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Forum Post: Re-balancing the system. Real-estate reform. Government working for you.

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 13, 2012, 1:12 p.m. EST by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

See.

The thing is.

There are a lot of foreclosed properties.

Properties which the Banks have abandoned after they foreclosed on them.

The Banks don't want to resell these properties, as they can't at current market value. These properties are a glut on the housing market.

To sell these properties. The banks would need to revalue them to a level that could be supported by today's average income. This would cause a revaluing of all properties. They could have done this with the family's they foreclosed-on, they could have revalued to make it possible for those family's to continue in a successful purchase process.

The revaluing would more closely reflect reality of what can be afforded. But this would also cause ( as the Banks see it ) a major loss of profits on their end.

The Banks would prefer to see this abandoned housing torn down, so that they could go back to having a real scarcity of housing to fuel new building at the rates and prices that they want, not at rates and prices that are appropriate and affordable. They can not see that this is not sustainable.

To have the Government claim these abandoned properties and then resell them to people who are working, at prices that they can afford, would help restructure the market towards reality based pricing. It would save wasting good materials that are in good structures and get good family's off the street. It would bolster shrinking neighborhoods and prevent them from losing services because of a dwindling tax base. Services like schools, police, firemen, grocery stores, Hospitals etc. etc.

The proceeds from reselling these properties could be funneled straight back into supporting social services. While advancing the re-balancing of the system.

Petition to sign and share. Save Homes, Save People and save the economy while paying down the National Debt.: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

I am twittering this post.

If "you" like it circulate it as well.

See also 60 minutes episode:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57344513/there-goes-the-neighborhood/

also a thank you from Sen. Bernie Sanders ( please share )

Dear Friend,

Thank you for signing the petition supporting The Saving American Democracy Amendment. The outpouring of support from you and tens of thousands of others sends a loud and clear message that the American people want to undo the disastrous 5-4 Citizens United Supreme Court decision. We must stop corporations from spending unlimited sums of money, without disclosure, to influence Americans elections. American democracy is not for sale.

Reverse the Citizens United decision.The Constitution is an extraordinary document. It has served our country well for more than two centuries. In my view, however, this is one of those rare times when a constitutional amendment is the only way to save the democracy that our founders created.

Passing a constitutional amendment will not be easy and it will not happen tomorrow. It is a long and difficult process and there will be many bumps along the road. Like other great struggles in our modern history – women's rights, civil rights, environmental protection, etc. – we will need to bring millions of Americans together to demand that Congress and state legislatures represent the needs of ordinary Americans, and not just the wealthy and powerful.

The promise of democracy -- the essential democracy this amendment is directed at protecting – is that the ultimate power in our nation rests with its people, and not with corporations or even elected officials. Our joint effort to defend this nation's democratic electoral process is something that speaks to what being an American is about, and something we should be very proud of.

I hope you ask your friends to sign the petition. And if you aren't already a subscriber to The Bernie Buzz, we'll sign you up for the electronic newsletter to keep you posted on what's happening to the amendment and other news in Washington. (If you do not wish to receive the Bernie Buzz, you may unsubscribe below.)

Sincerely, Bernie U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders

SHARE THIS

Please Feel Free to Tell a Friend E-mail: E-mail: E-mail:

Please do not respond to this email, it is not a monitored address. If you would like to send Senator Sanders a comment click here. To unsubscribe to all newsletters from this sender, click here. Privacy Policy

Want to sign the petition? Click http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

67 Comments

67 Comments


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[-] 2 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

the only problem i see is who cares about a banks profit? they make money on money they never put up. its unfair. to be equal i should be able to pay for my home with money I never put up. it is because of fractional banking that homes became so expensive, and people became slaves to work and pay for them. if banks actually had to pay hard cash for each home they supposedly finance. we would be only paying $10-20k for our homes, and there would be alot more money on the table for american families.

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Have you considered authoring a petition yourself? We can not have too much input going to our government on things that need to be done, fixed, accomplished. Or how they can be accomplished. Bank reform is a necessary issue for a healthy economy, and it was mentioned in the State of the Union speech last night ( 01/24/2012 ). So we need to give direction/input as to what we the people see as wrong and needing attention. The more complete input from the more sources ( peoples voice ) the better.

