Forum Post: OWS Failed. Now what?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 19, 2011, 1:37 p.m. EST by spidey
(101)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Let's be realistic for a moment. Besides 15 minutes of fame, after a month or protests OWS has failed to accomplish at least 1 concrete demand. Holding sings and sitting around is not effective. Time to go big or go home how far are you willing to go?
sorry, its a bit early to have trolls telling us we have failed, esp with 59 percent of the population agreeing with us and the largest fastest viral event in human history.
ok then, start a 3rd party and take power, with 59% support, it should not be a problem right?
yes, that is exactly what i have been proposing.
I'll vote for the 99% party
We have, the Dirt Baggers Party!
Dream on, muppet. One month ago, the national conversation was all debt, deficit, we can't afford the social safety net, sacrifices must be made.
Rage at the skullduggery of Wall Street had gone completely off the radar.
Now the populist uprising against the oligarchy is out in the open and gathering speed.
Remember--it was 18 months between the inception of the teabag party and their takeover of Congress.
What will OWS accomplish over the same time frame?
next:
Here's how we can easily Reform Wall Street: Take away their powers "once again." And a Million People March to Capitol Hill will help get it done!
For example, "We are here Congress because we want you to REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which helped saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing investment companies, banks, and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of just being Banks and Insurance companies--Congress why can't you learn a history lesson from 1929? Btw, why did most of you vote for its final repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act (2nd story here)
Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with lawmakers like Senator Phil Gramm who helped create legal gambling casinos for our banks: CNN's The Ten Most Responsible for Economy Collapse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related
Furthermore, we also want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and consequently allowed for such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 250 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right thing, or you're part of the 1%."
So why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole. Former head of U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission speaks to Congress on the high price of oil--and he's not happy about energy deregulations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related
Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the shattering of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw
Let's get focused and bring back Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right in 1933, we don't need to REINVENT the wheel because bringing this Act back will help create an even playing field once again....and let's finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge what they wanted for energy; they went to jail for this; but no one closed the loophole, why? Re-election Monies from the banks and oil companies! The writing is on the wall.
You say it has already been one month. I say it's only been a month. Patience, grasshopper.
please name 1 concrete change accomplished by OWS ?
A change? Time will tell.
A proof of concept? The willingness for physical PEOPLE to invest financially, and actually, towards something for the betterment of their peers.
the concrete in zucotti park is cleaner? there, a concrete change. waka waka waka
fastest growing viral movement in human history.
sure, and Unicorns support it also.
Educating lots of people and creating a great of awareness regarding how bad the system is. From this will come the demands and change but it will take time.
Ohh I can name one. They increased the number of people in jail for a little while. Which those people will now have a harder time getting a job , if they didn't already have one. Or they may have lost their job because they didn't show up for work because they got arrested. Way to go on getting the people employable , and decreasing high unemployment. :)
Don't forget... along with going to jail, they increased the burden on the government which just means more taxes. Gotta love it.
Exercising an unrestricted freedom of assembly, which had not been possible in NYC for about a decade now.
great and what exactly did that change? something concrete please.
It re-established New Yorkers' right to assemble, a human right guaranteed by the first amendment that had been consistently denied to us for years.
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You just repeated the question; I'm not sure why.
By exercising an unrestricted freedom of assembly, which had not been possible in NYC for about a decade now, OWS re-established New Yorkers' right to assemble.
A fundamental human right guaranteed by the first amendment to our constitution had been subjected to the whims of the Bloomberg administration for years. OWS's success in restoring the right to assemble is a huge victory for New Yorkers and anyone who cares about human rights and the constitution.
It remains to be seen what else OWS can accomplish in the coming weeks and months. But even if we accomplish nothing else, we've already accomplished a tremendous victory for human rights in America by re-establishing the right to assemble.
the right to assemble in America was never lost. but ok, I'm willing to see past that. Now after a month of free assembly, what has OWS done? can't you at least mention 1 concrete improvement in the lives of the 99%?
it turned me on to other groups ( www.getmoneyout.com ) that also want to see our campaign finance reformed in a real way. I also learned about a group called www.lobbydemocracy.com that has a pretty good idea of increasing the people's voice in our dysfunctional democracy for the time being. Now I can spread the word, and tell others about these groups. Hopefully, more support can be gained this way. Rome wasn't built in a day...ever hear that one before?
Not everything is literal. Not everything is "concrete." Revolutions take time. What they have done is sparked our collective imaginations as to what is possible. And instead of sitting around throwing stones and saying "This is bullshit, let's get bombed," they're actually doing something about it.
Change takes time. It's not like going through the drivethrough at a fast food chain.
They have said "enough is enough!" and are building the movement. Very smart. You are nice and comfy at home harrumphing. Great. That's your right. But patience is not something that most Americans are big on. They want it and they want it now. It's been a few weeks for fuxxake. They are building an incredible organization based on democratic standards that are far superior to anything that most people have seen or consider.
And they're made fun of because, like the native americans who supposedly couldn't see the ships coming because they had no reference for it, many people can't understand this and want to define it according to their standards. But it's not like anything you're familiar with--the democratic civility in the process alone is not something most people would even understand if they read it. Here's an example:
"I want to articulate that we encourage a step-up, step-back policy. If you have generally been encouraged to speak in your life, we ask that you step back so that people with traditionally marginalized voices can be encouraged to step up." (from 10/19/2011 GA Minutes)
This is brilliant. Social justice and civilized interactions. Incredible.
You want one concrete improvement after 1 month? Okay, here's one:
They've opened up a dialogue so that people like you can voice your approval or dissent about what's been happening in our country and what can be done about it. And it's an international movement, unlike any other movement in the US heretofore, that I'm aware of--so, the base is growing.
I'd say that's pretty huge. And btw, not everyone shares your vision of what a "concrete" achievement is. You need to read more about what the group is doing instead of tapping your fingers on the desk staring at the computer monitor "waiting for results."
