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Forum Post: Revealed : "How Bill Kristol Purged the Arabists", by Patrick J. Buchanan.

Posted 2 years ago on May 30, 2012, 12:20 p.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"How Bill Kristol Purged the Arabists",

by Patrick J. Buchanan.

After taping John Stossel’s show on March 16 in New York, the Mrs. and I took the 10 a.m. Acela back to Washington. Once we had boarded the train, who should come waddling up the aisle but Bill Kristol.

The Weekly Standard editor seemed cheerful, and we chatted about the surge in Mitt Romney’s popularity and prospects.

I did not ask what he had been doing in New York, but thanks to the website Mondoweiss, I found out. Kristol was there for a March 16 “debate” with Jeremy Ben-Ami of J Street, the pro-Israel organization, at B’nai Jeshurun synagogue on the Upper West Side.

After listening to Kristol, writes Phil Weiss, “I am still reeling.”

“Kristol was treated like royalty and came off as … a Republican Party warlord,” bragging “about how all the hostile elements to Israel inside the Republican Party were purged over the last 30 years — (and) no one (now) dared to question the power of the Israeli lobby.”

“The big story in the Republican Party over the last 30 years, and I’m very happy about this,” said Kristol, is the “eclipsing” of the George H.W. Bush-James Baker-Brent Scowcroft realists, “an Arabist old-fashioned Republican Party … very concerned about relations with Arab states that were not friendly with Israel … .”

That Bush crowd is yesterday, said Kristol. And not only had the “Arabists” like President Bush been shoved aside by the neocons, the “Pat Buchanan/Ron Paul type” of Republican has been purged.

“At B’nai Jeshurun,” writes Weiss, “Kristol admitted to playing a role in expelling members of the Republican Party he does not agree with.” These are Republicans you had to “repudiate,” said Kristol, people “of whom I disapprove so much that I won’t appear with them.”

“I’ve encouraged that they be expelled or not welcomed into the Republican Party. I’d be happy if Ron Paul left. I was very happy when Pat Buchanan was allowed — really encouraged … by George Bush … to go off and run as a third-party candidate.”

Kristol’s point: Refuse to toe the neo-con line on Israel, and you have no future in the Republican Party.

Ben Ami seemed equally exultant: “We’ve won the war; we won the war,” he told the audience. Ninety-nine percent of Congress now votes almost 100 percent pro-Israel.

But Ben Ami appeared nervous about how this unanimity in the Congress behind Israel had been achieved:

“I very seriously and absolutely do believe that a significant percentage of American members of the House of Representatives and the Senate are intimidated on this issue (of Israel). … They worry about the ramifications of speaking out. … They are worried about the attacks that they will receive.”

Ben Ami said the 50 members who have criticized Israel are courageous, but, “Another 200 are scared to do it.” Haaretz.com reports Ben Ami as saying congressmen “live in fear” of the Israeli lobby.

Kristol laughed at this and dared Ben Ami to name them.

When Ben Ami brought up the destruction of Palestinian rights on the West Bank and said Hillary Clinton repeatedly raises this issue with Israel, writes Weiss, “Kristol sniggered.”

It’s a “myth,” said Kristol, that Arabs care about Palestinians. The Israeli occupation on the West Bank can last for 45 or 60 years more. Bill Kristol on Palestinian rights sounds like Bull Connor talking about Negro rights in Birmingham in 1965.

Another source says Kristol predicted that Sen. Joe Lieberman, whose voting record is closer to Socialist Bernie Sanders’ than to conservative Jim DeMint’s, will be secretary of state in the Romney administration.

A former head of the Israel lobby AIPAC describes Lieberman as “the No. 1 pro-Israel advocate and leader in the Congress.”

Joe led the cheers for our last three Middle East wars — and has pushed for two more, against Syria and Iran.

About Kristol’s comments, a point of personal privilege.

George W. Bush never “encouraged” me to go third party. At the Iowa straw poll in 1999, he asked me to stay in the party, and party chair Jim Nicholson came to my home to make the same request.

At the synagogue, Kristol was never asked about his role in the Iraq War that he and his collaborators pressured Bush to wage as “Israel’s fight against terrorism is our fight.”

Some 4,500 Americans died in that war, 35,000 were wounded, and 100,000 Iraqis perished, leaving half a million widows and orphans.

Result: U.S. influence in the Middle East is at a nadir. Al-Qaida has spread into Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Syria and North Africa.

Now the neocons are worming their way into the Romney camp, dropping us hints on whether John Bolton or Joe Lieberman will be the next secretary of state.

Has Gov. Romney imbibed the Kristol Kool-Aid that caused the war and cost the party Congress in 2006 and the presidency in 2008?

Hard to believe, but we should find out before November.

~

fiat lux ...

~

Patrick Buchanan has been a senior advisor to three Presidents, a two-time candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, and was the presidential nominee of the Reform Party in 2000.

[Article copied verbatim under "Fair Use" from : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31445.htm and please refer here to access the extensive number of embedded links.]

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167 Comments


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[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21339) 5 months ago

Kudos to John Kerry for his comments about Israel this week. He said:

"Israel risks becoming apartheid state if peace talks fail."

Though the Democrat was forced to retract it, he did say it, and obviously thinks it. And, oh yeah, he's the Secretary of State.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/29/politics/kerry-apartheid-controversy/

The Guardian says that "It is believed to be the first time a US official of Kerry's standing has used the term 'apartheid' in the context of Israel."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/israel-apartheid-state-peace-talks-john-kerry

This is pretty big news for the Palestinian people. If the world could just begin to understand their plight, then perhaps change can come and human rights can be reinstated for all people.

This reminds me, Anthony Bourdain, the chef, visited the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in his show recently. It's interesting, here's a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXjAfhCIDj4

In particular, note from about 5:00 to 9:00 minutes into the video.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 months ago

Anthony Bourdain and John Kerry should get together for a long lunch & see if speaking the truth has any effect on Israel's Right Wing, Likud leadership !!! Kerry said what he said - ["Israel risks becoming apartheid state if peace talks fail."] because sometimes the truth will out when it becomes undeniable.

Many thanx bw for your very strong links and I do recommend that half hour Bourdain video, to all. That Jewish/Muslim couple with the delicious looking vegetarian food particularly moved me deeply & so - in compliment of your comment, I append and recommend the following

As it took a month to get to your comment, don't be in any rush to reply, lolol ... but these articles are worth the wait, imo. Solidarity to you and yours and here's hoping for a 'bw' for us all - wherever we are, wishing - Spirit, Love & Justice can bring us all together in Peace, such that we can face the planetary challenges that will face us all in the not too distant and eminently foreseeable, future.

fiat lux, fiat justitia, fiat pax - spero ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

"US and UN condemn killing of Palestinian boy in Israel"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28138860

Do the words of Netanyahu and Kerry mean anything? Here is what they said:

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said it was "despicable" and that he had ordered police to work "as quickly as possible to find out who was behind the heinous murder of the youth".

He called on both sides "not to take the law into their own hands".

John Kerry said there were "no words to convey adequately our condolences to the Palestinian people."

So, do they really mean any of that? Do they really care? How is it that the military occupation of the Palestinian people continues right under the nose of the entire global community?

Who out there thinks two wrongs make a right? Who thinks that the military occupation of an entire group of people is okay? Why is it that the world is silent on the plight of the Palestinians? Why does Israel get a free pass by the global community?

The recent realities in that region simply cannot be ignored. And, the truth is, so long as the Palestinian people live under colonial rule, none of us are free. If we sanction our own government to support the outright occupation of other people, then what does that say of us? The repercussions are huge. World peace is not possible as long as the Palestinian people are living under occupation.

A quote from the Gideon Levy piece: "The world cannot lend its hand to this. It is unacceptable, in the 21st century, for a state that purports to be a permanent member of the free world to keep another nation deprived of rights. It is unthinkable, simply unthinkable, for millions of Palestinians to continue to live in these conditions. It is unthinkable for a democratic state to continue to oppress them in this way. It is unthinkable that the world stands by and allows it to happen."

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

''Who out there thinks two wrongs make a right? Who thinks that the military occupation of an entire group of people is okay? Why is it that the world is silent on the plight of the Palestinians? Why does Israel get a free pass by the global community?