[-] 1 points by smmv2005 (106) 2 years ago

Hi dear Friends Do you know why USA keep about 27000 nuclear weapons, But Iran has no right even to have peaceful nuclear technology?

[+] -9 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Grow-up: smmv2005 (1) 1 minute ago.

[-] 0 points by wigger (-48) 2 years ago

Do you people really not know what happens to foreclosed homes? The banks write off their losses against income at the full retail value of the house at the time it was purchased then they sell the properties to aggregators at a low price and then write off that loss against the loan amount. The aggregators package homes to sell to investors who get fat tax considerations themselves.

Foreclosed homes are a cash cow to banks. That "abandoned" house you are dying to get for free has probably changed hands two or three times since being foreclosed and you will never get your grubby little hands on it unless you have the cash.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

wigger

That may have been how things used to be done but not any more as there are too many properties that have been foreclosed, and the Banks are abandoning them. It is now the investors on WallStreet who are losing, no-one is looking after the investors. Banks do not have a vested interest in the properties anymore.

You should also see the Documentary - Inside Job.

60 minutes episode:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57344513/there-goes-the-neighborhood/

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Isn't what you are proposing the very same thing that you oppose regarding the transfer of jobs overseas. I see absolutely no difference. Please note:

  1. Jobs went overseas and now we purchase goods at a cheaper price. This is BAD because we now have unemployment.

  2. Houses will be sold at a reevaluated price and we will have cheaper housing. This is BAD because it will also depress the market for those that continue to pay their mortgages and may have already paid off their mortgage.

You really should give some of your "instant" great ideas before you put them in writing. Do simply state a great idea with NO regard to how it will impact fellow Americans.

This is really called GREED if it was being done by a large corporation, NO??

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

ronjj Your comment really makes no sense.

How can you compare reselling abandoned properties by the USA government to USA citizens as something like exporting work/jobs out of the country?

As for the home owners who are struggling to make payments on their overpriced homes. They could also benefit in renegotiation of their mortgages to reflect reality.

What this is called is restructuring due to corporate greed.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

OK - great idea - how about ME now. I hold over $500,000 in commercial mortgages on by business (sole proprietor) can I also get this reduced to the fair value of the commerical property in today's market. That would be about $325,000. This DOES MAKE SENSE to me - if you are going to do it for everyone else.

So I also want to stop making mortgage payments on my house and get it reevaluated to today's market value. That would save me another $100,000 or more.

You are proposing something that you have not even given sufficient consideration to. What you would end up with is a lot of really PISSED off Americans who bought their homes several years ago, are paying a greatly inflated interest rate, compared to what the people that are losing their homes were paying, etc.

There is absolutely no FAIRNESS involved in your proposition at all except in the bailout you are proposing for the people that bought overpriced homes, at cheap rates, at terms that they could not afford (to coin a favorite word of today's youngsters) and that were not SUSTAINABLE.

You have no idea how PISSED off a lot of us middle class workers would be if this was done.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

im for land owners losing their ass, since me and my family havent owned land for 3 generations now, and this not by choice.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

What is the reason for your desire to see others suffer (landowners). If you want to own land and do not - what is the reason, and what kind of land would you own if available. Are you talking about usable land such as that to build a home on, or productive land such as a farm??

Just don't get your reasoning. If I said that I did not own a car and I would like to see all car owners losing their ass - would that make any sense to you.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

if every land owner, who collectively are landhogs, lost their ass, then there would be a reset, so that we the people might be able to own something. So there is actually alot of reasoning behind this. Its not about my will to force suffering on others, more of a others need to lie in the bed they make for others, when they witheld the earth from their fellow man.

Part of this is the government witholding land from us, because they think they serve, the "public" and charging us to camp or whatever. When in fact there is nowhere we can go and camp for free, let alone, squat. I have to pay a man no matter what I do on the earth. Too bad I wasnt the first man on the earth, and lived to be 10,000 years, cause then then everyman on earth would be paying me rent, under our current economic system. Its just plain foolish.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

ronjj

No one said that it would be pretty, easy or painless. But the fact remains that the property value is false and it is about 50% higher than it should be. This situation did not develop overnight it took decades to make happen. But now the abuse has hit the proverbial fan. It is not sustainable and will need to be balanced. Revaluation is only part of the process. Should people be angry? You bet! But they are also partly to blame for not taking action before now. We don't need to point fingers, but we do need to fix what has been broken.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

If you believe that each part of our economy works independently of all other parts - GO AHEAD and fix the broken part.

