Forum Post: Resource Based Economy It Is
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 5:37 p.m. EST by WeCanDoBetter
(2)
from Cedar Rapids, IA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
So, now that the truth about Greece is finally coming out (too deep in the hole to simply pass the national debt to its citizen), now comes about the 50% debt forgiveness plan and get this: a restructure of the European banks with yet another bailout! This is pure madness. One bailout after another, announced one little tidbit at a time as if people were too dumb to piece together the imminent collapse of the entire financial system worldwide. I say it's time to get rid of the monetary system altogether and adopt a resource based economy as outlined here: http://thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project/resource-based-economy. We need to figure out the transition details, but the vision is quite clear.
These ideas and information may help with the transition details: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRVRbpJMP0
Also here are some things we all can do now on a personal level to create change and move forward productively:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXdmNFNqaQc
Technology is the impetus for the dawning of the new era. For the first time all of humanity can instantaneously communicate on a global scale. We can control our birth rate with the use of safe effective birth control. We have the resources to feed and house the world’s population. Most all human suffering is manmade or worsened by greed and lack of empathy. Technology has also given us the ability choose our destiny. We can continue the current trajectory: depletion of resources, growing inequalities and war. Or, we can choose a new way.
The path to enlightenment, equality, and sustenance is attainable with a united movement. Part of that movement is time bank. Time bank is a network of humanity. Organized on line. Completely transparent. All inclusive. Hour in. Hour out. That’s it. No person’s hour is more or less valuable than another.
A worldwide time bank can be started now. With enough participation it can catalyze the transition from the current corrupt monetary system to a society where money is irrelevant and each person is valued. Fear and greed will paralyze this movement. Hope and imagination can propel it.
Time is the Substance from which I am made. – Jorge Luis Borges
That's an interesting idea, what exactly is a "time bank"? Can you explain a little more? How would we go about implementing it?
From Wikipedia - Time banking is a pattern of reciprocal service exchange that uses units of time as currency. It is an example of an alternative monetary system. A time bank, also known as a service exchange, is a community that practices time banking. The unit of currency is valued at an hour's worth of any person's labor.
There are several working time banks in existence. Implementation can start locally. Start a time bank in your area and encourage people to join. A communal garden is a great way to get people started as the first project must be communal as no one person will have any time credits to spend on day one.
I imagine a future system that allows time bank users to attend classes for "free" (of course the teacher would get time credit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtWRYXKKL0A&feature=share
At 63 & dizzy from the merry-go-round may i suggest 1st a bit of humor w/Clarke & Dawe European Debt Crisis YTube and then a visit to www.unitinghumans.com for a tour w/great info about a Resource Based Economy. Just think, your generation gets to graduate & finally say "take this job & shove it" This won't happen overnight but it's time for science & technology (used wisely) to take their rightful place in society. If this older conditioning (me) can open up to a NEW idea so should you guys. Your kids/grandkids will thank u instead of saying WTF!!! Love - Mamma D "^_^"
At 63 & grandma & looking 4 intelligent answers i came across Jacque Fresco's idea of a Resource Based Economy via ZAddendum. From my own experience on this dizzying merry-go-round i can tell u we're not gonna fix the money system as it's dying. "Everything that has a beginning has an end" -Matrix May i suggest 1st a bit of humor with Clarke & Dawe w/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5QwKEwo4Bc and then w/some solutions http://www.unitinghumans.com/ Just think, your generation gets to graduate to the next level & FINALLY say "take this job & shove it" I LOVE ALL OF YOU, stay strong & keep moving forward. Mamma D "^_^"
There is no transition. This may be hard to hear but here it is. It is time to get out of the city. Spend the rest of your money on seeds and food stores. Plan a new location with open land to build and plant. Every protester might be angry this is true. However, we have all proven to be Buddha, Gandhi and Jesus. It is time to occupy away from all major cities but still together.
This idea sounds good in theory, but this potentially seems like a top-down system of total control that Mao or Stalin would have been proud of.
There is no democracy in such a system. There is no voting, there is no voice for you or for me, there is no contribution of ideas from all of the people in terms of how things are run. Everything has already been pre-determined by computers.
A 'computer program' decides how resources are allocated, where you can live, where you can't live, and also decides the 'carrying capacity' of the Earth and its various regions. I ask you this: if the carrying capacity is calculated at 500,000,000, then what is to happen to the 6 billion of us that are here already?
