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Forum Post: Red VS Blue

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 23, 2012, 4:19 p.m. EST by DanielBarton (1345)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

If anyone here has seen red vs blue they would know that no team wins they just sit around and argue with each other over and over until the episode is done then it just starts again. This is how how government is it just endless arguing and nothing ever gets done. The even made it a game for us i mean Red vs Blue. We affiliate our selves with these "teams" but in reality nothing gets done just the same process over and over. The most that happens is people like us argue who is better and who screws each other over more.

What we should be doing is look at our selves and not letting us be sucked into labels. no one agrees on everything 100% and no will ever agree 100% were human we are all different. So really there should be no party that you agree to 100% but you surrender your self away every time you vote for someone. When you vote for that person you are now them on every issue they have and will vote for and against.

This isn't a anti anything this is to become self aware. We need to approach things in a more civilized manor no matter how different someones opinion is you must still respect it because it is theirs to make.

Dont fall in the trap of Red vs Blue be your own person

this is the video i was talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo7QCC2EDtk

and their website http://roosterteeth.com/home.php

133 Comments

133 Comments


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[-] 4 points by wellhungjury (296) 2 years ago

Best thing that I have read today.

[-] 2 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

thank you

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

It is simply amazing to me how many people can't distinguish between goals, and tactics. All those who say we should not vote, or throw away our vote in the upcoming elections, have not stated in what way this would further this cause at all.

That is because they can't. There simply is no way that throwing away our vote will further this movement. Therefore, the intentions of those who make this proposition are suspect, unless they can provide some rational evidence to support their advocacy of not voting.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

i'm not saying to throw away anyone's vote i'm saying look into who you are voting for

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Ah, there we agree completely!

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

good because again we are human we all think differently

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Agreed. That's what democracy is for; now let's see if we can get our democracy back again, and how best to go about doing so.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

good i just say vote for real people

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

This post is one of the best I've seen. They have a motive for keeping us divided - because UNITED, we would be a force they could not overcome.

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

good post

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I second that motion too

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

haha thanks its time to let the pinks greens yellows and other "colors" have their fair share

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

Every OWS activist I've encountered is way, way beyond the Red vs Blue binary and looking to build an entirely new society based on democracy, pleace, love, solidarity and nonviolence.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

i see it everyday. Just because i have conservative out looks on things i'm thrown to the gutter. The point being is these men just like power and we pay the bill so we need to vote in candidates that are really the voice of the people. It doesn't have to be nationally done it can be done locally im just bringing awareness to a situation that i think is bubbling.

[-] 2 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

Most of the people I encounter at OWS are way beyond voting, at least way beyond voting for Republicans or Democrats. As it says on the home page of this web site we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better world. It's up to us.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

yes my only advice is not get rid of the system we have but to throw more realistic people into it. I have been saying for years that we can not have a two party system. We should adopt the ways of free market for our democracy, meaning many choices. This could overwhelm many but i think that it would be for the better.

[-] 2 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

We so far OWS is a nonpolitical movement, which I think is a good thing for the forseeable future as only then can it attract the broadest base possible, but in many respects it also seems post-political to me in the sense that it makes no demands, which I also think is a good thing and a basis upon which to attract the broadest possilble support. Many OWS activists also take the position that it makes absolutely no sense to make demands on a system with which you fundamentally disagree, a position with with I also agree.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

good post

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

"For until the giant recognizes that she has two hands, a Left and a Right, and two feet, a Left and a Right, and two sides of a brain, a Left and a Right, and that she needs both, the giant will do nothing more than flail."

http://boingboing.net/2012/02/21/lessigs-one-way-forward.html

[-] 2 points by Puerile (12) 2 years ago

Implying "left" and "right" actually have significance like that in a political sense

[-] -1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

You disagree?

