Forum Post: Please Join Me For A Discussion Of Our Future
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 16, 2012, 3:54 a.m. EST by GypsyKing
(8708)
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Friends,
Please join me for a discussion of our future that goes as deep as we can go.
I would like to ask all of you who have approached Occupy with honest intentions, to join me when you are able, in introspecting as deeply as possible - to seek the solutions that are within us - in the recognition that the "issues" are a mere symptom of the real problems, which lies within ourselves.
Mankind now creates it's own reality, and this reality we create is a reflection of our inner being, and so the question then is, how has this reflection become so terribly distorted ?
- A free discussion. with no agenda other then the persuit of truth, and hopefully a chance to rediscover and renew ourselves in the process of open dialogue.
This isn't new-age bullshit, this is the real thing, a chance for an honest, unpretentious, communion regarding what is wrong and what we can do to change it - an attempt to understand the problems at their root level, that prevent us from having the world we would like to see.
Thank you for your consideration, and for all of your efforts toward a better world.
GypsyKing
gypsyking1.wordpress.com
GK, first let me say that I applaud your efforts in requesting this dialogue.
For me personally, after a fairly deep consideration of the underlying cause of our socio-economic crisis (and this is but one of many in our history), I have come to the conclusion that money itself is the source. Money is severely antiquated, deeply flawed in its basic design, and is being preserved by the power-elite because it is so easily manipulated to their advantage. I go over this in detail on my own blog Money No More.
I fully realize that most people dismiss my views on this subject as wildly idealistic. The power of the current money system in the hands of the worldwide power-elite is indeed beyond enormous. My view on this is that an idea can be even more powerful. Nothing, in fact, is more dangerous to the status quo than an idea whos time has come. People used the horse for thousands of years. Then the automobile came along. The rest, as they say, is history. The planet was transformed (for both good and bad) by that one idea. The same can be said about Edison's electric light.
The power-elite fear new ideas that hold potential to shake up their beloved kingdoms. We need to ignore them and push forward. The planet is in jeopardy. If we are not successful in doing what we know needs to be done, it could be the whole show. We are engaged in very serious discussions here, and people need to take it more seriously than they usually do with stupid "recreational comments" and frivolous bullshit that serves no useful purpose.
Thanks for trying to open up this dialogue.
My two cents.
Worth a lot more than two cents!
Please visit my blog. What I am trying to do in my "humble" way, is to reinvigorate the idea of "Cosmos". That is, the belief that we need to re-create a Coherent World-View. The truth is out there and it has to do with synthisis. This effort to arrive at synthisis is simply not being made anymore, anywhere! Amazing, when you think about it.
With all our power today, all we do is specialize. We know more and more about less and less. There is no entity out there trying to come to synthisis, to create a coherent word-view, to re-establish Cosmos!
Perhaps together we can look at the failing of our society in this regard, and understand the great interest on the part of the powers that be, in preventing us from synthicising the vast amount of knowledge into a clear world view that will enable life to endure on this panet, and not simply meet the needs of the ultra-privileged.
I hope to see you there.
GK
Thanks. I did go to your blog briefly and invite you to mine as well. Are you trying to move your discussions away from this forum to your blog? If so, is there a reason for that other than to avoid a lot of stupid/wasteful comments that clutter up discussions here? I can certainly understand that if your goal is to keep your blog "clean" by the power of your own editing capability. I too created my own Money No More blog for that purpose, although it has failed to generate much dialogue.
Yes, that is my essential intent, to have my own editing control. My association with this site was interrupted first by relentless harassment from Tr@shy and Iron Butt, and their minions; then by relentless attacks on my computer. That is why I no longer post here, and decided to host my own blog.
Oh, and I will definately look into Money No More.
I have no gripe with OWS, or this forum. There is a point to all this, and in many ways this forum does a good job - it just didn't work for me, and so I have decided that what I want to do would be better accomplished on my own blog.
Ok thanks. I thought that might be the case. I'll drop by when I can and put in my "humble" thoughts. I invite you to do the same. Always enjoyed your input here.
Likewise, absolutely.
