Forum Post: Right-Wing Media's Own Legal Experts Undermine Campaign To Shred Due Process
Posted 11 years ago on April 28, 2013, 12:36 a.m. EST by GirlFriday
(17435)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Over the objections of their own legal experts, right-wing media continue to argue the alleged Boston bomber should be denied constitutional rights unlike the hundreds of terrorists before him who have been successfully tried and convicted.
Prominent right-wing media figures have advocated a wide range of unconstitutional treatment for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the 19-year-old U.S. citizen accused of complicity in the Boston marathon bombing and subsequent murder of a police officer. Echoing GOP politicians from Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC) to Rep. Michelle Bachman (R-MN), right-wing media have called for Tsarnaev to be denied the constitutional protections regularly given to domestic or foreign terrorists in this country, both before and after the September 11, 2001, attacks.
Fox News hosts have suggested using torture on Tsarnaev because not all American citizens are "worthy of the constitutional rights that we have." The Wall Street Journal joined the dangerous clamor (fueled by Graham and Bachman) to indefinitely detain Tsarnaev in military custody as an "enemy combatant." Conservative pundit Ann Coulter told Fox's Sean Hannity she wanted authorities to "shoot up the boat" when they found Tsarnaev unarmed and "get him an automatic death penalty there."
Read the rest here
And don't forget to sign the petition
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Paper cuts? Would be fitting.
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Well such things ( tragedies horrors insanity ) will occur. Better to use em to do some good, rather then let the insanity be used for further insanity. If we could get real aid out into the world - aid to build clean power infrastructure to support water purification and distribution and to build up clean transportation in support of farming and do other such things to improve the quality of life. PEOPLE MIGHT STOP ACTING MURDEROUS TO EACH-OTHER.
Hahaha. Paper terrorism. Ya, that's a Sovereign Citizen gig and I don't want anything to do with that.
But, I think that in many of our instances we should start looking at Crimes Against Humanity
Ya, ya, ya. I know. I know. I know.
BUT, I think we could make a case in several arenas. Not that anyone would hear the case. But, I think we could make it.
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Do you remember a couple of years ago, you were on the forum at the time, the guy that had filed a lawsuit (I think) with Google? He had a tried to acquire the best lawyer available and believed that most money spent=best attorney. He ran out of money. His case was/is online and you could see where he tried to navigate the system by himself and got shut down repeatedly. On top of this, they had this entire team of lawyers and they could drag this out for as long as they wanted to. I felt so bad for him.
So, as individuals trying to come up with the money to obtain an attorney is going to be impossible. So, asking people to figure out how to navigate the system when even simple procedures are misunderstood is almost self defeating and, ya, they have a never ending supply of attorneys.
I think that there has been/maybe now limitations on class action suits. These changes would be recent. Do you happen to know what they are?
Could you expand on this: against anyone who threatens our politicians
I have a couple of ideas that I am working in my head but I'm not sure how far it would go.
hey GF... yeah... I agree ... the legal process can & does get complicated... I'll try to dig into it a little when I can ... as far as " against anyone who threatens our politicians" ... well I was thinking that if we had a foundation or organization where an honest politician can get action against anyone who is threatening them with frivaless law suit or harm ... they might fight a little harder ... you would think that the government would provide that service ?
But, they do. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/us/mississippi-man-arrested-in-sending-of-letters-laced-with-ricin.html?_r=0
Our elected officials are not exactly victims. They have a serious entitlement issue. They have no problem with attending little junkets.
;) agreed.... ok... well how bout.... a foundation or organization where an honest citizen can get action against anyone who is bribing our politicians with money, power or donations... you would think that the government would provide that service ? .... ;)
Yes. The foundation for average citizen information and well being, on how to get back the republic via vote.
Instead of multimillionaires, it will be average joes.
I pledge 50 to you guys, if you put up a web page on this. Would it be tax deductible? Save me and more importantly everyone a few pennies, .... It's all debt, so it's created money.
It could discuss the impeachment issues, citizen veto.
Aren't air waves opening up soon?
Edit On second thought, put all us contributors "on the board" as co-founders
Chris Hayes is reporting MSNBC "All In With Chris Hayes" 4/29 the goons who voted against background checks, actually could have it held against them by voters next election, according to polls.