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

Apparently he does.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

never read this before i really like that quote so much im going to save it

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

I like that quote, and i'll be looking for that book, thanks.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

This post has given me a lot to think about. If nothing truly changes through the political process, than why has so much changed in American culture and the direction of the nation's policies? Was it American citizens conforming to law, or law conforming to the change in American Culture? Also if the kabuki theater is all for naught, just a spectator sport, like football, then what does this mean? I guess the hardest part I have believing the red and blue divide is an allusion is that I understand both philosophies and see how Conservatism and Liberalism both believe that their laws are best for the society as a whole. And when you read history, you get a sense for which eras were blue team dominated, and which eras were ran by red team fundamentals. But I will say, what I have witnessed in my life time concerning politics, I see your point, the differences are really not that different.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

thank you for seeing my point i just want to bring this aware to everyone and that when or if you vote think hard about who is representing you

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

The red v blue trap is a trap largely because it is really such a narrow binary of a conservative party (the Democrats) facing a more conservative party (the Republicans) fortunately and from its inception OWS has moved well beyond that binary.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

well good for it

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

I totally disagree that Occupy has succeeded in transcending that dichotomy. You can count a large number of threads just recently that are totally aimed at demonizing "Repelicans". One notable thread today referred to the GOP as "rapists" and managed to include the word "Gestapo". Several frequent posters to this forum seem to be totally dedicated to hatred of Republicans above all other issues. One thread today consisted of a collection of them, giving each other high-fives for their creative slurs against people with "R" on their voter registration cards.

[-] 0 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

Well, it may be true that this forum has yet to transcend the Republican vs. Democratic binary, but it is not my experience that that is the case with any active occupation or GA. At virtually every active occupation and GA which I attended (and I've been to several) the political discourse was well beyond the Republican vs. Democratic binary, and while it is a legitimate subject of discussion the fact that much of this forum is still consumed by that narrow binary is an indication to me at least that in any meaningful sense much of the discussion on this forum falls well outside of what OWS is all about.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

Yea, there is no way you need to take that pill!

Its a scam, all the way back before the read and blue coats.

This is good. DanielBarton wrote____ What we should be doing is look at our selves and not letting us be sucked into labels. no one agrees on everything 100% and no will ever agree 100% were human we are all different.


Ultimately all that contrived conflict is a "one way path to extinction" for humans.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

so are we going to all kill each other

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

The film matrix, OMG! So what's the red pill? Indirectly, yes . . . at least that is what this bizarro link rayo posted says.

http://truthasaur.com/misc/collectiveunconscious.html

but there's some weirdness there for sure, not to mention my username. Creepy.

Why did you decide to post the red/blue thing thread? You started this.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

i posted a red vs blue because that is the colors of the parties but also red vs blue the web sears where all they do is talk and do nothing

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

The red pill was the truth about (9-11), the unconscious, according to that link, we didn't take that pill. So now we have the blue pill.

Okay, thanks DanielBarton. You write: "where all they do is talk and do nothing"

That kind of fits into what that link is saying. It says that we are controlled unconsciously, and most of us never even consider the possibility. When it explains that our lives are mostly unconscious, it starts to make sense, which is freaky.

Like we are unconscious from birth to death, except for 16 hour segments where part of our unconscious converts to an operation with cognitive reasoning potential. Still, in that waking state we are 86% unconscious. So our unconscious is continuous throughout our lives, but the conscious is all broken up.

I can't believe I wrote what I wrote about extinction. Given the correctness of the stuff I described on those pages, they make some serious sense, in a weird way. they show that there could be a collective unconscious and that our instincts, our genes are competing inside of us for control of our behaviors. Slowly shifting our behaviors over to what it describes as "insectoid", reacting to fear rather than love.

That sure fits the current government agenda:(

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 2 years ago

Twilight zone, your username, this thread, this link, f'nnn weird.

http://truthasaur.com/misc/collectiveunconscious.html

I found that searching for red and blue. Skincrawler, . . . holyshit!

