Forum Post: Regarding demands...
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 6, 2011, 5:16 p.m. EST by eb6e32a2
(7)
from Den Haag, ZH
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Well, my day turned out different than I planned. During my early morning coffee break I figured a could I spent five minutes on the internet to read about this Occupy Wallstreet Movement I’ve been hearing about. Usually five minutes is enough to get a general idea about what kind of organisations are involved and what the people demand. Not this time! So, I ended up taking a five hour coffee break.
The people in the Occupy Wallstreet Movement turned out to be very diverse without clear demands or maybe an abundance of demands. From different sources I tried to boil down a shortlist of demands and failed miserably. Eventually, I came up with a single demand that - in my opinion - covers most common ground.
The difficulty with demands is that they are usually phrased like: “take this action”, “don’t do that”, etc. In essence the difficulty with demands phrased like this is that you’re proposing solutions to a problem. However, the problems we are facing today are far too complex to be solved with a shortlist of demands/solutions. The problem we have to deal with is a globally interwoven economic system that is out of control and does not produce the desired or even acceptable results. Just to name a couple of those unacceptable results. Wealth is not distributed fairly and ends up in the hands of those least civilised. Our global environment, the foundation of all wealth, is neglected. Because of this neglect the very basis of economies is quickly eroding.
These past years leaders around the world have tried to regain control of this economic system. They failed. In their efforts they applied economic logic that lies at the foundation of our out of control economic system. And they continue to do so. Because of this a - by 2011 standards - small contained sub-prime mortgage crisis has spread like an infectious disease creating crisis after crisis in the worlds economic systems. Now the disease has grown to an economic pandemic and it is crystal clear that our current economic system is ultimately bankrupt: brain dead! Nevertheless our leaders continue to keep this unwanted economic system on life support by wasting enormous amounts of money in a desperate effort the economy’s vital organs from failing. They are failing. Guess who is going to pay the hospital bills when the doctors finally pronounce our current economic system dead?
The problem - bottom line - is that for years we have tried to keep an economic system alive that was terminally failing and is now out of control. Despite all our efforts we ended up only fuelling the economic cancer that got us ill in the first place. I say pull the plug and let this undesirable system die. We should move on to a truly novel economic system that does produce desired results. I say stop wasting resources on life support and start using those resources to create this novel economic system.
However, if we pull the plug and move on we move into uncharted territory. If keeping the current economic system on life support is complex how tremendously more complex will creating a new one be? Given this complexity who should solve this problem? Who is even capable of solving this problem? Surely, one can not expect that a shortlist of demands from the occupy wallstreet movement to provide a workable solution without unacceptable side-effects or collateral damage.
Then again is it really the Occupy Wallstreet Movements job to come up with a solution for a novel economic system and formulate this solution in a few demands? I think it isn’t. We have elected leaders to do this job. Right now the most urgent task that comes with the job is to stop wasting our money, learn from mistakes made and transform the current economic system into a truly novel one that provides (at least) acceptable results for everyone. That should be the Occupy Wallstreet Movements one and only demand:
START DOING YOUR JOB OR RESIGN!
An ability to constructively work together with political opponents for the better of all the people - the 99% and the 1% - is a basic job requirement. If you cannot fulfil that requirement the people will gladly accept your resignation and elect someone who can.
M.O., the Netherlands
P.S.: As Dutch is my native language and English is not I hope you’ll forgive me if the syntax in the above text sometimes seems a little awkward. If it looks awkward it’s probably Dunglish. ;-)
Check out http://www.thevenusproject.com/ . I know that it is a lot to stomach at once since the idea is so different than what we are used to, but I think it's doable, and is a worthy goal to aim for. It's not perfect, but the general idea is what is needed I believe.
I'm an engineer by profession but I study economics on the side and I have to say that the Venus Project is never going to work. It ignores the complexities of calculating resource allocation. Without a supercomputer approaching omniscience there is no way to handle it other than the price mechanism.
Check out this debate between the Venus Project and Stefan Molyneux.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxjwBZjADiM
I haven't looked in to the Venus Project nor watched the video yet but you often hear that there is no alternative to the price mechanism. So, I just respond right away. ;-)
The current system of resource allocation; the price mechanism is Adam Smith's famous invisible hand. Now why is it called invisible? Because it doesn't exists. The only market in which this invisible hand will produce the desired results is a perfect market and there is no such thing as a perfect market with complete competition. I myself got an university degree in business administration. The only thing I basically learned in five years studying is how to disable competition and defeat the perfect market. If a business does end up in a market with perfect competition it will quickly erode profits to the point that there is no money left to invest or innovate and the company will die. Just to make a long story short: in the current economic system we have companies which can only survive in imperfect markets ergo, the price mechanism in those markets is failing to some degree. So maybe there is another resource allocation mechanism conceivable that is also not perfect but better than the price mechanism.
Also, the quants on Wall Street appear to do a hell of a good job in creating computer models that allocate the resources of large investment fund so well that they make ludicrous amounts of profits even in a bear market. (Fully autonomous computers shifting billions for milliseconds on electronic markets.) I'd say maybe our governments should hire those people to work for us and design a 'fit for purpose' model to allocate resources. At least it's worth a try.
Mwagshol, research a "resource based economy". The problems we are having in our society is due to our outdated system. People are trying to make the current system adapt to their demands, when it's in society's best interest to just change the system. It's like trying to maintain an old car by changing parts one at a time. It's just somewhat prolonging the inevitable. Eventually a new car will be needed. I think all of the demands I've seen will be met by a "resource based economy". Obviously, this can't change overnight, but if the idea is out there, and if it's the main goal, people will start researching it themselves and change will start to happen.
