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Forum Post: Peter Joseph, Zeitgeist Movement Founder on TYT

Posted 1 year ago on March 14, 2013, 10:24 p.m. EST by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Published on Mar 14, 2013 This week, Cenk Uygur sits down with Peter Joseph, founder of the Zeitgeist movement and creator of Zeitgeist, The Movie. The Zeitgeist movement's goal is to create global sustainability by changing established social systems. Can people save the world by changing socially? Is the market economy responsible for corruption, and is it serving its original purpose? Does the market economy leave room for true freewill, and is it truly possible to shed ourselves of material goods? Is Wall Street and its influence creating a sickness among mankind?

Cenk Uygur talks to Peter Joseph in-depth about the Zeitgeist movement, answering questions including how it would work, if it could work, and why the current social structure needs it to work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq0LKq3_CRY&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=1

57 Comments

57 Comments


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[-] 4 points by pygmalion (24) 1 year ago

At 65 (& from personal experience) i say let the money system fade away as it's no longer relevant. Was at first skeptical of Jacque Fresco's ideas in 2007 via Zeitgeist Addendum. But no one had real solutions & life, to me, was getting more perverted. My curiousity led me to the incredible technological capabilities that could be used for the betterment of mankind but how it was being mis-used by profit driven mind-set. We've gone from pony express to the internet, so haven't we grown enuf to stop saying "that'll never happen"? We should be celebrating in the streets as a global family to know that we can stop being the only creature that pays to live. You may think this corny, however, you kids CAN make manifest the lyrics to John Lennon's "Imagine" The 60's cracked the cocoon, this generation can become The Butterfly. You get to finally say "take this job and shove it" Then people can grow to their highest potential. If i can have vision at 65, c'mon guys, let's graduate. Otherwise ur kids and grandkids may be living in a 'mad max' movie. Keep moving forward. Love, Mamma D "^_^"

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago
[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

lol, meant to include that; guess i was stoned.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Heheheh. Stoned. Lucky bastard.

Just kidding about the bastard part. Don't take it personally.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

honestly many aspects of this movement are too radical even for me. I can't see the Venus Project working the way Fresco discusses. I think he brings up a ton of great points, but overall I don't want to live in a conformed society that has such a large potential to forget about the individual. Who builds the machines that do the building? To act like people wouldn't have to do work doesn't make a lot of sense. I look at the designs in the Venus project and I see people working around the clock just like in any other society.

I'm more of a living wage and monetary reform guy. I really did enjoy watching Moving Forward. I like a lot of aspects of Zeitgeist, but I think a lot of the theories pushed in there haven't been fully analyzed, specifically the venus project. They were spot on in pointing out aspects of corruption. I found their discussion on addiction to be incredibly interesting. And the part where they talk about service industry in America was incredibly accurate.

Martin Luther King had a great quote, I'm going from memory here, it was along the lines of "the problem with communism is that it forgets about the individual. And the problem with capitalism is that it forgets about community."

but those are my thoughts. And yes I know Peter makes a reference about communism in the interview. I have no problem with communism in regards to making sure people are fed. In fact, I wish my tax dollars went to that instead of putting people in prison for drugs, or instead of funding wars and banks. Because he is right, there is more than enough food to make sure every person is fed. And we have the capability of creating a better system that provides food stability.

[-] 2 points by makeitfast (4) 1 year ago

Well said about TZM, however I want to point out that The Venus Project does NOT kill individuality, but bring it to a whole new level. By utilizing advanced automation technology, we can arrive at a production ability that so high, using money to trade or buy thing will be meaningless. Under this circumstance, people will no longer care about 'make a living', life is about learning (by doing), having fun, being around people you care, inventing, etc.

So I don't agree with what you said that Venus Project kill individuality, technology set us free so we are able to develop our potential, technology was meant to make our life easier, not to make everybody looks alike.

