Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Persuading a conservative wall st friend

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 7:39 p.m. EST by trots2 (4)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I managed to persuade someone who is very conservative to be sympathetic to our cause and thought I would post a (redacted for identity purposes) chat log that might enlighten some people (I'm Peter):

Ch

thought you will like...occupy this hum... :)

311996_10150495110378569_523363568_11086561_410022633

_n.jpg

  • This refers to that pic of the girl holding the sign saying she works very hard, minimum wage, didn't ask for handouts, derides protestors, ect.*

Peter

Yes I saw that. And I responded to that in another thread on someone's page. It is unbelievable that people like this think it's ok to be totally taken advantage off by the financial system and that they should work 7 days a week at minimum wage just to barely survive. It's outrageous!

Ch

Its absolutely not outrageous..its the mindset of a hard working and succeful person - whose sucess will be punished by useless occupy wallstreet demonstrators and socialist lazy bums who dont want to work hard and have easy life....and also all the successful people worked hard like him...didnt go on wall street and protested in hope for getting some free money...so messgae is work hard and shut up and also he didnt blame wall st for all the wrong decisions (if at all he did any) unlike most others out in the street...

Peter

People are not angry because they want "free money" They are angry because they as a whole have been exploited by their employers, who have done nothing but cut benefits, medical insurance, salaries, and layoff people by the millions. And now, all the young people especially have no where to turn to find work, having finished degrees in advanced fields. And they have a mountain of debt thanks to rising education costs, rising interest rates for privately managed federal loans, and cuts to subsidies and scholarships. As entry-level positions now require around 3-5 years MINIMUM of experience, the people graduating now are completely out of luck finding work. And you can't blame them for not being hard working or not doing the right thing. They are out of luck thanks to triple AAA rated mortgage backed securities (given those ratings by S&P and Moody's when they only gave those ratings to about 10 major companies), that were sold and gambled on by AIG, Goldman Sachs (who bet against their own sales). Those securities caused the destruction of about 17 trillion dollars in assests (more than the entire GDP of the United States). This caused the housing bubble to collapse, with millions upon milions of home-owners owing more on their homes than the equity in those homes. All of this was thanks to the repeal of

Glass-Steagel by Bill Clinton, pushed through by a republican house and senate in the late 1990's.

6 Comments

6 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 1 points by trots2 (4) 3 years ago

Thanks for the response. I'll check that out. I wish this forum posted comments top > down because the order of what i wrote is mixed up.

[-] 1 points by frankchurch1 (839) from Jersey City, NJ 3 years ago

I used to be a moderate, thought Reagan was great, now I am radical, mostly because I read books, Chomsky, Zinn, Tariq Ali, Robert Fisk, Alfie Kohn, Arundhati Roy. Tell Conservatives to look at Alternet, Commondreams.org, The Nation, Zmag.org. They might learn something. I did.

[-] 1 points by trots2 (4) 3 years ago

Peter It's understandable. I live with my girlfriend also in flushing. I have a a nice 2br apt. And the bills are ridiculous. Of course you have a right to your views. But it's important to be open minded enough to be able to look at life from a different perspective. I respect that you work hard. I'm just saying that it now takes 2 people working full time to maintain a lifestyle that 25 years ago it only took one person. The result is that people no longer have any time for leisure, which is just as important as having a solid work ethic. It means not being able to spend time with your kids, playing with them, educating them. You can understand that having a 2 yr old. At no point in time am I advocating laziness. I get ALOT done because I learned how to be very efficient with my time. And you caught me today on a rare day off. By the way, it takes me at most 2-3 minutes to write each of these messages. I type at 80+ words a minute on a bad day.

Ch

he he about 2-3 minutes to type the msg... :) Good to hear that you doing good in life with gf n all..you know honestly my view point comes from all these higher taxes etc...like last yr I paid 60K in taxes and this year I will pay at least 80K in taxes and I am thinking what the hell...I wokr hard in this capitalist country and I deserve better...anyways this can continue..lets plan to meet up sometime...

