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Forum Post: POLL: Is the United States Constitution still a valid document?

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 9, 2011, 3:02 p.m. EST by Travis510 (0) from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

A] Yes - The Constitution of the United States is a sound document and political blueprint

B] The United States Constitution is a decent framework, but should be amended via a Constitutional Convention (Please provide examples of new fundamental laws or changes to fundamental laws, but please keep your explanations pithy)

C] No - The United States Constitution is outdated. America should implement an entirely new legal and political framework (Please explain what form/framework of government you believe should replace the United States Constitution, and remember to keep your answers pithy)

85 Comments

85 Comments


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[-] 2 points by FuzzyThinker (112) from Jacksonville, FL 12 years ago

A- YES. B- NO. We need 3 Amendments. Do Not Open a Can of Worms via CC. They can be found here: http://www.petitiononline.com/99declar/petition.html C- NO. If we struggle for consensus on a budget- imagine agreeing on new framework. Work on the backlog of specific unresolved issues:
http://fuzzythinker.WebStarts.com/ows-_fighting_points.html
Here are other places to Post your Issues:
http://www.occupyr.com/Demands/

[-] 2 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago

A. It needs to be re-applied. Constitutional rule needs to be restored. It doesn't matter what kind of constitution or laws we have if there are power centers that can simply ignore them. It's a matter of power. Too great concentrations of economic wealth produces anti-democratic power centers. The problem is not the constitution, it's these economic power centers.

[-] 2 points by CountryGirl (73) 12 years ago

Mostly A.] except repeal the electoral collage.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

B. The war powers act, NATO and CIA drone operations circumvents the Congress' ability to declare war. so does having economic interests, besides trade, in other Countries.

People already beat the bastardization of Amendment 14 to death, so i'll pass an taking a shot.

Repeal of the patriot act would go a long way to relieving some of the lost rights we have been witnessing, also do something with FISA courts,asif

we all need to pay taxes to ensure that we pay for the media, making it a real fourth estate.

The common welfare should govern health, deffence, and prosperity

[-] 2 points by OQPi (162) 12 years ago

Yes.

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 12 years ago

The real question is whether a representative form of government can properly carry out its responsibility for the people as defined by the constitution.

With proper amendments, probably so. But such amendments must be implemented by the very same people who abuse legislative power.

[-] 2 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 12 years ago

c} No- North Dakota has fewer people than my neighborhood does but gets two Senators. The Constitution has permitted terible things to happen and is what it is, not what some say it is.

http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/why-i-dont-endorse-the-us-constitution/

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 12 years ago

please get real - i'm sorry to insult some people -
but I think the Forum should be divided into
a wish - pipe dream - ideal world philosophy list
and
a real idea list that is accomplishabe

For example, in my ideal world, I'd vote for Elizabeth Warren for Prez
But I know the crap that any R would put on the supreme court so I vote for O

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Don't you think its time to evolve? Lets broaden our paradigm. I vote you for President, how do you like that?

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 12 years ago

who do i send the money to?
you or i might evolve but, sadly, America proved it is not ready -
by electing and reelecting RMN RR GWB

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Everything depends on who you think you are, and what you are trying to do.

[-] 2 points by Oneofmany (85) 12 years ago

B.

Revoke corporate personhood.

Eliminate lobbying by corporations, trade guilds, unions and special interest.

[-] 1 points by julianzs (147) 12 years ago

Here are my 6 comments:

  1. All men & women are equal
  2. Proportionate representation for election to Congress
  3. Establish rights to health, education, & clean environment
  4. Elect president by direct vote
  5. Limit term in Supreme Court
  6. Government funded elections
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 12 years ago

B)

It needs serious cleaning. But we need access to comment on needed change/cleaning.

Activism works. 99% lets get active.

Create sign and send petitions. The more inputs we have the better. http://occupywallst.org/forum/create-sign-and-send-petitions/

A site to submit issues have them collected, collated and submitted. www.lobbydemocracy.com

Contact the White house: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Contact the senate: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Contact Congress: http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

Contact the house of representatives: http://www.house.gov/htbin/findrep?ZIP=55433

Contact the Supreme Court: http://www.supremecourt.gov/

OUR BANNER/OUR CAUSE

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. July 4, 1776

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

(C) No - I think we can do better. The founding fathers would agree. We have new concepts new ideas and new frontiers now than were ever thought possible.

