Forum Post: OWS is not getting the point across. No leadership is the reason.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 9, 2011, 5:33 p.m. EST by Spankysmojo
(849)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I do love the idea of the movement. I do love the open forums (not the haters and trolls). The problem is lack of leadership. I'm not really sure if there is a leadership but I've heard rumors of donations coming in and someone responsible for them. Why is there a lack of leadership? Maybe I'm wrong and these days are just the in between that leads to progress...just don't see anything happening except for other cities joining around the world. That's good but not enough. Can't hope for change. Someone, please step up.
Protesting corruption doesn't need leadership, it needs people who dislike corruption.
We've been 'disliking' for centuries. Change requires leadership. I'm sorry but there is no other way.
Democracy will run it's course - if enough people get involved. Some people need managers, some don't. Either way, when there is a big enough concentration of folks who stand up against corruption - the message will become more and more articulate with time.
I'm not sure but I don't disagree either. The problem is, what comes after democracy runs its course? Monarchy? Communism? Got anything new?
Whatever the term used, hopefully, the system will work for benefit of the people.
Ideally after "democracy runs its course" we wind up with a more rational and balanced approach to the economy, a renewed respect and set of protections for blue-collar America, and policies designed to promote and protect the growth of manufacturing, light and heavy industry, and high-tech jobs. The problem is that you really only get a sea change in the way Americans perceive things when things get damn near intolerable, and even then it's entirely possible that their anger will be hijacked and misdirected enough that things don't change. An organized political movement has the opportunity to turn things around more quickly and comprehensively than waiting for things to take care of themselves.
Hey ARod. Well written as usual. I have to agree with your voice of reason.
TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER!!!! come on, admit it, Ya'll had to think it at least once while reading this post. Sure lots of people are leaders but its like comparing monogamy to group marriage. Things get done, people do them obviously. There isn't one leader there are hundreds maybe thousands. Why should anybody put all their eggs in one basket? Why settle for one leader when you can have thousands decentralized? There are too many leaders for the 1% to buy off, that's all you need to know. lol
hows the bat cave?
That's where I differ. MLK was one leader with millions of backers. Many leaders won't have one point. Imagine the media covering 12 people speaking for OWS. Which will they agree with? Which will they disagree with? Who will they ignore...but millions lead by a unified group or one person will have a lot more meaning and success. Agree to disagree. I know you can go on....
YES! We need leaders and achievable goals
Meet us on Nov 12 6PM 60Wa;; St - There are a huge number of great, well thought out, COMPLICATED ideas that will require a huge amount of "selling" and explanation" and will garner GREAT OPPOSITION.
We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple - that is popular -
that 83% of Americans already agree on -
that 56% of TP already agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins!
Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons & have no personhood rights”
and
“money is not free speech”.
We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)
If they could tie the left and right into a success -
If Ohio won. If Arizona won. If Maine won. If Mississippi won - WHY CAN'T WE??????????
I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
1
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
IS THEIR POSITION ALREADY.
2
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
3
Simple is almost always better.
4
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.
5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.
Hey Bensdad? I think we found our leader. You stick to the plan in the best way I've read on the forum to date. If you can keep that up then you're one of the leaders...or should be. I like what you said. NO BS! Love it. Post away!!!!! Please.
If you train people to follow people some would follow them right off a cliff. If you train people to question and think and not wait for the media to tell them what everyone thinks you get different result don't you? A leader is just someone to lock up. A leader is someone to blame. Lots of people following their heart and supporting each other, well there isn't room to lock them all up is there? I don't think the people want to be charmed and sucked in by a little charisma. I don't think OWS needs a leader in the traditional sense. There have been great leaders in other movements and that had its moment. Do these people need a leader? Do they need another boss? Do they need to be someone's side-kick, loyal minion, ditto head? A large number of people who seem to be in agreement on some important issues have agreed to put aside small differences and band together and help one another. Where exactly do you think the people need to be led? I think the people have been led right off the cliff already and are not in the mood to be led anywhere anymore! If you need a leader to give you direction there are plenty who can fill that void in your life. OWS is a self-motivated movement, they are all stepping up and getting it done without a big boss man. That's really how the world has been working. The bosses haven't been leading people in the workplace, they know what to do and they do it and bosses sit around counting the money. People are able work better without being micromanaged. The movement doesn't need a poster boy, a mouth piece. This tribe doesn't need a chief who can be bought with some fancy beads. Nobody wants to cut a deal or charm the masses. You can't stop this, the 1% hides, they are afraid to be on TV. They don't want the world to know their names. They collect the spoils, they grease wheels, but the 99% makes the world go round. OWS is just people working a protest like the job they haven't been given! CEO's are full of crap, the workers don't need them to get things done or anything. They don't rely on them for leadership. The workers of the world have learned to do what must be done and they are doing just that. Who are you that you need a leader? How can you hold down a job if you need to me micromanaged? OWS would have starved to death if they waited on a leader! This isn't about a pretty face and few good lines. It takes far more than that to get that many people all across the world into the streets. Everyone knows what OWS objects to. The media claims they don't understand because they'd cut out their tongues before they told Americans the truth. They know the truth and they are afraid if they uttered it even more people would show up.
