Forum Post: OWS operating behind our backs - the Demands Committee and the Constitution Committee
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 2:27 p.m. EST by precipice
(220)
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In the leaked OWS emails, there is apparently a "Demands Committee" and a "Constitution Committee."
See here for the email discussing these committees: http://owsmail.dc406.com/OWSMailList_3254.html
The article about the email leak is reported by Gawker here http://gawker.com/5850025/right+wing-rabble+rouser-leaks-thousands-of-occupy-wall-street-emails
So, I'm not sure why we aren't being involved in this? How do I get involved in these committees, and how are the members selected? I've voiced my concerns before about how I'm suspicious that OWS is internally run by Adbusters and that the owners of OccupyWallSt.org are intentionally keeping their identities secret. (We don't know who runs this site, for instance). Their motives are unknown at this point and perhaps over time will be revealed.
I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with closed-door Demands and Constitution committees making decisions for us. This should be a 100% transparent process. We are becoming the beast that we oppose.
separately, i wanted to plug a website that is democratically driven, transparent, independent, and unaffiliated with any group (not even adbusters or other radical human rights groups, what have you). it is the occupy resistance network at http://www.occupyr.com/, so be sure to check that out as well as it's just getting started.
Have you been to Zucotti park?
If so, were you explicitly told you couldn't participate?
The working groups meet in person. Not on the internet.
Quote from that email you linked to:
" however the demands committee meeting is sunday at 2pm by the red cube A"
Show up~!
Firstly, those emails were not originally made public. The meeting time & place were intended to be private for "those in the inner circle." This is a small local group of people, unpublicized and unannounced, making decisions for the "99% of us," and that's disconcerting. And quite frankly, in a democratic movement, there are no places for secrets.
Secondly, many people can't make it to NYC. (I can, and next time perhaps I will). But, we need to include everyone, so that we all have a voice. This was the original problem, remember? At the very least, inform us of what is going on and what the purpose behind these committees are.
To the barricades, mon amis!
You dont need OWS to act. Spread information to everyone you know regarding such things as-
The Fed...specifically the GAO report released this week
The criminal activities of th ebig banks
Political influence of corporations
Ideas for withdrawing from major banks, boycotts, etc
Non of us know how this is going to turn out. But I do know OWS would do much better if the country had a manager that understood the cause. That person is Ron Paul. He agrees with OWS on many issues and wants to again reform a government that is for the people by the people. Occupy Wall Street has done a spectacular job of demonstrating the unfairness of government. And, OWS has put a spot light on corporations that negatively impact our people and the world. Unfortunately, there isn't anyone I know of within OWS running for an office that could make a difference. If Ron Paul were elected many of our grievances would immediately be resolved and we could get on the road to recovery. I think this will be our last chance to bring about the necessary change peacefully.
PLEASE VOTE RON PAUL
agreed Regardless of everyone's political feelings or agendas the fact of the matter is this. There will be a president elected in 2012 and right now there only seems to be 3 choices we either get Obama or Romney, two establishment candidates who have each taken millions of dollars from wall street(which in my opinion is no choice at all) Or OWS gets behind his already strong grassroots fallowing and we elect Dr.Paul who not only has similar ideas but would be more likely to make OWS inspired concessions than the other two.
I'd bet 500 dollars this post is by a Breitbart operative and not by someone with a genuine interest in being a part of OWS.
This post is simply about being aware of corruption and power struggles, even in our midsts. And transparency. I'm convinced that transparency solves everything. And we don't have that here.
"I've voiced my concerns before about how I'm suspicious that OWS is internally run by Adbusters and that the owners of OccupyWallSt.org are intentionally keeping their identities secret. "
"separately, i wanted to plug a website that is democratically driven, transparent, independent, and unaffiliated with any group (not even adbusters or other radical human rights groups, what have you)."
Um, no. This is the language used by the haters: "it's some secretly run organization that supports Obama." "it's some secretly run organization being manipulated by AdBusters."
If you want to know what the process looks like, there is a LOT of transparency about how #OWS functions. If you don't understand how it works, you need to educate yourself. Or, perhaps you have a different agenda. Either way, this smells very troll-ish.
Regardless of your real agenda, I do think that there should be a clear line of input digitally. This movement is more than about the brave people in Zuccotti Park, but it will need an Internet strategy, because #OWS really is, ultimately, not about a physical space. Not sure that the core #OWS is "there" yet...
Peace.
Groobiecat
BTW1: This is what horizontal Democracy looks like: http://groobiecat.blogspot.com/2011/10/how-ows-functions-horizontal-direct.html
Man, you talk about a slippery slope. I don't get it. A Demands and Constitution committee meeting behind closed doors to do what? Better yet how did these groups get set up? Man, Man you go down that road it will eventually lead you right back to where we are now. The changes need to be bold! I don't think our Occupy Wall Street Countrymen & woman have come this far to just to get whatever we can. It is our country not the Demands and Constitution committee's country. I would vote to dismantle those group's now!