Peace.
Well said. I personally would highlight the fact that they have organised based on inspired democratic standards. People all over the world can see that, and be re-assured that real democracy can work. That is an incredibly valuable achievement.
Doesn't the world wide movement credit go to the Tunisians, Egyptians and Spaniards? Or what about Rothschild Boulevard? I think its very important to be careful about what sounds like self importance. Not that people are taking credit for sheer self-congratulatory purposes, its just easy to get swept up in the momentum of that frame of mind whenever a feel good and/or do good action is taken.
This is the last time I'll answer the same question. After a month of assembling freely, OWS has made at least 1 concrete improvement in the lives of the 99%: we have restored the right of the people to assemble. No longer will we have to ask permission to exercise our fundamental human rights. No longer will we be herded into cages placed on the outer boundaries of town and called "free speech zones". We the people are once again free to assemble in public and voice our political views.
It remains to be seen what else OWS can accomplish in the coming weeks and months. But even if we accomplish nothing else, we've already accomplished a tremendous victory for human rights in America by re-establishing the right to assemble.
I'm sorry, but I live in NYC and there are protests/assemblies CONSTANTLY with people freely assembling in public to voice their views on everything from abortions to airlines not serving food. What you have accomplished is that you have proved the internet is an amazing medium for global advertisement, which in turn, boosts profits for the 1%.
Yes. And these protests have been met with mass arrests.
As you might recall, it took a hell of a lot of litigation and fighting to even be allowed to hold a protest of the RNC in 2004; in the end, we were allowed to hold a march, but not a rally -- a concession the city made only days before the protest despite months of planning and applying for permits.
By the way, the official reason why we could not assemble as a political movement? The city was concerned about possible damage to the grass.
This was not a unique problem. The NYPD regularly rounds up people for mass arrests at protests, often without ever pressing charges. The Center for Constitutional Rights speaks of "a pattern of NYPD harassment in which lawful demonstrators are arrested and jailed with the short-term goal of clearing them off the streets and the long-term goal of deterring them and other New Yorkers from participating in future demonstrations." The city has settled several lawsuits for wrongful arrest at protests in recent years (e.g. Kunstler v. City of New York, a $2 million settlement for 52 protesters unlawfully arrested at an anti-war rally in April 2003).
The fact is that our right to assemble has been consistently infringed upon here in NY for years now: a fundamental human right guaranteed by the first amendment to our constitution has been subjected to the whims of the Bloomberg administration. OWS's success in exercising an unrestricted freedom of assembly is a huge victory for New Yorkers and anyone who cares about human rights and the constitution.
So the measure of success for OWS is based on the current system of govt enforcing the first amendment of the constitution and allowing you to voice your opinion? I wonder what the extremists in the organisation, who would rather remove our govt, would say about making such a claim of success.
I don't know what "the measure of success for OWS" is. I know what our goal is: it's to hold Wall Street accountable. And I know that OWS has already accomplished at least one concrete change, contrary to the taunts of the derisive nay-sayers: we have re-established the right of the people to assemble in public and voice our political views. Let the scoffers scoff as they will; we should be proud of this tremendous victory we have won for human rights in America.
That's not the end of the movement, of course. But it is a necessary precondition for organizing as a movement in order to achieve our ultimate goal of holding Wall Street accountable.
we just need to decentralize a little bit, take the power from the federal government and give it to the people and the states. Oh and definitely cut government spending by cutting their pay, they should have a lesson in sacrifice; Congress should not have the power to control the wage.
nods that's right, and there is no instant gratification reward one could reasonably expect in our current system of top down command and control economics and just about everything else.
All I really have to say anymore though is, Let.. The Banks.. Fail....
careful what you wish for ;-)
that's bs. But ok, if that makes you feel accomplished more power to you.
Many people... I mean many refused to go to the Occupy Toronto event after their experience at the G20. So this is a big and important thing.
whatever, if you really think that's some big accomplishment then this movement has no future
It definitely matters. Why is it necessary for them to have accomplished something at this moment? How does that make it a failure now? It doesn't, you just want to focus on things that don't matter to waste peoples time or your mind is too small actually see any kind of bigger picture.
"so what did sitting on a chair help you accomplish?" "we accomplished the action of sitting on the chair."
deep, deep words. almost metaphysical.
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Scoff as you will, but at least understand what you are scoffing at.
What have we accomplished by rallying in Liberty Square? We have re-established the human right to rally in public.
Your parody misses the significance of this by treating the claim as tautological. But it's not; the claim is that the aggregation of bodies in a single place has re-established a human right that has been denied to us for years. If you want to think about the "metaphysical" significance of this, you'd have to talk about not only the move from the particular to the universal, but from reality to the actualization of the ideal. That's hardly tautological; it's an accomplishment to be proud of.
with a bar that low, is really easy to feel proud of just about anything.
Scoff as you will. I take human rights seriously.
It gives us more confidence to participate in politics
Don't pay any attention to this guy. He's like that little kid who keeps asking, Why? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ32BZT9pnk
how is that not been possible? people have been assembling for everything from Gay Marriage to GWB's reelection to the War in Iraq.
Yes. And these protests have been met with mass arrests.
As you might recall, it took a hell of a lot of litigation and fighting to even be allowed to hold a protest of the RNC in 2004; in the end, we were allowed to hold a march, but not a rally -- a concession the city made only days before the protest despite months of planning and applying for permits.
By the way, the official reason why we could not assemble as a political movement? The city was concerned about possible damage to the grass.
This was not a unique problem. The NYPD regularly rounds up people for mass arrests at protests, often without ever pressing charges. The Center for Constitutional Rights speaks of "a pattern of NYPD harassment in which lawful demonstrators are arrested and jailed with the short-term goal of clearing them off the streets and the long-term goal of deterring them and other New Yorkers from participating in future demonstrations." The city has settled several lawsuits for wrongful arrest at protests in recent years (e.g. Kunstler v. City of New York, a $2 million settlement for 52 protesters unlawfully arrested at an anti-war rally in April 2003).
