Forum Post: Really? I mean..really?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 27, 2011, 12:43 a.m. EST by TheWholeTruth
(19)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
You people are adorable. Get your facts straight about "the rich". These "rich people" people you are protesting; you couldn't walk a day with them. I'm not talking about corporate CEOs, COOs and CFOs. I'm talking about the average American millionaire. You couldn't live through a day in their shoes. Why? Because they are hard driving, hard working, goal oriented, vision minded, driven machines. They are 90% first generation rich. For your IQ (which is obviously limited to room temperature), this means that they started from nothing and became wealthy. They are small business owners, drive used vehicles and have no debt. They spend less than they make and have worked to build themselves into something. That is ultimately who you are protesting against. Sure, corporate greed is real. Boo hoo. You know what else is real? The fact that you are protesting at high noon on a Wednesday when you could be out making something of yourself. "But you don't know my circumstances!" "You don't know where I am!" "You haven't seen the poverty or walked in my shoes!" Get over yourself. Really? The mature world is laughing at you and the media is using you for fodder until they can find a squirrel that can water ski to fill the time they are currently wasting on your cute charade. The next time you hipsters are riding your fixed gear bike to the nearest Whole Foods while wearing thick rimmed sunglasses, think about how much capitalism goes into your everyday life. Here's a clue since you need one: the single biggest threat to your way of life resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. It'd do you well to march your little pity party there (BYOT: Bring Your Own Tears). If I agreed with you, then we'd both be wrong. This is nothing more than a hissy fit of a spoiled nation. Your grandparents are ashamed of you. I will tell you the truth and only the truth through whatever rose colored glasses you want to try and put on me. You will not win and you will be remembered as ungrateful brats. Just being honest with you. I'm just telling you the truth, you need to hear it. You'll be remembered as brats, a blight on the potential maturity of a generation and an embarrassment to progress. Anyway, when you decide to actually do something about your own life and not blame it on others, good for you. Until then, peace-love-dope.
You're an idiot.
How would you describe yourself from a third-person perspective using the word "he" for yourself?
He's a groovy guy and has a gigantic penis. You're an idiot. Say "Oh, okay." if you agree.
Oh, okay.
I just realized you are probably just angry because you have a small penis.
Gosh, it took you forever to pick up on that... lol
Maybe you should come up with something original instead of calling people names or copying trolls.
But I LIKE calling people names!
Why are you being such a dick?
Because I knew you'd be emo enough to get angry and let me waste your time with a flame war... that was the point all along lol
see how unproductive that was?
Wait a second... You didn't even change the meaning of what I just said. :(
Why would I need to change the meaning of what you said?
And not really. Maybe unproductive for you. I'm having FUN!
Why did you come here anyway? I mean, it's obviously not to try to do anything positive.
I came here to waste your time, so I was productive. Very much so lol.
But it's usually obvious when someone is having fun, they don't have to tell you so. Like Charlie Sheen trying to reinforce the idea that he was "winning".
Good night, I'm going to go sleep tight.
Ahh, that's what I figured. People on the street in the cold fighting for your rights, and you spend all your time trying to waste other people's. I hope you're proud of yourself.
Goodnight!
But sorry if I hurt your feelings.
I'm not sorry if I hurt yours. ;-)
My hypothesis is that you got all these points for the correct usage of "you're" in your insult. A rarity around here. Oh, and I agree.
Did you know the ancient sumerians had civilization and even a written language, but no concept of good or evil?
Interesting. I do know that they projected gods onto all the forces of nature and had one of the earliest forms of dualism, between heaven (An) and earth (Ki)...
[Deleted]
:-)
He is just another of the new generation of "me first, money is everything, screw over everyone else". More to be pitied than laughed at. Thank God for the future of America that there are still more good-hearted people left than there are of his type.
Krankie, Krankie. You have to understand, I'm building a legacy for my family and teaching them to be givers and to use money to help others. You will never understand that because you are the type of person who would try to work for someone like me and whine about it. I would never hire someone like you though because I hire people with integrity. I have an extensive interview process where I weed out people like you, people who don't want to work and only want to take from those who do. You see I am benevolent because I want to be, not because you pitch a tent in a park and cried about my wealth enough to make Uncle Sam step in a steal my money from me to give it to someone as economically worthless as you.
No one knows “the whole truth.” Don't pretend to know it. You're fortunate to have a talent to make money. Making money involves more than hard work. There are people who work very hard, and never get anywhere. Businesses that never get off the ground. Others that fail after short runs. You are one of the lucky ones. Therefore you should be grateful for your ability to build a "legacy" for your family. You clearly have a gift as a businessman/woman (whichever you are) much in the way that some have a talent for being concert pianists. Not every concert pianist gets to play Carnegie Hall however. Many with greater ability than those who actually get to stand on that stage are given the opportunity. This is where luck comes into play and where you should thank your lucky stars instead of criticizing what you don’t understand.
Not everyone who supports these protests is young or a hipster. My son (who can be categorized as a “hipster”) is a musician, works in a Mexican restaurant, and attends college the rest of the time. He’s participated in a few OWS protests but doesn’t live in the park. However, someone has to.
You've more than likely been presented with much opportunity to speak such generalities. Let me give you a little bit of my truth now.. I’m 60, a college grad. My husband has been an unemployed accountant for 3 years now. I’m taking care of a 90 year old mother. Home Aides, who are paid minimum wage by the agency that sends them, take care of her 8 hours, and I take over the other 16 because my mom’s savings are dwindling. –savings once meant to be my inheritance—or “legacy.” We have 2 kids in college who will graduate owing over 50K in student loans each. We have a monthly mortgage plus all the usual bills which are also quickly shrinking money once intended for retirement. I support OWS because there is nothing else out there speaking up for me. Because I fear slipping into poverty level at the rate my life is going. Thousands of Americans have lost homes. Non of them because they are a “hipster sitting in the park.” You might not have this problem, and I don’t know why I’m wasting so much time on your ignorance, but there are little job opportunities for highly experienced and degreed persons over the age of 50 out there. My husband sends resumes out every single day—including weekends. The most he’s offered are temp jobs. Make sure you stabilize this legacy you are building.
My in-laws by the way, are millionaires. They help us in a minimal way. I have too much pride to accept handouts gracefully. They worked their way up to their current social economic status. They are not the one percent, I protest against because I respect and admire their accomplishments, although I do not agree with their conservative political stance. Having money certainly gives those who have it a completely different perspective of the world. In this light, I realize it is impossible to ever change such minds.
I must say, that for the business entrepreneur you claim to be, you don’t sound very educated. Your grammar is lousy and your general way of expression denotes a very small mind. Wall Street fat cats and bank execs who give themselves million dollar bonuses for leaning back relaxed in leather chairs are having it a little less hard than those sitting right now in Zucotti Park under a tent in the snow (1029/11). Suffering elements to make a statement is a lot more work than trading stocks.
Oh, I am not Krankie, and I can tell you something about yourself. You seem to be whining. The person with integrity, and morals, and makes me proud to be an American on this day, are those that started this movement. Government has not worked for the people for a long time. Don't be afraid, because we are going to make your life different. We know Uncle Sam has stolen from us, the 99% for so long we thought it was normal. But now, we have awakened, and are going to change the way they do business. There are too many voices, too many intelligent people all over the world in this movement, and we will not fail. And we do not need to whine. We are all just stating a fact, as one, together.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_backlash/
You're the ones freezing in a park. Who's the idiot? With all that time sitting there, has anyone actually tried to come up w/ a goal, or is the catchy slogan good enough? I'm just curious. I think we should be protesting, but if this protest is all the American people can come up with, then that's pretty sad. This is the epitome of the American people. Lets protest something we don't understand using logic we can't agree on, with goals we haven't come up with yet. Bravo!
Amen.
You're an idiot too. There was this guy called Ghandi. He just wanted some salt without having to pay taxes to the british.
Wow!! Thanks for the lesson. Did he call people idiots and use nicknames like "justfuckingthink"? You must be so proud of yourself.
Actually, he was a racist and womanizer.
If you liken yourselves to Ghandi, you really are setting yourselves up for failure.
B Gone
No no now. I'm smarter that the aggregate total of brain cells of the other people here. Besides, you can't tell me why I'm wrong. Do your parents know you're using their computer?
You're an idiot.
You'd be better off making an argument
No I wouldn't. He's an idiot.
Way to make a point.
Yup. See what happens when people argue with him? Nothing. He's an idiot.
needs paragraphs
I've told you why you are wrong, dozens of times, in 5 separate posts. for some reason you are unwilling to defend your self. I wonder why that is. No spine?
If your going to throw some crap like this out there, you should at least defend your view.
Well, I will entertain you seeing as you have all but begged me to as though you had sense enough to engage an intelligence far beyond your own. Sorry for the delay, chief, I've been at work. Do you know what that is? Just checking. Ahhh...thank you. Another "free thinker" who believes that any common sense uttered in this world comes second hand from another conservative mouthpiece and dismisses it as such. You are an unfortunate being. You know I'm always amazed that when people get scared they always want to go for an easy target like anchors and political pundits. Are you not capable of arguing for yourself? I don't listen to commentators because they have their own agendas too. I'm just telling you what you need to hear the way you need to hear it. You see Indepat, you have done nothing more than throw the blame around. "Yes, every single government endeavor is a disaster, but ask your self why? Because all of them ultimately become handouts for special interest and the ruling elite. That's all they ever become. Our Government has become just one big handout, to special interest, whether it's a voting block, or some industry or company." You said that, big boy. I'll give you something, you are partly right! Now, what are you doing personally to better your own economy? Nothing. Listen, tiger, I have built a debt free personal empire from absolute zero. I have worked harder than you could possibly fathom. Now I gotta say, the fact that the government is dolling out money to special interest groups and bails out institutions that should fail angers me a bit, but it doesn't affect me at all. It doesn't affect you at all. So what now? What do we do? Where should the money go? Not to you, sport. The money being wasted by this government would be better spent on infrastructure, but they won't do it and frankly I couldn't care less. By putting myself into a secure financial situation that you are capable of duplicating if you actually rolled your sleeves up for once in your life, I have effectively made myself recession-proof. But you personally will never own anything because you are too worried about blaming others that you will never get out there and make something of yourself. Then, after you have personally failed at everything because you were too busy pointing fingers, you will continue the blame and circle the drain and waste your life as a miserable shell of someone who could have been. You have your wishbone where your backbone should be. If you don't like the government giving money to speacial interest groups, vote. You lose, junior.
I love how you think your so much more intelligent then everyone else who doesn't hold your view. So arrogant.
The reason I'll call you out on the whole Fox/Rush thing is because your all saying the same exact thing. Their talking points, simplistic at that. Now you claim you didn't get that from them, so I have to ask, did all conservatives simply have a spontaneous, collective thought? Now listen to the zombie utter the following, "hippies, jobless slackers, brats..."
What am I doing? Working and paying taxes mostly.
By the way, "big boy", "Tiger", "sport" come on, sounds childish, lets at least pretend to be adults. Sounds like your on the school playground.
Worked harder than me? How do you know, you don't even know me. I bust my butt every damn day, working, raising a family, and all that entails. Oh yeah, that's right, Rush and Fox news told you I was an out of work slacker who just wants something from the government. I forgot where you get all your info from. Listen, I won't question your work ethic because I don't actually know you. You may work very hard, or not. I just don't know, nor do I care because it has nothing to do with this argument.
Now lets talk about what does effect me. The fact that my government no longer works in our best interest, in this nations best interest, because everything our government does turns into a big give away for someone, and does nothing to solve anything, and that effects me, you, this country as a whole, and future generations. And you see, I have a problem with that.
This isn't about a recession or jobs, and I don't want money from my government, I only want it to work for the common good, for what's best for this country as a whole. Again, I know, Fox told you this was about other stuff.
You end off very classy, again making way to many assumptions about me, like I'm miserable, I want a hand out, I have no back bone, no work ethic, all things that are completely untrue.