How are resources allocated in a "resource based economy"?
I'm copying these two answers from the Venus Project's website, but to sort of sum things up, scarcity will be eliminated:
Distribution of goods and services without the use of money or tokens would be accomplished by establishing distribution centers. These centers would be similar to expositions, where the advantages of new products are explained and demonstrated. Exhibition centers will display what is new and available and will constantly be updated. If you visited Yellowstone National Park, you could check out a camera or camcorder, use it, and then return it to another distribution center or drop-off, eliminating storage and maintenance.
Besides computerized centers throughout the communities where products would eventually be displayed, there will be 3-D, flat-screen imaging in each home. If you desire an item, an order can be placed and the item automatically delivered directly to your place of residence without a price tag, servitude, or debt of any kind. This includes whatever people need such as housing, clothing, education, health care, entertainment, etc.
Raw materials for products can be transported directly to manufacturing facilities by automated transportation "sequences" using boats, monorails, mag-lev trains, pipelines, and pneumatic tubes. An automated, computerized inventory system would integrate the distribution centers and manufacturing facilities, coordinating production to meet demand. In this way, a balanced-load economy can be maintained. Shortages, over-runs, and waste could be eliminated. Eventually goods and services will be mass-produced in such abundance as to be too cheap to monitor.
Today there is more than 75% waste in the production of material goods. In a resource-based economy, all waste would be recycled. A priority would be designing things of the highest quality so that products would last longer and require little or no service. Many electronic parts will use plug-in components for convenient repair. There would be no planned obsolescence just to sell the latest designs or fashions. This would eliminate considerable waste.
Energy can also be conserved in the loading and unloading of materials in transport systems. For instance, instead of unloading separate containers, an entire freight section will be disengaged from a cargo ship and replaced with another so that the ship does not waste time at the dock during loading and unloading. The same method can be applied to trains and planes. There will be one compartment for passengers and baggage, which can be disengaged from the plane or train as a new section is loaded, so that the vehicle is more effective and conserves time and energy. All transportation will be operated electrically.
In a cybernated society, people will have more time for individual interests such as going back to school, working in the arts and sciences, traveling, etc. There will be many choices for exploring, studying, enjoying, and participation.
Professions that are non contributing, such as banking, insurance, advertising, marketing, sales, the military, lawyers, stockbrokers, etc., will evolve into activities that are more useful.
And asked if scarcity will be eliminated:
Yes. The potential of untapped energy sources is almost limitless if we utilize desert heat concentrators, wind, wave and tidal sources. Even portions of the Gulf Stream, the Icelandic Current, and the Japan Current could eliminate all of the energy shortages in the world today. If we had utilized the money that we spent on military systems for the last 40 years and put it toward developing clean sources of energy, the world would be a far better, safer, and cleaner place for all of humankind.
The potential of geothermal energy is almost limitless and can easily supply enough energy for all of the world's needs. Even if we harness only one percent of the geothermal energy of the earth's outer crust we would have available approximately five hundred times the energy contained in all of the gas and oil reserves in the world. This source of energy gives off little or no sulfur compared to fossil fuel fired power plants and they emit no nitrogen oxides. In addition, geothermal installations require very little dedicated land as compared to other power plants. The drilling of geothermal wells has far fewer environmental impacts than other energy resources, and there is no need for mineshafts, tunnels, open pits, or waste storage.
A great deal of this energy is available in the outer most layers of the earth's crust which is approximately six miles and this potential energy source is available throughout the world from the Andes Mountains in South America to the Gulf of California, The Rift Valleys of Africa, the Mid Atlantic Ridge, and along the Bering Strait.
I like this slogan "START DOING YOUR JOB OR RESIGN! " good stuff
Sounds nice, but how do we get that general idea implemented through an action that is politically doable? We need an initial win through a realistic demand that the majority of people will support- one that would also promote future victories for the people as they once again would feel they have some sort of political power.
I believe this needs to be an action that people across the political spectrum will support. I'm beginning to research this now and I am looking for references with critical analysis and polls that will back it up.
Join me in this research!
I don't think it is possible to a formulate a single or a few realistic demand(s) that will actually solve the problem. Let's say that we pass a law that prohibits corporate funding of election campaigns. One demand met and an economic system that is still in ruins. Then we have another demand: tax the rich. The rich are taxed and the economy is still unfair and failing. Then we have another demand which is met and again the problem isn't solved. We can continue making demands and maybe (in an utopian world) after a thousand or so demands we finally solved the problem. Then we did the job we asked the politicians to do.
People across the political spectrum need to start working constructively together to find a sustainable solution to this crisis. That's their job. I'm only asking them to do the job they're hired to do. A job they promised they are capable of doing. I won't hire someone to do a job only to end up doing it badly myself.
I believe that there is a demand or a few demands in succession that could at least return some power to the people to ensure we, or the people we elect, are actually working on the problems, while also having bipartisan support.
I'm working on researching this now and I hope you'll join me.
Another problem with specific demands is that they start a clock ticking. If they aren't acknowledged or met you have to either give up or escalate the protest.
I agree. On the other hand the clock is ticking already. Escalation is in numbers. As more people become fed up with politicians that don't provide good solutions to our problems, more people will join the protest. As more people join the protests more people will start to believe the can actually make a change. Those people will then join the protests creating a movement with a sustainable momentum to continue to protest for a long time.