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

Does "colonization" mean we have insect genes? I mean look at this thread here, about insects, ALL about insects. They left the mammals out.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-ant-and-the-grasshopper/

That link you post is H E A V Y, I mean that. There is actually some science and logic behind it. Why doesn't academia ever go there, that's what I wonder. Then again, religion tries to deny our animal mind, and it was behind our European origins, maybe it doesn't remember consciously what it is doing.

That page it links to deals with "dissociation" instant memory failure, complete, maybe permanent from what medicine has documented. Maybe there is a way to explain our inhuman activities on the planet. Thanks for the link!

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

i like the weird theories that went with this thread. I was just thinking red vs blue as a good old joke

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

The strangest thing of all is the truth, is an old saying. Perhaps for a reason.

Bloods and Crips

Repub or demo

Redcoats and Yankees

Truth or Comfort.

Red v Blue is an astute observation!

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

so why would they pick red and blue then

[-] 2 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

That page, bizarre, that whole site gives me chicken skin.

Blue blood = copper based blood. What animals have blood based on copper compounds?

Horseshoe crabs. And some other crabs, lobsters, insects, and a few other arthropods.

The British Royals were called "blue bloods", but they had red coats. Human blood is blue-ish, until it hits the air then it oxidizes red.

The flag, Red, White and Blue.

The next page gets into how insect decision making ignores the environment and everything exists for the colony.

http://truthasaur.com/misc/sibling_extinctions.html

Sounds familiar when you look at history. That stuff on the page before the above about gold and PC computers compared to Mac's then the "Blue Group" and epigenetics. Very strange thinking but there's science in it too. Like I said chicken skin.

[-] 1 points by Skippy2 (485) 2 years ago

I dont think of myself as Red or Blue. Maybe a nice magenta. Thats why I plan to vote against all incumbents. Professional politicians are scum filled leeches.

[-] 1 points by Chugwunka (89) from Willows, CA 2 years ago

While I agree with you there are too many here that are too far gone in their own propaganda to change. It's too late. Some here actually want one party rule providing that party is the democrats. They truly believe that it would bring a socialist paradise. Of course the anarchists that claim to run OWS wouldn't agree.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

there should be no big or better party than the other

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

That's true. Occupy seems to be locked in a power struggle, between activist Democrats, and anarchists. The rest of the 99% don't seem to factor into their vision at all.

I've been talking about this here with a few different people here today who said basically that Republicans would be welcome in Occupy as long as they stopped being Republicans. Which really just completely misses the point of non-partisan unity and rallying around common ground.

One of the most common responses that I get when I object to this kind of mentality is, "Why are you here?" And I wonder that myself sometimes. I think that most moderates and definitely most right-leaning people simply conclude that Occupy has no place for them and so they go away.

[-] 4 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

You may be mistaking this one forum for the movement.

[-] -1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

When the encampments ended, the movement moved online. This forum is the center of gravity.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

The movement my be largely hibernating for the winter, (although many action have been taking place), some folks may show up here from time to time, however this single forum is in no way the center of anything but itself. This forum is often manipulated by dim-witted tools of the 1%, spamming nonsensical gibberish to quash most of the useful discussion. Many projects have grown out of this Occupy fall,. and this spring will see a much more impressive push to change the game. The most important thing to arise from Occupy has been awareness and that is a bit more long lasting than all the individual actions.

[-] 1 points by Chugwunka (89) from Willows, CA 2 years ago

I agree 100%. To these people the 99% are only liberal/ left wing people. Everyone else is the enemy. Ironically I have to agree that they are the enemy of the real 99%.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

See this shit. And this is why I'm not upset that I act like a party hack. There are enough hacks to go around, and you my friend are the worst, a right wing hack. I got your enemy, boy. Glad to see you are so in tuned to the feelings and dispositions of 99 percent of the population, though I believe you are fooling yourself.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

You're so caught up in your red vs blue mentality that you can't even comprehend the concept of unifying the 99% behind a common cause.