You see, while I actually argue with you point by point, you choose to go the personal attack route, with little or no substance or facts to back you up. You claim to be this intelligent person, who was looking to debate, but that was all a sham.
If you'd like to actually debate actual points, then please, respond to any of the other posts I put out there, before I was forced to call you out for asking for a debate then not responding. Please, visit them one by one, and take me on with your views on the actual issues.
Or you can resort to your name calling, childish tactics, and mindless dribble, your choice.
I can predict the future apparently! As I said, when you have nothing to say, you go for FoxNews, Rush and whoever else. By the way, I think for myself and am saying things they wouldn't because they have to protect their jobs. No, I don't know you and no, I don't know your ethic. It really doesn't matter to me, if you are so quick to assume that I take orders from political pundits then I have no qualms about my assuming you are inept in every way. Also, I gave you the answer to your, and when I say 'your and you' I am mainly speaking towards your movement as a whole and not specifically you (don't be so vain; not flattering), dellima in my last post. If you are so fed up with all the corruption and greed; vote. Simple as that, and you know what is better? Politicians have a four year shelf life. Honestly, the more I write this the more I feel I am wasting my time. Indepat, while you may understand what I am trying to say (and I respect you, I really do), I truly believe that the majority of the people here are far too low brow to understand the poverty that is their intellect. When one stood up and said, "Injustice! I blame you! Give me what is mine!" it wasn't hard for other imbeciles to get on board. You are one of the only intelligent people I have encountered here. I beseech you to walk away from the atrocity that is the Occupy Wall Street hissy fit and embrace a goal oriented life plan that betters you. Because when you think about it, they aren't helping each other through this, are they? They are only agreeing with each other. That's it! Even the people who are living in tents at the parks are frustrated because the homeless are asking them for food. These people don't even want to help the homeless! They only want to take. Walk away from this; it's a nowhere street.
I go for Fox and Hannity, because you uttered the buzz words I only hear there, the hippie, jobless slacker etc... I'll ask again, if not there where? and why not the Tea Party, who also hold protests, etc... Why does Fox call OWS hippies, jobless slackers, then the tea party, hardworking, tax paying patriots. Can't have it both ways.
Also Fox and Rush because they are right wing propaganda, the same exact way CNBC and Rachel Maddow, and Keith Oberman are left wing propagandist. It's the same exact thing. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Fox is not "fair" and "balanced". Remember, when someone starts their statement with the word, "honestly" chances are they're about to throw out a bunch of BS. Same with this.
Again, you can change the players all you want, so long as the rules remain the same, nothing will ever change. Both sides have been purchased, and all candidates have been purchased, so it doesn't matter if you choose a, b, c, d, e, or f, they've all been purchased, and if they have any desire to remain in the congress, they will have to continue to play the game. That's the crux of this whole thing; the current rules promote and benefit those who sell out to special interest at the rest of our expense, and that's something everyone should be pissed off about, regardless of political leanings. By the way, politicians do not have a 4 year shelf life, 90% of congressmen are completely safe.
Now while I agree with you that this thing is insane and out of control, unfocused, unorganized and filled with crazy ideas, I truly believe that the single issue, the selling out of out government, is the most important issue of our time, and that it is a national crisis, and that the fate and future of this nation actually hangs in the balance.
The reason I'm in here is to better understand it, and to see if there is any hope of this ever achieving anything. My hopes are low, but if nothing is done now, when you actually have this much outrage over this single issue, then we will never, ever do anything about the money in Government.
Right now this movement is in disarray, but wanting change is not a bad thing, and maybe, this thing will grow up. I can hope, and I definitely won't fight it.
Ive known plenty of assholes just like you. Pompous, ego maniacs. Usually have a very cold marriage, kids are all robots. Congrats.
I think we are starting to attack the person and not the issue at hand.
I think it would be better if we focus on working together to formulate a solution rather than wasting time and energy to quibble.
The most senseless, selfish, working class hero bullshit I've read today (and there's a lot of it here) Who cares about the legacy you have built for yourself? A person who has successfully negotiated a system will view those who have not been successful as lacking the qualities that made themselves successfully. This is the way the mind works, but the claim cannot be logically defended. Simply a case of egocentricity.
If you really want to engage in a debate then lets talk about it issue by issue.
Or maybe your too busy running your "empire", and amazing everyone with your incredible work ethic, and superior intelligence.
What if some big business opened up right next to you and sold the same thing as you for a cheaper price. Then they cry that they need a bailout cause they lost money. Bet you would care then. No one cares about anything till it happens to them. Imagine working in a job for 10 years and you started a family and bought a house. Now you get laid off have no healthcare for your children and cannot afford your mortgage. Bet you would care then.
You are a moron. "Go back to work people". The thing is, we don't need to work any more. We have the technological knowledge to automate an estimated 75% of today's jobs. Technological unemployment is a legitimate, concrete issue that our "economy" faces. Machines can do what we used to have to do by hand. You are so invested in and conditioned by a system that fights and is threatened by technological advancement. The monetary system was created as a vehicle of commerce for SCARCE resources and life necessities. Today, through a spectrum of technological advancements, we have abundance of what used to be scarce. We easily have the technical capability of providing every human with food, water, shelter, etc, theres just not enough money to pay for it. People are suffering not because there is no food for them, but because a game we invented prevents them from having it. Yes, Americans have it better than most, for reasons I won't get into. How can you call them lazy or unappreciative when they are standing up for the sustainability and quality of life for the entirety of mankind, while you want to "be productive" and go slave away so you can consume more useless shit for yourself. Go inform yourself before you try to sound intelligent with a narrow minded, misinformed rant. Oh and one more thing, fuck you you pompous asshole
Every American need only work , I guess, 3 month out of the year to provide for the basic needs of society. We need a new system that recognizes this fact.
This nation was founded on movements like this, this nation moves forward with movements like these. when the government no longer answers to the will of the people, the people need to speak up. Our founding fathers would be proud.
By the way, I'll save you a little reading time. Here's just a bit of what Thomas Jefferson wrote in the D of I.
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it and to institute new Government
Our government no longer works for the common good, it only works for the ruling elite, the 1%, for narrow, self centered, special interest. Or do you actually think your government still works for you?
Again, get you head out of the sand, try and free your mind from the propagandist you cling to. Use your mind and think for yourself for a change.
I'll also go a step further, on your whole, "they would be ashamed of you" comment. who would be, dead people? If you want to go with dead people, somehow being ashamed, lets go back to the founding fathers, who took things into their own hand when their government was unresponsive to their needs, when they found that they had little say in the policies and legislation that effected them. You should read the Declaration of Independence. Read it, and you tell me who they would be disappointed in. It wouldn't be the people demanding change, but the people sitting at home with their heads buried in the sand, pretending everything is okay.
As for people who will be disappointed if we don't do anything, actual living, breathing people, it would be the next generation, when they inherit a broken nation. A diminished nation that became so because it's government stopped working for what was in it's best interest, and only worked for narrow special interests, at the expense of the rest of us, at the expense of the nation.
You're the one who should be ashamed, sitting there doing nothing, railing against those trying to make a difference, trying to take our government back so that it can again work for what's in our national best interest.
Shame on you. You should be embarrassed.
As far as your tirade on how people should be more productive, and stop crying and just accept things the way they are, well it's a good thing the participants of the Civil Rights movement didn't take your advice, if they had where would blacks be today. And what about the suffragan movement, good thing they didn't head your advice or where would you be, no vote, no say, barefoot and pregnant at home? Or where would this nation be if our founding fathers had had the same mentality as you, and hadn't taken to the streets and demanded equal representation. You make me laugh. I guess those Tea Party activists, with their signs, and their marches on Washington are just a bunch of jobless hippies. Hippies? I wonder where you got that from.
Your comments about lazy, jobless, hippies smacks of Republican propaganda, the type of stuff they are howling about on Fox News and on AM radio. Here's a suggestion. why don't you try thinking for yourself for a change, you might be surprised that there's a whole other reality out there contrary to the one that you've been spoon fed.
"Your grandparents are ashamed of you."
Funny shit.
Our grandparents were on the picket lines, the lockouts, the sitdown strikes and the marches that got us where we are today.
So suck it!
Blah, Blah and Blah. That's pretty much what you just wrote there. Couldn't walk a day in their shoes? And they couldn't walk a day in the shoes of some African pleb! Capitalism is just one way of many undiscovered ways of running a human society. And it's not even all that grand; 390, that's the atmospheric concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere. That number might exceed 600 before mid century - does capitalism care? How can I go "make something of myself" when I live in a country bent on destroying the foundations of life on this planet? I have difficulty concentrating when the dialog being discussed around me is insane - how can you change the way people think when they've convinced themselves that the problems don't exist. The status quo is not working.
No, you're incorrect; revolution is exactly what is needed, as peaceful as possible... but it needs to happen. I'm tired of seeing the planet turned into commodity, viewing natural resources as "ours" or "theirs" when it's none of the above! It's everyone's! And capitalism can't compute, it needs to ship up or ship the frak out. And I am trying to make something of myself btw, I'm an electrician running a small-med electrical contracting business with my father. I'm also an EE major - but I'm only one person, but I'm not the only person who cares about these issues, and we're trying to make our voices heard. The human progress you mentioned can't happen when our society is as unsustainable as ours is. But these are problems that can be fixed, we just don't want to admit what fixing them will require.
Avoidance and redirection.......
Hey Joyce, why don't you go to Church and pray for this all to end? You're not contributing here. You're just taunting people.
Redirection! Did you read...
"The next time you hipsters are riding your fixed gear bike to the nearest Whole Foods while wearing thick rimmed sunglasses, think about how much capitalism goes into your everyday life."
Capitalism has given the world many things in combination with scientific progress. That's not to say the progress couldn't have been achieved in another way. I was responding to his implied assertion we should be out there trying to strive in the very system that seeks to destroy us.
The ambiguity of the environmental situation on this planet is long gone - all we need now are better models to fill in the details. And the models tell us we're on a collision course with the natural limits of this planet, and what have we done to prepare? We have presidential nominees wanting to abolish the EPA! And put what in its place!? This is the type of madness I'm talking about, and the "mature" world that's supposed to be laughing at us has had a huge role in this environmental irresponsibility. The mature peoples problems will be the young peoples problems before long.
The thing about environmental discussion is that there's really very little to discuss. The natural systems of this planet are indifferent to our woes, I'd much rather work with the system than against it. Eventually we might have the power to create matter from pure energy, and leave this planet behind for another. But for now, this is our home... we better start thinking in the long term.
Yeah, I agree with you. Joyce doesn't get it and she never will. She's just a distraction. We have maybe a good couple hundred years left on this planet according to environmental science but even that isn't certain. Ozone layers are depleting at a rapid rate thanks to CO2/emissions. Unless we have organic matter creating energy systems we're killing ourselves. This has everything to do with capitalists that want to put environmental debts on the Earth. It just won't work for much longer and we have very little to help it now. The Delaware River basin is one of the largest suppliers of water to the East Coast as per Mark Ruffalo, soon it will be fracked and we'll all be drinking methane gas and lighting our faucets on fire.
You must love us since you spent so much time here!!
Is that similar to you guys spending so much time in a park on wall street? You must love them too.
we do love them. thats why we're there.
I'm sure the diabetic mall walkers of the Tea Party held your great esteem when they were holding up racist signs and toting guns around. Did you call them all sorts of names, and ridicule their right to assemble for redress of grievances? Oh, no! They are the "real Americans". Also, all this "get a job" stuff. Are you "working" right now, while spewing all of your inane shit all over the internet? If so, get back to work, slacker.
I do work, 40-50 hours a week. Thank you.
As do I, thank you. Still not an excuse for the wealthy to not pay their fare share in taxes. Were you aware that the richest CEO's, those making millions of dollars per year, only pay FICA taxes on $106,000.00 of their income? Do SSA and Medicare withholding on all of the 1%-ers income, and the programs would be solvent in perpetuity. Just one idea of fairness that comes to mind. I'm sure there are many more out there.
