Forum Post: Richmond Tea Party Sues to Recover $10,000 in permit fees not charged to Occupy
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 29, 2011, 10:45 a.m. EST by MikeyD
(581)
from Alameda, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Richmond, Va. — The Richmond tea party is demanding a refund of about $10,000 from the city, claiming it unfairly charged them for rallies while allowing the Occupy protesters to use the same space for several weeks for free.
The political organization is sending the city an invoice for the charges incurred for three rallies held in Kanawha Plaza over the past three years. The Occupy protesters have been camped in the plaza since Oct. 15.
Richmond Tea Party spokeswoman Colleen Owens says it's not fair that her group had to pay fees for permits, portable toilets, police presence and emergency personnel. The group also had to purchase a $1 million insurance policy.
Tea party groups across the nation have raised similar concerns since the protests spread from New York earlier this month.
Oh yah! The standard has been set! Permits and associated permit fees no longer required in America!
Basically, the Tea Party paid for the privilege of not getting arrested.
winner
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Misdemeanors? Criminal? Like you never drive over the speed limit?
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You're witty reparte is the stuff of legends.
By design, OWS is an act of civil disobedience. Gaining "legitimacy" by paying for permits would be tantamount to accepting the status quo.
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Yeah. And confirm your stereotype. That's a good plan.
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You have no subtlety.
If violence becomes part of the milieu, then the message is immediately lost. It isn't about having it both ways. It's about making sure the right things are not only expressed, but heard in a way that doesn't close minds.
It doesn't even have to convince everybody. You seem to have your position already hardened into something inflexible. You're not even a factor, if this is the case. The ones most likely to illicit change are those that intuitively understand that something isn't right with the status quo and can find empowerment in the message. These are precisely the ones that would be put off by overt violence
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"The only power the government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one MAKES them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of lawbreakers - and then you cash in on guilt."
Ayn Rand
Atlas Shrugged
When laws are used to suppress dissent then breaking them while dissenting is irrelevant.
Wow, that quote was from Atlas Shrugged? Maybe I should stop completely discounting Ayn Rand.
I had to read both Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead in college but it was a dreary task. I barely remember either book.
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No, they acted as civil humans.
The Founding Father's were so civil that they went to war.
Civility is one of those things that get molded to suit the predilections of the one invoking it. Is corporate welfare civil?
pay the fee and the cops protect your corporate backed "political rally" ,.
protest democraticly under 1st amendment protection and the cops attack you see the difference?
Actually, the First Ammendment is the right to assemble PEACEABLY. And treason, which OWS is demonstrating by advocating violence to get what they want according to the latest poles, isn't protected under the freedom of speech. And redress of grievances is to be done by, you know, LEGAL means.
How is OWS not peaceful? "treason", "advocating violence" what news are you watching?
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No the tea party was and is funded by corporate money. Koch industries to name one.
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ad hominem attacks are weak minded.
"Adbusters is a not-for-profit, reader-supported, 120,000-circulation magazine concerned about the erosion of our physical and cultural environments by commercial forces." from the web site,. don't sound like a corporation at all. And all they did was create the original psa ad calling for the occupation,. no financial support from that non-profit anti-corporate magazine.
"You should try looking at the message instead of bullshit distractions." you contradict yourself,. . with your "billionaire George Soros" line of BS. in the same post even. lol.
"You are exemplary of how the 1% controls people." ok,. that makes no logical sense at all,. cussing and name calling is all you got.
It's spelled "minded".
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dude,. yelling does not make you right.
"Ad busters is a not for profit..... what." Organisation opposed to corporate greed and misdeeds. does that help you.,
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I am not British,. I have lived in america all my life, never been over the pond. where do you get your ideas? that you then spout off as factual.
Go argue with a dictionary if you are only concerned with semantics. not-for-profit what do you not understand about that,. .
"subvert the American political process. To what end?" Wow, you are paranoid to boot. and still making zero logical points and just name calling. when will you tire of making yourself look silly in public?
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MikeyD is a Troll
All corps have a nation corp tax id number. if you want to prove your point that Adbusters is a corp all you have to do is supply us with that number...
