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Forum Post: Record Profits for Corporations and Record CEO Pay

Posted 1 year ago on May 25, 2012, 7:14 p.m. EST by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

While average Americans suffered through another year of financial hardship, corporations and CEOs are raking in the dough.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/typical-ceo-made-9-6m-last-ap-study-100231368--finance.html

That's right the "typical CEO" earned $9.6 million last year. Tell us again how tax breaks for the rich create jobs. What a joke.

68 Comments

68 Comments


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[-] 3 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

I've noticed that professional athletes seem to be making an awful lot these days too. More, even, than CEO's, and baseball players don't even produce any jobs except for their maids and gardeners and a few part-time peanut sellers at the ball park. Any thoughts on the gigantic money that they're paying guys like Alex Rodriguez and Vernon Wells, and that insane contract the Broncos gave to Peyton Manning? It seems a bit ridiculous to pay people that much to play a game -- particularly when so many people are out of work. Consumers and ticket buyers ultimately wind up paying for it all in higher ticket prices and in the advertising costs for products like beer that advertise on baseball broadcasts, so once again, the 99% is stuck with the tab. Seems like OWS ought to have a position on this and organize some demonstrations at the ball parks.

I might add that the same thing applies to actors and entertainers. Lady Gaga makes a hell of a lot of money that could be put to good use funding neighborhood health clinics and community gardens and things like that if she weren't permitted to go running around buying mansions and Ferraris with it. Likewise all those other entertainers and actors in Hollywood. They make an awful lot of money for doing something that's essentially frivolous, and most of them certainly seem to be into the conspicuous consumption of the sort that OWS so vehemently disagrees with.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

I absolutely agree with you. The idea that entertainers and athletes make so much money says a good deal about our society; they wouldn't be paid so much if the average American weren't so willing to eat up their slop.

[-] 1 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

The slop you feed on is slop. The slop I consume is high art, my friend. : ) But I digress.

Philosophically speaking, isn't the fact that the slop consumption is voluntary a problem? From a societal cost-benefit standpoint, you could certainly make a case for limiting their salary to say, $500,000 and using the rest for something else more socially productive. That's still rich man's money by any standard -- who here wouldn't play baseball for 6 months a year for that kind of money? And the many hundreds of millions of dollars saved are certainly needed elsewhere.

But on the other hand, if some guy wants to make a contribution to Albert Pujols' next Rolls Royce in the form of a $100 ticket and $10 beers and he's got the money and that's how he wants to spend it (and maybe he's even one of the guys who agitated for the big contract so they could make a pennant run), isn't that really a matter between him and Pujols? If he and his buddies don't mind chipping in their own money to help Pujols buy that Rolls, does anybody else have the right to stop them, or to say Albert shouldn't have it?

If you don't feel like chipping in, nobody's making you. If you feel that you absolutely must see a baseball game, you could always do like I do and go to a minor league game for 5 bucks and buy a microbrew that doesn't advertise on television. The game looks pretty much the same as far as I can tell. Surely we're not saying that major-league baseball is some sort of fundamental human right that has to be made available to the masses at low cost.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

That is the point. For the most part Americans are willing to spend the money for entertainment, which includes sports. So, regardless of whether entertainment figures are overly paid by anyone's opinion is irrelevant, so long as people continue to spend the money for entertainment, but that can be said about any consumer product.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

Of course baseball has some kind special allowance to perpetrate a monoply where all the owners collude and the players have limited rights. In addition most of the teams benefit from local tax breaks or tax bonds for their stadiums. Something not right about that! but it is the national pastime so I guess they get a break.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Professional sports leagues and franchises are a very visible sign of corporate greed and of feeding off of social welfare. Sure people love sports - sure surrounding businesses get customers off of fan participation. But so do other businesses supply customers for surrounding businesses by employing and paying a good salary/wage to be spent in the surrounding communities.

But Hell - Professional sports is in it's way just like the fossil fuel industry. It is large and largely unregulated ( note obscene pay packages ). It receives public money in support of a business that makes multi-billion dollar profits.

Public money that could be better spent on education and on upgrading infrastructure - going green.