About who's going to build the machine, I'll say those who are good at it AND LOVE what they do. The Venus Project does not force a pianist to build robot, or a computer programmer to farming, it just provide a best environment that allows everyone to reach their highest potential. Perhaps you don't get what's fun about building a machine, but someone does, do not view things from your point only. :)

You may not believe that a Resource Based Economy will work, but do not misunderstand the idea behinds The Venus Project.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Your response about who is going to build the machines seems to me to be based on assumption in your comment "I'll say those who are good at it AND LOVE what they do." That is not a real answer. This question needs a real answer to even remotely begin to think about starting the Venus Project. Any engineer will tell you that there are years upon years of man hours to build such machines and to operate and upkeep them. And people will be needed as the society grows. Population size in such a society would sky rocket. With all the free time there would be massive amounts of sex, and with everything being free, there is no reason to limit your number of children. So as society would expand rapidly, people would have to work to build these machines. Who's going to teach people how to build and operate this stuff? Everyone is going to have to learn this. I don't think this concept has been thought out enough and it depends on people with a utopian response.

Currency was created to simplify the barter system. Currency is not the problem The problem is corruption.

Like I said, I'm more of a living wage and monetary reform guy. The perfect blend of capitalism and communism. I think there are many ideas that can be taken and learned from the Venus Project. But overall, I don't see it working, and just looking at it I have to say I don't want to live in such a conformed society. We have enough conformity as it is now, as Peter pointed out in the video, and that level of conformity already bothers me.

If the Venus Project could better explain itself, maybe I could get on board. But the way it is presented acts like human beings are perfect.

[-] 3 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Hey TM, I've been thinking about this for a while.

A main point of mine which you disagree with is that currency IS the problem and corruption is just a factor of humanity. Mix humanity with currency and you produce a surface issue. Change human nature (not likely) or change the economic system (more likely) and you will change the surface issue: the existence of the 1% and all it's destruction.

Jacque is planning for a way to sustain massive population growth. Fixing education is part of the plan. Have you seen some of the random videos on YouTube? I love how he says stuff like "that's fuct up" and how silly we are for teaching babys that cows go moo, when they should be learning about electronics. So true... I don't want my kids to go to school because it just makes them stupider, which takes me to the next point...

TVP will not jeopardize individuality. Quite the opposite, compared to today's standards. You will have total freedom to be all you want to be, and the means to do it without financial barriers. We won't be stuck in a rut like today. See ZEITGEIST: Moving Forward at 2 hours and 5 minutes to see what I mean.

On ZEITGEIST: Moving Forward, see 1 hour 26 mins, "the poorer you are in this country... the worse your health is... It's not about being poor, it's about feeling poor." Watch until after 1:28:35. So it's worth it just for the health factor.

I don't think TVP could be better explained. I was so happy to hear Jacque's voice at the beginning of ZEITGEIST. I thought "I know that voice, who is it?" Then quickly I remembered and was thrilled to watch the rest of the movie.

It's time to give it up. To hell with money and living wages. There is no reason to fear the change, but huge reason to fear not changing in this way.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I can't see this working. It's communism and it abandons all aspects, homes, etc, of the previous lifestyle. It's much like communism only it believes that robots can do all the work. In reality everyone would be working toward building those designs Fresco had.

If you guys can do a scale colony, and actually see if 3% of people actually have to do work, you'll get me interested. I'd bet just about everyone will be building and farming all day.

There's lots of aspects I like about it, a lot really, but the overall "how" is not explained well enough as I mention with the man hours needed to build everything.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

That bit about communism is absolutely wrong and I practically feel like I'm owed an apology.

Yes people will still be working for a while on making the vision a reality. Obviously. That's the difference between this and communism: they aren't working for money. Communism is just as flawed as any money-based system.

It's absurd to think living wage capitalism is better than a resource-based economy.

Calling this communism is proof you need to try harder to understand it.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Why would I owe you an apology?

Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless[1][2] and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order.

Why is calling it communism wrong? It's what it is. There's a lot of aspects I like about communism.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Most people don't know what communism is. They think of all sorts of bad people, things and events. They learn in school that you will lose your identity. The brainwashing will make average people run for their life from potential socialism.

This isn't about wearing uniforms and students getting uniform education. You won't be told what to do and how to do it.

The apology is for making this out to be bad, by accident or whatever, and classifying it as some past obsolete system.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

It is communism by definition. Not by some stupid association with propaganda people have with communism.

I just said this to Builder who joined in on this convo - there are a lot of aspects I like about communism. I disagree with these guys (you being one of the guys) and think we need the perfect blend of capitalism and communism. Which is why I support public education, public health care, food security for the poor, more public housing, a living wage, and hardcore monetary reform.

I'm not saying the Venus Project is bad. I just think it's unproven and makes wild claims.

-edit (if you want to convince people, maybe you should answer their questions about the process, you blew off my previous comment because I said communism)

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Sorry, bad mood last night.

