Forum Post: Retail Messaging: Why is your pocket empty?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 2:22 p.m. EST by larryathome
(161)
from Red Bank, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I am here to gather real information as the movement seems to have several messages and I would love to have a real time accounting of what people are really saying.
I would like answers to 2 simple questions.
- What is your current personal economic situation?
- What do you feel is the solution to the problem?
I have my ideas, and will respond with them in reply to each of your posts. I will share this online in other spots as well so that people gain an education on how people really feel.
1) No student loan debt. One very modest and affordable mortage on the house I live in. One rental property I own outright (no mortgage) and is paying for my primary home. I have about 8K in credit card debt from fixing up the rental. I should be done with that by mid next year just in time to buy another house at the tax sale to fix up and rent out. Full time job paying 38K a year with just a high school diploma to my name. Going back to school this spring, paying cash for it.
2) Solving this problem is as simple as people not getting themselves in over their heads. The only reason any of this happened is because people are willing to get themselves into debts and investments they do not understand. Nor do they keep worst-case-scenario plans on hand to weather any storms.
Some job since you post here all day long ;)
I'm sick and home and bored.
You are one of the lucky ones to have been well educated, but unfortunately the system has hurt people. I believe that a lot of lenders are very predatory and were especially in the start of the crisis. I applaud you for being well informed, but if I ask you, what do you think would be best to educate those to prevent this and what would you recommend to those starting with nothing?
Personally, I am focused on the fact that employment is difficult on people, as is many things related to debt as whole. I also would like to help as a citizen to protect the value of your investments as the mousing market is in trouble and has been now for a while.
My thinking is to work on the system within our rights as citizens to have control over the banking system. All of this can be achieved through Article V of the US constitution, but I feel that many people are not sure even what this is. Would you be interested in learning about this?
You are free to speak if you want. But you have to remember, in my family we all come from nothing. At 18 it's out on your ass and into the world to make it or not as you will. The children may inherit the parent's money after their death, but if and only if they have proven they will guard it wisely and invest it to grow for the next generation. And we have done well for ourselves.
As for people and education, well you can lead the horse but you can't make him drink. We have a free public education in this country that many refuse to take full advantage of. They do poorly in classes, cause disruption, drop out, and generally don't give a damn. And believe you me, giving out more freebies to the poor will not help with any of that. In face, it is my opinion that people are not hungry enough in this country. No hunger means no drive.
I believe that this is because the family unit has fallen apart in the two income needed society we live in and the children who used to be pressured from home to succeed are not able to receive that development enough. Families now work more hours to pay for debts, but do not have the same amount of time to push their children in the right direction.
Daennera wrote: We have a free public education in this country that many refuse to take full advantage of.END-------
This is true to an extent, but there is another side and I read about it here on OWS often. People educate on a loan, get a degree to find out a the government made a deal in the interests of corporations sending all the work they are educated for, to another nation.-----
That is not the peoples direct fault, that was a betrayal from high up. Should we allow that to continue?
You don't get educated by going into hock. Just because somebody bought that line of garbage, doesn't mean we excuse them from responsibility for it. Nobody betrayed anyone. All debt is a risk. You run the risk of not being able to pay one day for a myriad of reasons, bad job market, disability, etc.
so Daennera... have you figured out the mentality of those you are arguing with?
Retarded comes to mind.
they have the zero-sum mentality. They gov't took it away, sold it, stole it... that is why there is not enough for everyone...
the poor mentality, the gov't needs to take care of us... we need to take care of each other... we need to make sure that people can work, that there are jobs, etc, etc... this also comes from a lack of personal responsibility.
the middle class mentality. Get a good education, get a good job and wealth will come to you...
If the authority of education lied and said that a line of education was a wise decision, and it was not, but media said it was too, and the person educates themselves in that area to find that GATT moved all that industry to China, I think the people were seriously decieved on a very large scale by authorities.---
Should we allow that?------
All business is a risk, and fraud makes it riskier. Should we allow corporations and media to collude in order to commit fraud? Will education systems educate people to be aware and protect themselves from this?
Don't they already? I know a few people who didn't fall for the "college is the only way to succeed" line. What information did we get that was so different from everyone else?
