Forum Post: ......A Promise To The American People (The Occupy Wall Street Pledge)................
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 20, 2011, 5:29 p.m. EST by puff6962
(4052)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
A PROMISE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
I, __, Promise To The Citizens Of The _ District Of The State Of _ And All
Of The People Of This State That I Will Support The 28th Amendment To Our Constitution That
Shall:
I. Ban All Corporate Donations To Political Campaigns And Election Activities,
II. Limit Personal Donations To One-Hundred Times The Amount Of The Federal Minimum Wage,
III. Require That All Lobbyist Interactions With Congress Be Recorded And Made Public Information, and
IV. Forever Ban Employees Of The Federal Government From Engaging In Lobbyist Activities Or From Being Under The Employ Of Such Firms That Do.
Signed
Date
Witness
Witness
Please Sign And Return To: Occupy Forward P.O. Box Blank Blank, Blank 555555
This is a start that is active and not just speculative, and so I am behind it. Nowhere does it say we must stop here, but it is somewhere to START to make the changes we all believe in. Time before the next election is drawing short, and if we miss the opportunity to influence that election, all our talk may remain purely speculative.
First you get the power, then you get the change.
Exactly! To think otherwise is putting the cart before the horse.
So this is the answer to Norquist?
I need to compare it with the Sanders proposal.
And I think we need to do more than simply record lobbyist activities - I think they need to be strictly limited. It is one thing for a business or an industry to provide Congress with information, and another to push for deregulation.
But yeah, generally, I like it.
Sanders' proposal cannot go forward because Sanders is a socialist. I love the guy, but there is just too much of a knee jerk response to that word.
Nixon could go to China.....so, it will take a conservative to push and idea like this.
Tom Coburn, John McCain, and Lindsey Graham should all be courted. There are some people with whom I deeply disagree who remain statesmen.
I dunno - you might be right, people might be persuaded by claims that the author of the proposal is socialist - primarily in red states I bet, but once the ball got rolling it might be hard to stop.
I'm more worried about any potential weakness in it.
I wrote this in response to another post.....but I think it sums up the strategy a little. Somebody needs to have a webpage where the document can be presented. OWS supporters must confront every primary contestant with the document every time they speak before constituents. Persistence will get news coverage and the issue will gain momentum.
Those who do not sign will then be attacked on the issue by those who have. That is the nature of a political wedge....
OWS must, during this time, mature. It must be seen as a force that is bringing very important issues to the surface. It cannot, however, be labeled as a group of radicals.
Remember, the Grandma test.
Once the document is signed, it must be sent back to a central location....Kansas City. Somewhere in the heartland. Not east or west coast.
The movement must then offer their support to candidates who are sympathetic to our ends. You may not agree with everything about the candidate, but the core issues are all that matter during this stage.
The best time to gain their loyalty, and punish their disloyalty, is during the primaries.
Candidates will come to fear Occupiers shaming them with this damn document and the issue of getting big money out will become the sine qua non of the Occupy movement.
Eventually, OWS will be known as "The Progressives" and we may field candidates of our own. But, that may be a generation away.
Why not DC?
Why not across the street from Norquists office - so we can keep an eye on that fool.
Look at this:
http://www.searchofficespace.com/usa/office-space/metro-center-dc-executive-suites.html
i'm on dial-up
it's taking forever to load.
Have they got some nice space listed?
True. Where did I say his offices were?
We're going to need some bank (money).
oh hey
On 12th Street:
ask about your first month free!
Fuck yea.
I posted a link on a DC website, but I didn't save it. I can probably find the page, but I'll bet the comment has been buried.
lets see . . .
hum
I didn't save the page either.
But I note that Facebook has an Occupy Norquist page
They list the address as follows:
Americans for Tax Reform 722 12th Street, NW Fourth Floor Washington, DC 20005
The way that item was worded requires that lobbyist communicate in written form with any Congressmen or that any verbal communications be transcribed by a court reporter and the transcript then entered into the Congressional record.
The "Written Requirement" would be a simple and effective method of killing back room deals.
I'll bet it would.
I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be a matter of public record.
But oh how they will howl.
Music, sweet music.
Hahaha!
BWA haahaaa!
yer so cruel . . . .
; D
I really like what you have done, like others, I see room (in my opinion) for improvement.
I think changing or making void, the law that allows politicians to be legally do insider trading is a must. That is very likely the path that their paybacks for favors travel.