The fact is that our right to assemble has been consistently infringed upon here in NY for years now: a fundamental human right guaranteed by the first amendment to our constitution has been subjected to the whims of the Bloomberg administration. OWS's success in exercising an unrestricted freedom of assembly is a huge victory for New Yorkers and anyone who cares about human rights and the constitution.
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Jon Stewart is part of the 1% off course he's against OWS
Rome wasn't built in a day.
yes, but you're not builders. a bunch of hippies sitting around never got anything done
You need to go to a nearby Occupation this weekend to see that your statement is inaccurate.
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I would like pictures of the body paint. Where can I find?
Getting the message out is the first step to anything!
Wanna know why Obama won back in 08? Look at how much info the man was putting out every day. He did everything like a grassroots movement and had info coming out on just about every little thing out there. Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, YouTube, they would send you text messages, tons of web sites with info. You couldn't blink without hearing about what Obama was doing or talking about that day.
For a first step #OWS has done that, the message is out there and getting out there. The people are hearing it and it's growing every day so no it hasn't failed. However there does need to be a next step.
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Almost all are charged with misdemeanors and those wind up getting dismissed if the person has no previous record & doesn't get rearrested for six months. Won't interfere with the arrestees employability in most cases.
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They had a good time playing the protester game. Hey and they did it for free or almost for free. Free entertainment, what more could you want? ...ohh of course i was forgetting about the "right to assemble", they made a lot of assembles, a lot. Nothing changed but they enjoyed a lot making assembles. I saw a lot of assembles like this in a mental institution. The fools spent a lot of time chatting and after a lot of funny assembles they arrived an agreement, "tomorrow we want a good weather".
They have accomplished proving that USAmericans think only of USAmericans and thier interest. If another has a victory. It is no Victory for USAmericans
That judgment is a little premature.
I wish people would stop being so stupid. OWS ended because the cops were literally killing people, arresting the innocent, conducting chemical attacks, putting war veterans in the hospital and generally pushing people away from their freedom of assembly. OWS ended because the cops ended it. Stop being stupid. OWS only failed in that it never attacked the police back like the protesters in England, Greece and Sweden. That is why OWS ended. Lets not forget that the original NYC group was literally pushed out of their camp. Don't blame OWS, blame yourself for letting the cops step on people.
I think its time for Mother Nature to step in and help this movement by reducing all the greedy and selfish people that are herding us over the cliff.
meatwad has a meatwad for a brain.
meatwad has a meatwad for a brain.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/
Pretty far and pretty big actually. 3 years and no one in finance or government came through on their promises. But 30 days after the start of a public opposition, with no 'results' you're whining?
Really now?
...and it's 'of', not 'or'. Guess public school sucked for you too huh?
We should be focused on one demand: restoring democracy by taking the money out of politics and reforming campaign finance. Here are a couple of ways this could come about: www.lobbydemocracy.com or www.getmoneyout.com We've got a bunch of momentum, it just needs to be channeled in a way that will create a real democracy so that policy issues can be hashed out with the people's participation for generations to come!!!
Of the sincere comments, one group says, "stop seeking instant gratification", one group says, "it's over" and "what next"? One group looks back and feels gratification for what has been done while the other group looks ahead for more to do. Don't just pat your back over the greatest mobilization to date and reject new efforts and methods to expand the movement. What is the limit? We won't find out if we don't try to draw in more people who want to do more. Every tool must be used to advance our cause and the time is now to start organizing voting power. Find your Congressional District here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_congressional_districts Meet up with all you can find in your district and elect two representatives for the National Convention in Philadelphia on July 4, 2011. That alone will give the people in your district two potential Congressional Representatives for the November National elections and draw publicity and votes for the 99ers. People want to do, not watch and wait! It's a peoples movement, so move! Don't ask!
I don't think it has failed. How many conversations have you had about economics in the last month? And many conversations do you USUALLY have about economics in a month. How many people have learned how wealth is ACTUALLY distributed in the US? How many people will as a result greatly scrutinize their politicians, and their campaign ethics? How many people have taken upon themselves to educate themselves about economic issues? I think it's a lot. OWS can do more in the future, and I certainly don't think it has failed.
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Our society is currently not free. I'm not convinced that top 1% (or more like .01%) are EARNING their money in an honest manner.
I posted two ideas: http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-it-possible-to-organize-a-no-work-hour-around-t/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/demand-campaign-contributions-from-corporationswea/ I agree in that the protests, while peaceful and wonderful, have not been taken seriously enough by those in power. I don't want to see any more people get arrested but we need the 1% to realize they can't survive without the other 99%.
Pinky and The Brain Intro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPFSNu_QNs
Geez, give the movement some time. Everyone wants instant gratification now-a-days. Do you think it only took 1-month for the Egyptians to get change.
It has for one thing brought us all together in one place.
As long as we can assemble here we can communicate with one another.
That's big. Remember during world war two it was illegal to have or operate a ham radio.
As long as they don't shut down the internet we can meet right here. We can plan from here, elect leaders from here, post polls from here, administer from here, but at least we all know we have one an others back.
We can disseminate the truth from here, we can make decisions from here instead of relying on mainstream media. We can expose the lies of mainstream media right from here.
So there has been a great deal accomplished. It's just the beginning.
OWS inspired this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHRSLv50PQs
The one change I have noticed is that the things people have been screaming about outside the mainstream media are now in the public eye: Money in Politics, the corruption of our monetary system, the criminal activity of the mega-banks, and the failure of this two-party system we have.
It is too pat, too perfect. The mainstream media – an entirely controlled apparatus in our view – is bringing us all the sound and fury of these civil conflicts from the riots in Europe to the demands of Occupy Wall Street in America to the soundbites of the Modern Technological Messiah, Julian Assange, on the steps of St. Paul’s in Britain. TV, news, even the Internet is ablaze with modern, scripted chaos.