This is another sign of greed sickness in society.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

agreed. I would only mention that the players indeed get huge pay packages and it can be hard to see them as workers but whatever they get the owners get much more. So the comparison to 1%, 99% problems goes pretty deep. But yes the whole sports industry is a boon for the 1% owners. The rest of the 1% needs sports distractions desperately. Bread and circuses man.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Proper regulation and we might see family affordable prices again. Put a cap on profits and the business has to reinvest in the business and players or pay into the government/society. Let sports hero's make extra money selling/advertizing. No one need to make 36,000,000 dollars. put excessive payroll money like that into universal health care and into supporting the not so highly paid retired sports players health maintenance issues for injuries suffered on the job.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

I like money set aside for the low paying retired, especially those whose health is suffering as a result. Perhaps something can be done for the college kids who get no money and who mostly do not go on to pro ball. In the end I know the plays make huge money but still they are the workers and so the 1% owners must be making a lot more. I would balance the redirected money from all.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Colleges make big money off of collegiate sports. BIG MONEY. That money should go to a free ride to every player - star or not. It should also go towards supporting those who are physically damaged by their participation some sort of medical trust fund or something. I believe they should also receive some sort of support stipend so that they can live well while going to school. The rest of that sports money should go into reducing tuition for all as well as expanding educational prospects to keep pace with the advancement of technology in every day life as well as in business.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

and somehow the colleges need to be made to ensure all players have a real education.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - none of this you are here to be meat on the field. Actually teach them to be prepared for a life outside of sports - and this issue goes to high-school athletic programs as well.

[-] 3 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

And finally (and this might be most difficult) somehow we need to divorce the negative macho bully jocky mentality from the playing of sports. That is probably too deep and too anathema from the whole culture. But there it is. I said it. Support OWS Vote out anti jock politicians. ;) just kiddin!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - LOf'nL - One thing I think needs strongly to be addressed is morals/ethics/compassion/understanding self/understanding others.

That society should protect support and uplift it's members - all of it's members - and that protecting the weak is an honorable as well as heroic thing to do.

[-] 2 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

You may be older, but I'm no kid either. (almost 50) You are just more careful with your words, maybe more educated. But I'm certainly quick and dirty. Maybe less thoughtful. (my girlfriend might say. lol)

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Nothing wrong with plain talk. More honest than many who insist on being genteel.

BTW - I was old in elementary school - in fact that was my nickname in 2nd grade.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

Yes. there you go. You say it better than me.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I'm an old guy - I have had more practice?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

college governments can pass a call in September to have an election holiday in November

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

public sports are a celebration of health

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sure. Don't do steroids to get ahead. Eat them instead from your area corporate food provider and give the medical community a needed boost in revenue.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20500) 1 year ago

Thanks for shedding light on the real enemy of OWS. It's not Dem co-opters or anarchists, lol, it's unbridled greed! Let's keep focused on why we are really here.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

I'm an anarchist, but don't really care who is at my side as long as we're fighting the same enemy.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20500) 1 year ago

That's my point. We're not all going to agree 100% but we do agree on a lot and need to stick together to keep this movement big, as in "We are the 99%."

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

We are the 99% only if we represent most workers of every political persuasion.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20500) 1 year ago

Yes and we can do that!

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[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

What's also a joke is that congress writes tax laws and loopholes that allow corporations to pay NO TAXES at all. No wonder they have record profits!

REVEALED: The 30 American Companies That Paid Less Than $0 In Income Tax Over The Last 3 Years

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/these-are-the-30-american-companies-that-paid-less-than-zero-income-tax-from-2008-2010-2011-11#ixzz1w65zPJkj

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

Yes, even if they pay taxes, that hardly justifies some of the exhorbitant profits. We should probably begin to push the idea of worker-owned companies, where profits return to the workers.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Yeah, but look at what DKAtoday just posted above using Pepco Holdings as an example. 57.6% of their profits came from our treasury. Our tax money paid for over half their earnings. Their tax rate is negative (-) 57.6%!!

I think it's less about their profits, and more about all of us being robbed by corporations, that are extracting money from the treasury and that this action is being enabled by our government. I do like the idea of worker-owned companies though.

It's one thing not to pay taxes; it's another to steal from us!

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

The politicians steal from us as well. The solution is probably to eliminate the politicians and change how companies are owned and operated.

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[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Look at the energy and holding companies. Look at our weak energy infrastructure. WTF.

That's an interesting list:

Corning

What is it?: A technology based company with 5 segments: Display Technologies, Telecommunications, Environmental Technologies, Specialty Materials and Life Sciences.

'08-'10 Profit: $1,977,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-4,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -0.2%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


DTE Energy

What is it: A Detroit-based energy company that distributes, stores, sells, and transmits electricity, natural gas and oil.