''The recent realities in that region simply cannot be ignored. And, the truth is, so long as the Palestinian people live under colonial rule, none of us are free. If we sanction our own government to support the outright occupation of other people, then what does that say of us? The repercussions are huge. World peace is not possible as long as the Palestinian people are living under occupation.''

Quoted from you above because it bears repeating - and often. In compliment to your link & reply, see :

fiat lux, fiat justitia, fiat pax ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

"Palestinian children are assaulted or murdered every day and barely do their lives register in western press." From the ICH piece. I was kind of thinking that myself. But now, Mohamed Abu Khdeir's killing is getting into the headlines.

From today's Guardian:

"Israeli police arrest six over Mohamed Abu Khdeir killing" "Suspects held after death of 17-year-old Palestinian belong to extremist Jewish group, according to sources "

Extremists on both sides are the main problem. The majority of Israelis and Palestinians want to live in peace and could find a peaceful path to doing so. Let's hope that this happens soon.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

The murdered boy's cousin was a US born 15 year old American who ended up very badly beaten by ''Israeli undercover police'' :

As Tarek Abu Khdeir's mother (& Mohammed Abu Khdeir's aunt) said : ''You know of this because he's an American but this happens everday in Palestine''. Mohammed was at least the 11th dead Palestinian victim of the Israeli Army's immediate response to the murder of the 3 Israeli boys {6 men, 2 children, 1 pregnant woman & 1 mentally ill man}. Also over 500 people have been arbitrarily detained, thousands of homes ransacked as the collective punishment has taken its course & these are the real reasons for the immediate street resistance in the Occupied West Bank recently. Also fyi :

Now the shit is about to kick off in Gaza once again, as some Palestinians fire futile li'l rockets [mostly more like glorified fireworks] in desperate acts of defiance and Israel does what Israel does best - whilst forgetting all about the 'David and Goliath' story & there's reports of 12+ dead in Gaza already. Sad sigh.

fiat lux, fiat justitia, fiat pax ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

"U.N. Human Rights Chief Says Israel Might Be Violating International Law"

"The United Nations human rights chief on Friday voiced serious doubts that Israeli's military operation against Gaza complied with international law banning the targeting of civilians, and called on both sides to respect the rules of war."

http://www.newsweek.com/un-human-rights-chief-says-israel-might-be-violating-international-law-258338

Map of Palestine, 1922:

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~gov46/pal-transjrdn-1922.gif

Palestinian Refugee Map, 1948:

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~gov46/pal-ref-camps-1948.gif

Palestinian Refugee Map, 1967:

https://www.dartmouth.edu/~gov46/pal-ref-camps-1967.gif

Maps tell a big story. These are from Dartmouth College. Perhaps they explain Palestinian resistance.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

''International law requires Israel to take all measures to ensure that its attacks are proportional, distinguish between military and civilian objects, and avoid civilian casualties, U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said.

"We have received deeply disturbing reports that many of the civilian casualties, including of children, occurred as a result of strikes on homes. Such reports raise serious doubt about whether the Israeli strikes have been in accordance with international humanitarian law and international human rights law," Pillay said in a statement.''

The above is from your first link and many thanx for the really excellent 'map' links from Dartmouth College. I strongly recommend any and all interested readers to peruse those as they do ''tell a big story'' and also pls see the 3rd link below, in particular & in compliment, I append and recommend :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

The shrinking land of Palestine over time in maps. How clear for all to see this travesty:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/FourMaps.jpg

And, from the Mondoweiss article "Israel’s message to the Palestinians: Submit, leave or die," 2 powerful paragraphs:

"Operations Brothers’ Keeper and Protective Edge represent the imposition of a regime of warehousing, of outright imprisonment of an entire people. The seemingly blind and atavistic destruction and hatred unleashed on the Palestinians over the past few weeks is not merely yet another “round of violence” in an interminable struggle. It is the declaration of a new political reality. The message is clear, unilateral and final: This country has been Judaized: it is now the Land of Israel in the process of being incorporated into the state of Israel. You Arabs (or “Palestinians” as you call yourselves) are not a people and have no national rights, certainly to our exclusively Jewish country. You are not a “side” to a “conflict.” Once and for all we must disabuse you of the notion that we are actually negotiating with you. We never have and never will. You are nothing but inmates in prison cells, and we hereby declare through our military and political actions that you have three options before you: You can submit as inmates are required to you, in which case we will allow you to remain in your enclave-cells. You can leave, as hundreds of thousands have done before you. Or, if you choose to resist, you will die.

Warehousing is worse than apartheid. It does not even pretend to find a political framework for “separate development,” it simply jails the oppressed and robs them of all their collective and individual rights. It is the ultimate form of oppression before actual genocide, and in that it robs a people of its identity, its land, its culture and the ability to reproduce itself, it is a form of cultural genocide that can lead to worse. This is what Israel has left the Palestinians, this is the meaning of the bombing of Gaza, the terrorizing of the West Bank – and the ongoing destruction of Bedouin and Palestinian homes within Israel."

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

'Apartheid' is the word & that map link speaks louder than almost any other words. Thanx for the excellent excerpts bw and in compliment, I append and strongly recommend the following links :

An ''Oxord professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions.''

fiat lux ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

Diane Sawyer apolgizes:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/10/diane-sawyer-apology-palestine-error_n_5576247.html?utm_hp_ref=media

Diane Sawyer apologized to her viewers on Thursday for an error she made about the current violence in Palestine and Israel on her Tuesday show.

When introducing a segment about the conflict, Sawyer had misidentified the people in two photos, saying they were Israelis dealing with the aftermath of a Hamas strike. In fact, they were Palestinians reeling from the aftermath of an Israeli strike.

The error was widely criticized, and held up by some as evidence of a false balance in much of the coverage of the violence in the region, which has left over 80 Palestinians dead but has yet to cause any Israeli casualties.

"We made a mistake," Sawyer told viewers. "I misidentified these powerful images...we are truly sorry for the error."

Today, July 13, 2014 the Palestinian death toll is over 160 and over 77% are civilians, according to the UN.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Diane Sawyer is CFR all the way & a vulgar, corporate, pro-0.01%er propagandist to boot so I'm not in the least bit surprised at her lack of immediate realisation of her 'mistake' or her ignorance about Gaza.

Basically they were very nonchalant and lackadaisical at portraying any Palestinian suffering and in the absence of any substantive pictures of any damage in Israel - she and her news team thought they had some kind of scoop and were disinclined to check for accuracy or truth. Here's some real news though :

Today, July 14th, 6pm EST, The Palestinian death toll is at least 184 with well over 1,300 injured & the toll after a week is in excess of the 2012 Israeli War On Gaza & the suffering and misery is clear to all.

pax, amor et lux - et oremus ....

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

The Israeli death toll is zero as of July 14th, 6pm EST.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

And long may it stay just like that. + : http://www.bdsmovement.net/ !

."Nobody should be a number : Names of those killed in Gaza" :

oremus ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

End the Occupation of Palestine!!!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Diane Sawyer apologized to her viewers on Thursday for an error

Translation : She took one for the Team - sorry - OWNER.

And no that urges me NOT towards any sympathy for Di.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Diane Sawyer apolgizes

MSM = Send in the clowns...............

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

Grassroots efforts on behalf of the Palestinians is underway as the truth gets out. Here is an excellent website I recently found and a few very interesting and useful pages from it:

http://www.annainthemiddleeast.com/

http://www.annainthemiddleeast.com/whatcanyou/index.html

"My first reaction was disbelief, and anger. Families told me stories of past and present military attacks, house demolitions, land confiscation, imprisonment without trial, and torture. It seemed that these actions were not carried out for the protection of Jewish people, but rather for the creation and expansion of a Jewish state at the expense of the rights, lives, and dignity of the non-Jewish people living in the region. It was hard for me to believe that Israel could act so unjustly.

Not believing what I heard, I decided to do some research to prove myself right. Immediately, I was shocked to find how much I didn’t know about the situation on the ground. Not knowing who or what to believe anymore, I decided to go to see the situation with my own eyes. Since I returned, I’ve dedicated my life to informing fellow Americans and others about what I found, and what they can do to support a just peace for all peoples in Israel/Palestine."

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

''Like many Americans and many Jews, I grew up with a positive view of Israel as a peace-seeking democracy. Israel symbolized to me the one protection that Jews had against the type of persecution that had plagued families like mine throughout history. I saw the Jewish state as a tiny and victimized country that simply wanted to live in peace but couldn’t because of its aggressive, Jew-hating Arab neighbors.

