Forum Post: Real Demands, That Will Really Work.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 1:13 a.m. EST by Frederick
(37)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
1.) National Wi-Fi (Access to information, it will also circulate the millions paid for the service into the economy.) 2.) Green Energy, Water and Resource Act. ( Aimed at reducing water, and electricity bills to Free. A one time product purchase to power houses ) 3.) High Speed Rail System (To connect the cities and create jobs) 4.) Technology Grant (For every person over 18 only redeemable to purchase computer device made by an American company) 5.) Electric Car Act (Mass production of a single electric car standard) Model T... 6.) Land Act. (Owner laws of unoccupied land must be examined in aim of selling land to people for reasonable prices to develop green communities that grow their own food) 7.) Wholistic Healthcare Reform Act (approach medicine from all angles including preventive and natural remedies while also focusing on reducing cost. ) 8.) Education Reform (School Age Change, Three Year Old Pre K Four Year Old School Age. Early Focus on Math and Sciences.) 9.) Small Business Investment Act (Give small business a chance to rebuild the nation, big business has seemed to fail) 10.) Increase In Global PR (Let us stop spending more money on war than we do on humanitarian campaigns)
Here is a list of demands that will change our economy, our lives, and the world. More details into these Acts and demands coming soon but for now this is what we need, not what we want.
Some of those ideas date to the communes of the 60's or life on a Israeli kibbutz
[Deleted]
I have wasted several minutes of your life because your responding to my post....???
Its great to generate ideas....just sayin some of its not new.
Dude, this OWS effort may be for the long haul.....
If your getting red in the face and labeling me as 'insolent' I am concerned for you having a heart attack or something before the OWS effort is concluded........
If your life is going to be wasted by hearing others views maybe your the one not up to task for this effort.
Sorry dude, that was ment for the other guy above your comment... Gawdoftruth or whatever he calls his self.... I'm truly sorry...
apology accepted, thank you for manning up
I like how none of the proposed solutions actually address the problems. Made me lol.
The problem is? It is addressed, this is a long term plan... This cannot be fixed like magic.. Think about it some more....
I've done a lot of thinking about it. http://ablogandabrain.blogspot.com/2011/10/open-response-to-occupy-wall-st-and.html
Ok, yes you have thought about... But 10000 people make a market, a farming co, come on... Made me lol... Anyway you said a lot in that link, my advice to you would be to say less and help and encourage more... Peace
Thanks for giving it a read.
We must force change. Demand the removal of every appointee to every Federal Agency who has worked for Wall Street in the past 10 years. Also demand a ban on lobbyists from capitol hill. That’s the regime change we need. That sends a wakeup call to Washington and to Wall Street, and everything else falls into place from there.
i like the way the ideas and discussions are coming forth and proceeding. i would like to urge everyone to be keeping notes on thier own, as communications and correspondences will be, I think, very important, even later on... however i also believe strongly that it is highly important to watch our small words and phrasing which show signs of casual-habitual negative inflection. even in straightforward speech and conversation, neg-inflected words are a loss, or unnecessary diversion, of forward-flowing positive mental energy, for the speaker as well as the audience. we need to conserve and focus all the power of positive thought and intention, let us not squander - woops... here would be an example; so how to turn that statement into one with a positive intention behind it? - 'let us concentrate every thought' ...and every watt of potent-passion-energy, into the vortex before us!
Brilliant, thank you.
I am a teacher who started in 1973 and just retired. I started at 6800 when I retired I made 77,000. It was the teachers union that gave me that great salary. The school district continued to raise taxes every year so I could have a decent salary.The union always put the pressure on the board so they had to raise taxes. I am now retired with a state pension of 60,000 and social security of 25 thousand. I am making more in retirement than I did while teaching, plus the pay my full health care. It was the teachers union that did that for me and will continue to do it for all those who work in the teaching profession. School districts can raise the taxes as much as they want and if the people don't pay them they lose their houses. We have a great system thanks to the NEA and our state organization. I can live better than while I worked. Support our unions, they can make our retirement spectacular.
ultimately, you are not in a position and nobody is to brainstorm up mere demands. demands are stupid and infantile. complaints and then problem defintions and then detailed problem solutions are great. that requires time and homework to generate, not bong hits and then a brainstormed imagine yourself as emperor of the world Scrawl. this kind of thing does not help the movement, it just gives the powers that be ammo against us and prevents meaningful conversations which have depth or open source research and problem solving because you and everyone else imagines we can just skip all the steps and churn out "demands." Listen to the other people in the movement who are wisely saying NO to demands lists. I have demands, they are to the movement itself- thats where the real game is.