I just hate resistance to change and ya. I apologize.

But I still think it's unfair to label it as communism even if it appears to fall into that category. I may reply again with better comments when I have a computer handy.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

No apology necessary. I am not resistant to change. I just don't think the Venus Project has proven it's concept. I think it makes too many assumptions. Everyone would be working on building those machines and the cities, and doing farming, for years and years.

The things I've mentioned are pretty radical change, but they have also been proven to work, which is why I push for them over things like the Venus Project which expects people to abandon all aspects of their previous lifestyle, including their homes.

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Maybe some people will choose not to move into the new cities. I don't see why they should be forced to, unless they are forcing their children to significantly suffer in pollution and anything else seriously detrimental to health.

As for city building, machines can easily do it with minimal human involvement and waste. It's actually simple that way, especially when things are replicable.

There would be no sacrifice by engineers as their talents will be leveraged and freed. The stuff they do for money today could be educational pursuits/achievements tomorrow.

There would be no movement to remove freedoms like artistic (clothing, music, etc).

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I couldn't reply below. I did quite a bit of research on it during the early days of OWS. Checked a lot of web pages and videos. One thing I will say about Fresco tho, is he's definitely a genius and has done quite a bit of good as far as getting people to think outside the box. There's a lot to learn from the man, but I did get the impression he's not interested in any outside help. And I agree with you that there is probably a bit of manipulation going on behind the scenes. Probably people with an agenda, possibly to figure out a way to profit off of it because there are a lot of people out there that believe in it. And you know how things are, when there's a very large group of like-minded individuals, it doesn't take long before the vultures swoop in looking to make a profit off of them.

The biggest problem I see, as far as RBE, is that for all the good it sounds, it will take a very long time before society will transition away from money. A VERY long time, if ever. Definitely not in our lifetimes.

[-] 2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

I only ever saw truth in what I've heard him say. I found myself agreeing whenever something controversial appeared. Like when people attack him with "Who gets to say who can have children when we reach the maximum?" He's right! Why do you care who gets the privilege when the fact is that this is a finite planet, and at some point the max population will be reached.

He even indicates that society would suffer as a whole before people need to start killing fetuses, that as a scientific civilization we would determine logically which systems should suffer first and so on, until society collapses to the point where population controls are needed.

The only valid negative response I've seen (err how to say this?), the only alleged flaw I can say is a real problem is that it's not proven or will take too long to implement.

So is that where people draw the line and hang up their hardhats? We shouldn't be opposing this but hoping it comes true, watching in anticipation.

I never though about possibly people trying to profit from the idea. I only pictured corporations suppressing it like technologies and cures. Interesting though.

Have you understood yet why I've been pushing the 99% Conglomerate so hard? I see it as the bridge between here and there. I'm hoping it gets us to an RBE in my lifetime.

I have no fear of it, but many do. I'm not worried about losing my car, home and worldly possessions. They don't define me. In an RBE I can have what I need to do what I want, how I want.

People afraid to give up their stuff to save the world are sad souls. They are controlled by their possessions and fear that without them, they are more inferior. Fear is the mind killer and consequent decisions are tainted and illogical.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Just out of curiosity, Kavatz, how old are you. Don't take it wrong, I don't mean it as a smartass question, I'm genuinely curious. I thought somewhere you said you were retired, but I might be wrong. The reason I ask is because you say you'd like to see society transition to a resource-based economy in your lifetime. If you are retired, that's being quite optimistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Thanks for considering and not rejecting! Sorry for nagging.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

No problem. Just got a lot on my mind right now. Hard to keep it all straight.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

You could lend a hand by joining the Conglomerate!

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I'm considering it. Give me a little time.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

30ish

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Ah, must have been a different poster I was thinking about. Thanks. Make these upcoming years count, they start passing rather quickly before you realize it.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

again no explanation of the initial process. No outside major research.

Those plans Fresco made would take years and lots of man hours to build. Machines don't build themselves. Someone has to build the machines first.

You can't just say "it's actually simple" and leave out every single step of the process.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

It's pretty much a fraud, in my opinion. Fresco's been 'working' on this thing since the 60's and still no viable, working model. Fresco's an arrogant hard-head that flat refuses to accept the help of outside scientists and engineers. There's dozens of them that have volunteered to help the guy and he refuses. And Roxanne Meadows has actually stated (in an interview) that the science behind this is "beyond the understanding of today's scientists and engineers." In other words, only Fresco's smart enough to understand it. What a crock.