[-] -1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

no, it has nothing to do with red and blue. it has to do with not holding my tongue when idiots say idiotic things. And that is something that i believe you don't want to acknowledge, that most who agree with you, don't have a clue. they just happen to be party hacks you agree with. Also, I threw you a peace offering, lets start talking about transparent elections, and I noticed you had nothing to say, but you are quick to pigeon hole me. what gives?

[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

I don't see anything from you about transparent elections on this page. Are you talking about some other page? Most of the people here spend so much time demonizing "Repelicans" that there is o possibility of rational conversation. You "right-wing hacks" comment to which I replied is an example of that.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

http://occupywallst.org/forum/message-to-occupy-from-httpwwwthe99declarationorg/ Are you capable of discussing issues or are you not?

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

It's time for me to sleep now, squawking parrot. Let's see if you're capable tomorrow of working with somebody who has different views, or if you want to spend yet another day alienating a potential ally.

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

Unless there is a different Teckjunkie, I had a conversation this morning with someone who resembled your tag name, and I admitted that I was just venting when I clown Republicans, but after I said that, I said that the Super Pacs are the biggest impediment to fair and transparent elections. See, unlike most people i like to know which organizations are funding which candidates. The morale of a candidate, being that is one of the easiest things to fake, that and religious fidelity, just does not seem as important to me as who is paying the candidate's way. So what I believe, is that having transparent elections is something both Conservatives and Progressives could agree as beneficial to both. Let's make Super Pacs more transparent.

[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Okay yes I vaguely remember that. But I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of people today on this site, and I can summarize just about everybody's opinions with, "Republicans are the enemy, why are you here?" It all kind of blurs together after a while. Time for sleep for me now, I have a job to deal with tomorrow. The extreme left succeeded in preventing any sort of multi-lateral unity today. Maybe there is hope for tomorrow. I sort of doubt it.

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

thats what i see here everyday and if i recommend a fix to a system im called some name

[-] -1 points by Chugwunka (89) from Willows, CA 2 years ago

So you are saying that conservatives aren't ridiculed and told they are unwelcome? Boy? And what pray tell makes you so tuned in, boy?

[-] 4 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

well, you may get ridiculed, but that don't mean you are not welcome. I never once said I knew what 99 percent of the population believes, nor did I call those I disagree with my enemies. I would never be so bold. and this is what I was addressing when I addressed you.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Where you at? Looks like its a non partisan conversation going on over here. http://occupywallst.org/forum/message-to-occupy-from-httpwwwthe99declarationorg/

[-] -1 points by Chugwunka (89) from Willows, CA 2 years ago

But what about the anarchists that claim to own this movement?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

http://occupywallst.org/forum/message-to-occupy-from-httpwwwthe99declarationorg/

Are you capable of discussing issues or are you not?

[-] 1 points by Chugwunka (89) from Willows, CA 2 years ago

Are you capable of not pretending the anarchist element doesn't exist and that pretending it has nothing to do with OWS means that they will just go away? And when they show up at your convention?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I don't have a problem with the anarchists. Are you going to put any effort into any conversation or thread that discusses any issues or are you going to spend your entire time here whining?

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

You have spent considerable energy in the last 24 hours on vilifying Republicans, in general. So don't pretend now to be above the partisanship. Most of the people who you're demonizing don't bother to engage you like I have attempted. They just go away.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You have spent the past 24 hours doing nothing but whine. So save it. http://occupywallst.org/forum/message-to-occupy-from-httpwwwthe99declarationorg/ Are you capable of discussing issues or are you not?

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

It's time for me to sleep now. I've had to waste so much time in defensive mode today dealing with people who are convinced the Republicans are the enemy that I've been totally distracted from any other issue. So... Score one for the 1%. Congratulations for that. Maybe if there are fewer divisive "Repelican" slurs tomorrow then we'll be able to work together on some common-ground issue. Or otherwise this side-show distraction will continue again tomorrow. But now I have to sleep because I have a job.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Don't bother, Tech.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Yes, I get the message loud and clear that if I'm not a radical extremist leftist then I'm not welcome here. Most moderates and conservatives have simply gone away. For some reason I do bother, but it's getting really old. I think that sooner or later the extreme left like you will succeed in driving away everybody who doesn't think exactly like you do. Which is pretty ironic because closed-minded, intolerant ideology is exactly the mind of thing that you oppose in the right. Good night.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Yes.

