Forum Post: OWS No Clear Goals or Purpose = No Support
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 14, 2011, 8:18 a.m. EST by aahpat
(1407)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
OWS is quickly losing support because it articulates no clear goals and purpose of the encampments. Vague assertions of "change" mean nothing to those that OWS demand change from. There can be no negotiation from a position of nothing.
I hate having to write this but it is how the whole thing is starting to look to me.
So, why aren't you creating and supporting your own goals? I am not trying to be contrary. I want to know what you plan on doing.
I am doing. I have been doing and acting on my politics for decades.
SEE: The Congress that Crashed America http://home.ptd.net/~aahpat/aandc/congcrash.html A compilation of current members of congress who, in 1999, voted to repeal Glass-Steagall thus setting the stage for the financial crash of 2008.
I am always engaging the politicians and social leaders giving them new concepts and demanding real change.
Ditto.
It gets worse, in some places the occupy movement is driving away support and creating problems with itself.
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/11/13/occupy-seattle-interrupts-pro-occupy-wall-street-forum-drives-away-supporters
Your message is just not clear to most folks. I hear it every day from folks of all ages. Even PETA is more clear about not wanting fish farms. You guys are all over the place. I would change and protest war. We are always fighting one or on the brink. You are not going to change GE.
I disagree about changing even Wall Street. It can be done. But it requires focus and organization. Not a bunch of people huddled in stents in the street. The encampments are messengers. They need to deliver a clearer message for their targets to get the point and make change happen.
The bank withdrawal action was a great and articulate action. Very focused and clear to the banks. A wonderful success. Do the same to Congress and this country's government will quickly heed OWS and make the changes needed. Many OWSers do not believe that change from Congress is possible and so are disaffected from the concept of political action. This only guarantees the continued status quo.
This is the refrain they have been repeating from the start.
The fact of the matter is that our goals and purpose are very clear: Abolish plutocracy.
I've been told by critics: "You need to establish leaders and a clear list of demands" I recall being told on Sept 17, "You are only five hundred people and you will be gone in a week and no one will notice or care."
It must be frustrating for these people that the movement keeps growing and it cannot be co-opted and funneled into support for the democrats and meaningless electoral politics.
<<<There's one question that pundits and politicians keep posing to the Occupy gatherings around the country: What are your demands?
I have a suggestion for a response: We demand that you stop demanding a list of demands.
The demand for demands is an attempt to shoehorn the Occupy gatherings into conventional politics, to force the energy of these gatherings into a form that people in power recognise, so that they can roll out strategies to divert, co-opt, buy off, or - if those tactics fail - squash any challenge to business as usual.
Rather than listing demands, we critics of concentrated wealth and power in the US can dig in and deepen our analysis of the systems that produce that unjust distribution of wealth and power. This is a time for action, but there also is a need for analysis.
Rallying around a common concern about economic injustice is a beginning; understanding the structures and institutions of illegitimate authority is the next step.
We need to recognize that the crises we face are not simply the result of greedy corporate executives or corrupt politicians, but rather of failed systems. The problem is not the specific people who control most of the wealth of the country, or those in government who serve them, but the systems that create those roles.>>>
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/11/201111191022862285.html
"Abolish plutocracy"
This is as clear as mud.
It says nothing.
"meaningless electoral politics"
So you want the end of democratic America?
I am a supporter of OWS but I see nothing to support.
You describe anarchy.
"This is as clear as mud."
The people should govern themselves, not be governed by giant corporations. What is unclear about this? You're being deliberately obtuse.
"So you want the end of democratic America?"
What democratic America? I'd like to see the start of one actually.
"I am a supporter of OWS "
Funny that you are parroting anti-OWS corporate media talking-points then...
"but I see nothing to support."
You're intentionally trying not to see. Its clear to the world public (including most Americans) who support us.
"You describe anarchy."
Calling for fundamental systemic changes may seem frightening. This particularly applies to those who have a (perceived or actual) vested interest in keeping the status quo going. However, it is desperately needed and long over due. We just hit 7 billion persons on this planet, we simply cannot keep going on how we are. Its positively impossible.
I'd prefer we change things now rather than wait for economic/ecological collapse or for apocalyptic wars over resources.
But don't get it twisted--- change is coming one way or the other.
Lets make a conscious decision for non-violent change now--- before things get ugly.
You are babbling with big words that you do not seem to understand the meaning of.
American democracy has been corrupted. That does not mean that there is no democracy. Only that the corrupt currently have control.
We can babble big words to make ourselves look intellectual in the mirror or we can focus the power that OWS represents and fix the democracy. While you are busy having your facebook moment in the sun I am trying hard to fix this mess.
Yes and we have not seen any growth in this movement. No media coverage, now newspaper articles, no interest at all. ;)
Denial. It is not just a river in Egypt.
The media and the newspaper are deliberately not giving the movement very much coverage to destroy it.
it was sarcasm....
There is so much more that this movement could and should be. OWS is, I believe, squandering the opportunity of a lifetime.
So then you must add to the conversation. Why do people complain about what others are doing, when they should just; Become the Change You Want to See in the World.
Occupy is a social movement NOT and an organisation or leader. We needs all actions that align with Occupy goals, actions taken on by individuals. No one is going to do it for us we have to do it our selves.
You have said nothing.