OWS's holding signs and sitting around, sleeping in rainy/cold weather, I think, made a big change.
http://twitter.com/#!/TheNewDeal "We Can't Fight Wall St. Greed While Funding it. Move Your Money Out of the Banks That Crashed This Economy & Join a Credit Union #OWS #p2"
Then today, "280% increase in new accounts for local credit union http://shar.es/bcn5L Get Your Money Out of the Banks That Screwed You #OWS #p2"
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, OMS!
Is there anyone who can introduce me to Progress Credit Union on 33rd, nyc? I really want to close my account with Citibank!
I have been trying to convince my people in Japan to move their money out of major banks since April, but still see no result.
Patience and persistence.
Personally I think a national petition is a good first start, as well as a coordinated letter campaign (ask every supporter of The Occupy Movement to write one-letter a month to their congress representative/senators/and President Obama). That ends up being four letters a month (4 stamps) PER PERSON which is extremely doable and would be a constant reminder to our elected representatives that we are still here, still focused, and still committed to forcing change. Your thoughts?
You are mistaken. This thing is just getting started.
OWS hasn't failed. It has done something incredibly valuable.
It has given us all a way to talk about what is happening to this country. The conversation had been framed and dominated by the 1%. Now "class warfare" and "job creators" accusations are no longer shutting everyone up.
The saying "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." This is more important than some simple concrete result. It won't be fast, and it won't be easy, but change is possible now in a way that it wasn't before OWS.
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/posting.php?mode=edit&f=28&t=256&p=1349
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/posting.php?mode=edit&f=28&t=256&p=1349
According to the organizer,
"Together we can ensure that these banking institutions will always remember the 5th of November!! If the 99% removes our funds from the major banking institutions to non-profit credit unions on or by this date, we will send a clear message to the 1% that conscious consumers won't support companies with unethical business practices.
• Research your local credit union options • Open an account with the one that best suits your needs • Cancel all automatic withdrawals & deposits • Transfer your funds to the new account • Follow your bank's procedures to close your account before 11/05"
http://facebook.com/nov.fifth
Here is what I suggest:
Do not move all of your funds. To put this big of a strain on the system may be irresponsible. Move some of your money out. Just opening an account will send the signal we need.
To find a Credit Union:
http://www.findacreditunion.com/ http://locator.cucentral.com/ http://www.findyourcreditunion.co.uk/
It failed so much NPR is on it:
http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/10/12/occupy-wall-street
This is nonsense. Nothing real is ever accomplished in a month. A MONTH. The length of the media's attention span does not define the pace of history. #OWS did not fail. #OWS has refused to be pacified by false success. We are in this for the long run. We will not go away. We will not be fooled by official appeasement, whatever it's source. We ARE change.
It's a work in progress and given the current political system in which we live, patience remains a virtue. I doubt if anyone realistically expected any kind of major change from our elected officials or the financial community within a month. Now, if we had billions of dollars and had hired a K street lobbying firm, there is probably not enough concrete in the world to demonstrate to you what would have changed.
Beyond looking for something concrete, don't dismiss changes that are taking place at the metaphysical and emotional level. While currently unseen they have a way of breaking on the scene like a tsunami. Critical mass may be achieved later than we would like, but it will be achieved nonetheless.
years
Provocateur alert. Same blather that the American Spectator stooge was typing.
Really, let's do something or go home, this is turning into a weed fest. Everyone I've talked to is unemployed and living with their parents, which is making me think we're the 9.9%. If we aren't willing to make some demands and fight for them, what's the point?
Wiki Occupy Wall Street
http://www.wikioccupywallst.org
United We Stand ! Let's Build it Together ! Yes we are Us . . .
What
Spread the word on the streets. Join the Facebook like page.
Wiki Occupy
http://www.wikioccupy.org
Looking for artist: http://occupywallst.org/forum/artist-wanted/
Correct. Read the constitution. See Article V. Understand it is your first right and it is applied through your state. Go home. Get on the web. Communicate with people that realize there is a way to do it right. Ultimate power, congress has nothing to do with it IF Americans can understand how to meet their needs.
I don't think It "Failed", at least no yet. But unless they do something radical and quick, is going to slowly fade out. Americans don't have the patience for a 6 month sit in.
if you think that you have failed you have. thats ok , just look around and see others that have not quit and get recharged. but if you want to go , go but please hand someone your sighn so they can fight for what you came to defend
The real solution for variety of problems we are facing is abolishing of money. But that is Communism. How are you going to accept it if it was trashed for all your life? And what another choice you have? Everything else will not abolish money and will not solve the "root of all evils" problem. If your do not believe me, good luck with your efforts! Your will go by circles until this movement totally become nonsense and fades away.
OWS has changed the discussion completely. A month ago it was all cuts/debts/plunder social security. It was not just cut or not, it was all about cut and how much.
Today the talk is about fairness. About the 99% that are left behind. About Occupy Wallstreet and an international movement.
If that's not ground to celebrate after 1 month then I don't know what is.
OWS is working. It is already CHANGING SOCIETY as we speak!
Don't expect concrete changes over night. Change needs to grow organically from a movement. Let's keep building the movement and I bet we all will be surprised just HOW MUCH CHANGE we all can bring!
next:
Here's how we can easily Reform Wall Street: Take away their powers "once again." And a Million People March to Capitol Hill will help get it done!
For example, "We are here Congress because we want you to REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which helped saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing investment companies, banks, and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of just being Banks and Insurance companies--Congress why can't you learn a history lesson from 1929? Btw, why did most of you vote for its final repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act (2nd story here)
Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with lawmakers like Senator Phil Gramm who helped create legal gambling casinos for our banks: CNN's The Ten Most Responsible for Economy Collapse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related
Furthermore, we also want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and consequently allowed for such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 250 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right thing, or you're part of the 1%."