[-] 2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Ya, it's starting to look like the old guy is losing his marbles. What do you expect though. I'm sure a lot of what's being made popular on YouTube is taken out of context (as if a sane individual would declare no other person can understand something). I also imagine some secret groups are working hard to manipulate the people at TVP. Sounds like a hate campaign is working harder than the people who should be seeking a better tomorrow.

I still admire the man for his life's work and hope we learn something from it without falling for 1% tactics.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Start about 1 hour 50 mins into this http://sprword.com/videos/zeitgeistmovingforward/

Watch at least 5 mins. Now even without research, don't you think this is far less risky than your best-case scenario outcome? What do you think of the vertical farms cutting waste and increasing output without Monsevil chemicals... think that can happen without a shift to TVP? No, the corporations and their assclown shareholders won't allow it.

Watch on as they explain how machines manufacture buildings without manpower, "it's called mechanization, or the automation of labor. " The technology is already perfected (in current manufacturing, as emphasized throughout), we just need to apply it to this. It's also explained in other vids but this is the best example I've seen.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

again nothing about how to initiate this is in that video. I've seen it. It's broad and general with no specifics of how to start it.

How do we transform from what we have to what the Venus Project is? Just do it is not an answer. I need a layout. Even the video says things still need to be analyzed.

I can give you a layout for the process to transform monetary policy. You guys should be able to give me a layout for how to initiate this process.

For one, you'd have to overthrow the government or work within it to transform it. I need these steps. These need to be explained. Until then it is a pipe dream. The current power structure woulf first need to be dismantled and you'd have to unite the people. These steps need to be explained. And of course after that, then what. How many people are needed in every single city to build these machines? How long will it take. How do we counter withdrawing from the global markets in regards to things like sugar and other foods we get from other countries dependent on currencies? Etc etc etc. We'd need to depend on current energy forms until the new power source has been established, how do we do this in a global market based on currency if we no longer have currency. All this needs to be explained. The Venus Project is way too general in it's explanation of initiating the project.

You're going to have to convince the entire US population into doing this, or even the world. I think you're going to have to start out with a colony to prove the concept in this regard. You're talking about getting people to abandon their homes, their cars, and more. You're going to need a big convincing mechanism to do this.

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

That part is covered in more than one video. People build the machines and continue to do so well into the future. The machines build structures in a day and waste nothing where with people it would take hundreds of man-hours from designing to production/acquisition of materials, supplies and equipment, to clean up. The machine does it alone in a day, and maybe a few people are needed for two hours to set up, clean up and move to the next site.

Next, everything is designed to last for as long as possible, including the infrastructure. Everything is automated. People are needed but just for a tiny fraction of the time, and the process becomes less dependent on human interaction as methods/technologies improve.

This can work, it could have 40 years ago, the problem is getting to a state where we know everyone is free and equal with needs met.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Link the video please.

Ive seen moving forward and another doc on Venus. None of which outline the initiation

The concept needs to be proven. Do a scale colony. Find a way to start that.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Communism was bin Laden in shorter pants.

The red peril. The creeping commie sickness.

The propaganda machine's raison d'etre.

The reason for Al Qaeda's existence and funding by the US govt.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

What?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

For generations, communism has been drilled into the heads of Americans as being the exact opposite of what America stands for.

I know it's all BS, and so do you, but the masses still think about reds under their beds, and keeping alert to communist plotters within their midst.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

lol yah many do. It has Peter bitter in the TYT interview when Cenk compared the venus project to communism. Even though it's what it is.

Like I said, there are a lot of aspects I like about communism. I disagree with these guys and think we need the perfect blend of capitalism and communism. Which is why I support public education, public health care, food security for the poor, more public housing, a living wage, and hardcore monetary reform.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Perhaps Socialist capitalism is what you seek?

Germany's system is both strongly socialist, while maintaining capitalism's key strengths. Australia's system is similar.

What I'm saying here, is that both words, "socialism" and "communism" have been twisted by your MSM to mean different things from what other English-speaking nations know them to mean. It's already happened with the words, liberal and progressive.

It's easy to demonise anything when you own the bulk of the media outlets.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

That's exactly how i see what has happened in this country

Many of the people in the early 20th century who were involved in the labor struggles were either communists, or socialists..

