Forum Post: Rebels and Warriors of OWS - Fixing Our USA Health Care Problem is Easy
Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 1, 2012, 10:53 p.m. EST by owsleader2038
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
It's a combination of doctors, equipment suppliers, health care providers and insurance companies.
So, once we get a handle on what they charge, then things will change.
* The above is the BIG LIE by the AMA and BIG Pharmacy's ... Here is the truth
The equipment is all made in Asia, virtually free.
The health provider need only be a clinic, a shoe box or tent, with a guy/gal with knowledge, and a box of pills.
Fuck the insurance company's they bring nothing to the health care except misery and bankruptcy.
Doctors are cheap, Chavez has proved this in Venezuela, let any child/student who wants to be a doctor be a doctor, ... problem solved. We spend $3 Trillion a year for medical in the USA. If just 10% of that money were spent to build public hospitals and pay for free medical education nobody in the USA would ever fear being sick.
Equipment is cheap, don't let them kid you in mass produced just like an iPhone, any diagnostic tool is dirt cheap. The iPhone is a classic example because it exceeds the computational power of an 1970's IBM mainframe, and technically is more sophisticated than any medical device on the market. Yet China can produce the device for $100 in quality production. Anything can be said for any medical tool used in the world.
A provider is just a clean-room, or a box on the street, or a shop, .. nothing fancy about where biz is done, long ago in USA it used to be house-calls when you were sick, the fucking doctor came to you looking for money to feed his family.
MY HOW THE AMA and US GOVERMENT Has fucked the people
Does this mean you have changed your perspective since arriving here or are you being sarcastic? I am uncertain if I should even comment.
If you have a point or wish to contribute do so, ... but personal attacks just prove your a poorly programmed OWS BOT.
FUCK YOU, if I had a perspective in a prior life tell us about it, ... if you wish to attack by innuendo or just plain fucking stupidity do it with someone else.
Whoa, I did not mean anything negative! I remember talking to a user named 'owsleader' and I thought you might have been banned and started a new account. This post has a completely different view than the last post I was chatting with 'owsleader'. I am sorry for making this error.
I agree that the health care system is just another scam especially with the HMOs. I have unfortunately been screwed over by the whole system. Screwed over is almost an understatement since it affects my entire family.
Bail, there are many free country's in the world with health care cheaper than dog food, any body who lives in the USA is an idiot.
thanks for getting my comments deleted.
I would say that it was on topic because medical personal deserve to get paid well they deal with everyone that they deal with. The equipment they use is expensive because it uses precious metals and radioactive material that are hard to find and when found hard to obtain. For example Titanium is a very expensive metal that is used for hip transplants and to make that single piece it must go through a precise machine. I have personally work with one of these machines and we could only cut one layer because of expenses. This machine cost roughly $250,000.00. So it is impractical to say that we can just have cheap machines made in china. Because china builders build it worse than we do.
Now lets talk about the people who operate the machines. Since most of The medical field has to be trained how to read precisely what they are given it cost money. Then we have the equipment and medical devices that they have to train to use properly. I know personally how long they work, my roommate who is in pharmacy school has to remember the top 100 pills of the week. I see these kids work harder than most on campus and to say that they don't deserve money is a slap to the face. It is punishing kids who want to do good in the world it crushes dreams.
To punish kids because they are going to make money at of college because the choose something practical and useful is wrong. We made sacrifices and we still do every day. Money isn't the reason we go into these fields it is just payment for us working hard. The real reason we go into these fields is to help research new ideas and innovate new products. If you ever want to find the answers to anything, you will pay your Doctors and Engineers very well because we are the future of man kind.
. For example Titanium is a very expensive metal that is used for hip transplants and to make that single piece it must go through a precise machine
In Russia titanium is so cheap they almost give it away, only in America are people fed shit about how expensive something is to justify robbery.
Oh, ... we're going to compare engineers and doctors now, ... you know engineers lost their job's years ago, ... all now gone to India, and China,
See you medical whores need to understand its your turn now to see your salary go to min-wage,
What part of the future don't you understand?
http://www.purdueesc.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Guidebook-for-website.pdf
im not going to touch the Russian titanium im just going to let you know japan and United states make a better quality of metals than the world
that was a job fair i went to last fall and got a job/internship from in America i add as an engineer.