"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" - Samuel Adams

[-] 1 points by entrepreneur (69) 12 years ago

[B] Eliminate the powers granted to FED to manage nations wealth through this constitution. Only state run and state owned company should be managing money minting and printing business and distribution business. Money should be valued in GOLD or similar equivalent and not in paper value.

[-] 1 points by sassafrass (197) 12 years ago

All calls for Constitutional Convention or "an entirely new framework" are HIGHLY SUSPECT. A few well-intentioned and easily-led people might be sincerely viewing this as a viable option for change, but I believe it's being pushed by a small sector with an infiltrating agenda. The right wing (who dominate Congress now but won't after November 2012) have been wanting a Con-Con for years, as either a chance to do the "balanced budget" (read: cutting funding to programs) thing or to take us back to the Gilded Age or worse. Even within their ranks, they have been bickering a lot about the safety of opening up the Constitution to "bad elements"--- which is a valid concern no matter what your views are, since there are always opposing forces. Search "constitutional convention" online, browse old forums elsewhere, you'll see that much of these debates have been going on since approx. 2010, where they talk about how badly we supposedly "need it" to "take back the country" but how risky it would be. I believe they may have since figured out that it's too risky for them to try to do it through the state legislatures (especially next year when they will not have majorities) so they need to recruit "the people" to crack the safe for them, bottom-up fashion. And of course, they want to try and control who "the people" are. I also believe they are now more willing to gamble on opening Pandora's Box because their other option, if the results of the Con-Con were to not go their way, is to use the states' refusal to ratify as a uniting cause to push for secession. We all know how that went about 150 years ago. Sooooooo..... be very afraid.

[-] 1 points by frontierteg (137) from Kalamazoo Township, MI 12 years ago

B. Without it, we would not be having this conversation.

[-] 1 points by brendanpens (3) from North East, MD 12 years ago

A & B.

The Constitution IS a sound document and political blueprint, but amendments should be made to account for the advancements we've made and the knowledge we've gained over the past two centuries.

[-] 1 points by HitGirl (2263) 12 years ago

Sure. It just needs a few amendments like leaving all banking to state owned banks and a large We the Peoples Bank. Money is, after all, made by the gov. It is part of the commons. The banks would be non-profit with interest going towards tax relief and infrastructure programs. Why not tap the largest source of money for We the People. Let's END the Wall Street Casinos!

[-] 1 points by JenLynn (692) 12 years ago

A. It gives us the power, we just get lazy about researching the issues and exercising that power.

[-] 1 points by prosemitic (63) 12 years ago

basically no. Aipac already made sure of that.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

What's the vote count so Far?

[-] 1 points by Fedup10 (228) 12 years ago

A yes

[-] 1 points by tesn1 (212) 12 years ago

A) YES

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Obedience is not creation, and thus can never produce salvation.

[-] 0 points by tesn1 (212) 12 years ago

The constitution was and is our Nations Salvation. It is about Freedom not obedience

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

What you know is what appears as your reality and you will soon find that words are the least reliable purveyor of truth. Freedom stands on its own and needs no defined constitution. You need not defend it because it is already yours.

[-] 1 points by powertothepeople (1264) 12 years ago

A & B

but I have no concrete ideas to offer at this time for amendments. Just the idea that we have the ability to amend makes it a great framework for our country.

[-] 1 points by invient (360) 12 years ago

B - FDR second bill of rights, thats about it for now.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

(C) No - Times have changed we the people must rewrite and agree upon a new Constitution. One that serves the interest of all the worlds people.

The first thing we need to do is realize and declare the world's resources as being the common heritage of all people and the second is to replace money-based nationalistic economies with a resource-based world economy.

[-] 2 points by rayl (1007) 12 years ago

would be wonderful but the resistance to a rbe would be tremendous to say the least

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

yes breaking the heard is a challenge

[-] 2 points by rayl (1007) 12 years ago

pure communism is also a beautiful idea but humanity is just not ready for it.

(i'm not talking about authoritarianism or stalinism)

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

The human race has no chance to lift itself from its own lowest thoughts until we each lift ourselves to our own highest ideas.

[-] 2 points by rayl (1007) 12 years ago

well said, is that your own?

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Its from the book conversations with god (Neale Donald Walsch) Very fascinating and insightful.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 12 years ago

perhaps a rbe zone to see how people would react to that type of lifestyle

[-] 1 points by sassafrass (197) 12 years ago

You must have a lot of gold.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Gold is old here is something far more valuable - Imagination

[-] 1 points by sassafrass (197) 12 years ago

Right.... for those who don't have the gold.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

I had a dream about gold bars last night falling from the sky and they were hitting people in the head. Strange dream I wonder what it means?