The occupiers are risking arrest and jail time, the teabaggers are not.
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How is it unequal application of the law? The occupiers are breaking the law and many are being arrested and charged. What part of that do you not understand?
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And what permits are needed in order to protest? The teabaggers were holding a rally, that's a lot different to a protest. Also the Tea Party is an official organization, the occupations are not. Permits are not needed by individuals to attend a protest.
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They are not semantic differences, IT'S THE LAW.
The Tea Party has an official membership, making it an official organization. It took me all of five minutes to find this out on their website.
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Do you want TeaParty.org?
http://www.teaparty.org/
Tea Party "Command Center"?
http://teapartyorg.ning.com/
Tea Party Patriots?
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/
Seriously, have you never heard of Google? Or are you just that stupid and lazy?
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I imagine the official website is the one listing membership numbers for different states. Anyway, I really can't be bothered discussing the Tea Party anymore. Hopefully you can find someone else to chat to who isn't a troll.
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They paid $10k for permits? No wonder there were no police crackdowns, the $10k was their bribe to be left alone. Besides what kind of protest is it when you kick up any amount of money to the entity you are protesting?
You don't have to pay for a permit to protest - ITS OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PROTEST OUR GOVERNMENT!!! This country was founded on the principals of protest. Permits are just one of 1000's of ways our government subverts the constitution that they are sworn to uphold.
This is one fight I hope the Tea party wins, our government needs to be taught a lesson about upholding our constitutional rights. The only way to make them listen is to hit them where it hurts - their departmental budgets.
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I'm sure the Koch brothers funneled the 10K to the Teabaggs - now they want it back?! Like they don't have enough money?
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The trolls are fast on here.
I hope you're paid per word, kid.
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I just can't imagine that a human being would be motivated by anything other than cash to spend so much time spewing rubbish. Your posts on this page alone must've taken hours!
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OK happy trolling MikeyD. I do give you props for your colorful language and demeanor.
We're in this shit together bro. Whether we like it or not. I'll see you on the front lines.
That just goes to show you what a bunch of bozos the tea party really is. They pay the fees cause they were billed, They payed the fees because they agree with governments position of charging people for their rights. They payed the fees cause they lacked the backbone to stand up for themselves as a group of We the People. Now they will sue, HA Tea Party, you started out so strong then went to the crapper....
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Also, didn't the Tea Party sign an agreement at the time?
And did they not get what they paid for?
The TEA PARTY's three days have EXPIRED. : )
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I didn't say that the Tea Party can't Lawyer UP, they certainly can, Lawyers need jobs too.
Yeah, use the discrimination idea and good luck in court. It's why they're there to sort out this mess that the TEA PARTY got themselves into.
OWS decided on another path. Sounds like they got a better deal. If you don't like it encourage your local TEA PARTY chapter to take them to court as well.
Good Luck on ALL your cases. : )
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Charging fees for your first amendment right is illegal. Their are a lot of laws that violate the first amendment.
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They should only be charged for private space.
That is the problem with the tea party. Take a few lessons from the brits and the greeks. They know how to protest.
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Well, it looks like the Tea Party may have gotten their wish, if this is what they were wishing for:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/31/police-use-bulldozers-to-break-up-occupy-richmond/
And according to the OWSer quoted there, the dirty criminal hippies actually DID apply for a permit and the city ignored them.
So, if that's true, maybe OWS is the group with the actionable complaint of discriminatory denial of a permit based on the content of their political speech & assembly.
Call the ACLU, Richmond Occupiers!
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Fuck the tea party.
