Forum Post: OWS nominate a presidential candidate?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 24, 2011, 8:35 a.m. EST by Bugger
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Is it within OWS aspirations to nominate a US presidential candidate for the 2012 election? I hope so. If the OWS movement can invigorate enough citizens by next Summer, such a candidate can conceivably get in the race via a third party. Although it's unlikely this candidate will win the election, his/her presence in national debates would give a very strong and inspiring voice to the OWS movement.
To quote this very page, "we don't need wall street and we don't need politicians to build a new society." Look in a mirror. We are all leaders.
Well said! How the hell do you get people to understand that OWS is not a political movement...its as if many of these OPs are intellectually constipated and cannot get this idea through their cranial colon.
The unfortunate thing is that many people who contribute to this forum and who are genuinely supportive of OWS have never been to an occupation, which is really, basically, the only way to fully understand what OWS is all about.
If the OWS movement endorses a candidate, two things will most likely happen... First, the movement will fracture, after all the political spectrum is far too wide for one candidate, unless the candidate is a mannequin covered in post it notes... Second, the candidates defeat will result in a popular defeat of the movement itself, at least to the publics eye.
In other words, throwing away any kind of mandate, real or imagined.
My suggestion would be to either push for a concerted 3rd party individual, not one, but ANY. In other words, encourage the death of the 2 party system, and not just presidential, but every election, down to dog catcher.
From a political point of view, choose one candidate, you loose, choose a third party (Green/Tea/whatever) then every third party candidate win is a win for everyone...
What are we loosing here, anyway? I don't get it. Are we loosing the party or the candidate? And, is the loosing at a someone or a group of someone's?
Whether or not it will ever be a good idea for OWS to enter the field of electoral politics, right now it is way to premature to do so. In spite of how enthusiastic OWS activists are (including me), at this point the activist base of OWS is simply not large enough to be effective in the field of electoral politics and when it does become effective i suspect that will be at the state level first or perhaps at the level of Congressional Districts.
I can't say what others can or should do but I plan to Write-In Elizabeth Warren for president in the Democratic primary as a protest against 1. Bloody Barack Obama and 2. the fact that the Democrats are not giving America a democratic primary choice for president.
Elizabeth Warren is hated and feared by Wall Street which makes her the best choice anyone can make for president of the United States of America.
Please do it! I think an OWS Presidential Nominee would detract enough votes from Obama to garuntee a Republican President!
American Elect is in full swing.
http://www.americanselect.org/
this movement is a movement of individualism and not of a leader. we as a people must exist in corporate ran lifes becuase liberty is not allowed to stand. the constitution was written to govern the government and not the people. greed has become the interest of politics and will exist without laws prohibiting it.
Waste of time and votes. Lobby your friends and family to vote out AL incumbents. Better to get rid of Professional Politicians than fail at a 3rd party try.
Something very similar occurred long ago... most of you are probably too young to remember the movement, and political party started by Ross Perot in the early 1990's. His movement was called United We Stand America, and it was a Citizen Action Organization. It was a lot like the OWS movement in many ways.
Even though Ross is a billionaire businessman, he was keenly aware of the corrupt influences of the lobbyist. He fought to remove political action committees or PACS from government. He fought against NAFTA and the outsourcing of America's manufacturing jobs. He proclaimed that outsourcing would destroy the American economy. He was adamant about the federal deficit, and often referred to it as "some crazy old aunt that lived in the basement", and that no one wanted acknowledge it was there.
He ultimately formed his third party (UWSA) and spent over 12 million dollars of his own money to campaign. He ran for President of the United States, and one point led in the polls at 39% over the candidates. He did very well in the debates, and had many followers. Ultimately, he was discredited by the very lobbyist that he wanted to eliminate. They spent millions in campaigns targeting his credibility, and were successful in that endeavor.