So why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole. Former head of U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission speaks to Congress on the high price of oil--and he's not happy about energy deregulations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related
Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the shattering of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw
Let's get focused and bring back Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right in 1933, we don't need to REINVENT the wheel because bringing this Act back will help create an even playing field once again....and let's finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge what they wanted for energy; they went to jail for this; but no one closed the loophole, why? Re-election Monies from the banks and oil companies! The writing is on the wall.
Oh woe is me, nothing was accomplish by this one event. What moron comes up this this sort of inane shit. The OWS movement is only at its inception, this is noting more than the first spark of something much bigger. so all you cynics and trolls, and paid shills for the corporatocracy, go fuck your selves your nonsense is transparent
Failed? It has just started. Fear is already causing a wedge between democrats and wall street. The street and the Republicans are trying to team up and make the Democrats the demons. They can not understand that people have a voice so they need a target and pushing the dems out of the ol'boys club is the first step of slowly pulling the cash from our elected officials... great work and never let up. Business fears theirs own weaknesses, keep poking the nerve.
Personally I think a national petition is a good first start, as well as a coordinated letter campaign (ask every supporter of The Occupy Movement to write one-letter a month to their congress representative/senators/and President Obama). That ends up being four letters a month (4 stamps) PER PERSON which is extremely doable and would be a constant reminder to our elected representatives that we are still here, still focused, and still committed to forcing change. Your thoughts?
You totally have missed the point of OWS.
Ocuppy. Do. Not. Go. Home.
And I don't see what you think could be achieved within a month.
In Egypt peaceful protesters forced the resignation of Mubarak - a dictator - after a few weeks, after 100s died and thousands were injured. And still they haven't managed to to get elections from the interim military(dictatorship).
The whole point of all of this is to start and maintain an ongoing movement for change - many changes - and for a new democratic/economic process to emerge that upholds the will of at least 99% of the population.
It will fail if it gets what it wants at the snap of a finger and suddenly everyone can go home.
Hahahahahah please, inform yourself a little bit before writing. In egypt there was a CIA puppet as dictator and now they have directly a CIA agent as dictator. By the way, the guy that rules now is a known torturer, he worked for Mubarack and he was the chief of the army. Are you sure all what happened in Egypt it was made by the "protesters"?
As was pointed out on several news outlet, the mere fact that the discourse has changed from "Deficit to Jobs" is a major win. So instead of trying to defuse join in or shut up.
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Too big to fail.
At some point, yes go big or go home will have to happen. However, they are not just sitting around and singing. They are educating people and that is really important. If it takes another four weeks or two years it doesn't matter.
Failure is the stepping stone to success my friend !
I was pretty shocked when OWS did not even say diddles in solidarity for another, Libya had a great victory today. The whole world spoke about it. OWS voice was noticeably missing.
Hahahahah, i can't believe how much naivety i see here. Libya have one of the best and bigger oil fields in the world, that's all. This is the one and only reason there are some countries helping opponents to overthrow the dictator Gadafi, some important corporations like repsol YPF just want to protect their investments in oil. Please, inform yourself better before post next time.
You say "They want to safe their inversions in oil" and tell others to inform themselves better before they post? Really? What does "safe their inversions in oil" mean?
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The point is to look like you know what you are talking about before telling others that they do not. Kind of like misspelling idiot when calling someone an idiot. Kind of a posting foul.
You are trying to say if i don't write correctly in English because isn't my native language I'm an idiot? How nice are you. Other than trying to insult me, do you have something to say about Libya?
I did not say that at all. I'm saying that if you want to tell someone to inform themselves better, you should sound like you are well informed while doing it. Otherwise it reflects badly upon you. I never called you an idiot. I don't know you. You could be an idiot or a genius for all I know. I was just responding to your post where you called someone out for not being better informed and sounding uninformed while doing so.
Nice to see you cut the aggression level of your words. So now i'm "sounding uninformed", can i ask you why? is because the English isn't my native language? Do you know which language speak the people in Libya? Again, do you have something to say about Libya or you are just trying to use the ad-hominem strategy?
All I was saying is that you accused others of being uninformed yet you were saying gibberish while doing so. How do you know that the person you called uninformed isn't using English as a second language? Do not cast stones.
Is incredible how you can be able to say the same with other words and pretend you are saying something different. Sorry but I'm not so stupid. By the way, for the third time, do you have something to say about Libya or you are just trying to use the ad-hominem strategy?
OWS has created an evolutionary, rather than revolutionary process, through which the outcasts of society have found a common interest in mitigating Corporate Corruption and eliminating Wall Street criminality. The elite has responded by hiring more security guards, to hide behind and they are scrambling behind closed doors, wondering what this movement will turn into. This movement has imposed uncertainly, on an elite that has grown accustomed to pulling all the strings, in back rooms. Uncertainly, is a big accomplishment. Wall Street has an imponderable and unlike the wars, the manipulation of the NY Mercantile Exchange or the political theater of the US Congress, this movement has created real uncertainly, beyond the control or reach of Goldmann Sachs. That the future of OWS and what it will be or do is legitimately unceratin and beyond the control of the elite is a big victory for OWS. The elite can't effectively plan against the unknown.
your just dreaming.
lol I am an highly educated man, with a sophisticated understanding of strategic planning, professional credentials in international business and I grew up around the political and financial elite of this country. I am currenlty in contact with a former CEO of a Fortune 500 company. I know the family members of a US Senator and a member of the House of Representatives. I am not a hippie daydreamer. Everything I wrote is true. Uncertaintly is power. You can't just but your sights on uncertainly and gun it down, Meatwad. [Wink]
I'm the queen of England and you are lying.