Washington State to Place backgrounds check State Initiative on ballot, with 250,000 signatures
Edit http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020888038_guninitiativexml.html
↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink [-] 1 points by gsw (2375) 2 minutes ago
As it is in the constitution,
http://www.pointoforder.com/category/constitutional-amendments/article-v-convention/
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No3_Rogersonline.pdf
the issue is greater than any one individual, and the corporate, private interests would have to be dealt with, via state petitions for convention geared towards predetermined issues, as discussed at the now infamous site, http://www.cusdi.org/index.html
But don't worry, chance of art v are remote. We're too lazy. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
They have only been trying since the 70s. The chance of art v are remote because people will see it for what it is, and, oddly enough.......it won't require multiple IDs or desperate attempts to control dialogue or directing people to a site where the people that own the site, the little corporate peeps are not listed.
Multiple IDs?
All here should be against multi IDs, as that is blatant coruption, lying, distortion and dishonesty, what OWS is not for, as stated in rules, and in spirit of protests for Justice.
I admonish all who have resorted to multi IDs to come clean, provide a valid reaison, and ask forgiveness, they violate our sense of trust, as it is in rules. I dislike two-timers
Good deflection
I shut you down on your Harvard Review link a month ago. There is nothing to deflect. I'm not interested in a bunch of right wing bullshit.
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Feel free to censor at will
I know you are not changing. Others can make own choice. It's not personal.
It's fucking personal.
Yep oh the formatting!
[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (14883) 45 minutes ago [-] 1 points by BradB (2063) from Washington, DC 1 day ago well ... agree... but the only thing that is keeping us from doing it is capital... I like many could give 100% time... if food & rent was on the table.... it takes work and for most of us work is also time .... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink That is where everyone is at. The vast majority of proposals that cross my screen are about reinventing the wheel. Otherways to go around it. Brad, I will never go along with an Article V convention. I tried to get into it about three weeks ago and I was extremely disappointed. I will never choose the 10th amendment over the ninth. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink [-] 1 points by gsw (2375) 17 minutes ago As it is in the constitution, http://www.pointoforder.com/category/constitutional-amendments/article-v-convention/ http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No3_Rogersonline.pdf the issue is greater than any one individual, and the corporate, private interests would have to be dealt with, via state petitions for convention geared towards predetermined issues, as discussed at the now infamous site, http://www.cusdi.org/index.html But don't worry, chance of art v are remote. We're too lazy.
Yep, what?
I, personally, am not interested in a foundation.
I know there are those that are interested in it.
ok... well how bout.... a government... where an honest citizen can get action against anyone who is bribing our politicians with money, power or donations... ;)
Why don't you just state your case?
ok...
we need to focus on.....
I've heard this before. Now what?
yes ... the never-ending question....
so maybe we need to reverse them....
start the bank first ...
pass a "People's Veto" Amendment
and those together will "get the money out of politics"
We can get money out of politics tomorrow if we don't support the corporations that give that money today.
[-] 1 points by BradB (2063) from Washington, DC 1 day ago
well ... agree... but the only thing that is keeping us from doing it is capital... I like many could give 100% time... if food & rent was on the table.... it takes work and for most of us work is also time .... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
That is where everyone is at.
The vast majority of proposals that cross my screen are about reinventing the wheel.
Otherways to go around it.
Brad, I will never go along with an Article V convention. I tried to get into it about three weeks ago and I was extremely disappointed.
I will never choose the 10th amendment over the ninth.
As it is in the constitution,
http://www.pointoforder.com/category/constitutional-amendments/article-v-convention/
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No3_Rogersonline.pdf
the issue is greater than any one individual, and the corporate, private interests would have to be dealt with, via state petitions for convention geared towards predetermined issues, as discussed at the now infamous site, http://www.cusdi.org/index.html
But don't worry, chance of art v are remote. We're too lazy.
Reorganization of the items is not inherently important at this point.
hmmm... ok what is importent at this point ?
[-] 1 points by BradB (2056) from Washington, DC 5 minutes ago
hmmm... ok what is importent at this point ? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
I'm telling you that as it stands currently placing them in a specific order is irrelevant.
well ... agree... but the only thing that is keeping us from doing it is capital... I like many could give 100% time... if food & rent was on the table.... it takes work and for most of us work is also time ....
Wash Rinse Repeat???
Yep.
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Why?