They were the radicals of their day, and they had to be discredited so that unfettered capitalism could grow

These people sacrificed so much and the generations that followed them benefited greatly, and we have lost sight of that

First they successfully 'bogeymanned-ized' the commies....building the MID simultaneously, then the socialists, and most recently the liberals,

And so here we are

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Ironic that the only remaining communist nation is both supplier and financier to the US. If we were really honest, there's no way we could actually call congress, a congress.

By definition, it most certainly is not.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Yes, it is kinda ironic, isn't it that China is our benefactor

Well we are getting screwed so "congress" might be the right word

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Hmmm.

Congress: "The term was chosen for the United States Congress to emphasize the status of each state represented there as a self-governing unit."

Damn, Builder, you're right. Yet more illusion.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

yep yep. Manufacturing consent always hard at work!

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

That's exactly what I said to the Zeitgeist-TVP people when they were around here during the early days. If they really want people to get on board, build a small-scale development to work the bugs out and prove the viability of the concept.

Fresco started a project in Florida a long time ago and wound up ripping off the investors.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

All I'm asking is for them to prove the concept, or at least fully explain how it starts. There are millions of people in this country. Those cities and machines are not going to build themselves.

Do you have a link about the Florida thing?

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (5739) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I did quite a bit of research on both those movements during the early days and checked a lot of links. It was a different computer so I don't have any of the links saved. But it might have been here:

http://anticultist.wordpress.com/

There's a lot to look at on that site though. I haven't read any of it in a very long time so it might be the wrong link.

[-] 1 points by makeitfast (4) 1 year ago

"If the Venus Project could better explain itself, maybe I could get on board."

Yeah, did you even give it a chance? Venus Project have released hundreds of material on their website and on YouTube channel for free. At least you have to watch the following films: Paradise or Oblivion & Future by Design (all could be found on YouTube) before you declare "I've done my research, but I still don't see how this will work." Suppose a man spent just one hour on biology and jump to the conclusion: biology is useless. What would you say about him?

I can tell your suspicion toward Venus Project was due to severely lack of information. Why? Because every line of your assumption are so unsurprising. If there is a book about 'typical misunderstanding about The Venus Project', your words will be on the first page!

"Without job and don't have to worry about food, people would just screw around or sit on couch watch TV all day." "The Venus Project is Utopian." "Money is not the problem, human nature is." Myth like this could be easily debunked by anyone who spent enough time (at least 20 more hours if you ask me) on The Venus Project materials. I won't give the straight answer here, all I can do is leave the clue. I have learned that unless a person does his research and change his point of view in the process, no matter how obvious the answer may sound, if the answer comes from other people, the person will never move his position.

Again, materials presented on movie ZM2 and ZM3 are just few aspects of The Venus Project, not an over-all. With only some pieces of puzzle in the hand, you cannot see the whole picture.

Look INTO it, not just at it. That way you might actually learn something new.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

I was hoping you have the time to comment on this. http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/summarizing-the-future-conglomerate-style/ I can explain the stuff you aren't familiar with in greater detail, as it's very 1,000,000 foot view of things. My point is it fits in very well with the movement towards TVP, and a possible solution for a political/governance framework thereafter.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Right. In my post below "I don't think TVP could be better explained".

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

you could start with how the initial process starts.

Who builds the cities and the machines? The machines cannot initiate the process.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Right, that's what's missing. There is no bridge. Will we flip the switch when the world economy comes to a halt? Is that when we immediately put new people in power to organize the resources (including human resources) and we start working knowing there will be food for everyone when they go home?

I didn't see anything from anyone about how the gap is bridged. That's why I started talking about the Conglomerate. It is the bridge. With the spread of cooperative and worker ownership mentality.

Then we've also heard no real mention of political structure and governance. That's why I'm talking about Departmental Governance.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

So what's the bridge?

step by step it for me. These things should be known already if you guys want this to happen.

This is not a simple process. In fact it will be incredibly hard. I do not see it as possible. But nothing has been outlined.

I can give you outlines for everything I discussed in regards to living wage, public health care, public housing, and how to cover the costs. These things have also been proven to work.

also I'm not against you on this, I'm just not convinced.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

I understand you are not convinced, but not against the idea.

We have to have faith though. Not moving this way means game over.