You will find out that any such conclusion is totally false and any re-evaluation on a scale such as you are proposing will have an impact on everything else from individual salaries, costs of all American made products, all investments, all retirement accounts, stocks, bonds and ALL OF IT.

It sure won't be pretty, easy or painless. Cut the price of those foreclosed houses by 50% and your salary by the same amount and see how you like it. The reason that those houses seem to be abandoned by banks is simply because to put them all on the market at one time would totally destroy the value of homes not purchased under such crazy conditions. If you put those foreclosed homes on the market at 50%, - can I also purchase your home for 50% on the dollar (assuming that you have one).

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You bet that this is no small or isolated matter. The poor business practices are wide spread. There is a lot that is way out of proportion to what it should be. The economic melt down did not happen because of sound business practices. The causes have not magically disappeared with the bail-outs either. The problems have yet to be addressed.

Painful? You Bet! That is the thing about any process/program/project. The longer it is put off the harder, more painful, more expensive it will become to fix. So do you think we should put off fixing whats broke longer or start fixing now?

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Depends upon what you mean by "start fixing now". You have some kind of a workable plan or just another call to action which everyone ignors?

[-] -3 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

What right does the government have to seize property? or "claim" in your words...where do you suppose that pandoras box would end once opened?

[-] 3 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

The Confiscation Acts were laws passed by the United States Congress during the Civil War with the intention of freeing the slaves still held by the Confederate forces in the South.

The First Confiscation Act of 1861 authorized the confiscation of any Confederate property by Union forces ("property" included slaves). This meant that all slaves that fought or worked for the Confederate military were freed whenever they were "confiscated" by Union troops. The bill passed in the House 60-48 and in the Senate 24-11. The act was signed into law by President Lincoln on August 6, 1861.

The Second Confiscation Act was passed on July 17, 1862. It stated that any Confederate official, military or civilian, who did not surrender within 60 days of the act's passage would have their slaves freed. However, this act was only applicable to Confederate areas that had already been occupied by the Union Army. All slaves that took refuge in Union areas were "captives of war" and would be set free.

U.S. President Abraham Lincoln opposed these acts, believing that they would push the border states towards siding with the Confederacy, he nonetheless signed them to make them law. The growing movement towards emancipation was aided by these acts, which eventually led to the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863.

The Pandora in this case was the Emancipation Proclamation.

[-] -3 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

the Confederate states were a self-proclaimed separate nation from the United states and the army and citizens were therefore not US citizens...

It doesn't apply

[-] 3 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

By your so-called "argument" anyone in the US can declare secession from the United States and be exempt from US law.

LOL Why don't you try it? Please.

[-] -3 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

where did I say that? you are talking about property....in the CSA the "property" was no longer under US sovereign rights, after the cessation it was then under CSA sovereign....

you could surrender your citizenship at any time, but you would still be subject to US law just as foreign nationals are, and as CSA citizens were....but, your property rights would change with your citizenship, as would many of the other constitutionally protected rights

[-] 3 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

So, CSA citizens were not "under US sovereign rights" as they were not US citizens, but someone who surrendered their US citizenship would still be subject to US law "as foreign nationals are, and as CSA citizens were"?

That is a most illuminating argument, because it dramatically and conclusively disproves the very point you are trying to make.

Thanks for the laugh! LOL

[-] -3 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

no, it does no such thing, the property of those in CSA states was confiscated as "spoils of war" and not because the government had a right to confiscate the property of US citizens, it confiscated the property of US enemies in the case of the CSA and the enemy combatants engaged in war against the USA, Like Robert E Lee, who's home was confiscated and now is the site of Arlington National Cemetery....confiscated NOT due to the authority of the US government to take the real property of citizens of the US, but instead because the General renounced his US citizenship for citizenship in the Confederate states...