I think its a insult to have a job that requires that much education to be minimum-wage. wages reflect the amount of education we get.
lets compare trash men vs a Simple Doctor in experimental situation. they both went to the same k-12 schools and were neighbors both had same style of parents and learning atmosphere. The Trash man wasn't so good with school never went never studied due to his own reason. On the other hand the a doctor as a kid went to school everyday work real hard to go to college. Now the trash man didn't get to go to college since he didn't work hard so he was stuck doing simple jobs until he became a trash man around his 20's and makes $34,000.00 national average. The doctor went through 8 years of additional schooling paid half with student loans and then did 2 years of residency his schooling cost $28,685 average he graduated with $114,740 in debt. So after all of this work in his hard life he is now 28 and is a full time doctor who is paid national average of $72,000. Now 34,000 vs 72,000 isn't to bad compared to the work that the doctor put in. Now since you said that they to should be paid the same amount. Where is the reward to put in hard work and not get it out. Now money is something that does motivate but is not the only thing there are many others such as perks and satisfaction. I see no reason not to pay these people the amount of money they get paid.
What part of the future do you not understand things cost money so show respect to the makers of a modern society.
all sources of salaries come from this http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/t-medical+doctor http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-trash+man
Russian titanium im just going to let you know japan and United states make a better quality of metals than the world
That's really funny as shit the RUSSIAN space station is the only on earth that works, its the only country that can put men in space, because its the only country on earth that can produce these materials at low cost and not fuck its self in the ASS.
Russia doesn't spend almost 25% of its GDP on medical, probably less than 5%, ...
Nobody, and I mean Nobody can justify the how the US system fucks its citizens.
i like how you ignore relevant stuff for something that isn't true
A.) NASA got its funding back source: http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/30/nasa-mmo-gets-kickstarter-funding-beta-in-2012/ or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA B.) there is no Russian only space station The is the ISS which we built together source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station or http://www.shuttlepresskit.com/ISS_OVR/index.htm
and nobody can justify the fact you OWS just are greedy and jealous of people who work when they were young to be successful when they are older. Reap what you sow and i plan reaping a lot so ill plant a lot.
On topic medicine will only get cheaper if new ways of getting metals and chemicals are some how easier to make/ find
i suggest you read more
Cost of medical in US, is a crime against humanity.
Rebels and warriors don't worry about healthcare.
Rebels and warriors need to repair their broken bones and hearts as much as parasites ( US Government ) need to suck blood from US citizens.
The cost of manufacturing parts is a fraction of the cost of medical devices, (or the iPod, for that matter). Most costs are in R&D and the prolonged testing of the devices prior to their manufacture and use in standard medicine.
Free clinics are a great idea. Their establishment should be a national priority. But they can't all have MRI machines, and laboratories, and surgeries. They are great for the majority of medical issues: sprained wrists, the flu, etc, but are not effective for issues like advanced heart disease or cancer. They don't provide ongoing nursing care for people with Alhzheimers, or are bedridden. For anything other than routine preventative care or minor problems, medical care is expensive.
Yes, there should and must be universal, single payer health care in the US. Yes, medical education should and must be subsidized here. Fee for service healthcare is a bad joke with death and suffering as its punch line.
But this particular argument, with little resemblance to facts, is not the one to make for it. Equipment is anything but cheap. Nor it is the main driving force in the massive increases in health care costs, although it is among them. The culprits are the fee for service model and the protection of insurance company and big pharma profits.
The main argument is a moral one, not an economic one. Affordable, universal health care should be a given in any society that claims to be driven by human values, regardless of the cost.
Your last sentence is spot-on.
But to quote that wall-street movie "GREED", ...
The business of america is business, and anybody that tells you that human-values is on the list, ... doesn't have a clue,
The US only worship's money, ... and power.
