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Forum Post: OWS Pro Gun Control Paradox

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 16, 2012, 3:32 a.m. EST by freakyfriday (179)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Let's see. WHo is anti gun? I know, I know!! The ONE PERCENT!!!!

But, but, owsers on this website say guns are evil. Do you mean they are doing the heavy lifting for Bloomberg, Soros, Buffet, Hollywood Millionaires, Kerry, Clinton, Obama and all those other elitists who can afford armed guards who will be legal no matter what sort of gun control laws are passed that disregard the 2nd amendment?

Yep, seems so.

But, but, how can THAT be? OWS is AGAINST the 1%, right?

Well, they say they are, but frankly, they are nothing more than useful idiotsm but shhhhhh, don;t tell them that until after we disarm Amreica. After that, it really won't matter.

We already have cameras on every corner, drones in the sky and a complete record of all their internet and cellphone acitivity, BUT those pesky guns gotta go before we make our move.

50 Comments

50 Comments


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[-] 1 points by jorae28 (8) 1 year ago

I think OWS ... in my opinion ... would be for gun control. The 1% will walk over glass make a nickel, this is why we formed. We know this...The selling of AK's has no purpose, but the pursute of money. My want of control, is not all guns...and I think OWS feels that way too. But I do want less machine guns and stricture procedures to get any gun. So are we for or against? I think you have to state what guns you are talking about...it isn't that black and white

[-] 2 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

As best as I can determine OWS has no “official” stand on gun control. However, if this forum is any measure, owsers seem to be evenly split between heavy gun control and total confiscation of guns. It seems very few owsers here think we already have enough gun control.

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[-] -1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

There are very few machine guns in circulation. The so called 'assault weapon' is an imitation m-16 like the army uses. The so called assault weapon is merely a semi automatic rife. 1 bullet fired per pull of the trigger.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

guns are not going to save you from the new world order. only getting off your fat libertarian ass and taking it to the street will.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Dredging up an old post, but it's worthy of comment, QM.

Can you imagine what would happen if things actually got to the point where Jack and Jill Average hit the streets with their guns in a protest march against the cops?

It's probably a pre-requisite for a safe protest that nobody gets to bring a gun.

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

can you say fema camps.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Those camps will come in handy for the hordes of political hangers-on who will need accommodation after the revolution renders them the new homeless.

Gotta think ahead in this game.

[-] 0 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

91% for criminal background checks

82% want increased government spending on mental health programs

79% are for increased government spending for law enforcement and school officials for armed attacks

75% think criminal penalties should be increased for those buying guns for someone who hasn't passed background check

70% want the feds to spend $4 billion to help keep 15,000 police officers on the street

69% would like the government to spend $30 million to help schools develop emergency response plans

67% want to ban the possession of armor-piercing bullets by anyone other than the military or law enforcement

60% would strengthen the ban on assault weapons that expired in 2004

54% want to limit the sale of ammunition magazines to 10 rounds or less

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yep. I want your ass to have a criminal background check.

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[-] 0 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

I really cannot understand why so many so-called occupiers are anti gun. I also cannot understand why they keep posting about gun control... gun control will not tame wall street or end crony capitalism.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Probably for the same reason that you right wing fascist fucks keep posting about gun control.

[-] -1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

Wow. You are a real charmer, There are like 3 dozen anti gun posts on this forum and this appears to be the only pro(?) one I have seen. Take a chill pill, bitch.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Fuck you, little cockroach. You're lips are moving and that means you're lying.

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

The reason why so-called "occupiers" are anti gun is because the vast majority who are anti gun live in big cities where they have never been involved in firearms ownership but yet they think they know what's best for everyone else.

Conn just past one of the most restrictive gun laws on the books. Lets look at how things are going a year from now and compare their murder rates before and after the new laws - I will be willing to bet anyone that things aren't going to change.

[-] 0 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

Yeah, have yet to hear of any proposed law that will do squat about violence. Be it background checks or registration, criminals are not going to participate.

