Forum Post: 26 MORE?? PEOPLE PLEASE, Senselessness Becomes Action ~ The NRA is Thoroughly Deranged~ MORATORIUM!!
Posted 11 years ago on Dec. 14, 2012, 1:05 p.m. EST by WSmith
(2698)
from Cornelius, OR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
20 KIDS!! 6 Adults!! SENSELESSNESS becomes action at some point - ban guns! (Update: let's have a moratorium on guns and ammo.)
The NRA made it clear that they are a THOROUGHLY DERANGED organization, and dealing with them is futile. MORATORIUM!!!
Grabbed a gun and blew 26 away!!!
20 elementary school kids ~ dead
TOO FUCKING EASY! Too easy to steal or get a terminal weapon!
WTF is happening tomorrow????
This is getting monotonous!!!
How about a Moratorium on all guns for a year just to normalize!!!!??
What would be the harm? Stop all gun and ammo sales for a year. End the gun show sales. Promote gun returns, by-backs, contributions.
Work on what's wrong with our 50% gun ownership and our 5% occupation of this earth??!!
Please post websites and links for change! This madness must end!!
What we are seeing with all of these shootings is the product of the psychological damage caused by our CULTURE OF IMPUNITY.
[-] 2 points by WSmith (2070) 18 hours ago
Obviously there is much confusion and disagreement, yet thousands of people are getting shot every year (makes you wonder about the RW Fast and Furious hysteria). We already have 50% of the worlds firearms and we are only 5% of the world's population, so we have PLENTY of guns.
Let's call a time out, a moratorium, until we figure this stupid mess out.
There is ZERO urgency to maintain our archaic status quo gun availability. There is TREMENDOUS and OVERWHELMING urgency to END the shootings!!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/people-please-senselessness-becomes-action-ban-eas/
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[-] -1 points by outlawtumor (-119) 17 hours ago
Thousands more die in cars every year,yet we won't ban them. And cars aren't even a Constitutional right,...maybe by the end of Obama's second term they could be.
Please,by all means. Then let's put a "moratorium" on the complete rest of the Constitution also until we figure this stupid mess out.
If we're taking away rights let's just take them all away,....for everybody at the same time just to be fair and equal. Pesky freedoms seem to keep getting in the way of a safe,perfect and wondrous Utopia, Those Founding Fathers are long dead so why the hell should we listen to them?
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[-] 1 points by WSmith (2070) 5 hours ago
Your ENTITLEMENT is a musket in a well regulated militia, law enforcement and military has that covered. You're whining about a dangerous hobby that you idiots proved, many more times than you deserve, that you can't handle!
The Public's RIGHT to not be shot TRUMPS your stupid hobby!!!
There is ZERO urgency to maintain our archaic status quo gun availability. There is TREMENDOUS and OVERWHELMING urgency to END the shootings!!
Cars, unfortunately, have replaced public transportation so that Big Oil can milk the public like cows, and make record profits while we foot the bill for the collateral costs of oil dependency ~ pollution, war, automobiles, roads, etc. But they provide a necessary service, UNLIKE GUNS!!!!
US needs to go UK on guns!!!
Moratorium NOW!!!!!
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[-] 0 points by outlawtumor (-119) 2 hours ago
You display your ignorance quite boastfully and proud. Apparently you didn't get the memo:
The Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms IS NOT A HOBBY!!
I've read your same tired,childish rant over and over on here. Somehow you got the idea that if you applied your ignorance about the 2nd Amendment with the logic of a 3rd grader and expressed it in strong enough terms, (with conviction) that you just might convince at least some of these low information voters that you have a valid point.
But,alas that isn't the case.
All you've done is provide some very low brow,lackluster and quite banal entertainment.
Take your sideshow of ignorance and go amuse some more gullible,low information types. You frankly are about as qualified to comment on this subject as perhaps a real 3rd grader. However,depending on their parents guidance you could well be out shined and humiliated again.
You write words that are backed by no real knowledge or experience. Get it together,you're fast becoming a professional Fool!!
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[-] 1 points by WSmith (2070) 1 minute ago
Typical RW talking point recital, incapable of critical analysis, just obedient parroting. Like most righties, you'd have made a good Nazi!
Thousands of Americans are getting shot every year with irresponsible firearm dispersal (makes you wonder about the RW Fast and Furious hysteria). We already have 50% of the worlds firearms and we are only 5% of the world's population, so we have PLENTY of guns.
Let's call a time out, a moratorium, until we figure this stupid mess out.
There is ZERO urgency to maintain open gun availability. There is TREMENDOUS and OVERWHELMING urgency to END the shootings!!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/people-please-senselessness-becomes-action-ban-eas/
We in the US need to join the 21st century and go UK on guns!!!
Immediate Moratorium for NOW!!!!!
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GET REAL!
The Constitution has many more proclamations and amendments than the ones pertaining to number 2. But you'd never know that listening to these RW talking point Zombies! The vast majority of the constitution advocates the welfare, protection, freedom, happiness, and rights of We The People! It doesn't have a getting shot exception ANYWHERE!! We The People are not supposed to get shot by fucking gun nuts!
At first the Constitution was OK with Slavery and Denying Women the Vote, so we changed it.
Now the Constitution has some vague proclamations about arms or guns that fucking gun nuts interpret as a call to go all David Koresh/Branch Davidian and maintain an arsenal to fight the Big Bad Guvmint. It's to the point that our 5% population on this planet has amassed 50% of it's guns. That's like our 1% owning 42+% of our wealth (that we ~ offshore, tax havens ~ know of), equally FUCKED UP!! Gun nuts need more guns like the 1% need more money!!! So it's TIME TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION again!!
Meanwhile, let's address the singularly glaring URGENCY here and stop people from grabbing freely available guns and shooting other people. The idea that some sort of harm would come to fucking gun nuts if we applied some gun control IS INSANE!!!! And even if it did WHO FUCKING CARES!!! If we only saved one life a year with gun control IT'S WORTH IT!!!
But how we allowed this wild west mythology with guns to continue into 2013 is OUTRAGEOUS!!
Time to get real and move forward. We should copy the UK ASAP!
In the meantime we should begin a moratorium on gun and ammo sales yesterday! And go ahead and collect all guns for processing. Slap a $10K fine on per gun ownership! Sorry nuts, you brought this on yourselves. And OUR LIVES trump your hobby/sport/paranoia!!
Then we have to sort out the gun hair ball we have allowed to wad up until we find something that works.
Another thing to start with, revoke/repeal the Bush-Cheney gun manufacturer liability exemption law! NOW!
None of this would be on our little minds at all if gun nuts shot the 1% instead of us 99%. We do their shooting for them, in the Class War we're losing! And they FUCKING love it!
When the government is droning people in Africa and the middle east, and flying drones off the coast here, and repealing your 2nd amendment rights, and throwing you in jail for practicing your 1st amenedment rights (any occupier knows this one) then the "big bad gubment" stuff should at least be humored.
Hc, are you really Nathan Schwartz?
Would you be happier if they sent soldiers or agents like we did before drones? Or would you just like to end all war?
We all know about the penalties for protesting from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and the Bush-Cheney years.
Remember the Tea Bag protests? That was "them" trying to copy the left, they openly carried guns, not one arrest. Now they're giving Boner and the RW establishment migraines.
Moratorium on guns and ammo now. One Black Hawk could take out a thousand drum circles no matter how well they were armed, before you could say "Don't taze me bro!"
"One Black Hawk could take out a thousand drum circles no matter how well they were armed, before you could say "Don't taze me bro!"
I understand that. And with their current actions, it should be at least in the back of people's minds. Governments go bad. Its a guarantee. Its only a matter of time. The most powerful government the world has ever seen is not immune from this natural trend.
Im not saying we need to stock up on ammo to fight the feds. Im saying that when "When the government is droning people in Africa and the middle east, and flying drones off the coast here, and repealing your 2nd amendment rights, and throwing you in jail for practicing your 1st amenedment rights (any occupier knows this one)"....and lets through in Gitmo too- is holding people indefinitely considered torture?- just be careful where you place your faith.
http://www.demandaplan.org/
Good luck with that. Obama is almost as far right as Bush. Its dead on arrival. People who order bombs overseas arent worried a a few deaths of us commoners. Think about it.
You are expecting an entity that is openly killing people, lots of em, to care about human life.
I applaud your petition. Just dont expect this group to do anything with it.
Pres Obama is not progressive and always gives too much to the conservatives but to say he is "as far right as Bush" is a blatant lie and a pathetic weak attempt to minimize the crimes of your boy Bush.
Lying right wing piece of shit?
Signed! Well done.
spread it around!
Yessir.
stop
LOL. Just playin. I will spread it around though.
You just want to continue the weak effort to distract from the real enemy who CONTROLS the peoples gubment.
THE 1% CORP OLIGARCHS!
Challenge govt in court regarding the rights violations they initiate at the behest of their 1% plutocrat puppet masters,
Protest against all war, agitate all pols to end drone strikes. But never forget who the real enemy is.
THE 1% CORP OLIGARCHS!
Demand A Plan to End Gun Violence
Published on Dec 21, 2012
Artists have joined the effort to Demand A Plan and recorded a powerful, personal message. Watch, share, and join them: http://www.demandaplan.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64G5FfG2Xpg&feature=player_embedded
The US Has Averaged More Than 18 Gun Deaths Every Day Since the Newtown School Shooting
Investigative project reveals shocking numbers.
January 3, 2013 |
There have been more than 400 guns deaths since the Newtown massacre on December 14, according to a new interactive project between Slate.com and the anonymous twitter user @gundeaths.
The two launched the project because, as Slate writes, there are few real-time chronicles of daily gun deaths in the United States, despite the daily mention of firearms and gun politics in the media since the shooting. In fact, the onslaught of reporting on guns has been so intense, The Huffington Post published an article this morning with the headline “So You’re Bored of the Newtown Massacre?”
Gun deaths have been a daily reality since the Newtown massacre less than three weeks ago, with an average of 18 people dying each day as a result of a fatal shooting, according to the data compiled by @gundeaths. Six of those deaths have been children under the age of 13, and another 21 were youths under the age of 17.
The vast majority of people who have died as a result of gun violence since Newtown were men. Out of the 406 fatal shootings in @gundeaths compilation, only 49 of the victims were women. For teenagers, the gender gap is even starker: 19 boys and only 2 girls have died of gun-related violence since Newtown.
The anonymous twitter user @gundeaths began reporting every instance of a fatal shooting he could find after the Aurora, Colorado, mass shooting on July 20. His data set is incomplete, meaning that the number of gun deaths since Newtown likely exceeds 406.
The Huffington Post recently undertook a similar project, chronicling the first 100 gun deaths since the Sandy Hook massacre. According to their count, the United States surpassed 100 gun deaths on December 21, exactly one week after Newtown.
Other nations have experienced similar mass shootings in their histories. But nearly all have passed considerable gun safety legislation in the wake of their tragedies, which has dramatically reduced the number of future gun-related deaths.
The United States leads the world in having the most number of guns per person.
Laura Gottesdiener is a freelance journalist and activist in New York City.
End this madness!! Many things in the original Constitution are obsolete: Slavery, denying women the right to vote, the assumption of open gun availability!!
The URGENCY is to stop the shootings, NOT the open availability of guns!!
UK ASAP, MORATORIUM NOW!!!!!
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I agree with this.
We need armed guards in our schools now.
The schools can't afford to hire any more people.They are in many districts laying people off.What could be an answer is a nationwide volonteer organization to guard the schools.Thanks to our Imperial war policy,there are lots of veterans available who are civic-minded,trustworthy and trained in the use of firearms.This is a bad one-maybe things will change for the safer,somehow.
We need armed guards.
Perhaps wealthy families like the Waltons of Arkansas will create a generously funded foundation to provide the equipment and trained personnel we will need to Protect The Children in These Uncertain Times.If they don't,I'm afraid we will have to create a nationwide force of volonteers to get the job done,because the American People have NO MONEY to pay for it and we CAN'T borrow money for it either because the DEBTS WE ALREADY OWE are possibly so huge they will not be paid for AT LEAST 80 YEARS.
Yea, I'll buy that; But I want those volunteers armed.
Of course.Facebook and Twitter are at the disposal of any citizen who wishes to organize responsible gun owners to plug the breach and patriotic donors to pay for the equipment and additional insurance that will be needed.A tall order.Good Luck and May God Bless America.Obama forgot to say it at his presser on Friday.
Why? Not feeling safe all of a sudden?
I can guard myself. But these children in school can not. We need armed guards, nationwide, in every school. And then we need to start addressing the dystopia in this society.
The more important needs of your society are very far from your shores.
When over half a million children are dying because of the actions of your 1% greedy phatt pigs, and nobody cares, that points to a deep-seated malaise in your collective thinking.
Would you agree? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/418625.stm
No I would not agree and I think that's a really absurd thing to say in light of circumstances. In fact, I would call it a despicable thing to say in light of circumstances. This guy should not have gotten by the front door, the back door, the side door, or anywhere near a classroom.
And if you think that's a "deep seated malaise" then I would sincerely hope that you are not armed.
You have "armed guards" in your invasions of other nations, and blackwater has failed to stop the murder of children in countries occupied by US forces.
Your claims are not so pathetic as they are peurile.
I have never invaded another nation; wtf are you talking about?
Aaah, you're from Wales?
Then my response should have begun thusly;'
The USA has "armed guards" in their invasions of other nations, etc...........
Hell no, I'm not from Wales. Whatever gave you that idea?
Oh wait a minute... you're not from the US are ya? You're Canadian right? So your attack on our children is an attack on US foreign policy? Ok, I think I'm getting it.
So how do you feel about the US invading Canada anyway?
Seven Sisters, Wales?
I don't attack US foreign policy. There's no need to "attack" it. The corruption and criminality is evident to anyone who takes the time to research the topic.
Sorry you're not aware of that fact.
I'm sorry you as a non-American are commenting on American issues. I really do believe the North American continent should be without borders but I don't see how we can do that without revisiting old wounds.
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My concern has always been that civil disobedience, civil disturbance, civil unrest, would not only attract those borderline individuals with personality problems but also actually push them over the edge when they eventually realized the utter futility of their endeavor. Oregon was what, another Colorado? Or was this an OWS-like shooting?
Parents, too... they need to put down the marijuana and return the child rearing of a 40s and 50s lifestyle. Because we are creating these animals.
Very interesting remarks.I never did hear about an #OWS shooting.If you know of an #OWS related shooting episode that was reported in the media,we would be much obliged if you would take the time to post a link...
I'm not convinced that Colorado was NOT an OWS influenced shooting.
