Forum Post: Put the CAP on CAPitalism.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 12, 2011, 3:44 p.m. EST by djrf
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What we called freedom (capitalism ) in the past, may not be freedom in the future. We all want a dime for our two cents, but how much is too much? That is, we live as a democracy with a monitory system not a monitory system with a democracy. It's time to put the CAP on CAPitalism. What are your thoughts?
Our money is created, not by the government, but by banks. Many authorities have confirmed this, including the Federal Reserve itself.
http://dallasfed.org/educate/everyday/ev9.html
The only money the government creates today are coins, which compose less than one ten-thousandth of the money supply. Federal Reserve Notes, or dollar bills, are issued by Federal Reserve Banks, all twelve of which are owned by the private banks in their district. Most of our money comes into circulation as bank loans, and it comes with an interest charge attached."
In other words we pay interest on the use of our own money.
According to Margrit Kennedy, a German researcher who has studied this issue extensively, interest now composes 40% of the cost of everything we buy. We don’t see it on the sales slips, but interest is exacted at every stage of production. Suppliers need to take out loans to pay for labor and materials, before they have a product to sell.
For government projects, Kennedy found that the average cost of interest is 50%. If the government owned the banks, it could keep the interest and get these projects at half price. That means governments—state and federal—could double the number of projects they could afford, without costing the taxpayers a single penny more than we are paying now.
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/rights.php
We are Americans we live in a Democracy. We are free to some point and extent and that is why you are able to do what your doing! What you guys and gals are doing on wall street is wonderful! And am proud of you all. But! You are not one with the world all of those occupy people have there own governments there own moral values. As well as there own goals and agenda . I stand behind you and am part of the 99%. But if you guys start going along with this anti Democracy rhetoric. The anti US rhetoric. Then I do not stand with any of you nor will the 98% its one thing to stand up for your rights. To make things better and have a better playing field and to limit the companies and if need be guide them. The Government needs to be downsized but that will take a very long time. But again I am not anti American I am not anti capitalism it works its just when you allow corporations to make the rules and to govern that we have problems and this is what needs to be eliminated. So again watch the message you are getting and push out the ones that will have you throw out the baby with the bath water so to speak.
You are the 98% cut the 1% loose now that would have you go against your country!!!!!
We are Americans we live in a Democracy. We are free to some point and extent and that is why you are able to do what your doing! What you guys and gals are doing on wall street is wonderful! And am proud of you all. But! You are not one with the world all of those occupy people have there own governments there own moral values. As well as there own goals and agenda . I stand behind you and am part of the 99%. But if you guys start going along with this anti Democracy rhetoric. The anti US rhetoric. Then I do not stand with any of you nor will the 98% its one thing to stand up for your rights. To make things better and have a better playing field and to limit the companies and if need be guide them. The Government needs to be downsized but that will take a very long time. But again I am not anti American I am not anti capitalism it works its just when you allow corporations to make the rules and to govern that we have problems and this is what needs to be eliminated. So again watch the message you are getting and push out the ones that will have you throw out the baby with the bath water so to speak.
You are the 98% cut the 1% loose now that would have you go against your country!!!!!
http://rt.com/usa/news/truly-free-people-not/
I don't think you can, people will still find backdoor ways to accumulate wealth. It's less an ideology and more an observation about how people obtain things they need.
Civilization is based on the exchange of goods, exchange of goods is not based on civilization.
Any prohibition on the market is doomed to fail, just look at drug laws, did they really stop anyone from doing what they wanted? No, because the market rules.
Unrestrained, degenerate capitalism -- what's wrong with that? For a democracy, too massive of power concentrations (mega wealthy, mega corpoRATS) can't be allowed, they will always overpower the democracy. Laws can't restrain them.
For a healthy, jobs economy, corporations also have to kept relatively small. Competition is the genius of capitalism -- its what drives innovation and the meeting of needs. Businesses should never be allowed to become so large that competition is stifled.
Unrestrained dog eat dog capitalism ends up with only a handful of maddogs left standing.
Like Microsoft? It's an Alpha dog's world.
Everyones heard of the boiling frog anecdote describing a frog being slowly boiled alive. That's if significant changes occur gradually, people will fail to react in time and will suffer the undesirable consequences.
Over the last century, Americans have become accustomed to a high standard of living. Some more than others, some less. We've always had the poor. And even including the poor, our consumption habits have grown indulgent compared to the rest of the world.
This easy living did not come easy, and some would argue we deserve the rewards that come with progress. The resources that enabled the wealth of this country, are increasingly coming from outside our borders. This is putting a strain on the rest of the world who also are enjoying robust economies better lives.
Mass consumption, produces mass inequality. They say, "old habits die hard." And this includes our government as well. To keep this level of consumption, our beloved FED has elasticized the currency to the point where it cannot be stretched any longer. Something is got to give!