[-] 1 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

Lets see what happens in Conn. They just passed the most stringent gun laws in the country. I will be willing to bet that the youth firearm violence stats will be the same next year as they are this year if not higher.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

WTF? Where do you come up with this shit?

[-] 1 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

Actually, Stormcrow1 is more right than wrong. At least that’s how it seems to me,.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Pffttt.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

HA!, I always appreciate an honest response.

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

With the exception of very few people on this site the majority of people who post here don't know a whole lot about firearms ownership let alone state or federal laws pertaining to firearms ownership.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Save it. That's called overgeneralizing. If it sucks so bad, I'm sure you can find your way out.

[-] 1 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

I have found my way out by "educating myself abour firearms laws and firearms ownership" , which by the way, a lot of people who speak out about more gun control haven't.

They are the ones who live in "nanny states" and think it's the governments job to look after them.

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

They are the ones who live in "nanny states" and think it's the governments job to look after them. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink


And there you go again, fucking it all up. kind of like watching someone dive into a swimming pool with no water.

[-] -3 points by 2mult (-42) 1 year ago

You're an asshole. Shut the fuck up. You don't know jack shit about guns.

[-] 2 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

With a reply like that I must have hit a nerve. Care to make a wager to see who knows more about firearms?

If you can't back up what you spew you shouldn't be spewing it - you know nothing about me so to say I know "jack shit" about guns tells me you are letting your emotions over ride your ass.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Where did you go?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by 2mult (-8) 1 minute ago

You're an asshole. Shut the fuck up. You don't know jack shit about guns. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink


You're a fucking multiple ID cockroach. You don't know shit about anything. You shut the fuck up. You dumb fucking piece of shit.

[-] 1 points by Nationwide (-93) 1 year ago

Ladies please...

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I've already dealt with one dumb fucking bitch. This is going to be a walk in the park.

[-] 1 points by Nationwide (-93) 1 year ago

You are too smart to be using language like that. What would your daughter think?

[-] 0 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

Too smart? LOL I love sarcasm!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I seem to continuously outshine your dumb ass. Anytime you are ready lil' cockroach.

[-] -1 points by itsmyblood (10) 1 year ago

I stand by my comment.

[-] -3 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Violence is extremely ineffective.

Is it even possible to use a gun non violently?

Why can't you just stick your chewing gum on the cameras?

[-] -1 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

me
No paradox - just numbers & facts
Wacky wayne and other opponents of the expanded use of background checks to prevent firearms getting into the hands of felons and others who shouldn’t be allowed access to deadly weapons frequently make the argument that a criminal isn’t going to try to purchase a weapon legally, and that he or she will simply go to some inner-city street corner to buy an illegal gun.

In fact, background checks do work to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Between November 1998, and February 2013,


FBI statistics prove more than one million attempts to purchase weapons were denied as a result of federally-mandated background checks.


More than 58 percent of these denials were due to the applicant being convicted of a crime punishable by more than one year or a misdemeanor punishable by more than two years.
Another 10 percent were due to the applicant being convicted of a Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence Conviction.
Almost 10 percent were fugitives from justice. Many were arrested when they came back to pick up their gun!

Yet, it is estimated that 40 percent of all gun sales are transacted without any background check at all because of loopholes such as the gun show rule, in which a private gun owner can sell a gun to another private person at a gun show without any check at all.

There’s no need to look for the apocryphal street corner —
just head for the nearest gun show.
We need universal background checks now.

