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Forum Post: OWS Should De-Occupy Ahadzi's House

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 16, 2012, 9:09 a.m. EST by BystanderDC (91)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I read this the other day about how a single father with 2 girls had their home occupied by OWS who have given it to a homeless family, Carrasquillo. What upsets me the most is apparently the homeless family doesn't even stay there most of the time and it is primarily for OWS use. At what point is it ok to take over another person's property. When Wise Ahadzi (owner) asked for help from OWS he was told because he is not homeless and not affiliated with a OWS group they won't/can't help him. Regardless of the reasons why Wise Ahadzi doesn't live there, it's cold to take something away from him whe he struggled to pay the mortgage.

Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087059/Single-father-Wise-Ahadzi-fights-reclaim-house-Occupy-Wall-Street-protestors.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

49 Comments

49 Comments


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[-] 2 points by LowflyinLolana (1) 2 years ago

Yeah, no coments. That is PATHETIC. I'm here in Los Angeles and I want to know what the hell is going on with this. You've got all kinds of idiots over here http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/ows_home_invasion_z9ApqDP6Q0boFviq8CjvAL#ixzz1jYmUEkj4 who are posting comments and are steamed about this.

Personally, I find it really hard to believe Occupy would turn the guy away. I have to wonder what we're not hearing about on this one. If the guy's lying, he needs to be called on it. If Occupy really is handling this unfairly, then that needs to change ASAP.

I really thought I'd find some more discussion of this over here.

I posted a comment on that New York Post story saying I don't believe this is true and thanking the movement for doing what it does, and in general support of protest action. But you know what? Great and fine that people are physically protesting, but they've abandoned the computer conversations. The media and elected officials don't believe there's public support for Occupy because of the comments they read on media articles like the NY Post story. Protest-supporters are either doing it all offline, or just can't take it reading the rude comments of unbelievers. Either way, there's a whole lot of talk going on about Occupy and Occupy is IGNORING IT. Which is not good.

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

OK, what exactly happened here? Did they actually decide that it was a good idea to install themselves in a foreclosed home over the objections of the owner? If so, then it pretty much goes without saying that the group in question was way out of line and owes Ahadzi an apology, a check to cover hotel expenses or rent for wherever they were staying along with any damages incurred by whoever they put in there, and of course access to his home back and full support in retaining it. That said, something tells me there's more to this than the OP is saying; if anyone could elaborate on what exactly is going on over there I'd really appreciate it.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

If a home is foreclosed there is no owner other than the bank. The problem here was that OWS did not do their research. The home was not foreclosed. They occupied it. The police notified the owner.

[-] 3 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

If Ahadzi got foreclosed out of his home, then OWS should have been moving him back in and mobilizing a team of lawyers to obstruct any attempts at eviction, not simply plopping another family back in in Ahadzi's place. If this was a foreclosed home that Ahadzi was trying to buy, then it was a noble idea but really stupid.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

He was not foreclosed. He was the owner, but he no longer lived in the home. He could no longer pay the mortgage and moved out when the bank started foreclosure procedings. OWS thought the home had been foreclosed by the bank. They did not do their research. They moved in along with a family. The police called the owner.

[-] 3 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

That was really fucking stupid of them then. What they should have done is brought a couple of lawyers to him, ask him if he needed assistance, do what I outlined above if he agreed, and if he wasn't interested find someone else who does want help.

[-] 2 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

It was very stupid, yes. Unfortunately, at OWS many who come up with ideas are not matched with researchers who do a reality check on those ideas -- like what happens in the real world in an organization. They did not realize that an actual owner existed -- they assumed that the bank owned the property.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

He is not lying. He is the legitimate owner.

[-] 1 points by BystanderDC (91) 2 years ago

Well they are saying they turned the guy away after they occupied his house because he was not homeless. He had rented another place and was living there instead. And they said he is not affiliated with any Occupy Organization. I suspect that like another commenter surmised the occupy mo enemy needed a base of ops or place to crash and just took the house. The fame doesn't used it because it is too small and too many OWS there now.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

OWS is ignoring it just like they have ignored any issue that puts them in a bad light. There was one small response from them which I posted below. The lack of public support comes from actions like this, most folks would love to see changes in our country on many issues, but this type of nonsense is what holds back most people.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

This was not a well though out plan. OWS did not do the research and moved into a home that legally belonged to an individual. I agree, stuff like this will destroy the movement.