There is a troubling paucity of information with regard to the Aurora Shooting Rampage.I don't accept your idea that organized resistance to Tyrannical Oppression is causing or contributing to the epidemic of Shooting Rampages.I also think your idea that turning back time as a solution to societal ills is not worth considering as it is impossible.I believe you are not a genuine supporter of #OWS,and yet you don't seem like an opponant,either.As I look over my replies to posts,it seems you have many things to say to me,unlike #OWS supporters.Interesting.I am intrigued.
Well, would accept the notion that there really is relevance to the concept of a "good" society? And that our present society is anything BUT good? It's not that it's unhealthy, it's that it's diseased. The cure that most suggest is continued tolerance which equates to status quo and continued dystopia as a world where anything is permissible, even the murder of innocent children, en masse.
Everything in the world is permissible,because everything in the world has a price tag attached to it.This was not always the case,but there is NO DOUBT whatsoeveratall that it is true now,due to universal commodification which is the ultimate goal of Capitalism.
Neither capitalism nor the lack of capital has anything at all to do with our current dystopia. This began in the 60s as rebellion against establishment and falls fully on the Left.
I disagree.No more Bosses.No more Owners.No more Politicians.No more Paramilitary Police.
You merely prove my point. Sure it's nice to have more freedom, especially sexual freedom, but we don't value anything anymore. We don't humble ourselves before God or any other; we no longer value government or law, even the lives of children are no longer of value. We're all guilty of being a little bit selfish but I'd like to think we can do better, that we're better than that.
Read this please
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/debunking-the-gun-culture_b_2332088.html
http://www.thenation.com/blog/171785/occupy-nra#
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyTheNRA
Brought to YOU courtesy of the NRA, and God Bless America, etc etc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQpfQd1397E
Yeah it was interesting to see him and his ear protection. Real tough. And with every shot (non precision just shooting) his flab shook. LOL
Whatta joke. And did hereally scream "wolverines" like the movie "Red Dawn"?
LOL
I guess he's (is that you?) one of those who thinks he needs his gun to protect for some invasion (russian chinese?) Or does he think the UN is gonna take over. Or maybe he wants to over throw the US govt?
Hope he doesn't forget his widdle ear protection. Aaaaaah ha ha ha!
In any case thanks for the comedy!
What I am saying is this: two days ago they had a little over 100k subscribers: as you scream GUN BAN (as loud as you possibly can, please) watch the numbers... and then try to translate that into sales nationwide.
Gun sales? They have been way up. So what does that mean?
Is the govt overthrow comin? LOL
Whatta joke.
Money's an impatient thing; it's always on the move looking for a new home. And it's not prejudicial.
No overthrow, no civil disturbance... people just like guns and the citizen soldier, locked and loaded on the forces of evil, is an American icon.
Sounds delusional and self glamorizing.
I believe the American people like the US military heroes that have protected us for ALL of our history. And those who might attempt to overthrow our govt are called terrorists.
Did you miss that?
To the extent that I believe life experience trumps the philosophical, I am an existentialist - 100 thousand subscribers and currently growing at a rate of one thousand per day, says something... both about our love affair with bang and our opinion of our society. Green is just a reflection of subconscious desire.
Sounds great. Good luck to you in all your good efforts.
http://home.nra.org/#/nraorg
NRA has one goal, increase the profits of gun makers.
They ARE the problem.
Obama is making gun makers / dealers filthy rich. Even though they do not like the "village idiot", they are making millions because of him
It ain't cause of anything Pres Obama is doing. It's the fear mongering lies of repubs & the NRA that has scared the ignorant into wasting their money on guns.
No one is coming for your guns.!!!! LMFAO.
Here's a reason NOT to have police in schools.
http://www.nationofchange.org/los-angeles-school-police-still-ticketing-thousands-young-students-1356625062
More guns is not the answer. but ok. let's do it.
is there nothing you would support that might address preventing gunmen from getting the guns in the 1st place.?
Yea... I want a trace on the illegal flow of "weapons." I'd also like to see biological, DNA specific, trigger locks.
now ya talkin. Any gun that winds up with a criminal better have been reported stolen or the legal owner might face jail.
I just want you idiots to come to your senses.
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/message-nra-four-horsemen-apocalypse
BTW: the greatest factor in violence of most kinds is economic inequality.
Here's yet another study showing it to be so.
http://www.socialsciencespace.com/2012/01/new-study-supports-link-between-inequality-and-crime/
Yet you fight for even more of that.
So, will you come to your senses now, or tune in to another show on gun nuttery?
You can't blame economic inequality on gun owners - blame that on corrupt government.
Come to our senses? The overwhelming majority of legally owned guns in this country fall into one of two categories; they are either defense weapons or sporting guns. We don't own "assault weapons."
And it's not us that's committing the one thousand murders a week in this country.
The inequity is rightly placed on the heads of Wallstreet.
In fact all neolibe(R)tarians World wide should be held responsible.
As far as the gun nutters?
They're nuts. That's a given.
Tell me this. What need does some guy out in the sticks have for a basement full of guns?
I've met some and they are full of fear, lunacy and little else.
Others I've met that were saner, still bought more guns after reading lying BS from the NRA.
They often pass that same BS around as if it were truth. How many other guns were bought on that lie?
Look at all the BS FLAKESnews passes off.
FEAR is what drives today's gun sales.
Just FEAR.
What is it specifically that you are opposed to? Are you opposed to gun ownership? Or are you opposed to criminal behavior? It really makes no difference why people buy guns; they're buying them (legally).
Are you trying to limit the actions of criminals and nutjobs or are you only interested in disarming legal Americans?
Why does someone out in the stix have a basement full of guns? Well... generally at two of those firearms are inherited sporting guns. Additionally they will buy their own for hunting and target purposes; each has s specific purpose; I can be more specific if you like.
I've been answering your questions.
When are you going to answer mine?
Besides, I already answered that question.
Ban guns...
..For the mentally ill, ... Without registration, ... that are automatic, semi automatic, ...that are sold privately, ....for convicted violent criminals.
And put people away for life who break THOSE laws.
see how quick gun violence drops.
Sick bastard!
Why are you calling me a sick bastard?I am not advocating that people should fight back against the system by going on a shooting rampage.In,fact,I insist on being counted among those who are completely opposed to gun rampages.The American People ARE being attacked-this they know.They don't understand who is attacking them,or why,or even how this attack is being perpetrated.VQ,they really don't understand what is going on.So they are shooting.They have turned their guns on each other.Banning guns involves disarming The American People.Around here,that is what we call A Helluvadeal.Nobody really wants to get involved with the mayhem that would ensue.I assure you it would involve Martial Law and beacoups bloodshed.The only way I can think of that might help calm things down is what #OWS is doing- BUILD COMMUNITY-and get rid of Capitalism so people can't so easily fall into despair and go off the beam end with nobody even knowing they are in dire mental distress so severe that they would even contemplate murder/suicide.There are currently so many legal and illegal guns in circulation that it boggles the mind,and the problem has become so complicated that a simple solution such as the one you suggest simply won't work.
I was refering to the gunman who slaughtered the kids when I said 'sick bastard'.Not you.
Sorry about the confusion.
It really is terribly hard to think in a compassionate way about this type of offender.A similar phenomenon has been going on in the African American community for a long time.It is very common in African American communities for young men who have guns to go around shooting other African Americans who are not their enemies over scant or mistaken provocations.For a long time,I could not understand the reason-but actually the African American communities are being attacked in myriad ways,for a long time.These attacks have caused an undercurrent of extreme paranoia and fear,which is part of what is causing that epidemic of shootings.The feeling of hopelessness,despair.doom,paranoia and fear has become so intense for working class and formerly middle class people that people with personality,psychological and mental disorders are breaking down.It doesn't help that lots of people have all of the above,nobody knows,nobody cares AND there is easy access to guns-for EVERYBODY!
I think the desperation of poverty is a big part of this. I think African Americans don't usually resort to these desperate acts. (never to my knowledge) Perhaps they've dealt with it for so long they have learned to dismiss the stigma attached to poverty.
I think the new poor (those mentally unstable) who suddenly see poverty approaching might resort to these heinous acts.
Obviously I don't have any answers. I'm hearing now he killed his father in hoboken, & his mom killed at the school. Maybe they didn't love him enough.
Sick bastard that he is!
LOL-Nobody can ever love their kids enough-really,VQ-you do have an odd & amusing turn of phrase sometimes!-The shootings in the African American community may appear different on the surface-IMHO the root causes are the same.
I think most killings in urban areas (where I've always lived) is a result of drug/gang violence. Very rare is it a situation of people snapping.
Those who snap are frequently those whose expectant, comfortable, entitled, existence has been shattered in some way and the prospect of becoming that which their (non urban, non poor) society denigrates so is just too much.
And they snap, and they lash out. Maybe if there was less of a stigma attached to the poor there would be less snapping.
This sick bastard though seems to betargeting his parents so maybe they were cutting off his trust fund. I don't know.
There is a weird drug-gang mindset that I think is very similar to these gun spree killers-fear-paranoia-mental confusion-self involvement-tunnel vision.
I don't see that. but there is more death from drug/gang activity than these incidents of people snapping.
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If the shooter had Asperger Syndrome this might change the conversation we're used to.
Just think if all the Vics were Billionaires! Just think what the discussion would be then...?
I'm not sure if someone with Aspergers can be an honor student, which he was. We'll know more in a few days.
Victim = Vic, my bad
Uh, before banning guns, try developing adequate mental health care. 2nd amendment rights posters at the dailypaul.com do not seem capable of realizing how governmental/profession neglect/lawlessness prevents the logical development of mental health care which can be effective at intervention of potential extreme violence.
http://www.dailypaul.com/245587/mental-health-guns-which-comes-first
Apparently it takes a lot more brains, or perhaps (social) courage to admit that people kill people, not guns.
The lack of adequate mental health care exacerbates heat-of-the-moment actions, EASY ACCESS (to guns) is the problem!
But if you want to start providing and expanding mental health care, there are a lot of Vets that could use it! Big Time!!!
No mental health care you know of, because the APA is evading the truth of human behavior and free speech is abridged.
Americans need EASY ACCESS TO TRUTH.
If the courts and media were constitutional, before 9-11 there would have been headlines and ongoing stories about effective mental health care. There would be intervention ads on TV asking people with emotional or psychological issues to ask for treatment.
AGAIN, you have never heard of this because courts are not constitutional and media does not share truth.
Fine.
Guns aren't truth.
Guns aren't truth, they are tools designed to be deadly.
As long as we have an infiltrated government, no effective mental health care, our society is a damm free-for-all. Few are interested in reason, peace, justice rights, they only are interested in partisan politics and fringe media issues that have social buzz.
Therein, people need the defenses. Primatives with lots of dangerous knowledge.
When we have constitutional courts and congress AND effective mental health care, IF you can show the problem still exists, THEN we need to consider regulation on guns.
We're being played!
No jobs, no mental healthcare, no thorough news, but free-flowing guns and 24/7/365/every city RW hate and lie propaganda, it's a miracle we don't have 5 times as many shootings.
Funny they never happen in Country Clubs or boardrooms.
We're being played.
It really is not the gun nor it's availability - it is society - Society/People under attack - constant unceasing attack by TPTB ( yes there is such a thing - club - whatever you want to call people and corpoRATions with mad amounts of money/power/influence ) - this never ending and escalating attack on the individual the workers the middle class is a game/attack of subjugation. Society is falling apart the economy is going down the crapper - and some people ( a growing number ) are breaking under stress - killing them self - killing their family - killing strangers - as they just explode. People who do not go into this toxic meltdown/explosion generally have good connections to others who support each other and help each other to get through the rough times together. A sick and subjugated society becomes increasingly more vol-ital/violent/explosive the longer it is kept under pressure of stolen rights and imposed poverty etc etc etc etc etc eventually you have people who are willing and ready to strap a belt of explosive around their waste walk out into public and set off the explosive. You will also have a growing number of people who will recruit these individuals and set them up with the murder/suicide belt or guns or whatever.
Sound familiar?
i was going to write a comment then i saw this and couldnt agree more its society that has failed not its tools.
You needn't have said that.
no i do i think its the main driving issue in this era is the pressure that we put on everyone is just too much.
Yes, culture does the opposite, it helps people meet needs together. Society is run on economy which can be manipulated wherein society is controlled.
I agree wholeheartedly. Very perceptive comment. Isolation and desperation come partly from the constant barrage of corporations in our daily lives, empty commercialism, war profit, enriching the top and taking from the bottom relentlessly, ceaselessly. It seems to never stop. But as you know, we can stop the madness. It's possible to rebuild what's fallen down. Maybe this is a place to start, to put some guardrails up to slow the assault on humanity by corporate forces: http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-message-to-all-the-well-meaning-democrats-and-re/
Yep - there must be a starting point for each issue as well as for combined cause issues. I like your new post and will have to look into it in more detail - but right off the bat - I would have to say an emphatic - YES - stop listening to those who say we can't - and ask yourself - WHY - WHY CAN'T WE - there is nothing keeping us from going in new directions - better healthier directions - except for those odd negative little nay-Sayers - man and ain't there an army of em.
Oh yeah. Armies, navy's and air forces full of em. Jeesh. And yes, I agree. We new to look at what's possible and think outside the box. Impossible is only a word as evidenced by this photo: http://blogs.discovery.com/.a/6a00d8341bf67c53ef0168ea6a8322970c-800wi
And yes this is an actual photo, not photoshopped. Google "bird riding a bird" if interested in how this photographer got the shot of this actual phenomenon. :)
Stranger things Horatio...................
I keep waiting for the moment of epiphany when like an electric current peoples eyes fly wide open in understanding - we are all the same.
They say life gives you what you need. Perhaps what life's dishing out to people in America will eventually result in that epiphany :)
Well this shooting today that has captured massive media coverage - perhaps - perhaps - it may be a moment of awakening - the president talking about the tragedy and how no one ( in America ) should have to face such loss and tragedy - well perhaps many will agree with that statement ( as they should ) but then extend those same thoughts to other peoples around the world and fully realize - neither should they.
The president also mentioned the need for meaningful change - I hope he meant in addressing the ills in this country and those same ills around the world.
True. I just wish our president would go further and take necessary steps to stop the chain of violence.
I had just edited my comment - you read my mind:
The president also mentioned the need for meaningful change - I hope he meant in addressing the ills in this country and those same ills around the world.
Right on. Plus we have to remember that when leaders resort to violence, so to will the younger generation. We must lead by example. Can't kill civilians in drone strike at 10 am and then wonder why young person in nation reorts to violence!
Good post DKA. 'Corporate War Of Aggression'.
Hey Nevada - sad sad day - insanity erupts from broken people.
Agree. It did not have to be this way.
No - not here in the USA and not anywhere else around the world - if TPTB would just stop working against society.