''In 2003, during a backpacking trip through the Middle East, I began to meet Palestinian refugees from 1948. I didn’t know who the Palestinians were, or where Palestine was, and through my new acquaintances I began to hear a narrative about the history and present of Israel/Palestine that was entirely different from the one I had learned growing up in the United States.'' From your excellent and highly recommended link & in compliment, consider :

Miko Peled is someone who like Anna Baltzer, had an epiphany of experience over propaganda and love and compassion over more basal fear and loathing. This what we all can aspire to do - but we do have to want to do so in the first instance.

amor vincit omnia ...

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

Stephen Hawking boycott's Israel.

"Stephen Hawking's boycott hits Israel where it hurts: science."

"What really winds up Israel is that this rejection comes from a famous scientist, and it is science that drives its economy, prestige and military strength"

http://www.theguardian.com/science/political-science/2013/may/13/stephen-hawking-boycott-israel-science

"Witness the speed with which the pro-Israel lobby seized on Cambridge University's initial false claim that he had withdrawn on health grounds to denounce the boycott movement, and their embarrassment when within a few hours the university shamefacedly corrected itself. Hawking also made it clear that if he had gone he would have used the occasion to criticise Israel's policies towards the Palestinians."

"That the world's most famous scientist had recognised the justice of the Palestinian cause is potentially a turning point for the BDS campaign." BDS being boycott, divestment and sanctions.

Nice. Wake up world! Find your humanity!

[-] 4 points by turbocharger (1394) 3 months ago

Here ya go, we are completely out of touch over here:

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/humiliates-endorses-surveillance.html

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

''If Israel has a right to defend itself, why doesn't Palestine have a right to defend itself, Mr. President? What would you do President Obama, if your family was imprisoned in the Gaza strip? Would you accept that peacefully?

''Time to think deeply about these questions and time to end the strife in that region that is being caused by the imprisonment, occupation, oppression, apartheid and who knows what else, in one of the most densely populated tiny spots on earth.''

Thanx bw ~*~

ad iudicium ...

[-] 4 points by turbocharger (1394) 3 months ago

I watched the press conference on the plane the other day, and listened to him say

"The there is no time for propaganda"..

I almost spit my coffee all over my keyboard.

Another little gem from the past few days:

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/humiliates-endorses-surveillance.html

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

That really is powerful info & many thanx for your link. + See ..

ad iudicium ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

Plenty of people around the world are beginning to understand the plight of the Palestinians. Wouldn't it be nice if their governments would do the same, and that goes for the U.S. as well.

If Israel has a right to defend itself, why doesn't Palestine have a right to defend itself, Mr. President? What would you do President Obama, if your family was imprisoned in the Gaza strip? Would you accept that peacefully? Time to think deeply about these questions and time to end the strife in that region that is being caused by the imprisonment, occupation, oppression, apartheid and who knows what else, in one of the most densely populated tiny spots on earth.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

"As Gaza burns, it is clear two states would only cement Israel’s apartheid" by Ben White

http://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/as-gaza-burns-it-is-clear-two-states-would-only-cement-israels-apartheid

"There is no “kind” colonialism, and no polite displacement. First comes the bayonet and bulldozer, and then comes the demand for acceptance and timidity."

"Anti-Arab, or anti-Palestinian, racism and incitement is present at every level of Israeli society. It is a symptom of settler colonialism, where the threat of the “Other” is not simply a tool of political demagogues but a reminder of destroyed villages and haunted buildings."

"Apartheid domination was never the goal of political Zionism in Palestine. The objective was, simply, a Jewish state, and to realise this aim required the removal of the land’s pre-existing, non-Jewish majority. But it did not turn out to be so simple, and the Palestinian people can point to decades of resistance and steadfastness in the face of efforts to reduce them to “resettled” refugees and obedient minorities."

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

The 'Two State Solution' has now been utterly obviated by Israeli actions on the ground over 60+ years :

Increasingly people like Miko Peled's point of view will come into view as clearer & more universal truth :

Because the Likud Right-Wing Coalition of Fanatics has sold Zionism and Judaism down the fkn river !!!

Meanwhile : http://mywaytofight.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/a-desperate-plea-from-an-israeli-jew/ and ...

Thanx again for a strong link & excerpts.Take <3 from Miko Peled & Solidarity To The 99% Everywhere.

Our opposing the attack on Gaza should not be a matter of Arabness, Jewishness or Americanness ....

... .. It should be a matter of humanness ~*~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBYkBqY1-LM !!!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

Important article on Gaza for all to read who wish to understand the plight of the Palestinians:

"The Nightmare of Gaza Continues" by James Zogby

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/the-nightmare-of-gaza-con_b_5601723.html

Every word of that article holds deep truths, just basic facts, about life in Gaza and how they have been maltreated for several decades. Please read and understand, and use your own humanity to bring about change in whatever way you can.

[-] 8 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

"The Nightmare of Gaza Continues" by James Zogby is really an absolute must read right now, I think. Thanx bw & in compliment (sadly) I append and recommend :

fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

"...most Gazan Palestinians are refugees from what is now Israel, created by Israel during the 1947-1949 ethnic cleansing of Palestine by Zionist forces. The Zionists – fresh colonial immigrants from Europe to Palestine under British colonial rule – aimed to create a “Jewish state” on a land populated by an overwhelming majority of non-Jews (Muslim and Christian Palestinians). They achieved this through violent expulsion in what is known as the Nakba (Palestinian catastrophe). Gaza is the small strip of land into which a large number of refugees from historic Palestine were herded. Thus most Gazans have land and property deeds which have been confiscated from them by the newly established Zionist state and were prevented from returning to their homes for the only reason of not being Jewish."

This is important for all people to understand. It is the absolute root of the problems there.

Repeat "...most Gazans have land and property deeds which have been confiscated from them by the newly established Zionist state and were prevented from returning to their homes for the only reason of not being Jewish."

"And indeed, hundreds of thousands of Israelis live in houses that were confiscated from their legal owners who are now destitute stateless refugees languishing in refugee camps only a few miles away, while the refugees are being vilified for trying to reclaim what’s legally theirs."

Now think. What would you do if you were a Palestinian? You'd fight for your life back, don't you think? So, who is defending themselves? And, who is the aggressor?

"The bottom line: Israel expects Gazans to accept their fate and live peacefully behind walls and barbed wire, without an economy, future or slight hope for returning to their original land and homes, while the warden liquidates people as he pleases and shoots anybody who approaches the fence and continues his colonization drive in the West Bank."

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

So, ''most Gazans have land and property deeds which have been confiscated from them by the newly established Zionist state and were prevented from returning to their homes for the only reason of not being Jewish."

"And indeed, hundreds of thousands of Israelis live in houses that were confiscated from their legal owners who are now destitute stateless refugees languishing in refugee camps only a few miles away, while the refugees are being vilified for trying to reclaim what’s legally theirs." Now think. What would you do if you were a Palestinian? You'd fight for your life back, don't you think? So, who is defending themselves? And, who is the aggressor?''

~

These are some of the elemental truths pertaining to the Palestinian situation in Gaza that are never spoken of in USUK MSM BS & in compliment please consider :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

"The United Nations human rights chief on Friday voiced serious doubts that Israeli's military operation against Gaza complied with international law banning the targeting of civilians, and called on both sides to respect the rules of war."

So - one wonders - where is the condemnation for the USA's Drone War? Toothless Gutless Wishy-Washy Corrupt failure = the UN

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

"Drone strikes by US may violate international law, says UN"

"Report says CIA attacks led to civilian deaths and casualties and says US protocols are 'hurdle to transparency"

"A United Nations investigation has so far identified 33 drone strikes around the world that have resulted in civilian casualties and may have violated international humanitarian law."

From: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/18/drone-strikes-us-violate-law-un

Great point. I don't respect the UN either but it is right on both of these matters. And, when the UN actually does condemn an action by a "government" then usually the action has already gone too far.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

then usually the action has already gone too far.

So is stated quite correctly = the UN weak ineffectual always late to act and always acting out of a position of weakness - oft times doing more harm than doing any good.