It's very sad to see so many Occupiers who are totally convinced that Republicans are their enemy. A lot of people on this site are more interested in turning Occupy into an arm of the Democratic Party than they are in finding common ground to unite the 99%. Republicans who come here looking for a non-partisan, productive environment are immediately turned off by divisive slurs like "(R)epelican't" and so they go away.

Opportinities for non-partisan unity are squandered here on a daily basis by people who are incapable of looking beyond their own prejudices to include people who have different ideas. Isn't that the sort of mentaility that liberals traditionally oppose in conservatives? Closed-minded intolerance? Inability to empathize with people who come from a different perspective?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I will empathize with a (R)eplican't as soon as they empathize with me.

The very first time I heard someone "demonize" any political party, it was "conservatives" demonizing all things liberal, and that was back in the 70s.

Tune in to any number of mini-Limbaughs on AM radio, and you will hear those same lies being told over and over.

The ONLY common ground I've found here, and it's not 100%, is the idea of getting the money out.

I've even explained to you why I use that term, and asked you for a replacement. You failed to find one.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Stop focusing on dividing and focus on the common ground: getting the money out. Otherwise, what's the point? You're just demonstrating a sad failure of discipline and empathy. If you're totally incapable of relating to somebody who thinks differently than you without insulting them then what kind of liberal are you?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I don't exactly see you offering an olive branch.

I'm the kind of liberal that's gotten tired of being kicked.

You seem to be the kind of guy that empathizes with all those mini-Limbaughs, or maybe Drudge.

You still haven't offered a replacement term, although I've asked you in earnest.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

You don't get to tell Republicans that they're not true Republicans. Sorry. You're creating a pointless diversion by clinging to that.

Occupy is obsessed with "consensus". But you're not. Your partisan attitude is an impediment to consensus.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Are you anti union?

Are you pro religion in politics?

Are you anti government?

Are you pro corporate rights?

Are you pro HUGE government?

Do think this thread you stared isn't anti-consensus?

Better yet, why don't you tell the whole World what you think a "true" republican is.

I find the concept rather blurry these days.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Telling people who don't think like you that they're just WRONG is not a good way to build consensus. You need to have the discipline to empathize with the rest of the 99%. Not just people who share your exact ideology. You're never going to unite the 99% if you're too weak to do that. You're one of the people standing in the way of progress if you can't bring yourself to do that.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Dear Mr. Junkie,

I asked you some questions in attempt to gain some real clarity on your actual positions.

Rather than make any attempt to address so much as one of them, you repeated yourself for the umpteenth time.

How is that not derisive?

I have attempted to answer your questions to me, yet you haven't given a clear answer to one of mine.

How is that not derisive?

Since you wish for "consensus", how about this?

I would like to see you give equal attack time to any number of those people that use derisive terms for liberals.

They are myriad, so I've offer you plenty of "choice".

That is an attempt on my part to reach consensus.

Yours Truly,

Mr. shooz

[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Am I anti union? I suppose I personally am, yes. Especially teacher's unions.

Am I pro religion? Hell no.

Am I anti-government? No, I'm against corrupt government.

Am I pro corporate rights? No, I'm against excessive regulation, as an entrepreneur, but I'm not pro corporate rights.

(I fail to see what any of this has to do with anything?)

Am I pro HUGE government? No. Definitely not. Because there is far too much corruption in the government that we already have. We don't need more of that.