The actual correlation of violence is with inequality. They go up together. We are being subjugated by poor paranoid cowards on the right using their guns and their votes (to proliferate guns) to intimidate us. It ain't working.
One element - no-doubt.
Posted by Martha Rosenberg at 10:29 am
December 14, 2012
Merry Christmas From the Gun Lobby
Once again, a nutter has cut down innocent people thanks to the easy availability of firearms and the Wild West the gun lobby has created. In a week, the shock at more carnage will be supplanted by gun lobby shills assuring the public that the occasional shooter in a movie theater, mall or school is the price we pay for a "free society" and our "gun rights." And the "violence wouldn't have happened" if the moviegoers, shoppers and students had just been armed themselves....
No carnage seems to jolt people out of their NRA trance. Christmas shoppers gunned down? TSA agent mowed down at the Cleveland Hopkins Airport by her husband who then kills himself? Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher shoots his girlfriend in front of his own mother and drives to Arrowhead Stadium to shoot himself in front of team officials? These things happen!
33 dead at Virginia Tech? 70 gunned down at Batman movie? Arizona Congressperson Gabby Giffords and Kirkwood, Missouri mayor, public works director and council members shot? It's the price we pay for our "right" to own rapid fire weapons and arsenals. Murder/suicides are happening so regularly, no one even asks anymore, "The gunman was carrying WHAT?"--or "The firearms dealer sold a weapon to WHO?"
Of course the gun lobby says the "bad guys" will get firearms regardless of laws--which is why we need to be armed. But most mass shooters are legal gun owners who sail through background checks.
Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech killer, Stephen Phillip Kazmierczak, the Northern Illinois University killer, Sulejman Talovic, the Salt Lake City's Trolley Square mall shooter and Vincent J. Dortch, the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard shooter were all legal gun owners. Talovic was a Bosnian immigrant, legally required to show a second piece of identification, but bought the murder weapon at Sportsman's Fastcash, a pawnshop chain in Utah, with just one ID, say investigators.
Jiverly Voong, who killed 13 in Binghamton, NY and Richard Poplawski, who killed three Pittsburgh police officers, both in 2009, were legal gun owners. So was Bruce Pardo, one of two shooters dressed as Santa Claus is recent years, who bought at least five firearms within five months from a single weapons dealer before killing nine on Christmas Eve in Covina, CA.
Latina Williams, the Louisiana Technical College killer who was living in her car, paranoid and delusional and giving her possessions away in suicidal gestures, walked right into a New Orleans pawn shop and bought a .357 revolver and a box of ammunition the day before the shootings. Hey, she had rights. Jennifer Sanmarco, the Goleta postal facility killer was also a legal gun owner. So were Terry Ratzmann, the Milwaukee church service killer, Chai Vang the Wisconsin hunter killer and Bart Ross, who killed a Chicago Federal judge's husband and mother. Is there anyone who can't buy a firearm?
Still, the gun lobby is not satisfied. Gun laws are still too restrictive, especially in Illinois. On the same day Christmas shopping was interrupted by a gunman at an Oregon mall, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals bowed to the lobby and said Illinois' ban on carrying a concealed weapon in public is unconstitutional. Illinois is the only state to ban conceal and carry. Make that was. END
I know how much we all hate all of the dastardly MSM.
But lets write and call them to demand that they, for the next few months, ask every politician that they interview about what they WILL DO to solve this problem & how much money they got from the NRA in 2012.
2012 Top 20 NRA contributions
Boehner, John (R-OH) $48,575
Rehberg, Denny (R-MT) $43,029
West, Allen (R-FL) $38,351
Brown, Scott (R-MA) $30,275
Bachmann, Michele (R-MN) $28,822
Heller, Dean (R-NV) $26,900
Barrasso, John A (R-WY) $23,258
Paul, Ron (R) $21,700
Coffman, Mike (R-CO) $20,200
Quayle, Ben (R-AZ) $19,600
Hartzler, Vicky (R-MO) $19,000
Noem, Kristi (R-SD) $18,235
Berg, Rick (R-ND) $16,950
King, Steven A (R-IA) $16,700
Tipton, Scott (R-CO) $16,400
Ryan, Paul (R-WI) $16,075
Thune, John (R-SD) $15,900
Schilling, Bobby (R-IL) $15,800
McConnell, Mitch (R-KY) $13,500
Renacci, Jim (R-OH) $13,400
IS THERE A PATTERN IS HERE ?
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If your suggesting that the state of the economic inequity, lack of opportunity, the pervasive hopelessness that continues to marginalize more & more people contributes to those that are driven to these brutal senseless murder suicides I would agree.
We can minimize these incidents if we correct the unfairness of our system. Clearly we define success with monetary measures, & we call the unsuccessful useless, lazy, goos for nothing.
So those on the edge mentally fall andtake as many with them as possible.
Sick bastards!
Tragic day. Our hearts just sink.
You said "We can minimize these incidents if we correct the unfairness of our system. Clearly we define success with monetary measures, & we call the unsuccessful useless, lazy, goos for nothing.". I couldn't agree more. We need to put up guardrails to protect humanity from this onslaught by corporations and materialism - how about starting with this as a small step: http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-message-to-all-the-well-meaning-democrats-and-re/
I'll check it out
We also need UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.
GREAT point. So true!!
A very real need - for a healthy society - yeah I know - but it is true never the less.
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That is part of the despair people struggle with. If I recall the colorada theatre gunman had problems in college, real college grants might have alleviated that persons despair after he flunked out.
Maybe not, I'm reaching, I have no answers.
There is not a single answer - society needs to look after it's people - care for them - not kick em out on the street. Things in this country are being run in an increasingly hostile fashion from the top on down ( real trickle down in action ) mistreating those underneath - and this shit will travel downhill - FAST - as the one mistreated - mistreats some one they have power over - and on and on down the ladder the abuse travels - hits bottom and then spreads horizontally.
Especially creating the impossible 'keeping up with the jones' mentality. The measure of value being money when jobs are fewer and lower paying.
And when you don't meet that measure of value (how much money you have) you are denigrated, you are scorned by women, by friends, family, you are labeled as weak, lazy, and assigned the blame.
A truly broken system. Producing truly broken people some of the most vulnerable break and perpetrate these horrible crimes.
Yep - waves of abuse flowing downhill - wave upon wave upon wave upon wave of abuse getting to the bottom of the hill and expanding outward through the masses. Part of the very real abuse is then dangling pretties in front of the have not's and continue to tell em how wonderful it all is and how they just gotta have it and how wonderful life is when you have it and on and on and on and on and on - at the same time keep shrinking job opportunities and wages for any job you can get - AND - sooner or later - someone explodes then someone else and someone else and on and on and on in a growing cascade of insane violence.
Stop the world I wanna get off.
WITHOUT the gun< no kids get shot!!
You think the government can keep guns off the streets? They cant even keep the drugs out of the god damn jails for crying out loud.
Just like making pot illegal only hurts the honest people who could use it for medical reasons, making all the guns illegal will only hurt the person who wants to keep criminals away from his wife and kids.
Im all for defending my family. Where you from? Ever been robbed? Beaten? Ever had your door kicked in? Ever gotten up in teh morning with kids in the house and realize all the shit is gone and you dont know if anyone is in the house? Ever gotten word that a fuckin psyco is running wild in the neighborhood?
Ever had to leave town and only your wife is in the house, scared to be by herself?
Please dont remove honest people's ability to defend their homes because the amount of FUCKING PSYCOPATHS ARE INCREASING.
And as usual, be careful what you ask the government to do, because the next guy will take and use it against you/for their own good. This should be obvious by now.
I had to buy a gun this summer because I have a true certified psychopath living next door to me who has bullied me for two years. He attacked me this past summer and that was the final straw. I called the police and bought a gun. I found out later that he had already spent time in jail for attempting to murder his wife and most recently, his dog has disappeared. I hate to think what he did to that poor dog. But I'm sure he did something because the little girl that lives with him loved that dog more than anything. I'm sure he ended that relationship. I absolutely hate having this gun in my home but the truth is, I don't feel safe at all without it anymore. Sadly, the psychopath next door has 'won'. This really bothers me and yet, I can't rely on the police to protect me in time. I feel like I'm living in in a cage, armed and waiting for him to make his next move. I wish so much I could move. If I had the money, I would have left yesterday.
Maybe the dog recognized his insanity and left of his own volition. Smart dog.
I hope your psychopath doesn't get his hands on your gun! Have you seen the stats on people being killed with their own guns?
Yes I know all about the dangers of owning guns and I'm constantly training to prepare myself for the worst. It's not something that I wanted or even believed in. I'm not a violent person or a paranoid person but I am a realist and know that the only way to keep this psycho at a distance from me is using a gun ( if necessary). The police suggested I move and they educated me about what he's capable of and have been very supportive and gone out of their way to check on me. Thanks to our corrupt criminal justice system, the man is not behind bars where he belongs for life. You simply cannot imagine what I've been through and with all the financial hardships I'm facing, I had to spend money on a surveillance system too. One thing I am very conscious of is not allowing myself to become focused on this man (my cameras do that for me) or needing this gun. I know it's here but I will not allow myself to become delusional with paranoia. I really make an effort to keep my heart free from fear and anger but I can't change the reality of what lives next door. The wonderful family across the street left after finding out who he is and they were so concerned about him retaliating that they moved out of state. How does one man manage to hurt so many people and still survive?
I hope you also carry a taser and mace one or the other should get you some time to run if you don't have the gun handy. Sorry - don't mean to add any stress to your thinking or your situation. Hope you are able to stay safe and never need to protect yourself.
I have pepper spray but that scares me even more because it can blow back on me. I never thought about a taser but honestly, I wouldn't allow him to get that close to me. Seriously.
I guess that I am preaching to the choir - but - always be aware of your surroundings - scan areas around you prior to moving into a new area - and that area before you go there and while you are traveling through it. Think of things that could possibly happen - and rehearse in your mind how you would/should react/respond - as this will help you not freeze like a deer caught in a headlight - it - the practice will set in your mind things to do - you won't waste time thinking - what should I do - you will be more likely to just DO.
That is excellent advice DK and I actually do just as you say. I wish that more folks could be catastrophic thinkers like you and I are because in reality we are more prepared for the worst that could happen. I don't think it's such a bad thing to think that way at all and THANKS for the support. This has been a really horrible situation. I even started drinking because of it ( just to calm my nerves). I'm doing alright now but I can't let my guard down. It's such a sad way to live and I wish so much that I could leave.
Glad I have not made you feel worse - but - yes - people who do not consider such things in this world in which we find ourselves - are so very unready for what may come.
1st there is the goal - then having a goal - one can look at ways to get there - one step at a time or a sudden recognition of an option. I hope your opportunity to leave presents itself to you in a very workable manner.
Was his crime against his wife in Yorktown?
It's all public info.
Really? I'd be interested in seeing that public info. Who could I see it?
What has he done that the corrupt justice system was so lenient in dealing with?
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Sounds nightmarish. maybe you should delete this description in case he sees it.
Perhaps you should invite him in and kill him. He doesn't deserve to live and then you won't have to live in fear.
Was his crime against his wife in Yorktown?
Yeah, well, wouldn't it be nice if he would just disappear? Unfortunately, I won't have and can't have any eye contact with him. I'm just hoping he will evaporate.
When does having a gun protect ANYONE from criminal breakins?
And how many people are living in fear in their homes who have never been robbed, & never will!
My apts been robbed. The apt door I live in now is NEVER locked. And I live in Crooklyn NY! I don't feel a need for a gun. And most of us in 'high crime' ny do not live in fear, orfeel a need to arm ourselves. .
Something ain't right if you 'live in fear' in Tampa. TAMPA?!?
C'mon.
My house and car has been broken into many times and it never caused me to think I needed a gun either. I guess in my case, it took something really truly frightening to make me realize that I needed something more than a 911 call to protect me. You make a really good point though about how some people who own guns become so emotionally and psychologically hinged to the gun and live on the defense all the time even when there is no present danger and they are often the ones who fly off the handle and shoot for no good reason. Owning a gun also gives people a false sense of security too.
"my house and car broken into many times" Whaaaat? How many is many? house 4x, car 5x? Where do you live.? What about your neighbors? Are they also broken into often? Cars broken into often as well?
Please tell me where this is?
average old 1960's hood. Used to be a lovely neighborhood. I've been here many years. Problem was that the elders/original owners died or moved and trash moved in. My home has been vandalized/ransacked twice and my cars get hit about 2 times a year ( kids). But even worse are the home invasions now. I used to never lock my front door. Now, it's like second nature for me to lock up everything. I don't lock my cars though because I don't keep anything of value in there anyway and I don't want a broken window. There's a reason why so many people live in gated communities or those upscale HOA hoods. I never wanted to live like that but I'm beginning to realize the benefit.
I don't think gated community is necessary or worth it.
You say "trash moved in"? That's tough. When was that? What is a vandalised/ransacked house? Is that a robbery? burglary?
I don't know what "average old1960's hood" means. Is it Yorktown va?
You must be really young. Did you ever watch Dick Van Dyke? He and Laura lived in a 60ish hood.
Trash moves into gated communities too. However, the folks like my psycho neighbor are really not the type of people who would aspire to live in a ' nicer' neighborhood where the majority of folks are professionals. He's got money but he's very tacky and trashy and besides, no one in a ritzy hood would tolerate him for long since he hates doing yard work, too cheap to hire a landscaper and he wouldn't be able to control people like he does here. No HOA would tolerate his bullying. Oh and he purchased a wife from an Asian country right after he moved in. When I moved in here, most folks were retired or young newlywed professionals moved in but then when the housing market boomed, the newlyweds moved to McMansions and sold to scum. It's now a typical blue collar neighborhood. All this progress happened during the housing boom during the GWB admin. When was that? 2001-2002?
A bunch of kids ransacked my house while I was at work looking for things to scrap for cash. They broke in through a window, tore up my entire house, trashed it and stole a lot of my things. But, what really upset me was that they took my family Bible that is over 150 years old and ripped it and then had sex on it on my bed. I know who did it because they were stupid and used my telephone. So, the cops arrested them but I never did get any of my stuff back. They didn't hurt my dog and for that I'm grateful. She was all I really cared about. Kids are one thing and these kids were not murderers- just crack heads who needed money.
So these kids did this more than once? (you said house broken into many times) Or was it another group on the other many occurances.? What did they steal? How do you know they had sex on your bible? Are you sure they didn't hurt your dog? maybe it was not something you could see..
Yeah, different criminals. Funny thing, robbers most always stole stupid cheap stuff and left the really valuable things. Obviously, they had cheap taste and poor breeding. If I were them, I would have made certain to grab the Rolex and the Elvis collection that were in the safe they blew open but they stole my piggy bank instead. You can dress them up but you can't take them out.
poorly bred, trashy, crack head, scum, undesirable, lowlife, animals.