That's complete crap. You think the evil 1% are the means to your pitiful end. The CEOs of companies are hard working. I think they get paid a whole lot more than their worth, but that's what they signed up for. They manage HUGE companies. They get paid well for it. They don't hold you down, you voting the same bullshit into office year after year is what is holding you back.
Vote differently, and things will change. The 1% have so much money that they can make money from their money. Soros made 700,000,000.00 in one day because he loaned GE 5 billion dollars. When you have that kind of money, you can make that kind of money.
Making your first million is really hard, but if you're smart once you make your first million, you can multiply that million and make 5 million easier than you can make your first million. When you have money to invest, you usually can make money on it.
Ahahaha. Logic ftw. The ultimate trump card for OWS protestors. Hit them with logic and watch the nonsense and personal attacks pour out!
1.) are you a mother? do you have kids of your own?
2.) again, people keep assuming things about ows supporters. well let me tell you:
i have a job. i make 50K a year. i have loan debit- which i have every intention of paying off. im not asking for a hand outs, im not asking for everything to be free. im just asking for this "mess" to be fixed. im just asking for the oppression to stop (noone should EVER lose their home from medical bills. etc). im just saying, "hey washington/WS what are you doing?" im asking for people to be accountable- just like i am being accountable.
i don't 'hate' rich ppl btw.
Love the logic of the Oakland protest; a strike to shut down "the 1%," as it reads (and read the hilarious, "x number people voted in favor, x number abstained'...like playing "government" in a carborad box when I was 5).
Given the economic makeup of the U.S., I would wager that Oakland/Bay area possesses no more that 15% of the nation's top 1%. Thus, shouldn't the Official Oakland Proposal reflect that their goal is to shut down the 0.15%. Maybe they should have paid attention in Math class.
They should probably call to order another vote with the OWS Delegates.
New OWS slogan, "Not Working."
I hear ya, we just want an even playing field again, and here's one way we will get it back once again:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/
A portion (maybe the top portion) of the 1% you are railing against are the ones who invented or enabled all of us to have this "dialogue" on computers and televisions and radio and - the great infrastructure our society has enabled. Do they not deserve what they have earned? Good thing they didn't just sit in a park and scream into the sky about how they are being held back...
i believe there is some value in what you have to say, however making something of ourselves isn't the highest level, rather sharing and community is more nobel accomplishment. further, much of what this movement is about is finally taking stand since things have gotten so far out of line. our so called leaders have lost the plot and mostly they aren't located on Penn Ave, but rather in corp offices, some not even in this country anymore. i understand you work hard for your $, as did your previous generations. i believe we all are respectful of honest days work. unfortunately, it's become far too rare. tremendous pressure everywhere, and then corp and gov leaders not held accountable, as in case of recent financial meltdown/bailout. people have no voice anymore. they r lied to and manipulated. the masses want dearly to believe and follow your ideas, but they r being taken for a ride, as all of us r. there comes a point in all our live where we must take a stand. perhaps if u took close look into events of 911 u might begin to see more...
I am embarrassed for your condescending attitude towards people for exercising their right to protest. Some of what you say is correct but, by and large you fail to use a broader perspective to see the whole truth behind the protest.
The protest is not just sour grapes as you seem to want to categorize the discontent. Failure to address the protest appropriately will merely put it off and exacerbate the very real issues that do need attention.
The "hissy fit" of a spoiled nation has been going on for a long time as special interest groups have been carving out a chunk of the pie from our government to the point of driving it into a looming bankruptcy. This hissy fit is just the tip of the iceberg. Many are already into our government's coffers at the expense of others, you don't see that?
You seem to think that only small business millionaires are hard workers, wise up!
THANK YOU for stating this so well. These protesters can't even protest right and have such a sense of entitlement. Make your own way, people. If you feel like a victim to "the system, man" - that's your own problem.
Your anger is a gift.Its true.ppl that have built their wealth from hard work..n frugality and even chartity ,by being job creators for their community and renting real state to familes, are NOT to blame.. these a ppl that know how to give back..and realise that real wealth is not found in hoarding.what these protestors need to realise..at least the more.."hippster ones" is that to go agaisnt the finacial system of this country..is not an easy task.not even the main task.if you look back , and study your history, you will see that the injustice perpetrated in the name of profit has been going on for years. These protestors need to realy look at what's the root of their discontent. And stop going about ranting, emotionaly about that which they don't agree with or find to be dsgusting violations of human rights. Be rational ppl..b logical..don't be like the tea partiers..don't turn this into the other extreme. I've lost faith in the american economy . I see that the values that made this nation great have been sold out for peaices of paper. But I am not joining this movement because of what I feel or because of what my "struggle" is..cus in reality I have no struggle.I can easily move on n have a decent life..maybe not a rich life but a decent one.I join because we asHumans..have reached a point in history..where technology, science, and comunnications..have open doors, shed lights, and inform us.the net has opened oureyes to the injustices of the past..and the ones going on now.all u need is the right researchmaterial. Science and phycology can now literaly tell us in detail the type of enviromentwe need to produce better human beings. And because of sites such as facebook and twitter we can now be in contact with ppl all over the world. We have no excuse to be closed minded...I join because its enivitable..because the paradigm that we have been living by must expand, grow...or perish..and we with it
This is probably the most rational description I have heard of someone joining the "movement" - but unfortunately it seems like a minority perspective. I have heard no sense of logic, clear demands or strategy from OWS. I want to understand it, but "Banks suck, let's go to the park" and then yell at anyone who asks questions is a bit lame. And honestly, some of the people "speaking up" for this movement are very ill-informed about the banking industry that they are supposedly "fighting." Anyway, your points are valid.
What, we should worship the rich???
I'm an Engineer, think they could do my job?__ .....................................................................
#TheWholeTruth#__
Look I read through enough of this thread here to understand what happened.
First you called us: brats, a blight, an embarrassment, a shame, laughable, immature, unmade, or maybe it was lazy
And, you implied we are: not hard driving, not hard working, not goal oriented, not vision minded.
You think you know so much about us here. Even those who haven't come here yet to your silly thread. We get caught in your thread and you know everything about us.
ARE YOU SUPER-HUMAN?
Don't answer, I already know who you are. A troll. You fit the definition perfectly. Your the flaming kind and you can not hide from it. Your words are sealed here for all to see for their selves.
I may call you a troll but others may just think of you as confused.
Are you confused?
My friends,,,
TheWholeTruth won't answer my direct questions. He may turn the flame up a little which is all too predictable. Anyway, I fed this one just this once because as many already know there's something about them that stirs us to these responses at times. I just try to make it clear as possible we know what their trying to do and what kind of narrative their running which stirs them act in the troll manner.. My big problem is the lack of respect for others they show. This ultimately is counter-productive. And, we desire respect, and we should demand it.
nice ode to the rich. We heard many of those. You are forgetting that rich can only become rich through others becoming poorer.
Capitalism is a fabric for the medium of exchange (money) within our social society. Capitalism is less than the people in society.
Capitalism exists to serve ALL the people in society. When capitalism fails to serve all the people in the society (aka U.S. in my case), it needs corrected.
Capitalists rely on our social fabric (aka Legal System) to enforce their exploitive contracts and enforce crony-capitalist bought legal requirements! I agree- let's have a capitalist system where, if Aunt May fails to pay her mortgage, the bank can't evict her legally (the law does not interfere with the capitalist system, right?)
Banks will be forced to perform better credit analysis when giving out loans.
I agree, let's have a social system where banks can't get bailouts! If the banks fail, then they fail!!!
You know who will disagree with our plan? The FAKE, crony-capitalists who, in collusion with corrupt government officials, run our great country and destroy the American dream for the 99%.
Wake up!!! Its about power, not capitalism. The folks in power, use their influence to maintain power (in this case the folks in power are the banks, so they want to maintain a system (capitalism) that benefits them, at the expense of the 99%.) You need to stop being a shill for the 1%.
You think they care about you? You are just a pathetic a pawn to them!!! They laugh at you, because they know you are fooled into believing you can be like them!!!
It's not that these people are "wrong", it's just that they see rich people as having massive amounts of cash, locked in a safe. The money is liquid, it's in a bank and flows through everyone's bank accounts. Rich people allow the poor to take out larger loans, under the assumption they will buy a house and not piss it away on cocaine and casino's. That they will go to school to get a good grade, not get hammered at spring break and drop out of all their classes.
OK Einstein I'll agree with you. Your way smarter then I am. So maybe you can help this hard working small businessmen out with a few things.
And eventually when it comes time for the corporation to pay the loan back the CEO declares bankruptcy and walks away with his bonus money. The bank declares bankruptcy and the banker walks with his commissions money. An as for my money WOW. No wonder dear old granddaddy wouldn't let these guys do this stuff.
I remember him telling something about this time when the banks got crazy and lost everyone's money in the stock market. About 3 years latter people got so mad they took to sleeping out in central park protesting and rioting . I tell ya I'm sure glad they did because that help lead to all kinds of reforms like bank regulation, accounting standards, and govt watch dogs like the SEC. What ever happen to those things. Well Einstein thanks for your help with all that stuff. And good luck with what ever it is that your doing. Just keep in mind what old granddaddy use to say"don't put your money in the bank keep it under your mattress were it's safe.
If capitalism is so bad, why is China on its way to becoming the number 1 economy in the world? Why did they not prosper when were a Socialist based country? Why has the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic broken apart and become a kleptocracy? When these two countries were practicing so called social equality did their leaders live as the average citizen or did they enjoy more of the Social distributions? Do you think that it will be any different here?
Ask yourself why do all the Hollywood stars and people like Michael Moorer have so much more money than the average member of the Occupy movement yet tell you that the wealth must be redristributed starting at Wall St.. You people are foolish pawns. The most prolific mass murderers in the history of the world were Socialists. Joseph Stalin held power by killing those who protested. Mao Tse Tung was reponsible for the deaths of MILLIONS (as was Stalin). Pol Pot held power not by raising the standard of living of his people but by killing them when he felt it necessary to keep civil order. All of these Socialist Leaders made Hitler look like an amateur when it comes to exterminating masses of humanity.
You are being told not to protest at the Whitehouse or the Congressional venues because they are the innocent people taking orders from Wall Street. BULLSHIT!!! Yes they take money from Wallstreet but they line their own coffers with this money and stand in front of you saying that Wallstreet is killing Main Street. Wall street doesn't enact the laws Congress does and then the POTUS signs it into law. They have caused the problems by passing their ideas into laws and financial regulations that have caused this collapse. Now you are being fooled by their misdirection campaign designed to bring the system down. How is their ideology working in Europe right now. How many countries have gone bankrupt over there? How many are on the brink? Can you even answer these two questions? Do you know what the term "fiat currency means"? Look it up (Google it) and understand that it is what supports the ideology you are suppporting. It is the final WEAPON OF economic MASS DESTRUCTION. It has brought down every great society that has embraced some form of the concept of equalizing the wealth within a society. When currency is issued that is not backed by something of universally recognized value or chattel it becomes worthless and the price of tangible merchandise soars until the money (fiat currency) is no longer accepted anywhere. That is the true power you wield. If you achieve your goals you will destroy this country. If that is what you want then you can anticipate that anarchy and chaos will be the result. If that is what you want then don't ask why you are being arrested or treated UNFAIRLY. You need to look within yourself and ask why you arer where you are. How does direct democracy in the workplace play out? If a fireman is given an order to save a baby trapped inside a burning building and says lets take a vote to see who goes in do you thing the baby will survive the next half hour it takes to poll everyone using Twitter?
The TRUTH is that you an protest on Wall Street because the evil people there can't come out and kill you because they know that they would have to pay for that decision. What do you thing will happen if you do something that causes problems from those truly in power that don't want to give it up. I saw it in the Vietnam era on the Campus at my Alma Mater. The National Guard was brought out until it ended up with "Four Dead in Ohio". Who eventually paid for those deaths? Did Wall Street order the National Guard onto our Campuses? Wake up and smell the coffee. Something that you get for nothing has no intrinsic value. It can take place for a short period of time but it destroys. Go ahead and take something for nothing, it will eventually destroy YOU.
