Forum Post: ows is dying a slow, miserable death
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 14, 2011, 7:10 p.m. EST by slizzo
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
this is what happens when you:
blame the wrong people (wall st. instead of the federal govt and both major political parties)
allow 9/11 truthtards to erode your credibility
mix anarchists with socialists (cognitive dissonance, anyone?)
fuck with people who have something to do (blocking streets, traffic, etc)
have such an poorly focused message and even worse ideas of how to fix it (wealth inequality and money out of politics are both good ideas, more govt to solve any of if it a horrible idea)
the encampments are going away, the weather is getting colder, xmas shopping has been extremely strong, and even the daily show mocks ows.
it's over.
You're just jealous you're not Time's Person of the Year!
so now you embrace major media? because they threw you a bone?
look how easily bought off YOU are!
OMG, pick your fights more wisely, save your energy. Go meditate somewhere.
sucks when your snark bites you on the ass, doesn't it?
Are you patting yourself on the back because you think you just won some great debate? Bye troll.
Hon, OWS wasn't person of the year...."the protestor" was. This included ALL people who protest-not just OWS.
But hey! You're among great company-like Hitler, Stalin, and the Ayatollah. OH...and George W. Bush...TWICE!
"Person of the year" doesn't always= GREAT!
Cash is KING in this nation and Congress does its bidding. Need one clear message? Get the lobby money of corporate "persons" out of our democracy. Elected officials depend on the ability to extort money from big corporations to fund their campaigns. Corporations depend on being able to buy off politicians to produce tax breaks and policies that protect their profits. That ONE issue is the ONLY issue. It is the root of the problem. It is not an OWS issue it is a democracy issue. It is not a left or right issue it is American human person versus corporation "persons" for the access and influence of our nation's policies and laws. 99.5% of the persons in this nation are flesh and blood. You are among them conservative or liberal. It is not about OWS being alive or dead. It is about our democracy being live or dead. Wake up. Massive corporate persons control your government and mine. Are you really ok with that? If your views are conservative they will crush you in their rush for the dollar. If you are liberal you will be run over by the same elephant. It does not care about people. It cares only about cash. Are you cash? If so you are the king. If not you are ruled by politicians who serve king cash. They extort cash from corporations to fund their campaigns and then they deliver so they will get cash for re-election. You and your opinion and me and my opinion matter not at all. Cash has silenced us both. If OWS has opened that discussion it has done its work because the solution is up to Americans and we must end corporate personhood and end their control of our political system with their deep pockets. Well you know money talks and it is telling you along with me to shut up. I doubt you like it any more than I do. A marriage between corporate "persons" and our democratic institutions is about like the homecoming queen going to the dance with a lawn mower. Will a lawn mower be a person next?
"That ONE issue is the ONLY issue."
please, if only it were that simple.
it's not.
"Massive corporate persons control your government and mine. Are you really ok with that?"
to the extent that is true, no I am not ok with that. but I know who to blame. ows does not. ows blames the wrong entity. it isn't the businesses, it is the politicians who take the bribes. they are the ones who swore an oath and then took a bribe.
this obsession over corporate personhood...like this problem is something new since that SCOTUS decision...how absurd.
politicians, paid with our tax dollars, accepting bribes are the problem. they are beholden to us and they sell us out. they need to be held accountable.
"politicians, paid with our tax dollars, accepting bribes are the problem. they are beholden to us and they sell us out. they need to be held accountable." Agree 100% but the massive majority of the money they get comes from corporations after they are solicited by the politicians. Corporations after the Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court can lay just as much cash as they want at the feet of our bought politicians via PACs. It is a two way street the politician funded and the corporate "person" doing the bribing. That is the one issue that steals our democracy. CASH for access and influence. Corporate CASH. It is not the minimum wage people the politicians hit up for campaign funds. It is the corporations and now there is no limit to what they can contribute. It leaves you and me as insignificant "persons". We are junior high players against the NFL on the same field. Yes, it is that simple. CASH, MONEY. Sure it is the politicians but why are they screwed up? It is the CASH from the corporate lobbyists. Forget small government that is not in the interest of the politicians who need the power to give the corporations the tax breaks and statutes they crave. To do that the tax code and legal preference for corporations must be in the hand of the politicians so that they can extort money from the corporations to fund their elections. It is a two way street that is corrupt on both sides. Wall Street and K Street are killing us on Main Street.
those who accept the case are the ones beholden to us. they have the most culpability.
and you act like citizens united is when all this started, which is laughable. it's not. labor unions do the same thing corporations do.