This is a repost of something I already wrote, but it sums things up, if it is a bit short on details. I am not going to write out a hundred page explanation, going through my entire reasoning, after all. lol
Consider that our Government will only really entertain lawful, reasonable, actionable requests, that will legitimately advance a constructive National interest or economic concern. They will also want to balance some things. For one thing, the political elite will want to ensure that there is little in the way of change in the make up of the political elite. Now what really drives the protest movements interest in the power inequality? It is the stark, substantial and utter scarcity of career opportunities and the scarcity of resources. Now, is the US Government really going to let Wall Street and Corporate America destroy the USA, to make a quick buck and to turn China into a Super Power? No. Will the Government,as the protest movement grows, just mow everyone down and ensure that we have a brain drain? Will they mow the protestors down and ensure and that no one around the World moves to a sick-o country that would shoot its population? No. Will the US Government just let this movement continue to create mass ambiguity, as to the impact of it and its potential avenues of evolution? No.
In all likelihood, the US Government will realize that this is really not about power inequality, this is about people perceiving power inequality, in a time of tremendous scarcity. The Government will move to take action and will, through a combination of public and private initiatives, start to put to work, the two most highly educated and or skilled generations, this country has produced, in her entire history. The ideas of the movement will be reduced to but the minimum necessary to restore confidence and get people happy again. When will this happen?
Once the critical point is reached and the people are stirred up enough, the protest is big enough and angry enough, there will be massive investment in diverse commercial enterprise development and there will be high paying career creation. This Nation is not Egypt, not the Soviet Union and not the British Empire. This is the USA and we still have everything we need to be a domesticated, happy Super Power. This is ultimately what the US Government will pursue and what will emerge; a happy Super Power. We will be a Super Power that is finally, truly, a part of a Global economy, not merely torn apart by a Global economy.
I am afraid that you are sadly mistaken about me. I am not lying about my background and it is quite silly for you to suggest otherwise, since you are not in a position to know everything about me, you would need to know, to come to any determination about my background, if that is what you are doing. Now if you are referring to the value of ambiguity, consider what may happen to the financial markets, as this movement grows and the elite is scrambling to buy a private army, to protect themselves from the Zombie hippie horde or whatever nebulous threat these rather silly types can imagine? [giggle] Anyway, your troll attack on me, your making a statement in reckless disregard as to whether or not it is true, suggesting that I am lying, does not establish any credibly for you and does your cause, whatever that might be, no credit. Please try to make a well reasoned argument, rather than troll. Thank you for your consideration of my request. Best Regards, MJ
You pretend not to be a liar troll just writing a lot and calling me troll?
I am a highly educated MBA, a preppie, an Ivy League type, a self interested Capitalist. I make no false pretenses. I aim to advance my self interest, through the advancement of our National interest. It just so happens that the interests of teachers, unions, politicians, out of work highly educated Americans and yes, MJ Morrow are all lining up in a row. I can advance my own selfish needs through the advancement of others. I do not fear your accusations root, for I am exactly what I claim to be. Your silly cat calls mean nothing.
The queen of England say you are not so educated as you pretend to be. Repeating yourself doesn't mean you don't lie.
I am sure some of my former Italian language professors would tend to agree with you! [rolling on the floor, having a good hoot] I did not make misrepresentations about my education. In any event, I am done feeding your troll, so hail to the Queen and have a good day. [smile] MJ
You haven't been on top of things if you think they haven't changed anything. I just feel like we need more of a healthy spectacle to get attention and to keep that up as we continue.
You haven't seen anything YET, for we will start the war against Injustice by starting our own banks to double the income of the Bottom 99% of Workers. Why? Because many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 1% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves, and thus doubling our income from Bank Profits which are 40% of all Corporate Profits; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo
Join http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/ because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Online Congress, and related “new” Businesses, REPLACING the "old" Congress, and related “old” Businesses, according to your current Occupations & Generations, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet, a political opportunist, just like today; what's important is the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing Power & Group Investment Power. In this, sequence is key, and if the correct technical (or mathematical) sequence is followed then it results in doubling the income of the Bottom 99% of Workers from today's Bank Profits, which are 40% of all Corporate Profits.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 1% Management System of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupations & Generations.
So JOIN the 2nd link, and spread the word, so we can make 100,000 support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.
spidey wrote: please name 1 concrete change accomplished by OWS ? END-----
That is the kind of question an nwo infiltrator would ask to try and diminish using human beings in using their instincts to effect civil government and enhance survival.
you're way to paranoid, Take your meds.
The OWS movement represents the 99% - Study
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=176
An #OccupyWallStreet Companion Forum
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/
I suggest going home. :)
Your time line is way off. You don't get things accomplished that fast. We got their attention. But, I think the direction is wrong. First, we need to boil the essence of our complaint down to four or five items. A long list including things like animal rights is, I am sorry to say, laughable (and it has nothing to do with whether I support it or not). This is where the majority gets led astray by going along with people who have their own personal agenda. Before you know it, the demands will be so many that the process will be mocked.
I suggest Four Reforms to focus on and then see if we can distill it down to even less.
1) Reform Wall Street and Banks 2) Reform Tax System (includes Job Creation Bill) 3) Reform Electoral Process 4) Reform Congressional Legislative process
Even better if we focus on first two. That is plenty to take on. The Movement if it continues can move to influence legislators if it becomes strong enough. Other option is to go in direction of 3rd Party. But all this requires an Organization with local and regional chapters. 5) Jobs Creation Bill
Just taking on one would be plenty, I'm not here to diminish or mock this movement. My reaction was the same as many others, not only here in the US, but around the world. IT'S ABOUT TIME. That said, I personally would like to here clear goals, priorities, and by what means the are to be accomplished.
