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Forum Post: Peace and Unity - the underclass must not be divided

Posted 3 months ago on May 30, 2020, 8:12 p.m. EST by elf3 (4181)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

When protest turns violent it undercuts the cause. Dr. King fought for the disenfranchised - whatever ethnicity - including white people. He recognized the system was the problem and understood to fight that system was to take on something that required the support of the entire nation. He spoke about God and compassion. In his eloquence he implored people to look inside their hearts and do the right thing. He did not give them what they expected - which was to turn into the violent creatures that would exactly feed the fear of those who sought to oppress. He instead reflected to them - their own hate and inhumanity which forced people to decide - who am I? Am I a person who stands as a participant or bystander to cruelty? To trigger more fear with violence is to close the window to change. Violence is going to induce fear and fear induces hate and induces further oppressions. This is not to say we must have acceptance of inhuman behavior - it is to say we must never sink down to the level of those who lack compassion. The fight can only be won by example.

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33 Comments


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[-] 3 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

In response to I'm Not Me[-] -1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 17 hours ago "The reply button is missing to reply to" me because after 15 to & fro's - the forum is designed to curtail the exchange - as much for page space as anything else because with each reply on the page, there is a 'shift to the right' (actually as opposed to just metaphorically, lol). I have added a little to my reply to U here^ and tho U can't reply directly to that or this reply, please feel free to cut and paste to elsewhere on this or another OP Forum-post & I'll be happy to continue our exchange. If nothing else elf - then please do re-read my full reply^to U and watch the video/Twitter information in my replies above. Thanx and fyi, again: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement and: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-07/police-brutality-caught-on-film-black-lives-matter/12330672 pax, amor et lux ... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Thank You - So I've been trying to figure out in myself the reasons why I objected and it's been eating at me (not that it requires my stamp of approval). I always felt the core message of it is important but I definitely jumped to a defensive judgmental stance - being "part of the problem" even as a liberal. I do think it's not a bad thing to stop and examine where we are in our thought processes and just because we take a certain initial stance something doesn't mean that shouldn't or can't change . I know it's possible to get used to where we are and think that's fine as the normal (accepted bias) which only starts with police brutality and runs much deeper. And what us white people think is just normal, doesn't feel that way to someone else. So it's important I/we do progress from that place instead of getting initially defensive as I think I may have. I'm also happy to report our community had peaceful protests. So it appears there was a lot of expected hype for violence that didn't turn up. I'm actually feeling remorseful that I fell into the fear. I'll be interested to see where the movement goes since I was wrong on that count perhaps others as well. Perhaps it won't derail a new labor movement or women's movement but spark more change. I'm hoping this will have a ripple effect for positive change, for our country, and quality of life for all.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

Those who "fell into the fear" usually dear elf ... rarely make it back, imo. This is exactly how Corporate MSM operate in order to "Manufacture Consent" for The 1%'s privations. The fact that U were "actually feeling remorseful" ... is exactly the reason why U should no longer do so. U are a good person, with a well working moral compass and none of us can be perfect all of the time. Just move on anew now.

We can only be the best we can be and as U have so gracefully shown - it needs the work of head and heart and, then the extra effort of connecting the two. U should know that I concur with what bw says to U - especially when she says ... "your work on this forum for these past 8 years has been an invaluable voice for The 99%". I'm ever hopeful that The BLM movement do exactly what U intuit, without explicitly saying so - in that BLM comes togther with a New Labor Movement AND a New Women's Movement to effectuate the true socio-economic justice that ALL Americans deserve. Now fyi ...

"Neoliberal society is built on the myth that economic prosperity is hermetically sealed from racial and social justice."

Solidarity Sister!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

Note - "The death of George Floyd & the Black Lives Matter marches that have followed have made headlines the world over. But the longer-term political impact from these events could be more wide-ranging than anticipated ... these Protests over Racial Justice also have the potential to seed a new labour movement in the US." from ...

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23315) 3 months ago

Sweet, elf. You make us proud. Much love and solidarity to you.

You are an innately good and thoughtful person and your work on this forum for these past 8 years has been an invaluable voice for the 99%.

Fight on!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

"Organize the White Working Class" - by Richard Moser:

Includes: "Ted Allen on the Invention of the White Race"

e tenebris, lux?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

Your reply moved me deeply and I will reply at greater length later. It's the first anniversary of the tragic death of my 11 year old nephew today and so with both your reply & Raffi in mind - I'm posting this link here now below in Solidarity and in The Spirit of Universal Love and .. The 99% Class Struggle in USA, in all its forms, in the hope that all the forms align & unite to see where the real oppression comes from:

pax, amor et lux ... et per aspera ad astra!

(peace, love & light & by hard work to the stars!)

[-] 1 points by gsw (3324) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 3 months ago

Racist Violence Can’t Be Separated From the Violence of Neoliberal Capitalism

In 1983, median household wealth in the United States was $84,000. Thirty-seven years of growing inequality later, it sits at $82,000. Meanwhile, as a point of comparison, the total wealth of the Forbes 400 was $92 billion in 1982. Now, it’s $2.89 trillion.

https://truthout.org/articles/racist-violence-cant-be-separated-from-the-violence-of-neoliberal-capitalism/

[-] 1 points by gsw (3324) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 3 months ago

We do not like the violence, Americans who mostly, still have a connection to morals of their heart, who have not sold out their grandchildren, nieces and nephews. Trump is exposing deep flaws we realized here, before he was elected. We touched the surface of them.. it seems Americans are becoming more united, and reflecting a bit more. It takes time.

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-trump-has-adopted-a-viva-death-approach-to-the-presidency/

We know shit would hit the fan, with trump. More may be willing to see, now. And wake up.

1 https://youtu.be/hN1ui3LyFgc

2 https://youtu.be/2gyJZHEtSWk

3 https://youtu.be/Ayizzcv-NCE

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23315) 3 months ago

The Civil Rights movement of the 1960's and the anti-Apartheid movement in South Africa in the 1980's were both non-violent peaceful movements that followed the methods set out by Gandhi. We would all aspire to use these methods again. Nobody wants violence.

But both of those movements had huge shortcomings. Yes, laws were put in place "saying" blacks had the same opportunities as whites, but in neither place has economic inequality or racism been dealt with. Today, in both the U.S. and South Africa inequality and poverty among the black communities are rampant.

"South Africa is the world's most unequal nation"

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/africa/south-africa-elections-inequality-intl/index.html

Can a new peaceful movement take us forward from where those two movements from the 1960's and 1980's flagged? I would hope so, but it hasn't happened yet. As our government continues to ignore peaceful protest movements like Occupy, like Fight for 15, like BLM, etc, one has to wonder?

Come to think of it, even the feminist movement of the 1970's hasn't exactly brought us gals equality!

Why is it that governments don't listen? Rhetorical question that doesn't have a real answer, but, bad people, greedy people, corrupt people, that's who ends up in government is one answer. Also, peaceful protests are easy to ignore, "let them protest, they'll go away," is the thinking of the people who do not want to make the changes.

So,

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." JFK Jr. and

"A riot is the language of the unheard." MLK, Jr.