And yes the crimes against humanity ( the drone war for one ) have gone on much too long - with little being said about it and even less done about it.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

Exactly. What a waste of an organization that could have been so great and could have done so much.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1394) 3 months ago

Keep in mind how it was formed. The victors of WWII created it as a legal body to further their grip. Nothing more, nothing less.

After marching into the Middle East and carving the place up, along with declaring some nice borders as "Israel", who else could enforce that? It was a group of countries, so clearly no one country could enforce it.

Just like making the ol dollar the only way to do trade. Need some kind of a higher authority to pull of that kind of a fascist stunt. Especially after "ridding the world of evil".

Imagine someone coming to your town, which is being blown to shreds, and after its over declaring You are all saved, but from now on all purchases have to go through my website. If you dont, you will be punished. PS- I just nuked two cities, try me!

What an absolute racket. Very sad how humanity is constantly led to battle against each other.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21339) 3 months ago

Humanity is not looking too good right now, July 18, 2014, and the UN is doing nothing to make the human race re-appear.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1394) 3 months ago

I kind of look at the UN like politicians, only not as a singular puppet, but as the stage on which the puppets perform.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

[ edit ] If only the members had the strength the courage the honesty to talk TRUTH to power - If only the members were not playing games of advantage for themselves. IF ONLY

edit -> One can see obvious similarities in government - every government - seen very clearly for me in looking at state and federal government - here - in the USA = ineffectual weak corrupt - late to act - often causing more harm rather than accomplishing any good. Sad - So - SAD

[-] 3 points by flip (7022) 3 months ago

i think you should keep in mind that the general assembly often takes strong stands on issues but it has no real power. the un was set up to be undemocratic for that reason. take a look at the u.s. vetos over the years and you will see why the un does nothing. it is not because its members have no courage

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Why? Why does the U.N. have no power? Why should a U.S. veto carry so much "wait" ( yeah I know ). Seriously - the U.S. saying "no" should not stop the U.N. from taking needed actions. If the U.N. is weak it is because it chooses to be so.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1394) 4 months ago

All this real truth will be a distant memory in a few months as each side battles for supremacy in the "most important election ever"... with devastating consequences is the other wins.

Humans, gotta love em.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 months ago

Truths remain true, even IF temporarily forgotten. From Gideon Levy's insightful piece above, I quote :

''The two-state discussion must now become a discussion of rights : Dear Israelis, you wanted an occupation and the settlements – knock yourselves out ! Remain in Yitzhar, dig yourselves into the mountainside and build to your hearts’ desire in Itamar. But you absolutely must grant full rights to the Palestinians living alongside, exactly the same rights that you enjoy.

''Equal rights for all; one person, one vote – that should be the message of the international community. After all, what could Israel say to this new message ? That there cannot be equal rights because the Jews are the chosen people ? That it would endanger security ? The excuses would quickly run out, and the naked truth would come to light : that in this land, only Jews have rights. Such a message cannot go unchallenged.

''This is the truth, even if it’s bitter. America and Europe have kowtowed to Israel enough. Unfortunately, to no effect. From now on, the world must speak a different language and perhaps it will be understood. After all, Israel has proved, more than once, that the language of power and punishment is its main language.''

spero meliora ...

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Peres to present Obama with signed petition for Jonathan Pollard's release : Israeli President to be awarded the Medal of Freedom by U.S. President; intends to discuss fate of convicted Israeli spy and nuclear talks with Iran.", by Natasha Mozgovaya (June 12, 2012, "Harretz") ;

fiat justitia ...

[-] 6 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Yes, just saw that as you copied it on jart's thread. Thanx for your strong point & link. Laws and international treaties becoming enacted above the heads and beyond the purview of what is left of organised labour bodes ever ill for The 99% and needs Labour Solidarity & Organisation worldwide.

Ergo, Globalise Resistance !!!

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Some pretty fucked-up individuals in government.

The people need to regain government ASAP.

Or we are all going straight to a real Hell on Earth World Wide. The demons will be real they will be the corpoRats.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

''Belligerent occupations – especially ones where no hope or end is in sight – engender evermore creative and costly forms of resistance, as the hunger strike demonstrates. A physical act of resistance can be temporarily foiled. But the spirit behind it cannot be so easily subdued.'' from :

amor vincit omnia ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Problem being - when the final mask is dropped by those in power - they won't care if the whole world goes on a hunger strike - it would save them effort if we were to starve ourselves to death - at that point in time.

But getting back to the point - ''You Can’t Force-feed Occupation to Those Who Crave Freedom"

Nope you can not - as what you get is increased resistance as time goes by. Lesson demonstrated regularly in Iraq as well as other lesser known places.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

''The Cremation Of Care'' huh ?!!! We're ruled by psychopaths, you reckon ?!! Sigh and True That me thinx ! Waaay past my bed time but as I slink off to bed, this feels even more relevant right now ...

pax ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Like Nevada1 asked earlier on another thread = a Reign of Terror?

Yep - I replied - that's exactly what we have - right now.

footyball being good to you? I see the U.S. is still playing?

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Re. ''The Cremation Of Care'' & a ''Reign of Terror'' .. and its flip-side, I came across via a BCT comment, a reply by 'trashyharry' about 'Gnostics' earlier .. and so, I am cross linking with your forum-post here ...

Re.The Football World Cup, The USA have been playing really GREAT !

They played very well to beat Ghana 2-1 in the first game of the group stage and were VERY unlucky to only draw 2-2 with Portugal, who only equalised in the very last minute !!

Today (26th June, 1pm EST) is the 3rd and last game of the group stage, against ... Germany, with US 'Head Coach', Jurgen Klinsman being a German himself and USA need at least a draw to go through to next 'Round of Sixteen' stage, so ... The Best Of Luck To The USA Team - we love (nearly) all you good Mericans ... other than your Idiot Pols and Other Right-Wing, Nut-Jobs !!!

Good Luck @ The World Cup, USA ...

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Justice not totally dead yet - Hey? = your link http://www.popularresistance.org/occupy-protesters-arrested-for-satirizing-police-reach-22000-settlement/

The absurdity - to arrest for impersonating a police officer - and then downgraded to reckless endangerment = haahahahahahaaaahaha oh so lame and transparent eeeeHEEhehehehaaahahaha they had nothing

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Dick Cheney's most popular moment in the eyes of the Public? = Shooting a Banker in the face. PR stunt? Sorry bud but take one for the team my ( Dick speaking ) popularity with the public is dismal !

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Congratulations to The US Football Squad for Germany 1, USA 0 & qualifying from the Group Stage to the next 'knock out' 'Group Of 16'' stage. There are more USA football fans in Brasil than from any other country too, so doubly impressive. US'll face Belgium in the next round. Good Luck. Ain't footy great ?!

More prosaically re. OWS .. "Another world is possible. On a quiet day I can hear her breathing" said Arundhati Roy but re. Cheney and his fkng lunatic, warmongering ilk - please see, laugh and frown at this ..

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

USA continuing in the tourney kinda through the backdoor - Hey? Bet they feel fortunate for the opportunity that another-s loss provided.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

They fully deserve their place in ''The Round Of Sixteen'' :-) Spain, Italy and other teams - who shall remain nameless, already out :-( My bed beckons so g'night but before I slink off, re.you know who :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

'Colin Powell' : ''So what is our real exit strategy in Iraq, Dick ?''

'Dick Cheney' : ''There Is No Exit .. We Stay'' !!! - excerpted from :

Thanx for your excellent 'DailyKos' linked cartoon. I wish it were more funny than true but scarily it was all really rather too believable !

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

There "are" Monsters.

In case you didn't see it yet: https://occupywallst.org/forum/it-is-not-a-threat-nope-just-a-statement-of-realit/

Apparently - not all are blind to the facts of life.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Nick Hanauer is very good & thanx for the nice link. Yes there be ''monsters'' in DC & the mthrfkrs are out of control, while all the while The 99% Struggle slowly gathers momentum as we join the dots and start to wake up ...

spero meliora ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

[ edit ] G-night

And Dick and others "should" be rotting in the Hague - others to include the authorize-rs of Depleted Uranium use as armaments in ANY conflict as well as the criminal misuse of drone bombings = in civilian locations. DU and the drone war = Crimes against humanity.

edit-> Hmmm would they have them room together - ya think? Who gets stuck with who? Rummy and the Dick? G-dub and Obummer? hmmmm - I smell the makings of a reality show........ Big Brother - at the Hague.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

I'd like to see Cheney's head on a stick ...

