Forum Post: Riots, protests and attacks: What should be done?
Posted 11 years ago on Sept. 16, 2012, 1:06 p.m. EST by brightonsage
(4494)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Having given this whole issue some serious thought, it seems to me that everyone is trying to decide what to do about radical demonstrations and attacks on US Embassies and the suggestions are all over the map. We may have the expertise right here, among our posters, to deal with the problem.
The demonstrators are described as disorganized mobs not under the control of any government and possibly not under the control of any political party.
What does that sound like? Anarchists? Tea Partiers? Libertatians? Libertarian Socialists? Others?
Since we have had protests around the globe that have gotten "out of control" with property destruction by several of these groups, why don't we just ask them, what worked? How, or why, did the violence stop? What did the responsible governments do, if anything, that restored order?
We saw the Arab Spring happening, what should our next steps be, or have been?
Lets ask the GOP right wing, the OWS GA's, the Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan, others around the world. What should be the next steps in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Malaysia, Myanmar, etc.?
Is it bluster and tough talk, as some suggest? Killing demonstrators? Is it cutting off foreign aid? Is it sanctions? Is it patience? Have their issues begun in just the last 3 years, or 3 decades, or 3 centuries?
Identify your profile (that is what makes it meaningful) and tell us what to do.
To stop the violence in libya the bank of enland needs to return the gold nato took from the gold dinar of islam. Stealing all the gold from those north african countries western african, midleastern countries for the gold for oil program almost a year ago. All countries upraising against US embassies were countries who put gold into gold for oil that gaddafi in charge of. Stealing other countries wealth really pisses people off. Specially if it is your countries wealth. Also an apology from warmonger Hillary Clinton for carpet bombing and letting loose heavy armed people to kill 37,000 (irresponsible act) migrent workers and refuges some of which were escaping the konies terror 15 years ago. Racial killings happen even in libya. What you think? We are the only country that exploits migrent workers? Our leaders are crazy murderous people. If you pay taxes your only a unwilling partner in crime. Disagree? Look at Iran. If they don't want Iran to have nuclear warheads give them thorium reactors and limit them to thorium. Who holds the international patent for thorium reactors? The USA. So what is our solution to Iran from the start? Bomb Iran! Kill them all or ecomicaly choke them to death so the Iranian people upraise against their own overnment. This time the Iranian after being fooled twice. By England first and the USA second they aren't falling for it now. This is why other countries are supporting them now. Iran is fighting back by peacfully ignoring and resisting our attempts to crush them. So we started the warmongering again. Anyone notice China is theatening Japan lately? You really think it is over an island? or China is theatening Japan? China is really just playing there chess move to remind The USA not to start a war on two fronts. If we invade Iran, China will invade Japan. China has more to lose than the USA if iran gets attacked. Most of China's natural gas and oil supply comes from Iran. I am ashamed of being lead by such moronic tyrants and live in around nieve child like adults. Maybe the elites are right. We have been dumb and led around foolishly for their selfish gain for this long we are all useless to stop them. Protests in the USA was met with violence from the government. The people in charge are out of line everyone knows that now. They know it too. These leaders of ours look at life cheaply and will kill all of us in a heart beat to maintian control. They have always done this anyway. As far back as 4000BC. Different tools, but the same rules. You cant reason with tyrants and this why protests fail. I am sorry to break it too you, but your wasting your time. By the looks of it they will probabily start enslaving us and kill resisters one day not far off. They dismantled the country for a reason and bankupt it for a reason. They are phasing the 99% out. It is easy as that. Look around you. You can see that every where. In every corner of America. This is the elite's plan for us dumb animals as they so call us. Fight to take them out or they will take you out. They are going to enslave and kill us. NDAA. Dick Chainey's wet dream. I press this gun in my mouth to end the pain and never knowing the nightmare to come... Nazi America.
I must have struck a nerve?
I see you like to ask really difficult questions :)
What can we do? Well, maybe nothing. The recent wave of violence in the Middle East was related to the video on Muhammad, so over the course of the next month or two or three ... it will lose steam, people will refocus on stuff that actually impacts their lives directly, etc.
Taking the "sting" out of religion tends to take a very long time (it took Christians centuries, hopefully with the advent of the internet, it won't take the Islamic world quite as long).
Wellm maybe I just seem to notice the one's that are tough. Time is the only thing that works for sure, but it can take a lot of it. If you read the Q'ueran and the hadiths etc. (I have) you will get a pretty pessimistic view of the future because the prospect for coexistence of Muslims looks bleak. There are so many "death to's" etc. and, if non-Muslins are allowed to live, only then as second class citizens (no that would be the lowest class, since the various sects of Muslims have their own ideas of how to rank each other and they would all trump non-Muslims) paying tribute and having fewer rights.
Christians also have historical interpretations of the Bible that prescribe harsh treatment or "others" as well and with centuries most have rationalized their way around them. That said, I haven't heard from US Muslims who as a minority seem to integrate in communities without conflict. The test of any social or ethnic group is, what do they do when they are in the majority?
Do honor killings and vendettas get ignored by governments or prosecuted?
Honor killings were commonplace in Brazil (along with death squads and the like), Brazil is not a Muslim country. When Christians interpreted all the murderous and rather insane passages in the bible (particular the old testament) literally, there were inquisitions, burning humans alive, etc. Savagery doesn't discriminate. Here's an article you might be interested in:
http://en.avaaz.org/783/muslim-rage-protests-newsweek-salafists?utm_source=avaaz_newsletter&utm_medium=blast&utm_campaign=stop-the-clash
It is interesting but it doesn't address how Muslims put pressure on Muslims to fore go violence. When Christian fundamentalists get violent, the majority of Christians call them out, quote various scriptures, deplore what they are doing, boycott or use other economic pressure, stage counter demonstrations etc. and it is widely reported by the media.