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

It was a terrible plan, completely unorganized as far as the legality of this . What OWS did instead was break into a home and then throw a block party. Now it's being used as a home base of sorts for occupiers.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Unfortunately, I have seen several similar instances. OWS went from being a protest movement to an organization with almost a million dollars to spend. They have not spent wisely in all cases. This fiasco was a perfect example. No OWS people are currently in the home that I know of. The police notified the owner.

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

They went from having almost a million bucks down to under 200K now. I heard they spent 9500 in this house alone. And it still isn't up to code or legal. And I'm not sure who is in that house, last I read was there were mattresses and sleeping bags all over. All these smart college grads should have done some real research concerning this house, or any other they think is ok to break into.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

They spent $5,700 on tea and herbs in a 3 month period.

[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

WOW. I had to look that up after I saw that, and it's TRUE. Unbelievable.

$3,000 for "Supplies for Puppets for Halloween".

More than $5,500 for "Batteries".

Countless thousands (well over $10,000) for metro cards.

$20,000 for tents.

When they marched on Times Square, they spent over $3,000 on food there. Big Shake Shack order, I guess.

I guess it was a fun party while it lasted.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I'm wondering if they run out of money- if this could be the lightbulb moment. When OWS ptb realizes in order to gain support they need to lose the anarchy, get some real leadership, organization, goals and message in order to gain more support.

[-] 2 points by flip (7042) 2 years ago

how do you know this?

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

On the NYCGA site, expenditures are listed.

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I can't even wrap my head around that one lol

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

I know.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

It is not a good idea to renovate a home unless you have legal title to it or have occupied it for a long, long time.These particular occupiers are not all smart college grads. That is a misconception that the media keeps promoting. While some may be, others are young homeless people looking for a place to stay. Lots of misfits joined the OWS movement when the tents were in the park.. With the loss of the park they became the OWS homeless.

OWS is a conglomerate of people --many without any business sense or research capabilities. Getting your hands on money requires putting a proposal forward that gets posted online for 24 hours and then voted on publicly. No one voting really has a clue what the proposal is about other than how it sounds on the surface and those voting do not have the experience to tell a good idea from a bad one.

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

In early Oct, I went down to Zuccotti park to see what was going on and to talk with people. What I found was a restless group of people hell bent on creating some fantasy world . There was not one cohesive message. There was however alot of anger. The signs they held were all over the place as far as grievances. The range of people was astonishing.. old folks , young kids.. tons of out of state people. And yes a ton who had no where else to go.
I stayed for part of a GA just to get a read on what it was.. and all the finger wagging and that kooky peoples mic thing made it impossible to understand what was going on. I left shaking my head. After the city finally broke down the tent city I read somewhere that one of the " organizers" was staying in a W hotel, of course with the donated money. So it is no wonder they pissed thru the money in record time.

If people think this country is in bad shape now, think of what the future holds with this crew trying to make change. I am all about change, helping thy neighbor and standing up for what I believe, but not when it comes to this kind of activity.

As for renovating a house in NYC, you need a permit.. for building, electrical and plumbing. Inspections are done at each phase of the work and it's signed off on by an inspector.

This could have been a great movement, but without focus and some kind of leadership, it is going no where fast.

[-] 3 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Actually Zuccotti Park represented an amalgamation of people that once mobilzed were a force to be dealth with. No tour bus failed to drive by. Tourists by the thousands visited. The artwork on the signs was amazing. A hub of protests. People from anywhere could stop by for 1/2 an hour or a week. Donations from around the country and the world poured in. Without the Park, those that did not disperse went into OWS offices and tried to set up a beaurocracy. Dreamers with no business sense. They forgot that they were grassroots and began to believe that they had arrived. The same people who controlled the cash donations in the Park, now got their names on the bank accounts. An inner circle developed and there has been zero accountability for the money spent. Those in control of the money refused to share any information despite many calls to do so. Those spending had no idea how much was left until very recently. Mismanagement. Many are absolutely shocked to learn that most of the money is gone and shocked to learn of what it has been spent on.