Another thought is to have this passed around as a petition through one or more of the organizations that normally pass around political petitions on the web.
I agree with The Stock Amendment, but I do not think that it belongs on a constitutional Amendment. Congress simply needs to alter the loopholes that exclude them from the laws limiting trading on nonpublic information.
What do you think about having the final version passed around as an electronic petition that will be presented to politicians? My concern is how you/we are going to get this in the hands of a politician and have them take it seriously. If this got traction, many people might base their votes on who did or did not sign it.
The document has to be presented to the politician during the Primaries, when they are desperate for ten more votes. Once they have signed, it should be inferred that they shall obtain support from Occupy volunteers. During the primaries, these guys are also desperate for footsoldiers.
Once you have your signatures, then you begin publicizing who signed and who wouldn't.
You protest, harass, and campaign against ANY politician who will not sign the document.
It may take one or two election cycles for the whole process to solidify, but solidify it shall.
So what is the next step?
Somebody needs to have a webpage where the document can be presented. OWS supporters must confront every primary contestant with the document every time they speak before constituents. Persistence will get news coverage and the issue will gain momentum.
Those who do not sign will then be attacked on the issue by those who have. That is the nature of a political wedge....
OWS must, during this time, mature. It must be seen as a force that is bringing very important issues to the surface. It cannot, however, be labeled as a group of radicals.
Remember, the Grandma test.
Once the document is signed, it must be sent back to a central location....Kansas City. Somewhere in the heartland. Not east or west coast.
The movement must then offer their support for candidates who are sympathetic to our ends.
The best time to gain their loyalty, and punish their disloyalty, is during the primaries.
Eventually, OWS will be known as "The Progressives" and we may field candidates of our own. But, that may be a generation away.
Hopefully OWS leadership will pick up on this idea and roll with it.
OWS leadership is an oxymoron.
Is there any leadership nexus?
That's why I suggested doing something with an electronic petition first. That is a step we may be able to do without leadership.
There maybe be existing entities that would run with that ball.
But, when you say petition, you are describing a scenario in which a bunch of people sign a document and then are ignored by the politicians.
The key to politics is much the same as it is for bow hunting. You have to set up your stand at the choke points and wait. You can only shoot 50 or 60 yards, so the window to exploit the animal's vulnerability is limited.
During general elections, a disciplined group of a thousand people can be ignored.....but, during the primary, a group of one thousand motivated supporters or detractors could be fatal.
The primaries are the choke point.
The primaries are the choke point.
That is where we must apply leverage and the Pledge is the way to do that.
Organize.
Beautifully simple. Where do I sign?
its about time man you may have a great future yet if you keep this shit up , because this is what its all about like the below mentioned active no more educated guesses right on it may be one of if not the first of its kind , do you have some OWS stationary tweak it out , oh so you think i am freak huh wait until you see me at an actual event and protest , i will do my part a document such as this will for sure motivate OWS ,
I was hoping that someone a little more connected to some group of people would put this together. I am sure there are online certificate publishers where a template is used.
I am no techie and I have to hire out for anything beyond my remote.
hey man i really want to say that you are a true and epic asset to this movement and just actually viewing this in a format is one of the biggest steps this movement will ever take weather people realize it or not , OWS is like when the world began all over again what will we discover next and on and on , OWS is a living viable entity ,
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This site is a little glitchy. The "issues" tab doesn't work very well. But, this is the best site I have found that shows a summary of issues. If someone knows a better one, please share!
You can type your state in the link to see what, if any, votes or statements has made with regard to campaign reform.
This could help to hold peoples feet to the fire.
http://www.issues2000.org/states/WI_Government_Reform.htm
Our enemies do not want for us to play their game. They want us to riot, burn our own neighborhoods, occupy a church lot, or hang out in a park.
The idea that protesters will show up at rallies or hang out in front of FOX news causes them some discomfort.
The possibility that OWS would operate to push an agenda through participation in the election primary process absolutely terrifies them.
There is NO PLACE where a politician is more vulnerable than during the primary stage of an election. Every vote counts so highly and a disciplined minority can sway the entire choice of candidates.
This is the lynch pin that must be flipped.
III is not strong enough. needs to ban all lobbying. designated firms under government control and not able to accept bribes, to study and inform congress of issues they need to be apprised on.