The US federal government does not have the right or power to confiscate individual property for the sole purpose to transfer ownership to another citizen outright...to attempt to do so would be a lawless and repugnant usurpation of power not granted by the controlling documents of government.....

[-] 3 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Ignoring historical facts does not support your bullshit.

An Act to confiscate Property used for Insurrectionary Purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That if, during the present or any future insurrection against the Government of the United States, after the President of the United States shall have declared, by proclamation, that the laws of the United States are opposed, and the execution thereof obstructed, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the power vested in the marshals by law, any person or persons, his, her, or their agent, attorney, or employé, shall purchase or acquire, sell or give, any property of whatsoever kind or description, with intent to use or employ the same, or suffer the same to be used or employed, in aiding, abetting, or promoting such insurrection or resistance to the laws, or any person or persons engaged therein; or if any person or persons, being the owner or owners of any such property, shall knowingly use or employ, or consent to the use or employment of the same as aforesaid, all such property is hereby declared to be lawful subject of prize and capture wherever found; and it shall be the duty of the President of the United States to cause the same to be seized, confiscated, and condemned.

SEC. 2. And be it further enacted, That such prizes and capture shall be condemned in the district or circuit court of the United States having jurisdiction of the amount, or in admiralty in any district in which the same may be seized, or into which they may be taken and proceedings first instituted.

SEC. 3. And be it further enacted, That the Attorney-General, or any district attorney of the United States in which said property may at the time be, may institute the proceedings of condemnation, and in such case they shall be wholly for the benefit of the United States; or any person may file an information with such attorney, in which case the proceedings shall be for the use of such informer and the United States in equal parts.

SEC. 4. And be it further enacted, That whenever hereafter, during the present insurrection against the Government of the United States, any person claimed to be held to labor or service under the law of any State, shall be required or permitted by the person to whom such labor or service is claimed to be due, or by the lawful agent of such person, to take up arms against the United States, or shall be required or permitted by the person to whom such labor or service is claimed to be due, or his lawful agent, to work or to be employed in or upon any fort, navy yard, dock, armory, ship, entrenchment, or in any military or naval service whatsoever, against the Government and lawful authority of the United States, then, and in every such case, the person to whom such labor or service is claimed to be due shall forfeit his claim to such labor, any law of the State or of the United States to the contrary notwithstanding. And whenever thereafter the person claiming such labor or service shall seek to enforce his claim, it shall be a full and sufficient answer to such claim that the person whose service or labor is claimed had been employed in hostile service against the Government of the United States, contrary to the provisions of this act.

APPROVED, August 6, 1861

[-] -3 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

actually that EXACTLY backs up my contention....

"any person or persons, his, her, or their agent, attorney, or employé, shall purchase or acquire, sell or give, any property of whatsoever kind or description, with intent to use or employ the same, or suffer the same to be used or employed, in aiding, abetting, or promoting such insurrection or resistance to the laws, or any person or persons engaged therein; or if any person or persons, being the owner or owners of any such property, shall knowingly use or employ, or consent to the use or employment of the same as aforesaid, all such property is hereby declared to be lawful subject of prize and capture wherever found"

spoils of war...or "insurrection" as stated in the text...

I guess if you can prove that the property holding banks, or their shareholders are leading an insurrection against the USA, THEN you can confiscate their property....good luck with that...fuckwit

[-] 3 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

insurrection n. an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government.

  1. By definition, insurrection is not war.
  2. The text you cite is not from The Confiscation Acts.
  3. The Confiscation Acts do not include the term "war".

Conclusion: you are talking out of your ass.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

that text is right out of your post....

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

"Spoils of war" is not in the law, and insurrection is not war. Check a dictionary.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

do you always have this much difficulty comprehending things?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Perhaps it still should.

Lots of confederates still seem to be around, and still in denial.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

If it is used in favor of the people not as it has in the past for corporations, Eminent Domain can be a good thing and not a criminal thing. Like anything else that government does it must reflect the needs and address the good of the people. That is why we need to continue our work to return government to the people.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

No...it's not for the good of the people, it's for the good of "some" people....and the government doesn't have the right, or power to do such a thing....