Do I think that this thread is anti-consensus? No. I'm just tying to point out that you're focused on wedge issues instead of on seeking common ground. You're more focused on establishing that the left is correct and that the right is wrong, rather than on seeking to unify the 99% and rally people of varying ideologies behind a common cause.

This nonsense about "true Republicanism" is a perfect example. You really need to stop that because you're simply driving away half of the 99%. You hate Republicans. We get it. You need to find the strength to look past that and learn to relate to people who think differently than you do.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Thanks for a more lucid response.

I am 100% pro union. We would problems with this discussion.

I agree. People need to learn how to separate their politics.

I agree. Corruption needs to end. Get the money out first, then let's see where we're at. This one thing, I believe, will open up all understanding.

I do not believe in constitutional "rights" for corporations. My mistake, the question should have been clearer.

Over the last thirty years the government has grow much larger and more intrusive under republican administrations. That's a fact.

So why do want so much to shrink now?

Please do tell, what wedge issue do think I'm bring up?

I'm not going to repeat here, all the issues I have with the party who shall not be named, but I have stated many in other threads.

I have found 2 places where we agree.

Would you consider that a start?

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Yes, that's a start.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

why so pro union i know you worked in the car manufacturing but they make things so complicated and cumbersome that things turn to a halt

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Unions actually make things clearer.

I won't go into all the reasons again.

I will say this though.

Acceptance of a union is a sign of a stable relationship.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

.... clearer how so

acceptance of management and HR is a stable relationship

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Tell it to the dead people in the mines of Massey.

The non-union attitude creates dead and injured people

Your working knowledge of unions is rather thin.

You should give up.

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

well im not any standards and yes that is a loss. And as an engineer i will work to make jobs safer and cost effective. We will find a way to have both

never give in never surrender

but also remember i have my own opinions and you have yours. doesn't mean your right and im wrong

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Engineers in my plant joined the union. Smart "choice".

Contracts describe much more than the simple example you gave. In fact that's really not applicable, so I'll ignore it.

If the place you work is so cheap shit they hire out for HR, I pity you if real problems arise for you. You won't like the results.

Attitudes like yours, are why I believe we need unionization now, more than we have since the movement started.

There's more to a union than pay scales.

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

im sorry i know no of your so called "engineers" join unions. we are told not to because we have societies not unions. We have these societies so people can not take the title of engineer unless they have gone through the certified classes

well most companies have HR reps for all types of problems

its not an attitude i just dont see the need for a union when people just need work and unions will slow that process

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Everyone knows what's expected of them.

Not so with management and HR.is management, I would think you knew that, so why be redundant.

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

yeah so if the employer runs goof operation that tells people their exact jobs and where their place is everything would go smoothly then why would you need a union

im saying unions are bad i just dont think we need some of them as much. the engineers almost had a union then they laughed it off and made a society instead and i am in three of those societies

also HR is not management they a private department that helps workers and mangers solve problems

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

This isn't a hard concept to grasp. Starting to wander if it's a choice and what would motivate such a decision in the face of an inclusive movement.

[-] -1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

I personally think that it comes from Occupy being started by radical leftist activists. A lot of them want to believe that they represent 99% of the population, but they want 99% of the population to shift to the left with them. Instead of accepting that a lot of people are not radical leftists.

I personally have nothing against radical leftists. I'm a socially-liberal libertarian who is registered as a Republican (entrepreneur) who grew up marching for ERA and defending women's health clinics from fundamentalist anti-abortionists. I don't assume that everybody thinks the way that I do, and I don't presume to think that everybody SHOULD think the way that I do. My positions have changed many times on many things and I don't necessarily assume that I'm right about everything.