You're blind to the truth. It's finally people see.
Your life is as insignificant as all of ours, get over yourself.
Maybe your opinions will be taken more seriously when you do research on your own instead of relying on the media to tell you things. The Internet is here, you oughta try it, it's pretty nifty.
It doesn't seem like you actually understand what started the protest in the first place. I'm not talking about the threads on here that spew out nonsense about communism, rich being bad, or getting rid of money.
The original grievance, and what should be the focus of this movement is the corruption in big business/politics. By this I don't mean war against the rich. If you are a first generation rich (as you described) then good for you! you earned it and I have nothing against you (assuming you don't cheat your employees to keep padding your own pocket).
However it is the rich that keep getting richer through insider trading, pocketing government bailouts (which shouldn't happen) and through trade deals they got by buying politicians (who are suppose to represent the people, not the most money) that we have the problem with. Perhaps you should better inform yourself before you go insulting anyone.
Oh and so you know, my grandparents are proud that I am working hard to support myself and managing my debt, they are just sad that work doesn't pay like it use to.
Thank you. Someone who makes some sense
You are SERIOUSLY DELUSIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!! or are a business owner who one is of the abusers and is currently raping your employees.
We understand your fear. If this movement is truly successful, it will represent a major change in the economic and political systems of the US. Were we as spite and hateful as you are, we would ask our friends at Anon. to track you down. But we are not. You are, admit it or not, part of the 99%.
One major factor in keeping the population under control are the artificial class and race barriers that have been erected by the ruling class. (Howard Zinn's A Peoples History of the US has the best explanation of this.) By the way, we include union leadership in the 1% ruling class.
OWS tries to be a classless, raceless movement. This frightens the ruling class and their sympathizers to no end. One of their major social control mechanisms has failed.
To counter this in the short term, they have encouraged hatemongers to post on this forum, and to express sympathy with OWS. The racist right has been insistent on denying OWS any cooperation. These forces of hate have felt threatened since Obama's election, anyway, and they sense the power of this movement. Without an artificial racial and economic divide, these groups would have no reason to exist.
Many poor whites make up the bulk of these hate groups, but others, specifically recent immigrants (East Indians, Russians, etc.), belong, too. The poor whites have been more negatively impacted by the financial crisis than most, so the risk to the ruling class is two fold:
Hatemongers might just wake up and realize they have been played by the 1%, and actually join the movement. This would be a nightmare for the ruling class.
Many of the exploited poor white folks who are hate group members or sympathizers are also members of unions and the police/armed forces. Without a reason to protect the 1%, the 1% would suddenly become quite vulnerable physically.
If the ruling class can paint this movement as racist and antisemitic, they can lower the attractiveness of OWS to the bulk of Americans, who believe in fair play above all else.
We suggest occupiers remain peaceful and positive.
Who would proud, who wouldn't? What this movement is truly about? Hippies and jobless slackers? How these type of movements sometimes actually work? Does your government work for you? Why you have been brainwashed by the right. Our founding fathers?
You identify with the machine, not reality.
You say these millionaires are driven, but so was Hitler. OWS is not saying "down with all millionaires". They are pointing out the unfairness of the current system.
I am a mature man, an artist, a runner, I have a decent job, I paid off my credit card debt, and I am in my 40's---and I am not laughing at these people at all.
Nothing but crickets.
Figures. Listen, if you don't really want to debate, or acknowledge the facts, then don't post silly crap in this forum.
Go back to ruling your empire, and working so hard, and being so damn smart and wonderful.
'Your grandparents are ashamed of you.'
You obviously dont know anything about US history. I would like for you to look at any major newspaper in the US pre-war and read the 'Labor' section that told all about various labor movements, activism and protest throughout the counrty. Ever hear of the 'bonus army'? Mainly composed of our grandparents that were WWI vetrans who marched on Washington and were met with tear gas and riot police. Triangle Waste-Coat Factory? The labor strike throughout the country in the first half of the 20th century? The fact that 35 percent of private industry were in organized labor unions until 1970s? All of our grandparents fought and protested much more than our 'spoiled' generation has ever thought about... I think for most of our grandparents they would probably say 'its about time!'
What a d*ck!
Thanks easy for you to say, you grew up when the land of opportunity was ripe for pickings but now the field is baron because people like you got greedy and decided that you can make a killing by moving overseas. You did not get rich by yourself, you got rich off of the hardworking backs of American citizens. You have no loyalty to your country and are heartless!
The idea of the banks recovering the loss thru selling the property is, at this time, ludicrous
Idea: Banks should be required to ' Suspend' payments and interest accumulation if a person loses their job during an 'economic downturn' until that person finds a comparable paying job or until the national unemployment rate is less than 5%.
this only changes who owns the money and will force the economy to produce jobs
""Behind every great fortune there is a great crime." Balzac
Thank you for your analysis, Mr. Fox News Viewer. You have really drunk the 1% Cool Aid.
We don't want your money. We want our government back.
Your adverage everyday millionaire... ha ha!
keep believing that theres strength in numbers!
I used to believe in all that hard work stuff too. I used to work 14 hour days with a full-time and part time job, but I got sick of never seeing my daughter, not having any time for myself, and just relaxing. Now I just trade momentum for my account, my uncle, and a few others. I sit in front of a computer, watch the monitor a few hours in the morning and the afternoon and make more money in about 15 hours or less a week than I used to do in 14 hours per day. I made 7% on my triple DOW long overnight for me and my friends on Wednesday! Hard work is truly for suckers! True, my dad worked long hours to give a middle-class life for us, but I hardly ever saw him, and that sucked, and when had that heart attack at 54, that really sucked. But hard work now-a-days? Seriously? I'm done at 4PM EVERYDAY. Some weeks, I'm good by Monday morning!
I really can't help but laugh at this Hard Work pity party crap.
For all of these people who come in here and say we are all bums, weed smokin tree huggin hippy wannabees - get off your asses and get a real job - get on with your life and do something for a change.... OK first of all to all of you people in DENIAL and BLINDED by your own unrealistic world you have created: The good ol US OF A is in a FINANCIAL CRISIS - hard working individuals have lost their jobs, homes and are living in shelters or with loving caring family who are trying to help provide a sense of unity back into this home that ran into a HUGE brick wall - THIS IS treating others like you would want to be treated...
Corporate america - these companies are US BORN companies who started in this country and grew into HUGE CONGLOMERATES - merged, got eaten up by larger corps (heres an example - Toms of Maine - bought by Colgate) Sure at the beginning there was humility and prob a sense of community because they needed NEEDED their communities to embrace them so their businesses would flourish.. they hired local people, they created a company slogan or company by-line that made them APPEAR they were all good intentioned! HA HA HA - the joke's on us ...
They merged, they wanted more, they went public, they wanted more more more - just the top guys mind you... so here comes the GROWTH IN GREED - companies with this kind of behavior sent our jobs overseas - they LAID 100's and 1000's of people off ... they paid politicians to lobby on their behalf... they moved to third world countries where TAX evasion was easy and "legal"... they moved to third world countries to USE and continue to ABUSE the resources.
These companies went overseas because they would be paying same CHEAP / ABUSIVE hourly wages that these people worked for already. Did we move over to help these starving poor countries develop and EVOLVE ... HELL NO... and along with labor resource abuse...
We have plenty of companies who are abusing our environments - The world is OURS - we are ONE WORLD... ONE FREAKIN WORLD where yes indeed, corporations moved and raped foreign lands of their natural resources, send pollutants - KILLER pollutants into the surround air becasue THOSE COUNTRIES HAVE NOTHING LIKE AN EPA... So Africa my friends... some of our DIRTIEST chemicals being made
ALL FOR WHY _ because it puts MORE MONEY into the BIG WIGS pockets - more money to allow for the excess spending on the 3rd and 4th homes ... more money to pay off lobbyists to KEEP these countries from developing any time soon
We are acting now - this movement is real and WILL lead to solid changes... BIG BUSINESS you will be made to change and DO NOT ALLOW GRANDFATHERING, DO NOT ALLOW ANY EXTRA time to enact or start any new law... There won't be any "This will go into effect in 2020" - Its BULL that the latest wave in making car manufacturers chagne up their production lines to making ONLY HYBRIDS and GETTING RID OF the 30 MPG's and MOVING COMPLETELY to making AUTOS that get AT LEAST 50 MPG - is now way out there - YEARS AWAY - WHY? WHY? WHY? - MONEY... the car manufacturers like their profits - it buys them real furs and multiple autos and multiple homes. - GET REAL to all you trolls and the real lazy people are all of you happy with the WAY THINGS ARE... CHANGE IS COMING so you will have to get out of YOUR chairs! Turn the channel...
I'm confused. Whenever a politician presents a plan to help business, s/he always talks about "small business" not "big business".
So, you are advocating that we should not try to change the system, although you agree that the system is made for the 1%. The system allows the 1% to CHEAT 99% with impunity. They plant lucrative schemes, LURE 99%, TRAP them. And when the bubble bursts, the 1% are BAILED out, using the tax collected from 99%. No punishment, wow. More and more BONUS, so they can plant more schemes to cheat again. Remember, you are NOT the 1%. You are one of us, the 99%.
These are nothing but people who were beat up in school for being the freaks they show themselves to be today. LOSERS go home!!!
Idiot in the house
It's amazing how the mind works. A psychopath can commit the most heinous crime and rationalize that they did nothing wrong. Everyone interprets an event according to how it effects themselves. When someone is successful at negotiating a system they will view those who are unsuccessful as lacking the qualities that made themselves successful, a position that cannot be logically defended. To call it, "the truth." is egocentricity.
I used to believe in all that hard work stuff too. I used to work 14 hour days with a full-time and part time job, but I got sick of never seeing my daughter, not having any time for myself, and just relaxing. Now I just trade momentum for my account, my uncle, and a few others. I sit in front of a computer, watch the monitor a few hours in the morning and the afternoon and make more money in about 15 hours or less a week than I used to do in 14 hours per day. I made 7% on my triple DOW long overnight for me and my friends on Wednesday! Hard work is truly for suckers! True, my dad worked long hours to give a middle-class life for us, but I hardly ever saw him, and that sucked, and when had that heart attack at 54, that really sucked. But hard work now-a-days? Seriously? I'm done at 4PM EVERYDAY. Some weeks, I'm good by Monday morning!
I really can't help but laugh at this Hard Work pity party crap
What do you do for a living?
The criticism of the distribution of wealth in this society is a criticism of a system and not of individuals.
Of course this system is exploited by individuals who will take advantage of the current system, but the main criticism is directed on the system it self.
And by the way, it is in the interest of the "rich" to support a just society for all people.
If you read the preamble of the constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
It says it all.
"To establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
It says in no uncertain terms "we the People" ... not "we the rich" or "we the powerful" or "we who are ruthless enough to enrich ourself on the expense of the general welfare"
Lawful and Reasonable Strategy to See Human Needs Prevail Over Corporate Greed.
Preservation and restoration of the constitution by the use of its own principles.
This comes in the aftermath of the main event of Occupy Wall Street (OWS) on October 26, 2011 All those reading, please realize, none of us has ever lived under a constitutional government. Accordingly, the events that made OWS a needed action by citizens would not have happened if the US government had been constitutional.
It is abundantly clear from my perspective that OWS has had an agenda that is more important than seeing the human needs of Americans met. This page is authored on the request of Fresh2Death13 (Windsor, ON), here
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-this-all-means/#comment-212520
Thanks for the request, it is the 3rd so this article must be needed.
Hopefully, OWS can drop that agenda, and follow the peoples lead towards a functional movement for the peoples needs, albeit not in line with the unspoken agenda NOT using existing laws. As if they were already gone. They are not quite gone, one last try is in order. Article 5 of the US constitution is each American first constitutional right and many soldiers have died to protect that right. I will not ignore their sacrifice by ignoring that right. Each was honorable and reasonable in their action and decision although often decieved at the highest level, misused. Never again, the constitution will return. I will honor them by sharing with Americans what is needed to support and defend the constitution.