I suggest we form a more perfect union. (grin). Government, Labor and Management are the three legs on the stool. When one is out of balance the system does not work well. All government dictatorship, all labor chaos, all management slavery. In a good home mom, dad and the kids must all thrive. Any good philosophy major knows you can not have the one without the many in this world. The right might want every individual to have freedom and the left might want the whole to work but fact is that a good home, nation, or whatever is a balance between several things that make up the whole and the whole itself supports it all. Idealism that neglects this reality from Any Rand or Karl Marx is seductive to so many but unhelpful. Wisdom demands more than political theory it demands wise human beings. Granddaddy has a place in the family.
It shouldn't be a blame game, or finger pointing. It should be about gathering attention.
Just keep debunking them until they go away or give up. They aren't going to get any details on the questions about Al Qaeda and bin Laden because the case is still open with the FBI. It's not released to the public.
Everyone wants to hijack a protest for personal gain.
Yes, that's an effective method of gathering awareness. "There's no such thing as bad publicity"
False. Christmas shopping is low, especially for low income families. The rich are spending more. As well, credit card makes up 53% of purchases, which is bad.
Not understanding the problem, doesn't make it go away
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/07/holiday-shopping-2011_n_1133479.html
http://news.yahoo.com/consumer-reports-poll-fewer-consumers-expect-jolly-2011-100217759.html
YEah-ya. Blame the wrong people.
Some other clown posted earlier today, with a link to some guy off site, advocating that we not advocate or engage in a witch hunt
Well it aint no with hunt.
Here's what I told him:
YEah I'm angry. I bet I'm not alone either.
I mean, just think of the nerve these people have!
they spend millions lobbying for deregulation
they claim regulation was the cause of the mortgage meltdown
When we can see it was fraud that took place
they knew when home owners would not be able to meet their ballooning interest rates
they paid everyone: the borrower, with as much as 99% of the home value as loan principle; the loan writer with bonuses per loan
falsified documentation regarding borrowers income
then sold what they knew was bad debt on the open market - as triple a grade investments
and now they want to be treated as if they were special?
So, what? IF I put on a suit and tie, come up with a scheme to get rich and it works so well I get hundreds of others involved - and it collapses the entire economy -
I don't go to jail?
I get to keep the money?
I mean, because if that is the case, I really don't see any reason why a home owner facing foreclosure today should not go out and rob a bank to pay the loan.
Ultimately, that is what is proposed. Chaos. Class warfare.
It's bad enough that there is such wide discrepancy in terms of legal services available on the basis of income - or what you can afford. This in itself brings our system of Justice into disrepute, supporting the - not perception but the fact - that wealth provides for better legal outcomes.
This, this proposed termination of some supposed witch hunt - is to establish in fact, that a suit and tie is insurance against legal redress.
If the law is not applied to everyone, in a fair and equitable manner, then it is utterly certain the day will come when it ceases to apply to anyone, and that benefits no one.
Those who have engaged in fraud, must be held accountable.
Then you have Cleveland. Can you see the ad now?
Coming soon to a neighborhood near you.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/cleveland-say-it-aint-so-tearing-down-vacant-house/
Most people don't have a problem with others expressing an opinion, at least when that opinion is expressed in such a way as to invite discussion, adding words like f*ck, faggot, etc are not conducive to any exchange of ideas, but rather invites more of the same, illogic and anger. It reduces the assumed intelligence of the person presenting the opinion, as well as those who respond in like manner. It demonstrates a lesser ability to communicate for both parties.
For those who do not understand the fixation with Wall Street and the mega corporations and the banks that participated in the failing of the economic system vs protesting government and the elected officials...there is the maxim, hit them where it hurts. Anyone who is even moderately well read understand the term to mean interfere with the money flow, make public what that money flow has done and who is behind it and who is accepting it.
Where else would one look other than Wall Street? The Symbol of that money flow.
We have had on these pages men and women who have left positions in trading companies, and investment banks because the practices of such institutions offended them. These men and women have exposed to the best of their ability those practices to as much of the public as is within their ability.