'08-'10 Profit: $2,551,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-17,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -0.7%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Honeywell International

AP

What is it: A technology and manufacturing company that deal with anything from aerospace technology to home security.

'08-'10 Profit: $4,903,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-34,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -0.7%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Mattel

via Luxist

What is it: A toy company.

'08-'10 Profit: $1,020,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-9,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -0.9%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


El Paso Corporation

What is it: A gas exploration and distribution company.

'08-'10 Profit: $4,903,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-41,000,0000

'08-'10 Rate: -1.0%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Wells Fargo

[clint] via flickr

What is it: A banking a financial services company.

'08-'10 Profit: $49,370,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-681,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -1.4%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Boeing

ap

What is it: An aerospace manufacturing and technology company

'08-'10 Profit: $9,735,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-178,00,000

'08-'10 Rate: -1.8%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Navistar International

What is it: An international holding company.

'08-'10 Profit: $896,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-18,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -2.0%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


NextEra Energy

www.nexteraenergyresources.com

What is it: An electric power company.

'08-'10 Profit: $6,403,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: -$139,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -2.2%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


CMS Energy

What it does: An energy company with three subsidiaries that deal with natural gas, alternative energy and power production.

'08-'10 Profit: $1,292,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-29,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -2.2%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Interpublic Group

What is it: A global advertising and marketing company.

'08-'10 Profit: $571,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-15,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -2.6%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Verizon Communications

What is it: A telecommunications company.

'08-'10 Profit: $35,518,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-951,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -2.9%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Consolidated Edison

Daniel Goodman / Business Insider

What is it: A New York energy provider, it delivers electric gas and steam.

'08-'10 Profit: $4,263,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-127,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -3.0%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


DuPont

What is it: A wide ranging company providing services in sectors from agriculture to construction

'08-'10 Profit: $2,124,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-72,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -3.4%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Duke Energy

What it does: A power company mostly focusing on distributing electricity and natural gas in the Southeastern Midwestern United States.

'08-'10 Profit: $5,475,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-216,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -3.4%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Wisconsin Energy

What is it: A diversified holding company focusing on power and utilities.

'08-'10 Profit: $1,725,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-85,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -4.9%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Cont.

Look at the energy and holding companies. Look at our weak energy infrastructure. WTF.

That's an interesting list:

Baxter International

A blind employee tests latex gloves at a Baxter plant in Penang

AP

What is it: A global healthcare company.

'08-'10 Profit: $926,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-66,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -7.1%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Ryder System

What is it: A transportation and supply chain management company.

'08-'10 Profit: $627,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-46,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -7.3%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Con-way

What is it: A company that provides transportation and supply chain management solutions for industrial companies.

'08-'10 Profit: $286,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-26,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -9.1%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


American Electric Power

What is it: A holding company whose subsidiaries include: Appalachian Power Company (APCo), Columbus Southern Power Company (CSPCo), Indiana Michigan Power Company (I&M), Kentucky Power Company (KPCo), and more.

'08-'10 Profit: $5,899,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-545,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -9.2%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Integrys Energy Group

What is it: a diversified energy holding company with regulated natural gas and electric utility operations, non-regulated energy operations, and an approximate 34% equity ownership interest in American Transmission Company LLC (ATC).

'08-'10 Profit: $818,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-92,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -11.3%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Atmos Energy

What is it: Mainly a natural gas distribution, storage and transmission company.

'08-'10 Profit: $897,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-104,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -11.3%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Tenet Healthcare

What is it: A healthcare company that operates hospitals and other healthcare facilties.

'08-'10 Profit: $415,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-48,00,000

'08-'10 Rate: -11.6%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


CenterPoint Energy

What is it: A public utility holding company.

'08-'10 Profit: $1,931,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-284,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -14.7%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


NiSource

What is it: A diversified energy holding company with services in natural gas, electricity and other products and services to approximately 3.8 million customers located within a corridor that runs from the Gulf Coast through the Midwest to New England.

'08-'10 Profit: $1,385,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-284,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -16.4%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Computer Sciences

What it is: An information technology (IT) and professional services company.

'08-'10 Profit: $1,666,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-305,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -18.3%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


PG&E Corp.

www.flickr.com

What is it: A holding company whose primary purpose is to hold interests in energy-based businesses. PG&E Corporation conducts its business principally through Pacific Gas and Electric Company (Utility), operating in northern and central California.