From the the law of the land, Article 5 of the US constitution, our first constitutional right Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
The bolded describes the conditions where congress SHALL call a convention. the sentence following says, MAY be proposed. Weak language compared to shall. All this means the states can exclude congress. Congress has no legal voice or role when 3/4 of the states are in agreement ratifying amendments.
STRATEGY
All demands, issues and problems that are observed by those Americans of OWS, people of this movement, to be comprehensive the Tea Party as well (seriously mislead also) which apparently has many similar demands or issues; are the motivations Americans carry into legal rebellion. Notice in the present political scenario we know, that the right and left movements were both making demands without invoking proper authority compelling the demand to be acted upon by officials. How convienent for those that would usurp the constitution. Too convienent.
CONDITIONS:
Conditions economically are not good for us protesting, even in our own states. That however will be much easier than going to federal offices and we already know they are not responsive while we've watched many violations of the constitution occur under their collective watch. What this means is that the unemployed and homeless who can assemble for peaceful protest and petition upon state legislations, need to have the support of citizens who have income and housing, IF the constitution is to survive. OR, they can go to the capitol of their state themselves and show everyone how it is done properly:) -
UNITY IN STRATEGY:
Unity might not be on the ground too often, but when it is, those that understand the law and how article 5 is the states tool over the principles of the republic which the federal government must abide by, need to communicate and get on the same page then explain to others attending how the law works.
After reading through the coments I think maybe you should change your name from TheWholeTruth, to :I am always right and my ego says so.
I don't think you fully understand why people are upset. And that's mainly because you are so far from reality that you don’t want to understand. The people of Occupy Wall Street are not upset because the top 1% has jet skis and yachts and they don’t. They are upset because somehow having a decent job, healthcare, a place to sleep, and food everyday has become a luxury. We don’t mind working hard, many of us work 3 jobs and have 0 full days off for weeks in a row. But when working 3 jobs still isn’t enough to take care of our children or pay our crippling debts from “cheap” schools, something isn’t working and change needs to happen. If the 1% doesn’t like Occupy Wall Street, they can help or get out of the way because even with all the money in the world you are outnumbered.
Hey the whole truth, (As provided by Rush and Fox News), why no responses to any of my posts, any of the 4.
Tuning into Rush and Hannity for additional information so that they can formulate your response for you.
You're weak.
Do you have any critical point to make besides nay-saying that "it will never work". Can you articulate an actual point besides we are wrong and you are superior to all your peers,. . you just sound like an egotist that has little understanding of the world you live in.
The whole time I am thinking the 1 percent is the ultra rich Bank's CEO's/execs.. not the hard-working small business owners. I am sure a lot people have same thoughts.
You hit the nail on the head. However, their dependence stems from their parents weakness and our economic problems stem from their parents being whiney brats as well. Since these protests began I've always thought; "If I were the parent of any child down there, I would know I had miserably failed."
Well I personally have nothing against folks who work hard and want to do well in life ie become very succesfull ,I also have nothing against folks who are happy with the simple things in life and just want to be left alone to do their own thing.What I do have a problem with is a privately owned banking system which loans out money at interest.If the banks create the money supply and loan it out,and then expect it to be paid back with interest - where does the interest come from?It doesnt exist.What we have here is a case of peter robbing paul to pay the banks.The game is rigged.So I think you are drastically missing the point with your rant.Read this from new scientist:
AS PROTESTS against financial power sweep the world this week, science may have confirmed the protesters' worst fears. An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy.
The study's assumptions have attracted some criticism, but complex systems analysts contacted by New Scientist say it is a unique effort to untangle control in the global economy. Pushing the analysis further, they say, could help to identify ways of making global capitalism more stable.
The idea that a few bankers control a large chunk of the global economy might not seem like news to New York's Occupy Wall Street movement and protesters elsewhere (see photo). But the study, by a trio of complex systems theorists at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, is the first to go beyond ideology to empirically identify such a network of power. It combines the mathematics long used to model natural systems with comprehensive corporate data to map ownership among the world's transnational corporations (TNCs).
"Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it's conspiracy theories or free-market," says James Glattfelder. "Our analysis is reality-based."
Previous studies have found that a few TNCs own large chunks of the world's economy, but they included only a limited number of companies and omitted indirect ownerships, so could not say how this affected the global economy - whether it made it more or less stable, for instance.
The Zurich team can. From Orbis 2007, a database listing 37 million companies and investors worldwide, they pulled out all 43,060 TNCs and the share ownerships linking them. Then they constructed a model of which companies controlled others through shareholding networks, coupled with each company's operating revenues, to map the structure of economic power.
The work, to be published in PLoS One, revealed a core of 1318 companies with interlocking ownerships (see image). Each of the 1318 had ties to two or more other companies, and on average they were connected to 20. What's more, although they represented 20 per cent of global operating revenues, the 1318 appeared to collectively own through their shares the majority of the world's large blue chip and manufacturing firms - the "real" economy - representing a further 60 per cent of global revenues.
When the team further untangled the web of ownership, it found much of it tracked back to a "super-entity" of 147 even more tightly knit companies - all of their ownership was held by other members of the super-entity - that controlled 40 per cent of the total wealth in the network. "In effect, less than 1 per cent of the companies were able to control 40 per cent of the entire network," says Glattfelder. Most were financial institutions. The top 20 included Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and The Goldman Sachs Group.
I am an Ows supporter i work my ass off all week long an average of 57 hours a week this year. I believe in getting rich by working. What i don't believe in is GE not paying taxes. What i don't believe in is the government pushing the banks to give out loans to people who could not afford them. The time has come for us to clearly state our goals because people like you who think all of us don't work. Don't ever think i won't work for something i deserve. I will work my ass off to destroy corporate greed and government corruption. And everyone here i hope will stand next to me completely.
Also, what is corporate greed? last I checked individuals run corporations. Can their building be greedy? can their product be greedy?
So why aren't you protesting in washington, or on your capital hill? Do you think GE is going to say "gee, these people want us to pay taxes, geuss we should?"
It's called Occupy DC, look it up. Also you might want to work on telling the difference between the symbol and the thing symbolized. Wall Street is a symbolic location representing the power and domination of corporate and financial entities which have overgrown the government intended to control them. We are protesting that power, calling on the government to reject the influence of money over that of the will of the people.
Seriously, It's the age of the internet, the people in DC can see us.
Every support cannot be there all the time we do need financial support. I am there every weekend with food sleeping bags and jackets.
You need financial suppport? Really?
Why don't you try locating anyone accountable in the movement and use some of the $500k in donations you've raised?
We know, we know - homeless people bused to the suburbs to canvas money for the re-constituted ACORN, which is the real force behind OWS, so we can pay for the buses used to bring the Mexican nationals in to vote in our elections. You ought to try watching something other than Fox News once an awhile.
We are not opposed to the free market, or to millionaires who made their money the hard way. We are opposed to people being unwilling to own up to their responsibility to the larger society. And yes, that means taxing millionaires. How dare you lecture people about resposibility! Really, I mean really?!!!
There is no intelligence in generalizations.
"Sure, corporate greed is real. Boo hoo."- TheWholeTruth
"Get over yourself"- TheWholeTruth
"You couldn't live through a day in their shoes. Why? Because they are hard driving, hard working, goal oriented, vision minded, driven machines. They are 90% first generation rich. For your IQ (which is obviously limited to room temperature), this means that they started from nothing and became wealthy." TheWholeTruth
You should be a motivational speaker, for The Church of Satan!
Find just one part of what I said that isn't true or wouldn't better you if you applied it. You won't.
Are you really this ignorant or just pretending to be? Shall we all sit at the back of the bus too? No one is protesting the average millionaire, there Minnie Mouse. Go back to Disneyland and wish upon your star.
Honestly, you don't even know who you are protesting. No one here has yet to give me a unified stance on this movement. Do you have any idea how many jobs exist because of the people you are protesting against? It's simple; you get your way and more people lose jobs. That's why you are the laughing stock of the world.
You post only disinformation, insults and constantly do nothing but harsh negativity. Who hired you? Do you get paid by the post, by the hours or are you on salary? Just curious.
Yes, we are protesting against the people who are trying to destroy "small business owners, (who) drive used vehicles and have no debt. They spend less than they make and have worked to build themselves into something." People are now being reduced to nothing but CONSUMERS. Not people anymore. Just consumers of anything credit based and that is now the basis of our economy. What do you want me to call it? Bubbleonians? What form of semantics works for you? Goldilocksters? How about "Technology is the New Jesus" crowd. Try opening your mind a little and join the discussion instead of trying to tear it down. This is what is about.
Just telling the "truth". You MUST be a republican. Are you wealth? No? Do you cherish some delusional dream that one day you will?
Dream on sucker.
Ok. What I am telling you in this thread is not politcally motivated. Am I wealth[(y) you forgot that 'y' on the end there]? It really doesn't matter which socioeconomic angle you want to tackle this from; what is fact is fact. The fact is that by trying to dismiss someone elses argument based upon political stance by default discredits anything else you could hope to accomplish. You have to grow up before you can sit at the big table with real adults. By the way, you would be very surprised at my politcial stance, but let's not go down than road.
So yeah, confederate. I mean conservative! Your background matters. It's fun to pretend it doesn't(America tried it for like 40 years) but it does.
Talk about snide, arrogant and dumb. Lots of people work hard. It has nothing to do with being a millionaire. Lots of millionaires are lucky, in the right place at the right time, they have inherited wealth or have wealthy parents who sponsor their ventures (sometimes the first two fail), have connections due to social group, etc. I know. I was a small businessman and saw it ALL the time. People who had not special talent except their parents deep pockets. In the case of one relative of mine, he was very fortunate. He worked moderately hard. Indeed, he would be the first to admit he was VERY lucky. I have seen many people work very hard over a long period of time and not be rewarded. It happens all the time. In fact, I would love to the research on someone like you. I had a colleague who talked just like you, about how you have to earn it yourself, etc. Then, we later found out he inherited his wealth. Well, gosh, golly. Lots of millionaires made their money in shady if not illegal deals. It happens all the time. The protest is about massive corruption, dysfunction and unethical practices amongst the very wealthy and corporations. If you had a functioning Brain, and could man-up, you would/should know this. Take your head out of your Ass. The President is not a threat to us. It is just that you are a partisan, racist, dogmatic dumbshit who likes to find simple explanations for complex issues. You no doubt would have been an avid supporter of Hitler, right? "Achtung, mein fuehrer!" You love that sound of that I know. So take your sophomoric thinking elsewhere, maybe to the Glenn Beck hotline where you can get off on his drivel and slop. There are a lot of people on here who could make you cry and wail simply by confusing you addled brain with facts. I suggest you go get a real education so you can learn the art of argumentation.
You have no real world experience. You could not have been a small business owner and if you were, it's for the best that you aren't now. Here's something you know nothing about: no one has ever made any real money working 40 hours a week. That's what you don't know. I deal with people of every type of background every single day. I deal with the ultra-wealthy and people who have less than nothing. I can tell you honestly that millionaires; multimillionaires have fanatical levels of integrity. Fanatical levels. They are crazy about their honesty. You have probably lived by one, pumped gas by one and you may even know one but you still never knew it. You think that they are lucky? That is the single biggest slap in the face to the truth as I have heard today. You simply haven't lived long enough kid.