A lot of people associated with Occupy think of themselves as liberals, but they're actually just as closed-minded and intolerant as the religious fundamentalists who used to throw plastic fetus dolls at my head because they were convinced that they were right and I was wrong. But those fundamentalists were not even claiming to seek consensus. Occupy theoretically stands for consensus-building, and seeks to represent everybody. So it's inherently counter productive and hypocritical to participate in Occupy and spend time slamming on Republicans. The way to work toward Occupy's ideal of building consensus among the 99% is to find the strength to look past that. To transcend the wedge issues that divide us.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I'm a registered Dem and have tried many times to point this stuff out to folks but you are correct, hotheadedness and lack of humility are hampering forward momentum.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

yeah so what do we do then

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Only one thing you have control over, you. Do your thing and set an example. Those worth having will tighten up and those who aren't, won't. Pretty simple.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

sounds good

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

sometimes the better man takes the first step

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Been there, done that, and received the insults anyway.

BTW, why aren't applying these thoughts in the other direction?

The insults from the "right" have been much more egregious then (R)epelican't.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

yeah i don't approve of them. But i cant police everyone and anyways i'm a moderate i don't side my self with any party and i mean any

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

So you decide to police me??

Here's how you can help.

I adopted the term (R)eplican't out of respect for ZenDog.

Go visit his blog and get him to come back, and I'll stop using it.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

This has nothing to do with policing. It has nothing to do with your take on issues. It has nothing to do with anything at all. It's a line of bullshit in an effort to silence you. Period.

You must have said something truthful.............and scary.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Kinda like that guy who messaged me a while back to say I was next to be banned.

Not gonna happen.

Besides, I have yet to see an olive branch being offer from the so called "right". Quite the opposite.

After all the years and continued divisiveness from that side, now they decide that turnabout, isn't fair play?

Now they want to play thin skinned over the term (R)epelican't?

Teabaggers raised my taxes, to off set another corporate tax cut.

I find that repellent.

Teabaggers created a law that says it's OK to bully little kids for religious reasons.

I find that repellent.

"Conservatives" think FLAKESnews tells the truth and enjoy their insults of all things liberal.

I find that repellent.

There's more of course, but I'll be nice and back off for now.

Care to give me a more accurate name for those you call republicans?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I got the same message. Ain't this fun?

[-] -1 points by Occusuckers (-15) 2 years ago

I take it you are gay. What an idiot. Now go teabag your butt buddy homo Occufag. Gitmo is waiting for you when a conservative becomes president. Hell Obummer will probably do it for fun. He really doesn't feel nor give a rats ass about your anal pain queer.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

wait what?

[-] -3 points by Occusuckers (-15) 2 years ago

Yeah unlike your lesbian stupidity. Geeesh you Occusuckers are such a joke and you still haven't figured that out yet. Look what the gubment schools and indoctrination have finally done to our youth. They are braindead walking zombie idiots. Hows that for some truth that I will be hated severely for here at Occutard central.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I rest my case. :D

[-] -1 points by Occusuckers (-15) 2 years ago

You never had a case to begin with so its like your just trying to impress your Occutard Comrades. when the chips are down where do you think they will be then? Nowhere to be found. Be careful not to get rapped at a Occupy protest.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

im not policing anyone i stated up above that i think we need to get out of these biases and learn to respect other people opinions.

You know i dont agree with you 100% and thats fine but i still respect your opinion like you should mine and i will respect anyone until they do something unmoral

so please your looking like this is an attack no this is a asking of lets do something better than the other guys

if you ever seen red vs blue the argue what animal their car looks more like and this is an example because in the end it could look like a puma but it still a car

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

OIC, you think WallStreet is somehow doing the moral thing.

You think demonizing unions, is the moral thing to do.

You thing many ongoing years of demonizing liberals is the moral thing to do.

Why don't you offer up your opinion on something, and let's see if we can get somewhere.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

why are you picking a fight?

im just saying that we need to look past democrat and republican this isn't a team game with points this is life

i never demonized any of those people i dont agree with them but i never demonized them

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Your opinion is, I'm picking a fight.

Sorry you see it that way, but you did join in on this thread, which was aimed at me, personally, for using the term (R)epelican't.

I think the term fits.

Do you? If not, why?