But Matt has the moral high ground, bless.

respice et prospice ...

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4784) 3 months ago

youtube missing. Due to lack of a soul, would like to see Cheney's transplanted heart get repossessed.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Cheney has a transplanted heart ?! Did he have one in the first place ?!! He could've fooled me !!!

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

a clockwork Cheney? Blair's head on a stick? ooo is the tower of London going back in business?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Looks like the vid got pulled?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

I'd like to see Cheney's head on a stick ...

Ya might see that at a State Fair - they have pretty much anything you can imagine on a stick.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

oooo - downvotes - for crotch kicking Cheney comments - HAH hah ha hahahahaaahahaha

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Tony Fkn BLiar's head on a stick would be fitting and just too but tho' that 'Cheney War Room' clip plays in my region, obviously not in yours. Hmmm. Try this replacement link :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 3 points by MattHolck0 (1723) 3 months ago

all killing is wrong

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

[ edit ] Cheney one just one real face of evil a real terrorist in a position of power. Re. your link http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38920.htm

edit -> The only ones so far to use Nuclear weapons = the U.S. = Depleated Uranium.

What about "that?" Dick !!! You evil bastard. What would you call the use of DU arms here in the USA - let me guess = AN ACT OF TERROR and CRIMINAL ( no doubt ). WHY is it with you evil bastards - that when You do it it's all good?

[-] 4 points by Nevada1 (4784) 3 months ago

More war coming-----They totally intend to do it.

[-] 5 points by Nevada1 (4784) 3 months ago

"Warfare Queens"-----That says a lot

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Excellent program I thought.

Funny - but also very sad for the truth in it.

Too bad it's not likely those that would benefit by seeing the program will see it = the constituents of those that are portrayed in the program. Again those constituents are not being represented by those in office - which also makes it sad that they will not be likely to see the program.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Don't miss the segment on child labor and the tobacco fields. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/27/1309948/-MUST-SEE-Jon-Stewart-goes-after-warfare-queens

Thank God that we live in such an enlightened age - Hey?

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (2710) from Waterville, NY 3 months ago

Who will lend the money for a war? Can they force someone to do it,or can they finance it by selling T-Bills? Chinese banks apparently were the main source of finance for Iraq.What if they start trying to float so many T-Bills the market crashes? I just can't imagine the finance angle of how they could do it.Right around the time of the Iraq-Afghan invasions,there was 24/7 rail freight traffic-empty cars going north,superheavy loads going south.I no longer live near the tracks,but I now live next to a Spook Airport.About 3 months ago,I could see that someone was training people there on the C-130.This continued intensely for a couple of months.Now they are back to very light Spook Plane traffic.Another thing that happens when war is coming is a shortage of nylon.Spiking copper prices are also one of their tells.Right now,I am not sure,but they have painted themselves into a corner with the ZIRG,the QEQEQE thing and the problems that happen when you have to pay enormous interest on debt.So they are going to do something to avoid being held accountable for their huge criminality,their treason and their general incompetenceThe pressure is building,because inflation is rising,and they can't do anything to check it with ZIRG being their policy.What a mess..

[-] 4 points by Nevada1 (4784) 3 months ago

Hoping something stops the war. Thanks for interesting info.

[-] 5 points by trashyharry (2710) from Waterville, NY 3 months ago

Now Obama is proposing a 500 million giveaway to the MIC.Can this make it through the House? A pretty weak gesture,IMHO.Shipping in tons of weapons which will go directly to ISIS? If this goes through it will only be more proof that everybody on Capital Hill is delusional-not that any more proof is needed.

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1723) 3 months ago

money is highly fictional theses days

they'll find it if they need to conquer some material resources

taking is easier than producing

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (2710) from Waterville, NY 3 months ago

I can't really make sense of what is going on at the Fed.Something very weird is happening with the bond markets.It seems like there has been total panic at the Fed for about 3 weeks.They want everyone to sell bonds.There have been escalating delivery fails.It seems like one or more cupboard is bare at the Fed.Situation developing...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

No doubt about it - does not matter what anyone has to say about it - the public does not count.

The Public & the Government = No representation.

Private interests ( fossil fuel in this case ) run the policy.

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1394) 3 months ago

One may put the ability to manipulate and profit off of the world bond rates as even higher than fossil fuels.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26672) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 months ago

Suggesting Qweasing as a possible motivation?

[-] 2 points by nazihunter (215) 4 months ago

I think there's been things Pat said in the days of the Reaganites that I wasn't so close to. I know he's said some definite politically-calculated things. But, I appreciate his attacks on the GOP over the past as well, which have been on target. The main thing I get from this is lobbies-all lobbies-have done more to destroy the people's vote. The GOP likes to bring up the founding fathers. Just mention lobbies to their gravesites and you'll see them turned over in their graves.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Lobbies and lobbying are indeed out of control now AND - a clear and present ; real and direct, threat to any semblance of democracy that we have in 'The West' !!! PB does beat on GOP !! But alas, that does oft get missed on the forum, lol ! Also, re. your comment, please see points 8 and 9 here ...

fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Noam Chomsky - ''Whose Security? How Washington Protects Itself and the Corporate Sector'' :

Appended here as the article chimes with your comment & I quote : ''There are many problems that must be addressed, but two are overwhelming in their significance: environmental destruction and nuclear war. For the first time in history, we face the possibility of destroying the prospects for decent existence -- and not in the distant future. For this reason alone, it is imperative to sweep away the ideological clouds and face honestly and realistically the question of how policy decisions are made, and what we can do to alter them before it is too late.''

spero meliora ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Patrick J. Buchanan : "Is Romney Being Neoconned Into War ?"

~

Has Mitt Romney given Israel a blank check for war?

So it seemed from the declaration in Jerusalem by his adviser Dan Senor, who all but flashed Israel a green light for war, signaling the Israelis that, if you go, Mitt’s got your back:

“If Israel has to take action on its own in order to stop Iran from developing that capability, the governor would respect that decision.”

“No option would be excluded. Gov. Romney recognizes Israel’s right to defend itself and that it is right for America to stand with it.”

What does “stand with” Israel, if she launches a surprise attack on Iran, mean? Does it mean the United States will guide Israeli planes to their targets and provide bases on their return? Does it mean U.S. air cover while Israeli planes strike Iran?

This would make America complicit in a preemptive strike and a co-belligerent in the war to follow.

What Senor said comes close to being a U.S. war guarantee for Israel, while leaving the decision as to when the war begins to them.

This country has never done that before.

And what does Senor mean by Israel’s need to act “to stop Iran from developing [the] capability” to acquire nuclear weapons?

The collective decision of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies in 2007 that Iran is not pursuing a nuclear weapon — reportedly reaffirmed in 2011 — has never been rescinded. Nor has the White House produced any hard evidence Iran is building a bomb.

Moreover, Iran’s known nuclear facilities are under inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Does the government know something the American people are not being told?

Undeniably, Iran, by enriching uranium to 3.5%, then up to 20%, has a greater “capability” than five years ago of building a nuclear weapon. But Japan, South Korea, and Brazil also have that capability — and none has decided to build a nuclear weapon.

Gov. Romney did not go as far as Senor, but he, too, seems to be saying that not only is Iran’s possession of a nuclear weapon a casus belli for the United States, even an Iran that is capable of building such a weapon is intolerable.

“The regime in Iran is five years closer to developing nuclear weapons capability,” said Romney. “Preventing that outcome must be our highest national security priority.”

Preventing what outcome is “our highest national security priority”?

Stopping Iran from building a bomb? Or stopping Iran from being able to build a bomb years from now?

The governor seems to be aligning himself with Israel’s hawks who are demanding that not only must Iran swear off nuclear weapons forever, Iran must cease all enrichment of uranium and dismantle the facilities at Natanz and Fordow.

Romney’s policy is zero enrichment, said Senor. Tehran must understand that “the alternative to zero enrichment is severe, and that’s why the threat of military force has to be critical.”

This is tantamount to an ultimatum to Tehran: Either give up all enrichment of uranium and any right to enrich, or face war.

Here we come to the heart of the issue, which may be impossible to resolve short of war.