'08-'10 Profit: $4,855,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-1,027,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -21.2%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Paccar

What is it: A company that designs, manufactures and handles customer support of light, medium and heavy-duty trucks under the Kenworth, Peterbilt and DAF nameplates. PACCAR also provides customized financial services, information technology and truck parts related to its principle business.

'08-'10 Profit: $365,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-112,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -30.5%


General Electric

Mykl Roventine via flickr

What is it: A diversified technology and financial services corporation.

'08-'10 Profit: $10,460,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-4737,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -45.3%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy


Pepco Holdings

What is it: A holding company that, through regulated public utility subsidiaries, is engaged in the transmission, distribution and default supply of electricity and the distribution and supply of natural gas

'08-'10 Profit: $882,000,000

'08-'10 Tax: $-508,000,000

'08-'10 Rate: -57.6%

Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

CEO and Board of Directors compensation started to go into the stratosphere at about the same time the banks were deregulated.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

According to one website in 1979 (before this second bout of trickle-down economics) the average CEO earned about 40 times what the average worker made, now the site says, CEOs earn about 500 times what the average worker earns. http://www.kyklosproductions.com/articles/wages.html

The author says that if median American wages had risen in the same proportion to CEO salaries since 1979, most workers would be earning about $200,000 per year.

I can't speak for the accuracy of the author's figures, but the figures I posted and from other sites definitely prove worker-wage-to-CEO-salary disparity has widened in an unbelievable, purposeful, and unjust way since Ronnie the Popular took office.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

Yes, it depends on the years the comparison is made, and of course who is supplying the info. Off the top of my head, i remember the average CEO made 30-35 times as much as the average worker 30 years ago, and now that figure is 200-300 times as much. Either your figures or mine, this is a screwed up trend.

The above trend combined with trickle down (that is not trickling down :-) economics is one of the main reasons we are in the pickle that we are in today. The really big picture though is the harmful effects of neoliberalism which put corporate interests before the peoples interests. Politicians will always dress up this corrupt dynamic so that it looks real pretty, but in reality it is extremely ugly, if you are one of the 99%, anyway.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

I believe the economic indicatators, the increasing disparity of wealth, and growing unrest among workers have reached the critical point.

This all leads me to believe a major social upheaval is on the way.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 1 year ago

Yes, "the major social upheval" is underway. It's called Occupy Wall Street! Welcome aboard.....next stop.....'a government that is representative of the people.' Like me, the more you learn of the crisis we are in, and how intertwined our problems are, you may want to go further than that. We will all have to make that decision at some point.

[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 1 year ago
  • I started the following as a new thread, but someone commented that Bilderbergers are a conspiracy theory, so I took it down. But I thought the Occupy movement was going to be there to protest their greed and everything. Does anyone know?
  • I got the following encouraging email from Oath Keepers about them coming to the Bilderberg meeting next weekend. I read that Occupiers will be there too. Is the Occupy Bilderberg protest not part of the Occupy movement? This site talks about it: http://theintelhub.com/2012/05/20/occupy-bilderberg-2012-we-need-your-support/

  • Oath Keepers will be at the protests against the elitist Bilderberg meeting at the Westfields Marriott in Chantilly, Virginia from 7 AM on May 31st until 6 PM on June 3rd.