Purpose: http://www.nycga.net/resources/declaration/
Goal: I can't really figure out either. lol. The founders may have been anarchists ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy ) But I think the movement now contains viewpoints that are wider and bigger than the original.
My feeling is that people are very frustrated.
When government no longer represents the people, the people have to represent themselves.
Agreed.
I see OWS as a wonderful opportunity to effect real change in America for the first time in decades. But it requires more than a lot of people standing in the streets screaming at the walls of Wall Street.
OWS has taken on itself a tremendous amount of power with its numbers and dedication. But that power is just as quickly dissipating in pointlessness.
Supporting vague calls for change with no specifics is not the same thing as accomplishing real change. What "change" did Obama bring us?
We are not talking about Obama. That is a distraction from the issue. Or are you saying that OWS is no different from Obama. Just a lot of vague assertions of promise without any real substance.
I'm not saying that OWS is no different from Obama, but yes I'm personally very wary of putting my energy into supporting anybody who tries to rally people around "CHANGE" without getting specific. Look what that got us with Obama. The vague nature of this movement and its inability to formulate a specific platform with specific positions on specific issues is the reason that I can't support the movement.
That, I am afraid, is the position I am coming to as well.
The only specific I ever hear it to tear down the entire system of world and U.S. government and replace it with amorphism.
And clashing with cops. (For no clear reason?)
Too true. I have no problem with standing for what you believe. I have scars from standing against the government for what I believe. But standing for nothing and confronting the police for no reason is nothing but an angry mob with no clear reason to be angry.
Even sympathetic politicians, political and social leaders can do nothing since OWS provides them nothing specific to change.
Right, it's protesting for the sake of protesting, which I can't support. I would like for there to be something for me to support.
I want desperately for there to be something to support. I want OWS to be the great movement of its time. I believe that it can be the greatest instrument of real change America has seen in decades. I fear that it is letting the wonderful opportunity that it has created for itself pass it by.
This whole thread is a long circle jerk of people pretending not to understand what OWS stands for, and regurgitating corporate talking points back to each other.
I genuinely can't tell if you guys are sincere and have just absorbed and internalized the narrative that the corporate media is selling----- or which (if any of you) are just engaging in grey/black propaganda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_propaganda
Neither would surprise me honestly.
Fortunately for OWS, the internet is a forum that defies the ability of the corporate media to control. Its an arena where this 20th century nonsense simply cannot compete.
Like the Dinosaur...
Paranoid denunciation is not rebuttal.
It is the fetid effluent of a butt head.
some would say that their true goal has already been accomplished .. that being simply to point out inequality and make the public aware .. it sure has generated a lot of discussion has it not .. and perhaps thats what was needed..someone to simply get the ball rolling .. thankyou OWS
It's not starting to look that way. It's looked that way from the start.
Bullshit!
[Removed]
Zzzzzzzzzzz...
No clear goals and no single spokesman for the group.
OWS: You may hate the thought of actually creating a hierrarchy within your movement, but at the very least you need a single voice, a spokesman, that can articulate your positions. The media cherry-picks people out of the Occupy [fill in city name here] and gets different answers to the same question. As the title of this post says, you are not going to get support if you can't clearly state, with one voice, what your goals are.
Neither can OWS achieve anything of lasting significance if it does not set its sites on that thing and plan a way to achieve it. Standing in the streets screaming at the Walls of Wall Street achieves little of lasting significance.
It doesn't even make sense to have a spokes-person or leader if the spokes-person has nothing of consequence to say or the leader has nowhere to lead.
Good point about not having anything to say. I have read and posted here for a couple of weeks now and can find no clear message. I'm not happy about a lot of things in this country and I agree with some of what I see here. OWS needs clarity right now or it will soon fall apart.
What's really going on here is no one is willing to step up. It's too hard. Like 'forgive student debt' and 'guaranteed income', this 'movement' wants even their so-called revolution handed to them without any effort. They see camping as a sacrifice. Well they're cold and wet and increasingly diseased. So it's a sacrifice to their own well-being, but who else is losing sleep over it?
[Removed]
Try expressing yourself.
A lot of links without context means nothing. Offers nothing.
Yeah,Obama promised change and look what happened,he made things worse. I've read that having no goals was part of the OWS strategy but it doesn't seem to be working very well.
We have no list of demands for the media. This is not the same as having no goals. And this is to our strategic advantage, as evidence by the fact they we are putting to shame every other left-wing protest movement of the past thirty years.
We have no list of demands for the media. This is not the same as having no goals. And this is to our strategic advantage, as evidence by the fact they we are putting to shame every other left-wing protest movement of the past thirty years.
Reality finally settling in. ...."Gee...we can't change the world, living in tents,drumming and chanting kindergarten slogans".
I didn't say that.
Keep you stupid childish demonizing to yourself. Real Americans don't like you Brown Shirts with your bullying and hate mongering.
And you are the judge of who is a Real American? Rather arrogant and once again with the juvenile name calling. Sad aahpat.
You right-wing thugs and trolls deserve no better.
BTW Just what constitutes a Real American in your mind? You toss it out there so you can insult someone so tell us. We all want to hear from the all-knowing aaphat.
Nice judgment of people you don't know. See,arrogant all knowing people like you are what drives people away from your "movement". You must have been picked on a lot as a kid or at least you sure act like it.