And, I will add, when people feel despair and have nothing to lose, they will react. Someone on twitter said this is not a riot, a riot is something you get when a favorite team loses, this is a rebellion of the oppressed trying to free themselves.

[-] 0 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

The bully has you down on the ground and you ask him to stop and he says no. Then what? Maybe you fight back that one time and punch him in the nose - he comes back with 5 more of his buddies tomorrow (or the national guard). They make you the bad guy. "You started it. Or you are making up stories for attention or something you want. There must be something defunct or wrong about you". I don't believe our society has yet solved this problem. How do you fight a bully and win? Is it ever possible? What does the bully want?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23315) 3 months ago

Who is the real bully? Is the bully the capitalist economic system that survives through exploitation? That benefits from dividing the people by extending racism and inequality to make us hate on one another when what we should be hating on is the very system that castrates us?

So, the immediate bully is the cop standing on your neck in that moment but who is the mastermind of that bully. What created that monster? I think there is a bigger bully and that is our sick system, our sick society which needs revamping to end this madness!

And after 400 years of oppression I just cannot ask black people to behave themselves better. To me, that is more oppression. Whatever happened to self defense? To the right of self-determination?

And, how can you fight a bully? You just do it. It is always right to fight a bully. Who cares what he wants really.

We've had two chances as a nation now to have Bernie Sanders for president and we've blown it. The big bully took him down.

Not sure where things are going to go from here. Without decent people in government I do not see how this inequality and racism will change because the scumbags in charge benefit from the very inequality and racism that we are trying to fight.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

I had a boss once who let me know she was viciously bullied as a teenager. Not incidentally she bullied me relentlessly. Isn't this transferring the injustice onto someone else? Maybe I reminded her of the pretty girls who attacked her in some way. I represented something she despised and she equated me to them in her mind. But I never bullied another person in my life. In fact I generally tried to break up fights if I saw them happening. I think it's not good to get something back by taking it out on someone else. There must be a better way than to continue the cycle.

You can see how it goes - imagine if then I became a boss and then I bullied all my underlings. like "Hey if I went through it, so should you." And on it goes. Unless someone consciously says I will choose to be better than that and treat each new person we meet without viewing them with the hurts of our past.

And I'm not saying to forget it or not to address injustice. But I don't think it is right to misdirect it at someone else.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23315) 3 months ago

When you read history, you see that most change is born out of violence throughout space and time in world history. Reading history is the saddest thing, it really is.

You are trying to extrapolate out your own experiences of personal bullying onto nations and I get your point. I'm not a bully either and have had my moments with being bullied, trust me and I pretty much, like you, never fought back and it always felt kind of shitty to have to sit there and take it and frankly, things didn't get better until I was out of those situations altogether. So, not fighting back didn't stop the bullying!

So, how do things change for people of color? I think if they sit back and do nothing, nothing will change. And, let's be clear, 99.9% of the protesters are peaceful. It's the bad governments we've had for decades that don't do anything about the injustices, that don't listen to the peaceful protests.

We keep voting in Democrats and Republicans who don't give a darn about people of color. It's all talk. They protect the status quo because they benefit from it. So, we'll have to see what happens.

History tends to repeat itself. And, history is violent, sadly.

Last night, Trump was hiding in a bunker in Washington D.C., in the United States of America! Surely, we can make the changes people of color need so that they can live decent and fair lives and we can avoid this violent reaction? Or not? It's up to us.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

Violence and death? This is not my movement - I can not be part of this violence or a movement that does not strongly stand against it and stand for the freedoms and rights of all people!!!!

ALL I SEE NOW ARE A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES. Yes I want to see progress but no - not like this. We are not seeing good things. America is seeing videos of protestors beating up helpless disabled people in wheelchairs. It made me sick to my stomach. (Real or not) but how do we know? In fact I think the entire thing needs to end unless there can be an organized peaceful movement where the alt-right isn't infiltrating and astroturfing or possibly making videos to make it look more violent than it is if that's even the case - maybe it was real...I can't see how this could possibly have been staged - looked very real to me.

I will not tolerate even one percent of protestors harming a helpless person while others stand by laughing and enjoying it - her terror was actually worse than what happened to Floyd and bordered on torture. Actually I would call it torture. AND Putrid, VILE, INTOLERABLE HATE. This is going to destroy progress. Nail in the coffin.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23315) 3 months ago

Violence happens to the black community every day. Where's your outrage at that?

You see some crazy video you don't know whether it's true or not but you're going to blame all the protesters for it? When it's probably agents provocateur or just simply the actions of a bad few?

Should we allow the bad behavior of a few infiltrators to negate the matter of black men being killed by cops? Should it negate the rampant racism black people face daily in this country? The generational wealth that's been stolen? The poverty they live in?

Should we negate all of that because there are some videos out there of violence that we don't even know is true and may have been perpetrated by a few bad actors, even possibly agents provocateur? When blacks have faced violence for 400 years!

400 years of violence but they must behave now. I find that kind of offensive.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

Actually crime happens in black communities every day - and I know since I live in one. You want to stop conflicts with police - stop doing illegal shit and work to make the community everything it can be. The only thing making it bad is the crime ruining it for everyone else. There comes a time for individual responsibility - no one else is going to drop in from the sky and fix it all. My community receives millions in tax dollars. I can't even count the number of non-profits to aid and help people. It's not enough because the economy at large is shit and there is no upward mobility. That's what needs to be fixed - Wall Street!!!. As Clinton said It's the one percent (economy) stupid!

But instead ...old lady in a wheel chair being punched in the head and destroying small businesses? This anger should be directed at Wall Street and our system at large.

AND the white old boys of Wall Street are sure LOVING this distraction from their disgusting anti-American pandemic GREED!!! Because they know - DIVIDE and CONQUER works. While Trump just increased his voter base.

I do not need to know if the video with the elderly disabled woman being beaten in the head was real - what I do know is this violence has not been condemned by Occupy (Micah White) or the protestors or community leaders - instead people seem to be saying that something this horrific - could be justified.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23315) 3 months ago

"Those in power who want us to focus on looting and property damage instead of the thousands peacefully protesting are trying to distract us from the terrible violence that engulfs the lives of working people every day. As Coretta Scott King reminded us, violence takes many forms." - Bernie Sanders

“I must remind you that starving a child is violence.

Neglecting school children is violence.

Punishing a mother and her family is violence.

Discrimination against a working man is violence.

Ghetto housing is violence.

Ignoring medical need is violence.

Contempt for poverty is violence.” - Coretta Scott King

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1267894979827040259

I will add, killing black men is violence. Wall Street is violent.

Thank you, Bernie. Truth!

And, beware of propaganda, agents provacateur and false videos at this time that are trying to distract us from the very issues we are fighting for. And, do not let the few bad people who are doing bad things that no one condones, sully the fight for rights that the many so desperately need.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

Well I suppose after the long hardships that all the 15 year old kids I see have endured - one can't blame them for turning the world into a violent playground so they can finally get a piece of American pie. Seriously? The country (lead by Trump) is caving in to the demands of 15 - 20 something year olds who are just discovering life sucks? If you believe that then you should call for a Pegasus next and I'll sell you a condo on the luxury island it takes you to.