Agreed however no matter what form of government you choose not everyone will get what they want, That is impossible. The fact of the matter is there does need to be some narrowing of the demands to focus our agenda and like it or not there does need to be at least a loosely knit group of advisers that can keep everyone on message and keep all the groups with ulterior motives out.
Yes, you get what I'm talkin' 'bout. We don't need no closed-door meetings. s'what got is into this mess in the first place. we gotta realize, many of us are still stuck in that old mindset of the profit & games of capitalism, and there are those amongst us who don't truly believe in the movement 100 percent. they wanna sell us out and profit for themselves quick, and then you can watch this movement die with everything we've all struggled for. they're not truly in this "to the end," only until they can exit with a return on investment.
now, let's hope such people are not in these "committees." if they are, we got a problem.
Again I agree about the close door meetings as far as making decisions but we do need to get organized , Im not talking a single figure head but we need to get everyone on message there are people who have demands that are so all over the place that there is no way we can hope to accomplish them all especially since what you must take into account is this fact and Im putting it in caps to stress the importance not to yell my opinions OUR ENEMY, THE 1%, IS HIGHLY ORGANIZED. WITHOUT AT LEAST MODERATE ORGANIZATION WE CANNOT HOPE TO ACHIEVE VICTORY OVER SUCH A MACHINE WITH ITS VAST AMOUNT OF RESOURCES.
Making "demands"? Using what leverage? Demands to who? "Demands" are way premature at this stage.
I wouldn't be surprised if OWS were to publish a blog post akin to "A List of Our Demands." And start listing a things, some that I agree to and some that I never agreed to. We may not have leverage, but some team out there "the Demands Committee" and "Constitution Committee" are working on something.
I want to know what their process is, and I want minutes of the meetings. I want to be able to vote on the topics. In the worst case, they have alterior motives and are an inner 1% circle composed of professional radicalists from various organizations. In the best case, they are trying to sum up the forum posts into something comprehensible - but even still, they may be wrong and off-target.
This process needs to be democratically driven.
Have you all seen this too? Is it real?
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home/the-steps-to-non-violent-revolution
These guys are self-appointing themselves as the "Executive Committee." This is no different than dictators seizing power in times of unrest.
Here's a quote from the site: "We are a group of college students and pro bono lawyers... we have established an Occupy Wall Street "Working Group" to prepare a proposal to elect an Executive Committee."
On their site, they begin arbitrarily listing demands such as
"New comprehensive regulations to give the Environmental Protection Agency the power to shut down corporations"
"Immediate passage of the Dream Act and comprehensive immigration and border security reform"
As far as I recall, this movement is not about the EPA or Immigration. They are pushing their own liberal viewpoints. Not that I necessarily disagree with their demands concerning EPA and immigration, but this is unjustified. And these sorts of arbitrary demands and seizing of power, attempting to bottle up the masses' voices and filter it through themselves to suit whatever fits a few individuals, is what I'm afraid of happening to this movement.
HI Precipice. Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I was wondering if this was in fact a legitimate production of OWS.
If it is, which I still dont know if it is or not, it does say that this would be an attempt as solely making a 'Committee for Correspondence' to the 3 branches of government. If you read about when a Committee for Correspondence was used previously in our national history, it was during the separation of the colonies from the crown, and these people were elected for the people, by the people, as a transition government from crown. But, the most important thing is that it was first brought to the people for their position on the formation of a committee to represent them.
I agree, it would be of utmost importance to me that it represent ONLY the interest of those who would elect those individuals, and not the interest of the individuals themselves. In fact, the folks that wrote this letter would have to be exempt from running for office. I think that would be the safest way to make this truly democratic, right?
I find it an interesting and potentially useful plan if this is true.
The way I see it, this is a popular movement, so if you want to be involved in determining the demands of OWS all you have to do is make your opinion known, and if a large group of people agree on a demand they want, OWS will be forced to at least listen. With that in mind, you can go to http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-economic-agenda-for-ows/ to join in on a conversation about what goals you think OWS should have.
Well, here's my issue. There is an inner circle who are making decisions behind the curtains. I want to know who they are.
Simply, I want transparency.
That should not be something I should have to ask for, especially in this group.
I agree, and most will. Which is exactly why having an open discussion about what the OWS'ers want, rather than a closed doors committee seems to me to be a good plan. If the OWS people get behind a popular plan, then it won't matter whether OWS leaders present a conflicting plan, as popular opinion will already be headed in a different direction. So join the discussion and help the people decide OWS goals, rather than a leadership appointed committee.
Let me know also...thanks
Lot of us are demanding that we should concentrate in Washington DC where the change can happen. There are forces which try to avoid to take it to the current government and we not gaining anything in New York. It will be soon people like me will give up. I do not who is listing the demands.
Something just occurred to me.
OccupyWallSt.org is likely run by Adbusters, founded by Kalle Lasn. Kalle has a history of anti-jewism. (see here for source http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/10/13/occupy-wall-street-kalle-lasn/) So, it may be that he is trying to derail the New York top-elite Jewish, rather than trying to actually fix anything at all in America. We definitely need more movement in Washington DC.