Just left you a comment on your blog.
The reason must be all the damned trolls on this site. We're infected with trolls here. the feds must be spending quite a bit on paid trolls
I agree. I think further a world with no money is a natural evolutionary inevitability.
Whether we see it in our lifetimes remains to be seen. But I believe it will come, and will benefit the 99% when it does.
Peace
Hey GK - good to see you stop by the forum. I like the conversation that you introduced on your blog - and will comment there from time to time when I have something to add. Good to see others are starting to drop by.
What can I say, "I am poor, even in thanks."
But thank you for all you have contributed, just the same
Well thank you for the compliment - I now find myself with the time I did not have when I was still working - and a great forum to advocate for a better world. Please accept my thanks for your contributions to the effort as well.
I have been discussing this since I first came here in Mar. the problem we face is an old one those that defend inherited power and those that want equal opportunity.
The right has created a mindset that money is freedom, the way to win is to shatter the mindset.
Telling the truth always is important from a “spiritual” point of view too, though the useful lie is very tempting, that’s why the Ds and the Rs do so much of it.
Thank you, I essentially no longer contribute here, but I would like to thank you for your interest, and hope to see you on my blog:)
How've you been GK?
Good to see you around again. At least the usual suspects have left you alone...........so far.
Good. Good to hear from you. Yes, somebody made it their pet project to attack my computer, as well as harrass me relentlessly while here, so I decided to create my own blog. At least I can control the harassment part of the problem there, by controling the content.
While I'm here I have to say that OWS has been very important. It has shifted the whole political debate in America, and they will never shift it back. The changes we seek will now (finally) gradually take place, and it is because of all those in NY, and elsewhere, who had the guts to join this movement!
Hat's off to you, anachists and ALL!!!
Please drop by my site when you can, shooz, and I'll try to pop in occasionally before my presence is dicovered by the evil ones.
It's good to see you back GK. This is only the beginning. The cat has gotten out of the bag, and he will not go back in. With perseverance, we will eventually awaken the majority of the people in this country.
Here in AK, where I am visiting family, and taking care of my my granddaughter for the next seven weeks.... dollar bills are showing up from Anchorage to Palmer, and Wasilla (Sarah's hometown) with "Not To Be Used For Bribing Politicians...Amend the Constitution" stamped on them. Little hybrid OWS/...? flyers on bright green, and orange paper are also being found in coffee shops all over the place. What a coincidence this should coincide with my arrival here, eh? ;-)
~Odin~
Great to hear from you again, Odin!!!
I'm smiling at the thought of those dollars!
Me too...;-) that is! One of you radical former Burlingtonites was the one who stamped my first dollar, and then gave me the stamp (with a $10 donation). Perhaps you know him, Ben Cohen, founder of Ben and Jerrys. It was great to finally meet and talk with him at Union Square last month, after knowing all the years that he was so supportive of different 'people' causes in Vermont.
~Odin~
I wish I had met Ben Cohen, he's been doing great work!
Keep in touch, especially on my blog, if you will, Odin. I have been impressed by the growth in your thinking during this whole conversation on this forum, and I think because of people like you we have real hope for transforming the global situation through the growth of us as individuals.
Thanks. It's much preferable to grow in your thinking, than in your waistline. ;-)
~Odin~
Unfortunately, it's a lot easier to grow your waistline. LOL
What single factor ties all of the problems that we now face together, and makes them a single issue that can be simply addressed?
Please, think about it, and then see my blog for the "answer."
I'll look at your blog later but just scrawl some thoughts now... Our human Needs. Henry Thoreaux defined this as 'To stay warm'. So accepting the fact that the sun will stay with us that is food, water, shelter...unless one lives in the tropics. This is in my mind a simple truth for all and ties us all. If we neglect another human they starve...we are tied through this. Of course there is more we want and probably at a sliding scale of true value...love,creativity and a healthy diet being high...flatscreen tv maybe lower. This may be solved...albeit maybe not through the current system. Ghandhi “There is enough in the world for everyone's need, but not enough for everyone's greed.” So it is an apportionment issue. The reason I believe this may be valid...because without toil for food and shelter....suppression is more difficult. Keeping persons in poverty enables our western existence. Berger.."Capitalism survives by forcing the majority, whom it exploits, to define their own interests as narrowly as possible. This was once achieved by extensive deprivation. Today in the developed countries it is being achieved by imposing a false standard of what is and what is not desirable". Society has deceived us into a poverty state of being, it seems to me. At Occupy persons were for a moment freed to unleash that creativity...which could solve that human need on mass...and probably a bunch of those wants too.