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I would have happily run the books for them, for a fee of course. This kind of spending makes me think of the lottery winners.. they buy 3 houses and 4 benz's and take thier entire family and neighborhood to disneyland only to wake up one morning and discover the coffers are empty. On that note I am off to bed. be well.. was a pleasure to have a civil chat with you here : )

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Thanks.

[-] 2 points by flip (7042) 2 years ago

i also went to the park and had a very different experience - i thought it was great! you did not see this coming and do not know where it is going so don't be so quick to judge - it has done an amazing job already - and what exactly do you know about the money and how much they have or spent?

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Well thats the beauty of perception, it's like art, we all see it differently. As far as seeing where the money was spent, there is a log on the NYCGA site

http://accounting.nycga.net/expenditures/

As far as an amazing job, I'd like to see what has really been accomplished towards some of the goals. Not my job to judge, but I do have a voice and opinions. Afterall I am part of this supposed 99%.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I think it's good if they run out of money. Maybe this will cause the lightbulb to go on in their heads. If they want support for this movement OWS ptb is going to have to lose the anarchy and direct democracy absurdity, get some real leadership and organizational structure and develop real goals to affect change in government.

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I think maybe now they will rethink this whole leaderless concept. Maybe not.. but the way things are going now, it is business as usual with the issues.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

If you go on the NYCGA site, the expenditures are now listed.

[-] 1 points by Courtney (111) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The person staying in the W hotel was staying there through his job. You read that in the NY Post. You can go to the accounting page and see what the money was spent on. The main expenses were food, laundry, printing materials, internet/tech costs, and lately, metro cards for people who can't afford them. There were large donations to other occupies to help them deal with costs related to eviction. There is a large bail fund. Most of us feel like the money has caused problems and stifled creativity, which is why we instituted a spending freeze.
Mainstream political organizations aren't trying to house and feed 400 people, which has made things very complicated for the movement, combined with the constant police harassment and repression. If you are genuinely curious about the movement, come down and talk to people, don't look in the NY post and assume what they're saying is true.
If you have a serious problem with it, come down and participate. We appreciate criticism, but it is democratic enough that one person can change and contribute.

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I read the accounting pages and saw what the monies were spent on. Lets see ,5k for halloween decorations and supplies, 11K+ for reimbursement for tents and supplies in Oakland, 1000's of bucks in metro cards, tens of 1000's of bucks for bail money and the list goes on. Of course the donated money causes problems, it always does when there isn't a cohesive goal. There are working groups on top of working groups ,you've got infighting within it all and everyone is clammering for a piece of the action.

I read many articles as well as the GA minutes and livestreams, as well as talking to folks, both supporters and non.

I also was down at Zuccotti park in early Oct and spoke with many people. What I saw and heard was grievances from all over the place and no real idea on what to do. It was just anger across the board. There was the Wall st money issues, student loans issues, wealth distribution issues, health care issues and on and on. It was a crazy incoherant scene. I stayed for apart of a GA to see if that made any more sense to me and after 20 minutes of the peoples mic thing and finger wiggling I left, still not sure what was going on or where this would go.

As for housing.. I'm not sure what folks expected when they came to NYC. Did the movement think the city would just let them live in the park forever? And live on the kindness of donations ? Where were people living before they showed up in NYC? They weren't all homeless.

As for the bail fund.. is this what the goal is? Just get arrested.. no worries ,the donated monies will take care of that. Is this supposed to make a statement? Clog up an already overclogged system and let the taxpayers foot the bill. That to me makes no sense at all. The NYPD are doing thier job, they handle crowd control for any large gathering, whether it is OWS or a concert at MSG. Did you expect them to say thank you when they get called pigs? They are doing thier job. Sure some get out of hand, but so do some OWS members.

If this movement is going to make any headway, OWs has got to learn to live with the laws of the land so to speak. If you want to be taken seriously and really make some change there has to be a civilized way to do it. It has got to stop with the Us vs them mentality. That kind of thinking only divides people. It does nothing to unite people in a cause. You can't just do whatever you want because you are pissed off at the world. We all have concerns, many of us have been working on personal levels on making small changes within our communities. There is an old saying.. you get more with honey than you do with vinegar. It really rings true.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Much of what you say is true; but that honey & vinegar line was written by someone in power who wanted to stay there. Being nice will get you nowhere with the 1%expenditures or with Wall Street. Those in power like things just as they are. As far as they are concerned, life is good. Things will have to become uncomfortable for them as incentive for change. It isn't going to happen by being sweet.