There goes the neighborhood.
Isn't your life worth selling some of the valuable items in the safe to afford a new safe place to live?
Already sold them.
Good luck to you in all your good efforts.
Thanks V. you too.
VQ are you serious? You've got to leave Brooklyn sometime and see the real world. Recommend you take a gun with you if you're headed down to Tampa. Have you ever been there? There are a lot of bad asses there too. Murders happen there everyday! Let some of your Brooklyn boyz roll into the wrong neighborhood in Tampa and get the body bags out for them. MS13 will cap your boyz asses at the first stop light.
C'mon.
Thats funny. There are dangerous people everywhere. I doubt very much Tampa is more dangerous than brooklyn. Obviously I'm won't compete on which is more dangerous.
What I WILL say is that Tampa and in most suburbs people have been scared shitless by the exaggerated propaganda about how dangerous (cities, minorities) are, and they have become extremist, paranoids, living in fear of the coming race war, or break in. 'Everybody wants my stuff', & I got a right to protect it.
They'd be off the streets about a decade ago if the Vics were all Billionaires!!
Since you lied and said I didn't do this.
Here it is again, just for you and the rest of your gun nutter buddies.
Since you don't care enough to do it, maybe the markets will.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-monitary-gun-solution/
Wedge issue.
http://www.courant.com/news/breaking/hc-police-responding-to-incident-in-newtown-20121214,0,3969911.story
If you're so good, help make this stop.
Any ideas on how? Because Im not sure how to keep people from going crazy. And it seems to happening more often than ever. In all forms.
Create more economic opportunity, stop measuring people by how much money they make. Stop worshipping money,consumerism and start caring for those in need.
We must identify those on the edge, provide help for our neighbors.
Your turn.
It's been your turn for while now, but all you do is make excuses.
Crazy? Your State and mine both elected lying, cheating,GOP psychopaths as governor.
I long ago suggested we start there.
You responded with
LOOK!....... over there! .......Obama!
Sure - but what then as the individual looks to go out in some sort of blaze? Home made Bomb? Ingredients for which = common household items. Sure you can have a chemists approach to this and pull every thing off of the market which when mixed in combination or exposed to heat or or or or will explode - but what does that do for the areas of legitimate use?
The problem is not the guns - it is the people who use them or who use a substitute.
This is the issue or issues which need to be addressed - cure the ills of society and you very well may prevent many individuals from going crazy in this homicidal/suicidal manner/rage.
Guns are just way too easy and irreversible.
If the Vics were all Billionaires, this problem would already be HISTORY!!
Well I don't know about that - Billionaires coming up with cures for society? Makes me shudder to think of the possible cures the Billionaires would impose.
Guns would vanish, Bensdad is right on, it's money honey!! $$!!
I think it more likely that you would see a growth of wealthy armed encampments/fortresses.
You don't think we/they already see that. Part of the patriot act was a clause that include/deputize corporations as early responders. With all the freedoms/privies of law enforcement. No shit!
One of the reasons police were sooooo insanely (robocop) armed facing OWS protesters. BIG FAT police donations!
Yep - gotta keep the hired help properly equipped to repel the boarders.
Without the kids....Nah, that's as silly as saying, nothing can be done.
It wouldn't be publicized, Billionaires would just get it snuffed.
They may not be shot but they might be burned, blown-up, stabbed, poisoned, beat, run over, radiated, gassed, etc. DKA is right, it's about society. People are innovative, and if they want to kill; they will find a way. The key is to producing a safer society; is to create an environment with less stress and happier people that don't want to, or aren't driven to kill.
Easy access to guns make the heat of a moment irreversible tragedy.
We tried it, doesn't work, times UP!
the murtha building was brought down without guns. kids were killed.
9-11?
By Right wing gun nuts though right?
TO Clarify For You,............murtha building was bombed by mcveigh. kids were in that building.no guns involved. To clear up your thoughts on gun ownership, people of ALL political views own guns.
I know people of all political views own guns. I didn't say anything to the contrary! That's you blatantly mis characterizing my truthful statement.
But McVeigh and has conspirators WERE right wing gun nuts right?
Just to clarify for YOU!
"By Right wing gun nuts though right? " YOU characterized people by political affiliation. I have no idea what mcveighs politcal were if any. Do you have any proof of his political leanings?
Yeah his own words.
Read a book, or watch a documentary!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36135258/ns/msnbc_tv/t/mcveigh-tapes-confessions-american-terrorist/#.UMyh43ddATA
YOU used the phrase " right wing gun nuts".
That's right. Tell me something I don't know! Something wrong with saying right wing gun nut? That's what he & his co conspirators were! I submit their own words prove it.
Are you one of them.? Or just their defender?
mcviegh was a registered democrat.
That was a mistake. I believe his mom filled out the voter registration for him.
He was clearly a right wing gun nut. By his own words.
Is that a problem for you?
"clearly"? how so? any evidence of his mother filling out his registration?
You brought up that sick right wing wacko piece of shit. maybe you just just the fuck up about it?
Your pathetic attempt to defend this new wackos right to have guns is despicable.
Get your priorities straight. Focus your concern on gun victims, not gun owners & bombers.
im not defending anyone, .you on the other hand have an extreme case of potty mouth, and poor reasoning skills due to your inability to deal with fact.
You do not deny he slaughtered 168 people including 19 children though right?. Cause the wiki got that correct.
If anyone can contribute to wiki, maybe you should correct it for your hero.
What did find wrong in the wiki that you would correct?
"hero"? your word, never mine. you're good enough at fiction to be a dem/progresive/ lib. the point was ,...mcveigh murdered men , women and children without the use of a gun.
Arm the kids?
Arm teachers?
At the White House vigil, a protester carried a sign, “If a pre-school child hits another child with a rock, the solution is not for every child to have a rock!”
teach them how to use guns and arm them.
How about grenades? Maybe we should distribute grenades to the student body.
The mother was sleeping? And the teachers would've been teaching. not patrolling. You're wrong. No gaurantee the teacher would have gotten their machine gun out fast enough to stop the shooter.
now maybe if every 6 year had their own glock! That would've done it.
You support that? you gun nutter.
vqkag2 = #1 pin up idiot of ows.
"If only a teacher had a gun"??????? Whaaaaaaaat?
You mean like the shooters mother? No wait. She had many. Didn't help 4 bullets in the head from her own gun.
Anything else moron?
thats right, if the teachers were armed, any of them could have shot and killed lanza. p.s. lanzas mother was sleeping when he shot her.
Ban ALL guns from mentally ill, and violent convicted criminals.. ALL assault weapons, Prosecute any negligent citizens who know of a violation.
Stop defending the killers of our children. Start defending our women & children!
if any of the teachers in the school had a gun they could have defended the kids and themselves. any type of gun/rifle is an "assault " weapon.
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So you didn't read the wiki? Perhaps you already know the wacko motherfuckers history and can tell me what was untrue in the wiki.
You do not deny he slaughtered 168 people including 19 children though right?. Cause the wiki got that correct.
anyone can provide " information" to wiki. oh , by the way, mcveigh came from an AWU family, 52 years worth.
Yeah it was in the biography. no matter. read his history. Right wing gun nut from way back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
Sorry. It is what it is. Is there something wrong with him being a right wing gun nut? Why are you so adamant he wasn't.?
wikipedia is not a recognized source for anything .
Educate yourself but this info appears accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
Dk makes a very important point about the character of our society. The bottom line is that just because we have access to anything doesn't mean that we should have it, need it or should abuse it or use it to harm ourselves or others. There were folks who complained that they were in debt because the credit card companies kept increasing their spending limits or issuing new cards. The problem is not the cards, the problem is the individual's decision making.
Another issue contributing to our poor character and mass shootings are psychotropic drugs. At the time Columbine occurred, I knew then that we would see a dramatic increase in school shootings and family homicides. Not only is our character in the toilet but so are our minds, medicated to the hilt with psychotropic medications that numb the frontal cortex, giving rise to erratic behaviors by people who have no ability to reason and understand consequences. GWB started this medicating trend and it has soared since 9-11. It's become socially acceptable to lack a conscience because it's easier than trying to do the right thing in such a f'd up world. It's much easier to not care about life and all that it encompasses. But in the natural order of this world, no one gets a free lunch and there will always be negative consequences for taking the easy way out.
The only way to wipe out guns is to wipe out the human belief that one needs them. In other words, when a society loses reverence for any part of life, they lose reverence for all of life. It's much easier that way but oh what a price we pay.
We have to be much more proactive than that.
Imagine what would happen if all the Vics were Billionaires...
Now, let's do THAT!!!!
A maturing of society that address the maturing of the individual as just a matter of course - because you can be a mature individual but not necessarily live in a mature society. The sane must run the asylum.
yes, so true but I'm feeling a bit out-numbered at the moment.
Yeah - I am so sorry for your situation - take care of your self - be/stay alert aware.
Did the same thing happen during the 'Great Depression"? I don't recall anyone talking about mass murders back then but maybe you might.
Seems to me those people were under more stress then this country could ever imagine and they didn't go around killing the masses because they were stressed.
Babyface Nelson, Machine gun Kelly, Dillinger, people were shooting machine guns in the street. Innocent people hit all the time.
We are not talking about "organized crime" we are talking about the society as a whole back then.
That wasn't organized crime, although organized crime was running rampant due to prohibition.
As long as people have had weapons they have been destroying each other, with 'logical reason' or senseless killing. There was nothing special going on in the past.
Lot of suicides. Also consider how many just died from WWI and the Influenza. People had to be careful about the hobos ( the homeless of those days ) as yes some drifters did commit murder then hop on a train and ride the rails to somewhere else. Besides communities were still communities back in that time - not people moving out and moving in on a daily basis all over the country - NO - stable communities that stayed pretty much the same - someone dies of natural causes someone is born a family comes to settle down and start their roots because they know someone there that told em about an opportunity to get "settled". The world/society has changed an awful lot since those days.
Yes indeed our society has changed - so the question is "how do we fix it"?
I think one of the big problems that is not being mentioned here is "perscription drugs". A report was recently done on a town - I think it was in SC and 40% of the residents were on some kind of "perscription drug".
If people want to take away guns from those who own them then they first have to get rid of violence.
What a lot of people don't understand about gun owners is that the vast majority who own them are responsible. There are over 300 million guns in this country according to MSNBC. FBI estimates over 200 million owned by private individuas some of whom own more then 1 firearm.
So, is owning a gun the issue or is it the mental health of our society that is the real issue here?.
It is not the gun - it is the individual - along with growing violence in a sick society - there is also - real growing sickness. Constant pressure and uncertainty and struggle to meet each day is a contributor - to health care costs as well as prescription drug use. Back in the 50's prior to tighter regulation it was commonly referred to as mothers little helper = Valium.
Anyway a sick society is a breeding ground for all manner of ills.
And it all starts at home and in school. I am not sure how old you are but when I was growing up we never had to have "designer clothing" to impress our fellow schoolmates nor did we have an IPOD to take to school nor a computer. We had a mother and father to come home to who were responsible for us.
And if we didn't have a mother or father, we had a grandmother as back up.
Even though society is fragmented - single parent household - no backup the problem lies with trying to maintain a standard that lots of people can't afford.
I know families at present that go to goodwill to shop, thrift stores and anywhere else they can purchase low cost items.
They don't do it because they can't afford more expensive items, they do it because they are frugal - and you know what they are very happy.
I am not sure how much income they make - probably combined husband/wife - $50,000 maybe $60,000 a year with 3 children.
All the children are respectful, don't demand things and when they do get something from someone they cherish it.
So, I think this is another problem our society has to deal with that needs to be changed.
My mom made many clothes - dresses for my sisters - I wore my brothers hand me downs and my younger brother got my hand me downs. There was a toddlers red insulated snow suit that we all wore in our own time from my oldest sister to my younger brother. I collected bottles and returned them for the deposit for spending money. Those were different days - days when even poor a family could have one parent ( Mom ) afford to stay home and do sewing and other things while raising the kids.
YES that is so true. But, that was maybe before so many women entered the professional work force??? I think that companies began paying both men and women a lot less once we were all working together. After all, they get more workers for just about the same price as what they were paying one man.
Business used the increased work force in their ( business ) favor - same as today at this very point in time. Plenty of workers - now you workers are gonna want jobs - SO - I am gonna reduce what I am willing to pay for labor for workers of every calling/application - because if you don't like it if you do not want to work for what I am willing to pay - WELL THEN - quit and go somewhere else where a 1000 or so people are trying to get hired for the single open position.
Just heard this very ' devolved' comment about the shooter's mother from another citizen: " She decorated and kept a very pristine house...she was just like any other housewife".
Well, that certainly describes Beaver's mom but I'm not so sure it tells us anything about her character or why she would need three semi-auto weapons.
Yep - housewife(?) really(?) how backward is that person who made that comment? Kept a meticulous house and - OH - her weapons - so clean - so well maintained. WTF?
Oh gosh, I'm actually laughing at your comment ;D As I recall, she wasn't even a housewife but apparently it's become fashionable to be one.... I'm having visions of ' Housewives of Newton"???? You load the truck and I'll be there ready to film the first episode. Just think D, we could be zillionaires by week's end.
That's a horrid thought - zillionaires are socially challenged aren't they? I was just wondering if this town might be going step-ford and she had the guns to keep from being replaced.
That's a horrid thought - zillionaires are socially challenged aren't they? I was just wondering if this town might be going step-ford and she had the guns to keep from being replaced.
I'm socially challenged now so I wouldn't notice any change ( except the extra change in my pocket) hahahaha Stepford did cross my mind but then I thought, ' Maybe she's a republican and wanted to be more like Sara Palin". ????? I was being half serious though...women and young girls want to be like the Housewives of Orange County or New York and I heard that some schools have even implemented classes in schools for girls who have become so back-stabbing aggressively competitive that they need some sort of therapy. It's really disgusting.
What the hell ever happened to the drive to find and understand each other - to become as fully equal as the differences in hardware allow ( the hardware being - then - the only difference - but no big deal - it is what it is ) The perpetuation of greed over people is killing us from growing as human beings. People should have choice as to what they would like to pursue as a life "style" - but they should not be molded into strictly defined parameters. A living wage for all could alleviate so many restrictions roadblocks for people to have healthy prosperous lives of their own choosing.
Society is under attack.
Will we rise above all the BS at this point in time?
It was the same way when I was growing up also - I bought my first daisy pump bb gun with deposits from soda bottles - also used to sew my own clothing.
Yes times were different back then - and people didn't feel they needed everything they saw when they visited Wool Worths or Zayrer deparmtnet stores - they lived within their means.