  • The purpose of Oath Keepers being there will be to outreach to any current serving police and military who may be tasked with security, and to keep an eye on the goings on - to "watch the watchers" - and support the rights of the protesters to peaceably assemble and give this bunch of globalist elitists a piece of their minds.
  • Do the globalist elitists who attend Bilderberg deserve to be protested? Absolutely. In a perverse irony, Oath Keepers will be in DC this Memorial Day Weekend at the huge Rolling Thunder rally to honor our fallen war dead who fought against exactly the same kind of tyranny and oppression these elitists want to impose on us Americans, along with the rest of the world. So, yes, they do indeed deserve to be protested.
  • However, as stated above, the mission of the Oath Keepers who will be there will not be to protest, but to perform our watch, in support of the rights of the protesters and to outreach to the police and military, and even to the private security, encouraging them to honor their oaths and respect the rights of the people. Think of us as "liberty police" and military.
  • All Oath Keepers are encouraged to attend if you can. We have Oath Keepers members flying or driving in from all over the country, including a contingent from our awesome Southern California Chapter (have push cards will travel!). Oath Keepers Founder and President, Stewart Rhodes, will be there, along with several state chapter presidents. But if you come in your Oath Keepers gear (shirts, hats, etc.) please keep in mind our purpose for being there. Let's conduct ourselves as "quiet professionals" and let our presence speak loud and clear. And that will mean no protesting or yelling in your Oath Keepers gear. A stern glare from us works better anyway, when it comes to the Bilderberg clowns. As for the police and military, professional courtesy, but also a firm and principled stand on the rights of the protesters, will be the order of the day. Dress sharp, be sharp, and stay cool as cucumbers. Recommended clothing is a black polo shirt, Oath Keepers hat, and khaki pants. But if you don't have a hat, then an Oath Keepers shirt is OK.
  • Anyone who wants to protest, please do not do so while wearing Oath Keepers gear. Wear something else. Pick one or the other. If you put on an Oath Keepers shirt or hat, you are now one of the disciplined quiet professionals there to do a mission. If you put on other gear, then you are a protester. Pick which role you will play and stick with it. This way we will not be as vulnerable to spin from hostile media and propaganda outfits, and we will also be far, far more effective.
  • Any Oath Keepers peace officers who can attend, by all means, please do! We will need you there to serve as peace officer liaisons as we will make a very concerted effort to speak with the police present. We will have some officers in attendance, but more is always better at such events.
  • Any questions, please ask in the comments or on our members forum. For the Republic! Oath Keepers
[-] 2 points by Renneye (3166) 1 year ago

Great post !! Get the oligarchs and monarchs out of the positions of power to influence policy !! The Bilderbergs have been exposed and are worried. Last year the meeting was cut short and the members scattered for fear of being arrested. Jim Tucker rocks!

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

I can't answer your question about whether Occupy will be there or not. Perhaps someone involved in one of the Occupy Virginia assemblies might be able to answer.

Hope the protest goes well, and those dedicated to uphold the rights of the protestors do well.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4024) 1 year ago

Hi Titus, Good post. Best Regards

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

Hi, Nevada1, keep up the good fight.

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[-] 0 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

Please show me the link between CEO salary and lack of job creation.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Look at pay scales for the last 40 years and see the decline of the worker.

Look at the outsourcing of jobs to foreign soil sweat shops then look at all of the unemployed labor in the USA today.

Nuff said.

[-] 0 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

Lets assume a near min wage worker whose salary is around $30,000. Assuming we entirely get rid of the CEO or the CEO works for zero salary (which are the most extreme cases), we can only hire on average 320 workers. But then

  1. It does not account for the additional administrative/managerial workers the company would have to hire to manage the extra 320 employees. So you will need more line managers, a few extra HR Staff etc.

  2. There will always be a CEO and he/she would always take home a salary.

So may be a more correct figure would be 150 extra employees, that too the min wage kind of workers. If you consider more specialized and skilled workers the number would be even less.

And this article only looks at salaries of CEO of some of the bigger companies. In midcap or smaller firms, the salaries would be much lower, some even less than a million dollars.

As for outsourcing to sweat shops, I think you need to go there and see if those really are sweat shops. People there work proper shifts of 9 hours with well defined breaks in between. The American public loves to demonize the competition and hence the view that countries like China and India run sweat shops. And whatever info comes to support that view is happily touted by the media and whatever does not fit in with that view is nicely suppressed. I see outsourcing as a reality of life and whining and complaining won't help. It is better for us in the long run if we concentrated on things we do well instead of trying to compete purely on labor cost.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

30,000.00 would be a bit above minimum wage - quite a bit above minimum wage. Unless minimum wage is increased to around 16.00 or 17.00 dollars an hour.

Where do you get the need for all of the additional managerial staff? You got rid of the CEO you didn't hire additional workers.

Your hypothetical is flawed or you laid out a flawed hypothetical.

I stopped reading when you went off the rails with the ridding of the CEO causing the need to hire all that extra management due to that fact I presume.

[-] -1 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

What I am saying is, even if you laid off the CEO, you would only have enough money to hire another 300 or so low level employees. The very article you quoted says the average CEO made 244 times the average employee; ergo you pay zero salary to the CEO then you can only get another 244 average employees.

As for managerial staff, when you hire more workers you need more managers to manage them. That's what happens in organizations, in case you have ever worked in one. when you hire another 200-300 workers you would probably need another 5-10 higher level employees to manage and support them.

Looks like you have trouble understanding simple english. And you wonder why no one hires occutards.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I didn't quote an article. But what says you would need to hire any more employees? Hhmmm? You could get on with the staff you have - just pay them better. Same with every business with an arterial clogging CEO pay package.