[-] 1 points by sassafrass (197) 12 years ago

People who advocate others giving up money either already have a lot of it themselves or have none. Of the ones who have none, some will genuinely try to be cooperative and collaborative in a "resource based economy". Others will try to get some, usually from the ones trying to be genuinely cooperative. So, it would be a tough sell for most people who aren't already rich.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

I understand your reasoning and you make perfect sense. What we know is what appears as our reality. To go from now thinking to here doing does take time. We can continue to plant seeds of new concepts that can take root by our collective conciseness and create a new dream.

[-] 1 points by sassafrass (197) 12 years ago

Thank you for seeing my point and disagreeing in a courteous manner.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

My compliments to you on your peace of mind. When you have nothing to fear, you have nothing over which to be angry.

[-] 1 points by tesn1 (212) 12 years ago

A muslim believe he must kill and infidel or someone who converts from islam. How can you CoExist with people whe they believe in killing you.

As for a global constitution it can and will never work. Power and Religion breed conflict and war. No constitution will change mankind.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

There is enough for me there is enough for you there is enough for everybody.

[-] 0 points by tesn1 (212) 12 years ago

NO, some will always want more and some will just take more and others will just give and give. Whether giving is done by the gun or by choice there can never be Balance.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

All human actions are motivated at their deepest level by one of the two emotions - Fear or Love. Which do you choose?

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 12 years ago

Will I still be able to use my Canadian dollars to buy stuff in US?

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

No, however they are redeemable for Terra Credits.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 12 years ago

Terra Credits will sort of be like tokens you get at an arcade center?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

i always thought the employer should start his employee out at the most he would ever make at that level of expertise then if the employee slacks off and does not get to work in time, he gets demoted pay.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Sort of, and accepted widely because we the people agree so.

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 12 years ago

So, if you suddenly change your mind I am left with worthless Terra Credits? That doesn't sound promising to attract foreign investments.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

No more investment schemes here, the profit motive is gone and now replaced with the creative incentive. Your investment would be your inspired contribution to a system that benefits the whole.

[-] 0 points by NachoCheese (268) 12 years ago

"your inspired contribution to a system that benefits the whole"

lol

You seriously think you're going to persuade people to chug the kool-aid and live in Smurf village?

smh

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Seriously thinking has cost us our economy. I couldn't persuade you of anything you already do not possess.

[-] 0 points by NachoCheese (268) 12 years ago

"Seriously thinking has cost us our economy."

No. Corrupted government interference and government regulators inbreeding with those they are supposed to regulate cost us our economy.

"I couldn't persuade you of anything you already do not possess."

lol wut?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by jayp74 (195) 12 years ago

Both A & B.

A) The founding fathers were brilliant. The constitution has stood for over 200 years and there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it.

And yes (B), it should be amended to add a balanced budget and term limits for every representative and senator.

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

A) and B)

As far as B) goes I would insert specific amendments nullifying corporate personhood (including nullification of any and all rights granted under the current constitution and the Bill of Rights), explicitly affirming the penumbra right to privacy, mandating publicly financed elections, and explicitly granting the government the right to provide services (including health services) through a publicly owned and managed company as long as it received no special breaks, and possibly putting an end to the "two man per state" rule in the Senate.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 12 years ago

Adding a balance budget amendment would eliminate the emergency of war where high deficits are needed. Take a history Lesson. WWII 1941-1945 the highest deficits ever seen. So we all should be careful about what we wish for......The Constitution is a document that has been very good to America, but not the enemies of America both internal and external. I say a resounding "A" with a caution to the Enemies of the Constitution (Tea Party Republicans) "Don't Thread on Me" is a true phrase and should not be co-opted by those who wish to subvert the Constitution.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

I don't support term limits

I prefer an experienced government

I believe it is important to keep all civil liberty amendments of the constitution

guarantied freedoms

the writ of Habius corpus

innocent until proven guilty

they laws that protect minor opinion and practice

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 12 years ago

Better hope it is, otherwise all of our laws would go right out the window including prohibitions against murder, theft, violence, or other crimes against people.

[-] 0 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

A constitution doesn't stop people from committing murder, theft or violence. It's the thoughts in their head.