Primarily because before it gets to a corporation there is a process. These people drum up some convoluted crap and then kick it in. They have been known to put liens on property or vehicles and they firmly believe that government is illegitimate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_terrorism
http://www.tmcec.com/public/files/File/Course%20Materials/FY13/Clerks/Addison%20II/Turner%20-%20Sovereign%20Citizens%20-%20BINDER.pdf
I believe that paper terrorism targets the wrong people and, without intending to, legitimizes these freaks efforts. These people are off the beam and I refuse to do anything that might encourage them to continue. Frankly, they just suck.
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Perhaps I need to mull it over some more.
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Would work really well as a global action. Avazz?
I like Avazz. What I like about Zen's petition that I do not like about most is that he has references. Not so much on the Maddow one but, well, you know. Many petitions, currently, are based on emotional appeals and I am not fond of those.
Yes - I also like ZD's petition. Unfortunate though I think necessary - an appeal to emotion is necessary to get most peoples attention - to get people to even take a 1st look. But emotional appeal can not be the only content - there must be real information - let facts be the major bulk in any communication and in so doing promote more fact finding. Emotion alone is no good - emotion does not present reason for consistent support - facts do. But ya gotta get people to look at the facts.
Well, much of the subject matter is emotional enough as it is. The problem with the ongoing emotional appeal is emotional exhaustion. There are a great quantity of people who are done with the spin. I have found organizations that send out these petitions that I do support but I refuse to sign a damn thing because of the emotional appeal.
So, here are the ICC's list of Crimes Against Humanity What are crimes against humanity?
“Crimes against humanity” include any of the following acts committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:
murder;
extermination;
enslavement;
deportation or forcible transfer of population;
imprisonment;
torture;
rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
persecution against an identifiable group on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious or gender grounds;
enforced disappearance of persons;
the crime of apartheid;
other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering or serious bodily or mental injury.
Michigan could fit into a few of those.
In fact, there are many issues that might fit into those.
But, do we have any laws in the US that offer a remedy? Can we prove it? Civil court or criminal court? Of course, no class action suits in criminal court and preponderance of the evidence v beyond a shadow of a doubt. Will a settlement solve the problem or merely allow it to continue like SEC settlements? So what impact will it have in the future? What are we asking for specifically?
I am just thinking out loud.
Fracking = poisoning of ground water = Disease and Death visited on the general public - most especially the poor due in part to lack of affective recourse. Also could be considered an attack on indigenous populations such as American Indians etc.
Fossil fuel extraction - coal - oil - gas mountain top removal - drilling - etc. See Fracking above for more.
Note: Pollution - Air land water from these industries - are loosed on the general public ( poor - middle - wealthy ) - ultimately an attack on all life.
Covered under Chemical Warfare and possibly biological???
Making areas ( ultimately the whole earth ) uninhabitable due to pollution.
Then ( still thinking out loud ) what about death by food additives???
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How about fracking Florida?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/27/1205334/-FLORIDA-FRACKING-TERROR-NEIGHBORHOOD
I'll probably take some flack because it's the kos, but still........Facking Florida?
Don't they have enough issues with sink holes?
Yep - be careful where you place your bed - you may fall into a sink hole. Hmmm what kind of preparedness can one do for that? Other than move out of state.
Absolutely. I think it is referred to as - something like - Spongy Geologic Structure.
ALSO :
How easy to contaminate all of the ground water aqua-firs - when the geology is so porous and fragile?
Did you know that during a spring cold snap in Florida a few years ago, strawberry farmers pumped out the aquifer, to the point that over 100 sinkholes developed over a wide area and almost as many wells ran dry?
The underground viciousness of fracking could make things much worse and it's affects could be spread over a much larger area.
Absolutely - could make the gasland documentary trivial in comparison. Burning rivers from pollution. Remember those? What would an exploding pocket turning into a hole in the ground rather than sinking be like?
As much as I like to expose the reckless abandon of frackers, if that could happen, I hope we see something a little less damaging.
It just seems so stupid to frack under Florida.
Anywhere - but yeah -TRUTH.
I fully expect that they will also set off a fault line somewhere as well and cause a major seismic event.
God - please keep them away from damaging the Yellowstone caldera.
Still thinking out loud :
Does anyone die of "natural" causes anymore?
I mean old age and the body shutting down "due to age" was ( is ? ) considered a natural cause.