Um ok - We can't even get Covid tests in a pandemic and vital nurses can't get a lousy mask but by golly you've done it! - ? Man you pulled off what no other generation has ever been able to do in the shortest amount of time we have ever seen - what geniuses! (that was sarcasm).

The rioters may be saying it's about this guy and injustice BUT if I had to guess by their actions if they'd even stop to give him a buck if he was laying on the sidewalk homeless - I'm gonna guess - no. I think the violent rioting teenagers might just be disappointed they can't be celebutants with a big inground pool. And this is coming from a left job unicorn wing nut - so can you imagine what the Trumpers think?

As far as the economy goes: Well - welcome to it get on board the boat and row with the rest of us assholes my dears and we can have a nice long chat about how much worse it all gets and we'll catch you up to speed - k? The motto of my generation was "life sucks, then you die". We learned that pretty fast and that was before we went through so many economic crashes - we''ve lost track.

I like the idealism here, and I truly hope the world gets more fair but guess what - there is no pie. Wall Street ate it and they are letting you have your protest so they can crack down the hammer after middle America is lathered into a fear frenzy and ready to bring in ANY facist measures to bring back order and control. And actually the pie comes from us rowing and Wall Street divvies it up. But that will be drying up now very soon. Then what do you think is going to happen? The Patriot Act is going to look like a fucking party favor next to it.

aka you are fucking this up soooo bad. PEACE NOW!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23315) 3 months ago

These young people are beautiful. Truly beautiful inside and out. They will not tolerate racism and inequality and are not afraid to face down power.

I'm in awe of them. I don't agree with you at all. I think the hope for this country and this world lays in their hands, and they know it.

I do not choose to judge the entirety of the protests by the bad actions of a few. That is exactly what the power structures and establishment want us to do. Nope.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

So no latin & no links but just a question, if U'll indulge me elf: What, specifically is your beef? U are not under any obligation to reply here or respond to other replies below - or click on the info links there, but I read your exchanges here and am troubled. Again, U are not obliged to answer but after all these years here on this forum with U, I kinda feel like I can ask U, in the spirit of solidarity, comradeship and genuine inquiry. No offence meant nor any desire to argue because I've too much respect for U & your genuine 99% voice for that but my confusion is real & I do feel that I can express that - without rancour.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

Too many to name a specific beef all the complicated reasons previously mentioned and: This protest has a personality disorder. For starters - the sheer irony of a protest upset about being perceived as criminals where people are then seen on news behaving like criminals. Ugh. If this is about Floyd's death - then why are people looting and beating up old ladies? Then the movement gaslights the public by telling them that didn't happen or that it shouldn't matter or that it's justified or it blames someone else. So a protest about not feeling safe in society that makes others feel unsafe in society and takes no responsibility or leadership for itself sounds like ...TRUMP? Two wrongs don't make a right. Then it asks for reparations, which in this situation is like asking about a will at a funeral.

Our country is way too exhausted for riots in the middle of a pandemic. So many young people who seemingly aren't out on the front lines having time to riot are making it even more sucky for the people who do. Isn't kicking people while they are down to demand money, Wall Street's trick? OUR PLATES ARE FULL AND THE ECONOMY JUST CRASHED. The timing of this is just terrible. So yes either keep it a peaceful protest as a vigil for change - or cut us a break please and cancel it.

Finally I hate hypocrisy and censorship. This movement is silencing people in really weird and austere ways. Just as an idea maybe people should be allowed to have normal boundaries or feelings and not all of them mean someone is a racist. If someone is violating another's boundaries people should be able to speak up without someone automatically assuming it's due to racism. And people should be able to express themselves especially Madonna she wrote the literal damn song. A good rule of thumb might be instead of automatically asking if that person is a racist people might first want to ask themselves if they might be an asshole. (They come in every race).

And the violence and very obvious rage at the white population definitely divides us, because, now white people living in diverse communities who could be in the same boat economically speaking and share a common cause are like whoa - is this a really bad idea - and wondering if they should run for the hills? A movement causing people to feel like they don't belong in their own home/ community and may not be safe? Again can't help but see a glaring similarity to Trump and his MAGA hat crew.

Not to mention Covid is still a highly contagious virus. We don't know the real numbers due to a lack of available and accurate testing. How many more innocent people will die now on top of Floyd by this thing spreading? You are standing there carrying a virus that will spread and kill someone else. This is totally and completely irresponsible. So I guess that's ok? You won't mean to kill people - you just don't care if you do? It's already at staggering numbers. We just passed over 100,000 human beings who have died due to lack of proper protocols, I guess I'm having difficulty understanding the utter irresponsibility and lack of care for spreading it. And you aren't just making a choice of sacrificing yourself - it could be another person. Again the BLM movement reminding me of MAGA-T's and Wall Street. Two extreme factions who actually aren't all that different when you examine it.

When I think of the extreme care and protocols front line workers go through every day on the job religiously taking measures to prevent spread while they don't have proper equipment. Washing their hands hundreds of times a day or breathing through masks for 12 hours straight doing strenuous things. I want to scream my head off in rage at people who mindlessly act like it's nothing because they don't feel sick - I mean this isn't the middle ages- germs are still there even when you can't see them and you can be a carrier and not have symptoms. And your flimsy masks don't do the same as real PPE. Now they get to worry about all this rioting while they are there at work watching victims suffer and they haven't had a break since before this all began? The grocery stores are closing and boarding up. Old people can't get food or medicine? This maybe is the most selfish and self destructive movement I've seen.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

So consider, maybe people who say: "I want change too, but you're not protesting the right way" do not actually want change?! That does not apply to U, because clearly U engage here .. because U do want change but lots of folk who consume Corporate MSM seem to say and think that. Re. reference to "the movement" what d'U mean? OWS? Leftists? BLM? AntiFa? In reality, this uprising is now a Rainbow & demanding justice: Social, Racial, Political & Economic.The violence of The State sanctioned by Trump, is on a quite different level, but that is barely being mentioned. Eg.

Relative to the numbers of people on the streets - very few buildings have burned but the same pictures are being repeated. I am not condoning violence and looting but protests like life, are not always perfect. I don't get the 'Madonna' or "Reparations" refs. & of course your strong CV/C19 points apply at this time. It's not a black v white thing tho,as nationwide there are as many if not more white folk on USA's streets.

Furthermore, I repeat: Why is Exceptional Behaviour the expectation of those .. black, brown, white and rainbow folk who are and have been for generations, oppressed?! They have been very restrained for a longtime in my PoV and the brutal slow-motion murder of George Floyd by Serial Offender, Psycho-Cop Derek Chauvin was a last straw for those who have seen A LOT of brutality and who know that they and their's, could well be the next victim" and with 40 million unemployed & COVID, folk are under pressure!