Well, it's back to the tr@shy circus for me here again, so I'm out of here, again . . .
Big waste of time.
Please visit my blog:)
GK...I have found myself here, much as I found myself on an Occupy Camp in Europe over a year ago. I am less than an avid computer user having spent much of my last 8 years in rural Costa Rica, although once was a banker. I have been fortunate to travel some and spent lengths of time with various indigenous groups. I am not a protestor...but observed the organic nature of the Occupy movement and so camped. Having lived and worked in many small communities, I have been able to spot some failings that are difficult to identify in a modern crazed existence. (Can't see the wood for the trees syndrome) I saw the same at Occupy camps. Underdog and GK I much appreciate finding your words here this evening.
Although once I felt money to be a major societal problem, I have since observed a more encompassing force which money just portrays one part. Ownership. Maybe more accurately, perceived ownership. It rears it head and causes much destruction where ever I have been. Money seems a tool for teaching it. When I speak of ownership I do not refer to whether someone has a title to a car or house or not...it is rather how the person views that object. The action of the person shows their degree of ownership by their ability share...or not as the case may be. This is not to say they are negligent of the object...part of the root word for possession is to take responsibility for...I don't think this is what Bush and Thatcher meant when they referred to Ownership Society. I can talk much on this subject...I have never been much a writer but have wished for contact to hone some thoughts...if you have interest.
I am happiest as a doer...pontification and procrastination are my enemy...however my youthful impatience has given way to an gratitude of acceptance of when the Time that has come. I have been in a dull state since Occupy. In the past I have had spurts of activity and actions...and have worked on some ideas as to actions ( that rely not on political discourse) but may be involved in a brighter future. I think we all do...but I am grateful when I find seekers Billy
If you want to get money out of politics, www.campaignfinanceamendment.org has a formula to do it. It grandfathers the present representatives (giving them an advantage and freeing them from dependence on contributions) so the future representatives can't accept contributions.
Where would you like to start?
Sounds useful, & interesting. Good luck with the blog.
I think you hit it on the head when you said the change is in each of us, not us as a whole. My coffee cup here says "Be the change you wish to see".
I think that as we all reflect at the end of the year, there is going to be a lot "I wish I would have" or "Why didnt I do this" etc etc.
Found an article the other day that said to list the 5 things you learned this year, and in regards to Occupy it would be "What 5 things did you learn about organizing".... And then the article states that if you cant list five, that you are moving too slow, not experimenting enough. I thought that was some solid stuff.
Wow, thanks for that comment.
One reason I'm trying to move more to my own blog now is that this forum seems to stir up disputation. These's nothing wrong with that, but I find that I want to try to go deeper, and when I'm here I find myself getting caught up in the fray, and sometimes saying things to people I have later regretted. I think I've said half of them to you, so I hope you'll chalk it up to my tendency to be impassioned, and at times stupid and hypocritical, and not take it personally.
I'm trying to disengage here and work more on my blog, where I can control the tone, and hopefully keep it more civil.
No worries man, politics is some ugly stuff sometimes....and yes we all fly off the handle sometimes. I wish I saw more of that in DC.
I'll take someone who oversteps boundaries any day over someone who is afraid to.
"Mankind now creates it's own reality, and this reality we create is a reflection of our inner being, and so the question then is, how has this reflection become so terribly distorted ?"
This question answers itself if you think about it. And you answered it in the sentence previous to asking it. "The problem lies within ourselves". The reflection is NOT distorted-it is ACCURATE.