"Would you rather have war in this land? Do not confront me work with me...Civil unrest could very well lead to civil war... This list will prevent civil war.... Infantile, we are all infants in conciseness, which explains your poor choice of words.... You should be telling me how to make the list better not how it will never work."
↧ gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago
no, you need to drop making lists of demands. period. until you do open source research and science centered problem solving with other people, you have nothing to say worth repeating. your brain storming in ignorance. it sounds really really awesome to you- but for many people your tone def. Making demands is itself a sign of infantilism. period. Take responsibility and start working the problems in a deep and real way. I should not have to run through this further with you. This is a ludicrous sense of direction, it is not helping the movement and its not useful or meaningful for long term strategy in fact all it is is a giant set of red rings to give the pundits a clear target.
I don't want war. how i stop the war is to work the problems in a deep way and address the war. Not make demands. I'm an adult, not a seven year old, not a hostage taker, not a terrorist. I don't make demands, i communicate evolutionary truths. If ten thousand people follow my example we can have an evolution. If you run around like a bunch of punk alpha dominant azzholes, i promise you, all of your demands will lead to nothing but scorn and alienation.
Making demands worked for Martin Luther during the reformation, for the founding fathers during the American revolution, abolitionists who fought against slavery, Europeans who wanted the Berlin wall down, Russians who wanted to dissolve the Soviet Union, Cubans who wanted to get rid of Batista, Libyans who want to get rid of Qaddafi, and Egyptians who wanted a regime change in Cairo.
No movement has been successful without leadership, organization, structure, vision or purpose.
sounds great. in each instance making demands was only part of a much larger and more complicated communication strategy. the old ways of making change happen are not as powerful nor as effective as science and truth centered change. Failing to work the problems scientifically and jumping into demands is super quick super simple super lazy thinking and does not have anything to do with real problem solving process.
This is my last comment to you... Stop judging, and trying to sound smart, because you don't sound smart.... The media is asking for demands, and why be in the streets for nothing?... A list is negotiable, and can be revised... Help do not Hinder, or just go join the other side... We must stick together, we may not like all of each others ideas but we respect them... You have waisted several minutes of my life with your insolence... Good luck to you.
This is not just a message from me. This is what the assembly seems to have decided. demands are not helpful. Your the one wasting my time.
God of Truth, you certainly can’t expect that a movement without a means to an end will be productive. Maybe this list of demands isn’t a holistic solution, but certainly there must be a concept of what the end state looks like. It cannot be formed in an instant, but there must be focus and not just the rhetoric of “science and truth centered change.” Be part of the solution...offer a plan.
but i can expect that we will find good solid means to that end instead of self sabotaging means to that end. Change your communication strategy. These are main political issues which you find to be critical. Now ask people to join you in reasearching them and working on these problems open source. You think you have the end product. instead you have a starting point. remove the "demands" from "demands" and replace with "these are the issues i want to discuss which seem critical to me." There you go. Thats the real process. "Demands " is itself what big Bruddah wants precisely because that makes us the ones holding wall street hostage. Domestic terrorism even when called non violent is still in essence domestic terrorism. Terrorists issue demands. Evolutionary patriots form think tanks.
Good job…much better than the attacks levied in previous posts. Agree it’s a starting point and your correct that non violence can be terroristic in nature, but that implies fear…who’s afraid and what are they afraid of? Change? Will of the people? The severing of puppet strings?
Copy paste your insolence somewhere else.... We must demand something, or fight for nothing... You can't be so stupid that you don't contain common sense? Yeah...
it is not me being insolent, its you. Its not me lacking common sense, its you. And while we do fight for something we shoot ourselves in the foot making "demands" instead of more adult forms of communication.