The biggest deception was that high tech, IT, jobs were the way of the future. It turned out that was Indias future and that of China because GATT took the jobs over there.-----
What academia did not push was manufacturing skills. Now companies that need those skills are having a hard time finding people, and those educated in hight tech IT are without a job. GATT of the WTO enabled that.
"Personally, I am focused on the fact that employment is difficult on people. . .."
??? Did you mean "UNemployment"?
That is one of the things that I am focused on, but the root cause obviously comes from the fact that the banks control the investments. That creates an environment for outsourcing as companies are merely there to earn a profit. In turn, they use their capital to influence our elections while the unemployed cannot fund their voice to put a stop to this. I am focused on Article V of our constitution to bring about campaign finance reform. If you are interested in learning about this do continue this thread.
Starvation is a visceral reason to focus on the reasons for unemployment.
Daennera wrote: 2) Solving this problem is as simple as people not getting themselves in over their heads.END-----
Perhaps when banks were offering too low interests, maybe 10 years ago, that simple solution would work, but now the corruption may just remove their head and leave with it.
I wish that it were as simple as self discipline, but how many people lost their jobs that in normal times would have been secure only to be straddled with debt that they normally would have had a great handle on. Corruption as a whole is what brought down our system and our competitive edge that has worked so well in our history, but it seems that the competitive edge is dying a painfully slow death
Ideally you shouldn't have ANY debt, so that if you lose your job it won't matter. (You can live off your accumulated savings until times improve again.)
Ideally, yes, but most people do not have savings and they have debt. It is not that easy anymore. 40 years ago, sure, it was much easier. Now, the vast majority of people retire broke.
As a judge in a criminal court would say to justify a sentencing, "Due to a practice and pattern of" corruption you are sentenced to live under corporate rule for eternity, and put up with this corruption UNLESS you unify and demand an article 5 convention.
very true!
The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans (actually, more like 98%), saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively.
The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.
The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. In 1928, the rich were already way ahead. Still, they were given huge tax breaks. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated 44 percent of all United States wealth. The upper, middle, and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the lower majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed.
Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, some US wealth was gradually transferred back down to the majority. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. By 1976, the richest 1 percent held less than 20 percent. The lower majority held the rest. This was the recovery. A partial redistribution of wealth. Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own 40 percent of all US wealth. The upper, middle, and lower classes are sharing the rest. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.
The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible.
No redistribution. No recovery.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
How about using article V and calling a dang convention to change the bought and sold status quo of our elections so that we can pull off change based on the real vote of the people? This will take some years to pull off, but we have no choice in the matter.
It's worth a try.
I am working with a group that is pursuing this through several ways. well actually several groups, its either article v or leave the country for me and will give the fight a few years. Remember, members of the military that are told to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign or domestic in their oath of office. Send me a message privately.
Spend your money as wisely as possible. Especially in middle and lower class communities. Check the Fortune 500 list and limit your support of high profit/low labor industries (Hollywood, pro sports, energy, credit, pharmaceutical, cable, satelite, internet advertising, video, and music, cell phone, high fashion, jewelry, ect.). Cancel all but one credit card for emergencies only. Call the provider and demand a lower rate. Be persistent. You may get it. (By the way. I gave this piece of advice long before NBC. I'm not looking for kudos. I'm telling you that NBC is directly affiliated with the credit industry. They could have given you this piece of advice years ago. Instead, they stood by and allowed their parent company, sister companies, and network sponsors to RIP YOU OFF. Even now, they give the occasional 'good guy' financial advice only because they are pressured to do so. They carefully balance every piece of 'good guy' advice with their primary goal to GET YOUR MONEY. Which is why their 'good guy' advice is so often followed by a plug for one of their sister companies, sister channels, network sponsors, or coorporate partners. For example: They tell you to pay down your credit card debt. Good advice. They should have given it years ago. Then, they tell you to GET MORE CREDIT CARDS and use them. Bad advice. One week Jean Chatzky tells you to avoid the 'free credit report' scam because it is always followed by a monthly service charge. Good advice. They should have given it years ago. The following week she