You seem to not see what I am driving at, although it doesn't really seem that difficult to understand. Our spirirts have become distorted through pitting ourseves against one another. We have accepted that the "ethic" of the Darwinian strugle is the highest ethic we can attain, that competition and it's inherent brutality and conflict should be the basis for human society, and we pass this distortion on to the reality that surrounds us.
Comprende?
We have codified and legitimized survival of fittest as our highest value, the animal instinct of I eat you, is monetarized.
The winner take all game of life or monopoly is played for real by the 1 percent, and they think the less rules the better.
Everything is a battle for survival, and those who are not economically viable have themself to blame, is the ethic of the business.
Except for those who don't wish to keep playing the "game." by the rules of the winners.
Thanks for putting this clearly GK
We should be more concerned with nurturing our spirits, not just our accounts. Good way of putting it.
Thanks, I really appreciate that! The shrapnel is starting to fly here again, and so I must burrow a little deeper in my little slit trench until the barrage passes on. I have a case of shell shock.
Please visit me on my blog, although I won't have anything new for a few days:)
BR is pretty well stuck in her ways. Thinks people haven't augmented climate change, or that if we don't know by how much exactly, it is something to not bother worrying over. Your positions always seem the most straight forward and sincere.
I looked briefly at your blog. Thanks. I shall revisit it as It may be more productive than here, the magnate of drama.
I comprehend...do you?
You stated the answer and then asked the question.
You also seem to make a lot of assumptions without any evidence to back them up. What makes you think ALL people have distorted spirits? Or that all people's distortions result from pitting ourselves against one another? What evidence do you have that "we"-as in all of us-have "accepted that the ethic of the Darwinian struggle is the highest ethic we can attain"? Or that any or most of us believe that "it's inherent brutality and conflict should be the basis for human society"?
What makes you think that YOU see the same thing when you look at "my" reality (reflection) that I do? For someone who is all about denying one's "ego", it is the height of egotistical to believe that not only is YOUR world view shared by everyone else, but that it is the "correct" worldview in the first place.
Oh, here we go again . . . I recognise this disputacious, pedantic, sophistry. You want to engage in a battle of semantic nit-picking, while consciously evading common sense, and all that . . well, I just don't have time for it . . sorry. I don't need you to be unable to see the forest for the trees. You probably learned that trick in Dunsinane, didn't you, you little devil.
My lord. You don't really want to engage in "honest, open, unpretentious" conversation at all do you? You just want to engage in back-patting with other like minded individuals under the banner of being humbly introspective. (Oh the irony)
YOU "consciously evaded" all of my questions. And made a straw man you could smack around in such an erudite fashion. So much for your ability to look within yourself for any problems before inventing assumptive "sins" to attack within others. You'll never actually "see" the trees because you're too busy pretending we're all part of your imaginary forest.
And what the hell does a hill in Scotland have to do with ANYTHING?
Dunsinane . . . ? A little thing that Shakeaspeare smacked around in an "erudite fashion," called MacBeth.
As I have said a number of times, we already have plenty of reductionist thinking, but no one in our society appears to be doing what is necessary for reductionist thinkingt to have any value, and that is synthisis; and so it seems we must do so for ourselves.
It is in the great interest of the few that we do not do this, and that is why it isn't being done.
As for your "My Lord," and all this crap, that's just a transparent attempt to frame me in a particular manner, so that I can then de dismissed. Whatever . . . it isn't about me, so I don't really care.
Wasn't it you who were always on here about ad hominem, you old hypocrite?
What specific TYPE of reductionism are you referring to? What type of synthesis?
We must ALL do for ourselves what we feel we must. You just think we ALL "must" think and act in a manner that YOU agree with. Why is it that you assume the moral authority and discernment to know what is best for "everyone" without ANY evidence to back up your superiority or qualifications for such a position? EGO?
I used the phrase "My lord" as an expression of frustration. Your paranoia about everyone else's "motives" or why things "aren't being done" will cause you to be dismissed long before any imaginary attempts to "frame" you in some way.
But keep avoiding my sincere and honest questions at all costs with these ad hominem attacks you are so far above. I actually had hoped to engage in a deep conversation with someone who declared themselves capable of doing so. My bad.