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You are wrong thrice.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

no, YOU are wrong.....please show me where in the constitution the government has the right to seize property?

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Article I, Section 2, Clause 3

Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers

Article I, Section 8, Clause 1

The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

Article I, Section 9, Clause 4

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

This clause basically refers to a tax on property, such as a tax based on the value of land, as well as a capitation.

There is also the 16th Amendment ...

[-] -1 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

taxation is not seizure of real property...in order to seize the property of anyone they would have to seize the property of everyone..to be uniform

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Don't pay your taxes and see what happens. It's called a Tax Lien, and the action taken is seizure of property.

Also, many republitards here directly equate taxes with seizure of property.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Well, there was that whole manifest destiny thingy.

They confiscated lots of property with that one.

Break the correct law and they will take everything you own today, too.

(R)epelican'ts don't need no stinkin' constitution, it gets in the way of business, and profits.

[-] -1 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

did they confiscate property of citizens?...um, no...

and I guess you never heard of the Louisiana purchase?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

So you're trying to blame it on the French??????

Silly.........they kept on going from there.

Confiscated lots of property all the way to the coast.

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

again, they did not seize property from US citizens residing inside US borders.....

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Yeah, sure.

They just took it from the "savages".

A rather twisted vision, you have.

You also ignored that whole break the correct law, and lose it all, clause.

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

don't break the law...seems simple enough

or...don't get caught

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Many of those laws were applied under the majority rules clause.

You know, the old two wolves and one sheep example.

All that is necessary is the "possibility", of intent.

They NEVER apply these laws to the "super citizens".

Just us tiny citizens.

[Removed]

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is called eminent domain. You look it up. You would not take my word for it in the 1st place.

And it is not to be used as general practice to everyday business, but for an extraordinary case of people and property abandonment.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

eminent domain is not a power of the government to remove property from the possession of one person, or entity and assign it to another, it can only be taken (after the owner is compensated) for "public" use.....as in use for ALL.....not specific reassignment from one owner to another...

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So there is no problem, these properties have been foreclosed and the banks have walked away from them leaving them to be looted or torn down.

Just because something has never been done before, for the welfare of all. Does not mean that it can not be done for the welfare of all.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

the constitution prevents you and those like you from tyrannizing the country for the welfare of all....

it DOES mean that it cannot be done, and the government doesn't have the money to do a market valuation purchase of property under eminent domain anyway..

The banks still own the properties, and the shareholders in the banks by extension own them as well, just because the improvements on the property are left in disrepair doesn't create an abandonment of the property itself.....failure to pay the property taxes would accomplish that, but..my guess is that the property taxes are paid, leaving the government no say in the use, or non-use of the improvements

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No you again are wrong o voiceiferous one. Eminent domain happens quite frequently on a state level to acquire properties where people are unwilling to sell so that investors/developers can claim the property.

These properties that I am talking about today have been walked away from. They are not being claimed by anyone.

The neighborhoods are shrinking, towns and cities are shrinking. The tax base is shrinking. So revenue for essential services are shrinking. Individual tax burdens are increasing. Who will benefit from this?

It is past time that Eminent Domain be used to protect the People.

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

we're not talking about state level here, and in those cases the intent is for ALL of the public to benefit, and again it must be compensated for at market prices (public benefit is arguable, and I personally disagree with ANY confiscation of property)

It is not the role of government to prevent towns and neighborhoods from shrinking, nor is it the role of government to maintain a tax base (although that has been co-opted by the centralized liberal planners to be something that it was never intended to be) governments roles are clearly defined by the constitution, and if it operates beyond those limits it is a lawless and tyrannical force.

Who's tax burdens are increasing? and "why" are they increasing?

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Again you are incorrect, mistaken or otherwise wrong. Eminent Domain has been used to get people out of homes and small business out of properties so that major investment groups could get prime real-estate for cheap not for market value which their ( investment group ) intent to purchase drove up. Such things as professional sports stadiums which also get built with the Public dime for a Multi-billion Dollar Franchise that could fund their own building. Let's not even get into under the table money involved.