Well good luck with your high and mighty approach.... Peace
ultimately, you are not in a position and nobody is to brainstorm up mere demands. demands are stupid and infantile. complaints and then problem defintions and then detailed problem solutions are great. that requires time and homework to generate, not bong hits and then a brainstormed imagine yourself as emperor of the world Scrawl. this kind of thing does not help the movement, it just gives the powers that be ammo against us and prevents meaningful conversations which have depth or open source research and problem solving because you and everyone else imagines we can just skip all the steps and churn out "demands." Listen to the other people in the movement who are wisely saying NO to demands lists. I have demands, they are to the movement itself- thats where the real game is.
to get serious requires a few things they don't have. like chat admins who aren't ego serving propaganda tools, a wiki, 1001 sub forums, an actual game plan, a straight up political platform... you know.. basic organizational things sane people do BEFORE protesting.. like figure out a diplomacy and logic centered metaprocess to give their chatadmins so that they don't really just drive out even more people than the trolls. Adminatrolla. trollaAdmin. Whats the difference to somebody whos got the truth facing a propaganda tool abusing admin powers to push their agenda? how can you prevent such a thing? Metaprocess. did i mention metaprocess? and science diplomacy science psychology science sociology and all those textbooks to read B4 protesting?
you can't have capitalism without a free(SLAVE) market. but you can have a free market without capitalism. And thats strangely the only way it CAN work.
Marketing 101 was fascinating. I admit thats a lot less than a bachelors but its sure more than enough to see whats really going on given the other things I know. Capitalism is not the problem since it does not exist. corporate oligarchy is the problem. capitalism has never been tried. I am a democracy guy. in order for real democracy to function a free market system is required. Thats not capitalism. thats a free market system. there is a subtle difference there which most people would miss. I will again repeat. Neither capitalism nor marxism nor communism nor socialism has ever existed. All of those governments were oligarchy pretending to be something as a con scam. Telling that simple truth gets one banned out of the Chat by either a capitalist or a socialist whos pissed you just said their pet ideology isn't real. It isn't. anybody who thinks that it is is accidentally playing for team corporate oligarchy as a tool. the ONLY system worth talking about is DEMOCRACY. how democracy HANDLES a FREE MARKET system is dynamic and interesting and NOT capitalism.
o. yes. no. yes. what? making change is not reliant on changing the money system one tenth as much as it is on changing the informational ecology. Going to a gold standard as an idea is a proof of ignorance, not a solution. Really the end game is we evolve out of money. To do that we evolve first new currencies and new economic strategies. this leads to economic singularity in about 50 years. If everyone is a millionaire how much you get depends on exactly the material valuation of that money. Which is to say that by the time money becomes obsolete everyone will live like the current millionaire. Tangible items to other tangible items? the real economy is about ideas, change the ideas and everything changes. the problem with the tangible economy is it does not change; its a static reality. you can't make a meaningful gold standard with only enough gold to represent on millionth of the economy. You can make a purely imaginal money system work; but it has to be subject to moral and ethical laws. This is about pinning down those moral and ethical laws and implementing them in new currencies; not trying to imagine a control freak impossible non solution because of the simplicity with which you go about thinking over the problem.
once again. there has never been a socialist or capitalist economy. in all instances such nations were oligarchies. using a mask and a con scam and telling their dupes and pwns that they were something other than oligarchy. the big hump to get over is that the USA oligarchy and the Soviet oligarchy are in on this lie against the rest of us TOGETHER. Neither of them was ever anything other than an oligarchy. both claimed some other system in order to have US fight over the ideals of THAT system while they secretly shafted us all playing a completely different game.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150343790359248&set=a.10150264906064248.348293.511989247&type=1&theater
Ok, I understand the need for details, and the details will be worked out moving forward... This is not about which ism works the best, it's about what's best for the people of America...
thats not up for you to dictate. your list as so many others makes fine points. in an infantile manner. detached from reality.