You cannot ban ALL lobbying, you can only shrink it down to a size where you could drown it in your bathtub.....to quote from one of my favorite villians, Grover Norquist.
Sorry to say it would not work.,because the goverment is in fact officially now is corporation and they oprate like any corporation., can you go to walmart and ask the CEO to sign this pledge?
Article 5 of the Constitution:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
I like it. I wish there was evidence that politicians took any oath seriously. I think it should have penalties for signing and not living up to it. A contract, as it were, rather than a mere pledge. You know how politicians are with their promises. . .
This pledge fits into a broader strategy....please read this post and see what you think:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/puff-onthe-butterfly-effect-and-a-clear-method-for/
Read other post, and I like it, Puff. No way to fit the OWS style of government-can-fix-our-problems into the R party, and should have much more effect on the friendlier-to-your-plans D side. It's a good start, especially coupled with the pledge.
I don't agree with much of what I hear around here, but diminishing the role of K street is something Americans of all stripes can get behind, and it will move R's to follow suit to remain viable against D's with this as a central issue.
That is the key. Find initiatives that band wagon ALL Americans into at least a portion of our cause. Getting people behind this is worth a hundred thousand occupations.
This is likely the one, puff. I doubt I would agree with how you might structure the ultimate solution, but I think it makes little difference with regards to this issue. I know I'd be behind trying anything to get the say-so back into the hands of the people.
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You won't get money power out of politics until you remove the system the cherishes capital accumulation above all else.
so mission impossible?
In other words, it's all hopeless as long as people value money?
The process of capital accumulation and reproduction is the root cause - so, yeah, figure it out
okee dokee then. Let's just end capitalism and get rid of government all together. Will that make you happy?
That's where this is going - eventually - give it a decade or two. I figure that should be enough time for us to stop acting like idiots - but maybe not. A confluence of global macro-forces will smash the global economy by 2020ish. We are not going have a choice
Root cause of what?
I think I have figured it out - based on the posts by TechJunkie and the reply by Anachronism this is how it boils down:
"The process of capital accumulation and reproduction is the cause of hopelessness."
Am I correct??
So what you are saying is that I need to immediately get rid of my 96 cents in change in my pocket, is that right, because I am accumulating capital. I would also have to stop picking up pennies in the WALMART parking lot because that would add to the acculumlation and .............................................
Nope, you really can't seem to figure out any of my posts. You start every response with "So what you are saying" when, every time, it's a million miles from
It is like cutting off your arm because you have a hangnail, correct? At lease that is what I read your post to say.
Remove the system sure would solve the problem. You would not only remove the money power, but also the very government that you would need to provide for and protect your alternative choices of a way of life.
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Removal of big money from politics is the SINGLE most important thing we can do to preserve our democracy, meritocracy, and society.
Politics is all about big money. Look at the latest proposed budget bills. Politics is big money all the way through and through.
So what do you really mean.
I think that I am 100% in support of what your intent is but unless it can be made in simple English and not big broad terms - I cannot be sure.
Give me a list of five things that you would do the accomplish your goals.
(Copied and pasted from above). Somebody needs to have a webpage where the document can be presented. OWS supporters must confront every primary contestant with the document every time they speak before constituents. Persistence will get news coverage and the issue will gain momentum.
Those who do not sign will then be attacked on the issue by those who have. That is the nature of a political wedge....
OWS must, during this time, mature. It must be seen as a force that is bringing very important issues to the surface. It cannot, however, be labeled as a group of radicals.
Remember, the Grandma test.
Once the document is signed, it must be sent back to a central location....Kansas City. Somewhere in the heartland. Not east or west coast.
The movement must then offer their support to candidates who are sympathetic to our ends. You may not agree with everything about the candidate, but the core issues are all that matter during this stage.
The best time to gain their loyalty, and punish their disloyalty, is during the primaries.
Candidates will come to fear Occupiers shaming them with this damn document and the issue of getting big money out will become the sine qua non of the Occupy movement.
Eventually, OWS will be known as "The Progressives" and we may field candidates of our own. But, that may be a generation away.
I like it. I think the last two will always be hard to prove, easy to hide, perhaps another rule that states those that violate will be immediately terminated?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
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Hey puff, I was just ready to give you a little support until you posted this comment. My wife is from a German family name so you can assume where I will tell you to stuff your ideas. I do not associate with people who advocate racial and mental racism.