Just because the Federal government has never exercised it's power of Eminent Domain does not mean that it can't, or in this case that it should not. If you want to see real reform and real justice, you will want to see the Government take and resell these properties at fair market value, supporting neighborhoods, towns, cities, county's and states with a full healthy and fair tax base.

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

I don't want to see extra-constitutional government confiscation....period

and please give me an example of this major investment group obtaining prime real estate at below market prices via eminent domain.....

Sports stadiums are city owned in most cases, and only used by sports teams....

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Here I pity on you slammersworldisback, I mean I take pity on pitiful you. Or something equally charitable.

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The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Read it yourself slammersworldisback.

Then consider this part of your statement : "Market Capitalism is not cronyism, and it's not confiscation, we were founded as a market economy, and as an individualist nation...not as a nation based on "the welfare of all"

[-] 1 points by slammersworldisback (-75) 0 minutes ago

please reference any part of the Constitution or Declaration of Independence (which is NOT law, BTW) related to my comment..... ↥like ↧dislike permalink

It is more then clear to me where you are deluded or where you are trying to ignore facts. As it is clear to most everyone who reads your comments. But please continue.

[-] -1 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

again....find me a portion of either document the places "the welfare of all" above the rights of the individual......

you are the deluded one, your indoctrination is absolute.....even words and facts cannot get in your tiny little closed mind..

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Read the Declaration of Independence, take more than a passing glance at the Constitution. Then rethink your inept response:

[-] 1 points by slammersworldisback (-75) 2 minutes ago

built "for" is the operative statement...and for the record I don't agree with public ownership or construction of edifices of entertainment.....

It reeks of special interests and cronyism.....

Market Capitalism is not cronyism, and it's not confiscation, we were founded as a market economy, and as an individualist nation...not as a nation based on "the welfare of all" the success of each individual encourages the success of "all" but we were not founded to enslave us to one another..... ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

please reference any part of the Constitution or Declaration of Independence (which is NOT law, BTW) related to my comment.....

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I don't have the post handy. But if you will trouble yourself to look there is a post here all about a New York Stadium, and I believe it was built for a Basket ball team. I myself am not real familiar with New York or I would likely recall more details. But you go ahead and use the search bar on the forum page and educate yourself. This is just one example. Look into other stadium histories and I believe you will begin to find many examples of confiscated property. Hell google eminent domain. Don't depend on some one else to tell you what is going on, look for yourself.

[-] -1 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

built "for" is the operative statement...and for the record I don't agree with public ownership or construction of edifices of entertainment.....

It reeks of special interests and cronyism.....

Market Capitalism is not cronyism, and it's not confiscation, we were founded as a market economy, and as an individualist nation...not as a nation based on "the welfare of all" the success of each individual encourages the success of "all" but we were not founded to enslave us to one another.....

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Who said anything about slamming an individuals rights?

Oh yeah. That would be you just below. Sorry.

So in your out of context rave. just which individual are you suggesting that I am dissing? It can't be the Banks or the Corporations, as they are not people. So who exactly?

1 points by slammersworldisback (-75) 1 minute ago

again....find me a portion of either document the places "the welfare of all" above the rights of the individual......

you are the deluded one, your indoctrination is absolute.....even words and facts cannot get in your tiny little closed mind.. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

181,411 signatures for save democracy petition by Bernie Sanders as of 2:47pm 01/13/2012.

14 signatures for save Homes petition by Me as of 2:47pm 01/13/2012.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

182,370 signatures for save democracy petition by Bernie Sanders as of 11:07am 01/14/2012.

15 signatures for save Homes petition by Me as of 9:50pm 01/13/2012.

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

In case you missed it see the last two lines:

From the Constitution of the United States of America. Article I. Section 8.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Constitution of the United States of America.

Article I. section 8.

Section. 8.The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Constitution of the United States of America.

Article I. section 8.

Section. 8.The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Forward environmental change.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/keystone_sotu/?id=33678-4904244-%3Dxzka6x&t=7

186,696 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 10:22am central time 01/19/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 16 signatures as of 01/19/2012 10:22am central time. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Take action. See samples of how below.

183,361 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 10:15am central time 01/15/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 15 signatures. We picked one up at around 9:50pm 01/13/2012. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (23968) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb