that I am also sick ( 24/7/365 ) and that some days I function better than on other days. This project to make a better world for all - is - all important. As such it will be a huge challenge and stress for me to carry forward - but will also be so very inspiring. What I am trying to say is I will do my best - but my best may very well not be good enough - I do look forward to the attempt.

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

OK - I hear ya. Rememberize that this does not need to be rushed ( not too much anyway ) - as it needs to be as clear an outline - of the goal (s) and the approach (s) to making that goal (s) as possible. Note - that I am also sick ( 24/7/365 ) and that some days I function better than on other days. This project to make a better world for all - is - all important. As such it will be a huge challenge and stress for me to carry forward - but will also be so very inspiring. What I am trying to say is I will do my best - but my best may very well not be good enough - I do look forward to the attempt.

Your best is always good enough. It might be hard at times, but getting out of bed and taking a walk is good for fibromyalgia.

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

Jart and Micah both consider OWS dead and have since moved on to other projects. Jart does not even believe in direct democracy anymore. She has become an aristocrat.

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

I'm the best writer here. What is it you want to include in the mission statement.

I would say the most important thing is that whatever we do between us should reflect what we desire for society at large. In other words, all the collective endeavours we do should be organized like we want the final product (society) organized.

To me, this was one of the biggest flaws of OWS online activity. Like this forum was never organized in similar fashion to the GA. It was based on jart controlling things, her nominating a few mods, etc... Basically a jartocracy. I think this is a major flaw. You can't have a site run in autocratic fashion where you tell people they should use direct democracy to run society.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

DA...;) ok first... ultimately we will have a direct democracy ... but that is a whole different argument...

what we are suggesting here... is simply an activist based project that does it's best to rid our government from politicians who have more interest in self gain,, than interest in helping the people...

as well as promoting those politicians (statesman, as I suggest we call them) who put the people first,,,,

as well as educating the people who the good guys & bad guys are....

I really don't this project is trying to do anymore than that....

the greater society moving type stuff cold be another project no ?... that's my opinon

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

is simply an activist based project that does it's best to rid our government from politicians who have more interest in self gain,, than interest in helping the people...

as well as promoting those politicians (statesman, as I suggest we call them) who put the people first,,,,

as well as educating the people who the good guys & bad guys are....

OK - if you have informational links or tool links to include send em along - and with each - express as to how you see them being used.

As activists - I - see already established groups being approached and invited to participate = synergy. As well as the program to be aired out to all who might be interested in the information - as they too can act on it and share it out further.

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[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

Government - State & Federal - is -"NOT" - just gonna let you ( well probably will let you - as you are not a citizen of the USA in the 1st place ) Walk Away. The Government will send the institutions of government after those who feel like just walking away - ya know the judicial institutions - civil and military - the enforcement divisions of government. They will lock up the dissenters and or kill them outright - so that leaves only armed rebellion - in what you suggest.

Yes, with critical mass it will have no choice.

That's the whole ideology and point of Occupy.

WE CAN DO IT OURSELVES. WE NEED NO REPRESENTATIVES.

OWS is about us making initiatives for ourselves, changing things by ourselves, instead of waiting for a government to do it.

It's been almost three years Dan, get on board. Learn what OWS is about already.

[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

FU ya block-head - what you just said amounts to your suggesting an armed rebellion and take over of government. SO - GFYS.

An armed rebellion? No, not at all. I don't believe in that at all.

Actually, what I expressed what the opposite of that. I'm saying we can ignore the representatives and the government if we really want to change. We can do the change ourselves, for ourselves, by ourselves. We don't need to take the government down at all. If we just start organizing ourselves by using less and less of the government, then it will eventually become useless.

You have to read what I write.

This is the exact strategy jart is proposing. She first wanted to go head on with the government, hence the protests and the port blockades, etc... Like in France may 68.

That didn't work. She now proposes an exit strategy where we just get the people that are interested and start are own thing. She thinks we need our own country for this, that's why she was pushing for the idea of Google starting it's own country. I don't think we do. I think we can organize ourselves within the system itself and grow from inside it.

I do not favour attacking the government for a few reasons:

  1. I don't think we need to at all. Attacking the government is legitimizing the government's power over us. I don't think it has power over us if we reach a critical mass and our organized properly.

  2. Occupy tried, it didn't work.

No, I favor completely ignoring the government. That's why I favour no voting.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Government - State & Federal - is -"NOT" - just gonna let you ( well probably will let you - as you are not a citizen of the USA in the 1st place ) Walk Away. The Government will send the institutions of government after those who feel like just walking away - ya know the judicial institutions - civil and military - the enforcement divisions of government. They will lock up the dissenters and or kill them outright - so that leaves only armed rebellion - in what you suggest.

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

Gotta change the actors to be able to change the system.

False.

That actually gives the actors much more power than they really have and shows a blatant misunderstanding of OWS ideology.