U write very nicely above but there are patterns of behaviour that repeat in PD behaviour across the US that are very open to "generalisations" based on generational experiences that ... "is not going solve the problem" but can help identify it. Tho' I emphatically agree that "we can't eradicate racism just by calling it out", I'm sure you are not advocating NOT calling it out, tho' Socio-Economics is very much in play too.

So elf, why is Exceptional Behaviour the expectation of those - black, brown, white and rainbow folk who are, and have been for generations, oppressed?! They've been very restrained for a longtime in my PoV and the brutal slow-mo murder of George Floyd by Serial Offender, Cop Derek Chauvin was a last straw for those who've seen a lot of brutality and who know that they and their's - could well be the next victim!

"I Can't Breath" at tRUMP's rump kissing MAGA'mericans' refusal to see how USA was born of a violent revolution - that lasted 20 years, against Imperial Injustice! If they were in 1776, they'd be Brit King luvin' Benedict Arnolds! The people of all colors saying "BLACK LIVES MATTER" in the streets & engaging in protests across the U$A now .. are The Real Spirit of America! Please would U watch these two videos?

We can't rewind that which is now in play. U can have all the beef U have but there is no going back to cow! We are where we are. So we will have to pick sides rather than sit on a fence observing, because otherwise be it the PD or a protester, someone is going to metaphorically going to smack us upside the head & make us choose. Finally, please would U consider these links ...

Where are we getting our news/info from? I am asking because .. IF it is from watching U$A's Corporate TV News, then I am sorry to say, we are being fed the information that The 1% want us to have; de facto 'programmed' & so, susceptible to being triggered. TV may wish us to believe that this is a black & white thing ... about blacks and whites because it is clearly bigger and broader than that! Trump - is only trying to play to and trigger his base &, their 2nd Amendment obsession. The 1st & Other Amendments matter, as does the General Welfare Clause - ignored for so long. This "Movement" may be a periodic reminder.

omnia causa fiunt!

(everything happens for a reason)

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

I get my news from many Internet sources NY Times being just one however to get a fair look at the world I also look things up independently in the case they aren't being covered (I don't watch tv.) I look up for instance: person beaten up in BLM protests. Many videos to be found I also look up the history of BLM in credible news sources and it's not great actually - if I don't recognize the outlet I search the specific incident to see if I can find out if it has been corroborated or if I can find it on a credible news source and hopefully more than one. It's awful what you can find. They are extremely graphic and violent and scary. (A man laying twisted on ground after being beaten with teeth knocked out as a bunch of protestor guys laugh.) Store owner beaten with a wooden plank, and others. I would love to know if the videos were not real because I would feel better. However - if the alt-right can stage videos this well then the left and BLM has to obviously deal with this because it's confusing and damaging and it needs exposing I don't automatically believe everything I see but these are super convincing because - would they hire black people to pretend to beat up someone and if so how - lie and tell them it's a commercial or movie? Pay people lots of money? Like, how would this happen? . If they are real and I can corroborate this - I'll be promptly switching political parties to one that denounces BLM. As far as if we all even get the same news from the sites we look at? Who knows? With Net Neutrality gone the internet can literally probably give us all our own internet views and news - how scary and dangerous is that?

I'd give the links but I don't wish to spread misinformation if they aren't related or real. Most appear to be from the local news outlets where the incidents occurred.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23235) 8 hours ago Police brutality - Why don't you look that up? Why don't you do some searches on slavery, lynching, African American history, stolen generational wealth, racism, poverty and inequality in the black community? The Central Park Five? How about read a book on the failures of Reconstruction. You prefer to search some unqualified sources to make you feel better about not supporting black people in their struggle. You come first, your family comes first. Your white privilege comes first. Black lives don't matter to you. You're oppressed, you think, and yes, I agree you are. All working people in America are oppressed by a capitalist system that has it's knee on their necks, but think of this, black people have that oppression too plus 10x more oppression from 400 years of friggin' oppression. Have some empathy and quit blaming an entire movement for a few bad actors.

In response to this I'm not sure why researching a cause to see if I'm on board is wrong? Why do you think I am unaware of police brutality or that I don't care? Replying to the below - that's another problem the name of the group itself makes a presumption that all people don't care or aren't educated or have too much privilege to possibly understand the history of black America and the horrors and lynching's and segregation. I feel sickened and scapegoated by these assumptions because I deeply do care and no I'm not one of these "All Lives Matter" rather my thought is OF COURSE THEY MATTER. Why would someone presume this because I'm against any violence and the divisiveness going on here. I would gladly stand by a peaceful movement to unify people. Unfortunately there is something incredibly divisive accusations etc. so much that To even question about these things is becoming a risk not worth taking.(And that to me reeks of radicalism). Cutting off all dialogue? I'm for equality, against brutality. I'm against scapegoating of any kind. I'm a person who actually writes and calls my government regularly to fight for justice so I refuse to throw myself into the fray of a movement that ignores the possible violence going on. We wouldn't call police brutality a few bad actors either when it takes a whole system to support it - i happen to feel it's inexcusable on both fronts but I guess we will disagree. As far as if the videos are credible I'm saying I don't know? It's important to me because I'm against that sort of violence BUT also - if they are not - those making them need to be held accountable for it. If fake who is making them and why and why are they getting away with spreading fear and lies? And yep the brutality in them makes people afraid. Is that what BLM is about - making people afraid? Afraid to speak, afraid to have opinions, afraid they may get punched attending a protest if they happen to be the wrong color? It seems the leadership of BLM is lacking to invite inclusiveness and demanding for lock step compliance. Meh - no!

Interesting too that white women are being seen as the new enemy of the good at a time when we women have been pushing a strong inclusive women's movement. Doesn't anyone see how we are all being pushed apart? And this is hardly true we not only tried to take down Kavanaugh (extreme right wing judge) but it took us to elect Obama even though we really want Oprah (and yes we did) I did too. apparently saying this is wrong too now and a cover story? plus women in history had no voting rights we aren't exactly unaware of male power structures and oppression not that it compares to slavery. I now see that same male power structure once again dividing us (both black and white) and it's bigger much than me. I only hope the male reverend leaders of BLM who have a large personal hand in the ws / gov money pot and are happy to work with this corrupt administration to keep it flowing for themselves don't destroy society and peace in the process. I know that's succeeding. I hate seeing behind the veil because I am mouthy and refuse to stay silent. (Commence rocket launch - attack mouthy white women and divide the women's movement - silence them at once dismantle us all in the end - fire!!) Male power structure, female oppressions, and yes worker oppressions can commence as scheduled. Heard anyone talk about Chris Smalls lately? Jeff Bezos? Anyone? No? BLM doesn't mention it and they don't seem to care if small business gets destroyed either or if COVID kills the people involved but BLM leaders will get their fame and a book while we all suffer under worsening conditions that this movement doesn't seem to bother to address. Non-profits profit when we are down and out! Can anyone say ADMINISTRATOR SALARY that doesn't much trickle down? Personally I'd rather we all have upward mobility and strong union jobs along with unity. But the violence and radical censorship is sure to divide us. Goodluck and be well.