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 12 years ago

No but the Constitution is the validity for laws. Invalidating the Constitution would invalidate the laws. And yes breaking the law is a deterrent. If there was no punishment there would be much more violence.

[-] 0 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Hmm, I have never read the constitution so have no way of knowing what laws to obey. Do I murder and steal - No. Do I cheat and lie - No. The only law that need be obeyed are: Thou shall not cheat, steal or harm other humans. We must begin living in harmony with each other.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

In response to JImboiam's rant down below, I live by your three laws religiously, except I'm not ashamed to retaliate in ways that are in direct contradiction to do not lie, cheat and steal and in contradiction to the constitution when I feel violated. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Be as bad or good as you like, your the captain of your ship not some constitution.

[-] 1 points by Jimboiam (812) 12 years ago

So you are saying that people should be allowed to be bad if they want to?

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

when i was a child i was a bad ass, but as i grew up i realized my bad ass self was losing friends and respect of my community, no one had to lay a bible or a constitution in front of my eyes for me to learn that. we act off of the stimulus we receive. Nothing teaches respect more than trial and error. Telling me I can't, Is the sure way to get me to do.

[-] 1 points by Jimboiam (812) 12 years ago

You grew up but you are naive that all people think that way. The majority don't. You are supposing that people have some knowledge of right or wrong. That is not the same. Take me for example. If it wasn't against the law, i would go out and find every single rapist in my community and drop them in the sea tied to a piece of concrete block. I would have no compunction against it. Do you really think that is a good idea for people to be vigilantees? The only reason i don't is i value my life not being in prison.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

gods and cogs separates me from you. It sucks not having basic self control, besides you are just talking out your back side. Jail don't stop you from vigilantism, the thought of losing your life keeps you in check. unless life has not taught you the old tv adage, criminals always get caught, is just a myth.

[-] 1 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

No one is every going to stop what your thinking. If your thinking bad or good thoughts they will soon find a way to materialize. Should you be punished for this? No - one must be re-educated and taught true core values of love, creativity and compassion within their hearts and minds.

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 12 years ago

The Constitution are not laws. It is the foundation of our laws. And ignorance of the law is no excuse ever hear that? i am just saying that an absence of laws is a dangerous thing. I have read posts on other forums that people would like to hurt OWS supporters in a big way. With no laws, i don't think there would be anything stopping them. Same goes with a bunch of fanatics who hate Tea Partiers. I have seen more commentary about executing Tea Partiers or shooting them in the face than i can imagine. Careful what you wish for, there is no Utopia.

[-] 0 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

I see, yes in a world of hooligans we may need certain remedies. Must we call them laws? No lets call them re-educational rights that help people not hinder them.

[-] 1 points by Jimboiam (812) 12 years ago

So what will you do when people don't agree with that, and decide to come in the middle of the night and kill all of the people in the park and take their belongings? You have no way to do anything to them, nor any rights to take actions do you?

[-] 0 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

Are those thoughts in your head? they are not in mine. I see people coming into the park celebrating their freedoms. If someone of that mind set you speak of comes into the park they will not find a place as they will not be mentally welcome. Lets be constructive not destructive.

[-] 1 points by Jimboiam (812) 12 years ago

I am trying to get you to understand that not everyone in the country thinks like it. There are racists, and murders, and rapists, and thieves and without laws, those people will run loose, and victimize the people like you who think its all peace and love and pressing wildflowers. There is a place for laws in civilized society to protect us from each other. What it has become is enriching the corrupt government.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

wow, you need to lay off the television for a while. Put the remote down and step away from your arm chair. It must suck having money and fear all the time. I bet you posterity will prove threough a correlational study that more money breads more fear. or as BIggy said, more money mo' problems

[-] 1 points by Jimboiam (812) 12 years ago

Funny how you make so many assertions. I watch news and educational shows. I am out all the time either working or doing something. I have also met 10s of 1000s of people in my lifetime, and i deal with all sorts of people from the poor to the rich, criminals and not. Everyone is different. There is no Utopia. I am not afraid of anything. I am trying to get you people to realize that your head is in the clouds and life is just not all rosy as you seem to think it is. If you can't address reality you can't solve problems.

[-] 0 points by CoExist (178) 12 years ago

I send you a smile and a hug because we are brothers :- ) Let us not worry of others ill gotten deeds but create our own good ones. We can agree to disagree as we are friends. We are here to make a change and each one of use can add something.