Great, i see a lot of people struggling to make ..."reforms"?, sure...[/ironic]
I generally can out-cynic anyone but this Change does not come easy. And if you want to do something, you need to say, okay, hypothetically, what might we do. I have organized many events, fundraisers and been in charge of campaigns...small though they might be compared to what this "movement" is trying to accomplish. At some point, people need to get practical and organize. It is really easy to "diss" everybody, believe me, I have done it myself. But, the journey of a thousands miles, begins with a single step as the chinese saying goes. Or to quote Ringo Star: You know it don't come easy. Don't know who you are or your age but if you have never done any organizing before, you might want to try to organize something (a one-day flash mob concept, a fundraiser, feeding people, or any one of a hundred different things). It would give you an idea of what is involved. The kind of massive reform that the Movement people want is dependent on very deep organization OR such a massive nationwide protest with some continuity to it that the Powers that Be feel so threatened that they do something out of real fear but that does not happen often. Check out Progressive Party Platform of 1912 to get an idea of a Third Party that really made a difference. It was a hundred years ago but they were really cool. The 100 year anniversary is upcoming and maybe we can begin a New Progressive Party by breaking away from this OWS with a group of more serious-minded people.
Yeah yeah, I've heard this story thousands of times. Is the same old story of always "we must start giving small steps" and finally when some steps come you discover the steps itself was the objective and the original objective is forgotten in the way. The entire system must be replaced, can't be reformed, you must understand this. If you don't understand this this system can't be reformed you must understand at least one thing, you and all the others "reformers" are not going to deceive the people again, not again.
Yeah, and you, I suppose are an armchair revolutionary who talks big and does nothing, right? What is your revolutionary proposal that will overthrow the system. This must be really original and I am waiting to hear all about it.
There are thousands of things you can do to replace this system and none of them is "revolutionary", is simply work to build another system. I'll give you only 3 examples: http://opensourceecology.org/ http://theurbanfarmingguys.com/ http://www.globalbuckets.org/
I agree with 95% of what I read here, What took America so long to realize we are in a class war and are being screwed badly?
I watched part of the Republican presidential debate. Buggs Bunny was debating Roger Rabbit on the price of carrots while the forest burned! Nothing made any economic sense. Pres Obama is out pushing a jobs bill that will be at best be marginally effective and it took him 3 years to decide we had a jobs problem. It's an obvious political stunt!
You have given this country a chance. Don't let the fire and passion burn out. Make demands now while someone is listening. There is no guarantee this will be around 6 months from now. The first demand and by far the most important has to be to get the money completely out of politics because nothing will get done if the politicians are beholden to their Corporate donors.
Your power is in publicity. You need attention. That is your fuel. You need to get more people involved, The teabaggers got a million to show up. You need to embrace the science of public relations & hire real professional to sell your message. The teabaggers got where they are because they had professionals funded by big money, Being right isn't enough if you can't get enough people to listen and take you seriously, You need a polished spokesperson, some 18 year old kid though sincere comes across confused with broken English is only going to loose you respect.
Lastly understand you are taking on arguably the most powerful bunch of people on the planet. They are not going to simply give away that power because you asked and it's the right thing to do. You are in the early stages of a real fight. You need leverage. Read about Gandhi and Martin Luther King. There is a science and method to passive resistance.
Maybe a bit over-dramatic but this movement may be the last chance this country has to be great again.
Good Luck
Be Patient, there's a lot of people down there. Give yourselves time. A month sounds like a long time. Its not. Not when your talking about thousands and thousands of people. Give it time. (But don't just dally) Thats the democratic process happening down there and requires forbearance, timing, discipline, and self-control. Enjoy yourselves and laugh while you wait. Knowing what you are waiting for. Without expectation of reward. Simply for the sake of impeccability.
OWS got the attention focused on Wall Street. OWS is getting the conversation changed from deficit reduction to income inequality.
yeah, for a couple weeks.
If occupy wall steet doesn't represent you in their claimed 99%, sign here.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ows99percent/
If occupy wall steet doesn't represent you in their claimed 99%, sign here.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ows99percent/
If occupy wall steet doesn't represent you in their claimed 99%, sign here.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ows99percent/
It will take many years. Change doesn't just happen.
The movement will get over the misinformation and figure out that Article V is the way to see demands met.
We need an Article V convention.
Congress is very afraid of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."
Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
OWS has brought awareness to the problem. Now it's time to take the next step and form a real organization, with strong leadership, that can advocate for change.
Hahahahah strong leadership? who is the leader? you? hahahahahha
No, I'm not. I'm asking for someone to step up. Someone started this whole thing, where are they now and why don't they take this to the next level?
And what's so funny about strong leadership? Show me an organization or business that has moved forward and achieved anything without leadership. Staying free form and all over the place will result in failure.
Show me a "leader" that don't abuse of his power and I'll tell you what's so funny about "leadership". Then show me an organization or business that has achieved anything with leadership and tell me exactly which is the reason why this couldn't be achieved without leaders.
There are plenty who don't abuse power. You've never worked for a boss that was on the up and up?
Show me a cause, whether it's the civil rights movement, or suffragan, or even the independence of this nation, that succeeded with out strong leadership. No cause that has ever succeeded did so without strong leadership. Please find me one that did. By the way, the birth of this nation just might be the perfect example of a leader who could gave abused his power, but did the exact opposite. George Washington.
I see you can't show even 1. Althought George Washington was very concerned about the abuse of power he abused of his power several times, this is one example http://eforum.reviewjournal.com/lv/showthread.php?t=41020
In a world of Kings, he set the tone for what a president should be, and when they tried to make him a king he refused and walked away, abdicating all his power in the process. Nothing like that had ever been seen up to that point. He set the tone. Learn your History.
and by the way, you still haven't come up with a single effort that has succeeded with out leadership. Apartheid maybe? India throwing out the English? Maybe the liberation of South America? The end of slavery perhaps? Mandela, Gandhi, Simon Bolivar, etc... Common, show me one that worked and achieved it's goals without some form of leadership. You can't. Why? Because it's never worked. Leaderless movements drift aimlessly until they die.
You failed showing a leader that doesn't abused of his power, that's all i need to know about leaders.