There is no moral concern for the fellow man,
The problem today is that the AMA is just one UNION ( since 1910, its a doctors union ) that has been allowed to rob the USA, the AMA get's 3 Trillion a year spent on medical that's 1/5 of the GDP, problem is there are 100's of AMA type unions all trying to fuck the US people, like the insurance industry, ... so what we have now is too many fuck-ers and the fuck-ees are broke, ...
Most members of the AMA favor universal health care. They favor abolishing the fee for service system. They are not the culprits (although they were 40 years ago, but that has changed). Insurance companies and big pharma are the criminals.
Along with corporate Health care providers. $1500.00 a day for a bed? Sounds like a military hardware purchase - $500.00 toilet seat, $ 1500.00 screwdriver.
They are charging for hidden costs. On the hospital there are nearly three dozen nurses, several doctors,nurse assistants, a couple of social workers, administrators, and more that have to get paid who are all working for the patient. Plus, there are computers, x-ray, MRI machines, and a whole lot of other equipment that has been bought and need to be paid for. Plus, they almost never get paid what's on the bill: it's just an opening bid to the insurance companies. Hospitals rarely, if ever, make a profit, regardless of the seemingly exorbitant charges. That should indicate how much the costs really are.
This is like a RABID DOG having gone good.
Read WIKI, and study post 1910 history of AMA,
The old RABID dog is only in 'favor' cuz even a village idiot ( US citizen ) knows that the medical biz in non-sustainable, as the US pays the most in the world for health care and gets the worst, ..
Funny the US spends the most per child for education and is the worst, ...
In fact in virtually every human need US citizens pay the most and get the worst possible service,
Ok so the old guard of medicine see's the writing on the wall, and after 110 years of FUCKING the US citizenry ( 1910 forward AMA unions fucked USA ), ... .. OK you said doctor, ..
But the real fucking problem here is that I'm talking about doctors getting paid $20/hour and clinics being almost free to everyone, and the AMA wants to own everything PHARMA, INSURANCE, and be the money-keeper ( ALL 3 Trillion ), ...
Here's the deal EPA, .. its all going down,
The Pharma is OUT, the Insurance is going down, and all doctors will be making slightly over min-wage? WHy not??
Paramedics have long been paid $7/hour nation-wide and in general an EMT-4 can do as much as a doctor in most GP shit.
IT's game over the AMA must be taken OUT.
This apologist tells us that the AMA no longer bites, I tell you that this dog has biting ( fucking the people ) in its blood.
Universal Health Care is CODE for BIG MEDICAL UNIONS,...
WHat I'm advocating is clinics everywhere almost free and NO AMA running the show from WASH-DC.
The AMA is just a tax collector, ..
KILL the AMA, doctors aren't hurting, they are the problem, rich greedy doctors MUST be removed from the business.
I have ZERO problem with doctors making money. My problem is the insurance companies and big pharma. I need, to keep me from being crippled or dead, a drug that, for a single dose twice a month, $20,000 per year. Without insurance I can't get it at all. My doctor prescribed twice the amount was getting before the insurance (cobra) ran out. The insurance company won't provide it. Since i lost me job, and insurance, for becoming ill, I can't afford it. I will very likely wind up in a wheelchair and dead. My doctor saved my life. As far as I'm concerned, she can make as much as she wants. Big pharma and the insurance companies are literally killing me, disabling me first.
Sorry for your troubles, epa1nter. You're a great contributor here.
Thank you very much. I appreciate your posts as well.
If your telling the truth, I sympathize, ... but from everything I read before you have posted I feel that this is just a means of yours.
IMHO we have to think about the majority, to have clinics everywhere virtually free. That people have to take responsibility to exercise and stay fit and eat well. Most USA activity ( couch potato ) tends to lead to terrible problems post 50+ years of age.
I have said before I'm NOT talking about fixing the problems that cost $10Million, I'm talking about giving people of all age easy access to a clinic nearby 24-7 that costs $10 or less and includes pills. Its their JOBto stay fit and eat well.
With regards to folks who have smoked or drink fucked their health,...
This thread is not about you lets start a new thread about you
In your HUMBLE opinion? That's a first. Yet, I agree. I think free clinics should be ubiquitous. And taxes should pay for them.