Almost every single thing that Ross preached against almost two decades ago has become reality today... from the deficit... to the outsourcing... and finally to the corruption and negative influence of the lobbyist!
Today's OWS movement reminds me a lot of that time in history. Maybe, a third party solution could eventually be attempted again. I'm sure the same thing would happen again in terms of the Lobbyist and Corporations opposing it, and throwing money around in an effort to eliminate it.
I didn't spend one minute on politics till Perot came along. I don't want to see another 2 decades go by without significant changes. I think OWS/99 party is the solution who's time has come. As outlined in the 99% Declaration, congress will be a foundaton for rebuilding America by 2016. And that will ignite the imaginations of 99% of 7 billion people.
You are 100% correct AFTK! This nation will not survive for another two decades without the citizens of this country regaining control of democracy!
thanks, did you see my reply to Bella just below?
I would rather see the efforts go to changing the face of Congress ... it matters not which party, if the individual is not an ideologue but is a reasonable, thinking person who can make decisions based on considering various options and choosing the most likely one. Ideology interferes with this. We need "idea-logy" -- as in ideal -- rather than ideology, as in idiot.
It's pretty obvious to more and more people that the two parties that have been running the show, especially when looking back 35-40 years, have both been corrupted. An independent 3rd party, backed by 'the 99%' could evict every single R and D from congress. Have you read the 99% Declaration? https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Yes, I just read it again, and it has come together very well. I do hope there are enough of us who want change to pull this off. Ross Perot (discussed by tbuontempo below) was a focal point for the opposition. Perhaps it will be more difficult for any opposing force to target an entire movement (except as they always do, appealing to the "clean folks" about the "dirty hippies."). I would hope that if people see nasty ads depicting dreadful, scary things about the OWS folks, they will react to them as they have reacted to wanton pepperspraying. Shock, horror and more support for the movement. In the past, third parties have not worked. However, in the past, there was never the kind of access to each other and to the truth as there is now. Everything happens faster. So, power to the people!
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The OWS movement must remain a movement for now, and not become involved in the current the political structure. Having been a supporter from day one, and having spoking to large numbers at our occupation and on the marches, I am of the opinion many of our comrades need detailed personal and group education as to what this movement means, and what it can do.
The process of re-shaping the political, social and cultural landscape will be long and arduous. We are at the beginning of this very long process, and are far from the point where people in our movement, and the general public, have a deep understanding of what we are doing in this movement. If OWS moves to fast, we will incorporate into our movement the norms of the current political structure. To do this would only lead to a degenerated OWS movement.
We must continue to march and occupy. We must begin the long process of reshaping the psychological understanding people have of social, political and cultural relationships, what they are, and what they can be changed into. The physical act of marching and occupying together will build a deep camaraderie among those in our movement. The act of being together, struggling together, occupying together will build among all occupiers a deep trust and understanding as well as educate many that we are in a police state. It will create a bond, and deep understanding that we need complete structural change.
The act of marching against the police state builds strength. The act of occupying builds strength. The strength in a struggle. This will build a psychological understand of what needs to be done, it clears up the why. As time moves on, the occupiers will begin to inherently see in political figures who they are, who they really represent, and what this movement must change. I know we all see this right now in many aspects, but it goes much deeper. This is why some slip up in interviews with the media. When this process comes to occupied wide fruition, the corporate capitalist press will stop interviewing all of us. Because it supports will not understand the answers.
In discussions in Liberty Square, solutions to political questions are suggested using the current political superstructure for change. It is not the process of the system that is at fault. It is the system. We must end this capitalist system in all its forms. It is not just the current economic system that is the problem, but all the form(s) of the system that must be ended. The system has created a pathological view among the people, and a pathological outlook of the world. The movement must work to ingrain the details of the deep rooted failure and lies of the system into the general population. The current structure is extremely well organized in its ability to distract people from the truth of its failures. The movement must create a deep rooted understanding among the occupiers the "why" the system must be undone: its violence, its imperialism, its poverty, it destruction of our economy, our ecology, and our social system. We have to change all social relationships, all of them. This is a long and detailed process in and of itself. It will not be done overnight.