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[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Civil disobedience is a good thing. Not pushing the envelope will never lead to change. Those in control like things the way they are. A nice, tidy well behaved protest will achieve nothing. 700 people were arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge and people all over the world sat up and noticed.

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

They sat up, noticed and then sat back down. I want to see more in the way of concrete solutions. Marching on the bridge or in the streets at this point is going nowhere, other than landing way too many people in jail.
Ideally Id love to see a few rational people groomed to go before congress and the senate and make some real noise , and not in the way of the yelling and screaming, but rather a real sit down to see what can be done. Civil disobedience goes only so far. While people are standing in the streets , it is business as usual with this election coming up. That was something I had hoped would be stopped, or really brought to the front lines.

[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

Congress is owned by the 1% through corporate donations. Congress is immune to insider trading regulations. Once out of Congress, they have cushy high paying corporate jobs waiting for them. Why on earth would Congress deign to give OWS members a hearing? What could Congress possibly gain by such a thing?

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[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

The accounting page shows what the Finance (Accounting) WG wants you to believe the money was spent on. There is no backup data. An audit has never been done.

Even so, much of the money spent was simply frittered away. $5700 was spent on tea and herbs. $10,000 was spent on renovations for a house in East NY that turned out to be privately owned. Another $3000 went to a scam in Harlem disguised as predatory lending. And so on.

At this point OWS is in desperate need of a PR firm / image consultant to stop the damage to its image all this nonsense has caused. People read bad things and no one at OWS steps forward to refute or spin any of it. Fools from the Finance (Accounting) WG -- Dutro and Haywood say the stupidest things in the mainstream media and OWS detractors have a field day with it. And then 2 days later, these same 2 fools who can't bear to be out of the limelight step forward with more stupidity. It is self destruction.

[-] 1 points by spaik290 (-1) 2 years ago

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[-] 1 points by monjon22 (508) 2 years ago

I believe that the house was vacant went OWS took over the property under the assumption that a bank has foreclosed on the property.. Owner, Wise Ahadzi was living elsewhere. The police informed Mr. Adadzi that people were living in his house. The occupiers were forced to move.

[-] 1 points by BystanderDC (91) 2 years ago

I did not realize the occupiers were forced to move. Every news article implied they were still there.

[-] 1 points by freakyfriday (179) 2 years ago

Yup. Everything I read painted it as feint for a 'homeless', connected OWS muckity muck to get the house but they knocked down walls to make it an OWS FLOPHOUSE. Spent almost $10k of ows funds on it, too.

I can see why there has been no reasonable OWS response to this issue. It was a major FU. They oughta cut their losses and admit this. The coverup is always worse than the original sin.

[-] 1 points by BystanderDC (91) 2 years ago

Thanks for posting a link. I am still particularly frustrated that they have the house to a community organizer and his family. I still think the need to deoccupy the house and if they want to occupy it, they should help Mr. Ahadzi reoccupy his own house.

[-] 2 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I find it frustrating as well. I said it in the beginning that I didn't think this wasn't going to gain any points in the grand scheme of things. Everything wrong going on in this country isn't going to get rectified by lawless actions.

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[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

Dude if you think its ok to ever take someone esle's property then you belong back in communist Russia/

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

It was always a scam to begin with. OWS wasn't out to help a homeless family. It was only about getting someplace for the group to crash.

[-] 0 points by BystanderDC (91) 2 years ago

Wow. No comments. I see this is not issue with the movement. Sad really.

[+] -4 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

This does not surprise me. OWS is based on the principles of civil disobedience and direct action which essentially means they have no problem taking the law into their own hands.

I wish OWS was building what they wanted instead of taking or destroying the stuff of others. For example, instead of striking against businesses they don't like, I wish they would create and help others create the types of businesses they do like. If their ideas are good, they'll catch on and eventually replace what we have now.

Einstein didn't have to burn Newton's Laws of Motions to replace them with General Relativity. Similarly, we didn't have to shoot down propeller planes to replace them with jet planes.

Build something better and it will catch on. Attacking the stuff of others just makes people angry. Building amazing stuff is where it's at. Build it, and they will come.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-and-how-ows-must-change-or-onto-anarcho-syndic/