I told my personal story for a reason; to highlight that insurance companies and big pharma are the criminals, not the current AMA, which is doctors. The point is that you see conspiracies everywhere except the places where they really exist. Doctors have every right to make a very good living. They are trying to keep people alive. EMT's should also make a LOT more money, but if they do, you are likely to scream "UNIONS" and vilify them.
And yet, not a peep about insurance companies that kick people out because they're not profitable enough to remain insured, of pharmaceutical companies that charge amounts no one but the very wealthy can pay to stay alive.
With regards to anyone to has done things to harm themselves, they are (never mind that issues of obesity are strongly correlated with poverty) ALL people and have no less a right to get medical help than you. After all, it seems that all the hallucinogens you took have addled your brain, yet you still need, and maybe even deserve, good psychiatric care. Maybe even the expensive kind.
The most expensive care is long term care of the elderly. How dare they get old enough! They are too expensive for libe(R)tards or psychotics like you to bear. Let 'em drop dead, huh?
Your priorities are nuts and your vision distorted. Get the help you would so quickly deny others. And try to get it from a Doctor who's willing to work for free or beg you for food(because his time and expertise are obviously valueless). Good luck with that.
I told my personal story for a reason; to highlight that insurance companies and big pharma are the criminals, not the current AMA, which is doctors.
Pick & Choose if you wish, but the first thing here I did is say that Pharma & Insurance MUST be destroyed, Doctors can stay, but only slightly above min-wage.
Ok I said it again, what part of this doesn't your BOT algorithm understand?
See this is the problem with this BOT shit, they have no heuristics to know what has been said in the past. This is one reason I find OWS so pathetic, if they can't program their BOTS beyond 1970's AI, then why should we let them lead us?
Yup, OWS is pathetic, according to you. You have no heuristics to know what has been said by YOU. Still claim as you did on another one of your incomprehensible posts, that you aren't against OWS? I'm keeping this one on file, so I can remind you the next time you forget what you said.
Really, since OWS is so pathetic, why don't you go away, as you said you would. Or have you forgotten that, too?
I don't want big pharma DESTROYED, only forced to be just. There is a difference. I want them to continue to spend billions on R&D, to create new meds that cure cancer, save heart attack patients, reclaim lives from Parkinson's. I don't even begrudge them a reasonable profit: they are helping literally billions of people. But they should not be allowed to gouge,
I also think there is a place for insurance, as a supplement to universal care, which, no matter what, will have holes in its coverage.
And if you really think Doctors should get slightly above minimum wage, you are as insane as I peg you. You want quality medical care by people you live near poverty? Do you really think enough qualified people would want such a life? The profession would dry up overnight.
You want what you want, and don't bother to think, with your drug addled brain, what the consequences would be. You connect dots that aren't there, and ignore the ones that are. You are a fool.
Doctors should get slightly above minimum wage, you are as insane as I peg you. You want quality medical care by people you live near poverty? Do you really think enough qualified people would want such a life? The profession would dry up overnight.
There are ten's of thousands of doctors worldwide that would love to come to america to practice medicine and they would work at a small fraction of US doctors.
BIG USA PHARMA is dead, today its all made in India.
Medical Insurance is dead, just this past weekend the NY-TIMES had a great article on this subject, ... its dead.
So in my mind PHARMA and INSURANCE are a dead issue because they're already dead,
All we have left to fight is the AMA, and then we can take back health-care,
If spoiled rotten rich doc's don't want to work min-wage, then they can go work in some 3rd world country and fuck people.
I think I'll just let your own delusions speak for themselves.
Others here could use a good laugh.
Do you realize that every response is canned and contains no information, just generalized drivel for what?
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Well, doctors have to pay exorbitant tuition rates and/or take out loans, sick loans, to even become doctors, this in addition to all the work and when you think of it, it's a wonder anyone wants to even be a doctor here. Malpractice insurance, etc. AND, I am certain they cannot practice in a way that they wish because the market dictates them to act in so and so profitable manner. I could never be a doctor here, just like I don't want to be a teacher (at any level) here.
Well once they're making $20/hour, they'll think twice about such debt.