Which leads me to say that "commercial advertising" caused a lot of societies problems - look at the ads on todays boob screen.
those ads used to be directed towards baby boomers now they are directed towards the X, Y and melinimum generation - the ads are designed to make them feel good about themselves if they buy the advertised product.
One question that people do need to ask themselves is - why do they always have to do something or buy something to make themselves feel good about themselves. Why can't that just be natural with them - too much brainwashing I suppose?
Concerted decades long assault by business waged by pr firms campaigns fed by programming on tv that started showing all of the neat little must have items while father new best or Ozzy and Harriet were out to see Mr. Douglas and his three sons and on and on in an ever accelerating program of get the audience hooked - parents to smart for that? slid it in under their radar to the kids - give up on the parents you say? - NO - Hell no - just gotta hook em differently more subtle - then when we got em hooked - turn up the heat and pour it on. Get em to Dream Jeannie get em to dream.
Yea but they're only doing this because it's successful. And I think you'll probably find that in this particular case, there were no serious economic issues.
Shayneh wrote: "One question that people do need to ask themselves is - why do they always have to do something or buy something to make themselves feel good about themselves. Why can't that just be natural with them - too much brainwashing I suppose?"
Yes, but there is also confusion about needs compared to wants, and the abridging of free speech means that reasonable citizens cannot have an effect on this dysfunction.
Its worse than DKAtoday indicates. It did start in the late 50's, post WWII beginning the overt cold war. Then by 1980 a division of academia called "semiotics". Like "semantics", the meanings of words, "semiotics" is the meanings of symbols. Basically as far as human responses, everything. This I feel was a division of psychology and sure enough, there is a link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
Academia serving corporate interests instead of humanity.
I like this statement and it rings true today:
In Propaganda (1928), Bernays argued that the manipulation of public opinion was a necessary part of democracy:
The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society.
Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.
This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ..
In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses.
It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.[15]
Explaining the warped reasoning of those promoting the post "dumbing down" society.
Shayneh wrote: "In Propaganda (1928), Bernays argued that the manipulation of public opinion was a necessary part of democracy:"
First prevent a real opinion, then replace the vacuum with what opinion is desired in the people.
Hi Shayneh, I've been reading your comments with Rayolite and I must say that both of you ( in my opinion) have more wisdom about the true problem in our civilization than I've read on here. Everyone else seeks the immediate band-aid but we have a much deeper problem that is fueling the violence, the excessive greed and the other character flaws that are degrading our society.
The American Psychological Association is so unbelievably hinged to so much of the mind control in this country. The medications that people take are contributing to the violence and excessive spending. Psychology capitalizes on disorders that are not even medical diseases. Do a little research on TMAP ( Texas Medication Algorithm Project). Does Texas ring a bell? It's not a coincidence that SSRI drug sales soared after 9-11. There's also the children's TMAP.
Since we have tried nothing that people have thought of and the people with their gun shaped pacifiers have been screaming,"Don't try anything because it won't work." why don't we just try everything? Then, in five years, we can start discontinuing those that don't look like they worked and if things start getting worse they automatically (triggers) come back?
The right to life, liberty (EXCEPT THINGS THAT MAY HURT OTHERS) and the pursuit of happiness and full equality (under the law) are ideas we haven't fully tried. Now is a good time.
Instead of trying nothing, as we have done for decades, lets try everything for decades?
Make muzel loaded musket only legal arms for civilians.
People with other arms should trade in for a musket, or 2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket
That was the arms envisioned by founders.
Gun Moratorium!!!
Sort it out in time, when things are straight, when we figure things out... later
Good idea.
Again, we aren't being represented.
Trace back to the people who sold the offending weapon and hold them financially and morally liable.
And in my opinion they owe me compensation for mental anguish at each national gun tragedy
Where are the representatives? In the lap of NRA?
The NRA has now established itself as a THOROUGHLY DERANGED lobbying outfit.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/bowling-for-columbine/
Wow - OH My God - Look at all of the bloody dead - from one individual - who went ballistic - who killed his mom then went on a rampage killing children.
Has anyone stopped to consider?
Yes this is an absolutely monstrous sad cruel needless senseless insane killing spree.
But. BUT!!! Have any of you stopped to consider the Media frenzy blitz coverage of this horrible event? Multi network full non-stop coverage of a bloody incident in a small town with complete programs to follow-up with continuing coverage today. Everyone who could possibly carry this tragedy in as full a manner as possible considering the short time frame from incident to sending coverage out over the mass media channels - was giving full coverage to something that no one can do anything about.
Think about this for a second.
This is a very sad horrifying event - but - just as bad events are happening all around the world - daily - many committed by drones - many committed by other insane individuals.
Unless this unprecedented tv coverage was to point out the fact that our society ( ies ) are sick and failing and are generating mad violence as they nose dive into the ground. To what purpose this intense news coverage?
It is not about guns - it is about individuals going ballistic - killing family killing strangers then killing themselves.
This is only one - ONE - incident carried out by an individual who snapped. Many people are killing many other people on a daily basis - because they snapped.
Heal society ( ies ) and you will greatly reduce the number of individuals who snap and go on killing sprees.
Just sayin.
Think about it.
Now do we continue to address the ills of society(?) all of them(?) or do we let this side track the efforts to heal this society this World.
Thom Hartman calls it "Tragedy Porn."
And this is the first time MSM has been allowed to mention gun control, and psychological healthcare needs, there's a lot of built up tension.
People need to be upset to do anything. It's the premise of protesting. Get the people aware and riled up. OWS did that for a brief moment.
We need to USE THE MOMENTUM before it dies... again!
hunting rifle fine, shootgun sure, revolver alright, if your gun has a clip it needs to go bye-bye and so do hollow point bullets. i would have no problem with a well regulated militia having these weapons as per constitution but regular people don't need them on their person or in their home.
careful tylerdurden just got banned from ows chat for stating that "In one day, in one classroom, one American just GUNNED down more fellow citizens than the last 3 years of gun deaths in japan combined." by the nra spokesperson and mod agnosticnixie.
That's a terrible fact and equally bad reason for being banned!
yes they need to fix the mods in chat they seem to be libertarian idiots not ows supporters.
Bill Moyers: We’d All Be Packing Heat If the NRA Had Its Way
Even life and death are measured by profit margins, so the organization's cure for gun violence shouldn't surprise.
January 4, 2013 |
From BillMoyers.com:
We wrote and spoke about guns just a few days before Christmas, following the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut. So did Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association. His now infamous, “no questions” press conference was the most stunning, cockeyed one-man show since Clint Eastwood addressed that empty chair at the Republican National Convention.“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” he pronounced.
LaPierre might well have plagiarized his vision of a wholly armed nation from another “man of the people” of 40 years ago, the protagonist in the famous sit-com “All in the Family.” On a 1972 episode, when a local TV station comes out in favor of gun control, Archie Bunker hits the airwaves with an editorial rebuttal:
Good evening, everybody. This here is Archie Bunker of 704 Hauser Street, veteran of the big war, speaking on behalf of guns for everybody. Now, question: what was the first thing that the Communists done when they took over Russia? Answer: gun control. And there’s a lot of people in this country want to do the same thing to us here in a kind of conspiracy, see. You take your big international bankers, they want to — whaddya call — masticate the people of this here nation like puppets on the wing, and then when they get their guns, turn us over to the Commies … Now I want to talk about another thing that’s on everybody’s minds today, and that’s your stick-ups and your skyjackings, and which, if that were up to me, I could end the skyjackings tomorrow … All you gotta do is arm all your passengers. He ain’t got no more moral superiority there, and he ain’t gonna dare to pull out no rod. And then your airlines, they wouldn’t have to search the passengers on the ground no more, they just pass out the pistols at the beginning of the trip, and they just pick them up at the end! Case closed.
Case closed. Except that Archie Bunker’s a fictional character created by Norman Lear, who knew better. Not Wayne LaPierre — he’s real and he means business. Big business.
Every time we have another of these mass slayings and speak of gun control, weapon sales go up. And guess what? As journalist Lee Fang reports in The Nation, “For every gun or package of ammunition sold at participating stores, a dollar is donated to the NRA.” Customers can make a contribution at the point of purchase or the gun companies make an automatic donation every time the cash register rings. Last year, just one of those merchants of death, Midway USA, used one of these NRA programs to give the gun lobby a million dollars.
So naturally, in a country where even life and death are measured by the profit margin, the cure for gun violence is, yes, more guns! Bigger profits. Never mind that just before LaPierre spoke, three were shot and killed outside Altoona, Pennsylvania. Or that early on Christmas Eve morning, in Webster, New York, two volunteer firemen were called to the scene of a fire, then executed by an ex-con who allegedly set the blaze and murdered them with the same kind of assault rifle used against those school kids and their teachers in Newtown. Or that on New Year’s Eve, in Sacramento, California, reportedly in a fight over a spilled drink, a 22-year-old opened fire in a bar, killing two and wounding two others. In fact, according to Slate.com and the Twitter feed @GunDeaths, at this writing, in just those few weeks since the Newtown slaughter of the innocent, more than 400 have died from guns in America. That should boost the last quarter profit margins. Not surprising, the merchants of death are experiencing a Happy New Year.
We have to keep talking about this, because Wayne LaPierre and the NRA will keep talking and they are insidious and powerful predators. Have you seen the reports in both the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) and the Washington Post of how, 16 years ago, the NRA managed to get Congress to pull funding on gun violence studies at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention? Since then, JAMA reports, “at least 427,000 people have died of gunshot wounds in the United States, including more than 165,000 who were victims of homicide. To put these numbers in context, during the same time period, 4,586 Americans lost their lives in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Last year, Congress stopped the National Institutes of Health from spending any money that might be construed as advocating or promoting gun control. There’s even a section that was snuck into President Obama’s Affordable Care Act that prevents doctors from collecting information on their patients’ gun use. Denise Dowd, an emergency-care physician in Kansas City and adviser on firearms issues to the American Academy of Pediatrics, told the Post, “This illustrates the fact that the NRA has insinuated themselves into the small crevices of anything they can to do anything in their power to prohibit sensible gun-safety measures.”
As Wayne LaPierre’s brazen call for an armed populace makes clear, the odds don’t favor common sense. Several members of the new Congress are reintroducing bills that would change the gun laws and USA Today reports that the White House is “likely” to issue its recommendations January 15, but there are always those legislators willing to do the gun lobby’s bidding as they profess their love of the Second Amendment and wait like hungry house pets for the next NRA campaign donation.
Every American packing heat is a frightening vision of our future. It doesn’t have to be, if only we stop and think. That’s what a fellow named Frank James did. He stopped, thought — and changed directions. A pawn shop owner in Seminole, Florida, whose youngest child is six, Frank James told a local ABC station he has decided to stop selling guns.
“It’ll probably cause my business to go out of business because it was a big part of it, but I just couldn’t live with myself,” he said.” I thought, wow, this is crazy. As a gun dealer myself, I’m like, yes, we need more gun control. Guns are getting into the wrong hands of the wrong people.” He also said, “I’m not going to be a part of it anymore. Conscience wins over making money.”
Thank you, Mr. James.
Veteran journalist Bill Moyers is the host of “Moyers & Company,” airing weekly on public television. Check your local listings. More at www.billmoyers.com
Michael Winship is senior writing fellow at Demos and a senior writer of the new series, Moyers & Company, airing on public television.
The gun nuts are fucking crazy and deranged ~ ENOUGH!
OK, I got it. It isn't that.we have too many guns, we have too few people. Let see, how many people do we need? Immigration reform, that's why it is so important. No wait, if we got all of the people would that be enough? And how long would the food stamp and voting lines be then? We would have to do it quickly because the NRA would be trying to arm them
In the United Kingdom firearms are tightly controlled by law, and while there is opposition to existing legislation from shooting organisations[citation needed], there is little wider political debate, and public opinion favours stronger control. The British Shooting Sports Council now believes that the law needs to be consolidated but it does not call for a review. The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world with 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009 compared to the United States' 3.0 (over 40 times higher) and to Germany's 0.21 (3 times higher).
Time for us in the US to join them in the UK and shed this Wild West mythology ball and chain.
The NRA made it clear that they are a THOROUGHLY DERANGED organization, and dealing with them is futile. MORATORIUM!!!
Gun lovers say, "If a killer wants to kill someone and you take his gun away, he will just get something else to kill with."
And I say, "Let him try.""
Here is a possible compromise. The second amendment doesn't say anything about ammunition storage. It does really say anything about guns either for that matter. There has been a lot of discussion about the high capacity clips and clearly they were banned without being successfully challenged Constututionally. In any case, here is one which allows people to keep their guns.
Simply ban ALL ammunition storage clips/magazines. Any capacity. Semiautomatic weapons all use clips. Real machine guns normally use belts, but some also use clips or magazines.
Banning clips would make all semiautomatic rifles and handguns unable to rapidly fire a large number of shots. Many of them could fire a single round, hand loaded. Check your marksmanship? Sure, go ahead. Fantasize scenarios most of us would not want to contemplate? Do it.
Revolvers? Still OK. Some .22 caliber revolvers shoot 9 times. Yes, they can switch cylinders so nothing gets everyone where they want to go. But for those who would like to reduce the rate of fire and the limit to how many shots can be fired before the cops show up. it moves the ball in the right direction.
Pass legislation and all clips are immediately illegal. Buy back programs would be much cheaper. It is a start.
Good Ideas.
Sirhan Sirhan shot RFK with a .22...
Many probs
Let's go for a Moratorium on guns! No urgency, no loss, might save lives!
Nothing is fool proof because they just keep discovering better fools.
He shot ONLY RFK, not 25 others, and there were at least 26 others present.
What we are trying to improve is the odds that our children and some of us preserve the right to life, liberty and some shred of happiness. I think governments are instituted among men, and women, to secure these ends and if we can't do a reasonable measure of that we will have failed in this experiment and will have to embark on the next. Around the globe, even with numerous other failed experiments to learn from, it appears that the odds of doing so aren't very good.
Un sure! nothing-deaths-wouds!!!
Mega Sure!
Moratorium, No need for more guns and ammo trumping safety!y!
Mother Jones
A Guide to Mass Shootings in America
There have been at least 62 in the last 30 years—and most of the killers got their guns legally.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map
IN DEPTH: The Five Components Of American Gun Violence If you think the problems with gun violence in America are simply because of the guns, you need to look again.
http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=10651854
FACT CHECK: Stacks Of Gun Facts
Tired of running into ignorant people who don't know the real facts about gun violence in America? Find the answers here.
http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=10652140
In stead of kvetching here - which makes YOU feel better -
there are 26 angels begging you to DO SOMETHING -
conact your congressman -
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
just enter your zip code
DEMAND new gun control laws
strict penalties
license all owners
register all guns
background checks
liability insurance
If the choice is either guns or Repelicons, I guess I would choose guns. Why, you may ask? Guns are not insane and, after all, guns don't kill people.............ammo does. I am confident that most of the ammo is owned by Repelicons also.