We have had a complacent population for so long that no one in a position of power, be it monetary power or political, could foresee an uprising of indignation from any portion of that populace.
We as people are quick to identify those who disturb our comfort zones as 'other', quick to raised voices not in protest but to belittle the disturbers. References to genetics and sexual orientation abound and the defense isn't any better.
We are witnessing our way of life falling apart around us, whether we acknowledge that fact or not. We all seek answers and simplification, we read or hear of something that, in our limited understanding, we believe will hold off the inevitable fall and we attempt to promote it.
We are a fractured society. Not just the US, but globally. A house of cards was built and we were told it was made from concrete and steel. We are angry for the lies and angry because we believed.
Present reasoned points for discussion, respond with reasoning, leave the anger out.
http://youtu.be/hphgHi6FD8k
this explains it all huey long
Capitalism and the official 9/11 narrative are what is dying a slow death
well everyone give up, Slizzo says OWS is over.... 1/ Wall street is to blame, giving each other massive salaries and committing fraud even after the 2008 crash 2/ People who seek a proper investigation into 9/11 are no stupid as you imply 3/ Peaceful protest is a legitimate way to express dissatisfaction with a system in fact its a right
"People who seek a proper investigation into 9/11 are no stupid as you imply"
really? they are "no stupid"?
are you "yes stupid"?
im glad that because I left out a "t" you feel justified in your own superiority and intelligence. I see you're just another ignorant bully.
"you're"
thanks my spelling is shit :)
so is your critical thinking, reasoning, logic....
Wall Street dictates the content of both major political parties, buy them both and profit from political loyalty regardless of election outcomes.
I think it's time for us, as a nation, to get over 9/11 already.
Rank and file socialists and anarchists disagree on just about everything. They battle with the communists for supremacy of the left.
Maybe it's time for people to stop and think about what they are doing, it's part of Occupy's overall message.
Hold politicians and business leaders accountable. They are wantonly destructive and grossly outnumbered.
This has been a weak Christmas season for retail all around. More bad news that mainstream media won't admit. John Stewart is a quintessential liberal with political ties so the Daily Show mocking OWS really doesn't come as a surprise.
+10...
"Here's your sign."
The Revolution has a new theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L-GOHa5-YQ
http://occupywallst.org/forum/in-the-name-of-allah/
The Revolution starts here!
really?
It's over?
So I guess that means you'll go home, and leave us to our celebration?
I heard Time Magazine just picked their person of the year . . .
and you weren't it
seeya sleezy!
'Time' magazine picks The Protester as 'Person of the Year'
http://www.digitalspy.com/media/news/a356082/time-magazine-picks-the-protester-as-person-of-the-year.html
The Daily Show doesn't mock OWS, they mock everyone. They're extremely unbiased, because they look at all sides. Although I have found more positive things than negative about OWS
you sure that's not you?
OWS is an expression of the common determination of the 99% to transform the world into a better place. Fall in line and live forever or step aside and be forgotten!
"Fall in line and live forever or step aside and be forgotten!"
pathetic.
Stop saying that you represent the 99%. This movement is only.1% of the population. You may be 99% of the 100% who are protesting but not a representation of the rest of the country.
Honestly, however "failed" the Occupy movement may or may not appear to be now, even if it were to magically vanish off the planet tomorrow, it wouldn't have been for nothing. Glass-Steagall has become a buzzword. Campaign finance reform has become a buzzword. The language of economic inequality is beginning to take back its rightful place in the American lexicon, and the chickens loosed by corporate profiteers and the religious right are beginning to come home to roost.
That process is not going to stop if we stop, any more than it would stop if we stopped a week ago or even a month ago. The political and economic sea change is coming; all we're here to do is to speed it along and even if we were to walk away all that would do is change the time of reckoning. And generally speaking, the more delayed such a reckoning is the nastier it will be when it comes.