Peter

I'm totally with you on that. You might not realize it right now, but you are in the same boat as the rest of us, the bottom 99% of people. In the

1950's, the taxes used to be much higher on the 1% than for you and me. Now they pay so little or no taxes. GE for example got a REFUND last year instead of paying billions of taxes because they offshore their profits. Now that tax burden is shifted so much more to the lower and middle classes. That is what I believe is immoral. It is not a question of work ethics. Your anger to paying so much in taxes is completely understandable, but if you made a few hundred thousand more, you would pay very little in taxes due to most of your income being from capital gains. Which is just as unfair as what you pay in taxes now. I hope that you won't just disregard what I said.

[-] 1 points by trots2 (4) 3 years ago

Peter I have demonstrated through facts why the majority of people are not responsible for the situations they find themselves in. If you did not read what I said, then please read through again. If you still don't understand, feel free to take some history, civics and economics classes. Try to open your mind to ideas other than those that caused you to be brainwashed to the enormous abuses of power in the world that all of working people are paying for. Also, it's a sign of the weakness of your argument that you have to denigrate people and resort to personal attacks calling people "lazy bums" rather than addressing the facts that I have presented. If you think I'm a lazy bum, I work 3 jobs at 70 hours a week, and I can barely afford my bills, and can't even afford health insurance. I have a Masters degree and have also done pre-doctoral work. I'm paying off my student loans, and I was forced to buy a new car (due to my old one breaking down) that I'm paying for myself. I didn't ask for any handouts. It is one thing to work hard..and quite another to be exploited and treated like mule that doesn't know its' own value. THIS is where people are in this country. If you can't realize that, I feel deeply sorry for you. And also for lack of compassion to millions of people that are truly suffering thanks to injustices perpetrated on them by the elites.

Ch

dude: after working 70 hrs etc etc you still have time to write all these big msgs but hey I am a poor wall streeter who works only 100+ hrs a week and have no time for this bs...so bye

Actually sorry bro: I didnt mean to be rude or anything. You have right to your views and I have to mine - as long as we dont step on each other (not saying that you did). How you been otherwise. Sorry to hear that you have to work 70 hrs. I do 100+ hrs too though :) You still at ___? I am still in Flishing...married and have a 2 yr old now.

Ch

Again apologies if I was rude...
[-] 1 points by trots2 (4) 3 years ago

Peter

Ch, I'm not sure how you can blame anyone except the big banks for the worldwide destruction of assets caused by the big banks, that then profited by betting against those futures. Those banks stole the futures of the entire middle class. Income disparity is the greatest since the Great Depression. Tax rates are the lowest. Tax loopholes favor the 1% substantially and they pay the lowest tax rates out of anyone thanks to the majority of their income coming from capital gains at a rate of 15%.

Peter

Life is not just about working hard, it is about having fairness in the system. It is about society taking care of the people that have fallen on hard times, like what was done with the 1930's New Deal. It is about stopping financial sector abuses, and government corruption through a system that equates money to free speech thanks to the Citizens United

ruling by the Supreme Court. That sabotages the prosperity of the many for the greed of the few.

Ch your arguments make me feel bad that we have young ppl who think like you...lazy bums who want to blame others for their own deficiencies...you guys are so out of whck that I dont even feel like replying...

[-] 1 points by BrandNewDay (1) 3 years ago

It seems you are the lazy one, Ch. Lazy minded that is. You won't even try to grasp the wisdom that is being shared with you. Do yourself a favor and read the Peter Principle where competence is not necessary for a ticket to the top. It's how badly you want to get there and how much of a blind eye you willing to develop. Sadly, I see more and more sheep growing the wool over their own eyes all in pursuit of a quickly fading dream. Also, you are incorrect life shouldn't be work overtime until you hit the grave while others skim off the top and enjoy a life of leisure. That is a lie sold to you just like everything else that rules you life. Don't be lazy mind THINK and ask questions!