This is the most bullshit I have ever heard in one paragraph. The thing is that people like you believe that these millionaires have all this integrity because you are either blind (and want to be) or in denial. I have seen it many times. Yes. I was a small businessman for nearly 20 years. You have not experienced the real world if you know not what i say. Yes, there are lots of honest people from all social strata. But just take a look at the crowd at the top. The money is so tempting that they can not help themselves, they are greedy, self-indulgent, mean-spirited bastards BUT they can present themselves to the world as the direct opposite. Think Cheney and others. The old saying is: America is a melting pot. The people at the bottom get burned and the scum rises to the top. You are either very naive or a pathological liar. I have known dozens of these scum suckers. Oh, and I am not a kid, wish I were though. Perhaps you are the typical huckster, lying to make your point here. But, I am not. I have seen these bastards first hand. Go check out what General Smedley Butler had to say about these motherfuckers. Truer words were never spoken. I once had long conversations with a former CIA operative who wrote several books and he told me unbelievable tales of viciousness. I met a former State Dept. official in Mexico this past summer who told me how absolutely evil the U.S. is. You have no fucking clue, like I say, or are an amiable dunce. Open your eyes. The corporatocracy is filled with these absolute assholes.
Were you referring to Bernard Madoff in your paean to rich people's "fanatical levels of integrity", and "crazy" honesty? Or Ken lay, perhaps? How about Donald "bankruptcy" Trump? I'm just curious.
The DOW is up 405.77 (at the time of this post). I will guarantee you this much.....ain't many rich people or middle-class 401k owners that give a damn about the OWS crowd today.
Your arrogance is unbelievable. I KNOW the landscaper earning $10/hr works 100 TIMES harder than you do. Real work, not sitting behind a computer shuffling other people's money around, skimming off the top. I have a full time job and have worked since I was 16, and according to the Wall Street Journal's 99% calculator, earn more than 67% of other Americans. I fully support these protests because someone in my shoes shouldn't be struggling to make ends meet, and I am. If my life is this difficult (my car is 20 years old and cannot afford a plumber) how on earth do those making far less than me get by? Nobody is asking for a hand out here, just a fair shake. As far as IQs go, I'd be willing to bet there are more MENSANs in our ranks than in yours.
If the amount of physicality in labor is now a testament to how high wages should be, most of us would be making next to nothing. Keep in mind that the productivity of labor is ultimately the deciding factor for wage rates. Hence why a neurosurgeon or anasthesiologist would make more than a landscaper (I'm not deriding this occupation in any sense, just making a point)
My arrogance is not arrogance at all. I'll shut up as soon as I start being wrong. As for you, your problem stems solely from personal responsibility and priority issues. I'm sure that if you sat down, drew up a budget and cut your lifestyle you would be just fine. A little debt heavy are we? And frankly, the fact that you categorize a person's worth based on their profession is tragic. It shouldn't matter whether someone works as a ship builder or as a desk jockey, they both have equal value in our economy. As far as a "fair shake" goes; you're a thief. By definition, if you take money from someone without their consent and distribute it to others you are a thief. Are you a thief? Are you so low that you feel the need to steal from someone else? Kid, I'm sorry but you just can't hang with me. I will bury you every time. Here's some much needed advice for you: live on a budget and spend less than you make. Before you know it you'll be rich and then I'm sure you'll feel like dolling you hard earned money out to people who protest you so that they can have their "fair shake". Again, you can't hang with me. By the way, being a MENSAN verifies that you are smart, not that you know what your doing.
Your problem is that you're too concerned that you are "right" rather than having an open-minded discussion with others. That is why you are perceived as being arrogant. Why not step down from your pedestal and actually listen to what's being said? That would be the true display of integrity.
Yeah...go on a budget and spend less. Spend less?! A very large portion of our economy is consumer based. If 50% of the population spent 20% less across the board...the economy would tank faster than your IQ.
As for taxing the rich not making any difference in our lives...yeah, it won't, BUT it would reduce the deficit...and if you cannot recognize the benefit of reducing the deficit, then your hopeless.
Desk jockeys and ship builders do have the same value in your society/economy...however, CEO's and Wall Street fat cats clearly do not.
Anyway, your gibberish is nothing new nor is it insightful. You are spewing the same non-sense being told to us since time began...work hard, save your money, and hopefully you will have something to leave to your children. Well...there is no guarantee that working hard and saving your money will yield any benefit. It only guarantees that the rich will keep getting richer. The game is rigged...and we want to change the game entirely.
I'm 57. I've served two apprenticeships: I'm an Unlimited Able Seaman, qualified to steer a ship of any tonnage in any waters; I'm a Dol certified Journeyman Carpenter, and I specialize in heavy industrial construction (power-plants, dams, grid, etc. I was Boatswain (deck dept supervisor) on the UST Pacific, the largest moving object ever built in the US. I'm qualified to run an OSHA compliance program in any size construction company, and I've run my own OSHA safety compliance sub-contracting company. I'm a certified crane operator, and a certified master rigger. I have medals from the DoD, and I've never been a member of the military. I'm an organizer with the campaign to occupy Wall Street, and you are very misinformed.
That was awesome!
I know that I have been fairly condescending on my posts, but I want you to know that I truly respect the level of experience that you have in various fields. That is from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate your hard work and I wish you many more years of successful service. With all do respect, I feel as though I am very informed of the vagueness that is this movement. On this thread, I have seen no clear argument really for anything. I welcome any person as a part of this movement to please define any measure of direction that would suffice as a goal for the entire venture. You so far seem to be the only person that I have found that could do this.
mr whole truth sir, goal is to rid this country and this world for that matter as many countries have formed their own protest groups all asking for pretty much the same thing. You can hear pretty much the same messages being sung around the world- city to city - that we want change and we want it now and the changes would include but not limited to as this is still forming into what it will be:
Change up the Security Exchange Commision Act(s) and regulations that govern - example for what we need to stop and enter into legislation: Disallow Golden Parachute awards to SENIOR Execs - Rid the BONUS plans to Senior execs. ---
This is a start to CHANGING our SYSTEMS that have grown corrupt and full of GREED.
If there is a single ounce of value in this movement it is that it is inspiring people, myself included, to educate themselves on issues to which they have been wholely apathetic for most of their lives because they felt it either did not concern them or it was too far out of their hands.
For example, I am sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and up until two days ago I had never read it. I looked it up specifically because there were people here saying that there were actions taking place within the goverment that were unconstitutional and I wanted to read for myself exactly what they meant.
Until this week I had not known what the Federal Reserve Bank was and/or what it was used for. I didn't know I should care. For all that I have read this week I'm still largely unclear of a lot of the processes, but I have a far greater understanding of the value of a dollar than I did a week ago.
The point I'm trying to make is that I and, I'm sure, at least a third of the people here were directly inspired by the current movements to educate themselves and become informed on the issues that effect their lives. And with this knowledge they will be able to make an informed decision when it comes time to elect a new official, rather than blindly voting for the individual with the most appealing slogan on his sign.
So please do not slander, please do not debase, and please do not belittle these people who have felt it necessary to come air their grievances in an open forum. Some of us may seem uninformed or ill-educated and that is mainly because we are. We come here to get a better understanding of how the goverment and the economy work, and learn what it is that we as citizens can do help make the system work better.
This is far and away the best response I have gotten from anyone associated with OWS.
How do you know that this person is associated with OWS?
I am a member of the OWS. The 21st OWS to be precise. Have been for about 2 years.
maybe if YOU didnt debase, belittle and turn and educate yourself on same matters you would not create such a hostile post. this is your creation... be responsible for it
Now this is just playing the blame game. You can't solve anything with the blame game. What we need is ideas. Don't throw your hostilities at this person. You won't gain anything from that.
Oh i dare say this is a person, myself, pointing out to another the facts of the matter that his/her posts above certainly do debase and belittle. These previous posts by that THE WHOLETRUTH person take on an air of superiority and that my friend has to end... for making a truthful statement to people about the way they behave when it is intolerable has to be allowed. It is the truth after all that people need to shout out. We all need to stop this bull of "keep silent for it will be frowned upon and you will look like you are judging"... when a person is being self-centered and biased and making nonsensical statements about what he or she believes to be what the world should believe, then that deserves a little one on one retort. Call it judging but in reality, when we speak, when we work and live in this world it is to live TOGETHER --- live as a community - help one another - this is life at its best. I am not an egotist by any means - I try to keep my mind open and not let the "dirt" of this world mask the truth. I open my home to anyone in need if they venture by and ask for help. I roll my window down and give to the people holding up signs because they are out of work, living on the streets and hungry. I do all this right now... its only getting worse because people are too afraid to deal with reality right now. Its staring us in the face - its time now to give to those around us who need our help. It is not HELPFUL for people and big business to remain as ego-centric as they have been - it is time to release all that was and begin to think differently about how we must begin to live in our little communities. One world - One World - end the greed, end the corruption on wall street, change the laws that govern any and all businesses so it disallows vanity and materialism to flourish any longer! WE are on our way to making these kinds of changes my friends... its time to deal with humanity by making all business communities behave humanely - like i said, the non-profit industry (may have some dirt that needs to be cleaned up too) but their missions are good intentioned. Who they hire and put at the helm in some cases has mimicked the ENRON and GE types of leadership - rip offs to humanity have taken place - We put laws in place to redirect their poor choices - we put it all out there for the community at large to vote on and share in owning! When a CEO fails, when company owners/directors steal - the community now engages and tosses them... they reform! new order - new laws - new behavior to benefit all of us!
You people(yes, you people) asking for "the one thing" or "the argument" behind this movement are full of shit. If I told you my single issue you'd just start a new self-congratulatory non-argument against it. Which is fine, but saying you'll give up when you hear that 'one thing' is deceitful. It's lying and pandering.
Still nothing broheim. You still haven't said anything.
I'm 57. I've served two apprenticeships: I'm an Unlimited Able Seaman, qualified to steer a ship of any tonnage in any waters; I'm a DoL certified Journeyman Carpenter, and I specialize in heavy industrial construction (power-plants, dams, grid, etc.) I was Boatswain (deck dept supervisor) on the UST Pacific, the largest moving object ever built in the US. I'm qualified to run an OSHA compliance program in any size construction company, and I've run my own OSHA safety compliance sub-contracting company. I'm a certified crane operator, and a certified master rigger. I have medals from the DoD, and I've never been a member of the military.
I'm an organizer with the campaign to Occupy Wall Street, and you are very misinformed.
I'm getting really tired of explaining this to people like you who look at this as a bunch of individuals whining because life just isn't catering to them enough. I think I'm just going to make a Word document and cut and paste it from not on. THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT! Listen up:
What this IS about is a big-picture, systematic problem that's running the middle and lower classes down the tubes and making the upper 1% extremely rich at our expense. OWS is railing against moneyed interests (corporations, banks, etc.) buying favoritism from and controlling our government in their favor against the interests of working people. Instead of going through all of this and typing it all out AGAIN, I'd recommend reading the article: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/11/14-1 , http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/10/24 or watching the Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB7jdjsFErM
If you don't understand it after that, I can't help you.
I support this movement, I have a Bachelors of Science in Biology. My husband has a PhD in Biomedical Sciences, and together we make very decent money, yet we support the movement. We are against policies being written that have been backed with lobbyists dollars, rather than what the electorate desires. It's failing us because it is no longer supporting us, because we lack the funds to push politics the way corporations do. I have nothing wrong with a millionaire, they do tend to work very hard. I have problems with using money to influence policies that benefit a corporation over the citizens of the US.
You are at the wrong place. You need to be at Capitol Hill.
Right, because politicians will stop accepting money from wall street when we ask them to? We know where power comes from in the current economic arrangement, and that's why we occupy WALL STREET.
I think we can all say for certain that doctors and self made millionaires are not the problem, the generation-ally wealthy are the problem. We all know that spots are saved for you at yale or harvard if your name is bush or rothchild
If these rich as so wonderful why do they not pay their fair share of taxes?