OWS is about the people realizing they have more power than what they think. It's about realizing that we don't need others to do the work for us. We Don't need representatives.

One way to change the stage, change the system, is simply to ignore it and start using another one. For example, if people starting organizing themselves in their communities, they could just stop caring about their representatives.

Just get out of the theatre altogether. Exit. Then start your own thing.

This is a concept which activists like jart are now professing a lot. The exit strategy.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

FU ya block-head - what you just said amounts to your suggesting an armed rebellion and take over of government. SO - GFYS.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

quote>>>..." if people starting organizing themselves in their communities, they could just stop caring about their representatives.... "

sure... and the representative still is in position to pass and block legislation ... to continue to wreak havoc on us

[-] -3 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

OWS and further = all of Occupy - Has NOT failed. To the contrary OWS and all of Occupy are only at their very beginnings.

Right, yes, of course, says the man in the bed who never goes out.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the founders themselves are saying that OWS is dead.

There are no longer any GAs.

There are no longer any protests.

There are no longer any blockages.

There is no occupation.

There is no donation money coming in.

Wake up bed boy - or should I say bed bug cause you really are a bug.

THIS is what you fail to understand (?) - and no change will not happen by getting everyone to walk away - it will happen only by getting everyone involved. Involved means working the system. Means OWNING the system.

This is so dumb. The system is broken. Capitalism will always favour the rich. That's what it does. Even if you eliminated the 1% and replaced them with the actors the problem would remain the same.

The only way the populace can own a system as you say is to create a new one that is designed for us. And, guess what, to make such a system we don't need the 1%. We don't need representatives.

Occupy was always about being outside the system. It was never about playing in the system like you want. If you want to play in the system, then make a political party and play in the system. End of story.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

The People United Will Never Be Defeated!

Do yo remember this very true chant from the original OWS protests?

I Do.

And apparently - so do the protestors in Ferguson - as they were chanting it.

OCCUPY has spread across the face of the USA and is sprouting all kinds of protests.

To create a new system - one that is truly "Of By and For The People" The People must take control of the current system - and make the necessary changes.

Change for the better does not happen by having the people walk away.

Walking away only allows those in positions of power to freely continue to increase tyranny.

Thinking that you can replace the current government/system by just creating a new system to operate under - while letting the current government/system to run at the same time - IS - looking for armed confrontation - that armed confrontation will come from the current system which you have tried to ignore.

WTFU

[-] -3 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

Government - State & Federal - is -"NOT" - just gonna let you ( well probably will let you - as you are not a citizen of the USA in the 1st place ) Walk Away. The Government will send the institutions of government after those who feel like just walking away - ya know the judicial institutions - civil and military - the enforcement divisions of government. They will lock up the dissenters and or kill them outright - so that leaves only armed rebellion - in what you suggest.

The reason OWS failed is exactly because of people like you.

People who don't believe in the power of the populace. People who don't believe that if we stand together as the 99% we can beat the 1%. That was the whole point of OWS. It blows my mind that you didn't understand this yet.

When the cops camp and crushed our camps, people like you left and sobbed thinking we were defeated. The cops didn't defeat us, that was temporary, what defeated us is people like you who stopped believing and went back home. People who thought the war was over and we had not chance, instead of realizing it was only one small battle that we lost.

OWS is about empowerment. It's about realize the huge power we have as a society. We CAN make a different. We WILL make a difference. We MUST make a difference.

Stop talking like a slave of the government saying we are trapped and cannot do a thing.

Start talking like a real occupier and start affecting change.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

OWS and further = all of Occupy - Has NOT failed. To the contrary OWS and all of Occupy are only at their very beginnings.

THIS is what you fail to understand (?) - and no change will not happen by getting everyone to walk away - it will happen only by getting everyone involved. Involved means working the system. Means OWNING the system.

Go pedal your fantasies somewhere else - as - I will never subscribe.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 2 months ago

the viability of an alternative voting option for the people instead of blind faith to the ballot box

is real

is already happening

the legitimacy of the old ballot box is what has become fantasy

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

sure... and the representative still is in position to pass and block legislation ... to continue to wreak havoc on us

Not if enough people disown the system. It's organic. Like ideas. People move from one idea to the next. Right now most people still believe in the system. If they didn't and really started organizing themselves differently, the system would become less and less useful and eventually abandoned.

You need action en mass of course. To reach a critical mass where enough people really want change.

That's the one thing that is common with any kind of real change we'll get. We first to have a critical mass of people who want the change.

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

Wow, that is a completely misunderstanding the problem. You need to change the system, not just change some actors.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 months ago

we all agree .. I think ? ... :)

but that will take time... in interim ... changing the actors will definitely help... no ?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22485) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Gotta change the actors to be able to change the system. It is the only starting place that I see that we have. ( see why I said it would be a mistake to let him "help" (?) out? )

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 2 months ago

Not really.