In light of the events of the last boom and bust, the good news is, we're not frogs. And finally this time, it is evident we are sensing something is very wrong. Some of us are having a difficult time putting our finger on it, while others know very well what has occurred and what is about to happen. It's simple economics. Either we go through the pain now, or complete destruction later.
It is evident the American people must find a political solution to this urgent matter.
It's a good thing…people are protesting. Scream, shout, sing, beat the drums. We all have different ideas. That's what make us as a Nation, strong! But it is a time to come together.
Let 's go to Washington DC in the millions, and reclaim our lost liberties.
Agreed. Might I suggest a fully functioning head crusher?
Great..let's start with capping union and public worker pensions
Now you're messing with my "pursuit of happiness". Knock it off, there's plenty of wealth in this country for anyone with the balls to earn it.
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I've never put a gun to anyone's head to make them give me a pay check, pay me their rent, or pay me for their kitchen remodel. So how do you figure I stole it?
Buying politicians to pass laws to benefit you at the expense of others is stealing.
I don't do that, nor would I. But the people that do aren't standing in my way either. I know the rules of the game, and I can still win by them. You just have to know what you're being sold and making the choice not to buy it. When homes in our area preboom were going for 250K, even my wet-behind-the-ears 22 year old self knew that was ridiculous. I waited for the crash and picked up my first house for under 100K. Now, I just buy cheap real estate, fix it up, and rent it out. Oh and miracle of miracles, I don't have to pay of politicians to do it.
Profiting on the loss of others ... the basis of a sound economy.
Yeah actually it kinda is. Any time you can take someone's failure and turn it into a success, you have good economic activity. Do you think the neighbours would prefer that those houses sit rotting forever, or do you think they appreciate someone coming in, fixing them up, and getting a family in there?
Taking trash (failure) and revamping it into success is very much so the basis of a sound economy.
taking more than your share is stealing
That's nonsense. I earn well above average because I am smarter and harder working than average. I deserve to have a nicer house, go on more vacations, and drive a nicer car than someone who has never held down a real job for more than 3 weeks at a time. I am not talking about "1% wealth" but the kind of wealth that comes from a lifetime of hard work, constant education, and a little luck.
The type of thought you display above is the type of thing that is going to turn off the majority of the population to OWS because the vast majority of people disagree with you. This is America. Come on now.
the harder you work , the richer the 1% become .. and this is what the vast majority of OWS are protesting.. they are protesting for you
If I am becoming richer at the same time, why should I care if the 1% are getting richer also? And honestly, I don't think that I make the 1% that much richer by working. I own my own business and I make more than my suppliers do.
If I'm guessing right , your're a middleman ? buy and sell ? for profit ..
So what do you think we should do to fix our current financial system?
the simple answer is to place a CAP on sales profit .. something that reflects federal interest rates .. the explanation is a little more complex .. let me try : the borrowed money that recently created the boom is mostly sitting in piles in the back rooms of corporate middlemen .. which they gained through enormous profits.. and now that there is very little borrowed money pouring into the economy .. including the government stimulus plan drying up .. the economy has recessed. Had there been a CAP on sales profits .. that money in the back rooms of corporations .. would still be in circulation .. creating jobs. It's really a correction in the mechanism , but one could also look at it as a CAP on greed .. either way .. it seems to correct the problem .. If implemented tonight .. retail prices would drop .. and we would immediately see an increase in sales .. and the rest is obvious. thanks for asking
How would the cap be enforced? Would prices be adjusted dynamically to only allow for a center profit margin? Would the government seize any profit exceeding the cap? Or would another method be used?
good question .. I think a transparency law may be required..
like this: all retailers will display their cost price , and profit will be added at the till.
I am a dentist. I see Medicaid patients 2 days per month, but other than that, yes I operate to earn a profit.
2 days per month ! .. don't let the 1% find out .. they will be envious .
Your plan does sound like a good one. And trust me, I would be the first to sign up to live in a perfect world. I think we may have to settle for something between reality and perfection though.
For me, I just want to see OWS succeed in getting the money out of politics. I am still a true believer in capitalism with regulation. Once we get the money and corruption out of Washington DC, a lot of our other problems will take care of themselves.
Investor is a pretty broad term. Anyone in the 99% that owns a home or has a 401K plan (or any savings at all) is an investor.
And if I could do anything and still make what I do now as a dentist, I would be a cart pusher at Target. I get to be outside all day, I can check out all the hot girls and cool cars, I would get my exercise, and it is a stress free job. But if people could make the same amount of money regardless of what they do, why would people want to better themselves? I am sure some would anyways but you have to realize what some people sacrifice for their jobs. I did not cash a real paycheck until I was almost 28 years old. Getting married and starting a family were delayed for my wife and myself. Many MDs don't cash one until they are into their 30s. Lawyers, engineers, researchers, etc..they all sacrifice in order to achieve their final goal, which is a goal that helps society. If you are not rewarded handsomely for your sacrifices, very few people will make those sacrifices.
Yes , but there must be a Cap on all by and sell" investments..