It's obvious that our doctors and the AMA need to go to another country, and we bring in foreign doctors happy to work for $20/hour and whose debt was never accrued.
Regarding malpractice, we handle the same as any third world country, you kill a patient, you die ( The family of the deceased doesn't what all family's do when someone harms their family. Omerta. ) What we have in the USA is when a doctor kills or molests a patient the AMA-UNION protects their ass,
Did I miss anything?
What does this comment have to do with a fast Dog ( rapid ).
Or is it that the dog is not fast, but that it never walks?
Nope still see no connection.
Make everybody a senator...problem solved!
I always thought thee was too much pomp to the degree
this guy's a phoney. he pretends to be this and that but its all bullshit. Hes the guy doing the fucking people.
Equipment is cheap? How much does a pacemaker cost to build? Respretory equipment that works 24/7? Help for the disabled? The training of those people? You read the history but you don't understand.
The Japanese designed and built their own MRI systems. An MRI costs about $100. in Japan. What does it cost here? The top five countries (in terms of outcomes) spend from 8 -12% of their GDP on healthcare with better results (we rank 37th) and we are paying nearly 20% of our GDP. Let's pick one of the five and implement it.
Actually, I would think the US is, really, 39th. Taiwan (where I am posting from) and HongKong are "Chinese territories" -- thus, not listed on the WTO rankings. I got my MRI, here, in 2006, for about $75. The entire two months of visits to specialists (to determine the exact location and cause of my back injury), followed by rehabilitation, cost about another $75, total. The doctors and nurses are paid a lot less; health care companies are illegal; and, I am guessing that medical research, here, does not match, across the board, US research institutes. But, nobody dies, around here, for lack of basic health care; it's unthinkable. Everything is on a single-payer, government-run system. This place has no leftist "communist" tradition (as the tea baggers would identify and assume for such a system) -- quite the opposite, a rightist military dictatorship which evolved into a democracy is the history. The folks, here, can't understand how the mighty U.S. could be so backwards; and, when the better-to-do locals travel to the US, they simply carry their own system with them (fully reimbursed, for all medical expenses, upon their return home). You just can't imagine how bizarre "death panels" and other 2009 "opposition lingo" (to basic medical care) looked, from here.
It is all about the "c" word. Corruption is now our official economic system, as of the Citizens United decision. Your system was designed by Professor Hsiao of the Harvard School of Health, a smart and practical man. We wouldn't think of allowing him to do it for us.
Ours was designed by Lush Rimbaugh and the Neut, Gingrich.
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An iPhone can be made for less than $100, and is a million times more complex than a pacemaker, which is just a clock, 400 year old technology is a pace-maker,
The point is all these medical gadgets are produced for penny's in Asia and then packaged in the USA and sold for +$100,000 ... Just like pill's and everything else, ... but only the USA public has to pay the fake price, ... most people pay the wholesale price which is almost nothing.
i would like to say your correct on this one but your not most of the medical equipment is made in Warsaw Indiana or Carmel Indiana. And the amount of time that goes into these devices to get them legally on the market is years. They will ever be expensive and dont get started on the people it takes 10 years of schooling to become a brain surgeon,
so i dont get this post.
Most medical equipment and all electronic is made in Asia, NOTHING is made in Indiana, name a company, .. nobody would bother manufacturing electronics in the USA.
99.999% of clinic visits don't need a brain surgeon, go to hell with your logic, a GP can be trained in a few years, ... its how the whole world delivers high quality health care,
This is what I hate about thrassy, he's now calling himself DB, he's working at a call center in India, and spouts shit about Indiana, ... but them jobs went to India and CHina years ago ...
Are there any medical device service companies left in Indiana ... Are there any medical device service companies left in Indiana?. Electronics Technician jobs forums.
NO, there are no jobs the companys are gone ..
http://www.manta.com/mb_53_D1_5QN/medical_equipment_device/warsaw_in
there is 43 in Warsaw alone we are talking about medical equipment correct. And for a doctor to be well trained with this and for the public they need more than a couple years of training.