Robert Checchio

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

91% of Americans want more gun control


GUNS – Facts & numbers & opinion & solution


FACTS: There is little difference between a gun owner and a gun buyer
There is no difference between a gun owned and a gun bought
The constitution does give some people the right to “bear some arms”
More Americans ( in absolute numbers & per capita ) are killed by guns than in almost any other country ( USA 11,000+; England 35 )
Almost no hunters hunt with semi-automatic weapons

“Assault weapon” is a term well defined in law but not well understood
Legislatures & courts ( including SCOTUS ) have set numerous limits on the 2nd amendment’s right to “bear arms”
Just like legislatures & courts ( including SCOTUS ) have set numerous limits on the 1st amendment’s right to “free speech” [ no “fire in a crowded theatre” ]

You can buy a revolver arm but not a grenade launcher arm
A 9 year old cannot buy a shotgun
Australia & England both passed strict new gun control laws –
………and drastically cut their gun deaths
The nra uses its members to sell guns for the gun manufacturers
It is illegal to drive an un-registered car
It is illegal to drive if you are un-licensed
It is illegal to drive an un-insured car

The 1994 “assault weapons ban” did not work because it did NOT ban assault weapons – it only banned their sale or manufacture.


OPINIONS
The real problem never discussed: It is not the gun sellers or the gun buyers –
or even the guns - it is the gun OWNERS

I would divide most gun deaths into five categories:
the Sandy Hook mass murderers,
drug related street crime,
non-drug related street crime,
“personal” crimes of anger,
suicide.
Consider each one - all would be reduced if we reduced the number of guns ( and legalized drugs ). The complex, conflicting state laws and the huge number of guns owned by Americans makes confiscation ( that no one is advocating ) totally unfeasible

We need a uniform federal gun law
The “mental health” issue is an nra stall – unless they agree that everyone who OWNS a gun must be psychoanalyzed and certified “safe to own guns”.
The nra’s “American culture is different” is another stall – most countries have hunters, violent movies, citizen owned guns, violent video games, drugs.

Background checks & closing the gun show loophole will help –
but ONLY with new sales –
it does nothing about OWNERS – and there are 100,000,000 of them. If just 1/10 of 1% of them are crazy, that’s 10,000 crazy gun OWNERS!


SOLUTION: Based on reducing guns, not confiscation

1►
learn as much as you can about the numbers that prove what the solutions are

2►
demand a plan:

http://www.youtube.com/user/maigcoalition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za8SOVuGHs&list=UUu4Q7iE0z1Jw7yUjs56dvXA&index=1

alex jones – without his straight jacket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg&feature=endscreen&NR=1

multi-millionaire gun manufacturer wayne lapierre who works for koch brothers & gets paid over $1,000,000 / year
to get his army of lemmings to keep buying guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dar6K2STVVQ

3►
DO: WRITE CONGRESS:

find your congresspeople

house:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
senate:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm
VP Joe Biden, Gun Panel, 1600 Pennsylvania Av, Washington DC 20006


╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬


Dear ............................:

[ _ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E_ ]

While some people may want to confiscate guns, I don’t.
Here is a much more feasible approach.
It will not solve all gun problems, but it will
reduce the number of guns
and that will reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns -
and isn't THAT our real goal?

My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.

Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our 11,000+ gun disasters:


1►
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.

If you own a motor cycle, a dump truck, and a car - you are tested in each.
Require a written gun test - to guarantee the owner's understanding of gun laws
thus being forced to know the law - via the test – also means the police know who you are -
and you may be less likely to commit a crime or be careless when storing your guns

2►
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.

Insurance should be at least as high as car insurance [ I would like at least $1,000,000 ]
You must prove your car insurance.
Require an annual back ground check ( with fee ) to verify your suitability to own guns.
Every gun must be locked in a gun case or have a trigger lock.

3►
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.

You are required to report if your gun is missing within 48 hours,
The owner will be much less likely to leave a gun accessible to a family member or thief.

4►
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police

Knowing that your gun & its bullets are so easily traced will make you think before using it.

additionally -

Over ten bullet magazines are illegal to own { 2nd amendment has no relevance }

Gun fees [ licenses fees & registration fees & fines ] should be
high enough to create a very substantial gun buy-back program ($100-$500 / year)

Penalties must be very high in money ( equal to ten years fees ) & jail time -
especially after the first offense

No citizens ( except dealers & collectors ) need more than a small number of guns

Gun fees should be higher for more guns & for bigger guns.