Would you rather have war in this land? Do not confront me work with me...Civil unrest could very well lead to civil war... This list will prevent civil war.... Infantile, we are all infants in conciseness, which explains your poor choice of words.... You should be telling me how to make the list better not how it will never work.
no, you need to drop making lists of demands. period. until you do open source research and science centered problem solving with other people, you have nothing to say worth repeating. your brain storming in ignorance. it sounds really really awesome to you- but for many people your tone def. Making demands is itself a sign of infantilism. period. Take responsibility and start working the problems in a deep and real way. I should not have to run through this further with you. This is a ludicrous sense of direction, it is not helping the movement and its not useful or meaningful for long term strategy in fact all it is is a giant set of red rings to give the pundits a clear target.
I don't want war. how i stop the war is to work the problems in a deep way and address the war. Not make demands. I'm an adult, not a seven year old, not a hostage taker, not a terrorist. I don't make demands, i communicate evolutionary truths. If ten thousand people follow my example we can have an evolution. If you run around like a bunch of punk alpha dominant azzholes, i promise you, all of your demands will lead to nothing but scorn and alienation.
ultimately, you are not in a position and nobody is to brainstorm up mere demands. demands are stupid and infantile. complaints and then problem defintions and then detailed problem solutions are great. that requires time and homework to generate, not bong hits and then a brainstormed imagine yourself as emperor of the world Scrawl. this kind of thing does not help the movement, it just gives the powers that be ammo against us and prevents meaningful conversations which have depth or open source research and problem solving because you and everyone else imagines we can just skip all the steps and churn out "demands." Listen to the other people in the movement who are wisely saying NO to demands lists. I have demands, they are to the movement itself- thats where the real game is.
to get serious requires a few things they don't have. like chat admins who aren't ego serving propaganda tools, a wiki, 1001 sub forums, an actual game plan, a straight up political platform... you know.. basic organizational things sane people do BEFORE protesting.. like figure out a diplomacy and logic centered metaprocess to give their chatadmins so that they don't really just drive out even more people than the trolls. Adminatrolla. trollaAdmin. Whats the difference to somebody whos got the truth facing a propaganda tool abusing admin powers to push their agenda? how can you prevent such a thing? Metaprocess. did i mention metaprocess? and science diplomacy science psychology science sociology and all those textbooks to read B4 protesting?
you can't have capitalism without a free(SLAVE) market. but you can have a free market without capitalism. And thats strangely the only way it CAN work.
Marketing 101 was fascinating. I admit thats a lot less than a bachelors but its sure more than enough to see whats really going on given the other things I know. Capitalism is not the problem since it does not exist. corporate oligarchy is the problem. capitalism has never been tried. I am a democracy guy. in order for real democracy to function a free market system is required. Thats not capitalism. thats a free market system. there is a subtle difference there which most people would miss. I will again repeat. Neither capitalism nor marxism nor communism nor socialism has ever existed. All of those governments were oligarchy pretending to be something as a con scam. Telling that simple truth gets one banned out of the Chat by either a capitalist or a socialist whos pissed you just said their pet ideology isn't real. It isn't. anybody who thinks that it is is accidentally playing for team corporate oligarchy as a tool. the ONLY system worth talking about is DEMOCRACY. how democracy HANDLES a FREE MARKET system is dynamic and interesting and NOT capitalism.
o. yes. no. yes. what? making change is not reliant on changing the money system one tenth as much as it is on changing the informational ecology. Going to a gold standard as an idea is a proof of ignorance, not a solution. Really the end game is we evolve out of money. To do that we evolve first new currencies and new economic strategies. this leads to economic singularity in about 50 years. If everyone is a millionaire how much you get depends on exactly the material valuation of that money. Which is to say that by the time money becomes obsolete everyone will live like the current millionaire. Tangible items to other tangible items? the real economy is about ideas, change the ideas and everything changes. the problem with the tangible economy is it does not change; its a static reality. you can't make a meaningful gold standard with only enough gold to represent on millionth of the economy. You can make a purely imaginal money system work; but it has to be subject to moral and ethical laws. This is about pinning down those moral and ethical laws and implementing them in new currencies; not trying to imagine a control freak impossible non solution because of the simplicity with which you go about thinking over the problem.
