Forum Post: Rich pay higher taxes question.
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 19, 2011, 9:59 p.m. EST by DunkiDonut2
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
You dont know the answer to this question, you will have to guess.
Which would be better. 1) The rich paying the fair share in taxes. Allow the government to waste it on failed programs. Dont donate one penny to anything. 2) Rich donate huge sums of money that far exceeds what they would owe in taxes to established programs in community after community with proven track records of success and very happy users of the programs, (children centers in hospitals, schools, Boys and Girls Clubs, Senior Citizen Centers, ect) and pay income taxes which is what they are doing now. Remember, they pay much more than required, even by your standards. 3) If you pick 1 You must pay your fair share in taxes too. 4) If you dont pay income taxes you need to shut your lazy mouth.
Pick one. Dont comment, turn the comments around. Just answer. You will pick 1 and 2. You wont pick 3. You will not agree to 4.
I reject the nature of the scenario you're describing here. First of all, the number of superrich out there who I could actually see putting that kind of money and investment into communities are a very small subset of the demographic, and the rest either have it in the markets, give it to "charities" that are incredibly inefficient and/or put far more money into promoting their sponsors than into socially beneficial programs to beat the taxman, or are hiding it offshore. At that point even if the government "wastes" it on programs for the poor that are insufficient to fix things it's still being far better allocated.
The problem isn't specifically that government is spending too much; it's that we're seeing so little return on what we're spending. The current system has Uncle Sam shelling out tons of money in subsidies and tax breaks and lucrative contracts and then getting so little in return that taxpayers like you start getting pissed off and demanding there be an accounting for your money. Then once you get that account you see the amount of it that gets lost to inefficiencies in the system you just want to walk away from the feds altogether.
If we start taking a look at our defense budget for real we'll probably find all sorts of contracts that are late and over budget, or simply more expensive than training and maintaining your own people. If you look at the Lockheed Martin fighter jet flap it probably would have been cheaper to train a team of engineers and build the prototyping equipment they'd need. If we take government-subsidized private firms and consolidating those operations in-house, we have a start right there; if we stop giving crazy tax breaks for companies doing R&D and moved those operations back in-house the cost of funding the labs and paying the people would probably be less than the lost revenue. The same goes for mercenary firms like Blackwater; we already have trained, disciplined soldiers capable of providing security; why should we pay a private firm to provide less qualified people at a net loss to the taxpayer?
Slow down and actually take a look at whether or not we actually need to be handing out 90% of farm subsidies; ten to one we're subsidizing agribusiness conglomerates who really don't need it. Rather than directly paying subsidies we should encourage the breakup of large corporations like Monsanto (and a consequent revision of IP and patent law to put an end to the seed patenting game) and buy up surpluses from small farmers to store in a national food bank for use in natural disasters like Hurricane Katrina. As a rule, paying a private company to provide a service is more expensive than providing it oneself. The same goes to private insurance companies; what you have right now is runaway inflation of health insurance costs because nobody's challenging companies for jacking up the market. I do believe that a public option would be able to provide satisfactory care levels at affordable rates and still turn a tidy profit for the taxpayers.
Finally, if we want to avoid further asset bubbles of the sort that caused the 2008 collapse we need to restore Glass-Steagall and really begin regulating Wall Street. Part of that regulation will be enforcing real penalties for violations, including fines of hundreds of millions of dollars. Those fines will provide the government yet another source of income beside our taxes, and thus mean that the government will be able to do more with less of our money. In sum, a strong government does not have to be bloated and inefficient, and if we give Uncle Sam a less anemic revenue stream and allow him to do certain things for himself instead of relying on corporate contracts you'd be surprised at the results you get.
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Government is for the rich, make them pay for it.
"DunkiDonut2" = long-outed T R O L L
To understand WHAT MAKES A TROLL TICK - AND have a chuckle while you're at it - go to:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-trolls-think-trollosophy-exposed/
wow, Pepper Spray is a food additiive.. lmao
I see the word TROLL typed MANY times on this site. I see it used over and over again. This would suggest that there are those that are not in agreement with OWS and are not 1%. There are so many posts using the word TROLL that one must wonder if there are far more trolls than believers. You have even taken the time to post "something" about trolls which once agains suggests the number of trolls bothers you greatly.