Sorry you think that MLK and Ghandi were sucking anyone with a little charisma. They were real leaders and they made HUGE changes in the world. We can't beat the big-bank-enemy without leadership. It isn't like beating a drum. They are organized and strong. We are strong and disorganized. I am sorry I just don't agree that a hipster movement is enough. We must see change soon or everyone will become disenfranchised and just go home cold and tired. Winter is not going to be good for OWS. As soon as there are health issues mayor Bloom douche will have an excuse to disperse everything and everyone.
You are giving too much credit even to great leaders. They didn't do it alone. A leader great enough to back up the 1% and make them cut their profits and increase wages and abandon all plans to control all water and food would have to be the second coming. He or she would have to be Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha all rolled into one. I am not gonna wait for this person. Perhaps you missed the fact great leaders were mere humans? Each and every one of us has a great soul if we unleash it. There are many great souls alive and in the world and in the street. They are humans, they have souls, do not underestimate that. You want a myth, open your eyes and stop taking people for granted. Will you wait for a dragon perhaps? If only millions of people had a dragon with them, surely then could win, but are millions of people gonna loose if they don't have a dragon?
I do agree with you, they are people. Still they are people who had backing and succeeded. agree to slightly disagree.
So people go home. They go online. Maybe they join a church. Maybe they show up at a PTA meeting or two and meet other parents, maybe they talk to people at the laundry mat. When they go home, they take the message with them everywhere they go and to everyone they meet. Maybe they watch freespeech TV and link and invest in a dish. Maybe they plant a garden. Maybe they buy recycled clothes, spend a few dollars in a local grocery store. So long as they don't isolate themselves they can influence people. They exist, they impact others, they learn. Its not over when they go home for the winter. OWS has changed me and I couldn't even go to it. Awareness can not be lost or taken away and once aware, it changes people, FOREVER. No more are they going assume everyone is in the Tea Party. No more are they going to trust that their democrat isn't corrupt and in need of a firm hand. Great leaders had a great message. They were great, so great that haven't been forgotten and could never be replaced. Its not the birth of leader you are seeing, its action without that. The people have already learned from great leaders and their message did not die with them. A new leader isn't needed the old ones laid all the ground work. Having a bed in the winder won't be the end of this. Trust me. We'll just sit at home and learn whose products we don't need or want anymore. We'll think of better ways to live our lives. Winter is a pause, not an end. No more will I feel Alone, and no more will make sure I am Alone. I will be me and I will share myself with others and they will know where I stand.
I say OWS should officially name Ghandi their leader. They could hire a medium and make it official! But if they hire the medium they should put her in a bullet proof vest and perhaps get her a helmet.... Better safe than sorry.
That seems a bit safe after all this protesting. The movement you describe has been under way for some time. It crawls toward progress while kids in America have no food. Gotta act a bit quicker. Gotta change some laws now. Campaign finance, Glass- Steagal back now!, .....
Everyone always seems to look for a leader to identify with left wing, right wing,Rep, Dem, I'm a this, I'm a that. etc . Rooting for political parties as if they were sports teams.They have invested their identity in leaders for years only to be disappointed. I 'm impressed with the occupy movement because it proves people can think for themselves.
Think for themselves and go home with nothing? Many leaders speak to their cause. If OWS is 'left wing, right wing,Rep, Dem' then it isn't worth a dime. MLK wasn't : left wing, right wing,Rep, Dem. Just anti discrimination. Why can;t OWS find what exactly it represents (one at a time) and have a leader speak it?
Okay Spankysmojo, you wait for the great dragon to come and smote your enemies! For what is clearly needed is a dragon. Two dragons are not better, because to be killed could be confusing. Ten dragons would make people's head explode. So only the greatest lone dragon ever will do to be clear. The rest of us will go turn some stones into soup, we have to be somewhere to say the emperor has no clothes on cue while we are at it.
http://fisherman209.blogspot.com
Our site offers much info on OWS protests.
Real leaders only matter if we are interested in launching a takeover of Congress, and for that to happen it's a little late in the election cycle.
What really does matter is that we stand united against something - by that I mean some common thing that we all agree is b.s.
The lack of resolution to the whole sub-prime market for example. I haven't heard that lenders have been charged with fraud - where appropriate. 60 Minutes ran a pair of spots on the sub-prime market which makes it quite clear there was plenty of fraud that took place and that jail time for such lenders is both appropriate and necessary. Further, bailing out banks who then continue their foreclosures, bailed out bankers refusing to lend, etc.