Unlike its neighbors Israel and Pakistan, Iran has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has no nuclear weapons. The ayatollah has said they are immoral and Iran will not acquire them.

But under the NPT, Iran claims the right to enrich uranium and seek the benefits of nuclear technology. And in that decision, the people of Iran stand behind their government.

Is denying Iran the right to enrich uranium a reason for America to plunge into its fifth war in that region in a generation?

That appears where we are headed. Reportedly, Obama’s national security adviser recently briefed Bibi Netanyahu on the specifics of U.S. contingency plans to attack Iran.

Has Congress been briefed? Have the American people been consulted? Or are we simply irrelevant?

A decade ago, this country sent an army up to Baghdad to overthrow Saddam and strip Iraq of a vast arsenal of chemical and biological weapons we were told it had and was preparing to use.

We were misled; we were deceived; we were lied to.

Before we outsource to Bibi and Ehud Barak the decision to take us to war with a country three times the size of Iraq, we need to know:

Was the U.S. intelligence community wrong in 2007 and 2011? Is Iran hell-bent on building nuclear weapons? If so, where are they constructing and testing these weapons?

Finally, if Iran is willing to permit intrusive inspections of its actual and suspected nuclear sites but insists on its right to enrich uranium, should we go to war to deny them that right?

But if we are going to go to war again, this time with Iran, the decision should be made in America, according to our Constitution, not by any other country.

~

fiat pax ...

~

(© 2011 Creators Syndicate & article copied verbatim under "Fair Use" from : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32032.htm .]

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Adelson's Pro-Romney Donations Will Be 'Limitless,' Could Top $100M", by Steven Bertoni :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Congress Pushes for War with Iran", by Stephen Zunes :

cave - bellum se ipsum alet ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Abe Foxman’s ADL Lets Its Bigotry Slip : In its view there are no Palestinian citizens of Israel & “Israelis” support military action against Iran ; http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31620.htm

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Romney aide to Haaretz : After he’s elected, Iran will see there’s a new sheriff in town", by Chemi Shalev (June 09, 2012, "Haaretz") -- "In wide-ranging interview, Former ambassador Richard Williamson says U.S. Republican candidate will make military threats against Tehran credible, arm Syria's rebels, and visit Israel before going anywhere else." :

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Norman Finkelstein on Why Obama Doesn't Believe His Own Words on Israel-Palestine" (Video) : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31535.htm .

fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Pat Buchanan while still an 'old school' conservative does have some good points. He is very much anti-Free Trade. I still wouldn't vote for him or Ron Paul.

[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 2 years ago

I DID vote for Buchanan in 2000, because he's antiwar and I'll probably write in Ron Paul this year for the same reason. If Paul is good enough for Kucinich, he should be good enough anyone else.

[-] 4 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

If Paul is good enough for Kucinich, he should be good enough anyone else.

As an independent thinker I view Paul as a right wing Libertarian.... not my style.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Pat Buchanan or Buch Patanan - "what's in a name" ... it's what the bloke says that American Citizens need to hear !!!

ad iudicium ....

[-] 2 points by lkindr (58) 2 years ago

So you folks don't really mind that the U.S. is immorally warring against other nations etc, and you'll only support pretended antiwar candidates like Obama. I, on the other hand, voted for Buchanan in 2000, Kerry in 04 and Obama in 08, because they all seemed more antiwar. It's ridiculous to be loyal to a Party. The alternative political method at http://GOOOH.com makes much more sense then a Party. That's how the 99% may be able to collaborate effectively.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Most folks here mind Very Much "that the U.S. is immorally warring against other nations" and tho' not really my 'cup of tea' politically, Pat Buchanan has integrity and consistency.

The Faux-Binary ; Two-Factions ; One Corporate WAR Party ; "Demoblican or Republocrat" system really makes little difference internationally, tho' there may be an argument for some (albeit meagre) differences within The U$A.

A New Third Party representing The 99% Working People and also True Independents (cf. Bernie Saunders, I-Vt.) is Urgently Needed & The Work Must Start 'B4' Xmas 2012 !!!

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Pro-Israel Activists Break New Ground : An Anti-Arab Hate Video : This video has to be seen to be believed. Although it has long been known that AIPAC, the American Jewish Committee and other pro-Netanyahu groups have ties to groups promoting anti-Arab and anti-Muslim hate, this video represents a new low.", by M.J.Rosenberg : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31680.htm .

multum in parvo ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Well I was wondering just how long it'd take you to find this thread ! I so nearly copied you the link to it before in our previous exchanges too !! I didn't do so tho' - because it seemed a li'l self-aggrandising but thanx for this very timely revival !!! Whare shall we start ? Here perhaps :

So Mr. Dog - which bit of the original forum-post do you take exception to again ? You did read it, right ?

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Is saying ''you lying libertarian cunt should put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger'' really anyway to be talking to anyone here or anywhere else for that matter and - what are you thinking ?!!!

You're the one who used to vote Repelican but now baselessly and fiendishly accusing me of all sorts of falsely imagined right wing lunacies - whilst you engage in outright .. SHillary for Hitlary !!

You'll get away with nothing, as you hex your karma & perturb your so called Zen, Dork !

Hope you looked at the links here & never mind people - I don't think that you're safe around guns either.

You chose to revive this 2 year old post in order to take me on here. So how's that working out for you ?

If you give the slightest fuk about your country & democracy in The US, then please watch the following video from Thom Hartmann in its entirety - but especially the five very powerful minutes from minute 23 :

The US 99% need to believe that there's hope and that Turkeys need not keep voting for Thanksgiving !!!

ad iudicium ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

You chose to revive this 2 year old post in order to take me on here. So how's that working out for you ?

So saying ''get outa my face'' when you decided to put yourself in mine, only indicates a damaged brain.

Have you ANY rational 'thorts, ZenDork' ?! OR would you sooner continue with the childish brain-farts ?!!

ad iudicium ...

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

That's not ''consistency'', lololol !!! IF it is then it's ''consistency'' in utter fallacy, ignorance and stupidity, lolol !! Not to mention, a desperate example of 'attention seeking' lol !

fallaces sunt rerum species ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Your ''consistency'' in spamming is on display to all here ! As is the state of your mental health !! You've also been warned about your atrocious language before too .. on many, many occasions, I would add !!!

multum in parvo ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

That's exactly my point !!! You need to be really aware of it too !! Why not join some nice Vermonters ?!

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Nope not ''trying to cash in'' ! T'was your Dog who seemed to think that reviving this 2 year old post was somehow a worthy exercise, so while wondering how that was going for him (& you ?) ... I will just keep obliging him in that matter, if that is ok with you, lolol ?!! You may fancy yourself as his string-puller but you're not my editor or examiner here snooz & that was another thing I told you before - if you recall ?!!!

Irrespective of your butting in and trying to cover ZD here, anyone who reads here, knows just where the actually relevant 'bigotry', 'racism' & 'prejudice' lays but in case you're still confused or wilfully ignorant :

ad iudicium ...

[+] -7 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

David Duke.

Did you find something pithy to quote from him yet?

Your quoting and deference of Buchanan is a shame.

A shame not easily shaken off, considering the body of his work.

A body of work, that you are ignoring. Repetitively.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

David Duke AND Pat Buchanan would be so much closer to your past Libertarian believing and probable Republican voting ass, than mine - both now or then !!! Your barely house trained attackDog tried to take me on in this matter so I'll refer you to this reply :

but the entire thread warrants reading if you have nothing else better to do - which you clearly haven't !! Shilling for Dems and Hitlary is NOT that far from your past Libertarian beliefs either btw - despite what you may imagine and is totally antithetical to and inappropriate on - this OWS Forum I would suggest !

Somewhat more humorously and more in keeping with this thread, have a weary smile at this now :

verum ex absurdo ?

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Hmmm, ''hysterical'' would be you and your self-referential bollocks but hey - try to look at this now :

''It is believed to be the first time a US official of Kerry's standing has used the term 'apartheid' in the context of Israel.''

Do you reckon he really didn't know what he was saying ? Do you know WHO he was saying it to ?

veritas vos liberabit ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

So, consider : ''Like Kerry, Senior Israeli Officials Have Warned Of Israel Becoming 'An Apartheid State'', by Ben Armbruster :

I think that you'll find that it is You who's the one who was having a go at ''pestering'' me, as evidenced by your several comments here - on this thread & even your forum-posts referencing me directly ; your attempts to bully A4C, LeoYo and a host of others ; not to mention your toilet-mouthed language at all and sundry bar your Dem cohorts. I'm not so easily intimidated tho' & you will only reap what you sow.