Is it that I am unaware of the same thing happening in the Muslim world. Is it not being covered by the press?
Christians, at least by sect, are hierarchical, so church leadership exerting pressure has an effect. I am aware that Islam is anarchical rather than hierarchical, so there is no "chain of command" And it is obvious that there is an internal war of Muslims on Muslims, but the one thing they appear to agree on is that non Muslims are THE enemy.
Well, not what I'm reading in the news coverage. I see a tiny minority of extremists, a Muslim majority who IS speaking out against extremism, and there is a growing thirst for tolerance in the Muslim world (just read the article I linked to above). I mean, if you don't believe the article ... that's your prerogative of course, but it does cite specific facts.
As for me, I see little value in reactionary/emotive responses to these incidents (usually divorced from the facts, wrought with crude analysis, ignoring the complexities, all the competing factions involved, etc.). This is what keeps getting us into trouble, and sincere/good motives notwithstanding, we should at least try to resist the temptation of knee jerk reactionism.
Quote from your article, "Most insulted Muslims ignored the film or protested peacefully, but the Salafists, with their signature black flags, were leading instigators of the more aggressive protests that breached embassies."
"Like the far-right in the US or Europe, the Salafist strategy is to drag public opinion rightwards by seizing on opportunities to fan radical anger and demonise ideological opponents."
"A leading figure in Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood (the more powerful and popular political opponent of Egypt’s Salafists) wrote to the New York Times saying: "We do not hold the American government or its citizens responsible for acts of the few that abuse the laws protecting freedom of expression".
And the response to the Salifists from most Muslims was? Nowhere in the article do I see any condemnation of their violence by other Muslims. There is, of course the instruction in their literature to never say anything bad about other Muslims, regardless. That seems to be prevailing along with the restraint of the vast majority.
"every leader, Muslim and western, has condemned any violence that might be committed in response." I don't see the evidence of every Muslim leader condemning the violence, so the thirst for tolerance that you ascribe to the article is not sourced nor visible in the article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/22/libyan-protesters-militia-benghazi
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/21/benghazi-anti-militia-protest_n_1903846.html
http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/27/tunisias-president-on-the-anti-american-protests/
Also, I think the article I linked to previously "did" in fact discuss protests against extremism, but whatever the case, the Libyans have revolted against extremists (as shown by the first two articles).
We can do the same thing that stopped the nazi religion from killing Jews
We can do the same thing that stopped the catholic religion from the anti-muslim crusades
We can do the same thing that stopped the protestant religion from enslaving Africans.
any group of people
any leaders of people
who worship a book - CANNOT be stopped
God created man out of love
man created books out of ignorance.
not a solution - but an attempt at solution
we need PR - on TV & radio & print - explaining our freedom of speech
but keep in mind - "they" may not care because we are supposed to
live by "their" book
There is always one more book (the book of Mormon, Dianetics etc.) and plenty of people to misinterpret them, if necessary, to threaten and exploit others.
I love books and wouldn't want to censor any of them, "The fault dear Brutus is not in the stars but in ourselves, that we are underlings." Fewer worshipers and more books, may be the answer.
Please note - I do not blame the books!
I blame the people who USE them
Duly noted. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.
violence is bad in one of the way. So we need to stop violence overseas and let them try to solve their problems. violence as is the physicological instrument of the punishment. so every alive species understand such punishment on the reflex level and getting aware. government as big symbiosis organism receive violent behavior and preparing its feedback. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=u6KXgjLqSTg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Du6KXgjLqSTg
The issue is how can the violence be stopped? Is stopping it constructive in and of itself? What is the result of "punishing " adults?
i dont know. you tell me. Some psychological practice recommend to express the violence rather then to accumulate it inside. of course we dealing with substitutes.
I was asking for suggestions that had worked. Since I have not been involved in protests that turned violent, I have no experience, much less experiences in which something did work.
My profile?
Lets ask the GOP right wing (TP), the OWS GA's, the Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan, others around the world.
What is your applicable experience like those above who have been involved in violent protests who have been pacified?
The Muslims in Dearborn. I'm in awe of the thought processes laid out before me.
Or the non thought processes?
I'm not sure, I think that some fascinating neural activity must have preceded the origin of the phrase: "the GOP right wing (TP), the OWS GA's, the Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan, others around the world." It enigmatically hints at the world view of the author, that those are the three examples that they came up with. Just fascinating.
Simple memory exercise. Facinating.
[Removed]
Of course its Obama's fault
not the religious fanatics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cCnJsqHDuo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwCrzp_Mo2M
I work with an NYC OWS WG
and I am sick of our country and "their" country pushed around
by religious maniacs
I guess that would be called freedom?
Well, one thing you should probably not do is watch Fox for more than ten minutes... how much partying in the streets can one take?
And old clips, as many are.
Well, they look like they're having a good time - ammo is obviously very cheap over there.
It rains in 7.62 caliber over there.
Yea, I know... it looks like they're having a blast. Just some good ol' boys; I can relate.
Rainmakers are not so popular.
Probably not.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust...
[Removed]
The next step is to get our president to protect our Embassies. We have 4 people who died because Obama felt it would show a force of power if we had marines protecting the Embassies so he did not allow any to be in place especially in places of violence.
You forgot your profile. Which group were you protesting with that got settled down?
the were murderd.