Talk about a generalization. Those people that are rich, are rich because they knew the secret. The Universal Law of Attraction. Like many other Universal Laws out there to sustain life on earth. These Laws all fall into the Law of Gravity category. We need them. Understanding them and using them are two different things. These laws react to our thoughts. That's why people who set goals usually achieve them. People who think "Why can't things ever go my way" are also going to experience those thoughts over and over because that's what you asked from the universe with your conscious/unconscious thoughts about it. You get back that experience. Check it out...I'm not the only one who has experienced this. These people are my teachers and I share them with you. http://www.equaltogod.com/universallaws.htm
The mind is really the last frontier to be discovered. Have a fun journey. Michael,
Michael, Michael, Michael. Don't tell anyone I did this, but I'm going to tell you the secret of the rich. Really. I really am going to tell you. Here is the formula for success: 1. Spend less than you make. 2. Have no debt. 3. Have an emergency fund of 6 months expenses. 4. Pay off your home quickly. 5. Choose a profession you love. and 6. Repeat the process forever. There, I literally told you the formula to success. I promise, I promise and promise you that if you do all of those things; you will be rich. You would not be able to avoid success. That Michael is the secret. Now go, Michael, quickly! Change your name so that no one will be able to trace you back to that pathetic excuse for a webite link you posted. I am ashamed for you. Now get out there and become what you fear!
lol......Do those same principles apply to corporations?
I remember Al Checchi one of the main owners and players at Northwest airlines telling people that debt is our friend.
You still display a very selfish and unequal attitude towards wanting favoritism to the rich to keep the poor suppressed.
I guess that's just the kind of guy you are.
How do you spend less than you make and make an emergency fund of 6 months of expenses when you choose a profession you love and it doesn't make you enough money to do any of that? To be fair I agree with some of your points about not taking on Debt(I have none). But I have nothing to show for my fiscal responsibility- a few thousand dollars and that's all. This is no formula to "get rich" it's a formula to keep from drowning. Barely.
Michael,
Nice post.
I totally agree..
'The Hole-Truth'.... BITE ME!
( i mean that is All your topic, and your posturing Deserve!)
BS.
Posted elsewhere on here - but wanted to add to this too.
Another one percenter here, at 29.
I worked my tail off to get where I am today. Started as a teen mom from a lower-middle-class family. Chose between lights and food more times than I'd like to remember. Worked my way up, starting as a dishwasher at 14, to a comfortable professional position with and a graduate degree. Two jobs at a time, plus full-time school...I operated on a sleep deficit for 9 years, and I scrimped and saved. My cell phone (right now) was made in 1996 and cost $8 - I've had it for 3 years. We shop at Aldi's. My kids wear a lot of Goodwill clothes. We're not rolling in dollars - we're saving so we can retire and the kids can start off better than we did.
Last year we paid 40% of our income in combined state/fed taxes. We gave another 12% to charity. Out current family project is "adopting" a bunch of struggling families in our area for Christmas. My kids -chose- not to get anything for Christmas this year so we could take on a couple more families.
I'm a liberal, generally, with liberal friends.
But I have not heard any explanations about why my family should pay more in taxes than we already do. We have a large net worth because we worked for it. I have student loans too. Please tell me what my family is doing wrong here.
I agree with a lot of the rants about the system - doing away with corporate campaign contributions, etc - but don't ever forget that the 1% includes many many many families like mine.
then you fall out of the 1% this campaign is targeting... great job... happy for you but the criminal corrupt corporate joes and corrupt politicians those are the people this targets.
From what you are telling me, you are doing awesome! I hate the fact that you and many other Americans are having to pay such a high tax rate. The top 1% pay 40% of all of the nations taxes. To all ignorant ney-sayers, that statistic comes straight from the Internal Revenue Department. You guys are doing a great job and I hope that you are able to adopt! You seem like you guys have all the capability in the world for blessing others lives in an incredible way and do you know why that is so much more beautiful? It's because you are doing it on your own, because you want to and not because you are being told to by a whiny government bent on entitling a generation to your very hard work. OnePercentMom, I wouldn't change a thing. I truly sympathize with your frustration at the current tax code. You are going to do great and be able to really help others. Thank you so much for your post.
Apologies, I didn't read your entire post. I don't think anyone would say you're doing something wrong, if they read the whole thing :p
You're not necessarily doing anything wrong, but I think it's telling that you're on here defending your money instead of trying to help those less fortunate.
The main thrust of the political message of OWS is getting corruption and money out of politics. Money is a corrupting force in government because it enables corporations to buy politicians and therefore policy. The movement isn't trying to take your money, it's trying to level the playing field so that those at the top can't make money by screwing the average American.
Didn't she say that not only do they donate 12% regularly to charity but in addition, do help out those less fortunate (and include their children)?
Frankly, she and I are in the same boat. I started out my adulthood at the bottom of the heap, with two children and no means of support other than the jobs I was willing to take. I went back to school, tried as best I could to get my act together, clean up my credit, etc.
My husband and I own our own business and will end up either as 35% bracketeers or just above that mark when we file for 2011. We don't even get to wait until the end of the year to pay - to date, we've paid $15,000 directly to Uncle Sam, with another $5m on the way to him in January.
I volunteer weekly at our local Humane Society. My kids go with me because I feel it's important to teach them to care for someone other than themselves and to start that thinking young. I also donate to them, the United Way, the Boys and Girls Club of America, our local Family Abuse shelter...
So how much should we (those of us either in the 1% or just below it) be donating to be considered helping the less fortunate? Should we still be allowed to write it off when we file our taxes, or does that lessen the meaning of the donation?
This post is also irresponsible nonsense. This is the only acknowledgement it deserves.
Trololol. OWS is not a movement aimed at the self made man, it is aimed at those who buy and sell our politicians. I'm a lawyer from a financially secure family. I choose to support OWS because SCOTUS favors corporations over individuals and Citizens United made me want to puke. OWS is the best chance we currently have to get back to a gov't of, by, and for the People, instead of our modern day gov't dominated by multinational corporations.
You got it all wrong. This movement is not about being angry at rich folks, it's that the richest of the rich, not millionaires, they too are part of the 99%, but the top 1%, have purchased direct control over our government. Now I'm not talking about influence, but direct control. So much so, that our government, (Yes, both parties and every single political official) no longer work in this nations best interest. They've sold out to this 1%. They only work for their best interest, and this is killing our Nation.
And about past generations not being proud, maybe you should take a look at the declaration of Independence. You know who wouldn't be proud? Our founding fathers wouldn't be. You know who else won't be proud? Future generations who will inherit a lost nation, a diminished nation.
We just want our government back. That is our right. That's not being a brat, that's not being selfish, that's the principal on which this nation was born, and the foundation on which it rests.
According to Forbes...only 16% of the American upper class were self made (meaning coming from a family from a lower class then the one they are now apart of.) It also states that there is a lot of downward movement among the rich because of expanding family trees, meaning the wealthy families are not always earning anything extra or doing anything with there money.
So, where/what arse you pulled 90% out of is beyond me. Even the country with the most economic movement was only at 63% of the rich were self made...and that is a socialist country.
Wow...Forbes? Ok, I'll give you the dignity to read a little better source and then come back. I'm figuring out that no one on this site reads much if at all.
So, the magazine that showcases the rich and tells who is who in business and economics is not a valid source on who is rich and how they got there? Do tell, what is your source for your 90% number?
Tom Stanley. I do recommend reading. Most millionaires are voracious readers.
This is why sourcing is important. First, the number is 80%, not 90%. Second, they are first generation affluent. By his own definition that is a family income of over $131,000 a year. His definition of a millionaire is based off net worth rather than income.
What we are looking at is the group who makes more than that net worth in a year. The people with $1million+ salaries, not net worth. The top 1%, not the top 5% as the books you reference talk about.
If ofborg's source is so bad then tell us who is your source? Your rant has no sources. Why should we believe your facts? Truly prove your point by showing us where your numbers come from.
Being driven by selfishness is not something I want to promote.
Do you know what real honor is? Sacrificing your success so people in the future can have a future. Yes people in the OWS movement could be working to succeed... selfishly. But instead they choose to work SELFLESSLY to better ALL OF MANKIND!!!
So you tell me, which is the more honerable desire? To help yourself, or to help mankind?
I want you to imagine something. I know there's some imagination somewhere within those two braincells. Imagine if you will a subculture who has grown a large tree. This tree has supplied shade, jobs, opportunity, pay and growth for many people for many years. Now, OWS wants to cut that tree down because they need to make a toothpick. I don't expect you to understand what I wrote, but I'll hope against hope just in case. All of mankind? Seriously? Grow up kid.
I will take the high road and ignore your Ad Hominem (personal attack) fallacy.
Your metaphor is not true at all. OWS doesn't want to cut the trees down. OWS wants the trees to stop trying to rule the people living in the shade. OWS doesn't want to kill Wall Street. It wants Wall Street to stay out of Washington.
There are enough people in America who have grown into this large shade tree. We don't need more people trying to get rich. We need the people who are already rich to stop moving the jobs from under the shade of their tree to a forest in another country. We need the rich people to stop making back-room deals with politicians and let the government do its job, protect the interest of the people.
The top priority for this country in this period of time should not be success... or getting rich... it should be getting our country back on track so everyone in America can be free to pursue happiness. And Wall Street is the biggest road block to that end. OWS is the bulldozer trying to tear that roadblock down.
If you want to selfishly get rich, great. Go right ahead. Grow that tree. But don't for one second think you are better than the person who is giving up his own time, freedom, and even life to protect other people's rights to live their lives without fascism.
Do you know how many people have created businesses, tried tirelessly to succeed in that business, but have failed because of this poor economy?
Here is something short and sweet for you: I defy any of you, any of you to give me one clear, compelling argument for your endeavor without placing the blame for your own failures on someone else. You can't do it. Do not give me the "by no fault of their or my own" story. Do not cop out on me (but I fully expect you to anyway)! I'm giving you a chance to tell me what you are about. But I feel I now have a decent idea of who I am dealing with here: a hodge podge of tree hugging, dirt worshipping, pseudo sanct youths with no real world experience, or at least never learned anything from it by being busy blaming others. Honestly, I was really saddened to read the replys referencing humans and the enviroment. You have bought into a falsified field of "study" that began decades ago to funnel government funds to "research" a problem that is defined by credible scientists as nonsense. If you believe that human beings can impact the global atmosphere in such a way as to alter or end life as we know it; you are making one of the most the most hysterical and arrogant claims fathomable. Think about it. No no, really think about it. When Mount Saint Helens erupted in 1980, it did more damage to the global atmosphere than all mankind since the Industrial Revolution. I honestly though that by posting this I would recieve some great arguments for your cause, however I now realize that you don't even know what your cause is or what you want. You haven't a clue.I completely over-estimated the intelligence level of this forum. You all must walk on your knuckles.
@THE PARTIAL TRUTH. You have failed to make an argument. From Red Herring to Straw Man your entire point is rooted in logical fallacies and unsupported presumptions. You fail to cite sources, make unsupported universal assumptions (which are BTW always wrong), and demonstrate knowledge of a false narrative of the OWS movement.
You haven't even proven that you are "successful" like you claim to be.
I'll break it down like a fraction for ya: I deal with the 1% daily. I sell boats that a more expensive than you could afford... and guess what; those that have money don't have to say it. AS we say BS walks.
Guess what. I'm educated, college grad, been in this successful family business for many years. I even have a degree in philosophy... YOU HAVE YET TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT. I don't care what your point is (especially since you haven't made one), but stop wasting everybody's time on your fallacious, circular thinking.
Well there, king of the Apes, how is the Trolling going? Pretty high and mighty - all full of your TRUTH. Only a fool would claim to know everything. Do you have a crown and wave a wand too? How about this: IGNORANCE. If the 99 percent has to live with the consequences of their actions should not the people who claim to be the "John Galts" of society? It is a sad day where it is a worthless endeavor to do ANYTHING than something for yourself. Your basic class-ism, racism, and attitude in general is what is disgusting. But YOU are the one who has to live with that - not me.
Assume...most of us know what that does.
I am reading assumption here, failure? I don't see failures, I don't see blame being placed, I am, however, seeing anger, most of it coming from those who belittle the OWS. I am also seeing personal attacks coming from the same source.
There's the ongoing debate, Republic vs Democracy...yet neither side of the debate seems to understand what either one actually is. I suggest both do some research, read up on past republics and past democracies and then bring your marshaled arguments to the debate.