If a "leader" rose up now, before we have a strong comprehension of what the post-bourgeois capitalist society will look like, the leader will be co-oped by the current political framework.
We should not run or endorse any candidate for a very long time. The occupiers who feel the need to vote should not be discouraged, if this can be done in a calculated manner, but should be very prudent in their decisions. There our large numbers of politicians that want to co-op this movement.
Build a new political political superstructure within the movement, then everything else will become self evident.
'solutions to political questions are suggested using the current political superstructure for change. It is not the process of the system that is at fault. It is the system. We must end this capitalist system in all its forms.'
Crony-capitalism is one problem, corruption in politics is another, but they are related. Could you be more precise when you say "a very long time"? We're gonna wake up homeless in the country our forefathers conquered if we wait any longer.
I'm a farmer. I know a good machine from a crappy one (read Egypt). But a good machine in the hands of a lousy operator leads to damaged equipment and loss of crop leading to debts and hunger. We're coming out with better machines all the time but keeping the machine I have running productively means I can acquire a state-of-the-art machine sooner. So let's fix the machine we have (the ballot box is your tool box) while we discuss the new machine.
The question of having a leader will come up in 2015 but #occupying congress is the focus at this time. Have you read the 99% Declaration?
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
AFTK,
First, you wrote: "Crony-capitalism is one problem, corruption in politics is another, but they are related. Could you be more precise when you say "a very long time"? We're gonna wake up homeless in the country our forefathers conquered if we wait any longer."
I do not think this movement will come to fruition until a large segment of the population has, literally, changed the scope and form of how we as a people think about politics. The young officers, influenced by the ideas that lead to the French revolution, who came back to Russia from the occupation of France, 10 years after the defeat of Napoleon, started a rebellion, the Decemberist uprising, in 1826. This was the first in a series of events that lead to 1918.
I hope it does not take that long here. But after many conversations at Liberty square, including yesterday at the Thanksgiving dinner, I can say without reservation, we have a long way to go. I have no idea how long.
Our movement must work to first and foremost educate the occupiers as to the how, why and what regarding new systems of political thought.
Second, You wrote: "I'm a farmer. I know a good machine from a crappy one (read Egypt). But a good machine in the hands of a lousy operator leads to damaged equipment and loss of crop leading to debts and hunger. We're coming out with better machines all the time but keeping the machine I have running productively means I can acquire a state-of-the-art machine sooner. So let's fix the machine we have (the ballot box is your tool box) while we discuss the new machine."
Part of my argument from point one is we as a movement are not ready to take over from the "lousy operator." The current machine is also broken to a point where it is beyond repair. This is a long argument, but when you consider the coming ecological changes in the next decades, market system ideas will not hold the answer to the problems we have in our society, much less the problems we are going to have in the future.
Third, you wrote: "The question of having a leader will come up in 2015 but #occupying congress is the focus at this time. Have you read the 99% Declaration?"
Yes and I understand the frustration, and can understand all the reasons for the grievances.
But the framework of the proposed National Assembly is nothing more than a reconstitution of the current political system. Keep in mind, the current 435 district system is not even remotely democratic. Montana has 1 million people and three votes in the electoral college. NJ has 9 million and 14 votes. No exactly democracy, which is why I am surprised they choose to use the districts to set up the National Assembly. It is build on an anti-democracy concept.
NO MORE REPRESENTATIVES. With the psychological make up of the current power structure and populous, this National Assembly would be co-oped in a generation, in my opinion.
I am completely opposed to borrowing from the current system: Philadelphia, the remaking of the arguments by the founders of the US against the British Crown, and the obvious pandering to the founding fathers experience. All that is missing is minutemen. We need to break from the system, not attempt to reshape its political forms. This movement must create a new system.
