Forum Post: Prove you're serious...
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 4, 2011, 1:44 p.m. EST by evolve
(8)
from Washington, DC
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Stop your victimized whining! Stop feeding the beast! The power is literally in your pocket. Take out your wallet, look at your stack of credit cards. THAT is how they are taking your money. Prove you are not dependent on the banks and the loans and the lines of credit. Prove your self-sufficiency, your independence, your indignation. Prove you are not just another sheep for the shearing. Cut those fuckers where it hurts. Cut up your cards. You want Wall Street to hear your voice? You want reform? You want consumer protections? Take your money back from them. Tell them no more, not until they bend to your will. Starve them, ignore them, weaken them. Send the message: THEY are dependent on YOU.
True revolution requires sacrifices by the revolutionaries, tough, even impossible, sacrifices for the sake of future generations. In many revolutions people sacrifice their lives, but this one asks for something more difficult, more demanding. Self-discipline. Budgeting. Hard work. Scraping by. Tightening the belt. Are you worthy? Are you strong enough, angry enough? Do you have what it takes to have a fucking VOICE? Then DO it. Cut up your cards.
Cut up your credit cards and use cash, the banks even make money on the fees it charges the merchants... your local businesses will thank you.
Pay off the balance as soon as possible to stop any more fees from going into their pockets.
Fuck credit ratings: The system is so transparently rigged to incentivize YOU to give money to the banks. Burn your bridges and declare bankruptcy if you're in too deep. Know you will have extreme difficulty if you want to ever open a line of credit again, and it may even affect your hireability, but if you're serious about forcing these bloodsucking financial institutions to reform, this would be a significant kick in the nuts. Are you in despair of ever paying off those thousands? Are you ready to forsake their points and rewards and other manipulative games forever and escape the system for good? Bankruptcy might be for you.
Learn to live within your means. Use only the money you have, barter goods and services with others, go to food banks, clip coupons, do whatever you have to in order to survive.
Sell your house, your car, whatever you have to do to get out of mortgage and debt and stop the stream of charges and fees and penalties from your pockets to the banks.
Donate to and volunteer for free financial education organizations, help others learn how to pay down debt, meet expenses, and start saving.
And one last fun one that anyone can do...
Each and every time a credit card company sends you a prepaid envelope to sign up for another card, scrawl your reasons for participating in this protest on their materials and send it all back. Stuff additional paper in to increase the weight and perhaps their postal charge.
An alternative is to do your business through a credit union. Unlike big banks, they only attempt to make enough profit to ensure their own stability and quality of service (not-for-profit). They're owned by members, not shareholders, and governed democratically. In order for this movement to encompass the 99% we need solutions that people can integrate into their everyday lives- not everyone can or will live without loans and credit.
Not at all, feDup. I'm saying boycotting credit cards is one way to get Wall Street's attention and make your demands heard. I blame the credit card companies for luring people into living beyond their means with artificially and temporarily low interest rates and hidden fees.
OK, so you guys are only protesting banks?
I like it :D I'm on it!
credit card companies charge rates that used to be considered usury, but then the federal government, at the behest of the banks, allowed states to decide what was usury. then nevada decided to remove usury almost altogether, and surprise: where do all those credit card company offers come from.... nevada.
to make things even nicer, they can set almost any fee they want at the local business level, and it's been illegal for the cost to be passed directly on to the consumer. excellent!
add in rewards which encourage the customer to use credit at the expense of local businesses, and we have solid bank profit for years to come. grrr.....
you touch a very important point here. education about our excessive lifestyle is even more important than occupying a financial district in any city
BUY SILVER. This will attack the derivative scheme by JP Morgan, and put real constitutional money in the hands of the people. We dont need the private federal reserve's notes to conduct commerce amongst ourselves. You will preserve your purchasing power while the dollar continues to fall due to FED and govt policy. Crash JP Morgan, Buy Silver... search it
Exactly. Stop begging both the govt and the corps to give you jobs. Make your own - WE can make our own. Build community with like minded people. Support local small biz.
i'm not begging anybody for a job.
what i want is for our government to enact policies which help people build and support our jobs. health care, infrastructure, education.
in addition i want big businesses to stop skirting the law at our expense. cheating people out of house and home, cheating them out of pensions that were promised, cheating people by moving the jobs that we helped to create out of this country.
So are you saying that this economic problem was created entirely by people who feel the need to live beyond their means?
yes, absolutely ! evolve is right !!
Ok, so the problem was just created by consumers and not corporations/banks?
600,000,000 people, or 96% thereof, in North America and Europe living beyond their means, borrowing too much, buying imported goods at unfairly low prices, etc.......