The reply button is missing to reply to I'm Not Me I think the videos are larger than me seeing them as I'm sure I won't be the only one and it may effect the left in a much larger way (elections) as well as the possibility of such organized staging is frightening - but if they are real I feel ignoring them would prove just as fatal to the left just at a time when the masses were finally turning on Trump. - peace and solidarity to you.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23315) 3 months ago

Police brutality - Why don't you look that up? Why don't you do some searches on slavery, lynching, African American history, stolen generational wealth, racism, poverty and inequality in the black community? The Central Park Five? How about read a book on the failures of Reconstruction.

You prefer to search some unqualified sources to make you feel better about not supporting black people in their struggle. You come first, your family comes first. Your white privilege comes first. Black lives don't matter to you.

You're oppressed, you think, and yes, I agree you are. All working people in America are oppressed by a capitalist system that has it's knee on their necks, but think of this, black people have that oppression too plus 10x more oppression from 400 years of friggin' oppression.

Have some empathy and quit blaming an entire movement for a few bad actors.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

BLM & the Question of Violence and Steve Bannon's Ideas...

I've read what U've said several times, with some real concern &

I see what U say in bold & ask U to please watch 1st link above^

in the least & if U can bear it - Michelle Alexander, in prior reply^^

If U dose yourself with things that scare U, then the GOP await U

as ALL Corp.MSM (incl.CNN & MSNBC) strive to do exactly that!

Beware a "Law & Order" PotUS - he's out to divide & "dominate"!

I get why U may think Biden is a p-o-s & that is the tragedy in US.

I've never been here to push Democraps, I loved Bernie Sanders

but I believe analysis of deep facts are better than fearful feelings

and so differentiating 'cause from effect', becomes very important.

I wish U peace of mind & good fortune in all that U do elf.

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax et respice; adspice; prospice!

(let there be light; left there be justice; let there be peace

& look to the past; look to the present; look to the future!) +

PS https://twitter.com/mkink/status/1269304863667769344

How many black folk d'U see here^& what may that mean?

[-] -1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

"The reply button is missing to reply to" me because after 15 to & fro's - the forum is designed to curtail the exchange - as much for page space as anything else because with each reply on the page, there is a 'shift to the right' (actually as opposed to just metaphorically, lol). I have added a little to my reply to U here^ and tho U can't reply directly to that or this reply, please feel free to cut and paste to elsewhere on this or another OP Forum-post & I'll be happy to continue our exchange. If nothing else elf - then please do re-read my full reply^to U and watch the video/Twitter information in my replies above. Thanx and fyi,

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] -1 points by grapes (5232) 3 months ago

It's not the justification at stake here at the present time. I agree that this violence is horrific to the more pampered ones but the anger over persistent and systemic inequity is very real and widespread and it's not just a Black and White issue.

I personally felt far more anger towards the Whites who attacked my person than the Blacks who robbed me of my money. My Mom didn't get angry at the burglar who took the few coins from my Big Brother's pair of pants/trousers. One is a property crime but the other is a sin of the soul. The U.S. society is not really lacking in properties because of its vast productive capacity. Whites generally occupy a privileged position in society here via systemic oppression and corruption ( I consider the hanging of the Confederate flag without any complaints in prominent but totally inappropriate places to be deliberate intimidation, { not to me but symbolic atrocity is in the eyes of the beholder,} as I certainly feel that the mere mention of the Nazis or the sight of swastikas struck fear into the Jews. For me as I know that some Nazis { as I know German, it just largely evokes "Nationalists" to me so it figures that they might hate Hitler with a vengeance because they loved their country which was usually a good thing to a large extent because it fostered shared socialist and familial values reducing sub-national conflicts } had tried to murder Hitler, at least partly out of his betrayal of the Soviets in their mutual non-aggression pact, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, I don't look at all Nazis in the same way I look at Hitler and I fancy of having had Hitler become an artist rather than a politician instead or some caring person having had intervened with him early. ) Despite this vast advantage, Whites' behaviors still stink. It's Depravity. Maybe we'll start seeing and talking about "Walking while White" "Breathing while White" "Shopping while White" "Eating while White" "Pooing while White" sometime soon, too.

If we talk about property crimes, 2007-2011 Great Recession had destroyed far more properties than the current rebellion did. Well, how did we clean that up? We "papered it over" with Uncle Tom's collusion, right? How many Whites were prosecuted and jailed for the systemic fraud? Yeah, it's one Martha Stewart's fault !!! Right, Wright? Right ! It's Wong! Wrong, Wong !

From the recent purchasing records of firearms, we know that most people who wanted to arm themselves had been given the opportunity and taken it as gun shops were ruled as being "essential" for this pandemic so they could stay open to sell more guns and ammunition. Business owners who had lost properties to looting could have defended their businesses with firearms if they had felt that their properties deserved protection. Business is all about taking risks so they had better be keeping their eyes peeled. I saw well-heeled and expensive-goods stores being protected and other obviously less-worthy being-looted businesses being ignored by the police so businesses need to "know thyself." There are signs of the time, writings on the walls, riots in the streets, roadside bombs being detonated on a soccer/football field by the bomb squad, sound of winds rustling through the tree leaves, Van de Graaf generator blown in by the winds, ancestral stone lion which bled, butchers who drowned, skeletons attending a tea party, piles of human bones, hairy pork, yelping, barking, whining, whimpering, silence, a triangular file shoved through the mouth of a eviscerated dog, a butane-filled cigarette lighter, a bleached human skull with a gaping hole of a hammer-induced blunt-force trauma, a rectangular abdominal strip preserved in formaldehyde with triangular-file puncture marks on it, a pigeon with stuffed-up nostrils flapping its wings, a chicken shoved into a bucket of tar and its feathers defrocked, no rain for a few years, proposed new regulations and laws, etc. Some or all may be of concern to certain businesses.

For example, companies which remain in Hong Kong should prepare for the restrictions. There were previously investors who could only enjoy their equity in their PRC businesses as well as Boris Johnson had enjoyed CoViD-19 if they were to come under the jurisdiction of the PRC. They being prudent ones wouldn't even want to come anywhere close by. They would rather lose all of their investments there than to lose their freedom. The thinking was that with freedom they could remake their money because they had done it before but if they lost their freedom they would truly become a lost cause. Their equity outside of the PRC would do nothing for them. In a similar vein, ExxonMobil and ConocoPhillips had surely made a lot of money in Venezuela but where is that now? I wasn't surprised that the shortage of toilet paper became a problem there at least for a while. Even Red China trying to bottom-fish just cut and run to eat their losses. Venezuela with its current regime neither has the credibility nor the gold reserve to buy oil from Iran for a long period of time. Yeah, state sovereignty is what bandit countries hide behind so let us bomb away, in due time. Mao's son met his demise in the DPRK so we'll see whose son Red Fuckgina sends over to die. Russia will enjoy taking over Manchuria and its vast resources ( Imperial Japan had good taste, so did the Communist Party of China for occupying it as a base for conquest.)