We need Direct Democracy. The movement must begin the long term education of people toward a new idea and popular concept of politics . I believe we are stuck with the current system for a while, though we do not have to participate, or we can participate and work towards it demise.
The long term struggle of this movement should be based on one single purpose, to undermine this system in all its forms: the social, political, cultural, and most importantly, economic structures. We must work to bankrupt the entire banking and finance system. Since economic relationship create our social conditions, the path to be followed will be obvious as it unfolds.
Even though I do not relish the idea of homeless, the experience would create a hardened core of people. People who struggle together to survive, like in Occupations, build a social bond. The political structure will in part be formed from this bond. "Obamavilles" would create the place and space to begin the education of the people. I do not really think it will come to that, at least I hope the odds are small, some economists are predicting a massive downturn, but in any case, this would be an arena to build a strong militant core.
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They would lose by embarassing margins. You would quickly find out that you do not represent 99%.
Occupy Wall Street is nothing more then a collection of anger. It is a negative force that aims at destroying, rather then creating. You cannot win on anger.
it has created this: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ any thoughts? 2016 could well be a very different story
The problem with the declaration is that it states "We, the 99% of the American Population" as if it truly represented the thoughts and feelings of 99% of the people. The rallying cry of "we are the 99%" is a little misleading, but "we are part of the 99%" doesn't have the same zing to it.
If you are going to have a movement that impacts 100% of the US population, then 100% of the population should have input. You can't disregard someone's thoughts and ideas based on how much money they have - that would be no different than excluding people because of how little money they have. Granted, that is all theoretical - if the 99% stick together, the 1% will certainly be outvoted.
Yes they will. They will certainly be outvoted. Not fair? To this I would say, perhaps they should of thought about that before our country became so corrupt. If the 1% were able to govern themselves properly, we would not have to do it for them.
"we would not have to do it for them" - so you are saying that the 1% should not have a say in how they are governed?
Actually... the 1% would have a the same say as the 99%! That is how Democracy works... the Majority rules!
Those who can govern themselves would not be affected by any law or regulation passed to prevent corruption and the abuse of the citizens of this country. So, why would they fight against any such measure?
The Republi-Crats (Rs and Ds) have been impacting the 100% and looking at the last 35-40 years and seeing where it's gotten us, it appears that only those with money, the 1% and the corporations are the only voices being heard in Washington. I think the 99 would be equally interested in what 100% of the people (and NOT corps - Citizens United case) have to say
You're right, it will be a different story. A republican will have taken office. The economy will have turned around. Liberals will once again shift their anger from the economy to blaming the republicans for something else, like maybe war. By then, Occupy Wall Street will be no more, and this conversation will never have happened.
Did you read the Declaration?
Yes, and my first comment is that it is a lie. You don't represent the 99%. Unitl you properly label your movement, your work will never be credible.
I think Jill Stein would be worth a look. She already has a third party association - Green Party National Committee. But they seem to be a nice match with OWS. And it would fit with theme of OWS not having a leader. Could be allies.
The Green Party of the United States is a federation of state Green Parties. Committed to ecology, social justice grassroots democracy and non-violence, Greens are renewing democracy in the United States through community-based organizing without the support of corporate donors.
Greens provide real solutions for real problems. Whether the issue is universal health care, corporate globalization, alternative energy, election reform or decent, living wages for workers, Greens have the courage and independence necessary to take on the powerful corporate interests opposed to reform.
The Federal Elections Commission recognizes the Green Party of the United States as the official Green Party National Committee. The Green Party of the United States is also a member of the Federation of Green Parties of the Americas and the Global Greens.
The highest Green Party decision making body is the Green National Committee, composed of delegates from each accredited state party and caucus. We are grassroots activists, environmentalists, advocates for social justice, nonviolent resisters and regular citizens who've had enough of corporate-dominated politics. We devote our attention to establishing a national Green presence in politics and policy debates, while continuing to facilitate party growth and action at the state and local level.