Glad I'm in the 4% and I only make 30k a year.
similar here, but we have to admit that the system is way out of hand, the tax system is not fair, the power is distributed highly uneven, and it is time to take back our country and our destiny
no, but it was through easy money lending (aritificial low interest rates)of money that never existed. research fractional reserve lending, and about the Federal Reserve. basically, they can take your money, and loan it out, while only keeping a fraction in their hands. This is like me storing your car, letting other people drive it, and as long as you dont ask for it, I can profit. But at the same time, I tell you that your car is untouched in my garage. Its double accounting, and only because they are banks, they can do this. So that gets leveraged, that excess capital moves the markets, raising prices of homes, more people get into debt because the money is easy, and banks profit whether or not they get paid back (CDS and MBS). All of this is fraud, they dont have the capital to do any of this, yet they charge fees for doing so, inflate the bubble, then short the market when it falls. People are suckered into it because, who wouldnt want a "free" house, or take on debt when their wages are rising (although that is in an unsustainable economic environment -bubble)
Sorry, but even a child knows that you simply can't buy something when you don't have the money for it, and I mean REAL money. People FREELY CHOOSE to go into debt or take out a loan. You can't blame that on the banks no matter how good they make it look.
They never had the money either under fractional lending. The bank also chooses to take on debt from someone who is unable to pay. So who is at fault? the person giving money they dont have, or the person taking the money knowing they cant pay it? If I loaned you 10 bux, and you didnt pay me, thats on me. Now if I never had the money in the first place to give, do you even owe me anything at all? Especially when I know you cant pay, and take out insurance on your note? Then package it up with other bad loans and sell them as AAA?
banks Did get something for nothing. Our debt, and now they want to enforce that debt, even though the never had anything to give in the first place.
I don't know the truths in it, but I remember reading something along the lines that once you are reported to a collection agency, that you legally never have to pay back the debt as the collection agency has now essentially taken the bank's debt. You can request them to validate the debt through the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and they have to within 30 days. If they can't validate it, and apparently most can't because they don't have the paperwork, then you definitely don't have to pay it back. This whole idea of invisible money and buy now, pay later is why we are in the mess we are in.
yes you can default, and its legal. Im telling you, you have to look up fractional lending. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIxhsF6JLEA Im arguing that the banks never had the money to loan to you, they never took it out of anothers account to give to you. Ultimately, that loan is a ledger entry in their books. But that is as good as money ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE A BANK. Any other person or business doing this is double accounting and fraud. CDs are different since there is a time period that that you dont have the right to your money. but bank deposits are redeemable on demand, and if they loaned it out, they dont have it to give you
Banks have risen the price of housing precisely because loans exist.
Take Thoreau's word for it:
"Before we can adorn our houses with beautiful objects the walls must be stripped, and our lives must be stripped, and a beautiful housekeeping and beautiful living be laid for a foundation: now, a taste for the beautiful is most cultivated out of doors, where there is no house and no housekeeper."
The economic problem was caused by banks who TOLD us to live beyond our means. It was caused by a media who told us loans were good.
Funny, cause I've never been in debt. I'm 28, worked my whole life and paid for everything I own. Have a credit card with balance paid in full every month when I use it, and paid off my student loans within a year after graduating thanks to working at a corporation.
Funny, I've never been in debt either. I have a college degree and I worked minimum wage at a non-corporate job to pay the bills the whole time. Never had to pay off student loans I didn't have.
Funny, I've never had a credit card either. Doubt I'll ever need one. Why would I ever live beyond what I have?
My point is you can't blame corps. and banks for people getting themselves into debt. Saying, oh the banks told me I can live beyond my means is a crock. People have minds of their own. They FREELY CHOSE to go into debt.
My friend,
Corporatism is predicated on the fears of individuals. They pursue these fears with a titan's resolve. Watch some commercials and see the way advertisements use fears against the consumer. They say, "This is good!" when really it is bad.
We are lucky, my friend, because we have the education to understand the problem of getting into debt with credit cards and loans. We also have the education to get out of debt. I reiterate: WE ARE LUCKY.
Many people don't have such an education, and these are the people the corporations prey on. Yes, these people have "freely" chosen their course in life, but they were not educated about the consequences. They were not as lucky as us... so why should they be punished?
Sorry, but I knew when I was a child that if I didn't have the money I couldn't buy something. My mother also told me TV rots your brain. Taking out a loan and not expecting to pay it back without interest? That's just stupid. That does not require education. Your duty to pay back a loan should not be considered punishment. It is an obligation unless you just want to be a part of the problem.
Funny, you have just expressed all the reasons why you should consider yourself lucky. I have my heart and I have my brain, and I am lucky for that. I praise God for my gifts, and I dedicate my waking hours finding ways to give back to those that have less than me.