Why would people better themselves ..you are obviously a well read individual. And you are aware of reality. There are only so many jobs to go around .. the idea is if you want a better job you will have to compete for it through training .. and the ones who do not care to compete will accept the lesser meanial jobs .. pushing a cart .. but all jobs being necessary .. and will be paid equally.
I fully understand your investment .. and though this CAP on sales profit does not cover your concerns .. it's full intention is to "patch this system of capitalism .. whereby increasing economic productivity until a newer improved system can be installed , one where as we spoke of Equal pay" ..
I have another post written yesterday " Hypothesis: a Perfect World" .briefly outlining a new system .. using an " hour-coin world currency .. where the collective human race will print unlimited an "hour-coin for an hour work .. for all school and training included for any profession .. and basically to prevent inflation of so many coins they will expire on each purchase.. since all product will originally belong to the collective. This idea eliminates any use of tax collecting .. it's really a marvellous system .. without trying to pat myself on the back .. and it will need some fine tuning and deliberation .. thanks for your correspondence , and my apologies for mixing up two ideas ..
For some reason I cant reply to your last few posts. To answer your question though, in a pure physics sense, they both did equal work. The man did it much more efficiently than the boy though, so I would pay him more if I was in the market for a coal shoveler.
And you say "we" are starting to consider uneven pay discriminatory. I think you would find very, very few people in the 99% in America who would agree with that. Some people are very smart, skilled, and work hard. Others are lazy and unskilled. Mainstream America has no problem rewarding the former.
well I disagree with the last part .. investors are the laziest and possibly most unskilled .. and they reap the greatest rewards .. I am sure most of the 99% would agree. look at this from an opposite angle.. if I paid you to train in any profession you desire ..and than whatever profession you choose I will pay you the same wage regardless of profession. how would you feel about that?
If they didn't pay slaughterhouse workers enough, they would not be able to fill the position, or they would get completely incompetent workers. And the amount of skill required should matter too. Anyone can scrub a toilet. You could train a monkey to scrub a toilet for free. I pay my assistants about $40K but my hygienists closer to $80K. Why? Because the skills they have are different and hence worth different amounts.
it's a good argument .. but one that is unraveling at the seams...we are starting to consider uneven pay discrimatory. Civilization is moving towards Equality. Let me ask you another question: If a full grown man shovels ten tons of coal in ten hours, and a small boy shovels ten tons of coal but it takes him forty hours, Who worked harder ?
Obviously I would not want to work in a slaughter house. I don't see what that has to do with anything though. There are a ton of jobs most people would not want to do.
yes but those jobs need to be done ..and we should reward them for doing so with equal pay .. or even more pay .. since you would not do the job for equal pay .. but you expect them to do it for less.. sorry sir but you do not have a fair heart.
I work 35 hours per week. Those 2 days per month I treat Medicaid patients are 2 days more per month treating Medicaid patients than any other dentist I know. I actually loose money every time I see a Medicaid patient. My friends think I am crazy for doing it.
well let me ask you a question? if I offered you the same pay as you are making now to work 35 hrs per week in a slaughter house .. how would that sound to you?
Umm.....no. I think you need to look up the definition of stealing. And the fact that we don't have "fair share" in this country is what makes it so great. I do not wish to live somewhere where I can't fail, where I can't fall and fall hard if I make the wrong move. I've never forced anyone to pay me for my labour and I've always negotiated one on one for the price. I am definitely no pussy who needs a union or bargaining agreement to keep a roof over my head.
trust me , your kind travel in packs.
Really? That's news to me. I'm the only one I hang with that actively works near constantly to improve my life. The fact that I have a full 40 job makes me almost a red herring. Factor in night and weekend rehab and construction work coupled with Craigslist gigs, and I don't know anyone who works it like I do.
in todays economy if you are doing well you are being over paid
LMFAO....OMG I haven't heard anything that retarded in a looooong time!!!! Oh my, I think I just peed myself.
It couldn't POSSIBLY be that I know opportunity when I see it and that I have the balls to take advantage of it. No, after all, I'm just an incapable human, right?
your starting to see the picture
Sorry, I'm not incapable. I can do anything.
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Government regulation is absolutely the wrong thing to do. If there's an area of the free market that appears unbalanced, balance it out by getting creative and offering a marketable alternative. Open competition keeps a free market balanced, not the government. If you continue to ask the government to force the market to give you what you want, eventually the market will no longer be free; you'll have socialism. Be careful what you ask for from the government.
I disagree . It is in the constitution where government has a responsibility towards the welfare of its people. and if regulation is needed to maintain that welfare than its the right thing to do.
I see where you're coming from. However I disagree that the constitutional obligation of the government to regulate commerce between foreign nations and between the states includes regulating private industry. I think putting a cap on retail sales profits (or any private industrial base) goes outside the constitutional boundaries of the Federal Government.
. I was referring to a different area of the constitution .. I will have to look it up