stands by as her paid fellow advisor Carmen Wong strongly implies for you to have your credit monitered on a monthly basis and praises a caller for doing so. Bad advice. This is actually a plug for one of their network sponsors, coorporate partners, or parent company. The praise is nothing but a psychological trick. DON'T FALL FOR IT. Don't take ANYTHING they say at face value. Instead, read between the lines. Carefully weigh every piece of 'good guy' advice given against their primary goal. THEY WANT YOUR MONEY.). If you need a cell phone, then do your homework and find the best deal on a local pre-pay. You may be able to get one for as little as $10 a month. Don't text. The charge may seem low at the time but their profit margins are obscene. If you want home internet access, then check for a locally based provider. They can be found in nearly every city nationwide. Otherwise, use the least expensive big name provider, and share accounts whenever possible. If you need to search, then use the less popular search engines. They usually produce about same results anyway. Don't pay for any internet download. Their profit margins for such data transfers are obscene. Don’t pay to see any blockbuster movie. Instead, wait a few months and rent the DVD from a local store, borrow it, or buy it USED. Then loan it to a friend or family member. If you prefer the outing, then choose a film produced by the lesser known studeos with lower paid actors. If you want to see a big name game or event, then watch it in a local bar, club, or at home on network TV. Don’t buy any high end official merchandise and don’t support the high end sponsors. If its endorsed by a big name celebrity, then don’t buy it. If you can afford a new car, then make an exception for GM, Ford, and Dodge. If they don’t increase their market share soon, then a lot more people are going to get screwed out of their pensions and/or benefits. Of course, you must know by now to avoid those big trucks and SUVs unless you truly need one for its utility. Don’t be ashamed to buy a foreign car if you prefer it. Afterall, those with the most fuel efficient vehicles consume a lot less foreign oil. Which accounts for a pretty big chunk of our trade deficit. Its a reasonable trade-off. Anyway, the global economy is worth supporting to some extent. Its the obscene profit margins, trade deficits, and BS from OPEC that get us into trouble. Otherwise, the global economy would be a good thing for everyone. Just keep in mind that the big 3 are struggling and they do produce a few smaller reliable cars. Don’t frequent any high end department store, mall, or any business in a newly developed center or upper class community. By doing so, you encourage greedy developers, make them richer, and draw vital support away from industrial areas and away from the middle and lower class communities. Instead, support the local retailer and the less popular shopping centers. Especially in lower or middle class communities. If you can afford to buy a home, then do so. But go smaller and less expensive. Don’t get yourself in too deep and don’t buy into the newly developed condos or gated communities. Instead, find a modest home in a building or neighborhood at least 20 years old. If you live in one of the poorer states, then try to support its economy first and foremost.
You are on the right track, but one thing in all 3 of your posts that I did not notice was any mention was Article V of our constitution. You have carefully told a story, but in the event that your reach of saving money and being a wiser consumer falls on deaf ears as it always does, I believe we have a recourse as citizens to get the money out. What is your take on Article V with the purpose to hold a convention to amend the constitution?
To tell you the truth, I have zero faith in our leaders and almost zero faith in our society as a whole. Almost zero faith in reforming much of anything.
I've been posting here obsessively for two weeks. A few years ago, I wrote a 30 page essay and posted it 20,000 times all over the world. The entries above are copied from it. I've called talk radio over 600 times. Reaching thousands with each call.
I have just one realistic goal: To make whatever dent possible.
Of course, Article V could be a game changer. But at this point, it would take an act of God.
I think this time, the will of the people are taking over. If you are interested in a game changer, the group that I am working with are heavy with resources and resolve. I cannot blame you in the least for your sentiment. That is why I call on you to stand with the people that are working on article v to make damn sure it happens. It is a life mission for some of the people that I have recently met and now I bring my Internet marketing experience to bear in the equation. We will get the ground swell on it over time enough to bring about change, even if it is not before the next election, it is about seed change, alter and abolish. Contact me direct if you are interested in getting active. You write well and could be valuable in the fight.
If you create a page with more info, I will certainly check it out and save it.
you can come to a few different links that we have or are sharing with others. one is http://foa5c.org/ and we just started another forum with a lot of information. http://www.articlevconvention.org or you also can find me through this pdf. http://www.articlevmeeting.info/letter.pdf
This is what the masses seem unable to grasp:
If we replace our current leaders with human beings, they will sell out just as far as the current bunch. Our leaders weren't born sold out. Wall Street executives weren't born evil. They were born human. With a natural instinct to gather and store for survival. A natural instinct to care for family and community.