Okay, then lets go leaderless everywhere, at work, in government, with parenting, no leaders, no leadership. Yeah, that will would work out great. Oh no it won't, because in a vacuum leaders emerge. You make no sense.
"in a vacuum leaders emerge"????? WTF??? YOU make no sense
Leadership makes sense. I don't know why there is so much dissension on this.
Our Founding Fathers created the office of President to be our leader, with limited powers of course. And I think our Founding Fathers got it right. The problem is not the fact that we have a government and a leader. The problem is that we let money seep, then flood, into the politcal process.
Okay, follow me on this. If you have a group, and something needs to get done, then leaders will emerge. I promise you that is the case. Trust me, my background and education has to do with human behavior. I'm not pulling a education card here, but this is right in my wheel house.
Trust me, in all things, leaders emerge, or things don't get done. It's Human behavior.
Your comedy about Nobel prize isn't even funny. You just have to search a little bit on internet, for example http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Course_Pages/legal_systems_very_different_10/final_papers_04/benitendi_sebei_04.html ohhh, a "Cultural Anthropologist", I'm impressed. I'm curious about which amount of shit have put the "education" system in your brain. Is a pity we can't see it with some kind of machine to "explore brains".
"If you have a group, and something needs to get done, then leaders will emerge" <-- false Leadership is cultural and there are cultures without leadership. Your wrong assumptions are just fruit of your ignorance and your ethnocentrism.
Yes, a cultural anthropologist, so unless, you are one, yes, I know a hell of a lot more about this subject than you do, and googling some obscure report that you think serves as evidence doesn't mean you actually know something about the subject. As I stated before, once you break down into smaller groups, there is something call situational leadership, and that's where, if someone wants to build a house, then someone requests help and leads the effort and once the house is built, then everything goes back to normal. Why, because you can't build something, or do something, if someone is not leading it. I can't even believe you can't grasp this concept. It's mind boggling, that this simple concept somehow eludes you.
Now, you my think that this movement is leaderless, but someone came up with the idea, and thought it was a good idea to protest in downtown Manhattan. Or did several thousand people just have a single collective thought, and for reasons that they cannot explain just started mingling in that park. Someone has to initiate, someone has to lead.
Listen I have to give up on you, because you are insane.
By the way, how well is that tribe doing. I'm sure their economy is just humming along.
Hey root, like I said, for some reason I can't respond to your post, so I'm not sure if you'll see this. As for your statement about ignorance and ethnocentrism, I'm a Cultural Anthropologist, so if there's one thing I know, it's culture and people. I'm not wrong, even with hunter gatherers, a seemingly leaderless group, there is something that pops up called situational leadership, where by if a task needs to get done, someone takes control.
I will state again, there is no such thing as a society without leaders. Please, please, please provide me with the name of the culture, society, group, people, that operates with no leadership at all, and I promise I will thank you when I accept my Nobel Prize, after I've shocked the very foundation of modern Anthropology, by uncovering this elusive, yet discovered group.
I agree with you Indepat.
Raising of consciousness.
Its about time we go official and public. With something. My vote is for ending political corruption/campaign reform.
There's enough people that get this. We need to move beyond and take this to the next level. New people are hesitant because there is noise of Socialism. Nothing against the Socialists out there, you've freely expressed your opinions. But the fact is, I do not think there is consensus for this. Or many of the other topics of chatter out there.
We need to go official and public to breakthrough to the next level of supporters. We may lose some, but we will gain much more.
Well at least some people are trying to do something instead of just sitting around complaining. Thank you OWS for your voices!
There is people doing things way more useful than just sitting in liberty plaza complaining, take a look to just an example http://theurbanfarmingguys.com/
Well at least some people are trying to do something instead of just sitting around complaining. Thank you OWS for your voices!
trying is not the same as accomplishing something.
You have to better go direct in front of rich people, make riots there so that people will pay attention, putting in a huge ridiculious situtation they will be even afraid.
It has accomplished something... enough moms and dads basements have been redecorated so that the kids have no place to go home too.LOL This was all a plot to get the kids out of their parent's houses, by their parents.
Gov. Failed. Now What?
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agreed
All the way, of course.
We're not playing stock market lottery here. Success actually takes time and effort.
These guys either don't get it or they are trolls... To have demands is not where this movement is at right now. "Demands" only serve to legitimize the system; the very system we are fighting against...
Go big, but in a small way. We did it.
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=348
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Republic-of-Olancho/149833091753264
www.republicofolancho.com
We are not OWS.
We are the Dirt Bagger Party. Unite.
Don't fall for this psychological crap from any one percent goon. It's an obvious attempt to discredit our cause and break our will. Don't fall for it. Just follow the law and keep protesting no matter what the one percent goons say or do. Our message is vital. Below is my two cents:
We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid ’07′ however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic politicali manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitationi workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won’t. Not by a longshot. Jobs don’t necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The ‘free market’ just doesn’t cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of ’08′ the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of ’08′, every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job creation. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation’s wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job creation, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don’t. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent already own nearly 1/2 of all United States wealth. More than double their share before Reagan took office. Still, they want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
spam
I think the problem has been beaten to death several times over. I recommend posting constructive input on how best to remedy it. Who knows maybe the 1% might even agree with the right solutions.
If and when I see real evidence that the richest one percent are trying to be reasonable, I will tone it down. I don't want a war anymore than you do.
Doesn't Warren Buffet count?
no, he's just playing on both sides, spreading his bets around
Hell no. He is the king trying to make like he is down with the rest of us. It's nothing but PR crap.
unfortunately, that PR crap usually works.
Dude, how many times are you going to post that? I'm getting tired of ignoring it and scrolling down to the next comment
Tell you what. If you can somehow prove that no one has read this in the last 24 hours and guarantee that no one will read this in the next 24, I'll stop posting.
Maybe 1% of the people here will read it. I'm a proud member of the 99%!
Might I suggest... paragraphs?
new OWS demand paragraphs