By the way, have you ever tried to buy dynamite? It didn't exist before the Civil War The semiautomatic pistol wasn't invented until 1893, so the founders didn't know about it, either. Why should you be able to get automatic pistols easier than dynamite?
How do you get dynamite? You first get a federal explosives license. You will need to prove three things: that you are a good person, that you need the license for professional reasons, and that you have a safe, secure place to store your explosives before you use them. After you have this, you contact an explosives supplier who will sell you the explosives you are licensed to have--if you are licensed to have water gel slurry explosive and not dynamite, you can't buy dynamite.
Now that seems sensible doesn't it?
I heard a caller on Thom Hartman's show (http://www.thomhartmann.com/tv) say that there was an event in China where someone attacked a number of people with a knife (not a gun) which therefore meant that it's not guns! When Thom noted that no one was killed, the caller pivoted to the Oklahoma City bombing!! What was it that they used, fertilizer? Any restrictions on that?
If I'm not mistaken, the constitution guarantees militias with muskets. Not Bushmasters!!
I heard part of that. Apparently not a hollow point knife. Yep, good old potassium nitrate fertilizer, and yep again. if you aren't known as local farmer, you attract a lot of attention. I believe registration in advance is required. And if you ask for the silencer option, they start looking at you all suspicious like.
Be suspicious...
Is it possible to reach a consensus on gun control? I'd like to live in a gun free world but I believe we have to compromise on this. Anything that can be reloaded quickly seem like too much. Banning anything besides hunting rifles, shot guns and revolvers makes sense to me. I know this is a band-aid solution but it's more reasonable than what the dems are going to go with. They will propose reducing the number of rounds allowed in a clip. I say no clips(magazines) period.
2 year moratorium first until we sort it out and audit what we have!!
The hobby of a few does not get to endanger the many!
Stop trying to be creative about this and just do the right thing. No dem/repub BS.
No moratorium. Stop making it easy for wackos to shoot dozens or hundreds of rounds and get rid of these semi-automatic weapons now.
Ammo, too!
“MY” gun control law - fundamental, SIMPLE based on drawing a parallel between cars & guns
If you want to argue that we don’t have a constitutional right to own a car – and we have a right to bear arms, frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn. You do not have a legal right to bear a tank or bazooka or automatic machine gun.
consider these two cases
1 you leave your locked car parked on the street – someone steals it, hot wires it and uses it to murder someone – are YOU legally responsible ?
2 you leave your unlocked car parked on the street – with keys in the ignition – someone steals it, and uses it to murder someone – are YOU legally responsible for your negligence?
Here is my proposal for a NATIONAL gun law:
All procedure fees will be priced to be very profitable
All present guns and owners will be covered by these laws
1 all gun owners must be licensed and tested with all guns that they own and
a written test to guarantee the owner's understanding of gun laws
2 every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance & be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used .
3 as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.
4 every gun must be registered and tested - and sample fired bullet stored
........................................................what do you think ? ........................................................what can we do - that CAN be done ?
▬►▬►▬►▬►▬►▬►▬►,,,,,,,,WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN & SENATORS !!!!!!!
You left off banning southern parenting
Yes! Send them ( your Rep or Sen) a POST CARD!!!
Agree, BUT:
They are going to tear down that school over this, no kid or parent will ever want their kid to attend there, bad spirits.
CONCURRENTLY
2 year moratorium on guns and ammo sales and trades!!
Then after your plan a Psychological Analysis.
Restrict and regulate the operations and access to Congress by NRA, Norquist, Rove, PACs and Lobbyists.
There were six adults killed and 21 kids get your numbers strait. The other shooters like Columbine and Viginia Tech were all on powerful psychotropic prescription medications. Was he on drugs? Homocidal rampages are only possible from people in a deep state of chemically induced paranoia psychopathology. I also think that the over prescription of psychotropic drugs are the equivalent of mass chemical lobotomization of the poor by the rich to keep them in their wretchedness. An unfortunate side effect of these drugs is that it turns them from feeling empathetic human beings into numb zombi-like sociopaths capable of mass killings. Now people clamor for taking away our ability to oppose oppression? must be some bad joke right? You gotta google the 'deacons for defense man.'
Keep guns away from sickos! 2 year moratorium until we figure it out!!
please sign this petition to reinstate the Federal Assault Weapons Ban!
http://wh.gov/RHpR
Please sign this petition to reinstate the Federal Assault Weapons Ban!
http://wh.gov/RHpR
In addition to one gun per person, everyone should have the same gun. This could be a stimulus and crime prevention initiative combined:
Offer $1000 to citizens for every gun turned in.
Mass produce a gun for licensed owners and make it the only legal model. The gun should only hold 3 bullets.
Prosecute anyone in possession of any other model/type of firearm.
Keep only a few of each kind of gun for museums, and destroy/recycle the rest.
Offer fair market value for collectible guns.
No, muskets, the constitutional gun.
There is no defense against madness. You may be able to alter the body count by eliminating guns, if there was support for such an amendment.
Imagine if the victims were wealthy, they seem to be the only worthy cause to do anything!
Like a Kennedy? There is still massive opposition to gun control and simple control isn't enough. There isn't support for a total ban and probably never will be. Without that there will always be someone with the desire to get and misuse a gun.
2 year moratorium, tests, evals, restrictions and regs thereafter.
I'd recommend making it a felony to use guns for anything enjoyable. No hunting, no sport. The only reason to have a gun should be for self defense. Ok to use them at a practice range and only allow one per person, registered. Being in possession of more than one gun should be as illegal as selling them illegally.
It's time for people to give up their freedom to collect and show them off. Give up real live hunting. Just sacrifice it. Give it up. It's barbaric and senseless. One gun is plenty. Killing wildlife for fun is just stupid. There are video games for that. There is plenty of food at the store.
Use them in this Class War we are losing and watch them vanish before your 99% eyes!!
This is a bizzarre story. The shooter shot his own mother and he was mentally disabled. I assume his mother was the one trying to take care of him. His brother may be the only one left to shed some light on what happened. His brother was also accused of being the shooter at first. I wouldn't blame him if he sues some people.
[Removed]
Guess it's time to get serious.
How about life in prison for the last documented owner of a gun used in a crime ? How about a fund to buy high capacity magazines, right after making selling and owning them illegal? The answer isn't, we can't do anything. The answer is, we built this problem and we have to disassemble it a piece at a time, in as many ways as we can think of.
Only cowards believe they need guns (outside of military and law enforcement). I don't and you don't. And the people who are responsible for the proliferation of guns need to be held accountable and required to fix it. They can tell us all kinds of talking points that tell us what won't fix it and that it can't be fixed.
How about this: Gun owners you have until January 1, 2014 to have a solution to this problem or the ATF will be staffed up and will do house to house searches and will search every car and truck at every traffic stop until all guns are rounded up. Violators with guns after that date will be fined $100,000 and will receive 5 year mandatory jail terms.
Of course you know that the scenario you lay out is the WET DREAM of the militia, gun nuts out there. Ruby Ridge, Wacko!! Now they can live this at home!!? Are you kidding?
It would be sadistic cruelty to put ATF through something like that.
Moratorium on guns and ammo sales. But these freaks have stock piles, and they make their own bullets. We have got to start somewhere. Volunteer gun returns, to start. End the death penalty, these terrorists have a DEATH WISH! Automatic Life with tofu, science and Randi Rhodes podcasts!
You are correct as usual. See my post just above re the 2nd. I guess I am losing my patience and unfailing good humor. Just so some nitwits with paranoia a little less severe than the shooter, can have their toys. Should have kept their pacifiers.
Cowards need guns, extreme cowards use them.
The hobbies of a few should not be allowed to endanger and kill the many!!
Well said.
Thanks but, let's get some good action!
That is much needed, I agree.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Man-assaulted-woman-raped-in-strongarm-robbery--179050161.html
If they hadn't had guns they might not of had the confidence to force their way in, right? I'll bet that homeowner has nevver choked to death more than a dozen people at one time.
Have you ever read the 2nd amendment of the BOR?
Actually, my ancestor signed the deal (as a member of the General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Company) forming the first militia in 1636 and was a Captain of one of the first 13 militias formed under it. Another ancestor was a part of Shays's Rebellion that caused the first 12 Amendments to be written, 10 passed and subsequently were ratified.The 2nd was necessary to get some states who were still mad at others who were so poorly prepared for the the war to ratify it. So you are going to lecture me on the meaning of militia and the rationale for number 2 right? Sure, some were concerned (many of them slave owners who were worried about the feds outlawing their labor source) about the feds overriding state governments and other worried that since Virginia's militia had zero guns and other colonies had less than half of their militia armed with guns at the beginning of the war of session from Britain (They had halberds and clubs and wooden pitchforks and so were essentially worthless) that they didn't do their share. So, REQUIRING individuals and colonies (states) to provide arms that they couldn't afford and didn't actually obtain in time for the War of 1812, were motivation factors among others, including worrying about the US Air Force (joke) bombing insurrections like Shays's into submission.
Let me know how your favorite insurrection goes.with Glocks and Bushmasters. Yes, I have heard of the second amendment and it was never intended to make it this easy to massacre children. Might get Scalia to read a little history from the original documents before embarrassing himself, again.
men , women and childrn have owned guns, rifles, shotguns, all throughout the history of america. nothing prevented anyone at any time to participate in any sort of mass killing. gun ownership does not equal being a mass murderer. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
"A well regulated militia", read "National Guard." I am sure knowing today's technology they would have phrased it more clearly for those who are trying to misinterpret it. I'll take returning to flintlocks and matchllocks as a step in the right direction. The halberds that were THE MOST COMMON ARMES of colony militias would of course be preferred If you aren't familiar, they were the pike poles with the hatchet looking heads on them. Not many mass murders committed with them.
Your boat never leaked, until it did. Then you had to change what you were doing to stay dry. When you have a problem, fix it instead of crying that you never had it before. Easy to ignore the problem when it isn't your dead child that exposes it.
No, thats your interpretation. every adult male citizen was considered to be part of the " well regulated militia". The second comma in the 2nd amendment is important. it establishes and guarantees the right of the people to own guns.
If your interpretation is correct, which it isn't, then the regulation of every adult male (interesting that changing that to include women and children is OK) is required and it is completely in the purview of Congress to include or exclude any weapon or meet any other requirement they decide. But it can not be unregulated and regulated at the same time. So, Congress, regulate away Free speech is also quaranteed, and regulated.
The language which derived from the Articles of Confederation was clearer there and discused in contemporaneous writings. Just remember the same Supreme Court ruled that George Bush would be harmed if all of the votes were counted. And Gore wasn't harmed by the incomplete count?
Militia W/muskets, that's all you fools get!!
the 2nd amendment says the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. it does NOT mention muskets.
As we noted recently, the availability of guns isn't the only factor in America's gun violence problem. It is the component that's been the most lied about though, often through the vast propaganda tools of the lobbying group that is the NRA.
So as a public service, we've collected and corrected some of the most common lies about guns, and provided the correct information, below.
Lie: Mass shootings don't really happen that often. It just seems like it because of the media.
Truth: The number of mass shootings has actually risen significantly over the last 30 years.
Since 1982, there have been 62 mass murders carried out with firearms, across America, where 'mass murder' is defined as a single person killing four or more people in a single incident (other than the killer).
Lie: The assault weapons ban in the U.S. did nothing.
Truth: The assault weapons ban did, in fact, limit unexpected mass killings.
Using the more accurate standard used for "mass killings" used by Mark Follman at Mother Jones, and Princeton researcher Sam Wang - where crimes that involve armed robbery or gang violence are not counted - statistics show the assault weapons ban did make a significant difference. As Wang's research noted, "Since the expiration of the gun ban in 2004, the number of shootings per year has doubled, and the number of victims per year has nearly tripled. Three of the bloodiest four years [since 1980] occurred since the expiration [of the ban]."
Lie: "If there had been someone there [at a massacre site] who was packin', those people would still be alive!"
Truth: Armed civilians do not stop mass shooters. As Mark Follman of Mother Jones notes, "...not one of the 62 mass shootings in the United States over the last 30 years has been stopped this way."
Lie: More guns will actually make us all safer!
Truth: More guns actually mean more murders.
As the Harvard Injury Control Research Center found, where there are more guns - in America and in other, similar rich nations - both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.
Lie: Gun-loving Americans don't support gun control or gun safety laws.
Truth: In general, responsible gun owners support effective, smart gun safety laws.
According to a poll taken by noted GOP pollster Frank Luntz for the group Mayors against Illegal Guns, and published in Think Progress by Zach Beauchamp, "...gun-owning Americans, including National Rifle Association (NRA) members, overwhelmingly support a raft of common-sense measures typically described as 'gun control.'"
That includes 87 percent of non-NRA gun-owners and 74 percent of NRA gun owners who support requiring criminal background checks on gun owners. 80 percent of non-NRA gun-owners and 79 percent of NRA gun owners also support requiring criminal background checks on gun shop employees.
Lie: Obama is the worst President for gun-loving Americans, ever.
Truth: 2012 has been a record setting year for gun sales.
As of August 1, 2012, there are nearly 130,000 federally licensed firearms dealers in the United States - which means there are more stores selling guns than groceries in the U.S.
If you're looking for even more facts on guns, check the links below.
Mother Jones' Guide to Mass Shootings in America
NRA Members Agree: More Gun Regulation Makes Sense
Charts: 247,131 Fatal Shootings in 8 Years
The NRA Surge: 99 Laws Rolling Back Gun Restrictions
Did the federal ban on assault weapons matter?
What Exactly Is a Mass Shooting, Anyway?
Worst Mass Shootings of the Past 50 Years
Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States
Guns in America: A Statistical Look
Explaining the power of the National Rifle Association, in one graph
Everything you need to know about the assault weapons ban, in one post
Read more: http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=10652140#ixzz2FayiVN5Y
your diatribe has nothing to do with the wording of the 2nd amendment. Oh and the reason gun sales have soared under obama is because of the fear that he and the dems will confiscate guns, of all types, from everyone.
deranged
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/bowling-for-columbine/
michael moore, that fat phoney?
Moore is a great soldier for the 99%. A better person than you I'm sure. He certainly has his priorities straight!
fatso/fathead moore is a fraud.
You sound ignorant.
YET: Not deranged!!!!
But no one is talkin about confiscating anyones guns.
But you're right it is fear. Fear mongering lies repubs use to get votes, and the same lies the NRA uses to increase gun makers profits.
not everyone who owns a gun belongs or supports the nra.