When modern society was formed, we began to sell out our natural instincts. Survival turned into survival with a little more elbow room. Then survival with a little more elbow room and a nice view. Then survival with a little more elbow room, a nice view, and something pretty to hang around our neck.
Fast forward a few thousand years. With the industrial revolution came mechanized transportation, air conditioning, and television.
We had become somewhat spoiled. Somewhat motivated. Still relatively down to Earth. Still modest enough to appreciate one another, care for one another, and work towards a common goal.
Along the way, the potential for increased personal wealth became more and more intoxicating. Now, just about everyone wants to be rich. They want it so badly, they are willing to sell out basic morality to attain it. They WILL sell out basic morality if given the opportunity.
How can I be so sure? That's easy. Human nature plus years of corrupt influence plus opportunity.
Mother Nature did not plan for modern society. She did not plan on such corrupt influence. She never intended for any of us to seek or attain extreme personal wealth. We simply can not process the concept without being corrupted by it. Without compromising basic morality.
Extreme wealth is the single greatest corrupt influence of modern society. With every 'zero' on the paycheck, our basic instincts to care for family and community are compromised.
Those of you who still aren't convinced, consider this:
If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, and take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, would you do it?
If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, OR take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, which would you choose?
Not only is the greatest concentration of wealth in world history the single greatest underlying cause of economic instability. The very concept of extreme personal wealth is the most corrupt influence in the history of mankind.
I speak the ugly truth.
There will be no government "of the people" and "for the people". Never again.
Be on the lookout for commercial brainwash plots on TV. They are written into nearly every scene of nearly every show. Most cater to network sponsors, coorporate partners, and parent companies. Especially commercial health care. In particular, high profit pharmaceuticals and excessive medical testing. These plugs are countless, calculated, and VERY well written. They have commercial brainwashing down to a science. DON'T FALL FOR IT. Get off the couch and take care of your own body the way nature intended. There is no substitute. If you must see a doctor, then DEMAND that he/she give you more than 5 minutes of their undivided attention. Otherwise, dispute their unreasonable charges. Be prepared with written questions about your condition and get them answered one at a time. If they refuse, then dispute their unreasonable charges. If they prescribe excessive medical testing, then ask if they personally own the equipment or if they are paid a commission for each test. If they find nothing new or signifigant, then dispute their unreasonable charges. If they prescribe a pharmaceutical, then ask for a generic. Better yet, concider a change in lifestyle or simple tolerance. If they still recommend the name brand pharmaceutical, then ask about any financial ties or conflict of interest. If they get offended, then dispute their unreasonable charges and consider a new doctor. If you must drug away your sniffles, worries, jitters, aches, and pains, then at least do your homework. Be aware of the possible side-effects ahead of time. Don't be surprised to find yourself back a week or two later feeling worse. In which case, you should dispute their unreasonable charges. If you are diagnosed with another medical condition, then ask your doctor what he/she has done to rule out those possible side-effects. Otherwise, dispute their unreasonable charges. Don't let any greedy doctor treat you like a number, make you wait an hour, or rush you out of their office. Otherwise, dispute their unreasonable charges. Don't fall for this CRAP that doctors have no choice but to over-book their time or over-charge their patients because of a high overhead. ITS A LIE. YOUR DOCTOR IS MOST LIKELY A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE. The same goes for their bogus claim to over-test so many of their patients because they are afraid of missing something and being sued for it. THAT IS ANOTHER FLAT-OUT LIE. Afterall, if this were true, then it would only explain some of the unnecessary testing. NOT THE OBSCENE CHARGES. It also wouldn't explain their own financial ties directly to the manufacturers of said testing equipment. Thats right. Most doctors hold stock in the very same companies that produce that equipment. Its another conflict of interest. So don't fall for their CRAP. Demand their undivided attention and respect. Afterall, they took an oath. If you have the opportunity before being admitted, then check the record of your hospital. Check to see if they have been investigated or sued for providing unnecessary treatment, excessive medical testing, or fraudulent billing. Dozens have already been caught doing so. Do all of the above regardless of your coverage. Don't force your employer to cover the obscene and often fraudulent charges of a corrupt health care industry. By doing so, you make the problem worse. Keep your guard up when watching ANY talk show. These people are not your friends. They are not your advocates. They are paid actors hired to get your attention and your money. Some of them are also executive producers (Oprah Winfrey, Ellen Degeneres, and Dr Phil.). Nearly every word, smile, and stupid joke is rehearsed ahead of time. Including those which take place so often during what appear to be 'technical oversights' (Today Show. Even their stage hands are mixed in behind the scenes so that you can hear them laugh at every stupid joke.). Its all fake. Its all calculated. These people are not trying to make the world a happy place. They are trying to entertain you only because their marketing studies have shown that you are more likely to drop your guard and support their sponsors. Nearly every segment is about marketing some over-priced product or service. They will use any excuse to plug a gadget, fashion item, travel destonation, credit card, university, drug, medical test, surgical procedure, movie, TV show, book, magazine, song, website, ect. Almost all of it over-priced. Almost all of it resulting in higher profits for their sponsors, partners, and parent companies. DON'T FALL FOR IT.