How many trillions of dollars have been lost so far to this rebellion? Wrong unit was being asked for; it's off by orders of magnitude ! As a medical clinic always asks before even seeing a patient, "do you have insurance?" We should ask the business owners, too, "do you have insurance?" This is a country being "run like/as a business." That's why, "We can't even get Covid tests in a pandemic and vital nurses can't get a lousy mask." They needed to be U.S. cronies' tests to be developed and Red Fuckgina halted the export of the masks made there even by a U.S. company such as 3M because Wall Street makes more money by making them there. Under the aegis of state sovereignty, the U.S. can halt the export of U.S. dollars to buy back Red Fuckgina's holding of U.S. Treasury Obligations. Phrased in the Red Devil's language, it's for U.S. national security.

Maybe you should pay more protection fee to the police, as it's more openly condoned than the mafia, to protect your properties. Businesses have hereby been forewarned of what could happen to all that they have made or still own by partnering with the Red Devil. Capital confiscation is the bane of investors.

"No matter whether it's a black or white cat, if it catches mice, it's a good cat," - Deng Xiao-ping.

"No matter whether it's a Red or Blue cat, if you must eat it, it's a 0xDEAD cat," - U.S. Electioneering calculus.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 3 months ago

Fight or flight, the classic responses. I played soccer/football so yeah, it served me well in my childhood years ( not in the U.S. ) when I ran away from the adolescent would-be robbers who had demanded my money. Another time, I was headlocked from behind walking to school through a Whites' neighborhood so I just let my pockets be searched. I only had a few coins ( Mom had put me on "the austerity program" { which helped eventually pay for the transglobal flight tickets; "it's not good enough to have an end; one must also create the means to reach the end" } so I brought my own lunch but very little money with me for the case when I needed to take a bus home ) so the nonWhite guy after having asked me where I was going just let me go without taking anything. It was during my walks through this Whites' neighborhood when I was attacked by the White boys a few times, with rocks thrown at me and at one time a slap on my cheek ( at the time there were street riots and roadside bombs so they could have become paranoid and fearful of strangers.) I wonder whether they were perhaps reacting to having been robbed before by the guy who headlocked me.

Both out of the U.S. and within the U.S, the White adolescents were the most prone to random acts of violence ( although they might not think of themselves as acting randomly because there might be economic and racial backdrops to their attacks due to 》der Zeitgeist《 the "spirit of the time" and they probably couldn't or want to tell different kinds of people apart anyway; why had the Jains been massacred for looking like the Muslim terrorists after the 9/11 attacks? due to their also wearing head cloths? Dark-skinned Hindu Indians were mistakenly attacked as Iranians but even most Iranians hadn't committed the uncivilized/uncivilised raid on the U.S. Embassy in Tehran/Teheran or held the U.S. nationals there as hostages. ) I think that they just felt that they could get away free with the assaults without any consequences. They weren't coming after money but were probably going for intimidation. The Black robbers were different by coming after my money so after the three of them had jumped me from behind and got my money, they ran away.

I had never fought a bully but, at one time, I could have easily killed a White adolescent but I transcended my wrath and released him ( I saw his fearful facial expression anticipating being punched hard and I recalled the damage I did previously to my heavy-leather tote bag due to my lunge at and bolting to chase after two White adolescents after they had pushed me to the ground with my tote bag--I broke its shoulder-carrying strap into two pieces which fact astonished Mom greatly when I asked her whether she knew of ways to fix it--the White adolescent whose vitally sensitive part was in my grip was probably not quite as durable as the strap. ) I don't like to fight but I did pick up some fighting skills over the years ( my Big Brother taught me some as he learnt them for his part-time secondary line of work--yeah, he's the one who bought me the light-assault carbine rifle as a birthday present which I quietly derided to myself, NOT him, { the simple rule for me was to appreciate the intention of and the thoughts which went into the presents, not the actual appropriateness or usefulness, but yeah, I still call a dog, a dog, and a cat, a cat, no matter from whom it has come; black is black, white is white, and then there is my mum is mum "I couldn't possibly comment on that.."--golden silence; my Mom said that she liked my ability to hold my tongue, though not my mouth [chomp, chomp, chomp, as I ¿incisively bit? to the truth, which she respected--I think it's because I defended her; a "very sharp sword" in defense of righteousness was scary to her but she said in the same breath that she respected that]; hmm, was that why she let me make and my mouth eat Johnnie-Walker-Black-Label-Whisky-drenched salted chicken while she sampled Dad's whiskey/whisky herself? My Dad learnt truthy Physics from us: "high-proof aged liquors have exceptional rates of 'evaporation' !" 'evaporation' was what I had learnt from Mom how the deities and deceased ancestors whom we were worshiping from mysterious time to mystical time, consumed the sumptuous foods and drinks we had prepared for them; I asked Mom what differences would it make if we just ate the delicious freshly made morsels straight out of the kitchen instead of performing the time-consuming rituals as all of the sumptuous foods and drinks all went into our mouths and stomachs eventually anyway; she told me that delaying our feasting was most important because we had to let the deities and deceased ancestors whom we were worshiping eat first; I said, "whaaat ! how do they eat and drink? I see no difference in the foods and drinks before and after the rituals;" she said, "don't you see the steamy vapors wafting atop the foods and smell the aromas of them and of the red wine? they eat the vapors and drink the aromas evaporated from the foods and drinks;" aha !!! Mom and I were the goddess and god of my Dad so we took his 'evaporative' offerings of liquors, too; due to their sniffing habits, cats, dogs, and cocaine sniffers get a leg up to becoming deities or deceased ancestors } as a mere "light-and-noise maker;" what's a gun good for anyway if there's no target? we were already living in a densely populated neighborhood by then; it wasn't the many square miles of our shantytown's "backyard" anymore where war games could be played; some sports/war games which we had played near our shantytown nearly spun far out of control... { resourceful people made many weapons which could have landed many in the morgue, hospitals, or prisons } but fortunately didn't, so I became rather wary of the "dominate-them" mentality. WWIII wasn't averted by military commanders but by a political commissar; "one who holds a hammer when being asked for a solution to a problem, any problem, tends to go bang, bang with the hammer;"--don't ask for such help until the hammer has been set down; JFK's inexperience with "the ones wearing the fruit salads on their chests" almost blew up the World; Pootin wants to dominate the Mediterranean Sea, the soft underbelly of Europe; Turkey and Syria have already been ceded by Hair Furor Bonespur who betrayed the Kurds so yet another conflagration has already come nearer; it looks like Afghanistan will become plantar fasciitis and be surrendered by the weak-willed Hair Furor Bonespur, too; remember that anyone who cannot set their hatchet down during negotiation has no intention to abide by the resulting negotiated "peace" so bomb on; there's no peace if one negotiates with a counter-party which doesn't even have the authority to impose a ceasefire because peace, a superset of a sustained ceasefire, requires a ceasefire as a minimum; it's silly to corner a dog as it will bite; overwhelming power { not necessarily force } used for guiding better behaviors into a funnel can work but only after an exit strategy analogous to the role played by Jesus { "the get-out-of-sin-to-evade-Hell free card for Christians;" Mom told me that the Catholics had to go to church often to confess in order to prevent their sins from piling up too high, lest they should die meanwhile with too many unforgiven sins outstanding to be admitted to Heaven; in other words, the "sin pot" needs to be taken care of like/as my kiddie chamber pot does, to be emptied out and laundered frequently to make space for new "sins" } has been prepared and made clear to the dog to be corralled; don't corner, corral. )

The idea of "winning" is mostly all wrong, in my opinion. I no longer see the point of "winning" against a bully. A bully wants to feel powerful but punching at thin air is more irritating and frustrating to the bully. Not having a fight is the closest thing to winning. Desirable changes can be effected by applying a force at a strategic point over time, in the direction perpendicular to the current direction of the "strong" vector.