Also who will the programmers be? The programmers are the ones who will have the ultimate control over peoples' lives - what resources are used and how much, how they are allocated, what jobs are needed or not.
I agree totally that the system we currently have is not working. I also agree that we must change our relationship to the environment if we are to survive, using technology.
But this system sounds like we are just transferring control from 1% to computers, that will be run by elites anyhow if such a society were to exist.
As soon as capitalism started delivering its punishments to the greedy, the capitalists threw it aside:
http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/10/saving-capitalists-from-capitalism-sustainable-economics/
They wanted bailouts, which effectively socialized the entire cost of their corruption onto the backs of the entire nation. So, they wanted capitalism when it rewarded them, but ran from it when it punished them.
The bailout solution does nothing to create a new sustainable economics system. The old system that was debt-based was doomed to failure from the beginning, as it was nothing more than a Ponzi Scheme:
http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/10/the-great-ponzi-scheme/
You cannot endlessly expand an economy through creating more debt. At some point debt load maxes out, and those who jump in last (for home loans, etc.) all lose.
None of our politicians right now are talking about sustainable economics -- about setting the foundation for a system that can endure. Capitalism was not the problem here; debt-based Capitalism was the problem. It allowed us all to live far beyond our real means and to be more generous in our social programs than what we could really afford by pushing the price of those programs off to future generations.
But the future has arrived.
--David Haggith
Exactly, but we need a comprehensive strategy that implements all these demands, including this one, at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Hmmm. Resource-based. Sounds kinda like you want to control all the resources .... Including, of course, human resources.
Can you describe the basics of the system in one breath?
Here is an 8-minute video explaining it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIMy0QBSQWo
Technocratic central planning .... sheesh.
a humane system designed to provide sustainable abundance to all people by implementing technology toward social concerns.
I get from that exactly nothing.
Does it include property rights, absence of coercion?
Sorry, that was the shortest way to explain it.
An RBE requires a completely different train of thought on multiple topics.
Ok, lets see.
Absence of coercion: When people have an abundance (excess) of things they need there is no point in coercion. Coercion is only necessary when competing over things which are scarce.
The RBE advocates using technology in order to create abundance. Technology is currently impeded due to profit-driven competition and the use of money. We have technologies such as automation and cybernation which can 'free' much of the labor and service sector jobs. However in a monetary system this will be perceived as outsourcing to machines and cause unemployment. Since most people can't survive in this system without money, that would be bad.
But in a RBE there is no need for money because of the abundance provided by technology. This in effect will free up much of the forced labor leaving only a few positions which can be filled on a voluntary basis.
Property rights: property would neither be required nor will property be seized in such a system. The system advocates providing access abundance to the things we need. e.g. How a library works Many things can be rented and shared significantly cutting down the resources required for such things. Combine this with designing products to be sustainable to the best of our ability and much of the waste generated will be cut down. Landfills won't continue to grow in size and ecosystems will not be destroyed to provide inferior products.
Hope this clears up a few points
When are we going to get this abundance you speak of?
And why can't competition over existing resources be done peacefully? (There's an app for that.)
OK, so property would neither be required nor seized. So that means private ownership of resources will be respected, right?
The abundance will come when the technologies indicated are implemented into cities. That process is highly technical in itself so test cities will need to be developed first to test everything. It's better to correct mistakes before committing.
Competition can exist however competition itself implies inequality. There will always be winners and losers. In order to win some groups are willing to do whatever it takes regardless of morals or ethics. Over time many of these unethical groups will gain a foothold and a significant advantage over others that play the game fairly. (It's understandable to want to win) Once they get a foothold politically, or financially they will use their power to then gain an even greater advantage securing their prosperity at the expense of others. And so we end up back here once again, protesting some extreme form of corruption.
Collaboration has advanced society much more than competition has. We wouldn't have grown from nomads => villages => cities => nations if more and more people didn't collaborate. We are at a stage now where we must be able to collaborate on a global scale.
Yes, the property would be respected. The trade off of course is living a higher quality of life with more people as more people become familiar with the RBE concept.
Collaboration results from freedom, individual rights, private property, and the removal of force from the interactions between people. That's what got humanity out of the mud it stayed in since forever.