Big business is fine on occasion depending on their product, ethics, employment, profit margins, and profit sharing. Do your homework. If they are screwing up our economy or society, then don't pay them for it. If you want to support any legitimate charity, then do so directly. Never support any celebrity foundation. Don't be fooled by the sale of baby photos, lies about percentage of income donated, or praise from other well known public figures. Celebrity foundations are CRAP. They spend most of their funding on PR campaigns, exotic travel, and super high end accomodations for themselves. Thats right. Filthy rich public figures have been jet-setting the world in the name of 'humanity' for years. Riding in personal jets, staying in super-exclusive resorts, and living it up in exotic locations around the world the likes of which most people could never afford even if their lives depended on it. They bring along agents, advisors, publicists, hair, make-up, wardrobe, lighting, and photo crews who are also in it for themselves. They are paid six or seven figures for their part to schedule, manage, document, showcase, praise, and publicize the 'good will' of said public figures and their respective industries. Every possible expense is passed of as 'incidental' or 'necessary' and billed right back to some 'foundation' named after said public figure and/or respective industry. Every possible tax deduction is claimed. Which are incredibly vague and diverse thanks to our sold-out government. Deals are cut with major networks who agree to praise the 'good will' or 'humanitarian' effort of said public figures and plug their latest commercial project around the same time. Others from around the world pick up the story and save these industries billions in advertising every year. Resulting in higher profits and paychecks for the 1% club. When its all said and done more wealth is transfered from poor to rich. NOT the other way around. So don't support any charity named after a living celebrity. Don't be fooled or inspired by any photo you see in a magazine, any clip on TV, any affiliation, or any short term short sighted progress report. Instead, go to Charitywatch.org and look up a top rated charity to support your favorite cause. Its all there. For example: 'Habitat For Humanity' is a top rated charity. They have been for many years. They operate with a low overhead, volunteer workforce, and donated materials. They have built homes for the less fortunate in nearly every city nationwide. Including New Orleans. They do so as we speak. No similar effort can match their progress hour for hour or dollar for dollar. So there is no legitimate reason to support a slower, less efficient effort represented by a filthy rich Hollywood actor who flies in on a personal jet, takes most of the credit, and makes a deal with a major network for plugs just days before the premier of his latest film or DVD release. By doing so, you support not only the inefficient effort, but also the filthy rich actor. Concentrating more wealth and dumbing down our society further in the process. Instead, support 'Habitat For Humanity'. Its not perfect. It is affiliated with some big business. However, it is MUCH more efficient, effective, and less corrupt than 'Make It Right'. The difference is profound. In general, support the little guy as much as possible and the big guy as little as possible.
I have to empathize with you due to the fact that so many of my friends are in the same position you are. They are thrown in jail when they fall behind on their payments often to find out that their payments did not go to the desired source. Reforming the system will be difficult, but a system with economic justice will probably fix this issue for you because the level of opportunity will be better for success in this country.
Some friends of mine are working on a strategy using our constitution for economic justice. Reply if you are interested in learning more.
If it cost a nickle to go around the world I would have to stay right here. The solution: reboot with a new operating system.
You are right on the money. I do believe that our only recourse is calling for a convention under article v of the constitution. Working now with a focus group on building support for this. Send me a message or reply to this post if you are interested in helping to take action.
1.) debt free ... fiat in the bank ... house title in hand ... in the process of collecting silver 2.) end the fed ... central banks ... return the power to create money to the people.