While you are at it, both sides may want to research 'The Building of a Monarchy'. Might want to work that one in there too.
I am here because I am sick of seeing my country being pissed away by DC in favor of global multinational corporations that have no true loyalty to the US. Between TARP, the auto manufacturer bailout, cash for clunkers and all of the other corporate giveaways, I am pissed at how our elected "leaders" choose to only support those who can bankroll their election campaigns. The tax code is written to favor those with most while half the country doesn't even pay a dime because they don't have two nickles to rub together, yet half of Congress wants those with little to nothing to pay more into the system because they take from the system. What sense does that make? So a mother of two who makes less than $30,000 a year should pay more into the system while someone who holds millions and keeps that money out of circulation, thus stagnating the economy, shouldn't have to pay a single dime more to help that woman? I am here because corruption and greed sent me and ton of my buddies to Iraq for no reason and then some of those who sent me are bitching that we are leaving while the other half that never supported me for all of those years are now claiming to defend me. I am here because scum bags like John McCain want me and my buddies to have to pay more for our military benefits so that he wouldn't have to raise taxes on people who pay less (proportionately) than I do. I am here because the right and left wings in DC are destroying this nation while playing us against each other so that we don't focus on their wrong doings. Useful idiots who support one party or ideology over anything else are bringing this nation down and you think everyone here just wants a handout because Rush said so. Pathetic.
What a fucking idiot. Talk about room temperature I.Q. Might want to turn that thermostat up a few notches. You are totally clueless. How long have you been on this site. I'll make this brief because there's plenty of USEFUL pages to check. This isn't about RICH PEOPLE, you dipshit. Do your homework. It's about greed and corruption, Wall Street and Pennsylvania Ave. Jeez! My dog could write better posts than half you morons.
Funny, I could swear every other sign at OWS says, "Tax the Rich". Maybe I'm just getting old and my eyes are deceiving me. Not about the rich at all, no, no, no. If greed and corruption is all it's about, why was every (and I do mean every) liberal talking head last night harping on the "income distribution" of the last 30 years? I didn't know income was "distributed", I missed out on mine.
It's an econometric term. Here is a definition and some background from the Library of Economics and Liberty, not exactly a bastion of liberalism (to put it mildly). http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/DistributionofIncome.html
It's a bullshit econometric term if you ask me. It's meant to imply that income should be "distributed" throughout society in some "fair" fashion. And it misses the point of gnomunny's post, that it isn't about rich people, but greed and corruption. I'm fine with getting rid of corruption, getting money out of politics, but that isn't the real goal of OWS. The goal is to appear nice and inclusive, coopt the support of the "99%", and then try and institute a radical agenda. That's why they keep talking about income distribution and rich people, because that is how they want to finance the agenda. You have a "silent majority" out here in the hinterlands who agree with OWS in a limited way, but do not support and are in fact, hostile, to many of the underlying "solutions" that will inevitably arise.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ive-already-said-it-before-but-here-it-is-again-fo/
"...a blight on the potential maturity of a generation and an embarrassment to progress."-TheWholeTruth
I shall put this on my tombstone! You are a great laugh! Thank you for your Neo Con rant! This troll really cheered me up. [giggle]
Most of us "Whole foods hipsters" WANT to work and make a decent f*cking living. I work, but it's not enough...4 jobs would be enough but then I would probably not have time to sleep. And you're probably the guy who drives into trader joes with their SUV. Go suck on your money and your "whole truth". I just wasted 3 minutes of my life on this, thanks.
Funny...trader joes is cheaper than whole foods...
Funny, Trader Joes isn't in my town but we have 5 Whole Foods.
And this is the 4th largest city in America.
[Removed]
"Why? Because they are hard driving, hard working, goal oriented, vision minded, driven machines..."
then why have they fucked everything up so completely? seems like they need to stop and take a break and let some smarter people take the wheel
Half of OWS will be at home by February yelling at their T.V.'s. and waxing poetic about how they went to OWS and "protested".
You hit the nail on the head. However, their dependence stems from their parents weakness and our economic problems stem from their parents being whiney brats as well. Since these protests began I've always thought; "If I were the parent of any child down there, I would know I had miserably failed."
I used to believe in all that hard work stuff too. I used to work 14 hour days with a full-time and part time job, but I got sick of never seeing my daughter, not having any time for myself, and just relaxing. Now I just trade momentum for my account, my uncle, and a few others. I sit in front of a computer, watch the monitor a few hours in the morning and the afternoon and make more money in about 15 hours or less a week than I used to do in 14 hours per day. I made 7% on my triple DOW long overnight for me and my friends on Wednesday! Hard work is truly for suckers! True, my dad worked long hours to give a middle-class life for us, but I hardly ever saw him, and that sucked, and when had that heart attack at 54, that really sucked. But hard work now-a-days? Seriously? I'm done at 4PM EVERYDAY. Some weeks, I'm good by Monday morning!
I really can't help but laugh at this Hard Work pity party crap
Ok people; you clearly are incapable of staying on task. As I read the thread I am finding that none of you are competent to form a coherent, organized thought. When the smoke clears and the dust settles, at the end of the day you are ultimately responsible for you. You clearly cannot give me reason for the existence of this endeavor. You are all the punchlines of the current state of the economy. I want to ask you all something; if we tax the rich, who does it? The government. Do you honestly think that you will see any benefit from it? No. You won't. You will see nothing. Because we all know that the government, the lord and savior of your lives, is the only thing on the planet more irresponsible than you are. You cannot name one, not one government funded program that isn't a total disaster. Not one. Trust me this is bipartisan. Republicans, Democrats and Independents are charged with handling the funds collected from the people to do what is best for the nation as a whole. So you are going to tell me that if they just had a little bit more that they would help you? No sir. No mam. They won't. I'm right and history proves it. I defy any of you to take me on in a legitimate debate. You won't because you cannot argue fact. You are not some phoenix that will rise of the ashes of oppression. You are a joke, a cruel reminder of the depravity of a generation and a strong indictment on the education system of this country. May whatever deity you serve help you. You need it.
Holy crap. I have, and you haven't responded. My debate is legitimate, is yours? If you refuse to engage me, then you are not legitimate. Not about taxing rich, It's not about getting more help from the government, that's just what Fox news and company are telling you. Again, think for your self, not what conservatives tell you to think.
Yes, every single government endeavor is a disaster, but ask your self why? Because all of them ultimately become handouts for special interest and the ruling elite. That's all they ever become. Our Government has become just one big handout, to special interest, whether it's a voting block, or some industry or company. That's all it is, paying back the people who paid for you to get there in the first place.
You know what I love about propaganda? Is how simple it is. They always keep it simple. Tea party rallies in Washington, are we for that, yes, well then they are true patriots. How about this group in New York, no, hippies.
They tell you doped out hippies, and you, like some mindless zombie, just repeat it. Tell me, why doesn't FOX news, Rush, Hannity, etc... call the Tea Party protesters doped out hippies? why? Give me one damn reason! And why don't you call them hippies? I'll get this one, because they told you that they weren't, they told you they were hard working, patriotic Americans.
They tell you what to think, in simple form, and you accept it, and regenerate it, just like a mindless robot.
Common, The whole Truth. bring it on. Lets talk about this, lets discuss this.
Or don't just gloss over this and say it's not worth your time. Spineless, brainless, sheep.
Indepat: It's so offensive that so many people supporting OWS ASSUME that people who have a different perspective are CONSERVATIVES, BRAINWASHED BY THE MEDIA AND RUSH LIMBAUGH....MINDLESS...TEA PARTY..
This makes it hard to have a serious, productive debate. I, like many people here, make up my own mind. I'm an Independent - and I don't watch CNN or FOX - but I read publications containing both sides of arguments - and then reason, decide and act according to morals and what is best for my family and community, And I don't blame others for any problems that I may have.
But many of us don't get the OWS mission or strategy - and it's not as simple as we "just don't get it." No successful organization - profit or non-profit/charity - could be run by OWS because it is a huge cluster**.
I don't assume this, but when I hear the buzz words, the same buzz words I only hear on Fox news and on AM radio, then yes, I can put 2 and 2 together. Hippies, lazy, out of work slackers, these terms are only used by them, so when I hear them what else is there to make of this.
I'll ask the same question I've asked others. When the tea Party Holds a protest, and they are standing their chanting and holding their signs, why doesn't Fox and Hannity label them as hippies, out of work slackers?
So it has nothing to do with merely being against. It has to do with conservative media promoting a certain view and others following to a tee.
Now I'm not calling you that. I don't even know what your view is. But the person who posted this went right down the list, so I will call this out for what it is. Not calling you out.
Now you can argue about the premise, but when all someone has to say is that they are crying, selfish babies, then have the opposite view of the tea party, well I have to call it what it is. The hypocrisy of the right.
By the way, I know it exists on both ends, but in this case, this what the conservative propaganda is saying and was just regurgitated here on this post.
If you have some other opinions that don't label them as hippies etc... then I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
I can't speak for Fox or Hannity, I don't really pay attention to them. And I really have no idea about the Tea Party, either - which is just another convenient label (which OWS people seem obsessed with). I actually prefer to watch C-SPAN and see/hear both sides provide a detailed perspective - and I form my own opinion. I can easily dismiss radical bias on either side.
Maybe people are confused by the movement's articulation of its core mission. Maybe it ISN'T conservative propoganda, but a pretty broadly held opinion that people question what OWS expects to achieve by standing around in a public park, attempting to deride institutuions that are only one part of a major problem. Maybe people question not your views, but your method of trying to affect change.
Most of us are very frustrated with the state of things, but a lot of people don't see OWS as an effective articulation of either the problem or solution.
And stop watching Fox news. : )
I use Fox, Hannity and Rush, but there is an army of these types out there, so it doesn't actually have to be these guys. Still, they all say the same thing. I actually do listen to them, because I want to hear what they are thinking, which is usually the same exact thing, again simple talking points.
It is, again, the words used here, hippies, out of work slackers, cry babies, these are the words I hear all the time. Again, I have to ask, why don't these conservative personalities call the tea party these things when they protest?
It's so obvious it's sickening. I'm calling out the person who posted here, and used all the conservative buzz words.
No, watch Fox news, watch CNBC, so you can see what crap both sides are trying to sell everyone.
You would surely have been a Royalist during the first American Revolution.
Actually, the much maligned Medicare program has been shown to be more cost effective and have greater customer satisfaction than private insurance. Most Americans approve of Social Security. Most US citizens approve of the US military, though they may be wasteful of funds. Most US citizens were pretty proud of NASA when we landed on the moon. Got to be careful with those absolute statements.
I have a solution, which I call Clean Sweep, which is aimed at defeating 100% of the House in the primaries, and 1/3 of the Senate in the primaries. If the incumbents survive the primaries, defeat them at the election.
Why?
Most of us agree on one thing -> Congress is a huge problem.
So start over. Duh
Can't be done? Well, if we are truly a significant majority, then if we vote for anyone other than the incumbent, the incumbent can't win.
BTW, MIT grad here, with at least as many functioning brain cells as you claim to have, sold a 1% company to work at $13/hour in a Community College in a pay-it-forward environment.
Pleased to engage you in any argument you wish to put forward.
1st question is what % of the 1% is 1st generation? You claim most, I would say the % is small.
What is the rationale for raising tax on the 1%? Doesn't matter where it flows, the point is the message. Pay it forward or pay it to the government. Your choice.
Now, now... I think you're being a little overly satirical here, juvenalian. I think there is some level of overall dissatisfaction and for very good reason. And it's going to grow as costs escalate and more and more are denied employment, medical care, and prescription drugs, etc. This is not to speak of our racial problems - you can't have equal opportunity without opportunity. I think we do have some problems.
FUCK YOU.
My sentiments exactly. If you're not with us, you're against us.
That sounds a little too much like what Bush said after 9/11 something to the effect of "You're either with us (America) or you're against us.
You are probably an EEVUL rich wall street banker who eats children of minorities with a golden fork stolen from a hardworking homeless teenage prostitute.