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

no it a childish behavior from some one i know is old enough to know better all of them are wrong its name calling if you are better than then dont revert to that it makes you look worse than them.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Well then, let's try this.

Show me where a (republican), has given a fail level for support of the Occupy movement.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

none have openly said anything i believe but i dont know a million Republicans since im in college.

we are pretty liberal but yet we dont like any form of party right now because they are not representing our needs we want strong freedom in the market and a strong freedom of choice no matter the issue. i will say that most of the people that i have talked to dont like the movement.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

That was fairly unclear.

What do mean by freedom in the "market"?

What do you mean by "strong" freedom of choice?

I hope you realize these are libe(R)tarian buzz terms, with blurred meanings.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

yeah blurred meaning i dont agree with everything they spit out im a GDI i do what i want when i want. stop with the immature names you are 60 years old

free market where consumers buy and sell things and the companies see little government money or influence

freedom of choice where i can do anything to my body and mine alone because i feel its the best thing for it. Im not saying legalize all drugs and killing people.

honestly i just want it all done in moderation no extremes just everything done ethical fashion not moral just ethical

[-] -1 points by newman (-58) 2 years ago

Where is poor ole pee pants zendog???? boo hoo must be in his Grandma's bed with a pair of her panties wrapped around his head. Poor guy the mighty conservatives beat on him too much!!!!!!

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

At this point, I would love to insult you, but I think you did a pretty good job of insulting yourself.

Besides, this is anti-insulting thread.

[-] -1 points by newman (-58) 2 years ago

You are correct and this is an anti insulting thread (R)epelican't idiot

[-] -1 points by Occusuckers (-15) 2 years ago

He is sitting in gitmo per NDAA. The PTB are just calling out these homos so they can make them disappear. America is not even close to being a free country and these Occutards parade around like they have some sort of rights. Whats even more insane is they demonize those who would help them and suck the dicks of those who hate them.

[-] -1 points by newman (-58) 2 years ago

He is probably setting still licking his wounds, he gets beat up really good on this forum but he is not very smart either

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

that is what i thought the whole replican thing and dumbicat. It is all just so pointless. i admit im more one way on some issues and completely the opposite on others. People need to learn how to move forward on issues

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

People often change their minds as the grow older and more mature. Writing off people who could be allies simply because they vote a certain way at the moment is short-sighted and undisciplined. People who take on the task of representing and unifying 99% of the population have a responsibility to develop the necessary compassion to empathize with people who have different outlooks. People who are unwilling or unable to relate to people who think differently are not worthy of the job. They're just not equipped for the task.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

i like this and acknowledge it i just dont know how to respond

[-] 0 points by wellhungjury (296) 2 years ago

Too bad that this thread almost immediately went to the divisive attacks from the left and the right. Perhaps, a microcosm of what the original thread was about. As long as we remain divided we will surely parish. Think about it, most right and left platform topics are full of bunk. I cannot believe what we spend time arguing about. We have big stuff to deal with and we bicker about the most petty things or at the very least, things that could truly wait for a time when the real bad stuff has been dealt with.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

yeah i know to bad it was to just have people be aware of this so they could see so fit that they change themselves to be more in the middle and understand that we human we have different ideas

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6616) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

good reason to git rid of the red I'd say...

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 2 years ago

Ooops, left your blue colored glasses on.

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

then you are blinded by media

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

Agreed. To be fair, its just a few trolls on here that are causing the "division" on these boards. Some simple fixes on the admin's part would really help out, like letting us up/down vote entire threads, and having some stickys for the best threads to stay on top.

[-] 2 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

ok i was just talking about his in general and i really feel like this is what is happening in america.

but ill do my part

[-] -1 points by Occusuckers (-15) 2 years ago

Better than you trolls parading in our streets sapping the cities you are in funds that would help the poor. How ironic that you Occuturds claim to want to help the poor but only want your debts payed off. BTW that will never happen and the government is going after those who owe college loan debts with SWAT teams and force. Just Google it you idiots don't take my word for it.