I am so glad to see that successful people are looking to be a part of the solution. It is what this country is all about and it gives me great feeling. Ending the fed and the central banks would be awesome and would fix most of our problems, but I believe that unless we get the money out of politics, that will never happen since many believe that Kennedy took a bullet over this issue. I believe that we need to express our rights that congress has violated by granting us a convention under Article V of the constitution since there are hundreds of documented requests from 49 states requesting a convention. In a convention, it all falls on the delegates to act and congress has no power to intervene. Send me a private message if you are interested in helping with Article V to amend the constitution. I am part of a focus group dedicated to fighting to get a constitutional convention to amend the constitution.
1) 32k this year combining Ebay & Etsy, 12K as a firearms instructor (11K) last year, 19K pension military, and about 2k from Beans & Corn sharecropping. We also own a duplex we rent in Chatham IL for 970.00 per side. That's it for income and that is exact except that Etsy and Ebay can fluctuate. I also have sold a few dig items (metal detector) (edit) This is all BEFORE taxes! So its gross income This does not include my wife's salary, she said its no ones business so Ill leave it off. 2) I am happy with my financial status and my ability to create my own cash flow, but I do agree with you guys on the outsourcing. That shit is bad!
(edit) I owe 63k on my primary residance, the duplex is paid for. I owe 3k on my 09 Wrangler and 1400.00 on my VTX 1300c. I am 36 years old if that is important.
This is basically important, because you do have investments into the duplexes that are directly hit by the housing market. What will the value be of those investments in the future if we cannot stabilize the housing market? My belief is that we can fix all this through measures as citizens that the constitution specifically guarantees. Outsourcing, yes, that is bad, but enabled by bought and paid for politicians.
So how do we end the bought and paid for politicians? By using campaign finance reform as an issue and using Article V of the constitution to get it to happen. If you want to know more about article v keep this thread going.
My personal economic situation is actually very good. I have a good job, and I am completely debt free.
I don't know if there is a single solution to our problems. I do feel that there is an obvious place to begin. Here is my rant:
Campaign Finance Reform. Boom!
All of the successful protest movements of the 20th century in the U.S. had a very clear and concise goal. The civil rights movement had integration. The counter culture movement of the 60's wanted to end the Vietnam War. The Women's Suffrage movement wanted women to vote. The Anti-Saloon league wanted prohibition of alcohol.
Wayne Wheeler of the Anti-Saloon league, was known for insisting on a very clear and singular goal to the exclusion of all else, a constitutional amendment prohibiting the sale of alcohol. His model for political influence through demonstration has been replicated over, and again. The prohibition movement might have been misguided, but no one could argue that it wasn't successful.
Could it be, that it is time for OWS to focus? I believe many more people would become active, if a singular goal could be devised.
Campaign Finance Reform!
Many Americans could line up behind getting the big money out of politics, I think.
What I am saying is that, imho, OWS needs a clear goal, complete with a kick ass sound bite! Americans only respond to sound bites.
Any good sound bite is concise, crunchy, and tastes good with ketchup.
“BUY BACK the VOTE.”
Aha! We are in complete agreement with the issue of campaign finance reform. Unfortunately, the politicians who are bought and paid for will not legislate their own demise. Our way around this is stated very clearly in the constitution and I believe that this is our only solution available. It is found in Article V of the constitution. Congress has not granted the convention for proposing amendments, but their are enough requests from enough of the states to force congress to grant it.
I am going to provide you some useful links. Even though you are doing well, I am happy to see that you understand that everyone else is suffering and greatly appreciate the support.
http://articlevconvention.org http://foa5c.org/ http://www.articlevmeeting.info/letter.pdf
If you are on Skype, you can send me your id in a message and I would love to chat and discuss this option and get your opinion.
If you do not have skype, it is free, http://www.Skype.com
Agreed. Article five is brilliant, but it still depends on politicians. Politics is all about propaganda. Big$$ provides politicians with big propaganda. Most Americans are not as aware of the issues as you and I are. I believe that until we can reign in the big$$ propaganda mill, nothing else can be achieved. I believe we must force the issue into the election cycle, over and over, until it sticks. I'm completely with you on article five, though.