It's called Karma, 'NoZenMadDod' & even on this International May Day, I find myself with no solidarity with reactionaries like you - who can't even find anything good to say nor be proud of the Vermont Bus Drivers Strike in your own Burlington backyard, never mind express any genuine solidarity - as after all you seem to regard it as ''a polarizing issue'' right ? :

Any thoughts about anything at all re. the issues raised in the original forum-post ; this whole thread ; or even just this reply ? Have you perchance learnt anything at all in your time on this forum ? Have any of the thoughts or ideas that you came here with changed or evolved ? Or are you actually much the same reactionary, conservative that you always were ?

respice, adspice, prospice ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Re. ''racist, jew hating fuck'' - oh dear, Oh Dear, OH DEAR !!! You are so very wrong ; on so many levels & for so many reasons, that you can not even imagine !! Nevertheless, any and all readers will note your inability to address any of the issues raised and your imminent meltdown here ! Fyi do further consider :

It's not at all surprising how you echo the ''Right Wing'' right ?!!! Keep repeating your spam - as it'll only invoke more reality check links and further slap downs !! You're out of control on this forum but you are given free reign & although this is only very counter-productive to you and your enablers in the long run, you're too fkn schtoopid to get it !

temet nosce ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

The old repeat a lie often enough in the hope that it will stick, right ?! Look around, it is you who stands reviled !! Is it a lie that you used to vote Republican ; or that you think Neocon, Neoliberal, Hitlary is the answer to The 99%'s troubles in the USA or that you are a toilet mouthed, parDisan bully who gets free reign to talk shit here ?!!! Other 99% -centric posters have been banned for 1% of what u get away with.

There are 'Bat Shit Crazy Conservatives' and then there are 'conservatives' ; there are also 'Conservative Democrats' & then there are ''more conservative than your average liberal'' Democrats too !!! D'you know who you're shilling for ?!! Let's all look at who else has been bashing poor li'l Israel recently, shall we ?!

Are those ''conservative'' enough sources for you ? What is it all coming to d'you think - when the likes of Zbigniew Brezezinski etc. are now exasperated into seeing and speaking elemental truths ? Go on - affect a huge fit of apoplexy for us now why don't you - but can you also manage a cogent response ?!

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

So, ''two cheeks of the same ass'' is the best description of the 'snooz and MadDog' show here, as your diversionary tactics - reveal you to be just that !!! You fkn li'l nationalistic, US-uber-alles nicompoop !! BP used to be called 'British Petroleum' and before that -The Anglo-Persian Oil Co. when CIA agent, Kermit Roosevelt & 'Operation Ajax' turned over the Last Democratically Elected Social-Democrat, Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran and that BP is now another Earth-Raping ''International Oil Corporation'' but what did that actually have anything to do with the cut and thrust here ?!

However, just screeching ''BRITISH'' is somehow a rational response, right ? No, WRONG again, eedjut !

e tenebris lux ...

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

So you're blaming BP actions, or lack thereof on the CIA?

Huh??

Here.

Let's take an Occupy look at your own backyard again.

http://www.occupy.com/article/uk-teacher-strikes-reveal-public-sector-unrest-trade-union-power-grows

There's so much you seem to be missing while you entertain various conspiracy theories, and puppet shows.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

No fool, I was not ''blaming BP actions'' on The CIA & only a complete fukwit would even try to draw that stupid inference !!! You are the one who insists that BP is somehow solely ''BRITISH'' and I was pointing out how historically the US is its aider and abettor !! But you're too much of a simple, binary-minded, li'l nationalist to get it & look into the events leading to the Gulf Of Mexico disaster, to get my point better !

You keep linking to & looking at what you wish but you don't fool me or anyone else here with your lame distractions, diversions or duplicity. Ergo - for you and others as per the OP and thread and John Kerry's own words :

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Any mention of the fundies?

How come I doubt it? Oh yeah, you said you were going to address it, but you didn't.

You would rather quote a bigot and call me names.

Why don't you tell me why they call it BRITISH Petroleum then, if it's not British?

Dutch Shell, probably isn't Dutch then either?

Or are you just using this as an excuse to ignore their actions.

I don't follow Mr. Kerry around like a puppy dag. You do.

Press releases, don't interest me much. No matter who puts them out. They're just puppet shows.

Still nothing on the East End?

Nothing on the teachers strike?

Still carrying on with the pointless Latin?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

In corroboration of what you say about ''fundies'', I think that you''ll really get this video of the Rev. Dr. Stephen Sizer in conversation with George Galloway, MP very recently :

You need not reply if you find yourself in agreement because even if it does strongly back up any of your views re 'Christian Zionism', we both know that you can't possibly be seen to agree with me on anything.

BP changed it's name to ''BP'' several years ago & there was a big old ruction in Britain about it & they and their Neoliberal, Corporatist crap is international but I'm not ''using this as an excuse to ignore'' shit.

I don't follow your Dem VP either but 'truth will out' sometimes, right ? Furthermore, you won't ''follow .. press releases'' or anything else that does not fit your own frame because tho' you throw ''puppet show'' about - you are clearly totally blind to your own here.

Btw staccato questions in the hope that you'll catch me out on one of them - don't work on me I think ... but probably say more about you than me I suspect.

temet nosce ...

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

All I really caught you on was your refusal to elucidate, on events in the UK.

As for you link?

It doesn't really say much, nor does it get very specific about those groups and their inclusion of Ayn Paul among them.

There is of course a British history .

http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/fresno-zionism/antisemitism-in-the-uk-then-and-now/2013/06/09/

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

I'm not a ''racist'' or a ''jew hater'' and I'm not a Zionist Uber-Nationalist either !!! NOT being the latter does NOT simply make anyone the former, you shizoid binary-minded fool !! Anyone else would be censured, banned or have their comments removed for the bullshit that you keep getting away with here, ZenDork !

You are the one who is exposed ... with ever comment you make here but keep it up, it's May Day and I've taken the day off today and if the written words are too much for you, try this very interesting video :

fiat lux ...

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[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Anyone else behaving like you do here .. would be banned or reprimanded ! It is extremely revealing and inexcusable that you are not kept in check !! It also speaks volumes about the - 'mods' - on this forum !!!

multum in parvo ...

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[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

How about you ''ban'' yourself ?!!! So you ''can do this all day long'' can you ?!! That speaks even more volumes but even IF I have the day off .. I can't and neither would I want to BUT I can get back to your boring, bullshitting ass later ! So again, as per John Kerry's 'truth out' moment, I'll now append for you :

ad iudicium ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Re. ''the answer to neocon hegemony is racist isolation'' - nope !!! However it is revealing how you reduce things down to an extreme and 'Manichaean' binary !! Just like D & R right ?! Sheeeeeesh.

reductio ad absurdum ?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

''Kerry Grovels over Israeli ‘Apartheid’'', by Robert Parry :

''Secretary of State Kerry gets to say whatever half-truth or fiction comes into his head about Syria, Russia or other “designated villains,” but when he cites the inconvenient truth of Israeli “apartheid,” he must scramble as fast as he can to retract and apologize.''

You obviously live on this forum but I know for sure now that you are not a mod because IF you were you'd know to check the IP addresses - which would have totally disproved your recent lunacy here :

I have to join my better and far nicer half very soon, but you can rest assured that I plan to go to town on your sorry Hitlary lovin' ass on this thread over the next few days. Hell - if you can't keep up ... maybe I'll go dig up (or should that be dog up, lol ?) some of your old threads too.

multum in parvo ...

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

OK shad roe, is there ANY mention at all in any of that about all those christian fundies, that are actively supporting all those settlements in the hopes of hurrying revelations to fruition?

If not, it missed the most important point of all.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Thanx but busy now snooz - but I absolutely promise to get back re. your excellent point. Also fyi, see :

pax ...

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

I'm happy for you, that you find the puppet show so fascinating.