A meditation for those who tut-tut about "lawbreakers" and civil disobedience:
Dare to do things worthy of imprisonment if you mean to be of consequence. ~Juvenal
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one. ~Chinese Proverb
No radical change on the plane of history is possible without crime. ~Hermann Keyserling
When leaders act contrary to conscience, we must act contrary to leaders. ~Veterans Fast for Life
It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. ~Voltaire
Human history begins with man's act of disobedience which is at the very same time the beginning of his freedom and development of his reason. ~Erich Fromm, Psychoanalysis and Religion
Laws are only words written on paper, words that change on society's whim and are interpreted differently daily by politicians, lawyers, judges, and policemen. Anyone who believes that all laws should always be obeyed would have made a fine slave catcher. Anyone who believes that all laws are applied equally, despite race, religion, or economic status, is a fool. ~John J. Miller, And Hope to Die
Integrity has no need of rules. ~Albert Camus
It seems to correlate best to the practice of a poll tax which was prohibited. Voting is essentially a form of expressing ones opinion about who will serve in government and restricting that form of expression with a fee was a way to inhibit the poor from participating and the groups who make up the larger percentage of the ranks of the poor. It seems to me that the laws requiring photo I'd are also a new form of poll tax since state IDs cost money.
Peaceful assembly and protest are as important--or more important--to the structure and function of government as voting, which was why it was put first in the constitution.
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corporate protests should pay,. . that is the system the worship.
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what? that string of word has no meaning,.
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I wonder if they already paid all this money. If so, I think they are SOL.
Did they not get what they paid for?
Was it not the deal at time which they likely signed to, and agreed?
I think the TEA PARTY's three days have EXPIRED. : )
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Yes they will. Good Luck with that..... : )
How we're gonna pay?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJLNSzui-WE
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Well, they shouldn't have been such sheep.
A protest is a protest but they want to call theirs "rallies" so they can seem like little suckups. Either you're a rebel or a suck-up.
Suck-ups pay for permits, rebels don't.
In all seriousness though, "public" property is supposed to be "public" and permitting is just an arbitrary limitation on free speech. Whatever courts upheld these "permits for political assemby" laws are traitors & shredders of the constitution.
It was all part of the culture war of the 70s & 80s in which the repressive forces swore they'd never allow the social change of the 60s to ever happen again.
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I'd say the political groups have a better leg to stand on, but really, IMO public does mean public. There shouldn't be limits that prevent equal use of public property. In some places, permits aren't cheap and that's wrong.
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Well, some people actually choose to do that, but there's a lot more risk involved in getting arrested for what you're proposing in your example than there is in getting arrested for assembling for political purposes.
But in either case, actually doing the act you're protesting gives you an opportunity to go to court and "protest" the existing law.
I'm not a lawyer but you don't you need "standing" to bring a case involving a constitutional right? In other words, you already have to be negatively impacted by the existing law? I'm not certain you can just go file papers on any matter you feel is unjust but I could be wrong.
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Good, I hope they get every penny back, plus interest. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
well, i guess I can't have it both ways. I want to, and Ive been sitting here trying to think of why we're more right in our protest and shouldn't be charged, and why they are wrong and should be charged, and realizing that is not only hypocritical its fascist. So Im still on track, down with bribing corporations and the corrupt politicians they buy to do them favors, and up with the little guys. Only ALL little guys, and Im going to have to mean ALL even if its going to take me some work to get there.
We published books about the corruption on Wall ST. and why people are protesting this situation...titled: "MELTDOWN: Scam vs. Scam" -- ...and another book: "A SCHOOL IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE."
They are on Amazon.com -- or people can contact us for big discounts so that you can offer it to raise funds.
Why has it become so easy to co-opt history? The factual line of this post aligned established terms/permits. And you redirect toward Corp. welfare?
Hell yeah! Go Tea Party!
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I have worked for city government in the past. Fees are not a bribe or meant to oppress. Fees pay the people who take care of the property, pay for the water or fertilizer or mowers to take care of the greenery in the parks, to pay for those who cart the trash away at the end of the day, to pay for the schedulers who make sure events don't overlap, to pay for the lights and the electricity so that the public places can be used at night, to pay for the parking lots, to pay for the signs, to pay for the picnic tables and benches, to pay for trees, to pay...you get my drift? There is not an agenda to keep people out, there is an across the board fee schedule, same for everyone, to help take care of the property.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wah, Wah, Wah, Cry me a River
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Anytime, this can be enjoyed by the whole OWS crowd as the TEA PARTY makes their MIGHTY stand. It's like entertainment news.
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