How about we agree that what you have outlines for is a temporary relief effort while further plans unfold, and until money is no longer? And we refrain from labeling it communism, for the sake of not botching the future.

I also like living wage, public health care, public housing, and how to cover the costs. But it's just for the current system.

What is the difference between socialism and communism again? I might start a post asking for people's opinion, because I don't think I really understand. (though google is just a click away ;)

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

""Without job and don't have to worry about food, people would just screw around or sit on couch watch TV all day.""

First of all I never said anything like that. So don't try and put words in my mouth. I also 100% think that money is one of the main problems. The system is being used incorrectly.

How is everything built and who builds it? Who builds the machines? Who builds the city? Robots cannot initiate this process. This stuff takes a long time to build on a large scale. How many people are needed? These types of questions should be simple to answer.

here is my reply to Kavatz on this

I can't see this working. It's communism and it abandons all aspects, homes, etc, of the previous lifestyle. It's much like communism only it believes that robots can do all the work. In reality everyone would be working toward building those designs Fresco had.

If you guys can do a scale colony, and actually see if 3% of people actually have to do work on the machines, you'll get me interested. I'd bet just about everyone will be building and farming all day.

[-] 0 points by makeitfast (4) 1 year ago

Funny to see people would spend all day to criticize something he doesn't know much about, but refuse to spend one hour on doing research. haha...

I get it, you are more like a 'stick to status quo/comfort zone' guy. Now I do get it.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You haven't spent one comment actually explaining something you say you've researched. My questions should be easy to answer had you yourself researched it. I've watched 2 docs on the subject, all of which fail to address the initial process and act like human being would not be working toward building those cities for years and years.

"If you guys can do a scale colony, and actually see if 3% of people actually have to do work on the machines, you'll get me interested. I'd bet just about everyone will be building and farming all day."

The Venus Project makes wild claims. It is unproven.

However, a living wage, public health, public housing, and good monetary policy has been proven to work. This is why I push for these things. When you can prove to me how the Venus Project would work, instead of making assumptions and personally attacking me, you'll have me interested.

Like I said, there are many things I like about the Venus Project. It just hasn't been proven. And it hasn't explained how it's any different from communism. And not the communism they taught in the 80's. But communism by definition.

The problem with communism is that it forgets about the individual. And the problem with capitalism is that it forgets about community. This is one of the reasons I like the blend of both. Which if you noticed, is radical change in comparison to the status quo.

[-] 1 points by makeitfast (4) 1 year ago

Right, 'seeing is believing' that kind of crap. Let me put this way: before Wright Brothers, had anyone proven that human can fly? Then what happened?

Just because something has never been done before, doesn't mean it is not worthy to try. If you still use that inside-the-box way of thinking, you'll never get rid of war, poverty, inequity, famine, crime and corruption, which are just SYMPTOMs caused by the monetary system per se.

And no, "good monetary policy" have never been proven to work. It just happen to be less terrible at that particular period To The Certain Country.

I'm talking about a GLOBAL sustainable community here. By your definition of "good policy works" kind golden age, there's still poverty and hunger in Africa, South America, South Asia and Middle East. Venus Project view the entire planet as whole, not just a country. Unless EVERYONE on earth has a decent life, no system is working.

“You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it. You must learn to see the world anew.” -Albert Einstein

The Venus Project maybe sound radical to some people, but it sounds more reasonable to all it's supporters. To me, demand hardcore, softcore or half-ass monetary reform from government and vest interested group, THAT'S radical and naive also.

And did you just said you have watch Paradise or Oblivion and could not find an answer to explain how the Venus Project different from communism? Well, it just pops up on my screen @5:00. How do you justify yourself with this?

"initial process and act like human being would not be working toward building those cities for years and years" Response to that can be found @42:05 in Future By Design. Also, google '3D-priting' and start thinking on this emerging revolutionary technology in large scale and application potential, you might find the answer. If you are not familiar with either 'memory metal' or '3D-printing', then you obviously need more information to understand what the future may look like.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

The Wright brothers proved their concept. I'm asking you guys to do the same.

I never said it's not worthy to try. I think you should try it and let me know how it goes.

It has to start somewhere. Prove the concept with a colony. If it works and is prosperous that will be how you convince people to join.

I think people will be building and farming the entire time. Prove me wrong. Gather a bunch of people up and try to start this.

How do you initiate? -prove the concept.

I know about 3D printing. You'll have to have humans build the 3D printers first.