Y'all can vote me down, question my sexuality, make ludicrous claims about my mother (since apparently that's all you cavemen know how to do), or do whatever else strikes your fancy. That's fine; I'm not the one you have to worry about, nor are half the people on here. The ones you have to worry about are in lines at the unemployment office for looking for jobs that don't exist. They're the ones who held good, strong, solid blue-collar jobs for most of their lives only to be thrown on the scrap heap by outsourcing. They're the ones fresh out of college who were promised the world and mortgaged their futures to get it, only to be tossed a Starbucks apron and a sneer instead. There are a lot of them out there, they're beginning to find their voice, and they're pissed. Do you really want to be the one standing between them and a way up and out? Again, it's fine if you do; just remember that standing in front of the gates of opportunity is a great way to get trampled. Good night.
why would you put quotes around fail when I never used the word?
"Y'all can vote me down, question my sexuality, make ludicrous claims about my mother (since apparently that's all you cavemen know how to do), or do whatever else strikes your fancy."
that happens to you, too? it happens to me all the time from the ows people. we should hang out.
I hope the better things ows brought up get better (especially campaing reform), but I hope ows' ideas on how to fix it (more govt) fail. that said, as much as I am a small govt proponent, publicly funded campaigns with the death penalty for breaking the rules is necessary. there is no doubt that elected office jobs draw the lowest scumbag frauds in our society like flies to shit. no business needs strict, merciless, and harsh regulation like politics.
under publicly funded campaigns, if a pol takes a bribe, he and the one who offered it get executed within a week of their being found guilty. their trial starts 3 days after their arrest. do this six or seven times a week for about a month and watch how fast shit changes.
term limits, too. sorry baby, the bathwater is infested with shit. you go, too.
btw, who promised recent college grads the world?
Re: bribery- I wouldn't mind that as long as the penalty applied to the person offering the bribe is equal to the penalty applied to the person taking it.
Re: small government- inefficient and ham-fisted government involvement is never a good idea. That said, assuming you get government reliably cleaned up (which a string of public prosecutions would probably accomplish fairly quickly) then some kind of increased role for the federal government (particularly in applying the same rigorous standards to the private sector as you're suggesting applying to the government) wouldn't necessarily be all that bad.
As far as who promised college grads the world, the answer is the yuppie generation. They pretty much suggested that your choices were getting a degree or flipping burgers, and that the only way to get ahead was to go to college for something because the degree didn't matter for a middle management job. Some people realized that this only mattered for a subset of degrees (STEM and a few other things), but the rest of these kids were fed a plan of action that ceased to be relevant once computers began replacing middle management.
i believe focusing on the brand is why you may see it this way. right now there is nobody waving the OWS banner and people on line are organizing in far more places than just this forum. in fact, there are several program startups right now that are just getting started. OWS was just the spark.
Quit your crying. Here is your package of fail.
crying? I'm laughing! ows has been a joke from day 1.
I'm laughing at you. You are pathetic jack-off that spends their life up at a forum with people that you don't like. You are definitely a waste of space. Although, you are probably paid to be here which ultimately means that you are a cheap whore. You have no soul.
"you are probably paid to be here"
lmao!! are you this paranoid in real life? or is it gullibility?
are you a 9/11 truther?
or just an angry twunt wannabe radical?
Well, if you aren't paid to be here then you are just a pathetic jack-off. :D
[Removed]
ok, so angry twunt wannabe radical it is!
how's that workin' out for ya', toots?
doesn't look too good. for a minute there, you actually believed some people are PAID to be here! how fucking stupid is THAT?
9/11 truther, right?
It has to be one of the other, fucktwit!!!! You are paid to be here like the whore your mother was OR you are pathetic as hell hanging around a place talking to people that you don't like.
oooh...someone's crotch grit is especially coarse today. see if that homeless bum next to you will drool down your pants and make all better.
UMAD, bro?
1.Wall st is to blame for the erosion of the government
2.whatever
3.Fucking wikipedia anarchism you lazy faggots
4.you're probably right on that one
5.goddamn it
Item 3. I did. What's your point?
Also, I found some additional information. I went a little further than Wikipedia.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/07/anarchism
http://commonstruggle.org/node/2570
http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/
Extra credit?
wall st. responds to the environment govt creates with laws and regulations.
that's your most compelling point.
"faggots" - nice, bigot. very tolerant and so well-informed.
you know I'm right about all of it
yep
Number 3 was a good point and it has a lot to do with why the movement can't come to a consensus on anything substantial.
1) That may be how it started but it's hardly reflective of the way things are now; while we may not have corporate honchos directly regulating themselves and setting national policies, they're pretty much in a position to pick and choose who does. They pour tons of money into elections, with the understanding that the money will be used to promote you if you do what they want and to chase you out of office if you don't.