Did it say anything about Gog and Magog?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

The issue was ''Apartheid In Israel'' as alluded to by John Kerry, not Christian Zionism but you were right to bring up that matter and what ''puppet show'' do you mean ?!!! Kerry didn't say anything to the people he was speaking to about ''Gog and Magog'', did he ?!! Despite being ''so happy'' .. do you know who he was talking to btw, when he let the truth slip ?! Also fyi again, an extremely revealing & instructive link :

fiat lux ...

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Yep, so enjoy the puppet show.

Meanwhile, back in East London.

http://libcom.org/blog/community-champions-other-crack-report-after-working-caretaker-east-london-housing-estate-2

Perhaps you could explain, in clearer language?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Again, what ''puppet show'' ?! The ''two cheeks of the same ass'' snooz & MadDog ''show'' you mean ?!! It's really very revealing how as an 'Ex-Libertarian', u seem to look to a 'Libertarian Blog' source, right ?!

Thanx for a very Interesting but very long link but what's to explain when you yourself have NOT read it ? We can and will trade links all day, so now consider :

pacem in terris ...

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

The one you have been spamming the forum with.

Although I suppose, it's not the only one you are promoting.

I mean really?

Still with the Buchanan bullshit?

He's a bigot extraordinaire.

If you looked hard enough, you could probably find a suitable quote from David Duke too.

Did you check out the link to the East End?

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

You silly, one-dimensional, spamming-troll-enabling half-wit !!! I'm NOT ''still with the Buchanan bullshit'' but I do not have your parDisan affiliations either !! I've put up a lot of links and made a lot of comments and made well over a hundred forum-posts since I joined this forum - but what proportion d'you think are to do with PB ?!

Very few and only for the furtherance of Anti-War-&-Empire and for The 99% but of course you are too much on your own mission here to get that. I've some things to do here now but I'll be getting back to you and TheDog here and elsewhere later. In the meantime .. maybe you should calm down a li'l and consider the following on this OWS forum :

''There are latent majorities on numerous issues that do not see the light of day because the corporatists' toadies -- the political leaders in Congress -- make sure there are no hearings, no floor debates or votes. Predictably, pollsters do not poll questions that are not on the table, such as long-time majority support for full Medicare for everybody, so the public is kept from having its voice reflected. By the same token, politicians, marinated in commercial campaign money, do not campaign on these convergences between the left and right.

''It is a neglected responsibility of the mainstream media to expand reporting on left/right concurrences, especially where they move into action around the country. It is our responsibility as citizens to more visibly surface these agreements into a new wave of political reform. Guess what? It starts with left/right conversations where we live and work. Not even corporatists can stop you from getting that train moving.''

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Well, I think you should move to the US and make your stuff real.

You don't seem to give a shit about things in the UK, so why stay there?

Heck you could even petition to run Pat Buchanan!

Maybe even David Duke!!

You're obsession with Israel would fit right in with them.

To me, you're just using it as an excuse to ignore other issues.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Look at my reply and then the link and then ask yourself how your response was either relevant or even cogent !!! I've now made well over a hundred forum-posts (before I was apparently 'banned' recently from making them) and many, many hundreds of comments and links but .. only a very small proportion have ever been about Israel - so ''obsession'' really only reflects your own sensibilities, imo !! In the meantime your MadDog runs amok, unchecked on the forum with accusations of racism and invitations to suicide !

spero meliora ...

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

I don't know, but WTF does Nader have to do with the UK?

You should just move here and get it over with.

Would you like a listing of homes in the Detroit area?

And Chomsky? He of all people should realize he's actually dealing with libe(R)tarianism.

You probably missed it, but I've even shown it's spread into Canada.

The USA's next door neighbor and partner in raping the environment.

My guess is you were far too infatuated with puppet show.

So what about the strike?

http://www.occupy.com/article/uk-teacher-strikes-reveal-public-sector-unrest-trade-union-power-grows

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

I thought that the HuffPo, Ralph Nader piece had value from a OWS p-o-v but somehow I am not that surprised that your parDisan ass, couldn't deal with it !!!

The sexy li'l neologism you've created - ''libe(R)tarianism'' is supposed to convey that this Libertarian, Neoliberal Lunacy and Evil Corporate Fascism is somehow merely just a simple phenomenon of The Repugnant ; Repellent ; Retarded Republicans, right ?!!

WRONG snooz and sadly for anyone else subscribing to simplistic binary constructs .. your beloved Democrats as well as those other Class Traitors - The Labour Party in the UK - have also swallowed that Kool Aid & can you try to compute this fact now ?!

Great link re. the Teachers Strike and The May Day March turnout in The UK and I hope that it gets better, bigger and bolshier in the coming days but again you warble on about ''puppet show'' without specifying wtf you mean !!! Your other link elsewhere on this thread was also very strange !! Are you really sticking with it ?! Btw I did NOT use a Chomsky link .. I was just highlighting some ZD b-s lol.

I open, read, examine and comment on your links, so have you got the gonads to do the same now ?

fiat lux, fiat justitia, fiat pax ...

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

You really just have to move here.

You can't understand it, until you've actually met a dyed in the wool gun nutter.

A fundie who's lost all connection to reality.

A flake, who's been made truly flakier by FLAKESnews.

Since you can't connect@home, you should move across the pond and see it for yourself.

You can't find it on TV.

You can't find it on the web.

You have to experience it.

Until you do?

It's you who's drinking the koolaid.

Oh, and by the way, that's a term coined by the right wing.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Oh, ''right wing'' like you used to be you mean ?!!! I'm not totally sure what your reply had to do with the matter above but you seem to imply that ONLY Americans - are qualified to speak about The U$A !! I've also been advised that you like Thom Hartmann so it seems we actually do have some kind of common denominator here - as unlikely as that seems lol ! If true - I'll leave you with 2 from Thom & 1 from Abby :

ad iudicium ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

''Desmond Tutu Responds To John Kerry's 'Apartheid' Controversy'' (A Very Interesting Video) :

Keep it up with the fatuous replies, LoonDog - I've only got a few minutes now but much more time later.

You chose to revive a 2 year old post so as to take me on here. So how's that working out for you now ?

e tenebris, lux ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Who, is ''An anti-semite in OWS clothing'' ?!!!

What exactly has been - ''Revealed'' really ?!!

WTF .. are you actually talking about here ?!

You never open or comment on my links .. so don't you think that folk will think it is a touch hypocritical that you think to lay out 6 for me to comment upon ? The matter of Pat Buchanan is well argued on this thread already and I have clearly addressed that, so I suggest that interested readers peruse the thread.

I opened your first two links though and I rather liked Eliot Spitzer's piece and I'll encourage any and all readers to read that. I am not at all sure why you are using Bill Kristol's 'The Weekly Standard' link tho'.

I keep telling you to put up some links to ''Israeli Blue swastikas'' & you keep failing to do so and so I'll comment on that when I know wtf it is that you are talking about. Btw ''this OLD thread'' - had less than 40 comments and was pretty much forgotten until ZenDork chose to revive it and now it is seen as very relevant to current cicumstances - as your own comments above & also elsewhere on this thread show.

Furthermore, your reference TrashyManque' is a very mendacious conflation and I have no ''bots'' lol, as that's only people here who just don't like you &/or what you say. Finally, one link from me to finish but please do not call the author ''anti-semitic'' and I will be referring to this article extensively going forward, so it would be useful for you to familiarise yourself with the contents :

From which I quote : ''The official name for Israel's latest assault on Gaza is "Operation Protective Edge." A better name would be "Operation Déjà Vu." As it has on several prior occasions, Israel is using weapons provided by U.S. taxpayers to bombard the captive and impoverished Palestinians in Gaza, where the death toll now exceeds 500. As usual, the U.S. government is siding with Israel, even though most American leaders understand Israel instigated the latest round of violence, is not acting with restraint, and that its actions make Washington look callous and hypocritical in the eyes of most of the world.

''The explanation for America's impotent and morally bankrupt policy is the political clout of the Israel lobby. Barack Obama knows that if he were to side with the Palestinians in Gaza or criticize Israel's actions in any way, he would face a firestorm of criticism from the lobby and his chances of getting Congressional approval for a deal with Iran would evaporate.''

You really should stop siding with Likud and the right-wing alliance in power in Israel and their regular 'Lawn Mowing' Wars Of Choice On Gaza. There are options.

ad iudicium ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 months ago

Why have you posted this again ?

Do you have any answers to anything I said ?

Do you think repeating mendacities makes them veracities ?

minima maxima sunt ...

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