The Green Party of the United States was formed in 2001 as an outgrowth of the Association of State Green Parties (1996-2001). Our initial goal was to help existing state parties grow and to promote the formation of parties in all 51 states and colonies. Helping state parties is still our primary goal. Our growth has been rapid since our founding and Green candidates are winning elections throughout the U.S.
I'd like to see every 3rd party in the USA (15-20 of them last i checked) rally behind the 99. See you in Philly : )
Yes, there are a lot of third parties. One of the reasons they can't break through is it puts one or the other of the current parties in jeopardy. If Jill Stein runs, she and Obama would be competing for votes, and that would probably hand the election to whoever the republican nominee is. The Electoral College system sucks. We need a different voting system.
Isn't that basically all that makes up the OWS? You know the U.S. Communist Party, The U.S. Nazi Party, The Black Panther Party, The Green Party, Etc...
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I like this idea. Who has a candidate in mind?
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We have nothing to do with politics. This is a spontaneous Movement that finds its strenght from his genuinity. We have no demand to present to the politicians. We pursue a new vision of the world and it's not a political one. Be careful. Don't fall in these traps.
We beat the drum of our 1st Amendment right to peaceably assemble but we refuse to beat the drum of our 1st Amendment right to petition the government for a redress of grievances? How can you say that it has nothing to do with politics? I'm all in favour of a world beyond politics poverty and war but exactly how are we going to get there if we don't have any political machinery?
I'm a farmer. I know a good machine from a crappy one (read Egypt). But a good machine in the hands of a lousy operator leads to damaged equipment and loss of crop leading to debts and hunger. We're coming out with better machines all the time but keeping the machine I have running productively means I can acquire a state-of-the-art machine sooner. So let's fix the machine we have (the ballot box is your tool box) while we discuss the new machine.
In the past "politics" meant the govern of the City-States (the greek "polis"). Now it's just an instrument to enrich the elites through lies and corruption in order to mantain the status quo. Today the politics has destroyed the democracy. So, if the situation doesn't change, we'll have a mondial dictatorships of the money. We can govern ourselves without representatives and to do that we need just two means: the Referendum and Internet. The machine we have can produce only damages. Then there's no time left to fix it.
I am not aware of this Referendum. please explain.
The referendum is an istrument of direct democracy written in the italian Costitution. When a group of citizen thinks that a law isn't favourable to people, collect 500.000 signatures and ask for its abrogation. In the next six months the italians are called to vote Yes or Not. If the majority is for the abrogation, the law is abrogated. This year we have told NO to the nuclear, to the private water and to a lot of other stupid laws. To be sure that the italians will vote for the abrogation, before the request of the referendum we talk on line for a month about the subject. Switzerland is a country governed by people. As a matter of fact there all the problems are resolved by the means of the referendum.
Referenda are just another fucked up aspect of the system and way more than 90% of the time the side that wins on any referenda is the side that spends the most money
Perhaps it is so in the States. In Italy it is not so and we are glad to use this wondeful instrument of direct democracy. However how are you so angry? I've just replied to Afarewelltokings. I didn't want compel you to use it
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Obama
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Movement does not have a leader. We should have a list of qualifications then search for the most qualified to run this country. I am tired of the unqualified running this country.
Leader isn't the call yet, but there is a call for delegates if your interested: http://occupywallst.org/forum/update-on-the-99-declaration-and-the-national-gene/
There is nothing to lead. This movement is nothing but a collection of anger in all shapes and forms. Regardless of good or bad our economy is, the anger is ALWAYS going to be there. Those will nothing will continue to ask for more, and those with a lot will always be scrutinized for having it. This movement represents all the anger that stems from jealousy and personal greed. You cannot lead collective anger.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-much-you-want-to-stop-your-shit-ows/