One needs empathy to see where that point is. "I see what you see." "I hear what you hear." "I feel what you feel." "But I ¿must? have a different aim."

I hope that the re-enactment of this funeral service in another place and another time is not your aim. "Are you coming? Are you coming with me?" Dad was saved by being sent away during the 1918-1919 pandemic to a wet nurse. The sea has sharks but it offers distance and fish. Overwhelmed, his Mom, though she herself survived, lost her battles at home with the pandemic. Aunties.. uncles.. I've never met.

How can we determine whether we are on a very great circle of history's trajectory or an ever-forward straight line of it? Or trajectory is meaningless, or we shouldn't even care?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

"I Can't Breath" at tRUMP's rump kissing MAGA'mericans' refusal to see how USA was born of a violent revolution - that lasted 20 years, against Imperial Injustice! If they were in 1776, they'd be Brit King luvin' Benedict Arnolds! The people of all colors saying "BLACK LIVES MATTER" in the streets & engaging in protests across the U$A now .. are The Real Spirit of America! Please would U watch these two videos?

So elf, why is Exceptional Behaviour the expectation of those - black, brown, white and rainbow folk who are, and have been for generations, oppressed?! They've been very restrained for a longtime in my PoV and the brutal slow-mo murder of George Floyd by Serial Offender, Cop Derek Chauvin was a last straw for those who've seen a lot of brutality and who know that they and their's - could well be the next victim!

respice; adspice; prospice...

[-] 1 points by elf3 (4181) 3 months ago

Burning down cities in anger is a natural reaction to the loss of innocent life - but it takes far more courage and strength to stand in peace.

Throughout human history the bullied, the scapegoated, the victim has been turned into the bad guy. An emotional reaction gives them the fodder they want.

To behave in the way of the bully with violence is to become them. Truth and integrity is all the victim has. In this situation - people must maintain integrity and humanity. Stand for what is right, protest - but do not sink - and destroy ones own integrity in the process (which only gets used against the victim and perpetuates the cycle of violence and war).

On a personal note: While I agree peaceful protest has become less and less relevant in recent years due to lack of media coverage, right now that is not the case. The entire nation is watching...and they are afraid. Not because they fear people of color (though maybe some do and this is not gonna help) but because 'whiteness' has been named as an indiscriminate enemy to be hated and attacked with indiscriminate rage? It is black/ white thinking and hypocrisy at the worst. To induce fear in people - is this the right thing? To become the bully in the process of fighting for justice for the bullied? Many white people fight for justice. So alienate allies by labeling and attacking an entire group of people who just happen to have been born white?

It also ignores a joint problem. To shift toward tribalism instead of comprehending many are disenfranchised within our system - when the mentally ill are hunted and killed by police instead of taken in by ambulance or jailed for being sick - this isn't always just a black white issue: It's happening to other groups as well. Mental illness is criminalized in the US.

I personally can not attribute the behavior of one cop to all others just as we can not say all black people commit crime, I can say this problem of killing people especially black people who are under arrest is rampant, and that too many cops appear to be racist, but I can't lump all white people as racist or part of the problem, or say that all police are racists. Making generalizations to fight generalizations is not going to solve the problem...

We can't eradicate racism just by calling it out. It just makes people hide it better and won't change their inner feelings. We need common ground. We need a mirror which can only come from demonstrating integrity and humanity.

I think it's impossible for empathic people to be racist. Which is not to say that they may not have biases. What does happen is empathic people examine their own biases and make a conscious choice to reject them. It's not about never having feelings or biases. A smart person once asked me - how does someone know they aren't gay if they haven't thought about it? Well on the same note - how does someone know they aren't racist?

I do believe sociopaths are often drawn to positions of power. And this is also something we need to address. How do we identify sociopaths, especially when they are in positions where power can be wielded and abused and a human life is put into their hands? We have a system which promotes abuse of power. I would agree that certain politicians are currently in fact very much promoting a system of racism. Not all white people vote for them. But I'm truly afraid violent protest may win them more fans.

And to add to this I don't believe the sociopathy of gang activity can be left out of this entire picture. It is not innocent or justified. Gangs are violent and induce fear, and destroy lives, should police just let them go at it? The issue can't be ignored or washed over.

All that being said - police are there to serve and protect and detain. When did it become "shoot to kill" or suffocate? We need explicitly clear perimeters for self defense. A cop is not a judge or jury or executioner.

Burning down cities in anger is a natural reaction to the loss of innocent life - but it takes far more courage in strength to reject our instincts and stand in peace. Perhaps human nature is tribalism but it takes far more courage and strength to consciously reject it and find our common ground.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

"Burning down cities"? Where? Which ones? Where are U getting your news/info from elf? I'm asking because - IF it's from watching U$A's Corporate TV News, then I'm sorry to say it sister, U are being fed the information that THEY want U to have; de facto 'programmed' and so, susceptible to being triggered. Relative to the numbers of people on the streets - very few buildings have burned but the same pictures are being repeated. I am not condoning violence and looting but protests like life, are not always perfect.

U write very nicely above but there are patterns of behaviour that repeat in PD behaviour across the US that are very open to "generalisations" based on generational experiences that ... "is not going solve the problem" but can help identify it. Tho' I emphatically agree that "we can't eradicate racism just by calling it out", I'm sure you are not advocating NOT calling it out, tho' Socio-Economics is very much in play too.

Furthermore, I repeat: "Why is Exceptional Behaviour the expectation of those - black, brown, white and rainbow folk who are, and have been for generations, oppressed?! They have been very restrained for a longtime in my PoV and the brutal slow-motion murder of George Floyd, by Serial Offender, Psycho-Cop Derek Chauvin was a last straw for those who have seen A LOT of brutality and who know that they and their's, could well be the next victim" and with 40 million unemployed & COVID - folk are under pressure!

The TV may wish us to believe that this is a black and white thing ... about blacks and whites but it's clearly bigger and broader than that! Finally elf - some links that attest to the truth outside US TV coverage:

e tenebris, lux?

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 3 months ago

"Not because they fear people of color (though maybe some do and this is not gonna help) but because 'whiteness' has been named as an indiscriminate enemy to be hated and attacked with indiscriminate rage? It is black/ white thinking and hypocrisy at the worst. To induce fear in people - is this the right thing? To become the bully in the process of fighting for justice for the bullied? Many white people fight for justice. So alienate allies by labeling and attacking an entire group of people who just happen to have been born white?"