The increase of money to the workers would go straight into the economy and support business growth due to increased spending by the working population.


BTW - be careful of your insults that one you just used? Can be a banning offense.

[-] -1 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

Paying people more does not necessarily make them more productive. Paying me double would not reduce by half the time it takes for me to create a presentation, conduct market analysis for a product. Paying me thrice would not reduce my travel times by one third, it would not also not result in me conducting my meetings at thrice the usual speed.

Besides, your point was that high CEO salaries led to unemployment. So then low CEO salaries should lead to employment and hence additional hiring.

I am scared, you would ban me. My life would come to a stand still if I am banned... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Who said anything about increasing productivity. They are already working hard enough - just are not getting paid for their efforts.

Hang it up mone you got nothing.

[-] 0 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

You said "You could get on with the staff you have, just pay them better".

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

So? with that fat asshole removed from the trough - that recovered or saved revenue could go out to the workers.

See how that Works?

Easy peasy.

[-] 0 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

Yes I am sure companies can function without CEOs. Is it not?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You bet the ones I've known have been rather useless.

Extreme Back-Riders.

[-] 0 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

How many CEOs have you known? How many have you met? For that matter, how far up the corporate ladder have you made it to?

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

Actually modern typical CEOs make (at $9.6 million) close to 400 times what the typical American worker makes (at $26,000). You also neglected the ever-increasing corporate profits, while real wages for the typical Americans went down or stagnated.

You do see the picture? Trickle down hasn't worked; all the money has trickled up.

[-] 1 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

The figures are in the very article itself. It says the average CEO makes around 240 times the average non CEO employee. Besides $26k is at the uttter low end of the spectrum. A company doesn't only consist of the janitor and cafeteria guy.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

I took my figures for the median American wage from this site: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/us-incomes-falling-as-optimism-reaches-10-year-low_n_1022118.html

The article was last updated in January of this year. It also points out the median wage for workers has dropped 7% in the last ten years. Furthermore, a Gallup poll disclosed 20% of American adults rate their financial situation as "poor."

Even the conservative Wall Street Journal reports typical American income will not return to pre-recession levels for at least the next decade.

Where the hell is the trickle down? I guess Will Rogers was right when during the Great Depression he said, "Money was all appropriated for the top in hopes that it would trickle down to the needy." Trickle down hasn't worked any better this time. Somehow I think people would have learned from Herbert Hoover's mistakes. The GOP should change its name to reflect its heritage and trust in Hoover.

[-] 0 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

Yes I know what the median American wage is. But then this article only takes CEO salaries of a section of companies, not every company in the country. Hence comparing that figure with US median wage would be like comparing Apples to oranges. In my company, I havent known anyone who makes less than $40k-$50k, janitors and others aside.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

I could have used articles with even worse figures but from articles that may be politically tainted. http://www.kyklosproductions.com/articles/wages.html

I wonder where you live and I don't mean geographically to have such a distorted view of American society.

The 1% know what's going on; most posters on this forum know what's going on; only a blind segment of American workers seem to believe the economy is working or will work sometime soon "down by the river."

They are little more than judas goats planted to lead the flock of workers through doors painted all around with dollar signs in the forms of angel wings, and above an inscription that reads, "Bend over and kiss your ass good-bye."

[-] 0 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

Please, show me the jobs created by tax cuts for the wealthy. Instead, those cuts have only been used to up profits and CEO salaries. Meanwhile, the average citizen still faces the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

I want to ask why all those promised jobs for the tax cuts and benefits and bail outs for corporations never materialized. Wasn't that the point of trickle-down economics? Everyone would benefit. LOL.

[-] 1 points by monetarist (40) 1 year ago

Jobs are less because companies do not any longer have the necessary demand as pre 2008 time. As demand catches on, more people will gradually be hired.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

I hope I'm still alive in that sweet bye-and bye.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I saw the report on PBS news hour. Everyone but the few are hurting. How does that work?

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

It's called bend over and grab your ankles.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - then the sadistic bastards try to ram a shredded 2x2

Down with white collar corporate corrupt greedy criminals.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2367) from Boulder City, NV 1 year ago

They've already done that. Time to fight back EVERY way we can.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - a fight on all fronts take no corrupt greedy criminal white collar corrupt bastards prisoner. Show em the Bernie Madoff Process for self improvement. {:-O