I believe that the trolls on here are posting in order to distract, alienate, and ultimately waste the time of everyone else on this forum. Unfortunately, there isn't much that can be done about the trolls short of heavy moderation, which this board clearly does not have.
Trolls make these posts on purpose because they feed off of response. The trolls' language is carefully chosen so that the most people will be compelled to respond. They are trying to create tension, eventually to the point where the people who really care about this movement either leave the boards or leave the movement entirely.
There is a possibility of some sort of concerted effort to dismantle the movement. We would be kidding ourselves to think that there are no entities that would want OWS to fade away. However, I don't think that there is any ulterior motive to these trolls. Most trolls that I run into thrive on the argument. They love confrontation, no matter what it is about or how inane their views are. Its entertainment, and by responding to trolls you are only increasing that person's pleasure.
When helping out with a protest movement against Scientology abuses, the same types of trolls appeared there. I saw a lot of people turned away from that movement thanks to some persistent trolling. I have seen the same types of trolling play out on forum-after-forum, and I don't want to see the same thing turn more people away from this movement.
Instead of responding to trolls, do something productive to help the movement:
Post links to pages that you find important on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Let your friends and family know that you support Occupy. I know whenever I post something about an instance of police abuse against a peaceful protestor, that it gets re-shared immediately.
Take that long 3-page-long post that are about to post here, and send it to your local newspaper as a letter to the editor or opinion piece instead. You have a higher chance of your point being made in front of many more sets of eyes than on this forum, and this will show people who aren't following the movement 24/7 that a) we're still here and b) we have valid viewpoints.
Heck, take the highlights of what you want to say, and make a flyer out of it! There are plenty of programs on all of the major OS's that will allow you to create nice-looking flyers. Adobe Photoshop is the industry standard, but GIMP is a great free alternative that will provide you with the tools that you need.
Gimp - http://www.gimp.org/
Tutorials - http://www.tech-faq.com/make-a-flyer.html http://vimeo.com/23992721
Distribute flyers about the movement or your local Occupy in your town. Look around at the local businesses. Some will have community boards where you can put up your flyers. If you are flyering outside on buildings or other structures, you will need some thick tape. I recommend some clear packing tape, 2-3 inches wide. Tape all the way down on each side so that your flyer doesn't get easily torn down by the wind or by someone else. Look at the way that other flyers are posted in your town and try to make yours stand out in a similar fashion.
Build an Occupy blog or "fan site." Everyone has their own views on the movement, and getting yours out there on a dedicated site brings more attention to the overall movement. Wordpress and other blogging sites make it incredibly easy to build your own blogs.
Wordpress - http://wordpress.com/
Participate in a working group. Chances are that your local Occupy group needs more help. There are things for everyone to do both on and offline. Go find your local group and see where more hands are needed.
Participate in the 99percentdeclaration or other political groups. For those of you that are complaining about the movement's activity on the political front, did you know that there are numerous petitions, websites, and projects in the works right now to push for political change according to our common demands? Personally, I am going to help out with the 99percentdeclaration, but there are other movements as well like Free Elect and quite a few calls for Constitutional Amendments, Article V conventions, etc. Sign some of the petitions that you agree with, or donate to one of these causes and help make the National General Assembly or other political actions a reality.
99percentdeclaration - https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration Americans Elect - http://www.americanselect.org/
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/index.php
Is there anything else productive that people could be doing right now to help Occupy instead of responding to trolls? Post your ideas below.
TROLL B.S. never fails to put me to sleep... YAAAAAWN!!!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
(Note: TIOUAISE has just conked out.)
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Why do you need my taxes?
As of this moment only one person picked a number. What is complicated about asking this question?
I could care less. I dont envy people or how much they make. Seems sad to just sit around and envy what others have. SAD.