No i live in Indiana and have had the privilege to work for one of them like most of my friends
Are there any medical device service companies left in Indiana ... Are there any medical device service companies left in Indiana?. Electronics Technician jobs forums.
NO, there are no jobs the companys are gone ..
A monkey can be taught to run any machine, this argument that only over-paid american doctor's are smart enough to run machines made in asia, is boring.
Sorry again you must of not looked at this link where the build medical devices and pills its a big deal here.
http://www.manta.com/mb_53_D1_5QN/medical_equipment_device/warsaw_in
or Indiana as a whole
http://www.manta.com/mb_43_D1_15/medical_equipment_device/indiana
Believe me we have jobs and we are proud of it these companies make device on site not in Asia or south america because they have half-life so high that shipping them from outside to the united states would be dumb to do.
please research before you speak
Recently Obama asked Steve Jobs before he died "Can you please make the iPhone in the USA",
Job's replied "It's NEVER coming back, nobody today or in the future will manufacture complex electronic devices in the USA",
That's some heavy shit, and he wanted to support Obama's rhetoric, but the fact is the work is long gone and never coming back.
Why? Now that's a story that could write many a book, but sadly the USA has been working hard to destroy entrepreneur's for years, Hardware left many a year ago, and software left ten years ago.
Why? Because Apple or any Hardware manufacturer can run a prison factory in China, and same for India, they can run prison software company's where employees do what they're told.
Just stating the facts, not suggesting I support, ... but Steven Job's was an asshole and that's how Apple became #1.
You aren't from Indian and you must expect nobody would actually research what was given and just decide any evidence you have is worthy. The list you provide are 100% vendors. None of those companies actually make anything. At most they do the final assembly of products made under their brand name. Even that does not qualify as manufacturing. Whats worse, if you were from Warsaw, you would have pointed to a link with real information, not a link-farm produced by an opportunist web designer.
i from Indiana ive worked on multiple projects for these companies about manufacturing i am a Purdue student in engineering we help people like that. you sir are just mad
Mad? So because someone calls you out, that indicates a flaw or issue with them? Interesting debate skills for a Purdue student. Your lack of punctuation and lazy typing tells me you are also fabricating your education.
junior in the Mechanical Engineering department so take it as it is. to tell the truth i know these places are real manufactures because in our manufacturing process class we went to a few of them and talk about how to improve the process and save money and energy.
well Dan if you really are, you should find better web resources. that site you offer is a link farm. I'm sure you don't think your experience changes the statistics about manufacturing. That was the point. Sorry to assume you to be faking it but we get a lot of that,
I'm a dentist and the implant company I use manufacturers right in Massachusetts.
Are you that guy using paper-clips?
Haha no. If I was, I would be ordering my implant parts from Indonesia, not the company in Massachusetts.
Your post got me thinking though and I looked at some of my other supplies and a lot of them are also made here in the USA. While a lot of medical stuff is made overseas, there is still a lot being made here
You didn't hear about the dentist that got sent to prison this week for using paper-clips in his root-canals? For gawds sake, now we got BOTS posing as dentists, what's next BOTS posing as protesters?
No I read that too, he also was charged with some kind of billing fraud too. I think that is what he really got in trouble for. Paper-clips (sterilized of course) are an accepted material for temporary posts for temporary crowns. It is taught in most US schools. But I think this guy used it as a permanent post, which is obviously no good.
And I have no idea why you would think that I am a bot lol. Because I pointed out that some medical supplies and devices are made in the US?
That's a good point, nobody but thrassy talks about bali or indonesia, ... your a thrassy BOT, ... no doubt.
Thrassy? I swear this place has its own language.
I would love to know what thrassy is, especially since that is what I am apparently haha.
Thrassy is dentist who lives in Bali, that uses paper-clips containing lead and other heavy metals for root-canals, he say's it what all the Dental Schools tell its students to use.
Haha ok man. You just keep doing what your doing. Your style of conversation with basically anyone who questions anything you say on this board, riddled with profanity and insults, is really going to win a lot of people over.
I do hope that our health care system improves though, both because of all it's obvious problems and also so you can stop being so angry. Or at the very least, cheaply obtain the medications you need to stop being so angry.
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