But it seems that instead of that happening ( organ failure due to age) - that if you live long enough now -that you will die from your body succumbing to one form or another of cancer. Incidence of cancer is rising astronomically in all age groups. Due to all of the pollution/poisons in our environment. Pollution/Poison injected into the environment by industry. As well as added to the food supply by the same sources - some of which is done purposely in the form of additives - additives to livestock as well as to processed foods.
Americans eat far more crap than Europeans do
That, combined with the fact that most of those countries have universal healthcare accounts for their longer life-spans....almost 3 years longer in Sweden
http://www.shape.com/blogs/shape-your-life/13-banned-foods-still-allowed-us
~Odin~
Yes - a healthy body needs healthy food.
This goes for the body of society as much as for the individual human body.
Agreed, there is no telling how much those additives affect our mental well being
It was my kids who taught me the importance of eating healthy
My basic rule of thumb is, I eat healthy at home, and the very few times I go out to eat, I don't worry about it
~Odin~
[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2219) from Island Heights, NJ 1 day ago
You mean the food desserts in cities, where there is little choice/chance in finding fresh foods? It could well be intentional
~Odin~ ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Having it available does not mean that it is affordable. The price of fresh produce is quite expensive.
Yep - eating out - a definite luxury - so - basically a rare event for any who are needing to be smart with their money.
Note : The rise of the dollar menu at junk food ummm fast food (?) places.
The rare times i eat at those "junk food"places, I feel like shit afterward
~Odin~
Proof of the process.
Unfortunately, there are those people who do not have the luxury of those choices. Has this been done intentionally?
You mean the food desserts in cities, where there is little choice/chance in finding fresh foods? It could well be intentional
~Odin~
Note: Pollution - Air land water from these industries - are loosed on the general public ( poor - middle - wealthy ) - ultimately an attack on all life.
Covered under Chemical Warfare and possibly biological???
Who knew what, what did they know and when did they know it? Can you prove that it is intentional?
I'll either post tonight or tomorrow.
One article of interest:
Food Additives - The Pew Charitable Trusts - Non Profit ... www.pewtrusts.org/our_work_detail.aspx?id=1203
The food additives project evaluates the strengths and weaknesses of the current U.S. federal regulatory system by ... Health; Biomedical Research; Food Safety. Food ...
Ok, tell me what you think.
http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/hatecrimes.html
^^^
Stats for deaths for 2010 as homeless.
A few stats on elderly homeless. http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Elderly.pdf
Is there not a political war being waged on these people? Are the moves that are made designed to kill a population without directly killing them? Further, are there not attempts to increase that population? That's why I mention Michigan. Since they have people that are closely watching every move.
I asked this last year or more, when do we begin to call these actions some type of genocide?
Democide.
A term, I believe that is currently in flux, 'expanding' due to the ever increasing means by which to kill off certain groups of populations.
"Democide can also include deaths arising from "intentionally or knowingly reckless and depraved disregard for life"; this brings into account many deaths arising through various neglects and abuses, such as forced mass starvation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
Domocide it is.
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I will have to digest this for awhile to address it fully and properly. As YES there is a very real and palpable evil in such things - and the poor and the elderly are victims throughout time. Is it calculated evil??? Quite Often YES !!! Look at the austerity measures that are being taken - they ( measures taken ) are throwing people out into the street and are removing any kind of aid - food clothing medical shelter. What else can it be called - Other Than Murder???
FURTHER:
For aid to be publicly withdrawn puts out a message. An unspoken - but - clearly implied message.
The poor and the elderly are fair game for attack. So you of violent nature you just go ahead and have at em - and you of non-violent nature look the other way.
ANOTHER MESSAGE IMPLIED: Those of you that We ( society ) have abandoned. Do what you need to do to survive - crime of one sort or another - as living off the land is basically prohibited. (so feeding violence on the streets )
So - Consider:
Those in office who are attacking the social safety net of established protection programs for the elderly and the disabled and the poor. ARE ACTIVELY EVIL - MURDERERS. This for government direct actions in a campaign ( undeclared ) of genocide (?) - mass murder.
Then there is the attack on society feeding the evil that is employed by business - off shoring jobs ( removing domestic employment opportunities ) to sweat/slave shops. Also taking revenue out of the domestic economy further stressing the public's ( st )ability to maintain services and infrastructure. Not paying a living wage to all employees/workers ( again government is complicit here as well for allowing and even incentivising ). This does not get into the poisoning of the population or planet - causing disease and death by unclean practices/processes. Then there is the rampant crime of wallstreet and the financial sector - also killing victims. Yes this is all calculated all deliberate.