once again. there has never been a socialist or capitalist economy. in all instances such nations were oligarchies. using a mask and a con scam and telling their dupes and pwns that they were something other than oligarchy. the big hump to get over is that the USA oligarchy and the Soviet oligarchy are in on this lie against the rest of us TOGETHER. Neither of them was ever anything other than an oligarchy. both claimed some other system in order to have US fight over the ideals of THAT system while they secretly shafted us all playing a completely different game.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150343790359248&set=a.10150264906064248.348293.511989247&type=1&theater
I am having a hard time not laughing at this..... 3 year old pre-k and 4 year old school age???? Have you ever even HAD a child to raise???? I just... I can't address the rest of the mess because that bit is just too much. Seriously? I'm not capable of teaching my 3 and 4 year olds???? Thanks for the vote of confidence, there.
My three year old could write, now he is four and doing math problems. If he was in a good school not daycare he would be able to read... Trust me children are smart but some do develope later. If one child can't do we hold the ones that can back or do we nights those that can.... Also daycare cost are just plan ridiculous...
I have a 5 year old in public school (an award winning, highly ranked, public school... might I add.) He's not ready to read. He's having a hard time with his fine motor skills because he's FIVE! He was not ready to leave me, really, until this year... but we did the year of pre-k to "prepare him". Any earlier and it would have reeked havok on his sense of security.
There is a reason school starts at age 5, and not sooner. It's when kids are ready (for the most part). Yea, daycare is expensive... I cared for a little girl for dirt cheap because I love her and I still wanted to pull my hair out because caring for kids who don't belong to you is HARD. Making $4 an hour PLUS all the government regulations and taxes is just plain not worth it... I know it sucks for people who have to work, but it's a reality. Plan your families to avoid the cost of daycare and you will save everyone a headache.
Once again you are thinking about one child... My son played soccer at three, his motor skills are incredible... He wanted to go to school, no separation anxiety... Children develop at different rates, if your child is not ready then that does not mean mine should wait on yours... And your should not have to keep up with mine, it's just whatever is best for the individual and the nation...
I totally agree. My 2 year old is totally potty trained, nearly weaned, hitting baseballs in mid-air, reciting ABC's and has no separation anxiety... BUT we have a largely generalized education system. Our teachers teach the same thing teachers across the country teach and that's that. I work in my sons classroom and SEE the disparity. Our system isn't set up to handle it and so we push kids along. We don't put kids in grades based upon ability and maturity, we do it based upon age so that no one gets their feelings hurt.
I mean... I'm all for starting at the same age, really. 5 is a good age, IMO. Kids start breaking off from there... I know 4 y/os who are well above my son academically, but they may be behind maturity-wise, and that can effect learning in a classroom of 30 kids. Start at a point and then advance kids from there... but most 4 y/o's are not ready for todays kindergarten. The ones who are? Teach them at home, or choose a good daycare. Any decent program should offer Pre-k.
China, India, Africa, all these places start their children earlier and it shows when they get here... They out perform us in academics consistently, how do we change this?
My sons school is filled with kids who came from India, and China. Seriously, he is one of two non-asian students in his class. They came HERE to offer their kids a better future... so I don't think we should model after their systems. If anything, it's the parents. Parental involvement is key and we don't get that here because parents treat education as paid daycare instead of a chance for their child to excell. There is no monetary investment into their child's education, so they put forth no effort. Put the choice back into the hands of the parents and you will see better outcomes.
That is true, I'm not saying their children are smarter. I'm saying their adults are, well some of them... The opportunity is here, but our jobs are there. Mostly because of lower wages and taxes but also because the math and science it takes to build an iPod must be more abundant over seas...
They aren't smarter... it's the mentality that gets them ahead. Here, Asian families live 3 generations in a 3 bedroom home. Both parents work and the grandparents care for the children. They share expenses, save up before buying and then don't pay for daycare. I'm sure in their home countries it is much the same. Families do whatever they need to get ahead and their tax codes and labor laws allow for more opportunities. We don't have that mentality here, so we lag behind. Our laws and codes discourage business and so they go overseas.
Thanks Leanne! :)
4.) In today's global economies, what is truly 'made in America'?
If we achieve this list, a lot of things will be...