Unethical behavior only gains an advantage when it is backed up by force. When money power buys favors from government, then and only then can unethical practices thrive.
I believe that this new concept ignores a few fundamental human traits, and I question whether it can be launched by volunteers with their own money.
What "got us out of the mud" was the scientific method and the technological advances that came from that.
When society is run via opinion rather than by facts/evidence it will make mistakes much more frequently. The scientific method is able to self-test ideas and beliefs before implementing. It is able to evolve based on new information.
As for starting it, exposing and fixing corrupt corporatism may be necessary before implementing test cities.
I agree about the scientific method. On that score, we might have a ways to go. The same forces that squelched the scientific method for so many ages are still with us today. Fading, but still holding a vast majority.
the venus project is a cult. in order to make any sense out of their otherwise half good ideas, you'd have to disconnect the totalitarian pipe dreams and godbots and then actually redefine everything using actual science, sociology, systems theory, game theory.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166045203446977#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166045203446977#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=164880556896775
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166045203446977#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=164925133558984
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166045203446977#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=164876403563857
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166045203446977#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=164879390230225
Even if it is a cult, perhaps some of the ideas are valid and worth consideration. Please don't write it all off, it may be a beneficial thing to work towards.
i don't write it all off. I do make the point. it is in fact a dangerous and totalitarian fascist cult. You want o rescue the best ideas, i am down with that. I have even done all that work already.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165096780208486 V.I.I.R.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=168277696557061
University Project First Steps
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=168279776556853
University Project Brainstorm
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=168142193237278
NICE University
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=167877999930364
Psychonautics Textbook
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=167448986639932
Socratic Method
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166330673418430
Different Kinds of Geothermal Power
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166259990092165
Common Myths and Misconceptions About Geothermal Power
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166255476759283
Zero Carbon Cities
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166254060092758
Energy cost Benefit Analysis
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166057976779033
Applications In Practice and Theory for Arcologies
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166041926780638
Mega Scale Engineering Criteria
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=163547577030073
main Problems Clusters
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165334013518096
sugestions on how to proceed
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165099426874888
WAR vs Economic Social Justice
before answering me. read.
gawdoftruth: I'm curious about your claim that the Venus Project is a cult and is dangerous. Can you elaborate on this? You're going to have to offer a bit more than Facebook pages as support. I have visited the Venus Project on multiple occasions and have spoken at length with Jacque Fresco. I can assure you it is in no way a cult and is not dangerous.
i have studied cult psychology and propaganda and psychology in general to the expert level. i can assure you that it is in fact a cult and that i am in an expert position to be able to make such determinations.
Please don't waste my time BSing me, if you want to argue the points, go grab chunks of my argument from the FB pages and we can go item by item.
The venus project most certainly is a cult. I have tried to help them, but they won;t be helped. The offer for help is still open, all they need to do is take my hand and we can evolve them out from being a cult. until then, they are a VERY dangerous totalitarian fascist depopulation cult, and if you have any problem with those details, you need to go to my four links as posted and go item per item.
Let me spell it out for you before you start. jaques has at best 3 or 5 virtual bachelors and i have 20 virtual phds. hes no modern davinci. I am. I also sing in four octaves, play the clarinet and flute expertly, do chi sao and kata and reflex as much as 10 times faster than humans.
I am the evolutionary bellcurves farthest point; the harbinger of evolutionary process and direction.
It is futile to argue with me because i am everything tvp only dreams of being. incarnate knowledge; pure; hard core.
i put all of this forth because i certainly don't find it interesting to argue with you. if you want to step up and be a part of trying to fix it, thats the place to start. otherwise as with other posters around here you will find that my version of severity can be... intense.
Both the mercy and the severity exists here. take your pick and choose wisely. you want the lovebath of liquid light and pure information to heal and evolve the tzm so it can finely be a social movement? I'm the systems doctor. I studied systems theory and game theory these are systems and sociology problems they can't solve. You want to call the lightning? ouch? i mean... don't make it suck to be you. esp since i mostly agree with the general gist of tvp. why but heads over this. they have fatal errors and those errors make them a dangerous cult. bridge the gap. I'm not here to harm anybody i can love them through it and build the bridge for them to cross. But i am incarnate knowledge; and so its going to hurt always to "argue" with me.
Ok then! I don't know what you are exactly. But, I am pretty confident I now know what you are not. Good luck to you.