My friend, you were given a gift. Don't keep it for yourself. Give back.
Damn...I didn't know the majority of people had no concept of money or how it works. I guess I am lucky.
Your mockery is actually the truth. Funny how insight can hit a fool sometimes.
I'm not mocking. I just didn't know Americans were so dumb and thought money was magic.
So then we agree on the problem. We need to educate Americans on the reality of money. However, I disagree that Americans are dumb. I just don't think they've been given a fair chance.
Americans aren't taught the reality of money and the reality of debt in school, and certainly the banks have little interest in explaining it to them. Our parents did a good job for us... but why should we then rub our laurels while laughing at the disenfranchised poor?
If there is such a lack of education that citizens can't understand the value of their own currency, then I guess so. I grew up in bumblefuck and even my teachers in high school told us about credit card debt. Seeing my own parents struggle with debt is what made me not want to get into it. It's simple. Don't have the cash for something, can't buy it.
Then why did you take out student loans? You clearly didn't have the money then.
Just because you had a good upbringing, don't assume everyone else had a good one. I'm not sure why you assume the worst of regular people while elevating businessmen to a glorified level. They make their money on the faults of others. Is that good? Isn't that dumb?
I took them out because I knew I could pay them off. I wouldn't borrow with plans not to fulfill my obligation. If you call an alcoholic father and a mother who leaves you with strangers a good upbringing, then so be it. Giving out loans is a business just like working at Burger King. People seem to forget that nothing is free.
Being that it is a business, don't you see that it is then in the interest of businesses for people to not be able to pay back their loans? A good businessman WOULD give out a loan to someone who couldn't pay it back.
You have trouble seeing these issues beyond your own personal experience. Your eyes are hidden behind the mask of solipsism. I don't mean to push you, but you need to view the world as something that occurs beyond you.
Well America has long been based on capitalism. Yes, it may be wrong for a bank to give out a loan to someone they know can't pay it back. They shouldn't be allowed to. If the person requesting it knows they can't pay it back, then they are equally as wrong as the bank. To me, it's no different than a crack dealer selling chunks of soap or chalk to a crackhead. Both are equally at fault.
gadflydigital and feDup, I just want to say you are both awesome people in your own way and thank you for your very stimulating exchange. feDup, it sounds like the system as it is works for you... isn't there any change you'd like to see though? What are you "fedup" with?
The government. There is far more government corruption than white-collar. If you people really think the government is going to do ANYTHING based on your protests, you are in for a long haul. The government has systemically deregulated environmental protections for corporate greed and plundering because these corporations fund them. They have systemically taken our Constitutional rights away through use of fear and friendly terms like the Patriot Act. I live in PA and nearly all of our STATE FORESTS have been leased to gas drilling companies for the raping. Our own governor received over a million dollars in funding from corporations and has appointed others in his cabinet who have given him significant funding. People have been protesting this and nothing has been done. My point is that you guys are protesting small fries. YOU CAN NOT RELY ON THE GOVERNMENT TO FIX ANYTHING when it is even more corrupt than Wall Street. This country needs a real revolution and you will not get it with peaceful protest.
A perfect example of the incoherence of anti-government thought: "Keep your government hands off of my environmental protections!" "Keep your government hands away from my constitutional rights!" "Keep your government hands off of my Medicaid!"
We support the government as the greatest check on the power of the market there is. We do not want your "real revolution" that will only leave us more at the mercy of unchecked market forces. And we do not want your violent uprising.
We are the reality-based community. We want real solutions to real problems. End the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Re-regulate the markets. Prosecute white-collar crime. These are our demands and they will be realized.
What you seem to not realize is that I am talking about our current government and what it has become. I am not anti-government or anarchist. I believe in TRUE DEMOCRACY and what our founding fathers set forth. That is not the state our government is currently in. You can believe otherwise and your demands will not be realized.
Oh, I agree. I mean about government corruption, not about your "real revolution." (I hear the Tea Party likes guns... have you tried there?) If we weaken the corporations, we weaken their hold on our government. And we weaken the corporations by finding ways out of their games. We shop local, we reduce our energy consumption, we bike to work. We research before we vote. We live debt-free, we grow vegetables in our windowsills. We cut down on our obsession with technology and entertainment. We support the local library. We volunteer in arts and recreation programs for underprivileged children. We live simply and with awareness. This is the revolution I want. Education of the public takes a long time, but it is still possible. People are starting to listen.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thank you for your well-articulated post. Credit Card purchases do in fact hurt small businesses, and do in fact no actual good for the consumer.
Of course if you're considering debt over starvation, which will you choose?