Whites were largely responsible for having invented this idea of racial/skin-color/skin-colour superiority to justify the economic, political, wealth, social exploitation, and power domination. Whites thus became indiscriminate enemy to be hated and attacked with indiscriminate rage. Most so-called colored/coloured people ( realistically Whites are the most colored people whose skin color reflects the broadest spectrum of brightest colored lights and Blacks are the least colored people whose skins reflect the least colored lights ) are not followers of Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolent resistance movement so attacking with indiscriminate rage is just karma. To induce fear in people isn't the right thing but it works. To become the bully in the process of fighting for justice for the bullied is also the right thing because bullying often stops when the cowardly bullies face down each other. Deep down, bullies are fearful and socially insecure people so they are cowards ( e.g. U.S. and D.P.R.K. WTF ! There isn't much that the U.S. wants from the D.P.R.K. aside from non-belligerence and non-interference; similarly for U.S. and Iran; benighted ¿propagandized? people kept on saying that the U.S. wanted to grab their countries' resources but I see a lot of still undeveloped land in the U.S. with resources { e.g. D.P.R.K.'s abundant coal--guess how much coal the U.S. has relative to the D.P.R.K? probably less than the likely leader in coal reserve in restive parts of Red China but still quite vast enough to fry the Earth's climate because much of the U.S. West propped up by the heat flow from the magma hotspot plume under the Yellowstone supervolcano's basin/caldera used to be a vast inland sea with much vegetation around and in it; only American IDIOTS or maybe yet more ¿Bushits? would fight the D.P.R.K. to grab its coal; it seems to me far more appetizing to grab a Washington geoduck/elephant clam for Stalinist-fellatio-Moscow-Mitch-style food, a true delicacy with its "taste of the sea" rather than the D.P.R.K.'s seafoods }; if the U.S. meant to build up an empire, it would have surely built up the greatest empire in history by now as the people who talked about U.S. invading countries to grab their resources would surely claim.) "Might makes right" works at least for a while, in some cases such as Whites on Blacks for a very long while. Of course, it can work in the opposite direction.

Whether alienating Whites fighting for justice with Blacks is prudent or not depends on the numbers. Most Whites were not, are not, and would not fight for justice so throwing out the baby with the bathwater is a numerically prudent choice ( in a democracy of "majority rule.") "[A]lienate allies by labeling and attacking an entire group of people who just happen to have been born [a different skin color]?" It's a centuries-old tradition so conserving it means "yes" to make it occur through stereotyping, as I had heard from someone, "yet another Black man !" before they had even seen the skin color of the perpetrator. Of course, it was often correct but before the evidence was ascertained, it had constituted prejudice. However, after the evidence had been ascertained and the perpetrator had been found to be a Black man, stating such a fact brought out "political correctness" and name calling. In fact, neither the majority of the Whites nor the majority of the Blacks want to expose the issue of the high correlation of crimes on a per-capita basis with dark skin colors. Yes, so it goes on and on. How else but with this conspiracy of silence could this skin color issue be suppressed for centuries without being addressed?

I know how my Big Brother handled the chamber pot which he was to keep clean for us. If it wasn't too full, covering it up with a cardboard sufficed. If it couldn't accommodate more watering and my bombing run, he went to dump it out at the public toilet, regardless of how stinky it got. The North won the U.S. Civil War which was fought over the clash of economic cultures traceable all the way to the economic disparities started by the exploitation of Black slaves in the South and its later expansion into the U.S. West. However, the South won in the aftermath so the skin color issue continued to fester. No one can deal with it if everyone agrees that it must be kept under wraps by "political correctness" on the Left and gun intimidation on the Right. The U.S. has a major gun problem because of this original sin of slavery ( Whites cling to their guns to shoot the Blacks should they rise up in yet another revolt ) and the populace's refusal to deal with it squarely. If the chamber pot isn't spilling over, let me do yet another bombing run to it, hahaha ! The preschooler cries, "Oh no! it's spilling over yet again !!!" My Big Brother says, "Let us round up the usual suspects ! " It's usually the boys because of our remote-targeting "shoot-and-forget" garden-hose topological superiority. Mom, the Socialist, says, "Big Brother must take care of the Big Things." My rather modest-size chamber pot was designated as being a "Big Thing," yay! Mom had bottom orientation, too.

She promised that the then preschooler/kindergartener would take over handling this chore once I grew up to be strong enough. That never came to pass, though, due to our modernization, hahaha !!!

I was actually very amazed at his prophesy uttered in a moment of exasperation when his newly purchased and thicker ( probably stronger ) yoke for fetching water broke within days of using it, "No more fetching water ever--even the new yoke broke!" So it was said; so it was done.. really done for good ( water flowed out of our soon-new home's faucet/tap )--truly amazing ! Hoggyswasch might have been rather potent for this modern-day "Achilles," witnessed by the neighborhood's pigs as having been baptized/baptised in their feeding trough, to become "king of the hogs."

My Dad having escaped the jaws of sharks didn't have a problem with not fighting Nazi Germany anymore in the Battle of the Atlantic ( torpedoed by the Germans and left behind by the British convoy to be drowned, become shark food, or be blown up by the boiler, but rescued by the Germans before the boiler explosion which sank the ship.) He became pacifist and followed Mahatma Gandhi for a while until "things happen" in the Pacific [Theater/Theatre]. The color of one's skin is in principle irrelevant to social equity but it is very real indeed due to the Afrikaner Whites already enforcing it in South Africa in the early 1940s. In a global war, he couldn't escape from the carnage even after he had gone to work on the other side of the Earth, as far away as possible at the time, before the advent of the Space Age, now handed off to being commercially achieved by SpaceX (2020) the George Floyd Section and still hey-manhandled to here, as imagined in 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) the Heywood Floyd Section when a fake-news non-SARS_CoV-2 "definitely not a little flu" "epidemic" was ravaging Clavius [lunar] Base on Earth's Moon ( in my younger years, I had liked manned traveling but I discovered that being at a place in person wasn't worth all of the troubles and time involved to get there and back because information can be obtained remotely via telepresence and retrocognition once one has accumulated some inkling of the location.) Inherited karma was a ricochét karma from which he could not escape, though he had tried to transcend ( not particularly successfully because of preposterous accusations by the people involved who had refused to see.)

It's all very messy due to the retribution flying every which way. People need to achieve transcendence in their own minds and strive to forgive but not to forget. Shifting power balance engenders new conflicts but unshifting power balance sometimes builds up to even greater conflicts later on. Conflicts are built into life as life is electric fire burning slowly in water so there is the fight for water, fuel, food, membranes, electricity, mates, sex, etc. If these needs are satisfied, conflicts disappear.

I subscribe to Buddhism's emphasis on restraining one's desires because it is the most effective way of reducing conflicts. Moderation makes sense ! I know how as a preschooler my eating one and a half pounds of extremely oily "gourmet" fried-with-soysauce-and-sweetened-with-sugar chicken butts in one single sitting ( competing against my very silly and immature adolescent/teenaged Big Brother who ate two and a half pounds butting head to head with me ) had felt like: nausea every single time I merely thought of chicken butts, for more than a decade...NEVER AGAIN !