Get out! You haven't even denied that you are actually Tr@shy (as per my challenge on another thread) which means you are, or you would have denied it immediately. How many times can people tell you that you are an unwelcome and disruptive influence on this forum? And yet you still proceed as if people gave a damn what you have to say. Your character is well known here, and I will not waste one more word on you except to say, for God's sake get some therapy.
all I see are towers
You long since gave up any credibility on this forum with your bots and sock puppets and method of singling out individuals to attack them, and render their contribution moot.
What on earth makes you think I would engage in a conversation here with you, under the laughable delusion that you had any intent but to disrupt, sidetrack, evade and slander.
Please don't desecrate our flag with the namw Betsy Ross. If you continue to contribute here, please do so, but use the name WormTongue. That way people will be forwarned.
I just leave it here so that people will know BR is just another of your endless, stupid, sock puppets.
This may come as a shock to you, but I really DON'T hang on your every word...or every accusation. Didn't even see it. But you, or anyone else can easily ask the forum admins to verify for you that this is the only account I use here.
Please do so and post the result of your inquiry here ok? Your credibility is at stake. Let's see what kind of integrity you have.
I'll wait.
This may come as a shock to you, but I really DON"T hang on Your every word.
And I don't give a damn what you say (now that you've had a lot of time to think it over) you are either tr@shy, or tr@shy's little minie me.
I don't care which it is.
P.S. Please don't bring articles here from Forbes Magazine if you want any credibility. You've been here a long time and -350 doesn't look like a lot of cred.
Over and out.
"you are either tr@shy, or tr@shy's little minie me. I don't care which it is."
So few possibilities from a man who is trying to sell himself as a deep thinker who truly wants to explore society's ills on an introspective level.
"now that you've had a lot of time to think it over"
Is there some sort of time limit to responses that determines their truth or falsity? Do tell.
Why haven't you asked the admins to verify your claims? Still waiting.
Obviously if my credibility here is so damaged/non-existent already then it doesn't really matter one bit where I bring articles from does it? The points on this forum might mean a whole hell of a lot to you, but they mean zip to me. As do references to MacBeth.
Increasing the Standard Deduction and limiting the Social Security withheld from paychecks (to only what is needed to pay recipients) will lower the cost of living for the middle class making American Labor more competitive in the global economy. This will also bring jobs to the U.S. and stimulate the consumer market. Investors are well financed but lack markets for investments.
I think we need to consider broader, more sweeping reforms, then what you are saying here implies.
Might be a good idea to spell synthesis correctly.
I know, I'm a terrible speller, and I write too quickly, and move from thing to thing too fast to correct myself very well. I'm sorry.
No offence intended.
None taken. I have a spacial learning disorder, and have spent a lifetime trying to overcome it. We all have our burdens to bear, and this is a pretty minor, although embarassing (sp?) one.
Had to smile. It's "spatial". :-)
Thank you for pointing that out:)
Adj. 1. spacial - pertaining to or involving or having the nature of space; "the first dimension to concentrate on is the spatial one"; "spatial ability"; "spatial ... Spacialise - Spacial - Spacial formula
The disorder associated with the the term "learning disorder" tends to be spelled spatial...not spacial.
And logic would indicate that if he truly did have it, he just might transpose the two words....rather than being unable to distinguish much distance might be between the letters or what universe he was typing them in. :-)
spellcheck helps.
When one spends their days in a rainforest, foraging for coconuts and such, and their nights puzzling over the vast and innumerable complexities of the impossibly remote stars, at play in a galaxy vast beyond all conception of vastness, considering what beings might inhabit them all, and what relation they might have to us in the inutterable intricacy of the interwoven web of life and time, there are certain things that slip through the threads of the mind.
How to use spell check, on all occasions, is one of them.
I conceed my failing here, but a writer must be concerned primarily with thoughts, an editor primarily with syntax.
In any case, I apologize again.
So do you really spend your days foraging in the rainforest for coconuts? Really?
(And I don't think you owe anyone an apology for something that is what it is. ...just saying)
nitpicker!