Cool. I never said that.
what "lies" by the nra were used to increase gun makers profits? people are buying guns because they fear the obama administration.
The lie that the Obama admin will come for your guns.?
They will do their best to accomplish it.Dictators do best when the population is unarmed and cannot defend themselves from tyrannts.
So you think the govt is gonna take over? Or what? arrest us all? What exactly are you afraid of.? You think you and your fellow gun nuts are gonna last 5 minutes against drones, tanksand cruise missiles?
What ARE you talkin about?
You have no idea whether i own a gun or not. you also seem to think that anyone that does own a gun is a " gun nut". the preamble of the constitution of the united states is "We the people". the current adminstration is under the impression its WE the govt.
Yeah right. Whatever you say.
So you think the govt is gonna take over? Or what? arrest us all? What exactly are you afraid of.? You think you and your fellow gun nuts are gonna last 5 minutes against drones, tanks and cruise missiles?
What ARE you talkin about?
Psychological exams for all children who reach the age where they can cause harm, another exam at the age of 18 and another exam at the age of 28.
And if a person is on any kind of drug regardless of what it is a mandatory psychological exam every year taking those drugs.
So, there you have it.
That is definitely a piece of it. Good job.
I once again remain strong on the idea of home defense. However, what happened in this situation is horrible. In cases like this, cases of mass murder, you have to think of it in these terms: when a sociopath has an agenda of death, any tool can be used as a killing machine. Is not the gun who is at fault here, it's the person. Personal responsibilities are being thrown out the window for the sake of controlling a set population. We need true gun control. Get the thugs off the street and keep track of our guns!
According to initial reports, he shot his dad at home & his mom at work at the school & then the kids !!! Home defence, my ass !! WTF have automatic & semi-automatic weapons got to do with defending your home - unless you live in a Fkn War Zone ?! But seeing as tho' The U$A is perhaps exactly that, maybe I just answered by own quandary, + http://truth-out.org/news/item/13352-multiple-fatalities-reported-in-shooting-at-connecticut-elementary-school ~
ad iudicium ...
That's not what I meant at all. I meant that home defense is the only reason guns and deadly force should ever be used. In protection of yourself or your family.
Those who have excelled gun violence and cartel profits, should be brought to justice.
How about hunting?
I personally am vegan. I believe in farm raised animals for self sustainment purposes only. Hunting is depopulating our world.
I think mostly we allow for hunting, but ok. I can't disagree with you. I don't hunt.
What about sport? Shooting range. And such. Is that allowed.?
I don't agree with hunting for sport. With that said I don't believe any one side should have the authority to make personal choices for the rest of society.
Ok. but the use of guns at shooting ranges is ok?
I don't see anything wrong with range shooting, as long as as no sentient beings are harmed.
Only sentient targets. Although I do not own or shoot guns, I suppose I have to allow that right.
I believe the right is only in the context of "a well regulated militia"
Agreed.
We should have the right to organize and protect our own. A great example of this is Occupy Sandy. There are many instances in which government protection has failed us. If the time ever comes time during an economic crash or any other disaster where we are faced with a situation where we have to protect our society--we should be prepared.
Do you disagree with Hunting or poaching as a person who has hunted I see the purpose to regulate the population of certain animals with hunting since we have taken out their predators. A lot of the animals I have hunted are a nuisance to farmers or to the native water and can kill ponds and lakes.
Now I disagree with poaching which hunting an animal for a certain trait or for items deemed Illegal.
I’m not a huge fan of those place where you can pay to kill certain types of prey to me its unnatural.
Like I stated above for self sustainment purposes only. I believe that the species of this world predated our existence. Hunting, on a natural level for self sustainment purposes, can benefit the overall population of animals. However in our current corporate dominated society, hunting has led to mass population. That is something I can never stand behind.
However, like I also said above no one side should have the authority to decide what others do with their lives. What needs to end is the dismantlement of ecosystems and depopulation at the hands of corporations. That is my view.
ok so we believe the same things just act on them differently
Agreed.
Tomorrow?
All the NRA gun nutters will make umpteen excuses about how it's got NOTHING to do with them.
Some crazy shit about arming kids in womb?
Anything at all, as long as their sacrosanct ability to own as many instruments of death as they can, rules over the children's right to life itself.
Seems to me there was something said about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and those words came long before the right to kill whatever you want.
Should grandpa be forced to give up his gun?
You want grandpa's out there, in a decaying society, as sitting ducks?
I understand what you are saying. A lot of reactionary thoughts after tragedy is normal. But simply screaming about "weapons of death" is not going to help anyone or anything.
More excuses? From you?
More wedge issues? From you?
It was expected.
You've preferred dead children in every gun ordeal so far, unless you could blame it on the US military..
Stop worrying about gunowners & start worrying about gun victims!
OTP you nailed it. People must not panic and give up their rights because a few nut jobs snap. Communities everywhere are laying off large numbers of police officers. People must be allowed to protect themselves. The Govt is providing less and less resources due to crippling deficits. People will have to provide for their own security. Guns are essential in a society that is becoming increasingly hostile. People here are manipulated by fear and cannot see the big picture.
Shootings just happened here in the NW, now the East, they are distracting with Psycho-Babble, although reviving the psych-hospitals Raygun demolished would do us a lot of good. It's just like the Right to create a problem and then bitch about it!
BUT
No one of these shooting assaults could have happened without a gun!
Looks like they're not gonna wait until tomorrow.
We're close to umpteen excuses already.
Somehow, all those people are still dead.
Just another SANE gun owner, until he wasn't anymore.
At least we can take heart in seeing how concerned "they" are about MASS awareness!
All that's left is for them to wave a flag and a Bible in our faces.
What was it Sinclair said?
Fascism will come wrapped in a flag carrying a bible.
Dummies now don't even know what fascism is.
No they don't.
They like the FLAKESnews version..........As if!!
You mean straight off a stripper poll!!
So how do you remove the guns from the streets in this violent, power hungry country whose government is world leader in exporting arms and destruction?
Turning the Vics into Billionaire arms tycoons would probably do the trick.
Sick people in a sick society - apparently the shooter was not happy about someone who made a decision that affected his life.
Just had one of those on the left coast!!
coincidence?
Surrender Document
by Stephen Pizzo
Every war has a first day, and I remember when the Culture War was declared. It was August 1992 in Houston. I know because I was there, at Ground Zero, when the Culture War was formally declared.
That was the convention when Ronald Reagan handed the GOP standard off to George H. Bush. And it was the convention at which Pat Buchanan declared war on that part of America that embraced "secular humanism," rather than good old Judeo-Christianism.
I won't recall the battles. We all remember them too well. But every war ends eventually and, hopefully this November's election marked the beginning of the end of that one. With the youth vote on the rise and racial demographics moving from Wonderbread-white to whole-wheat brown, it seems clear that Buchanan and his troops are pretty well on their way to a well-earned place upon the trash heap of history.
Oh sure, a few will refuse to surrender to the inevitable, like those straggler-Japanese soldiers who turned up decades later hiding in the jungles and hills of long ago-liberated South Pacific islands. But the voters have spoken and will, in the years ahead, speak even louder. It's over General Pat, et al.
So I figured it's time to start setting out terms of surrender for the GOP's culture warriors. I am not going to insist that their surrender be unconditional. After all, as a student of history, I remember well what happened after WW I when the French and British exacted unreasonably harsh terms on the Germans. That just set the stage for the next war, and another culture war is the last thing we need.
Therefore I will be generous. For starters, no one goes to the gallows.
But there are some bottom line concessions we should insist upon. So here's a first rough draft of the GOP's Culture Wars Terms of Surrender:
Culture War Articles of Surrender.
Article One: We, (hereafter meaning the GOP) acknowledge a fertilized human egg is no more a person than a fertilized chicken egg is a chicken.
Article Two: Evolution is science. Creationism is not science. Evolution belongs in science classes. Creationism belongs in church.
Article Three: Corporations are political entities created for legal and tax reasons only. Corporations are not now, nor have they ever been, the same thing as "people." After all, if corporations were really persons, and treated accordingly, prisons would be filled with boards of directors. Since they are not, we hereby acknowledge the difference.
Article Four: We acknowledge that wealth has never trickled down. We admit that this is especially true for the American economy, which is 70% driven by consumers consuming. We acknowledge the direct cause-effect relationship between consumers spending money on stuff and the wealth of those who produce that stuff; to wit, wealth trickling up, not down. We apologize for any inconvenience or hardships our previous cyclical and self-serving position on this matter may have caused.
Article Five: We hereby acknowledge that the First Amendment's clause on religion only bars the government from establishing or favoring an official religion, or discriminating against particular religion(s). The First Amendment does not, we acknowledge, give any particular religion, no matter how demographically dominant, the right to impose their beliefs on those who do not share them. Nor does the First Amendment allow any religion to impose its beliefs in public schools or enshrined in government policy.
Article Six: We hereby acknowledge that climate change is not only real, but in large part the fault of mankind's careless and wanton use of fossil fuels. And, we admit here that our earlier position, as noted in the bumper sticker slogan: "Drill Baby, Drill," was actually, "Dumb Baby, Dumb." (Special apologies offered to the citizens of New Jersey.)
Article Seven: We promise to cease opposition to scientifically-sound alternative energy. We also acknowledge that other countries are pulling ahead of the US in the development of financially and ecologically sustainable alternative energy solutions. Germany, for example, now produces a surplus of solar-produced electrical power. We hereby acknowledge we missed the boat on that one and that, rather than being part of the solution, were the very embodiment of the problem. We are really,really sorry about that.
Article Eight: We acknowledge that, if America is about anything, it's about immigration and assimilation. The color and ethnicity of immigrants changes over time. We apologize for reacting poorly to this fact in the recent past and promise to me more welcoming to legal immigrants in the future, no matter their color, creed or nationality. (We also took note in the last election that the votes of people of color counted just the same as the votes of white people with red necks. Duly noted.)
Article Nine: We acknowledge that, while women are equal to men in all areas of ability, there are undeniable biological differences. This is particularly true when it comes to reproduction. Men cannot get pregnant, for example. In the recent past we supported reactionary forces on the right that wished to make it difficult, if not impossible, for women to control what happens to and within their own bodies. This was wrong. In fact, we acknowledge, those restrictive measures bordered upon a massive human rights violation. We promise to, from this day forward, to shun such totally dickish behavior.
Article Ten: Finally we agree to cut all ties with groups that are or associate themselves with the low-brow movement that broadly slithers under the banner of "The Tea Party." Furthermore we apologize to the broad American electorate for any encouragement or financial support we rendered to this collection of largely certifiable ignoramuses. We admit to embracing stupidity in an attempt to find votes from a larger demographic than just the rich and super-rich. But, since our party had had little if any entree into the world of ordinary Americans. we instead fostered a dangerous relationship with America's lowest of the lowest denominators. We wholeheartedly apologize for that. (Besides, all that came back and bit us in the ass this November anyway.)
Article 11: The Sandy Hook Shooting Massacre was the straw that broke the camel's back, and we finally realize the obscenity of our obsolete firearm laws, and call for an immediate ban on all sales, trades and ownership of all guns and ammo, NOW!!
People's lives trump guns!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/people-please-senselessness-becomes-action-ban-eas/
So, there you go - the first rough draft of Terms of Surrender in The Culture War. I will leave it to those better qualified than me to sharpen it up for the final surrender ceremony on January 21st.
newsforreal.com
About author Stephen Pizzo is the author of numerous books, including "Inside Job: The Looting of America's Savings and Loans," which was nominated for a Pulitzer. His web site is News For Real.
CRAZY FUCKING DERANGED Republican Congressman Claims Hammers Could Be Outlawed Under Assault Weapons Ban
CRAZY FUCKING DERANGED NRA Hypocritcally Slams Violent Pop Culture, Even As It Puts On ‘Hollywood Guns’ Exhibit
CRAZY FUCKING DERANGED Arizona Attorney-General Calls For Arming School Principals
http://thinkprogress.org/tag/gun-control/
Obviously there is much confusion and disagreement, yet thousands of people are getting shot every year (makes you wonder about the RW Fast and Furious hysteria). We already have 50% of the worlds firearms and we are only 5% of the world's population, so we have PLENTY of guns.
Let's call a time out, a moratorium, until we figure this stupid mess out.
There is ZERO urgency to maintain our archaic status quo gun availability. There is TREMENDOUS and OVERWHELMING urgency to END the shootings!!
As America Mourned a Shooting Tragedy, Cynical Christian Right Leaders Tried to Cash in by Blaming Atheism
What kind of Christianity is that?
December 27, 2012 |
All that was needed to make the national tragedy of the killing of 20 children and 6 adults into an anti-God kick in Jesus' teeth fest was for the usual suspects who hate Jesus to step up to defame His Name again. Of course I'm talking about the "Christian" leaders who can be counted on to drag the name of Christ through the mud at every profitable fundraising importunity. Christian leaders say that the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut was the result of our national falling away from fundamentalist Protestant gullibility.
The idiots -- religious village idiots that is -- are at it again. I thought Dobson was dead but I guess not. He's just retired. He's still alive enough to act like the zombie-for-Jesus'-younger-dumber-brother he is.(I went on his show 3 times back in the day when I too was part of the religious idiots club.) Bryan Fischer, the American Family Association hate host talk-show host, and Franklin-sell-my-soul-to-the-Mormos-because -I-hate-Obama-so-much-Graham (of course), the president and CEO of the tax-exempt Billy Graham Evangelistic Association was not to be outdone.
Dobsoncommented while speaking to listeners of his Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk program: “I mean millions of people have decided that God doesn't exist... And a lot of these things are happening around us, and somebody is going to get mad at me for saying what I am about to say right now, but I am going to give you my honest opinion: I think we have turned our back on the scripture and on God almighty and I think he has allowed [this Newtown massacre] judgment to fall upon us. I think that's what's going on.”
Bryan Fischer of the American family Association said the victims at Sandy Hook had lost God’s protection because prayer has been prohibited from schools. “The question is going to come up, where was God?,” Fischer said. “I thought God cared about the little children. God protects the little children. Where was God when all this went down. Here's the bottom line, God is not going to go where he is not wanted... Now we have spent since 1962 -- we're 50 years into this now--we have spent 50 years telling God to get lost, telling God we do not want you in our schools, we don't want to pray to you in our schools, we do not want to pray to your before football games, we don't want to pray to you at graduations, we don't want anybody talking about you in a graduation speech... In 1962 we kicked prayer out of the schools. In 1963 we kicked God's word out of ours schools. In 1980 we kicked the Ten Commandments out of our schools. We've kicked God out of our public school system. And I think God would say to us, 'Hey, I'll be glad to protect your children, but you've got to invite me back into your world first. I'm not going to go where I'm not wanted. I am a gentlemen.”