2) and 3) can really be addressed in one post if you will. Anarchists and communists may be a part of this movement, but assuming that they are going to set an "OWS party line" comprised of nothing but hardline anarcho-communism is naive at best. What's really going to dictate the scope of the movement is the number of rational moderates who want to see change; ten to one the anarchists and the socialists are going to get drowned out when it comes time to make policy and most of us know that. The 9/11 truthers and the Illuminati people and the New World Order people have never been more than an obnoxious fringe as it is, and again assuming that people like that have any say whatsoever in the actions of this movement is ridiculous.
4)That sucks but protests are protests. They probably should be better targeted than they were so as not to have significant side effects for the people trying to get to work, but a movement whose core is currently a protest movement refraining from protesting is a fairly stupid idea.
5) That's already beginning to resolve itself in the form of the 99% Declaration and public opinion at large; campaign finance reform and Glass-Steagall have already become buzzwords and more will probably follow. The blanket statement that more government is bad is as meaningless as the blanket statement that less government is bad. Inefficient, ham-fisted government intervention is a bad idea, but some kind of increased role for the federal government (especially when you get private money out of it) would probably not be all bad.
Anarchists are probably a minority in this movement. But they are the ones that started it and they are the ones running things. The movement is based on anarchist ideas and principles of direct democracy and non-hierarchical structure. Form shapes content, not the other way around. The form is anarchistic. The results will be anarchy.
Non-hierarchical organization can only really work as long as 50-70% of the people involved have bought into the model. The very nature of consensus and direct democracy is that it has no mechanism to prevent itself from being swept away or overthrown other than the will of a significant majority of participants. If we can get enough reasonable moderates involved so that we outnumber the anarchists then at that point it becomes our movement in which they reside rather than the other way around.
I'm not sure, but I think the anarchists are also deeply embedded in the working groups, who are basically the ones driving this shipwreck to no where. I took a look at the groups a few times online, and it looked like the most God awful mess I had every seen.
Also, I do not think those working groups are meant to be effective. Not in any traditional sense anyway. Based on Otpors techniques for resistance movements, one of the strategies is to keep people feeling busy.
1.you can babble on for 1000 paragraphs and it still does not change the FACT that the pols are the ones with power. they took an oath. they are beholden to the public's trust. they are ultimately responsible. but like I said, ows is a left wing mob and a left wing mob is not going to protest a left wing president or a senate with a left wing majority.
& 3. you missed the point entirely on anarchists and socialists. as for truthers, they are fringe in the greater society. on ows, they are more than just a fringe.
seems you are saying protest must disrupt working people's lives. that's bullshit and you know it.
less govt to fix the problems ows brought up, not less govt period. don't distort what I wrote so you can make a point easier.
So you're suggesting that we forget the fact that wall st is bribing everyone.
I suggest you focus on the scumbags who took an oath and then took a bribe. the people who are paid with YOUR money that you have no choice to contribute (taxes).
wall st didn't take an oath, politicians did. you are not obliged to buy what corporations are selling.
is this really that confusing?
Well why should I defend wall st anyways?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-3hZsXrxaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQqjTxI3vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
Just set up a dead-man switch that would pull stuff down with ows.
Even George Washington had to take his troops into winter quarters. Occupy will do just fine so long as we follow the Nine Principles laid out by Gandhi and King.
"Nonviolence is the fulcrum. Discipline is the lever."
Pledge For Nonviolence
non-violence is good. but you need a lot more that you just don't have.
and I don't see ows following many (any?) of those 9 principles. spoiled college kids and wannabe radicals do not possess the strength of character to conform to that code. they are too selfish and lazy.
face it. it's over.
We followed the Nine Principles in the 1960s.
That included mostly rural sites such as Alachua, Florida, and Fort Valley, Georgia.
Faith. Hope. Charity. These are part of the inheritance of every human being. All it takes is choice.
Yes, this teevee generation is self-centered. Lazy, not so much. They enjoy work.
Stick a fork in them. Once they realize they have to pay for Internet access and smartphone use it's either head back to mommy and daddy's or find work.
Like 9/11 planes, you have been infiltrated and commandeered.
RIP, OWS.
You're funny.