Would you be interested in working with a focus group that would spread Article V and educate others about it? We have reason to demand it as 49 states have made a total of 400 requests and congress has still not granted a convention. It could become a legal battle, but with enough support, I believe it will happen. It is more or less our last recourse to bring change. Politicians cannot legally block this, thus a convention would allow us to alter and abolish with a campaign finance reform amendment. Further amendments could also be tabled as their are no restrictions in the constitution about substance and congress has zero say in what gets tabled in a convention.
I appreciate what you are doing. I love that you are doing it, but honestly, I am busy pursuing the agenda of campaign finance reform. I'll tell you what. I will work the conventions of article five into my work.
If you think about it in theory, yes that is the first goal, but you will never get the politicians to make it happen since it would cut off their campaign coffers. You have to use the power as individuals to do it. You will never get the politicians to comply by voting for it in congress. Heck, congress cannot even get a simple bill through now. The only way to get the money out is to have the people take the money out through a convention. That is why we are convention or bust, because the system will never produce it.
I'm simply looking ahead to the upcoming election year. I agree with you as a point of political philosophy.
Yep, I understand that much, but this will not happen in any results from the upcoming elections. It is because whoever gets in is a product of the system regardless of party and I empathize more with democrats, but sit in the middle like most people. I am neither hard left or hard right. The compelling reason for article v is exactly as said, the ones that you have supported are also bound to their donors, even though you work towards getting them elected based on promises. My faith in politicians campaigning on promises is nearly zero.
Well, you are talking about the political system. I am talking about the effectiveness of a protest movement in propaganda and support. I have no faith in politicians either.
I agree, in fact, I will be at Occupy Red Bank and also at OWS, but my belief is that it is article v or bust, because the bought and paid for media is trying to discredit the movement.
I agree that article five is a little known tool. I just don't know if you can get enough people to understand it, to use it as a core issue for the movement.
This is actually a core focus of the focus group that I am involved in. We are also using Internet marketers like myself to establish the social media campaign to set this up. Private message me. I will reply in a few hours when I get home, perhaps we can have a conversation on voice.
Phil, article 5 is the only route to election reform. Congress and the corporations would not have done what they did if they were ready to reverse it.-----
Now, here is completely valid and intrinsically related fact. Without a faithful media, people have no way to understand the issues they vote on at elections. To deal with that, article v is also the only solution.
I'm not so sure that all those things could be achieved so easily under Article Five, but it's worth a try. The hardest part will be explaining it to people.
This is radical strategy, but it is the ultimate legal strategy in every way.-
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
Note step 3.5. and see the link there relating to the national response to this question. Which mother or father in this nation will ignore or pass up the real opportunity to assure their child will grow into a nation that holds high and honors understanding that can create; forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting their life, their liberty and their pursuit of happiness?
I'm sure it would be very effective. I have a singular goal, though. I want campaign finance reform to be a key election issue. That is my sole aim.
I'm for that too, in a big way, but I see congress would not have acted as they have if they did not feel they could get away with it.------
There is no national ballot referendum of issues ever so democracy on that level has no platform. Only representatives matter there and they already screwed us.
Article V takes all demands into a 3rd arena of state ratification by democratic action and takes congress out of the self serving/finance relationship with corporations.
Booyaa. Kicking it, stateside.
I see lots of coordination working secretly, jointly, to destroy the constitution from several fronts. Non profit corporations dedicated to the constitution and bill of rights preservation, refuse to be logical in their approach and actually diss the use of article 5 while refusing to discuss it.------
Prove this for yourself on a level. Do a google site search of movetoamend.org and bordc.org for article v. Not one mention on either sites. "Move" is a term meaning "motion", which is done in court. Nonsense! They have a petititon with 70k signatures perhaps and it is NOT official nor does it have any legal weight at all. bordc.org has a .pdf "starter kit" that asks local government supervisors and councils to see that "law enforcement" respects civil rights.--------
oathkeepers.org banned me from their web site forum for seeking to promote the notion of citizens discussing the virtues of the constitution as a social basis for involvement of military personel in outreach. They advocate NOT violating certain rights and never talk about "defense of the constituiton" as the soldiers oath calls for.
Hi Phil! Glad your still active here.