Franklin Graham wrote a "response" to the Newtown Massacre and did not mention the word gun.
Graham said more or less blamed the mdia and president Obama in a round about way: “'The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked.' He continued: “In fact, the Bible gives clear testimony to just how evil the human race became. ‘The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord 'was grieved in His heart' (Gen. 6:5-6)."Where do we go from here? We might start by looking at what we watch and listen to." Graham -- who has called President Obama a Muslim and not Christian at times -- then took a cheap shot saying: “For example, South Korean rapper sensation Psy, who has gained worldwide acclaim by singing that Americans should be killed ‘slowly and painfully,’ including, ‘daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers’ was featured last weekend at ‘Christmas in Washington,’ a charity concert attended by President Obama. Parents and children are feeding on entertainment that portrays violence whether through lewd television programs, violent movies, offensive music, vulgar video games and anything- goes Internet gaming sites.”
Then Old Paths Baptist Church Pastor Sam Morris (of Tennessee) said: “Why do you still send your kids to the governmental schools?” the pastor asked the congregation. “What’s behind this shooting that we saw on Dec. 14 in Newtown, Connecticut and the other one’s like it? What’s going on. Well, number one, deception… I got news for you, when you kicked God out of schools, you’re going to be judged for that. He added: “They think homeschoolers are a bunch of crazies, man. But I’m going to tell you something, I’ve never seen a police officer or a medal detector at a home school. Never. Amen. Now, there’s plenty of guns at my home school. Amen. I guarantee you we’re not going to have a mass shooting at any of the schools that are represented in this building today. I guarantee you, if there is a shooting, it won’t last very long. Amen. I guarantee you there’s at least six or seven guns in this place right now. Amen.“So, here you are, you’re an animal and you’re a god! So, what are we going to teach you about in school? Well, we can teach you about sex, we can teach you how to rebel to you parents, we can teach you how to be a homo!"
Who hates Jesus? It isn't the so-called new atheists like Richard Dawkins. It's the Christian leaders bent on taking Christianity down with them into their private hell of stupidity. With friends like these Jesus needs no enemies. The re-crucifixion of Jesus by his "followers" continues.
To book Frank Schaeffer to speak at your college, church or group contact him at Frankschaeffer.com Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author ofCrazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back .
Stephen Zunes is a professor of Politics and chair of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of San Francisco.
Let's have a Moratorium on Guns and Ammo until we sort this out!!!
What's the harm it that?!?
LOT'S OF SENSE!!!!
http://azdailysun.com/news/local/state-and-regional/more-guns-in-schools-advocated/article_fbdd9541-581a-568c-86d1-b7d4653c0fc6.html
Arming teachers is old way of thinking; a fresher, bolder approach is to have volunteers.
http://www.knau.org/post/az-pro-gun-group-wants-armed-volunteers-schools
Armed militias, out of the woods to guard our schools!
Monty Python should redo "Spam" with "Guns" for the American market.
"How about kindergarten class sir? Not many guns in that."
The Gunnys are DERANGED!!!!
Syria is a good example of what it is like to try to seize power from a modern power, imagine if it were the US. Who would come to our aid? If the NRA gun nuts believe their own crap they would be a lot more concerned about the size of our peace time army.
NRA, gun nut, and Rightie hypocrisy is overwhelming.
For example, what happened to Fast and Furious hysteria??????????
FOX NEWS couldn't get it to go any higher than a few crazy agents, so they forgot about it I guess, have they quit talking about it on FOX?
They should be erasing the tapes, hard drives, and SSDs.
While gun sales are ONCE AGAIN Spiking out of PARANOIA, NRA and some RepubliCon bastards are capitulating to overwhelming reality!!!
OMG!!!!!!!! do you see?
Public attention WORKS!!!!!
NO, two year moratorium on guns and ammo!!
Until we set up the proper and thorough accounting of presently owned firearms and the evaluation, restrictions, regulations and overhaul of procedures of any ongoing sales. Including psychological analysis, and banning of unregulated "flea market" sales.
Pending an outright BAN!
Nope. No way in hell. I have 3 children and yet I still stand by this statement.
Can't stop progress.
[Removed]
Another 20 year old individual that murdererd innocent adults and children - Apparently he had some connection to the school and wasn't happy about something that went on there.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/state-police-respond-to-report-of-school-shooting-in-newtown-conn-lockdown-in-place/2012/12/14/df59a9aa-4602-11e2-8c8f-fbebf7ccab4e_story.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20730717
http://occupywallst.org/forum/people-please-senselessness-becomes-action-ban-eas/
27?
[Deleted]
deranged
Please post websites and links for change! This madness must end!!
So much for ARMED DETERRENT; mom just couldn't cut it.
A teacher wrote Mike Malloy, they don't trust me with collective bargaining or the right curriculum for my classes, but they want to trust me with a loaded assault weapon with children!!!!
Take away the guns and people like these will use bombs. Poor parenting, definitely. I mean really, would you shoot your mother?
Mother, schmuther, if all the Vics were Billionaires, guns would be history faster than you could even say "My cold dead hands."!!
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/14/fl-police-man-shot-roommate-over-how-to-make-pork-chops/
Yes, obviously more guns must be the cure for all this.
signed...........NRA.
When Billionaires get shot, things will change fast!!!
Perhaps changes to the "Iron Chef" format?
More guns, fewer knives?
Doesn't sound too tasty!
I been waiting for this gun to jump off my table for the last hour and it aint moved an inch yet . When it's gonna jump up and start shootin ?
If the Vics were all Billionaires that gun would have done a magical vanishing act right before your eyes.
Well you are clearly not sane if you are waiting for the gun to shoot on it's own. So I would say the shooting is about to begin, & you should obviously not have a gun.
LMAO go take your meds
Fuck you. Show some concern for the children slaughtered, instead of gun owners & gun corps profit.
aww, da little boy got his feathers all ruffeled, If I had your intelligence ( or lack there of ) to survive on I'd shoot myself
Because shooting is the appropriate analogy while we learn that women teachers lunged at the gunman to save their students? And shooting sounds cool to you when we are mourning the slaughter of 20 children shot 3 - 7 times with semi automatic weapons?
You think this shows your intelligence?
You have no respect. You have no honor. Clearly you have no brains.
you so stupid you actually think a guns killed those kids
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57856066@N02/8276919381/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57856066@N02/8276919433/in/photostream
I believe ir was a semi automatic rifle that a mentally ill shooter took illegally from his irresponsible gun owner mother whom he then killed.
Did you hear something else genius.?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57856066@N02/8279943829/in/photostream Stupid kid, You're a waste of air
“ McVeigh used much of his spare time to read about firearms, sniper tactics, and explosives.[13] McVeigh was reprimanded by the military for purchasing a "White Power" T-shirt at a Ku Klux Klan protest against black servicemen who wore what he viewed as "Black Power" T-shirts around the army base.[14]”
“McVeigh also wrote to Representative John J. LaFalce ((D) New York)[citation needed], complaining about the arrest of a woman for carrying mace: It is a lie if we tell ourselves that the police can protect us everywhere at all times. Firearms restrictions are bad enough, but now a woman can't even carry Mace in her purse?”
Perhaps we should give “special attention” to all who support gun rights, using McVeigh as an example.
“In 1993, he drove to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege to show his support. At the scene, he distributed pro-gun rights literature and bumper stickers, such as "When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw." He told a student reporter: The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.[24] For the five months following the Waco Siege, McVeigh worked at gun shows and handed out free cards printed up with Lon Horiuchi's name and address, "in the hope that somebody in the Patriot movement would assassinate the sharpshooter." (Horiuchi is an FBI sniper and some of his official actions have drawn controversy- specifically his shooting and killing of Randy Weaver's wife while she held an infant child.) He wrote hate mail to the sniper, suggesting that "what goes around, comes around," and later considered putting aside his plan to target the Murrah Building to target Horiuchi, or a member of his family instead.[25] McVeigh spent more time on the gun show circuit,[when?] traveling to 40 of the 50 states and visiting about 80 gun shows in all. McVeigh found that the further west he went, the more anti-government sentiment he encountered, at least until he got to what he called "The People's Socialist Republic of California."[26] McVeigh sold survival items and copies of The Turner Diaries. One author said: In the gun show culture, McVeigh found a home. Though he remained skeptical of some of the most extreme ideas being bandied around, he liked talking to people there about the United Nations, the federal government and possible threats to American liberty.[27]”
Today he would use a gun if he had it to do over, McVeigh was long ago.
“On April 26, 2001, he wrote a letter to Fox News, I Explain Herein Why I Bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, which explicitly laid out his reasons for the attack.[97] McVeigh read Unintended Consequences and noted that if it had come out a few years earlier, he would have given serious consideration to using sniper attacks in a war of attrition against the government instead of bombing a federal building:[98]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh#Political_views_and_religious_beliefs
and your point is ? LMAO
" Today he would use a gun if he had it to do over, McVeigh was long ago."
can you give me next weeks lottery numbers please since you seem to know evceryting
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-much-liability-coverage-would-you-need-for-som/
yeah gun violence is sooo funny...
So you are advocating restrictions on fertilizer, and box truck rentals?
Ban ALL guns. Lets start gathering all the guns in the right wing wacko red states 1st.
"It's the only way to be sure"
Ya with us?
duh, Criminlas have their own people that MAKE guns you dumb fuck PLUS last I heard they dont obey laws.
did your parents have any kids that lived ?
Looks like 80% of criminals get their guns from private sales.
http://www.upworthy.com/10-terrifying-facts-about-guns-in-the-us?c=upw1
We can do something about that no?
oh yeah right homemade guns. bullshit we know who's makin the guns on city streets. There ain't but a handfull of gun mfg. All in the red southern states.
I can't wait for the day we crack down on those death dealin gun mfg motherfuckers. Every dog has his day. Justice will catch up with those scumbags.
people kill and guns do not, idiot
deranged
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/bowling-for-columbine/
But people kill with guns so often that the American people are outraged and demand action to minimize these massacres.
Aren't you outraged at the slaughter of twenty 6 year olds.?
Don't you want to reduce these massacres.?
Aren't you outraged?
Or are you of the minority who think it is more important to protect gun owners, & therefore gun makers profits?
Guns do not need to be banned but certain people need to be banned from owning them
That is one useful idea, There are others related to responsible gun ownership, & also responsible gun sales! Also action on Mental health care, Also compliance to report criminals, & mentally ill, closing sales loopholes that allow criminals to get guns, even action on the culture of violence.
Your last response to me was removed! Are you misbehaving?
If they put any type of ban on weapons then more criminals / psychos will get their hands on more of them. As far as mental health is concerned the obama admin has just severely cut funding for that
Hey Scumbag! Why have you just sent me this? -
firghtyer said 1 minute ago at Dec. 21, 2012, 10:46 a.m. EST (delete) 'Occupy The NRA'! ////////////// should be occupying the brown turd in the WH instead
Don't send me messages again you racist pig!
Stop Occupying Your Ass With Your Head!!
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyTheNRA
Are you sending racist PM's again?
Don't be a coward. Be a useful contributor. Your nastiness, & anger just marginalizes you.
Racism eats at YOUR soul. YOU are victimized by your hate.
Embrace love. It is it's own reward.
Reagun did that long before you were born.
Try and keep up. Were you educated in Texas?
No I was educated in the Thumb of Mi and aint no city idiot like you
'Educated' my ass! You are the 'idiot', as proven by this -
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firghtyer said 1 hour ago at Dec. 21, 2012, 10:46 a.m. EST (delete) 'Occupy The NRA'! ////////////// should be occupying the brown turd in the WH instead
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Do you think that it is ok to send that to me? I called you out before 'Nowsmichigan' & so now ask you here - are you a weekend Rambo, 'Michigan Militia' supporting gun-nut? Stop Occupying Your Ass With Your Head! Guns are soon to overtake car accidents as a cause of death as cars get safer but idiots with guns get more idiotic in our country. Get a grip there! https://www.facebook.com/OccupyTheNRA .
Ache4Change said 2 hours ago at Dec. 21, 2012, 9:46 a.m. EST (delete) Please do not tell the others but my former username was Thrassy
Ache4Change or Thrassy do not pm me anymore
As well as a racist, you are a liar and a fraud! Give Up Occupying Your Ass With Your Head!
Mayville? Caro? Kingston? Cat Lake? Lapeer? Columbiaville?
Grindstone City?
I know the thumb well.
Whatever. Your failure to keep up is pretty telling.
You wouldn't be one of those with a FLAKESnews addiction would you?
Bay Port
They keep FLAKESnews on in the bar, eh?
Most do.
Sad, isn't it? They're getting dumber by the day and loving it.
We must restore the cuts to mental health care whoever has cut it.
Criminals do get guns easily. We MUST take action to minimize that reality.
80% of criminals in prison claim they get there guns from private sales without background checks.
Maybe we should deal with those irresponsible gun owners who sell to criminals.
(NRA Lapierre just interrupted 2x by protesters. LMFAO! Solidarity!!)
Hey nimrod, if you would have read my post then you would have found out who cut the funding, it was the obummer admin
'Hey nimrod' why are you sending me shit like this? -
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firghtyer said 1 hour ago at Dec. 21, 2012, 10:46 a.m. EST (delete) 'Occupy The NRA'! ////////////// should be occupying the brown turd in the WH instead
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What should we infer from this? How about you - Stop Occupying Your Ass With Your Head!
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyTheNRA
Ache4Change 'Hey nimrod' why are you sending me shit like this? -
Ache4Change said 2 hours ago at Dec. 21, 2012, 9:46 a.m. EST (delete) The Obama admin sucks and so do Democrats!!!!!
Please AchefChange, do not send me any private messages like this again if you are going to chop up the Obama admin.
You are a liar and a fraud and a racist but I pretty much agree with that message that I did not send!
Your simplistic idiocy fails again, just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyTheNRA :)
We must restore the mental health care funding no matter WHO cut it.
It has been starting in the 1980's by Reagan, and in the states by mostly republican (who cut spending, to give wealthy tax cuts)
Your side is in disarray. They are selfdestructing.
LOL. it's all over for you.
Actually, here in Michigan it was Engler.
Nationwide it was Reagunomics.
You? For instance?
No I am on the "right" so there is no need
All the more reason.
All viewers of FLAKESnews and "right wing" media in general, should also be prevented access, as such consumption is deleterious to sane thinking patterns.
This has been proven time and time again. Even in a court of law.
If you were actually sane, you would already be aware of this conundrum.
Emotional knee jerk.
people should just suck it up right? they don't understand guns are more important than kids, after all without your guns they'll just take your kids and give them to the gays right?
If not now, when? Any one of these kids' lives is more important than continuing our easy access gun laws.