But the nra may be in favor of this when the gun companies understand that gun owners
can get paid to turn in their old gun and will be able to buy a new gun -
with an INTEGRATED lock .

If we legalize drugs, we will clear out jail cells to fill with gun law breakers and
free up police "time" for real crime investigation

We WILL get higher compliance and lower opposition if we use high fees & buyback.

Take a position of reducing guns, like assault weapons such as semi-automatic rifles -
rather than punishing a gun nut who spent $10,000 on an armory.

LBJ proposed a gun plan similar to the above 4 point plan


Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:

Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: England.…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: France….: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides Per 100,000


http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/rft-annual-trend-and-demographic-tables-2011-12.xls
The above link is to England police statistics - see table D19

The nra & its trolls are claiming that we will fail, where England & Australia succeeded in reducing gun deaths substantially by legislation.


Statistics clearly prove that the number of guns in a state or in a country adds to the risk of homicides.

More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.

When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.

In 2011, there were 11,000+ gun homicides in America
In 2011, there were 35 gun deaths in England

For 2011, the average Murder Rate in Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1

For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9

VERY IMPORTANT:
▬► The 1994 gun "ban" did NOT ban assault weapons.
▬►It banned the MANUFACTURE of assault weapons.
▬►For $300 you can buy a legal accessory to make an AR15 fully automatic (800rpm)

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said that there are "undoubtedly" limits to a person's right to bear arms under the Second Amendment, but that future court cases will have to decide where to draw the line. That line could be between you and an AR15.


And of course if we stopped money going from advocacy groups & corporations to buy politicians, this would be a very big step in the right direction
Watch our videos: Hedges, Kucinich, Warren, Chomsky , Sanders ,
Romney, Reich, Hartmann, Maddow, Nader, Feingold, Jefferson
And read our analysis of Corporate Personhood & Citizens United & evaluate the national polls that prove the truth. See the new HJR29


http://corporaionsarenotpeople.webuda.com

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Anyone who is pro-gun is pro American. Anyone who is anti-gun is pro freedom.

Both parties and the majority of Americans are pro gun, pro military and pro violence.

It seems to me that OWS should fall on side of advocating for freedom and not violence.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Gun control is not about disarming America. Period. The world doesn't revolve around your paranoia.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

Yes, It is. I understand you don’t believe that. But the fact is a lot of people really want to take away ALL guns. What you’re calling paranoia is a valid response to those who want ALL guns gone. Gun owners know the endgame is to incrementally legislate ALL guns out of existence. They know if they give an inch the gun grabbers will take a mile.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

No. This is where I point out that the second amendment was incorporated.

Then you say that you understand that but that there are people who keep making statements to the press.

Then I say that it doesn't matter.

Then you say that they will be taking away your guns because you will refuse to register them.

It really hasn't been long enough.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

I'm sorry, but I must ask you if it's true that every time there's another sink hole in Florida, a whole bunch of you guys come crawling out repeating the same nonsense?

Will you be going on about agenda 21 soon too?

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

So you don't want to take ALL the guns away. I've read a number of your posts where you advocate taking all guns. Am I wrong?

[-] 0 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

Just from bozos that think liberals are out to get them and lame'o's that believe in the agenda 21 bullshit, and stuff like that.

They don't think clearly enough to own guns for any reason at all.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

I had to look up what agenda 21 was. Still don't understand what the UN has to do with you wanting to take MY guns.

Also, it's true the gun grabbers want ALL guns. You just admitted as much. Are we clear now?

[-] 0 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

Nope we aren't.

You shouldn't have any access. You suffer from paranoid delusions.

Do have any idea what brought those on?

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

Listen, It’s perfectly normal to sit in the closet and fondle my guns. It’s not nice to bully us just because we have a fetish.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17722) 1 year ago

The fetish doesn't bother me as much as the delusions.

When did they first start occurring?

[-] -1 points by freakzilla3 (-75) 1 year ago

I like the cut of your jib. It's better than the cut of his gibberish.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Gun abolition is about freedom.

Gun control promotes criminality by forcing illegal guns further underground.