That's bs. It's also counter productive, harming the general economy and helping to keep property values depressed.
Global warming, alternative energy and the tar sands pipeline - these are issues that seem to galvanize those of us in Burlington, Vermont.
Net Neutrality.
Campaign finance reform.
Corporate Free Speech issues - and please note carefully - CORPORATIONS DO NOT HAVE TONGUES.
These are all issues I've seen highlighted at the Burlington protests, where we seem to have consensus on these issues that change is needed. If we continue to articulate that necessity clearly and consistently then Congress must either respond appropriately, or not. If not, it will be abundantly clear who stands in the way, and toward that end we should begin looking for candidates who will respond favorably.
I like that response. You're right. But still a leader/leaders must emerge. The election cycle should not determine the validity of the movement. Plus, let's start now for the next election cycle. If we did then they would recognize OWS now. Unity with leadership. That's the answer. People like you are crucial!
Leaders are only necessary under the political current political model. And under that model, the people you think are leaders are only stooges for the real powers that be.
OWS is about a different kind of leadership, one that stresses individual responsibility for the community. The evolving model stresses that individuals speak for themselves unless specifically authorized by the group for a specific purpose.
This is a true democratic process.
if you want real discussions for permanent change by the Occupy Wall Street movement, please visit: http://www.themultitude.org/
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They've created an umbrella of OWS. This way whatever pops into anyone's head can be attacked under the name of OWS and anyone can claim their actions are affiliated with OWS. This will be the downfall of this movement. It is bordering on wilding.
I agree. Hence this post. We need a leader that is not religiously or ethnically motivated. A true leader that can orate the voice of OWS as one voice. Peacefully and powerfully.
they have leadership. an apartment full of people controlling the OWS and global revolution media, therefore they control the message. by endorsing OWS you endorse whatever they choose the message to be.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-keeps-not-so-secret-media-lair/44713/
http://www.thenation.com/signupad/164448?destination=blog/164448/occupyusa-blog-tuesday-nov-8-frequent-updates
Haven't seen one message yet. Other than : protest. You? There is no message because it's coming from discussions not leaders.
because. we are just supposed to create the energy. the few in control have a completely different agenda than the protesters. this site is designed only to be a place for quarantined venting. not to allow us to organize a message. if you have a blog, or know someone that does, likes to write about our positions, not OWSs, i have a new project that is up and running. just let me know.
Hence, my post. No leadership. To quarantine venting is ridiculous. Like trying to tell MLK not to read the paper. He did in fact read and then rose up to change things enough to be written about.
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And of all the posts you pointed it out. Lack of accountability. The essence of the movement. The 'leaders' are there. They are the ones running the show, determining when protests should happen, controlling the GA, controlling the money, and promoting Rules for Radicals in private. They are the ones that want to see violence so they can use it as a weapon against their enemies. They are the ones that are using OWS as pawns in their game to create anarchy. People are fools. The leaders are going to steal all the $500k donations and people aren't even paying attention
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Hows the weather in India?
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India has twice as many people living in abject poverty as we have in our entire country.
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India has been a majority of abject poverty since before and after you broke with the British, don't try to blame that on us. India is only growing because America is outsourcing so many jobs to India.
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The world is filled with poor citizens who have zero education and in many areas no standard utilities. They are also brainwashed by dictatorial regimes that are much less free than America. Why would i care what they say about us anyways? Its funny how nobody complains when they are begging the US to give them money, but suddenly we are to blame for all of the worlds problems. To funny. Thats called hypocrisy.
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Sure they were.
Yeh india isn't corrupt. LOL. Ive been to india several times, ive had indian people stay at my house under a business development program, you live in a dreamland if you think india is better than America even with our corrupt system.
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So we enforce our laws. Why is that a problem? In India you marry off women to men they don't even know in some religious ritual and expect them to live a happy life. Forced marriage over enforcing laws. I pick enforcing laws.
Fear of arrest never stopped the MLKs and Ghandis of the world. They were arrested and now in the history books.If you are honest then no trumped up charges will stick. If they kill you you are the martyr that will rule the world but like MLK and Ghandi you have to put it all out there.
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Exactly my point. Arab spring took a couple of heads of state out but NOTHING changed. That's why leadership is crucial.
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I'm not worried about the CIA. The reason I'm not is quite simple. Perhaps you haven't heard that even torture has been subcontracted to others by them. I suspect the reason they subcontracted waterboarding was that they just knew, despite John Woo, [hehe - that rhymes!] that was something they really didn't want a part of.
If you want to be scared of someone today, try the Pentagon . . .
and they already know right where I live . . .
Why would you say that? First, I am not qualified. I have some opinions, like you, but not the wherewithal to lead. Why would I worry about the CIA? Please explain.