Philpux wrote: Agreed. Article five is brilliant, but it still depends on politicians.END------
People think that because of misinfo, but the law in reality has an alternative that is under state control. Now, the politicians have to live near those they screw. That becomes more dicey for them. Then, when the federal p[oliticians ignore the constitution and it needs defense, we can and SHOULD go to the military. Scroll down to the "soldiers oath" on this page.---
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
Let me show you the misinformation details.
"Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, ----shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments,------ which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."
The text between dashes describes the conditions where congress SHALL call a convention. The sentence following between ** says, MAY be proposed. Weak inconsequential language compared to shall. All this means the states can exclude congress. Congress has no legal voice or role when 3/4 of the states are in agreement ratifying amendments.
Now, here is the misinformation. Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Notice the first sentence of the 3rd paragraph. This is intentional misrepresentation, pretending improper interpretation. Corporation.
1) $130,000 in student debt 2) Reduce my student debt to the cost that the education should have been.
I understand so well where you are coming from. I am in a situation of having a part time underpaid job and a small Internet startup that basically funds day to day living, but with that much debt, I would be in serious trouble.
Ok, so you have a policy idea, but have you ever heard of Article V?
If not, here are some useful links: http://foa5c.org/ http://articlevconvention.org http://articlevmeeting.info/letter.pdf
If you have Skype, send me a private message with your ID, if not, go to http://www.skype.com and set up a free account and private message me your id. I can give you some background if you are interested.
can you send me a private message?
Absolutely
Wow! That's heavy. I can only say this. A dual corruption, giving money to military and taking it from the people have many, many disturbing forms.-----
The cost of your education and the timing of it within the effects of GATT are a very serious issue. Many spend as you have to find the industry the educated for gone to China.
should have thought about it yourself at the beginning.
now you want me to pay for it.
Im not asking you to pay for anything. I am working my ass off to pay it and provide for my family. But if someone asks me whats hurting me financially, I will tell them. I had to pay out of state tuition to Oregon, a state in which i lived most of my life but because I moved away in high school the didnt grant me in state tuition. Should have filed as an illegal alien. I now work in oregon, and pay taxes in oregon to the same system that said i had to pay double for tuition. So do i want you to pay it back, NO. I want the school/state to pay it back. Make no mistake, this society we live in requires a college degree to do any kind of well paying job. Even bank tellers have to have a business degree. But why is school so expensive? Professors get paid shitty, where does the money go?
Advertising -
1) Huge student debt (100,000 USD), college degree, planning on going back to school for an MBA or Law degree, living and working in Beijing China in order to gain valuable experience, trying to save for my future plans, and paying my debt.
2) I think my situation is indirectly affected by the current state of the economy, but I do not feel that there is any solution that can fix my situation except for me to continue working and pay off some debt while gaining more experience. I am not in the same boat as many others who lost their homes and who can't find work, but I am behind them. It is for the betterment of America to make the 1% more responsible for their actions.
Yes the debt problem is a challenge. It causes a lot of pressure, but I think that gives me drive to do and think more in order to make it out of this situation.
I enjoy my time in China and feel that it will give me an advantage in the future.
How about that amendment process? Do you think we need to amend the constitution in order to fix the current problems? Messing with the constitution is always a huge controversy. An amendment to the constitution in regard to the financial structure of our country will be a tough sell since the very people that benefit the most from the current structure are the ones who have the politicians in their pockets.
I'm all ears..........
Under Article V of the constitution, it is stated that if 2/3 of the states request a convention from the congress, they must grand us a convention. I am not personally worried about the process since the ratification process takes 3/4 of the states once proposed amendments are on the table. I believe that at minimum 3/4 of all americans would love to see the money removed from our political system as a starter so democracy would be fair for all individuals. I would like to share some information with you. http://foa5c.org/ , http://www.articlevconvention.org and http://www.articlevmeeting.info/letter.pdf
If you would like to talk direct, contact me with your Skype ID and we can chat. I am working with a group focused on promoting Article V as our ultimate democratic right under the constitution and forcing congress to grant it where they have been in violation of the constitution for decades.
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Seen all of em. Great theories, but I am pursuing Article V as a way for us to legally bring about change that we need. Perhaps you are familiar with it, but I support it along with a focus group, but I don't discredit Zeitgeist. I just feel that targeting is our most important message and we can go around the government to alter and abolish because it is in the constitution that we can do so.