Very well said, 'DKA'. Intentional indeed!
Democide by 'Government & .01% Elite Cartel'. Devoid of hearts.
"Democide can also include deaths arising from "intentionally or knowingly reckless and depraved disregard for life"; this brings into account many deaths arising through various neglects and abuses, such as forced mass starvation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
Had ta tweet that one:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/right-wing-medias-own-legal-experts-undermine-camp/#comment-965697 CONSIDER - what constitutes genocide - or mass murder? Pls Share/Circulate.
You're an angel!
Well - Thank You Very Much. But I have a hard time trying to walk on water ( it has to be frozen-hard-frozen and be sufficiently thick ). {:-])
Yes, DKA. I've been trying to resist 'sugar', but alas, it is rather...addicting. ~.^
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (24626) from Coon Rapids, MN 22 minutes ago
LOL - heavy amounts of sugar will do that.
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[-] 1 points by Renneye (2326) 42 minutes ago
Yes, DKA. I've been trying to resist 'sugar', but alas, it is rather...addicting. ~.^
Tough position to be in - especially when you start out naturally sweet to begin with. {:-]) I myself am in no danger of dissolving in the rain. So remember to be careful to avoid the synthetic stuff as well - just as harmful in someways and can be worse in other ways.
OH
And carry an umbrella!
Duh!! That's what wings are for. (Arrrgh!! Alright...I'm making myself puke here, lol!)
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (24616) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 minute ago
Well - Thank You Very Much. But I have a hard time trying to walk on water ( it has to be frozen-hard-frozen and be sufficiently thick ). {:-])
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LOL - heavy amounts of sugar will do that.
Very Good. Now we need to continue to educate the rest of the public.
I think I'll resurrect an old thread of mine...
"Democide: When Your Government Kills You"
http://occupywallst.org/forum/democide-when-your-government-kills-you/
Maybe copy over some of the conversation presented here?
It's coldly calculating.
http://www.multifamilyexecutive.com/rent-trends/push-pull.aspx
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-18/rent-gains-trail-as-blackstone-crowds-u-s-with-homes.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505146_162-57564374/u.s-ceos-push-plan-to-raise-full-retirement-age-to-70/
http://www.aarp.org/work/job-hunting/info-11-2010/older_workers_the_new_unemployables.html
If you force them to live on the streets then you increase the odds of them dying in the streets. You can't tell me that didn't just send them out to be slaughtered one way or the other.
Then you don't need to worry about any health problems because their dead. You don't have to worry about social security because they die before they can acquire it and if they can then they can't afford a place to live and still live in the streets.
It all goes back to being dead.
Lots o' lawsuits in Crestwood and a few criminal charges. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/04/29/crestwood-water-official-guilty-of-lying-to-investigators/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-crestwood-water-trial-20130429,0,7425197.story
Sure the people weren't given a death sentence?
Yes - but - I am sure many of those Greedy Calculating Killers have orgasms thinking about their plans.
I'm sure. The problem is that this is a reoccurring pattern. I think people who utilize the statistics and information from places like Heritage Foundation need to be shown for what they are: murderers.
The blinders must come off.
Got to admit the Greedy Murdering Assholes seem to be doing their level best to OUT themselves.
One example:
Food dye's for instance - can be carcinogenic - but allowed in approved quantities. ( studies have been done and the FDA questioned about why they are not banned ) Also thought linked to autism and adhd.
Another:
Steroids - known to cause cancer as well as other health problems. ALSO allowed to be added to our live stock to help em grow and get fat fast = ends up continuing the process in those who eat it. ( studies have been done and the FDA questioned about why they are not banned )
Another:
Anti-biotic - used in growing food as well as in raising livestock = proliferation of anti-biotic resistant bacteria/diseases. ( studies have been done and the FDA questioned about why they are not banned )
Another:
Artificial sweeteners as well as corn fructose = health problems and death. ( studies have been done and the FDA questioned about why they are not banned ) obesity and diabetes as well as cancers and other problems.
BTW - some of the testing has been done by the FDA itself as well as other independent labs.
Okay, now what is the solution?
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Good thing it can be tweeted - Hey?
DKAtoday @DKAtoday
The Case To Impeach: Senators John McCain (R-Ariz.), Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) and R http://signon.org/s/2Ty8dd @signon Expand